Conference vicki::boats

PROPOSED? I believe this tax called a "User Fee" is gonna stick this time
    around.
    
    In addition;
    
    * A 10% 'you must have the doe buddy' additional tax on the amount
      paid for a boat over $100,000. This is in addition to sales tax.
    
    * The elimination of the sales tax differential paid during a trade
      deal. I.e. Your new purchase costs $100K, you received $50K in
      trade...You use to paid sales tax (in MA. anyway) on $50K. Now you
      pay on $100K, the full purchase price.
    
    ....all above around the turn of the new year...and like the previous
    noter indicated:    
    None $$$ of which is suppose to go to the C.G or anyone else who 
     maintains the waterways.
    
    /MArk

re            <<< Note 772.2 by GOLF::WILSON "Closed for the season" >>>
>                           -< Pay up you "Fat Cats" >-

	Right ON !   Get them people in their Jaccuzzzis (however its 
spelled)  I can't afford one, so lets tax 'em.   Golf balls too, 
anyone who can afford the time to play golf must be a member of the  
"idle rich"  so lets add $10 a ball - and 10% of their club membership 
and green fees too.  We hit the boozers last time around, and we'll
get 'em next time too, this time we're leaving 'em out.   Now, about
them home videos and soap operas that people have been wasting their
time with - lets slap on a punitive tax so high that the lazy bums
will give it all up and go out to work for a living instead of taking
welfare checks.  And while we're at it;   NOTES - the untapped revenue 
source, whadda po_ten_shul.  All them lazy dec folks sitting around 
all day reading and writing trivia from and to each other...  $1 a word, 
just for openers - make that $1 a syllable so the wise-acres can't get 
away with anything....  hmmmm, this sounds like a justifiable "user's 
fee"


	

    
    
    	I think somebody  (I can't afford it) should get a 40 ft
    	Fountain with 2  Chevy 454 Big Blocks and blast up the 
    	Potomac with it.  And when we pass the idiots that made up
    	these laws, we can flip them the b*rd.  
    
    	10% over 100k?  Ridiculous.  
    	No trade in credit on tax?  Ridiculous
    	
    
    	I had my eye set on a 36' Lightning from Fountain.  That's
    	to be paid for with the cash I'll make when the stock 
    	goes back to 150 dollars.....  8--))
    
    	Allen 

    They dinged motorcyclists, too.  When I renewed my driver's license,
    they charged me 5 or 6 bux extra so's I could drive my m/c.  You just
    know this will be used for motorcycle specific programs.  Yeah, right.
    
    Carl
    
    d*mned rubber stampers!
    

    
    Heard some interesting information on the news last night, but
    don't know whether it makes me feel better or worse.  The good
    news is that boaters are not being singled out for the new luxury
    tax.  The bad news is that beginning January 1, there will be
    a tax on airplanes over $250K, boats over $100K, cars over $30K,
    and I believe furs over $10K.
    
    They went on to say that dealers which sell the above items are 
    actually doing a lot of business right now, from those who can 
    afford it but are trying to beat the tax.
    
    Rick

    
      		Gee, I'd better get down to the Jaguar dealer.....

    				Kenny

    This tax is BS. The tax on airplanes excludes ones for business
    use. How many airplanes over 250k are used privately?? Who buys
    furs anymore (been out of sytle for a couple of years). The are nearly
    no american made cars over 30k, the tax is really on luxary imports.
    And anyone that buys jewlery over 10k probably does so in the middle east
    or europe. Why are boats over 100k any different than a second home??
    I don't see second homes getting a 10% luxary tax. The American boating
    industry will suffer because of this, people will lose jobs..... 
    
    Boaters are getting ripped off my friends!!!!!
    
    Bruce
                                                                    

I agree in principle with the preceeding. However I need to indicate that the
the statement that there are "nearly no American cars over $30K" isn't truely
accurate. There are a number of cars that list at $30,000 or more, and an even
larger number that will exceed that number with options. I still don't know if
the luxury tax is based on base model cost or final sticker cost.

Buick Reatta  $29,300 (will exceed $30,000 with one option)
Buick Reatta Convertible $35,965
Buick Park Avenue Ultra $27,420 (can exceed $30,000 with options)
Cadillac Allante $55,900 / $61,450 w/hardtop
Cadillac Brougham $30,225
Cadillac DeVille $30,205 
Cadillac Fleetwood $34,695 / $38,345 for 60 Special
Cadillac Eldorado $31,245
Cadillac Seville $33,935 / $37,135 for STS
Chevrolet Corvette $32,455
Chevrolet Corvette Convertible $38,770
 the ZR-1 is a $31,683 option on either model
Lincoln Continental $30,211 / $322,120 for Signature Series
Lincoln Mark VII $30,238
Lincoln Town Car $29,458 (over $30,000 when destination charge inlcuded alone)
 Town Car Signature Series $32,416 /Cartier $34,504
Oldsmobile Touring Sedan $28,595 (can easily exceed $30,000 with options)
Oldsmobile Trofeo $26,495 (can exceed $30,000 with options)

This tax could have a effect on the workers at the Buick Craft Centre which 
makes the Reatta exclusively. These people are making a pretty decent car, but
because they are dependent on a single, expensive model, the effects of the
recession with the tax on top could result in a lower demand and layoffs.

John
 

    Moved by moderator
    
================================================================================
Note 823.0       If you have a boat you must have money, right?          1 reply
GBMMKT::URBAN                                        28 lines  15-APR-1991 12:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
  
    Since 'bout December I've been following a story regarding the Coast
    Guard collecting a 'users fee' on all boats used on waters they have
    juristiction over and/or oversee.  This fee will be based on boat size
    beginning with up to 16 feet as the lowest fee ($30/year or so) and
    increasing as boat size goes up.  The interesting thing here is that
    while the CG is responsible for enforcement and collection, none of the
    money goes to them.  It's all earmarked for the general treasury.  The
    articles have described it as a "luxury tax" in other clothes.
    
    Some of the points raised in the article yesterday in the Nashua paper
    talked to the fact that under current wording it is unkown as
    to the extent of the juristiction.  Some of the points raised are, for
    instance, does it mean only waters patrolled by craft or does it also
    include waters the CG overflys?  Does it include all craft operating
    regardless of type of water(river, bay/inshore, off shore)?  The type of 
    craft subject to fee are not clearly delineated so that under current 
    wording even canoes and rowboats are subject to the fees.  They are still
    trying to come to grips with the vaugeness of the intent of this law
    and are supposed to have a public hearing sometime between now and
    July when the fees go into effect.  

    These fees have nothing to do with the state registration now paid and
    will be additonal to anything paid now.  Anyone else out there been
    following this issue?  I've been suprised that no one else has brought 
    it up as it means another bite out of the boating budget for anyone
    using federally controled waters, even if only once or twice a year.

    Moved by moderator
    
================================================================================
Note 823.1       If you have a boat you must have money, right?           1 of 1
GBMMKT::URBAN                                        23 lines  15-APR-1991 18:39
               -< Now that I have the article in front of me... >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Some high(low)lights from the article...
    Originally it was thought to apply to powerboats but the wording seems
    to make it applicable to all boats, even canoes.
    
    Fee structure is 16-20 feet, $25
                     20-26       $35
                     27-40       $50
                     40+         $100
    
    Recommends writing your congressman to register protest.
    The April meeting of the Coast Guard subcommitee of the Merchant Marine
    Committe will consider a repeal of the whole fee structure.  Rep Gary
    Studds favors a tonnage fee for commercial vessels entering commercial
    prots instead.  But if that item is taken out they must make up the 200
    million dollar shortfall.
    
    If the above repeal fails and the CG goes thru the public comment stage
    (45 days) without substantial change then all boat owners can expect to
    pickup their user fee decals in July.  Current plans call for the
    decals to be sold at post offices or toll free numbers for those using
    credit card.
    
                                           Tom

    Even though I consider it just another tax; I wouldn't have a big
    problem with a user fee if the money went to the coast guard.  I really
    object to it going into the general fund.
    
    I do my boating out of Newburyport and the coast guard is always
    visible on the water doing their job.  I have seen them go out in some
    pretty nasty stuff to assist someone in trouble (who probably shouldn't
    have been outthere anyways).  In these days of cutbacks I would hate to
    seem them spread even thinner than they already are.
    
    Gordon
    

A paragraph taken verbatim from the Union Leader 4/21/91 - Pg 16A:

Congress, in enacting the fee last year as part of deficit-reduction
legislation, decreed that the levy not apply to any boat of less than 
16 feet in length. The Coast Guard expanded the exemption and excluded -
regardless of any length - any rowboat, canoe, kayak, sailboat, racing shell,
rowing scull "and other recreational vessels propelled by oars, paddles,
poles, or sails attached to an unsupported mast."

