Conference vicki::boats

    There are different ways of preparing the bottom for painting.
    You can sand it with a coarse grit paper to roughen the gel coat
    up. I did this on my last boat with a palm sander. 
    
    Or Pettit sells #15095 Dewaxer to remover the molding wax, after 
    2 years I don't think you find much left, give it a good cleaning. 
    Then you can apply Pettit #6004 Skipsand, it should allow the bottom 
    paint to adhere to the bottom. Then use the bottom paint of you choosing.
    I'm had good luck with Pettit Hard Horizons the last few years.
    
    I plan on using the dewaxer, skipsand and Horizons on my new boat.

    If your in the area? I just bought 4 qts of RULE Glouster bottom
    paint. A very good paint. at SPAG"S for only $55 gal. Thats about
    half price as you will find anywhere else!
    
    Clean your boat very well with a degreaser cleaner ie: Lestoil in
    heavy concentrate. Rince well! and use scotchbrite to clean it with
    or some #600 wet sandpaper on a rubber sanding block.
    
    Prime it first with the Proper primer for the paint you choose,
    Be sure not to paint your zinc's or transducer! 
    
    If you have an I/O ? Use a tin base paint on the lower unit. Copper
    elsewhere is acceptable.
    
    Use proper safty percautions as noted on the paint can, As bottom
    paint is TOXIC!.
                                       Have Fun.
                                       Walt
    
    P.S. If you want O.J.T. you can help me paint mine :)
    

    You can save a lot of time and hard work by using lacqer thinner
    
    to clean the bottom and remove any wax or whatever. If your 
    
    gonna be in the salt, I'd recommend Interlux brand of paints,
    
    i have not found anything better. Before anyone jumps down my
    
    throat, i'm not saying there isn't.
    
    

    I don't believe anyone answered your question of " can I
    paint it on the trailer" ?
    
    I bottom paint my 25' boat on my roller trailer.  First I paint
    all areas I can reach.  After the paint dries, I move the boat about
     1' back on the rollers so I can paint the remaining area.
     I attach a small winch, or come-along,to the boat and  a suitable
     'anchor", such as a tree or a full size car ( old GM's work great).
      Block the car wheels, release the trailer winch, and crank away.
      It was only scary the first time.

    One more question:
    
    	How far up the hull do I paint?  In other words, how do I know
    where the waterline will be?
    
    thanks,
    
    tim

    I don't recall you saying how big your boat was, but if its reasonable
    put it in the water, put on the hip boots and make a few pencil
    marks just a tad above the water line on a few spots all around
    the boat. You can stretch the masking tape across the hull alligned
    with the marks you made once the boats out of the water.
    
    If the water is at all skummy, you'll needn't worry about making
    your own marks. This will have been done for you.
    
    /MArk

    HI,
    
    	After being on my back for 6 hours, using mass quanities of hull
    	cleaner recieving a sore back and shoulders I am finally ready to paint
    	the bottom of my boat. Here is the background:
    
    	Fiberglass Cruisers Inc. came out of freshwater - has never
    	been painted.
    
    	Schedule:
    
    	1. Sand the bottom ( # 120 paper) to rough it up so the primer etc will
    	stick better.
    
    	2. Hit it with Innerlux solvent to remove chemicals.
    
    	3. Paint it w/ Innerlux Primer.
    
    	4. Paint the bottom with Innerlux Fiberglass anti-fouling paint.
    
    
    	Is there a certain temperature I should be waiting for to do this?
    Are there any other things (gotchas) I haven't thought about?
    
    Thanks! t- one month!!!
    
    Regrards,
    
    Joe D.

    
      Your procedure sounds perfect. As far as temp goes, check the
    instructions on the can(s), I'm SURE that if Interlux wants the
    paint applied at certain temps, they'll tell you so on the can.
    
    					Kenny

    I believe some bottom paints require that you put the boat in the
    water within X number of hours after the final coat.
    
    Their are other paints in which it makes no difference.
    
    Which types of bottom paints ?? I don't know.
    
    /MArk

    On painting your bottom for the first time...
    
    Check with you paint supplier for your first primer.  I seem to
    recall that the first primer is a special primer for fiberglass.
    After that you would follow with a regular primer.  It may be all
    the same paint; however, it may be worth inquiring.

