Conference vmszoo::rc

	
		Funny you should mention Jeeps,or should I say 
	the Jeep cos there was only the one...Anyway I've managed
	to get hold of various bits of info,there's a copy of the
	article that went with the plan I'm building,and some stuff
	from a Scale Modeller magazine that includes a 1/64 and a 
	1/32 plan plus marking/colo(u)r info... Haven't been able to
	get hold of any real colo(u)r pictures tho.

			Let me know your mailstop and I'll slip it
	through the copier...




	Bob

It (The Jeep) flew.  The first hop it was no sooner up when the engine died and
I dead sticked it in.  Over shot the runway and nosed over in the
snow - but no damage.  The second hop we started to trim it out and tried
hard to take some in flight pictures.  I was doing a low slow camera pass
and then turned to port.  Shortly after that I stalled the starboard wing
tip from about 30 ft up and it landed on the port wing and nose and bounced
16 ft (we measured) and landed facing me.  There was little noticeable
damage.  You wouldn't believe how high it bounced into the air off it's nose.
The reason it survived was do in large part to the Al Casey method of Fiberglas
coating of the fuz.  I got to say I was never in a state of relaxation
during the flights.  I had the elevator trim all the way up and still had
to hold in up during the whole flight.  I didn't have any dual rates on
or the exponentials on for fear that I wouldn't have enough throw during
the test hop.  I wanted to have an expert take it up the first time but
I chanced it myself and I'm glad.  I suppose that I should change the
incidence angle of the wing or horizontal stab so that you don't need so much
up elevator dialed in but the horizontal stab is really Fiberglassed in
and if I changed the main wing I would be in for some serious redecorating.
The plans did not specify any angles so it is what it is.

On another note - if your thinking about buying a new radio I strongly suggest 
that you get whatever your flying partner or instructor has if it is one that
takes a trainer cord.  This weekend Kevin Ladd and myself had two Futabas
with a trainer cord and had a ball.  We sat on two lawn chairs and would take
turns flying first his plane then my plane thru a full tank of fuel.  While
airborne we would swap control back and forth at regular intervals.  This 
allowed us to fly twice as long (cause we doubled our battery life by only
keeping one plane in the air at a time) and we would practice specific
maneuvers.  Great fun and makes the trainer cord worth it's weight in 
"Futaba Gold".

It started with a trip uptown to the local hobby shop.  I choose a Falcon 56
from several suggested trainers but my dream baby was this Art Chester Jeep. I
figured if I was a Blue Angel I would start with the Jeep but as my mama used
to say - be patient.  So I suffered thru the Falcon 56, a P51 Mustang (fun
scale - nothing like the "Candy Man" racer), a Das Bipe Stick, a Black Baron
Special, a Cessna 182, and a Wingmaster ultralight.  All the while building
these other planes I thought I was working for the man in the hobby shop to be
good enough to get the Jeep.  In dreams I would see the crowd gather as my Jeep
broke ground and was born on the wind. 

At last I got the Kit.  Even the pretty paper plans were treated with the
utmost care being fastened to two work benches in two houses over several
months.  I was trying to think of an appropriate name like "Lana" or "Leah",
after all Al Casey has his "Yeller Peril".  But "The Jeep" seems quite
appropriate.  I even obtained the original comic strip introduction of "The
Jeep" in the Popeye series.  That's where Art Chester got the name in the first
place. 

Well its over.  All because of not keeping and religiously following a check
list.  We took the Jeep to the Orange Airport yesterday and launched my love
star for it's third and last flight. 

Things started fairly normal with some hectic trimming but soon we settled down
and made a couple of camera passes.  It was pretty fast and we lost it in the
mist a couple of times.  I was running scared and afraid I was going to drop it
into an evergreen.  But we calmed down and Kevin tried a couple of controlled
stalls at high altitude.  I did a loop - OK.  I tried a roll to starboard -
nice - now to port - nice.  Now overhead I pull two tight loops and "POW" my
Indian wedding was over and my Jeep was falling like a duck shot over the blue
bayou.  Twenty feet away from us on the tar "POW" - millions of pieces. Only
the lonely half of a wing was still in the air.  Quick I put down the
transmitter and grab the camera and still have time to squeeze off several
shots of the falling wing.  Remember - What'd I say about a check list.  I
forgot to put the wing struts on.  At home about the only thing left on my
normally cluttered work bench is two wing struts and six bolts - gad!  I'm not
crying over spilt milk but on the way to work today I blasted "Mean Woman
Blues" as loud as it would go.  My OS40-FP was busted in half. Miraculously the
radio survived.  But the rest - What a pile of dust! 

So the moral of the story is (1) Maintain and use check lists and (2) the wing
struts on Jeeps are functional. 

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

P.S.  Can you find all the Roy Orbison songs in the Jeep's obituary above?