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

The wording is still vague, but I take this to mean canoes will NOT be taxed.

- Dave

    
    According to this morning's Worcester Telegram, the U.S. House
    of Representatives has voted DOWN the Coast Guard user fee.  The
    new fee/tax was scheduled to take effect next month.
    
    Rick

    Moved by moderator...
    This story conflicts with what I placed in this topic in the 
    previous reply.  I wonder which is true.
    
    Rick
    
================================================================================
Note 870.0                        RVF tax time                        No replies
CUBICB::BARKER                                       22 lines   8-JUL-1991 13:28
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	If you have not paid your Recreational Vessel Fund tax
    	now is probably the time.
    
    	In the Sunday Providence Journal there was story
    	in the boating section.
    
    	Appearently the Coast Guard will start enforcing the
    	stickers as of July 31 and start fining [ up to $5000 ]
    	as of Sept 1.      
    
    	You can get it by phone [ credit card ] in two weeks
    	as 1-800-848-2100  or by mail at U.S.RVF,PO.Box 740169
    	Atlanta Ga.
    
    	The cost is :
    
    	16-20 ft	$25
    	20-27 ft	$35
    	27-40 ft	$50
    	0ver 40 ft     $100
                           

    I believe that an effort is underway in  congress to get this repealed. 
    I'll look for the article at home tonight.

    Re .16
    
    Got the article.  It was in the monthly BOAT/US reports, vol 26, 7/91.
    The title is "200 in Congress Support Boat 'User FEE' Tax repeal". 
    According to the article, "...a near majority of the members of the
    House of Representatives have co-sponsored the repeal bill, H.R. 534,
    introduced by Rep. Bob Davis (R-Mich)."  They include a list of the
    members who have not yet co-sponsored the bill in the article.  I don't
    have the time to type it in, but if someone wants a copy, send me mail.
    
    BTW, also in the report is an article about the FCC proposing a user
    fee of $50.  According to the proposal, boat owners would be required 
    to pay $10/year for 5 years in addition to the $35 fee.  Yet another
    tax...

Aw, gee, and my boat is registered (officially, honest!) at 15'9".  Guess I just
squeaked by that one, eh?  :-)

...Roger...

    RE: Roger
    
    If the new "free gift for the government" sticks, I'd be willing to 
    bet there will be a LOT of 16' boats registered as 15'9"!  (Not that 
    your's is...)  In most cases they ask you for the length, and we've 
    had experience at exagerating length for years!   8^)
    
    Rick

Yeah Rick, I here ya.  When I first bought my boat I was talking with some folks
who had larger boats and they were bitching about how they had to pay $XX per
year in registration because their boat was over 16'.  I said, "Gee, my boat is
labeled as a 16' Mustang.  That means I'm on the fringe, but I still get hosed."
So I take out the old registration and there it is, 15'9".  I said, "Oh yeah,
right, somebody's been playing with the little stop/hold thingy on the tape
measure, stretched the tape, and so they really lied about the length."  But
nope.  I grabbed my tape measure (without playing with the little stop/hold
thingy :-)) and checked it...15'9" tip of bow to tip of stern.  When Correct
Craft began making the Ski Tique (same basic hull structure) they made the bow
about 8" longer, so they come in at 16' 4-1/2".  Bummer, eh?  :-)

...Roger...

P.S.  I've also heard of people who report their length between lifting rings!
      That's usually one of the documented dimensions given for those fortunate
      enough to be able to afford a boat lift!  :-)  On my boat, the lifting
      ring span is about 14'!  Pretty slick.

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 880.0                  Where was it Advertised?                  No replies
HPSTEK::CYGAN                                        13 lines  17-JUL-1991 12:51
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I'm interested in finding out WHERE the Fed's have advertised the
    new FEDERAL RECREATIONAL FEE for boats ($100 for boats over 40')
    which is in effect as of July 31.  
    
    If you don't have the sticker on your boat, you're subject to a
    $5,000 FINE.
    
    Please use this note to tell us where you've seen this advertised,
    and when.
    
    thanks
    Dick
    

    
    	re -.1
    
    	Feds have an "advert" in the Coast Guard "Local Notice to Mariners"
    	prob the week 1 July issue ... about the last page.  Only place
    	I've ever seen anything "official".
    
    	I'm ignoring the whole issue of buying a sticker until 
    	it actually happens (which is different from ignoring the
    	issue btw) since it ALMOST looks to be a possible dead issue.
    
    	They way things work ... even if it does pass .. they'll be 
    	3 months from being able to fill an order 
    
    	"gee officer ...I have to pay a fee because I own a boat ? hmmm ...
    	 that's news to me ... can I interest you in seeing my FCC
    	 license for the VHF ... what's a little fuel for the General 
    	 fund among friends? "
    
    					- Ed
    	
    	???
    
    	

    Moved by moderator...
    
    
================================================================================
Note 885.0                 NEW RECREATIONAL VESSEL FEE                No replies
SALEM::PATHIAKIS                                     39 lines  24-JUL-1991 12:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    ---< RECREATIONAL VESSEL FEE >---
    
    
    My wife brought home some information regarding a new government
    fee for recreational boats.  I called the Coast Guard and the whole
    thing checks out.  Here is the info:
    
    As of July 1, 1991, all recreational vessels over 16 feet in length
    are required to pay a Recreational Vessel Fee.  The fee only applies
    to boats that are used in United States navigable waters patrolled
    by the Coast Guard and there are some exemptions.  
    
    The amount of the fee is based on the size of the boat:
    
    		16+ - <20        $25.00
    		20 -  <27	 $35.00
    		27 -  <40	 $50.00
    		40+             $100.00
    
    When the fee is payed you will receive a sticker.  You have until
    July 31, 1991 to get the sticker.  However that has been extended to
    September 1, 1991 after which the Coast Guard can fine you up to
    $ 5000.00 for not paying the fee.
    
    You can pay the fee and get the sticker using MasterCard or Visa via
    (800)848-2100 (24 hrs.).  If you want to pay by check, use the same 
    (800) number and request the registration form.
    
    There is also a number where you can get info on the recreational fee
    as well as which boats are exempt.  That number is (800)368-5647 (also
    24 hrs.).
    
    
    Sorry for the bad news.
    Like we really needed to pay another "TAX" !!!!
    
    Dave Pathiakis
    DTN: 285-2784
    

    I just spoke to Rob at the 800 # listed to pay your user fee.
    
    He indicated there would be a grace period until September 1st.
    
    Go REPEAL!

    Rob also gave me an additional # to call 800-368-5647.  They confirmed
    (via recording) that it wouldn't be enforced until Sept 1.  I stayed on
    the line to talk to an actual person.  I spoke to Miss Picket after
    about a 15 second wait.  She said that a "sense of Congress" vote was
    taken yesterday on the repeal issue.  This was non-binding and not by
    the whole congress (she did not know what the subset was).  It came up
    in favor of a repeal.
    
    I suggested that a wait and see attitude seemed to make sense.  She
    offered that paying the 35 or so $ now and going through the hassle of
    getting a refund latter may be easier than waiting for Congress and
    George to finish the bill and getting hassled by the CG in the mean
    time.
    
    The way I figure it.  George is looking at the wrong end of a 35 or 50$
    fee for his Cigarette named Liberty.  So I'm certain he will want to
    get this enacted quickly before the coast guard hassles him.

    I've queried a couple of people around the lake about this tax to see
    how many of 'em have heard of it, know anything at all, or have any
    intents of paying it. Of the 5 people I asked a week ago, 4 of them
    haven't heard anything, and the 5th thought it had to do with boats
    valued at $100K or more. There is a tremendous lack of communication on
    this tax and I doubt very much that it will improve between now and
    Sept 1.
    
    ~jeff

    Sticker???? on MY boat???? 

    I don't want no *@!#*@ sticker on my boat.  I hope it's about 1" X 1".

    Might be better to get one though.....
    wouldn't want to get pulled over.... They might confiscate some on-board
    contraband.... for example the thong bathing suits.... wouldn't wana
    loose those!!!....
    
    Matt

    I thought I read in the useless leader that the fee had been repealed?

    I see people refering to "lakes". The tax only applies to "navigable
    waters" under coast guard jurisdiction. "Navigable waters" basically
    means "you can get to the sea from there". So' if you are a lake
    boater, you are probably OK and don't have to pay unless there are some
    locks to enter your lake from the sea.
    Let's hope for repeal.
    

sticker needed:

- coastal waters
- great lakes
- non-tidal waters that enter into tidal waters

no sticker:

- non-tidal waters that do not enter into tidal waters


/C

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 891.0                       New Ocean Tax!                          1 reply
SALEM::GILMAN                                        11 lines   6-AUG-1991 12:15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This note is to discuss the new OCEAN tax law which went into effect
    Aug. 1st, 1991.  i.e. boats over 16 feet long are taxed 25 dollars
    and so on the larger the boat.  I believe this law is similiar to
    an attempt to tax the air we breath.  A law to tax us for using the
    ocean!  Just another example of the Government trying to rape us of
    even more money.  That just what the economy needs... another drag at
    peoples' incomes.  I wonder if the people who set these laws ever
    read the Constitution or have any real concept of how the Government
    is supposed to be run.
    
