Conference vicki::boats

    Some trailer tires need 55-60 lbs and others 35lbs.....it will say
    maximum pressure to be inflated...stamped right on the side wall
    of the tire. If your using regular auto tires, than 35lbs would be the
    max.... also dont mix radial and regular tires...they track different
    and could cause you an accident. Best to get 2 tires of the same make,
    because even tire makers have different heights to their tires with
    the same sizes...just like men's pants....size 34 waist in one brand
    is not nessarily the same in another make.... and look for good rubber
    if your buying used....you have 4000 lbs riding on it.....

    Get "Trailer Service" tires for your investment. They have a heavier
    load rating and can take UP TO 50 PSI cold pressure. You've been lucky
    to have not had a blow-out yet.
    
    Mike

    If your trailer has only 2 tires and those tires are rated at 1600 lbs
    (on the sidewall) you are living dangerously if you carry more than
    3200 lbs (boat & trailer combined). You are also living dangerously
    if you are inflating your tires to a higher pressure than is stamped
    on the sidewall.
    
    Trailers use special tires, with varying load ratings (the higher the
    load rating letter, the higher the load in lbs.) There are a number of
    books and publications available that deal specifically with
    trailering. I have also picked up pamphlets (uscg?) at boat shows.
    
    The way that these physically smaller tires can handle a large load
    rating is being constructed to safely hold a higher pressure.
    They spin faster than a larger tire, so bearing health is very
    important and propre inflation pressure is necessary to  prevent
    premature failure.
    
    Several of the book clubs and outlets that cater to maring publications
    have a new textbook with everything you wanted to know about
    trailiering. I will try to look at the tilee of mine at home tonight.
    I highly recommend it for anyone who trailers a lot. If it saves one
    problem or mishap it will have been money well spent.
    
    Bill
    

Tires come with different load ratings. The tires that are on my trailer have
a different (higher) load rating than standard auto tires, though they look
the same. I don't remember the load rating (B perhpas?), but they are
designated
by letters. The max load rating on them is achieved at 65psi. I replaced
them last year with the same type. Ihad no trouble finding them, nor where
they particularly expensive. I'll get you the particulars if you would like.

    re .2 - My trailer tires are rated for 90 lbs cold pressure.
    
    Bill
    

    re .2 - My trailer tires are rated for 90 lbs cold pressure.
    
    OOOH! That's some kind of pressure! Sorry, I had been referring to my
    own tires, some 7.50 X 14 load rating "C" Trailer Service specimens.
    
    I've found that if I run with 35-40 PSI, as I usually do hauling the
    trailer and boat out from winter storage to the filling station--only a
    4 mile drive at 40 MPH--, my tires heat up to at least 90 F (when the
    ambient temperature is more like 70 F.) I haul at around 3500 lbs,
    including trailer. The proper pressure allows the tires to run at a
    much lower temperature. 
    
    

Could someone explain to me the difference between a "regular" tire and a
"trailer" tire?

I understand that tires come in different sizes and different load ratings, but
I don't understand how 2 radial tires which are the same size, have the same 
load rating, and same tread design would differ based on whether I had them 
mounted on my pickup or on my boat trailer.

Is the difference merely the "load rating" variable about which the average car 
owner probably doesn't care?

Al

    That sounds like a good question for a tire dealer (not to be confused
    with "tire installer!")
    
    My goodyear has the name "Trailer Service" as its name on the sidewall.
    
    Mike

    > I don't understand how 2 radial tires which are the same size, have
    > the same load rating, and same tread design would differ based on whether 
    > I had them mounted on my pickup or on my boat trailer.
    
    They don't have the same load rating as a car tire. A trailer tire has
    a significantly higher load rating (in many cases, for the same size
    tire) I presume they have more plies etc. For example, when I was in
    the USAF working on fighters, their tires were about the size of a car
    tire, but were 22 ply (if I recall correctly) and were made to
    withstand the impact of a 20-ton aircraft hitting the runway.

    
    
    	Typically trailer tires are narrow and have multy plies for load
    weight. To were as a auto/truck tire is wider.
    Assuming we are talking about 14 to 15 inch tires. You can
    buy tires that are rated up to "E" which is a ten ply tire, used on
    pickup trucks. As indicated earlier, the more plies, the stiffer the
    side wall and more load capacity. With a stiffer side wall it cuts down
    on the swaying back and forth of a trailer and tow vehicle because of
    to soft of side wall.
    
    	Mike
    

    I thought radial tires on a trailer was a no-no ???