    Kay,
    
    Gawd!! I went back and re-read 96.4 and found a whole gob more of
    Orbison's song titles:
    
    	UPTOWN
    	DREAM BABY
    	BLUE ANGEL
    	MAMA
    	CANDY MAN
    	IN DREAMS
    	THE CROWD
    	PRETTY PAPER
    	CRYING
    
    Now, how many "more" have I missed?  You must be a "real" Orbison
    fan to be familiar with so many titles...if so, we "definitely"
    have that in common as I've loved Roy's music since day-1 and becoming
    personally acquainted with him has been "the" high point of my life
    to date.
    
    Adios amigo,	Al

    Kay,
    
    Add "I'M HURTIN'" to the list.	Al

>    How'd I do?

Al - by my count you got 21 out of 24.

But I gotta admit I cheated and used two album covers.

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

>    	INDIAN WEDDING (?? never heard this one, if it "is" one)

There once was an Indian brave - name of Yellow Man.
He fell in love with a maid - known as White Sand.
He vowed his love would last forever more.
Then came the day that he had waited for.
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
etc...

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    "Still" never heard "Indian Wedding"....must've been a little- 
    played B-side.  Which 3 did I miss??????????
    
    Adios,	Al

    OK, I found "FALLING" (twice) but what are the other 2 I missed?
    I'd take a SWAG that they might be "BORNE ON THE WIND" and, maybe,
    "REMEMBER" though I can't admit to ever hearing these 2 either?
    Right/wrong???????
    
    BTW, since writing my original response, I've found 2 of the 3 titles
    I planted in it in yer' original note...can you find the 3rd one???
    
    A little off the subject but lotsa' fun...adios,	Al

>    I'd take a SWAG that they might be "BORNE ON THE WIND" and, maybe,
>    "REMEMBER" though I can't admit to ever hearing these 2 either?
>    Right/wrong???????
    
Borne on the wind is right.
Remember is wrong.

What you missed is...

"What'd I Say"

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

...
>    BTW, there are some more Orbison titles hidden in "my" response...
>    can you find `em?
>    
>    Adios and, again, my condolences, amigo,	Al

Found "I'm hurtin'" and "Falling".
Just guessing but it seems like "Ride away free" didn't fit the sentence
you put it in too well - tho if it is a song - I can't remember it.
Hum a few bytes of ASCII :-)

This is great fun - but I miss my Jeep.  I'm not sure the wing struts would
have helped.  Maybe I had wing damage from my cartwheel bounce two days
previous or maybe I just exceeded the max G force.  It was kinda heavy
and the rudder throw was large and the loops were real tight.  But the
wing separation was spectacular and the ground contact afterwards was real
Hollywood stuff.  I'll have pictures back in a few days and send them
to any noters that ask.  I may have forgot my wing struts but the camera
was on my check list.

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    "What'd I Say," eh...can't say I ever heard that one either.  Is
    this the same "What'd I Say" that Ray Charles made popular back
    in the late `50's?  If so, I wasn't aware Roy had "covered" this
    one.
    
    Back to the topic at hand...did the Jeep have a 1-piece wing or
    was it a 2-piece, plug-in panels affair?  If the former, I'd have
    expected the wing to be structurally sound by itself, using the
    struts for scale and cosmetics only UNLESS, as you've surmised,
    some undetected center-section damage was sustained in the cartwheel.
    If the latter, the struts were very probably functional as you proved
    with your unfortunate experience.
    
    I know it's a little late but, after "thumping" a bird it's a good
    practice to "stress" the airframe in all the critical areas, looking
    for any abnormal weakness, especially in the wing center-section.
    Another thing I'd recommend applies to flying technique:  always
    fly aerobatic maneuvers as though a human pilot is on board, i.e.
    if the maneuver was performed so sharply as to have blacked out
    the pilot, it wasn't realistic or prototypical in the first place,
    not to mention the added stresses exerted on the airframe.
    
    On loops, don't try for 10-foot diameter loops (that would've surely
    killed a human pilot)...instead, fly them gracefull open, throttling
    back on the downhill side.  Not only is this more ealistic, it's
    a helluva' lot easier on the airframe!
    
    I strive to fly every maneuver of every flight as smoothly, gracefully,
    realistically and precisely as I possibly canand I believe the reward
    is a feeling of complete mastery over the model as opposed to looking
    to an observer like yer' just "stirring the sticks."  The confidence
    gained from this feeling is immeasurable.
    
    Please understand that I'm not attempting to preach as I know nothing
    of yer' flying style but I'd sure recommend steering clear of the
    super-tight loops you eluded to or other high-G (stress) maneuvers. 
    
    What's on the docket for yer' next project.  I know you had some
    aspirations toward getting involved in scale competition so I'd
    sure encourage you to get another scale ship started right away,
    "get right back on the horse that threw ya," so to speak.  Another
    Jeep, perhaps........?
    
    Adios amigo,	Al
    
    P.S.  Yer' right, the 3rd song title was "Ride Away:"
    
    Two wheels a'turnin'
    One heart a' yearnin'
    Big motor burnin' th' road........
    
    I'll ride the highway,
    Roads and the byway, 
    Headin' for places unknown........
    