    Annoyed.     Jeff

    Moved by moderator...
    
================================================================================
Note 896.0                     User fee decal fyi                     No replies
GRANMA::WFIGANIAK "YEAH..GET THE RED ONE"             7 lines  16-AUG-1991 09:43
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    In case anybody has missed it, the USER FEE TAX went into effect July
    31st. As of September 1st the Coasties will start stoping and handing
    out fine for boats over 16' with out the decal. According to an article
    in Chesapeake Bay mag fines could be as high as $5000.!!!
    So get out your credit cards and call 800-848-2100. They will gladly
    hepl you out.
    Good Boating.

    I was browsing in this note to find the 800 number.  Some of
    the things in here are priceless...

��      <<< Note 772.24 by GOLF::WILSON "This area closed for renovation" >>>
��                               -< Just say NO! >-

��My feeling exactly.  Even if the user fee sticks, I can't see how they can
��possibly enforce the $5000 fine without first notifying *every* boat owner
��in writing that they are required to pay.

��A court test case would throw it out in a second.  You think they'll uphold
��a $5000 fine to some boater in Kansas because he didn't read the Coast Guard 
��"Local Notice to Mariners"?  And I know plenty of people who don't read the
��newspaper.  I read the paper every day, and have never seen an official 
��announcement.

    So, I assume your defense is ignorance of the law?  NOTICE TO
    MARINERS is the commonly accepted method of Coast Guard
    notification.  Please try your defense in court, and let us
    know how it works out.

    I suppose you were trying for hyperbole, but I don't think
    there are any Coast Guard controlled water in Kansas.

    I think this fee has an upside.  There are far too many
    people with boats.  If the costs get too high, it will squeeze
    people out.  It's just too bad the fee doesn't include
    insects - er - personal watercraft.

    re .35  There are too many boats, if the cost gets too high it will
    	    squeeze some out.
    
    
    	You think that's good ? It's getting more and more so that the
    wealthy are the only ones with any "privileges". And you advocate
    that as a way of controlling numbers? Then I must assume that you're
    one of the "well to do" types that has no regard for the rights of
    all individuals, regardless of income. MAking things too expensive
    in order to control the amount of people particpating is wrong.There
    are wayy too many cars, and they are very expensive to own/register
    and insure. Should we drive those costs through the roof to cut back
    on the numbers ? Actually, there are way too many people in some areas,
    such as all major cities, how should we control those numbers,
    skyrocket food costs ?
    	Just keep in mind, everyone needs recreation and enjoyable,
    pleasurable things. Making these things unaffordable for the lower
    end is not at all a fair way to do it. Maybe, like watering lawns,
    we could have the "wealthy out on odd days and the "regular guys"
    out on even days. At least that would hit everyone equitably.
    
    
    			Steve
    
    (noticed you didn't put your first name on oyur note !)

    I thought I could press a few hot buttons!

��    (noticed you didn't put your first name on oyur note !)
    It's 'Lee'.  I hope that makes you happier.

    I wonder how the Coast Guard feels having to patrol and enforce the User
    Fee when, from what I understand, the fee is really a TAX.  Has our
    government increased the Coast Guards budget so they can assign more 
    manpower to a cause they ?will not? benifit from?
    
    I do most of my boating around the Cape Ann MA. area from Salem MA. to
    Newburyport MA.  I usually see the Coast Guard in Gloucester Harbor..on
    the dock and between Boston and Gloucester Harbor.  I rarely see them
    with a boat pulled over.  Seeing the heavy enforcement of the new User
    Fee..so late in the season by the Coast Guard will be like gouging the
    recreational boater at the 11th hour.
    
    Speaking with the Coast Guard from time to time, they indicate their
    major focus is on the commercial fishermen >their net sizes and drug
    enforcement.  The enforcement of the new User Fee and FINES will
    certainly be a new task for them.  
    
    /MArk

    To whom it may concern the user fee is good to Dec. 31st 1991.
    The sept. 1st deadline is when they intend to start enforcing the 
    $5000 fee.The notice was in the major newspapers in the beginning
    of jul.Their was also a notice in these notes files plus Boating/US
    has been giving updates because they are trying to get it repealed
    further more boating is not something to be takeing so lightly as 
    not to read the Notice to mariners this is your safety net if you
    don't read it you are risking your life.

�                      <<< Note 772.40 by DCSVAX::HOWELL >>>
    
�    To whom it may concern the user fee is good to Dec. 31st 1991.
�    The sept. 1st deadline is when they intend to start enforcing the 
�    $5000 fee.
    
    
    Boy, this crap is getting expensive!
    
    Mike

Well, I called to get my stickers. Originally when I heard enforcement was 
going to start 10/1 I figured I'd simply haul out on 9/29, but if they are
really going to start enforcement on 9/1 I decided not to risk embarassement
and pay for a ride or two.

I was told that it would take two weeks when I called. I can't remember the
day I called now, but I remember wondering that it might be a close call with
9/1. Well, it what I know is less than two weeks, and maybe one week at most
my stickers arrived on Tuesday. 

One item of note. They are numbered. My boat being a 22' fits in class B, so
the sticker is number B079079. Interesting, 79,000�th sticker, out of how many
20 - 26 foot boats on navigable waters? Relatively speaking a pretty low number
for so late in the season. My guess is that not a lot of people are in any rush
to pay this stupid fee based on my number, and that I am in a small minority.

    John,
    
    that serial number could be encoded with a regional office code or
    something to identify the area. Don't be surpised if you're only #9079
    in region 07.
    
    79K boats seems like quite a few to me, but then again, this IS a big
    country. I just didn't think that many people would even know about the
    fee.
    
    Mike (confined to inland waters for the time being)

    Has anyone heard of any Coast Guard action on this?
    
    I heard/read that they were giving warnings in Sept and would
    be enforcing in Oct.  
    

    You heard right..
    
    JIM.

    
    I do a great deal of boating around Cape Ann (Mass.) and in
    Beverly/Salem.  I have yet to see a boat w/ the User Fee decal.
    
    /MArk
    

re .46:
    
>>>    I do a great deal of boating around Cape Ann (Mass.) and in
>>>    Beverly/Salem.  

So do I. 

>>>    I have yet to see a boat w/ the User Fee decal.
    
I've seen several, not including the decal on my own boat.
    
Alan

re: .47 > I've seen several, not including the decal on my own boat.
    
    Ahhh yes, A prudent mariner.  And I too believe in being legal
    obtaining the necessary registrations & licences etc. etc.  But I like
    most of us boaters feeling the bite of tough times, trying to squeeze
    more out of the elusive buck, am having a problem opening my wallet for
    a fee that does nothing for the Coast Guard or us boaters.  I did file
    the necessary paperwork and sent $ for the FCC licence...now they want
    some more...when WILL IT all stop. 
    I will certainly call the 1-800-# and surrender my Visa # NEXT YEAR...but 
    I will attempt to try and get away without paying this year for the 6-7
    weeks left I expect to be boating.  And I believe the same attitude is
    shared by alot of us....
    
    /MArk
    

    I'am not a supporter of the fee tax myself but it is better then paying
    $5000 or loosing your equipment or both.

    Where has the figure of $5000. come from as a fine? How could the fine
    be $5000. for not paying $50. to $100. Even the IRS doesn't have fines
    that high in relation to the offense.

    
    
    THE FINE IS $5000..... TAKE YOUR CHANCES...
    

    I believe the way it's worded is "up to $5000".  They have started
    given out tickets to people but no mention as to what they have been
    fined.
    Wayne

    I got mine but it's not displayed yet.  it's in the boat.
    
    If I didn't boat out of Newburyport (where I see the Coast Guard
    everyday) I would think twice about buying the sticker.
    

rep .31

<    I see people refering to "lakes". The tax only applies to "navigable
<    waters" under coast guard jurisdiction. "Navigable waters" basically
<    means "you can get to the sea from there". So' if you are a lake
<    boater, you are probably OK and don't have to pay unless there are some
<    locks to enter your lake from the sea.
<    Let's hope for repeal.
    
When I called the "coasties" this weekend, I was told that because there is a
"Coast Guard presence" in Lake Tahoe, the sticker is required to operate in
Lake Tahoe.  The only way to get your boat from sea level to 6000' is via a
trailer, yet you still need the sticker because the CG is there. 

Bottom line is that if you might see a CG boat where you're operating, you'd
better have the sticker...