    Read note 323.1
    
    The product that I referred to in the previous note is covered in
    323.1.  He referred to it as "skip sand".
    
    Good luck
    
    P.S. Paint is a keyword in this conference.  You can do a
    DIR/Keyword=Paint and get all the notes on painting.

    There is definitely a primer required for this. Better put it on.
    
    On your sanding idea, Interlux makes a sanding liquid, why break
    your neck with a sander...
    
    
    
    
    Jim.

    OH NOOOO... Mr Bill...
    
    I completely forgot about bottom paint.
    
    I bought a used fiberglass boat which I plan to moor.  It was previously
    trailered and has never been painted.
    
    I suppose this means I gotta do it.    What will happen if I don't?
    Is marine growth still a problem in real cold water?  (Central Maine
    coast).
    
    Every day I find out yet another reason why a boat is a hole in the
    water into which you pour money   :-)

    Welcome to the WELL..
    
    Jim./

    When I purchased my fiberglass boat the dealership used a chemical to
    etch the bottom in order to remove the wax etc. and prepare the
    surface for primer. This etching solution was followed by a primer
    which I assume was compatible with the final (color of your choice)
    bottom paint.
    
    As for warm water vs. cold water bottom paints....bear in mind where
    the boat will be resting the majority of the time. If it's moored
    waaaay up river the water may be warmer there compared to the general
    region where it might be considered to be cold water.
        

    on the warm water, more caca grows in the warm water, get
    a bottom paint with more copper in it. say 60% v.s. 47%.
    
    Jim.

    So what will happen if I don't do it and leave the boat in the water
    for 6 months?
    
    Jim
    

    I kinda think your pulling our legs.
    
    However, if you were to leave it in Saltwater, for 6 months,
    the entire bottom would be covered with barnacles, and
    seas grass. the grass would probably be about 3 ft. long.
    
    Short of sand blasting, i don't think there would be another
    way to clean it. 
    
    Put another way, you'd probably ruin the boat...
    
    Jim.

    I just painted the bottom this weekend. Used Petit Power coat, the
    can said 40 to 90 degrees and good drying conditions.
    
    Bruce

    The stuff I bought (interlux fiberglass bottomkote) does not give a
    recommended temperature range for application.
    
    Does this mean its so full of lovely petrochemicals that it really
    doesn't matter what the temp is?
    
    I was thinking of painting now.  (40-45 degrees).
    

    The can of Pettit I used this weekend says to apply between 40-90
    deg. F. I prepared the hull of my aluminum skiff by using a wire wheel 
    followed by the metal primer. This stuff surely shaved a couple hours 
    off my life expectancy. This primer comes with a separate bottle of 
    'activator'. You mix the two and apply a thin coat to the metal
    surface. I did it in the cellar with the door open using an exhaust
    fan. I also wore a respirator type of mask to filter out the nasty
    fumes. Safety glasses were also wore. Other than the protection...the 
    paint process was straight forward using a sponge roller. 

    
    Clearly printed on the paint label it says: 
     
    The State of California has determined that the contents of this
    can contains chemicals determined to cause cancer.
    
    Wonder what other states have determined? Wonder if they know?
    
    /MArk
    

    RE.13,  i used fiberglass bottomkote for 6 yrs., its decent paint,
    i would not think you'd have a problem at 40-45 deg. but i think
    youhave to wait 6 hrs. before launching.  keep that crap
    off you, and be sure to wear a pair of neprene gloves, it will
    eat right thru the "playtex"type. don't use a nap type of roller,
    use a foam roller, they're made so the foam won't come
    off of the roller, the paint which is a lacquer thinner base
    will eat right thru a nap type roller and disolve the glue.
    
    
    
    
    also try and be upwind of the fumes... nasty stuff.
    
    
    jim.

    What have I got myself into?
    
    neoprene gloves?   I don't have any.  Can't I just clean my hands with
    the thinner/cleaner I did buy?
    
    I know.  Don't tell me.  Bottom paint will eat through the exposed
    human hand in 5 sec or less...
    
    You guys are scaring the s**t out of me.   Why is this going to be that
    much worse than painting anything else.   I've got a cleaner/dewaxer
    which I plan to rub on with a rag.   I have a primer and two coats of
    paint which I plan to put on with a roller (the primer is a "sandless"
    type).
    