I had a hard time finding 4 ply tires at all the traditional tire outfits. 
Most said "we havn't sold ply tires since the 60s" and when I found the the
correct kind they were very expensive.  One day I was at Farm and Fleet pick-
ing up something other than tires, I saw my white spoke wheel and tire already 
mounted for $60.  

re.-1
The load rating for radials won't meet the trailering needs

re .12:

>>> The load rating for radials won't meet the trailering needs

Depends on your trailer. I've noticed that the tires on some huge 
tractor-trailer rigs are radials.

:-)

    MY RECENT MOTORHOME MAGAZINE INDICATED THAT GOODYEAR IS MARKETING THEIR
    TRAILER TIMES VIA RV DEALERS NOT TIRE DEALERS.  ALSO, MOST TIRES
    DESIGNED FOR TRAILER USE HAVE "ST" OR "TS" MARKED ON THE SIDE.  THEY
    ALSO ANTICIPATE A LONG LIFE, SO THEY PROVIDE ADDITIONAL SUN PROTECTIVE
    COMPONENTS DURING CONSTRUCTION.  A LOCAL TRAILER MANUFACTURER IS
    PROVIDING RADIALS ON ALL OF THEIR NEW TRAILERS.  I DO NOT KNOW IF THEY
    ARE "ST" RATING.

    I get checking (dry rot?) in my trailer tires far more often than I
    have noticed in auto tires.  Is this due to all the sitting the trailer
    does?  Is it UV light from the sun causing the damage?  Why are tires
    that sit more prone to dry rot than tires on a vehicle being used 
    daily?  They are both out in the sun.  Does Armor All help reduce
    eliminate dry rot?  IS THE CHECKING DRY ROT, or something else?  I
    am talking about very small cracks in the side walls of the tires as
    an example of checking.  Does covering the tires when outside help?
    
    Any info you can give me will help, I am tired of wasting tires when
    they still have good tread.
    
    Tx. Jeff

re                      <<< Note 908.15 by SALEM::GILMAN >>>
>                                   -< Tires >-

>    I get checking (dry rot?) in my trailer tires far more often than I
>    have noticed in auto tires.  Is this due to all the sitting the trailer

	Yeah, I think so...

	Specifically, I think its coz they sit on the same spot for
several (many ?) days, weeks, maybe even MONTHS !   Also, a lot of 'em 
sit on damp/wet soil/grass for long periods, which can't help.

>    does?  Is it UV light from the sun causing the damage?  Why are tires
>    that sit more prone to dry rot than tires on a vehicle being used 
>    daily?  They are both out in the sun.  Does Armor All help reduce
>    eliminate dry rot?  IS THE CHECKING DRY ROT, or something else?  I
>    am talking about very small cracks in the side walls of the tires as
>    an example of checking.  Does covering the tires when outside help?

	I don't think its dry rot,  just rubber breaking down under 
water and sun-light.   I think I remember seeing wheel/tire covers on 
antique autos at an out-door show one time, only on the side of the 
car that faced south.  I guess 18 and 20 inch tires are difficult to 
replace, so they shade them.  Maybe blocking the trailer axle and 
storing the wheels indoors for the winter would help ?   Also, try to 
figure out if the tyre that gets most sunshine is worse that the other
one - if you park more or less east/west.  It might be worth picking
up one of those wheel covers they use in body shops to keep paint
spray off of tires when doing wheel arch work. 
 
>    Any info you can give me will help, I am tired of wasting tires when
>    they still have good tread.

	    
>    Tx. Jeff


	Reg

    I saw an RV winterized the other day.  It was jacked up on blocks and
    the tires had white covers over them.  I wondered about the covers, and
    the last couple of replys clarified it for me -- keep the weather out.
    
    I use my trailer twice a year, once to put the boat in and once to take
    it out in the fall.  It sits on the same spot on the tires for months
    at a time.  I wonder if I should put it on blocks and cover the tires
    even in the summer when there is no weight on it.
    
    Gordon

    The trailer does sit so one side faces the sun most of the time.  The
    deterioration appears to be equal on both sides of the trailer.  It
    appears as checking in the side walls of the tires which, over time
    grow longer and deeper.  Eventually the tires start to lose air
    gradually right through the side walls I think.  I don't want a blow
    out so I replace the tires before they get TOO bad.  I am using
    Armor All on the latest set of new tires, checking HAS NOT appeared
    on these... maybe the Armor All works... time will tell.   And yes
    the cover on the RV's are to protect the tires from the SUN.  I though
    they were an estheticl frill before, but not anymore.
    