Al

    
    	Coasties on Lake Champlain have been cruising the shoreline
    	and walking the marinas checking out compliance.  They have 
    	been issuing "warnings" or so I have been told.  
    
    	I just got my sticker, the boat will be in the water 
    	until mid/late November (I had to cross out the word "FEE"
    	where it was on the form and rewrote "TAX" before I mailed 
    	the whole mess in) and it just isn't worth the hassle or
    	risk of paying some level of fine.  If/when they repeal, I
    	will certainly request a refund.
    
    	For all I know, I've got a piece of paper warning me that I need a
    	sticker to moor my boat ... haven't been on it for 2 weeks.
    	Plan to throw the sticker on this weekend.
    
    	I'm considering ordering an "E" class sticker for every 
    	vessel I own, such as my row boat.  E = exempt and covers 
    	boats under the limits and aux and public safety types.
    	Might keep from having to explain the rules to some of the
    	enforcement types on the water (there are always a handful
    	of people who don't seem to stay awake during their briefing
    	sessions, and make up their own rules).
    
    	Just wanted to let peopel know that at least up here, the CG
    	appears to be getting ready for Oct 1 enforcement.
    
    						- Ed

    I wonder EXACTLY how one determines the lengh of a boat?  That is, my
    "17 ft." outboard is actually 16.5 feet from the TIP of the stem to the
    stern.  The waterline length is under 16 feet.  Of course I am sure it
    will be considered the most extreme points of the vessel.  Can anyone 
    comment on whether my method of determining length is accurate?
    
    IMO this is one more example of excessive Gov. regulation with one
    more gouge into our wallets attached.  I wonder how much more of this
    we will take before enough people protest this sort of thing to help
    start limiting our being bled to death.
    
    Jeff

    I keep watching the news to see if the nice little fishing boat
    in Maine has a sticker or not.   Havn't seen one yet.........

    re: .56
    
    your bill of sale determines where your are... (if you have one)
    
    
    JIm.

>>>    I wonder EXACTLY how one determines the lengh of a boat?  That is, my
>>>    "17 ft." outboard is actually 16.5 feet from the TIP of the stem to the
>>>    stern.  The waterline length is under 16 feet.  Of course I am sure it
>>>    will be considered the most extreme points of the vessel.  Can anyone 
>>>    comment on whether my method of determining length is accurate?
    
I knew a guy in the Florida Keys years ago who has a 43' trimaran, with a 
sail that had some logo for a Humblebum 38, with that number quite 
prominent.  He used it to reduce his marina fees when cruising about!  
Perhaps someone could doctor the nameplate on their Zoomer 17 to make it 
into a Zoomer 15....

Devilishly,  J.

    I don't have a bill of sale.. Its a homemade (but nice) wooden boat. I
    suppose the last years registration which states the length would
    substitute.  My registration says 17 feet long even though it isn't
    a full 17 feet.
    
    Jeff

    
    	I have seen zero data on how to measure your vessel for this tax.
    	I have a "Rinker V-195" which is sold as a 19.5 ft boat, the mfg was 
    	nice enough to not add on the foot of swim platform molded as part of
    	the stern in the name or size designation, which was refreshing
    	in a truth in advertising vein.  
    
    	My Vermont registration sez it's 20.5 feet long which it is if you
    	got a tape measure to it.  
    	
    	A marina I used to stay at, told each space owner "how to measure
    	your boat" since they charged dockage as to boat size.  Even if 
    	you don't agree with their rules, at least they stated the price 
    	per foot and how to measure your boat (they had bow spirit to 
    	prop for length ... they took my word at size and took my money).
    
    	The USCG on the other hand hasn't even given out clear info on fee for 
    	size.  They mention less than 20 ft as the A fee and more than 20ft 
    	as the B fee, which makes me wish I had a 20 footer which must be 
    	free :-)  or better yet ... a 27 footer (any donations ???)
    
    	>16' - 20'< $25		>20' - 27' <  $35   etc 
    
    	October Soundings had a clarification for size and sticker :
    
    	Over 16 under 20	$25   A
    	20 ft to under 27	$35   B
    	27 ft to under 40	$50   C
    	40 ft and up	       $100   D
    
    	I've lately bumped into some people who didn't know about this
    	still, and some who are convinced this whole thing starts up Jan
    	1992 .
    				- Ed 
    
    	(Lake Champlain is just dipping below 60 �F, I've got at least 
    	 30 days left to play)
    	Maybe I read too many boat type mags, I'm only confused on the why
    	and "are we gonna repeal ?" and if they repeal, do they wait until
    	1992 so they don't have to issue refunds ??? (just let the whole 
    	thing die and issue a "we decided not to continue with this program
    	announcement).

    
    
    	In the case of my boat,I called the ( 800 ) number and spoke to a
    real person.I explained that my boat measure 16.5' from bow to stern
    and registered as a 16 footer.The manufacturer also calls it a 16'
    model.Their response was that they would go by my registration and that
    I did not qualify for the fee since the law says over 16'.16' and under
    you do not have to pay.So I guess they will go by the registration or
    what ever it is titled by (documented).
    
    
    	Frenchy

 >   The way I figure it.  George is looking at the wrong end of a 35 or 50$
 >   fee for his Cigarette named Liberty.  So I'm certain he will want to
 >   get this enacted quickly before the coast guard hassles him.
    
     And any other notes regarding the President, his boat, and the fee:
    
    Reprinted from Nov `91 Offshore magazine without permission:
    
    President Bush paid for the federal user fee decal No. 1 that decorates
    the bow of his 28-foot Cigarrette boat, FIDELITY, a Coast Guard
    official said.
    
    Cost Guard Cmdr. Jim Silvester said that Coast Guard reminded their
    commander-in-chief, or rather one of his staff, in July that the
    manadatory decal date was coming due Aug 1.
    
    "The Coast Guard did it because he (Bush) is the boss and we don't want
    the boss to be embarrassed," Silvester said. The decal was ordered
    "through the usual channels," Silvester said, by White House staffer
    Dan Rhodes, who has the President's power of attorney to write
    presidential checks.
    
    The fee for FIDELITY cost Bush $50.

    Re. "The Coast Guard did it because he (Bush) is the boss and we don't 
    want the boss to be embarrassed," 
 
    Sure, and they didn't want the rest of us to be able to say, "If the
    President hasn't paid, why should we?", or for Bush's non-compliance 
    to be seen as an implicit support for a boycott on the fee.
    
    Re. obtaining "through the usual channels," and ` President's power of 
    attorney to write presidential checks. '
    
    If it was through usual channels, I'd say it was a pretty amazing
    coincidence that Bush was the first call so that he got sticker No. 1.
    Also what is this writing checks stuff, isn't the usual channel to use
    a credit card?

    
    	hey ... I must be special too ... I wrote a check
    	how else can you write your comments on the TAX ;-)
    
    	but since I'm one of the 8% of idiots who paid their bucks
    	for this stupid thing ... I'd gladly fork over $30 bucks to 
    	the CG (as long as I got a T-shirt too) to keep them afloat 
    	but the general fund ??? sounds like a general fee is needed	
    
    	also from Offshore ... printed w/o permission by .63     :-)
    
    	from the lovely 55�F water in Vermont ... the Coasties in Vermont
    	... Lake Champlain ... dropped 2 citations in September here ...
    	served Sept 15th ... up here they were running broadcasts 
    	on VHF informing people about the fee ... prob a trick to get ya
    	to shell out on the soon to be new VHF fee ... I mean TAX ;-)
    	(I'm in a twisted mood tonight).
    
    	Offshore Nov 91 pg 68 : CG 1st Dist sez the fine for no sticker
    	will be 2x the fee ... probably ... they retain the $5K fine
    	but expect 1st time to be 2x the fee you should have been taxed.
    
    	They say they won't stop boats if they see no sticker .. though
    	random inspections are legal ... 
    
    	Vermont CG has a tendency to go gung-ho on anything ... we had more
    	useless Zero Tolerance boat busts here than any other state
    	according to Offshore reports ... by useless I mean letter of the 
    	law vs the intent of the law ... where a seed = no boat to the 
    	owner who wasn't on board at the time.  I think that time and 
    	sense = boat back to the owner here, but it was kinda strange
    	and thats from a person who imbibes in only legal brain damage.
    	

	BOAT/US wants everyone to call the White house & Congressional leaders
 on these days to push the repeal thru.  The numbers are:

	              The White house (202)456-1111
	         Speaker Thomas Foley (202)225-5604   (almost 2-term tom) 
	      Senator George Mitchell (202)224-5556   (go slow george) 
	 OMB Ass. Director Janet Hale (202)395-3120   (Assoc. M&M counter)

	I'll give you odds that given the political climate in the country right
now, this will probably be the minor issue the politicians need to detract us
from the mess they have made with all the major issues!

	no gospel, just my thoughts....

