Conference vmszoo::rc

        Re:< Note 428.0 by WRASSE::FRIEDRICHS "Jeff Friedrichs 381-1116" >

                I would  strongly  recommend  going  4  channel  for  the
        following reasons:
        
                Everybody needs a  simple  plane.  We all have days where
        our nerves are frayed for some reason or other and the best thing
        it to take a simple plane up there and just putter around  to get
        relaxed.   You only need more than 4 channels for craft that have
        flaps, retracts etc.  These are not right for put-put'ing around.
        
                It's  a  bad  idea  to  have  many  planes  on  a  single
        transmitter.  If your frequency is busy, you are  dead.  A flight
        back  is  only  marginally cheaper than the complete package with
        transmitter.
        
                I normally  take 3 planes to the field.  All on different
        frequencies. My radios are 4, 5 and 7 channels.
        
        Anker

    I'm the cub Jeff referred to --- competent in engineering in general
    including [military] avionics, but an absolute novice in modeling RC.
    I used to be a pilot, but Jeff says that's a handicap. 

Comments on Anker's response (and I do appreciate such responses):

>>  Everybody needs a  simple  plane.  ... only need ... 4 channels 

    I agree that only a few channels are needed during early learning.
    There does seem to be some disagreement in these notes as to 3 or 4
    channels, but Jeff will be my instructor, so the initial plane will be
    a PT-40 using 3 channels.  Even if the decision is for seven channel
    electronics, the old favorite (i.e. only) *plane* will be simple.
     
    Now, am I missing something?  I assume that extra electronics can be
    ignored.  Is it a problem to have these extra functions latent in the
    equipment? 

>>  to  have  many  planes  on  a  single  transmitter.  ..... 
>>  A flight pack is only marginally cheaper than the complete package 

    Valid points.  Hmmmmn.

    Re: .-1,
    
    My advice has always been to buy all the radio you can afford up-front.
    Be assured that you "will" want to go to full-house (4-functions)
    one day so a minimum of 4-channels should be purchased.  If you
    start out with a 3-ch. rig and then want to add ailerons, yer' faced
    with having to dispose of the 3-ch. radio (and, believe me, you
    can't get anything for it) and "then" buy at least a 4-ch. rig.
    
    Why not save the [wasted] extra expense and start with a minimum 4-ch.
    rig at the outset?  If you don't anticipate "ever" needing 7-channels,
    I'd still recommend going for a 5-channel set as you "may" want to
    experiment with some added function/dimension once you have learned
    to fly like flaps, retracts, bomb or parachute drop, aerial
    photography, etc, ad infinitum.  If nothing else, the multi-function
    radios (5-channels and up) tend to hold much better resale value.
    
    It's up to you but I believe you'll be well advised to buy at least
    a 4-ch. and, preferrably, a 5-ch. radio right off the bat.  You
    are correct in the assumption that using less that the available
    number of channels causes no problems whatsoever.
    
    Adios,	Al

    I used to be one who preached that one should learn on three channels
    and then transition to four channel ships. I always said to buy
    no less than a four channel rig. Within the last year I've changed
    my opinion of three versus four channel ships. I think that you
    should learn on four channels. Learn what each control function
    should do in the first place.
    If this still hasn't convinced you to learn on four channels then
    one other suggestion. Build the ship with ailerons and lock the
    ailerons down in a neutral position. Then set the ship up as a three
    channel ship and try it. This way you can go to four channels if
    you so choose without building that second wing.
    
    
    						Tom

    Following up on a point made by Anker in note 428.1, I've done some
    homework on prices, sizes, etc. of Futaba gear.  In particular, the
    homework is applicable to Futaba pattern systems of at least 4 channels
    and costing less than $200 (mail-order) with NiCd's. 

    This data is probably old hat to most readers of this conference, but I
    include it for the benefit of other beginners and for critical comments
    by the savvy. 

    Within this domain Futaba has two product lines, two modulations, and
    four possible sets of control channels.  The domain excludes the eight
    channel systems, the helicopter systems, and those with PCM modulation. 

    It does include the low cost "L" product line and the mid-range "G"
    line.  The only advantage of the "L" line is the inclusion of their
    bottom-priced package, a four channel system with three servos.  If the
    "L" systems are upgraded to four servos and NiCd's, the price
    differential pretty much disappears, so the data below is mostly for
    the "G" series.  The "G" systems also have provisions for trainer
    cords. 

    The avionics of the Futaba standard packages are based on four
    receivers and two servos.  Actually, the servos may be identical except
    for the connectors.  For reasons not obvious, the FM systems use a
    different connector between receiver and servo than the AM systems.
    Since Futaba sells adapter cables, this would seem to have been a
    technical mistake now perpetuated for compatibility and/or marketing
    reasons.  The data below is based on packages with four S48 or S148
    servos. 

    The four receivers are the AM receivers, the R4F (used in that entry
    system), the R4H (that might be a nice glider item with much less
    weight than the other receivers), and the R7H (used for over four
    channels in for both product lines) and the FM receiver, the R107N.
    The dimensions and weights of these receivers are: 

	R4F	AM	1.56 x 2.27 x 0.75	1.6 oz

	R4H	AM	1.24 x 2.00 x 0.75	1.0 oz

	R7H	AM	1.56 x 2.68 x 0.78	1.9 oz

	R107N	FM	1.37 x 2.44 x 0.81	1.4 oz

    In the eyes of a novice, these dimensions are all close to one another.
    The weight differences might be significant if the battery weights are
    comparable.  Except for that, I conclude that there are no significant
    mechanical factors on which to base a choice of avionics. 

    From the current Tower bi-monthly flier, we have the following system
    prices: 

      "G" AM systems without dual rates:

	4FG	$145	(price from annual catalog and probably high)

    	6FG/AM	$160	(  "     "    "       "     "     "      "  )

      "G" AM systems with dual rates on at least two channels:

	5FGK/AM	$165

	6FGK/AM	$170

	7FGK/AM	$185

      "G" FM systems with dual rates on at least two channels:

	5FGK/FM	$177

	6FGK/FM	$185

	7FGK/FM	$200


	6NLK/AM	$180	"L" system but with NiCd's, no trainer 

    The seven channel systems have a few features lacking in the others:
    three channels with dual rates instead of only two, mixing on two
    channels, and something called ATV, whatever that is, on three. 

    One of the possibilities that had been considered was to buy first a
    complete system then to buy only the avionics for the next plane.  That
    is not a winner.  From Tower the add-on or replacement receivers cost
    $69 for a four channel (don't know which), $94 for an AM seven, and
    $110 for the FM seven.  The servos implicit above are $19 each, so four
    channels (implemented) plus receiver will amount to $145, $170, or
    $186, depending upon the configuration --- and that doesn't include the
    NiCd's, servo trays, etc.  It is actually less expensive to buy the
    complete system and discard the transmitter if so inclined.