    Jeff

    You'd think that tires rated for trailer use would have extra UV 
    and ozone protection, since most trailer tires see little enough
    use that the tread will last many years.  I'm convinced that just
    the opposite is true however.  Most trailer tires seem to have
    severe or excess cracking after just a couple years.  It happened
    on the 1989 trailer that came with my Sunbird - after just 2 seasons
    the sidewalls were loaded with very fine cracks.  I sold the boat 
    after 3 seasons, but probably would have had to replace the tires 
    if I'd kept it another year.  And these were Goodyears, not some
    off-brand.
    
    On the other hand, I've got a smaller trailer that I bought a couple
    years ago.  That trailer had been left sitting since 1978, and I
    believe probably still had the original tires from 1966 when it was
    made. In any case, they're at least 1978 vintage, and those tires are
    still in great shape.
    
    I don't know the answer.  I do know that toward the end of their
    popularity, the quality of vinyl used in phonograph records was a 
    much cheaper than earlier records.  Could it be the same thing has 
    happened with the quality of rubber used for trailer tires?
    
    Rick

    I have this problem in my camper (six wheel truck) tires too.  And,
    we are talking name brand tires at 100 bucks plus for each tire! 
    Because I see this crazing in the side walls of both the trailer
    tires and truck tires I wonder what they have in common, and, the
    answer is they both sit around alot.  My Isuzu Trooper however
    which gets driven daily 'never' develops crazes in the side walls
    even after 4-5 years of use.  The variable to me seems to be sitting
    vs. daily use.  The Trooper sits in a DEC parking lot in direct
    sunlight every day, so sunlight doesn't seem to be THE main cause.
    
    So, asking myself, what does sitting have to do with it?  Non flexing
    of rubber increases cross link breakdown???  I just spent 430 bucks
    on two new tires for my truck and if they breakdown in a few years
    I will not be pleased.  I plan to keep the new tires 'immersed' in
    Armor All and see if that will stop or at least slow the breakdown.
    
    When I spotted the checks in the side walls of the two front tires
    on that truck (which weights 9000 lbs) I had a vision of a nice blowout
    on  route 93 with 'interesting' consequences.  That scene convinced
    me to spend the 400 bucks,  I can't keep buying new tires with good
    tread on them due to this damm rubber breakdown.  Any ideas on how 
    to STOP this from anyone?
    
    Jeff

re                       <<< Note 908.20 by SALEM::GILMAN >>>
>                                 -< Breakdown >-

>    I have this problem in my camper (six wheel truck) tires too.  And,
>    we are talking name brand tires at 100 bucks plus for each tire! 
>    Because I see this crazing in the side walls of both the trailer
>    tires and truck tires I wonder what they have in common, and, the
>    answer is they both sit around alot.  My Isuzu Trooper however

	right, they both sit still a lot for long periods  - -  
probably both are mostly on wet/damp grass/soil too.  I don't know 
what else.  I'd guess that the rubber companies make their compounds
mostly for tyres that wear (vs tyres that sit).   It is probably 
practical to make compounds for tyres that mostly sit, though it may 
be uneconomic.  

> Any ideas on how to STOP this from anyone? 

I s'pose you could just do like the ski sluts do, i.e. tug it around a
lot - all winter long, don't park it on wet grass for long periods, 
park it on frozen launch ramps instead  (-: 

	Seriously;  remove the wheels and store them inside for the 
winter lay-up, try to not park on wet grass, get a couple of body shop 
wheel covers for summer.  May not solve the problem entirely, but 
combined these should slow it down a bit.

	Reg

    I've heard that the proper way to store tires are on their sides.
    Laying them down. Does this make sense or any truth in it ?
    Walt

re: 908.22                       Trailer Tires                         22 of 22
>> I've heard that the proper way to store tires are on their sides.
>> Laying them down. Does this make sense or any truth in it ?


Could be.  But any savings would be wiped out by increased bodywork
expenses.  8*)

Rick who_is_in_a_don't_give_s#!+_mood_today

    Good one Rick, that did get a chuckle from me.   Not much I can do
    except cover the tires,  damp grass dirt is in, I don't have much
    choice on that.  One mechanic said that the 'oil evaporates' from 
    the tires.  Well, maybe not oil IMO but I get the drift of his meaning.
    