Cheers,
Garry

    
    Does anyone have any information concerning the User Fee repeal legislation
    that was suppose to come up for a vote in Congress on Nov. 18-20. ? 
    
    
    /MArk
    

HAWKEYE 	Hunting and Fishing News Serving New Hampshire Sportsmen

Volume 1 NO. 7 December 1991

Page 14

BOAT TAX SINKING?

The U.S. goverment hoped to raise $127 Million this year from a new Boat user
fee, reports the Boat Owners Association of The United States (BOAT/US), but
had only raised $ 14.6 million buy the end of the fiscal year 1991.

BOAT/US reports that 257 House members and 27 Senators have cosponored bills
to repeal the unpopular fee, but are blocked by opponents who insist on finding
alternative source for that $ 127 million project income.

BOAT/US president Richard Schwartz charges that the fee is affectting local 
economies which depend upon dollars from recreational boaters, because boaters
are pulling their boats out of the water early to avoid the non-compliance fine
of up to $5,000. "Recreational boating is a highly discretionary activity and 
the federal government is systematically destroying the American boating 
industry with this "user fee" tax and new luxary tax on boats," he said.

    	There must be some pretty poor economists running the political show.
    In economics terms, the boating demand is what is called "elastic".
    
    	There is a test, called the total revenue test, which when applied
    to an elastic product shows that an increase in the product price
    (taxes and fees also count) will result in a decrease in total revenue.
    This basically happens because the change in quantity demanded
    decreases more than the increase in revenue can compensate for.
    
    	Since this is the case, boat manufacturers can't expect this fee to
    be passed on solely to the boat owner without a decrease in demand for
    boats. As a result, this tends to force boat manufacturers to bear the
    brunt of some of this through lower boat prices (if they want to
    continue with the same demand.)
    
    	If boat manufactures can't drop the price low enough to compensate
    for this, they take a big hit in profits. Actually, either way they
    take a big hit in profits. Since these profits are taxable, the government 
    in effect gets less money from this source. In this case, it sounds like 
    the money received from the new fee's/taxes may be less than what they'd 
    get if they just left things alone.
    
    	The ideal product to tax is one that is considered inelastic.
    Cigarettes and gasoline are good examples of inelastic products. An
    increase in the price of inelastic products has little effect on the
    quantity demanded. This is basic undergrad economics. As I started out 
    saying, there must be some pretty poor economists running the show.
    
    	RAYJ

re .69:

yeah, but ......

1. The tax is such a small percentage of the total cost of owning a boat 
that it, in and of itself, is hardly likely to convince someone to cease 
being a boatowner or to forgo buying a boat. The total cost of boat 
ownership is becoming onerous, certainly, and any increase in that cost, 
be it a tax or an increase in the cost of fuel, dockage, storage, etc, 
will likely reduce the number of people owning boats. 

2. Isn't one of the basic assumptions of economics is that people do the 
economically rational? Owning a boat for recreation makes no rational 
economic sense whatsoever (nor do many other pleasurable activities for 
that matter). 

    The other component of the tax issue are the potential new
    commers to the sport.  People, like me, who don't own and
    have never owned a boat often tend to underestimate the real
    costs of ownership.  This underestimation often results in 
    looking mainly at the upfront costs.  As these go up, the 
    apparent cost to the novice go up at a greater rate than
    reality would justify.
    
    And as mentioned earlier there are others, like me, who don't
    want to allow the government to take any more money from us.
    
    -Joe

    
    Boy its really stupid, we've got diplomats running around the
    world, "we need to help rebuild Russia" who in hell are they
    sh$ttin$. we're gonna give them 400 million to help disarm.
    
    If they keep this up there won't be a country to return to..
    
    And george's latest assanine proposal, a $300 tax rebate.
    
    Next joke please..
    
    JIm

    
    
    
    
    
    			REMEMBER : Pearl Harbor.
    
    
    

    If the Gov. was effective and knew what it was doing we wouldn't be in
    the economic mess we are in.  I am not suprised that the Gov. is trying
    to get blood from a stone (the boating public) when it makes no
    economic sense for the Gov. to do so.
    
    Jeff
    

  Like it or not the FEE is still with us...  I received my 1992 stickers
yesterday, so now I'm legal for the San Jaquin/Sacramento river and the rest of
the Delta area...  Hope the weather holds, so I can get out this weekend...

  Haven't gotten the bill yet, but I'm sure I will...


Al

    >> Like it or not the FEE is still with us...
    
    Yep, I broke down this morning and sent in my 35 bucks for my sticker.
    The brochure I recieved said I'll get my sticker in 4-6 weeks.  Don't
    wait till the last minute!  My boat goes over in early-Mid April.
    
    /MArk
    

    Whats the mailing address (or phone number) where one applies for
    this most fair Federal Tax?
    
    Jeff

    I read in the boat/us mag that congress is trying to replace the 10%
    luxury tax on boats > $100,000 with a 20 cent tax on diesel fuel on the
    water.  I guess the lack of sales on boats didn't generate enough
    revenue.  When will we ever get real people in office?
    
    Gordon
    

<    Whats the mailing address (or phone number) where one applies for
<    this most fair Federal Tax?

The phone number to get the information (i.e. they tell you all the details)
is 

		 1-800-368-5647 -- for information about the stickers

		 1-800-848-2100 -- to order the stickers by phone

Al

    When will the Gov. learn that over milking of the Golden Goose
    untimately kills the Goose?
    
    Jeff

    I just received my 1992 Boat stickers!!!  Not exactly the the piece
    of mail I anxiously anticipate receiving like Prestone Anti-Freeze 
    rebates and stuff I send away for on the back of the cereal box,...
    but they're here and they're ugly. I received 2, one for port, one for
    starboard a big red "B".  I'm not much for advertising and remove brand
    name labels off anything from clothing to automobiles as long as it can
    be done without damaging the item.  The boat stickers should be applied
    next to the registration #.  I flipped over the stickers and read the
    following text printed on the back:
    
    The fee for which this document was provided was established under the
    Omnibus budget reconciliation act of 1990.  Persons paying this fee can 
    expect no increase in the quantity, quality, or variety of services the 
    person receives from the Coast Guard as a result of that payment.
    
    Anybody care to translate the above...
    
    I translate; You like to own a boat, you have to pay the piper.
    
    BTW: What is the  Omnibus budget reconciliation act of 1990?
         That where Congress figured they could generate Mad Mony?
    
    /MArk
    

    my translation:
    
    "you just got F....d and didn't get kissed.
    
    
    JIm.

    re: last 2
    
    Precisely how I felt after reading that statement printed on the
    reverse side of the stickers.  AND I PAID FOR IT!
    
    /MArk		
    

    I just got my captains license (6-pack) and am changing my
    documentation from pleasure to comercial. I have no doubt I
    will pay in other areas but I don't have to pay the user fee now!!!
    
    Bruce

    re :  Note 772.88 by LEVERS::SWEET One small win....
    
    Fat Chance you avoiding some kinda fee if you're involved in Boating.
    
    See the Newburyport Daily News dated Saturday January 25, 1992 
    Front Page >>>> LICENCES PROPOSED FOR FISHING BOAT SKIPPERS
    
      In a move aimed at improving safety on  U.S. fishing boats, the
    Coast Guard is proposing that boat operators pass a seamanship course
    and be licenced by the federal government.
      The Coast Guard was requested by Congress in a 1988 fishing safety
    law to develop a licencing plan, which safety experts believe will help
    reduce accidents and fatalities in one of the nation's most dangerous
    occupations.
    
    ....etc.   etc. ..I don't type so fast..Want the article? Send me mail.
    I'll send you a copy.
    
    /MArk     ......So they do getcha....one way or another.

    re: .88
    Bruce,  Congrads.  Not an easy thing to do and you need a lot of sea
    hours to even qualify.
    
    Gordon

From the March 1992 issue of BOAT/US Reports:

Bush Proposes Boat Diesel Tax
-----------------------------
  Alerted in the last issue of BOAT/US Reports that a new federal boating
tax - this time on diesel fuel solely used by recreational boaters - was 
being pushed by elements of the marine industry, members will be miffed to
learn that the Bush Administration wasted no time embracing the idea. The
proposal is buried, nearly out of sight, deep within the Adimistration's 
budget.

  The budget now being debated by Congress was supposed to provide tax relief
for the middle class. However, the new federal diesel tax is being pushed to
offset revenues lost from a proposed repeal of the luxury tax on new boats
costing more than $100,000. In effect since January 1991, this tax caused a 
depression in large boat sales.