    I'm going to do it on the trailer, outside.
    
    

    Jim,
    
    I think the warnings are to ensure that the goop doesn't shrivel up
    the ol' lily-white handies. :-)
    
    I'm still to be convinced that all the precautions (with the exception
    of a mask & goggles when sanding) do anything really useful. After all,
    for decades, painters have been using red lead, copper and just about
    every other heavy metal I can think of plus many other nasty compounds,
    and I've yet to hear of medical reports putting painters into the
    danger classes.....
    
    Ray.

    I think a few people are over reacting about the danger. Yes, bottom
    paint is toxic but it will take prolonged exposure and contact to
    make the average person sick. I have painted my 34' boat once a
    year without gloves and yes, have even gotten an occasional drop
    on my skin. As long as you are outside and don't directly breathe
    fumes, you will be fine. It is not like handling acid or something.
    
    If you paint a one pound rat with ten pounds of bottom paint, yes
    he will die!

	Any formulation thats going to keep away  (kill by poisoning, 
or in some other way "deter")  the oldest and hardiest life forms on 
this planet  -  is going to be pretty damned toxic, especially if it is 
going to have the desired effect for any length of time, say several 
months.   Bottom paint is  NOT  simply a physical barrier against the 
most tenacious critters on the planet - what can kill them ain't gonna 
do you (us, me) a lot of good either, even in small quantities and its
a lot easier for us to ingest when its being carried by the various 
solvents.  I don't think we're on the scale of 10lbs of paint on a 1lb 
rat;  try parts per million or parts per trillion.

	R

    i was not joking, and the gloves were not to protect the "lilly
    white handies" I MEANT WHAT I SAID.  The gloves i referred to are
    $4. bucks a pair, and you can use them about 5 times to paint the 
    bottom. Its not the paint drips on your "lilly whites" that
    concers me, it when you use the thinner, or lacquer thinner
    to get it off. your gonna rub it off, and while you do this
    open up the pores(sp) of the skin. As Reg already mentioned
    your trying to kill, deter, defend, the barnies and the bottom.
    
    If we scared you, you got the message.
    
    Buy the dam gloves....
    
    Jim.

re                     <<< Note 323.17 by THEBUS::THACKERAY >>>

>    I think the warnings are to ensure that the goop doesn't shrivel up
>    the ol' lily-white handies. :-)

	I think this is an irresponsible remark.    

>    I'm still to be convinced that all the precautions (with the exception
>    of a mask & goggles when sanding) do anything really useful. After all,
>    for decades, painters have been using red lead, copper and just about
>    every other heavy metal I can think of plus many other nasty compounds,
>    and I've yet to hear of medical reports putting painters into the
>    danger classes.....

	Right !   not to mention the generations of people that havn't 
worried about small quantities of asbestos dust...???   Ever see 
anyone thats worked in an auto body shop for 15 or 20 years ?;  there 
aren't many and the only ones I've met looked pretty damned sickly.

	R	{ever hear of  "painters' collic" ?}

    I decided to solve this one by being the most conservative I could: I
    pay a yard to haul and paint my boat!  It's expensive, but I freely
    admit that I don't know the *first thing* about actually applying
    bottom paint...especially on a non-painted bottom.  (Minor comment:
    neither do lots of dealers...the yard that just painted my boat told me
    that the original prep work (four years ago) wasn't very well
    done...they had to strip off paint around the water line that was
    starting to separate from the hull.)  For me, it's money well-spent.
    For those who like to work with this stuff...think of all the money
    you're saving!
    
    Anyway, one thing to remember:  you mentioned you were going to paint
    the boat on the trailer.  After the first coat dries, don't forget to
    shift the boat on the trailer so you can paint where you couldn't
    reach.
    
    Sounds *so* obvious...
    
    Jeff

    Well I did it last Saturday.
    
    It was right up there with major dental work for fun quotient.
    
    I threw out my shirt, pants, gloves, roller, tray, and everything else
    I fouled.   My wife picked the blue goop drops off the ground she was
    so afraid a kid would pick it up and eat it.  I tried using some of
    those cheap throwaway foam brushes for the primer.  It dissolved within
    5 minutes.  Hours after the boat was removed the area still stunk -
    outside, on a breezy day!
    
    Next time I pay someone else.  
    