>    Back to the topic at hand...did the Jeep have a 1-piece wing or
>    was it a 2-piece, plug-in panels affair?  If the former, I'd have
>    expected the wing to be structurally sound by itself, using the
>    struts for scale and cosmetics only UNLESS, as you've surmised,
>    some undetected center-section damage was sustained in the cartwheel.
>    If the latter, the struts were very probably functional as you proved
>    with your unfortunate experience.
>
It was a one piece wing that was thinner at the center and thickest
where the wing struts fastened.  My guess is it was probably a combination
of all three things contributing to the failure.  Stupid high G maneuver,
damage from previous cartwheel, and lack of wing struts.

About a possible scale project for winter...
I liked the looks and building of the Jeep - but I gotta tell you it was
a handful.  If I could have gotten several flights on it I may have changed
my mind but I'm used to slower planes.  I prefer Bipes but I really
prefer Bipes without struts between the wings like in the Das Bipe Stick,
Hot Canary, and I believe one version of the Super Aeromaster Bipe 
(correct me if I'm wrong about the Aeromaster).  Still waiting for inspiration
and for Tom to mail me his copy of the RCM plans catalog.  I saw in the
Cartesian (sp) plans a 1986 plan for a MiG 3.  Is that the basis of your
plane?  I think it was 4 channel and about 53 inch wing.

              _!_      
Bye        ----O----   
Kay R. Fisher / \     

================================================================================

    Kay,
    
    The Aeromaster doesn't require interplane struts, if fact, most
    of `em I've seen didn't have any.  I'm not sure the plans for the
    Great Planes version even show them...the Andrews version didn't.
    So, you have the option to add them for cosmetics or leave `em off
    for simplicity.
    
    Regarding the MiG-3, mine was started in about 1980, using plans
    from the design by Alan Spievack, published in a `76 issue (I think)
    as a basis, and was first flown in July of `84.  The one you saw is 
    nearly 20" smaller in span than mine which spans 72 3/4". 
    
    Before you ask, NO it didn't really take 4-years to build the MiG.
    It was probably more like a total building time of 7-8 months but
    this 7-8 months was spread over nearly a 4-year period. I'd build
    on it furiously for a coupla weeks, then hang it up and ignore it
    for months before taking another lick or two at it.
    
    Adios amigo,	Al

    The aeromaster assembly shows the interplane struts as optional.
    They show them in one picture and not in another.  They do detail
    how to install them, but Great Planes does not supply the hardware.
    I just got an Aeromaster kit and I plan to build it this winter.
    It looks like a fairly complicated project compared to other
    Great Planes kits I have built.  I am sure that I will have
    questions to ask of the more experienced builders out there as
    I get started. 
    
    Charlie
    

        Re:< Note 96.18 by LEDS::WATT >

        Charlie,
        
                Do yourself  a favor and make the following modifications
        to the kit.    Add  a  thin  plywood doubler on the inside of the
        fuse.  The soft  balsa  isn't  very  strong  and  you  will  find
        yourself making major repairs after each hard landing.  The other
        modification I would make is to  initially  build  it without the
        cowl, and definitely NOT mount the engine  upside  down.   I made
        both mistakes and have regretted them.
        
        Anker

    Charlie,
    
    Anker makes good points regarding the Aeromaster airframe.  The
    weakest point of the fuselage is at the bulkhead/former which makes
    ou the headrest/rear of the cockpit.  Given a good thump, the fuse
    is almost guaranteed to break at this point adjacent to the trailing
    edge of the lower wing.  A little ply reinforcement in this area
    would make the fuse much more durable.
    
    I've found the optimum engine mount setup is to angle the cylinder
    head ~45-degrees to the left of vertical when viewed from the front.
    This provides the best handling/running characteristics of both
    an upright and a side-mounted engine plus it lines the muffler up
    neatly alongside the fuse.  As Anker suggests, make at least the
    initial flights with the ring-cowl off as the ABS plastic material
    is not that durable in the event of nose-overs.  A better bet might
    be to fair-in the nose to a spinner using balsa blocks (as the original
    Andrews kit was) and forget about the ring-cowl altogether.       
    
    As to the interplane struts; while they provide no functional support,
    I like them as they add an air of realism to the ship.  But, again,
    leave `em off `til yer' comfortable flying the bird as they'll
    cause extra/unnecessary damage to both wings if you should get it
    on it's back or cartwheel it while familiarizing yer'self with the
    ground handling.                                            
    
    Adios and let us know how it's going as you progress,	Al

    REf .19 and .20
    
    Anker and Al,
    	Thanks for the advice on the Aeromaster mods.  I'll do some
    serious planning before starting construction.  I will start a
    new topic for the Aeromaster so that others can find it.  I
    agree on the engine mounting as well!  I hate inverted engines,
    especially if they are well cowled.  I am still debating what
    engine to use in this bird and my cowl decisions will probably
    depend on my choice of 2-stroke or 4-stroke.  The 2-stroke
    60 size mufflers are large and hard to fit behind a cowl.
    
    
    THanks again,
    
    Charlie
    

			      < R.I.P >