  The proposed diesel tax - reportedly 21 cents per gallon - could take as 
much as $100 million out of the pocketbooks of those owning diesel vessels 
over the next four years.  Especially hard hit will be the owners of twin 
diesel powered sportfishermen and similar boats who may find their fuel bills 
increasing by as much as $126 every time they fill up their twin 300 gallon 
tanks

----------------------------------------------------------------------

 There's more to the article, but the above pretty much sums it up.  It's
amazing, that the luxury tax hasn't yet been repealed, but they're already
pushing through another tax to take its place. If the luxury tax repeal
fails, owners of large diesel powered boats will be getting zapped with
*two* new taxes.

Rick

    I assume this does not affect COMMERCIAL boats, such as draggers and
    "Whalewatch" type boats?  Brother... one would think that the Bush 
    Administration would get the message from the Middle Class and ease
    up a bit.  I suppose though that anyone who can afford a $ 100,000
    boat would not be Middle Class.  Even though this new tax will not
    affect me with my modest 17 foot outboard I find myself increasingly
    annoyed at the current and proposed tax structure in this Country.
    
    When I paid my 'Ocean Use Federal Tax' I included a note with the
    check which indicated that I paid the tax under protest... I did
    not say I hoped they choked on the money.
    
    Jeff

re .92:

Why just tax diesel fuel? Why not tax both diesel and gasoline?

    
    Alan, i disagree with the diesel fuel tax. i believe its totally
    discriminatory.
    
    I disagree even more with taxing both.
    
    Why arn't we taxing motor home owners, tent trailer owners,
    and the like.
    
    the boat luxury has almost completley destroyed an industry,
    
    You can correct me if i'm wrong, but O'day, Cape Dory, and
    Pearson (predominantly) mfgrs. of (sail boats) are history.
    
    If we need to raise funds we can spread the burden.
    
    Now for just taxing diesel fuel, i'll take a SWAG,
    boats that would consume larger amounts (more than 20 gal.
    per season) of diesel are not exactly cheap. the diesels
    add quite a bit of the cost to a boat, therefore the
    legislative conclusion could be those people have deep
    pockets.
    
    JIm.

    The tax on commercial users if rebated at the end of the season amounts
    to an interest free loan to the Gov.  Also note the term 'apply' for a
    rebate.  In other words, one could TRY to get their personal loan to
    the Gov. back.
    
    Jeff

.BACK A FEW.

	Interesting logic, "to replace the revenue lost by the repeal of
	the Luxury Tax".  I read somewhere that the Luxury Tax has yet to 
	generate one red cent, as there have been no boats sold in the US
	to qualify since it was passed.  Yet a whole industry has gone 
	down the tubes because of it.

	Remember, it's not just Bush, but Congress too!  Government Su__s!

RE: .92,  Why just tax diesel fuel? Why not tax both diesel and gasoline?

Isn't there already a marine gasoline tax?  My understanding (based on 
recent conversations with a couple users around Gloucester, not on 
personal observation) is that while auto gas and diesel prices are pretty 
much on a par today, there's a fairly wide gap between them at the docks.
Gasoline is perhaps 50-75% more per gallon, at least where my friends buy.

I used to fill my old diesel Rabbit up at 21� a gallon in the late 70's, 
but today it'd be definitely over a buck, often more than mid-grade gas 
prices...all [no] thanks to gov't taxes bringing the cost of auto pump
diesel fuel up to match gas prices.  Seems someone figured out the same
scheme might work on the water, too. 

Ever wonder why diesel cars never caught on much?  The incentive of low
running costs was removed before the market was built beyond a miniscule
fraction, and thus mfgrs took their cue from flat sales and dumped the
whole effort.  While the big boat market will probably just have to adjust 
to higher diesel costs, the small boat diesel market may be remembered by 
noters in the next generation only as interesting experiments of the early 
90's.

How much more expense per year might it work out to for a >40-footer, for
instance...perhaps 5% or less?  And for the 28-footer...>10%?

What?  Me...cynical?

J.

    Where I by my gas and diesel, diesel is about $1 while the best gas is
    $1.26.  Diesel (at least inland) has come down alot since last year.
    
    Read an article in the Sunday paper out of Manchester, N.H., that they
    are debating a $10 sticker for canoes in N.H.  This is for a paddled
    canoe, not powered!
    Wayne

    Lets see what else we can think of to put a tax on... how about the air
    we breath?  I sent in my fee for the 92 'OCEAN USE' TAX about 3 weeks
    ago... the check was cashed immediately but I still havn't seen the
    stickers.  How long does it take before the stickers arrive?   

    Moved by moderator...   See also note 911
    
================================================================================
Note 957.0                Recreational Vessel Users Fee                  1 reply
TPSYS::SOBECKY "Today is the tomorrow you worried a" 38 lines  18-MAR-1992 18:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    	I read this article in our local newspaper tonight. Mods, if it's
    	already been discussed, please delete or whatever.
    
    	Reprinted without permission...
    
    	RECREATIONAL BOATERS MUST BUY A USERS FEE DECAL
    
    	A new fee has been ordered on recreational boaters by the U.S.
    	Congress. Called the Recreational Vessel Users Fee, it requires 
    	that all boat owners that boat in coastal waters, tidal waters, 
    	or waters that have access to coastal or tidal waters by way of
    	canals or locks or dams to purchase and display the Recreational
    	Vessel Users Fee decal.
    
    	The cost of the RVUF decal varies with the size of the boat:
    
    	Over 16' but less than 20'	$25
    	20' but less than 27'		$35
    	27' but less than 40'		$50
    	40' and greater			$100
    
    	Boats 16' and under are not required to have the decal.
    
    	For more information, call 1-800-368-5647.
    
    	To purchase the decal using a credit card, call 1-800-848-2100.
    
    	This Recreational Vessel Users Fee decal is *not* the Coast
    	Guard Auxiliary "Seal of Safety" decal; the "Seal of Safety"
    	decal is still free and confidential and can be obtained by
    	calling the U.S. Coast Guard Auxiliary, Shawsheen Flotilla 303
    	of Lowell at 454-1909.
    *********************
    
    	No mention of whether it is a one time or periodic fee.
    
    	John

    Moved by mod...
    
================================================================================
Note 957.1                Recreational Vessel Users Fee                   1 of 1
SALEM::GILMAN                                         7 lines  19-MAR-1992 08:55
                                  -< Decals >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Why is this posted as if this is new?  That text appears idential to
    what I remember a year ago.  Does anybody know HOW LONG after one has
    paid before one receives a decal?  I sent in my money a month ago the
    check was paid by the bank a week later, but I still havn't seen the
    decal show up.  What gives?  Anybody know?
    
    Jeff

    Mine only took 2 weeks to get on the credit card 800 number in Jan
    1992.
    

    I got mine in 8 days, 800 number/credit card.
    
    Steve

    Ok, the sticker came after a month.  The check was cashed one week
    after sending the fee in.  The back of the sticker says 'don't expect
    improved service from the Coast Guard'.  Looks like this is another
    case of spending more money for less.
    
    I think we had all better watch out for OVER Government Regulation.
    Over regulation of many things is creeping up on us.  One by one
    our lives are being more and more restricted.  
    
    

    
    
       After talking to a marine sherif the other night I am suprised at
    the response I got from him.
         The county and state are going to split the fine revenue 80-20,
    their reasoning behind it is to get the sticker enforcement up, I was 
    told that they would be enforceing the law very much! ie not s chance
    to sneak through without one!
      
           This is whats happening in sodus point NY.
    
    BTW : charter boats that are documented comercial DO NOT NEED THE
          STICKER but dont get caught out in the boat with the family
          since then it becomes a pleasure boat!!!
    

    RE: .107
    
    I don't understand, if this is a "Federal" tax, why would the 
    state and county get to keep the money from any fines paid? 
    
    Rick

    
    
       Rick,
       I have no idea, maybe the federal gov. doesnt want to try and get
    the monies from unwilling to pay violators.?  it may just be a cover up
    for the people out here? who knows but this is what I was told first
    hand so I guess we will wait and see, shouldnt have to wait long the 
    ESLO derby is the 23-26 of april, they said they will be out in full
    force that weekend.
    
                                  Lee
    

    Someone on the USENET mentioned that neither STARS & STRIPES
    or AMERICA*AMERICA*AMERICA are displaying a user fee sticker. 
    Must be too expensive for them!

    Probably no trash placard, either.  Although, with no engine
    they may be exempt from displaying an oil discharge placard.

    RE: 110
    
    Boats which are being raced in organized events often get exemptions 
    from normal registration procedures.  This applies to both power and
    sail.  
    