    But the boat is launched.  April 22!  Took it to town (Wiscasset) for
    lunch instead of the car.   All was immediately forgotten!

    ah yes, the joys of "painting the bottom" 
    
    i just can't wait..
    
    
    Jim.

    It is now halfway through what I hope will be a 6 month season and I
    took a close look at my amateur bottom painting job to see how
    it's going (as much as I could see without pulling the boat out).
    
    There isn't any real gross kaka (as compared to, for example, the
    bottom of my mooring float which went into the water on the same day).
    
    But all over the hull there's a coating of this fine green hairy stuff
    maybe 1/8" long, but longer near the waterline.   I hope this stuff
    comes off in October.   Is it normal?
    
    Also the motor skeg doesn't quite completely tilt all the way out of
    the water so there's real crud building up on it.   And also the bottom
    end of the motor mount is gross since it's always submerged and I never
    painted it.  Next year I'll paint this stuff too (I assume you use
    a metal primer first).   In the interim, is there a recommended way
    of periodically removing it?  (A plastic dishscrubbing pad comes to
    mind).
    

    Jim,
        In regards to painting the outdrive - you should make sure that
    the paint you use is MADE for that purpose. The reason is that normal
    bottom paint has copper in it. That will cause the aluminum in your
    outdrive to corrode badly due to electrolysis between the aluminum
    and copper.
    
       There are *primers* which are available which are supposed to
    seperate the two to prevent this, but even a *scratch* will allow
    it to happen (of course, none of use EVER scratch our outdrives)
    
      The antifouling paint made for outdrives does not use copper.

    					Kenny

    Your letuce growth sounds normal to me. I leave my lower unit tilted
    down all the time ( I was told better full submersed than partialy,
    fact or fiction?) and what I do is scrub the unit with a scrub brush
    every few weeks to keep the growth down as much as I can. Not really
    much else you can do, otherthan pull the boat and power wash it.
    
    Bruce

    I've used Micron CSC for two years now, and both years have had "green
    fuzz" grow.  My experience has been that it blows off when I run the
    boat at any speed.  If I don't use the boat for a few weeks, it gets
    longer than fuzz...sorta like a wig.  Still blows off, though.
    
    The yard that applied the CSC this year warned me that Micron has the
    reputation of allowing fuzz to build...but still claimed it was the
    best all-around bottom paint for my type of boat.  So far, I agree with
    him.
    
    Last year, we painted the outdrive with Interlux tin outdrive paint. 
    We didn't get any fuzz growing, but did get some small barnacle growth
    by the end of the year (we leave the boat in 12 months). It has the rep
    of only lasting a few months, and then it needs to get repainted. 
    
    This year, we painted the outdrive with a Teflon paint, at the
    suggestion of the yard that painted the bottom. So far, nothing but
    fuzz on the outdrive...but *lots* of fuzz.  Again, it blows off when
    you run the boat.  We'll see how it lasts...(we just moved the boat up
    near Tracy, so it's in fresh water now.)
    
    Everybody I've talked to warns us *not* to even consider painting the
    outdrive with a copper-based paint.  In fact, this is the only place
    I know of where the Feds will allow recreational boaters to use
    tin-bsaed paint.  Unfortunately, the concentration of tin in the
    allowable paints isn't very high...that's why we tried the Teflon-based
    product this year.
    
    Jeff

    Yeah, the teflon stuff shouldn't cause any galvanic corrosion - I'll
    try it next year.
    
    After half a season in the water, I begin to understand why
    moored-in-saltwater boats aren't worth doopoo after a few years.  The
    guy I bought my shiny almost new boat from was envious that I'd be able
    to moor the boat rather than put up with trailering.  He should see it
    now.  Fuzzy green stuff below the waterline.  A brown crud line at the
    waterline.  Gross kaka on the outdrive and motor mount.  White salt
    crust above the waterline.  Horn and vent louvers starting to develop
    this greenish blue crud.  (What is it, I thought they were stainless
    steel?).  

    Anyone have an opinion on whether an unpainted bottom can survive about
    6 weeks in salt water (Labor Day->Oct 15) without damage. Cold (55deg) 
    water.
    
    

You'll likely get some slime and maybe a bit of grass and a barnacle or
two. Is this damage? 

    Cleanable with reasonable effort is the criteria I guess.
    