    
    

re                       <<< Note 908.24 by SALEM::GILMAN >>>
>                               -< More on tires >-

>    Good one Rick, that did get a chuckle from me.   Not much I can do
>    except cover the tires,  damp grass dirt is in, I don't have much
>    choice on that.  One mechanic said that the 'oil evaporates' from 

	You might have  *_SOME_*  choice.  Since you posted the 
original question I have been thinking about it from time to time and 
have looked very closely at my own trailer tyres.   Mine aren't too 
bad, in fact they're really quite good, so I did a bit more 
speculating re "why ?".   I park the boat trailer in the back yard, 
right next to a spot that I used to try growing vegetables in.  One of 
the reasons that I gave up on gardening was the soil... basically, 
there just isn't any.  I have about 3/8 inch of "contractor's top 
soil"  then its sand - probably all the way through to China (or Kiwi 
land).  Even torrential rain storms don't produce lasting puddles in
my yard, by the time it stops raining the soil (sic) is just about 
drained.  So, FWIW, I think the  *_EXCELLENT_*  drainage is helping to 
preserve my trailer tyres.  What it would be worth to improve the 
drainage around your trailer is a personal decision, but a couple of 
2ft square concrete patio pads are probably cheap enough and easy 
enough to instal (just throw 'em down in the right place) to be worth
a try.  If you wanted to invest more labor, maybe a couple of inches
of sand or gravel underneath them would help some more.... depends on
how low the parking spot is to the surrounding area.  You COULD try
just moving it to higher and dryer ground - lot layout permitting. 
For the motor home I would definitely consider 4 or six inches of
gravel, maybe in four 2 ft square frames if 18ft x 8ft would be too
much. 

>    the tires.  Well, maybe not oil IMO but I get the drift of his meaning.

	I get it too, wet soil really soaks moisture out of skin -
gardening experience has shown me this also. 
    
	Reg

    

    Reg.  I wonder if the moisture is that much of a factor.  After all,
    cars run in puddles and wet stuff all the time and their tires don't
    degrade rapidly.  It must be the COMBINATION of sunlight, sitting,
    and moisture.  The only variable trailer tires don't share with most
    cars is disuse, that is, the trailer tires sit alot.
    
    But I will think about your moisture prevention ideas.
    
    Thanks
    
    Jeff

The word I've gotten from folks who have trailered boats, campers, etc. for many
years is that it's the sitting around without movement for X months that kills
tires.  Your car tires get lots of "exercise" and weight is shifted almost
constantly (there's a fairly low probability that a tire will *always* stop
rotating with the same portion of rubber in contact with the ground).  Not so
with a boat trailer.  It sits with full weight of boat & trailer on the tires for
X months, pressure is placed on the point of contact with the ground (and the
sidewalls near the point of contact) for an extended period and it's probably not
climate controlled in most cases.  All these factors combine to reduce tire life.

The recommendation:  get the weight off the tires.

Good:	Lift trailer off the ground enough to take the weight off the tires.
	Block under the axle(s) or suitable location on trailer frame.

Better:	Do as above, but remove tires, inflate them to proper pressure, and store
	them in a place where it doesn't get too cold (a garage is probably fine,
	a basement is better).

As for the moisture idea, it's possible it can have an effect.  I'm not certain
how "absorbent" tires are, but I'd think that it's a good idea *not* to park the
trailer in a spot that contantly has moisture/puddles around the tires.

FWIW.

...Roger...

    Whenever I put mu 650 pound motorcycle up for a protracted length of
    time I do as follows..
    
     Bike up on centerstand..simular to jacked up as previous notes
     indicated.
     
     Plywood strips or wooden plank with plastic sheething strips over the
     wood but under the tires..havent had any tire wall breakdown on
     any tires yet..FWIW-typical bike tires for this kind of bike only
     last 15K to 18K..depending on whether I tow a camping trailer.
    
     The Canuck

	I s'pose it would be nice - but complex and probably costly - 
to build some kind of a  "thing"  that I could back the trailer to and
have it lift the axle up and get the wheels off the ground.  Sort of
like the principle of that axle trailer jack that I see advertised,
but something the trailer wouldn't roll off of when I take the car
away..... hmmmm, maybe,,,,, 

	Or,,,;   I think I'll just drop by the builders' yard and pick
up a couple of concrete patio blocks, about 2ft square - maybe another
one for the tongue jack.   Then a couple of short lengths of 2x4 to
ease the bump - all done, quick and cheap.

	R

Over the weekend on the radio show "Car Talk", one of the 
questions was about storing vehicles for an extended period
of time. One show host mentioned that the necessity
of putting the car on blocks "pretty much" went away with 
the advent of radial tires.

I don't recall him saying anything more about the tire
issue. Neither did he justify why this is true.