    Rick

    I think the idea in racing is to charge others for the privilege of
    having a sticker on your boat...   ;-)   ;-)
    
    Carl

================================================================================
Note 981.0                  USCG Boat Use Fee Update                  No replies
NETATE::BISSELL                                      39 lines  14-MAY-1992 10:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
       <<< SICVAX::SYS$SYSDEVICE:[NOTES$LIBRARY]DOWVISION_TEST.NOTE;1 >>>
                              -< DowVision Test >-
================================================================================
Note 25.7                       US Congress News                          7 of 7
SDSVAX::SWEENEY                                      31 lines  13-MAY-1992 18:42
          -< House Passes Boat Fee Repeal, Shipbuilding Reform Bill >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright � Dow Jones & Co. 1992
Source: Dow Jones News Service
Headline: House Passes Boat Fee Repeal, Shipbuilding Reform Bill
Time: May 13 1992 1839


Story: 
  WASHINGTON -DJ- The House of Representatives, by a vote of 339 to 78, passed 
a bill that would both repeal a highly unpopular fee on recreational boats and 
combat foreign shipbuilding subsidies. 
  The Bush administration opposes the legislation and has issued a veto threat 
against it. 
  The measure, entitled the Shipbuilding Trade Reform Act, is aimed at 
attacking unf trade practices by prohibiting ships built after the bill's date 
of enactment from entering U.S. ports if they were built in foreign yards 
benefitting from government subsidies. 
  It would also extend the application of U.S. antidumping and countervailing 
duty laws to certain foreign-built or foreign-repaired ships that call at U.S. 
ports. 
  While the shipbuilding provisions were controversial, pitting shipbuilders 
and their workers against ship owners and port operators, the unrelated 
provisions repealing the so-called Coast Guard user fee commanded widespread, 
bipartisan support. 
  Under the measure, the user fee, which ranges from $25 to $100 a year 
depending upon size of boat, would be phased out by 1996, one year earlier 
than currently scheduled.  To make up for the lost revenue, the bill would 
require that the Federal Maritime Commission impose a 46-cents-per-minute fee 
for remote computer access to its new Automated Tariff Filing and Information 
system. 
   6:39 PM
categoryGovernment G/CNG
categoryGeographic R/NME R/US

    I do not remember seeing it, but is there a specified place where the
    decals need to be applied on the boat? Do they have to be next to
    registration numbers or could they be on side of windshield, for
    example rather than sticking to hull? Thanks.
    
    Larry

    The stickers come with instructions on the back.  For pleasure
    boats it says that they must be placed next to the state registration
    numbers.

    Where do they go if you don't have reg. numbers..
    
    JIm

    
    	I have a registered boat ... so the State sticker goes 
    	closest to the pointy end ... since they say you must place
    	the Boat Tax sticker within 6" of the vessel registration
    	I put it at the end of the number string ... away from the
    	pointy end of the boat.
    
    	I hope this is the last year for this Tax ... since the red
    	sticker matches the red trim on my boat    ;-)
    
    
    	rule # 4 sez the sticker must be attached "within 6" of the 
    	vessel registration number or where a number would be located if 
    	required."
    
    
    	" A documented vessel may display the decal on the windshield,
    	mast or other visible surface "
    
    						- Ed

    I got the stickers on in the right place, I think. The boat hull is
    mainly black with red trim so the Fed sticker looks fine.. but this
    GREEN Vermont registration sticker won't do at all!!!! I don't suppose
    they would print a red sticker just for me. Perhaps each year I should
    shop around and register it in a State which is having a red sticker
    that year??? Naaaaah. Thanks for the input.
    
    Larry 

    RED's the color of the NH registration sticker this year, Larry.
    
    <g>
    
    John H-C

    
    
     I should have read this note last nite! Got my sticker and the
    instructions on the back were unreadable (poor quality printing)
    I ended up putting them on the windshield side screens.
    
    
    

    Has anyone seen them checking for stickers this year?  Specifically in
    the MA/NH area?
    

    Moved by moderator.
    
================================================================================
Note 991.0                  user fee decal same day?                   2 replies
MR4DEC::MMOVALLI                                     10 lines   1-JUN-1992 17:56
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Hi,  does anyone know where one can pay for and receive
    the user fee decal in the same day.  I have an application
    which says that it takes 3-4 weeks to recieve the decal
    after paying and mailing.  Also, if you have paid the 
    user fee and are awaiting for the decal and get stopped
    by the C.G., can they fine you? are are u covered...
    
    thanks,
    mike
    

================================================================================
Note 991.1                  user fee decal same day?                      1 of 2
MCIS2::MACKEY                                        11 lines   1-JUN-1992 19:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    I can't answer all of your questions, But I applied for mine last
    month and recieved it within 5 days.   I have not checked my credit
    card to see when the (TAX!!) was posted but I would bet if it was
    posted upon the call and you got nailed the Fine would be waived.
    
    Has anybody out their been checked??   My brother in laws father
    goes out in the Thames river in Conn all the time and did not even
    know about the fine,  He has been stopped for normal CC crap but 
    they have never mentioned this before..
    

================================================================================
Note 991.2                  user fee decal same day?                      2 of 2
UNIFIX::FRENCH "Bill French 381-1859"                11 lines   2-JUN-1992 08:33
                     -< They don't care about the details >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I ordered mine last night (800 848-2100). I thought they closed at 8
    p.m. but I got thru around 8:30.
    
    The interesting thing is that I wasted my time looking up my hull 
    i.d. number. All she wanted to know was the length of my boat,
    my credit card type and # and my name, address and phone number.
    
    She said that I would have it in two weeks.
    
    Bill
    

    I ordered mine on Thursday May 14 at around 4pm, and it was in my mail
    box on Tuesday May 19th when I got home.
    
    It was posted to my DCU Visa card on Friday the 15th, they don't waste
    any time getting there money.
    
    I have a slip in Newberryport, and have been poking around the area for
    the past couple of weekends, and have not seen many boats with the
    sticker attached. So if the CG wants to enforce this, they are going to
    be busey.
    
    Les
    

    It took a month to get mine.  The cancelled check came back long before
    the sticker arrived so I carried THE CANCELLED CHECK with me as proof
    of intent/payment in case I got stopped.  I didn't get stopped.
    
    Jeff

    RE: .125
    
    Les, I also have a slip in Newburyport at rivers edge marina; where are
    you located?  I have seen the CG with boats pulled over usually between
    the Ice breaker and the toothpick most boats appeared to have stickers;
    maybe just routine checks.
    
    Gordon

    re .127
    
    Greetings Gordon, I'm at Yankee Marine, the last marina (closer to an
    old time boat yard) up river on the Newburyport side.
    
    I have a 26 ft Wellcraft Antegua, White with Red trim, the "Sum Due".
    
    Les

                      <<< Note 772.128 by AKOCOA::LIBBY >>>

    re .127
    
	First - I've seen the CG checking boats in the Merrimack for the past
	2 weekends, especially the hoilday weekend.  I'm sure they are checking
	for stickers as they stopped a friend of mine the other day.  Fortunate
	for him he had the stickers on board but just hadn't attached them yet.
	They said they stopped him for not displaying the user tax fee.  They
	let him go with instructions to attach the stickers ASAP.

	So the Sum Due is owned by a DECie !!!!  Les - I'm Dave and the fella
	that grabbed your lines the other day when you came in for the first
	time.  I own the "Harpoonist" almost across the dock from you....I
	understand you're not crazy about the current?  Not to worry - it's
	actually easier then still water once you get the hang of it!!!  I'd
	be happy to show you what I mean...I usually get there Friday night and
	I don't leave until Sunday night....I look forward to meeting you...

	Dave
	"Harpoonist"

    I read today where that tax/fee has been repealed and will be phased
    out according to the size of the boat.  I can't remember the
    particulars, it was verrrrry early in the AM, but certain lengths will
    go in a year, some in 2 years, etc.
    
    Was I dreaming???
    
    
    Ken

    What I saw published was that it would be phased out - 
    in 1996!
    
    But that was a couple of weeks ago.
    
    Bill
    

    I found it.
    
    It says the US House voted to repeal the controversial users fee for
    boats.  It proposes a phase out of:
    
    21' or less    10-1-92
    37' or less    10-1-93
    all remaining  9-30-94
    
    Ken

    I just got mine. It took 5 days - last Monday evening I ordered it
    via the 1-800 number, charging it to my visa and it was in my mailbox
    Saturday.
    
    Bill
    

    Moved by moderator.
    
================================================================================
Note 997.0             The New CG Recreational Stickers...            No replies
ABACUS::PARAS                                        16 lines  16-JUN-1992 11:00
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Has anyone encountered a Coat Guard boarding their boat because they
    did not display the new Recreational Sticker??
    
    I just received the booklet and application form.  I would have
    forgotten about it if it were not for the kindness of the Hyannis
    Harbor Master.  Seems he's a hero when he sent out this years mooring
    renewals. He also inlcuded a small write-up abou the new stickers.
    