    One of the earlier notes in this topic suggests ruin of the boat if
    kept in saltwater too long without bottom paint.   Just looking for
    a sanity check.

re .32:

Barnacles (esp the little white round thingies) can be very difficult to 
remove. Pressure washing will remove slime and grass and loose bottom 
paint. You won't ruin your boat by leaving it in salt water with no 
bottom paint, but you will ruin the day or two you spend cleaning the 
bottom after hauling. 

    I assume we're dealing with fiberglass?  Is there any paint on the 
    boat?
    
    I frequently get a little too anxious at the beginning of the season
    to spead a beautiful boating day painting my Whaler.  As a result, 
    I've frequently launched the boat without painting it.  Usually there's
    some paint left from the last couple of years, but I remember one year
    when the paint was pretty thin, and quite bare in some spots.
    
    At the end of the summer I always regret not taking the time at the
    beginning of the summer to properly paint my boat.  Invariably, the 
    seaweed, algae, barnicles, etc are pretty thick.  But it all comes 
    off with a good scraping tool and some elbow grease.  And I leave it
    in salt water for 3+ months.
    
    Anne

    I have seen anti-fouling wax -- supposedly good for
    short-term protection.  It might be better than nothing,
    with very little application time.

    On the downside, if you subsequently want to paint the
    bottom completely removing the wax might be a chore.

    	- Lee

    
    I don't think you want to put it in for 6 weeks.  Recent experience on
    Waquoit Bay, Cape:  small fiberglass sail boat (someone elses) covered with 
    barnacles after 2 months; garden hose similarly covered (part hung
    off dock); my boat, slimed where waterline was painted incorrectly, after
    3 months (don't know why no barnacles formed).  My brother in law had
    quite a struggle scrapping off the barnacles, bur fortunately the boat
    was small.
    

    Well we have one vote for a minor slime wipeoff and another
    vote for a major barnacle problem.
    
    That's what I like about notes, you can always find the answer you're
    looking for.

    You'll have both.
    
    Ray

    Here's some interesting input on this subject.
    
    The owner's manual for recent Johnson outboards makes some pretty
    strong statements about the affect on performance of even a bit of
    bottom growth.  They claim that top speed of an unspecified size/weight
    boat w/3 people on board and a 35 hp motor went from 25 mph down to 21
    mph after just 10 days in salt water, and all the way down to 13 mph
    after 40 days.
    
    Now the troubleshooting section of this book is clearly biased toward
    making sure that you blame anything BUT the engine for poor
    performance, and the details of the "experiment" are spotty (like was
    it 85 degree water or not!) but if you believe it, you'd be nervous
    about putting an untreated hull in salt water for a weekend.
    
    The manual also didn't think too much of copper-based bottom paint, for
    not-clearly-stated reasons.   Maybe because the (illegal) tin stuff
    does a better job of keeping even the minor crud off?

    
    
                        -<TBTF>-
    
      Anybody out there know what the EPA ruling is
    
    concerning tin-based bottom paint?? Are there areas
    
    (waters) where it can be used or is it completely
    
    outlawed in US waters? The reason I ask...three years
    
    ago I painted using Interlux 64 red which is tin-based.
    
    Since then the paint has become unavailable in this area
    
    compliments of the EPA. I need to repaint, but nobody
    
    has a paint that even comes close to the color 64. I
    
    wrote Interlux and they say a new paint is on the way.
    
    Unfortunately, they're still waiting on EPA approval which
    
    could take over a year. The boat won't wait that long.
    
    Andy

I searched all the existing bottom painting topics and didn't come 
up with anything on bottom painting a fresh water boat.

We just picked up a 15' MFG, which my father will be keeping on a 
mooring at Lake Winnipesukee.  Normally I wouldn't even consider
painting the bottom and would just haul it whenever needed to wash 
the boat.  But the bottom's been painted already, and the paint looks
pretty shabby and needs another coat.  My questions:

- Are toxic bottom paints necessary for fresh water?  If I use a
  copper or tin based paint will it cause any harm to the friendly
  little critters in the lake?

- NH State laws?  Is it even legal to use a toxic paint in fresh water?

- What about an epoxy or teflon based bottom paint such as VC Liquid 
  Speed?  This is what I'm leaning toward.  I'd prefer not to poison 
  myself or the little fishies, and reduced friction would be a plus 
  since the boat is slightly underpowered.  Anyone have first hand 
  experience with this stuff?