	Steve

    I know that after my camper with bias tires has been sitting I get flat
    spots in the tires and the truck pounds for 8 or 10 miles until the
    flat spots get pounded out.  This is especially true with NYLON tires
    because the nylon takes a set.
    
    One of my motorcycles which sits for MONTHS without being on jacks and
    is stored indoors (garage) has no problem with tire deterioration, yet
    my camper which sits outside and get driven more than the motorcycle
    has a serious problem with sidewall deterioration.  I still think that
    its the U.V. light which is the MAIN variable.
    
    Jeff
    

    It is the uv light. It just breaks down the rubber in the tires. Some
    tire manufacturers put a uv inhibitor in them now. That could be your
    differences.
    
    				Steve m...

re                     <<< Note 908.32 by PFSVAX::MATSCHERZ >>>

>    It is the uv light. It just breaks down the rubber in the tires. Some
>    tire manufacturers put a uv inhibitor in them now. That could be your
>    differences.
 
	Interesting,,,  that could be partly why mine seem to hold up
fairly well - I park the boat facing south, so the boat and trailer
shade the tyres when the sun is most intense.  Not by design, just the
layout of my back yard. 

>    				Steve m...

	Reg

    I have a 1968 garden tractor. It is always parked in a building, often
    standing on a wet concrete floor.  The ties are still perfect, not a
    sign of deterioration.  I think that answers our questions pretty well.
    Its not the sitting... the tractor sat unused for over 15 YEARS before
    I put it back into service.   As Steve says, its the damm UV light.
    Keep the tires covered out of UV light and they last 'forever' leave
    them outdoors  and the UV kills them in five years or so.  
    The ties on cars/trucks in use even though outdoors tend to WEAR OUT
    before the UV light kills them.
    
    Thoughts?
    
    Jeff

    Ozone also eats rubber.
    
    Mike

re      <<< Note 908.35 by BROKE::TAYLOR "The tie goes to the 18-wheeler" >>>
>                           -< Smog danger to tires >-

>    Ozone also eats rubber.

	Errr,  I'll pass up the opportunity to comment further (farther ?)
    
>    Mike

	R

    Anyone got a good source (read cheap/good deals) for trailer tires in
    the northeastern MA/southern N.H. area, or mailorder?  I need to
    replace 2 Armstrong Sport Traveler 78 tires, load range C, size
    F7814ST.  It also says on the sidewalls (amongst the cracks  :*) )
    Max load 1710 @ 50 PSI,  Tread/sidewall  4 nylon plies.
    
    Any help would be appreciated...
    
    Doug

When I had to replace the four tires on my big boat trailer I found the
best prices at Carson City Tire on Rt. 101 in Amherst, NH. That's where I
bought them. I wish I could give you prices, but I don't recall, sorry.

I can tell you it's 603-673-5402.

Art

    I bought two sets of tires in October at VIP auto discounters on RT
    101A in Merrimack.  I priced tires at every discount place in Southern 
    NH including BJ's, Tire Warehouse, NTW, etc.  They had the best prices 
    and selection plus they are open on Sundays.  They also carry trailer
    tires with or without new rims.  They are located about five minutes
    from the DEC MK1 facility.  If you need further directions, send me
    mail.
    Wayne

    	Protect those load range D, 15 inch bias ply tires on your
    trailer, because I had to shell 92 bucks for a new one this AM.
    Ouch! A replacement wasn't too easy to come by either. It took
    many phone calls to find a place that could get their hands on one
    within a few days. Many places just said "we can't get them"...

    	Anyone have radials on their single axle trailer? I've seen
    them on tandems, but don't recall them on singles and was told
    by more than one "tire person" that they get squirley on singles.
    Does any know if this is true? Apparently, load range D radials
    are much easier to find, albeit pretty much the same price. (~110.00)

    Rick

    Rick,
    Nitro Bass boats (from Tracker) have radial tires on a lot of
    their single axle trailers.  I've never heard of anyone having
    a problem with handling.
    
    Rick

    Rick, you've seen radials on a single axle numerous times, you've just
    never noticed. :^) As for tracking, as long as the boat is snuggly in
    it's berth it tracks straight beyond any speed that I could imagine
    having to stop from. 
    
    ~jeff

    For the ultimate in high speed cornering while trailering, I would
    think that one would want to match trailer tire style to tow vehicle
    tire style.  Like the old rule: " Don't mix bias ply with radial ply
    on your vehicle". :-)  I personally don't have to worry about high
    speed cornering or squirreling as my truck has enough of a problem just
    making headway when towing.
    Wayne