    Basically, all crafts from 16 and up need one.  AND... they MUst be
    renewed each year.  Looks like another $35 fee to add to the ever
    increasing budget just to get the boat in the water.
    
    Gee... at this rate, maybe I'll finally be able to convince the wife
    that buying that used airplane is a sound investment...
    
    NAW!!!!

	re:134

	I saw the Coast Guard stop alongside a boat fishing on the
	Merrimack R this past Sunday afternoon.  They didn't board
	them and didn't stay too long.  I was wondering what they
	were doin?  It raised my attention as it was a large CG Cutter
	and it was near the mouth of the River with many pleasure 
	vessal's comin/goin and fishing boats doin their thing all
	around the cutter.  I wondered why pick this one out?

	Since you raised my curiosity I'm gonna pay attention to the
	other's on the H2O next time out and see if they have a sticker?

	-< Tuna Tail >-
	

    YES IN NY !!!!!!
    
    
       I have seen them stopping boat entering and exiting sodus bay on
    lake ontario, and in talking to some people that have gotten stopped 
    they ARE looking for the sticker, and if there is any questonable 
    actions you will be stopped and boarded!
    
                                                             FWIW
    
                                                             Lee
    

	re: .136 >YES IN NY !!!!!!

	Lee,
		Thanks for the sightings and verbal confirmation that
		there doin it.  Will be more observant here in TAXachusetts.

	-< Tuna Tail >-

    Last weekend, was on my boat for a considerable amount of time in the Boothbay
    Harbor region of Maine (resident Coast Guard station, even).
    
    I did not see *any* boats other than mine with the new sticker.
    

    Same goes for Lake Champlain. I have yet to see the Coast Gaurd stop]
    a single boat and I can take you to half dozen  marinas and you won't
    find one boat with the sticker. I won't get suckered again.

    We were on Lake Champlain the weekend of 6/14 and I had some upholstery
    repair done at a place at the Shelburne marina and was a little early
    for them to open. While waiting, from the mostly power boats I could
    see on the front row, it looked like about a third had the sticker.
    Later in the weekend at a dockside restaurant I would say about half
    had the sticker of about 10 boats there (including ours). I have not
    heard of any enforcement. A friend of my fathers knows a couple of Vt.
    Fish & Game guys and their agency was approached by Feds to help with
    enforcemant for a share of the fine. Vt. F&G turned them down, saying
    "we have to live with these local people, no thanks". I did hear that
    F&G was checking trailer registrations at boat launch sites, however.
    Due to having to haul the new boat from Boston to Vermont this year, it
    is the first time in a LONG time we have been legal with THAT.
    
    Larry

    I read the other day that the tax has been repealed!  A phase out
    approach was taken.  Next year boats < 20' in 1993 boats < 28' and in
    1994 all the rest.
    
    Maybe since it's been repealed, the Coast Guard isn't bothering with
    the enforcement.
    
    Gordon

    Lets not be totally naive...
    
    JIm.

    I can't step through the 143 replies to find if this has been asked
    before, although I did peruse the titles.....
    
    I hear that it takes about 2 weeks to get the user tax decal. What
    happens if one orders the decal, then unexpectedly finds they want to
    use the boat the next day, or the next week? Would any potential fine
    be waived in defense? Would the coastguard be reasonable upon hearing
    the protestation "I've ordered it"?
    
    I'm in this situation, and am a little worried but nevertheless will
    take the boat out this weekend, come hell or high water.
    
    Ray

    I ran into that problem.... order the sticker, wanted to use the boat
    but did not have the sticker... it took them 4 weeks to get me the
    sticker.  I used the cancelled check, as proof of payment before I
    had the sticker.  I did not get challenged on this, not stopped by
    CG. I thought it interesting that the check came back cancelled long
    before the sticker arrived!  Of course if you don't have a cancelled
    check the only thing you could do is tell them you had sent for the
    sticker and hope they believed you.
    
    Jeff

    re: .143 & .144
    
    When I called to order my sticker (no hello or anything, just "VISA or
    Mastercharge?"), I specifically asked what the policy was for using the
    boat while waiting for the sticker. I was told that I would be subject
    to being stopped and fined *but* if I mentioned that I had already
    paid the fee and was waiting for the sticker to arrive, "they take that
    into consideration". No mention of proof or anything.

    
    
    	re : .145
    
    	be aware that the people you called have nothing to do with 
    	the Coast Guard, the U.S. Gov't or anyone else that has any
    	say in the matter ... the people you called for the sticker are
    	just a phone shop taking orders for stickers and bassamatics
    
    	so it's really not "official" ... but it does seem to be close 
    	enough for government work ... 
    
    	what might happen is that you get a piece of paper that can turn
    	into a fine if you don't submit proof later (such as canceled 
    	check or credit card stub showing prior purchase) since you
    	wouldn't have that info until you probably get the sticker.
    
    		(not trying to be picky, but wanna let people know 
    		 they aren't dealing with the CG when they order the
    	   	 sticker ... )
    
    						- Ed

    I know, it would bmean going to court and proving that you "aid for the
    right" to use the waterways. So far, I have not been stoopped (in river
    aoff Chesapeake) nor have I ever seen CG patrolling in the area.
    
    Sorry about the typing. It's the DEC laptop with MS's wonderful
    emulator.

    copied w/out permission from the August edition of Water ski Magazine
    
    During May,the U.S. house of representatives approved legislation to
    completely phase out the boat user fees by the end of 1994. The fees
    will be eliminted in 1993 for boats under 21ft,in 1994 for boats under
    38 ft,and for all boats by the end of 1994.  
    
      Florida congressman Jim Bacchus,in a letter to Water Ski Mag,stated
    that he'd "prefer to get rid of the fees immediately,but I consider the
    House bill an acceptable compromise that can legally be implemented
    without affecting agreements to reduce the federal budget deficit."
    
      The Senate,according to Bacchus,will join the House in approving the
    repeal legislation,and bothe hope President Bush signs such a bill into
    law.  We'll keep you posted.
    
    
    

    I also heard over the weekend that the luxury tax on boats, planes,
    etc., has been approved for repeal.  Anybody else hear this?  
    Wayne

    I believe I read it had passed the House but not the Senate yet.

We were boarded by the Coast Guard about 15 miles NE of Cape Ann 
(Massachusetts) last Saturday afternoon. The (armed) boarding party was 
very polite and find nothing to complain about. I'm sure they looked to 
see if our decals were on the bow (they were). We were not the only boat 
boarded in this area (a popular offshore fishing ground). 

I was out in Boston Harbor last night for the Tall Ships and Fireworks.
There were an amazing number of small boats out there considering it
was raining all night.  Only a VERY SMALL percentage of boats (of any
size) seemed to have stickers.  There were coast guard boats all over
the place but I didn't see a single instance of anything that looked
like it might be a sticker check.  No one seemed to care.

    Well I sprung for my $35 contribution down here on the Chesapeake Bay
    however I've not been stopped in the 3 wks I didn't have it. I've heard
    it a more closely watched item in crowed areas such as Annapolis and
    certainly an attractive add-on should they be pulling you over and
    fining  you on some other infraction.
    
    

    Moved by moderator.
    
================================================================================
Note 1014.0            Help with stamp purchase/location.                1 reply
BUFFER::KEYES                                         4 lines  10-AUG-1992 11:14
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Can someone tell me where I have to go to purchase a stamp for my boat
    so I can use it in the ocean? Please send Mail to Buffer::Keyes, and
    thank you in advance!! Stan
    

    Moved by moderator.
    
================================================================================
Note 1014.1            Help with stamp purchase/location.                 1 of 1
KOLFAX::WHITMAN "Acid Rain Burns my Bass"            12 lines  10-AUG-1992 11:42
                              -< See note 772.82 >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
<    Can someone tell me where I have to go to purchase a stamp for my boat
<    so I can use it in the ocean? Please send Mail to Buffer::Keyes, and
<    thank you in advance!! Stan
    

   Assumuing you are talking about the Coast Guard User Fee sticker (Class A-E)
which any recreational boat over 16' long needs to operate in USCG patrolled
water;

  See note 772.82 in this conference for the 800 number to order the sticker.

Al

<		 1-800-368-5647 -- for information about the stickers

   I just called and was informed that vessels under 21' do NOT need a sticker
for 1993...

   Whereas there has been no other notes regarding this recently I'll assume 

that I'm part of the 10% that never gets the word....

Al

p.s.  maybe the silence is because most of the noters in here are too busy
      shoveling snow to worry about CG stickers yet...

re:.156

	I also didn't know and planned on calling.
	Thanks for saving me the effort and the $.

-< Tuna Tail >-  (Still shoveling in Oxford after 30")

    Now how do I remove the 1992 stickers from my hull short of blasting..???
    
    
    /mArk

    re: .158
    Assuming you're serious, see note 832.
    
    Rick