Thanks,
Rick

    Have Zebra Mussels made their way to N.H.?  You will need to use a
    non-toxic bottom paint.  Others are against the law for fresh water
    in this area but you shouldn't need it anyways.  The water is too
    cold.  I would go to one of the major marine supply houses and tell
    them your exact requirement, ie: non-trailered, fiberglass but over
    existing paint, fresh water, etc.  They can tell you what will last
    longest.  Make sure they give you a paint that is compatible with
    what is already there.  You may need to find out from the previous
    owner what they used or be prepared to strip the existing paint off.
    I wonder why someone felt compelled to paint the bottom?
    Have fun! 
    Wayne

I called the BOAT/US product info line (800-365-7732), where they referred 
me to the Interlux product info line (800-468-7589).

Here's what Interlux told me, apparently there's no easy solution to my problem:

- Interlux'es VC Liquid Speed is non-toxic, but only comes in a translucent
  white which will not cover the existing blue bottom paint.

- Regular topcoat enamel is non-toxic (when dry), but is also not waterproof.
  It will absorb water then blister and peel when used below the waterline.

- Epoxy will work, but is also a strong solvent and will likely work as a
  very effective paint stripper when applied over the existing bottom paint.
  The woman I bought the boat from only owned it 2 years, and the existing
  paint is older than that, so I have no way of knowing what's on there.

Since I want to stay with a non-toxic paint, it's beginning to look more
like I'll have to strip the existing paint first then apply epoxy.  Any 
other suggestions?  What I thought would be a quick and easy 2 hour paint
job is getting to be a big project.   8^(

Rick

	Moved By Moderator
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              <<< VICKI::SIE$DATA0:[NOTES$LIBRARY]BOATS.NOTE;1 >>>
                               -<    Hit it!    >-
================================================================================
Note 900.0                     Anti fouling wax??                     No replies
DENVER::HEDRICK "I wanna go fishing!"                12 lines  28-AUG-1991 13:22
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I have a small dilemma.  I live at a lake and my boat bottom has scum
    all over it.  I took the boat outta the water a month ago and cleaned
    the scum off.  Now it's back.  I have heard there is some kind of stuff
    called anti-fouling agent????  I called M & E and they told me all they
    had was anti-fouling paint.  And, it came in red, black, blue.  My boat
    bottom is white (when it is clean).  I think all I want is some kind of
    wax that keeps the scum off.  Refer me to wherever if this is discussed
    elsewhere.
    
    Thanks,
    
    Glenn

    
    Glenn,
    
    	I don't know if a wax exists which is designed for "Scum
    Protection"... But I have noticed that the bottom of my boat
    is *much* easier to clean if the bottom has been waxed recently.
    My boat is also moored in fresh water and the brown scum gets
    pretty heavy after just a few weeks, but a quick wipe, while
    it's still wet when I pull the boat out removes 99% of it.
    
    	Sometimes I'll take a first pass at the scum while the boat's
    still in the water, before I pull it.
    
    Rick
    
    BTW: Yeah, I know the term "scum protection" sounds like a topic
    for the Singles notesfile, huh?

    There is certainly an anti-fouling wax product.  Although I
    haven't seen it since I lived in Florida.  It wouldn't
    suprise me to find in at Jamestown Distributors...

    Regarding the previous, do you wax the bottom, or just the
    hull?  I thought waxing the bottom would bleed off speed...

    	Lee

    
    re: Lee,
    
    	Yeah, I wax the entire boat... hull, deck and bottom.. I never
    noticed any decrease in speed.. always 44 MPH... Wax, no wax(1st day
    out in 1987), 1 skier, 9 skiers... 44 Mph...
    
    	May depend upon the boat...??
    
    Rick

RE: Rick ... 44 MPH and 9 skiers, eh?  Let's see, I think I can dig up 9 ropes,
9 surf/kneeboards and 9 idiots to try 9 footers behind the Nautique.  I wanna
see it stay at 44 when we all plant our feet!  :-)

FYI, my cousin's '87 Nautique can hold at just about 40 MPH (full throttle) when
towing the 3-man barefoot pyramid that you saw in our ski show.

RE: Jim ... I suspected you used full strength.  OK, this weekend just may be
a test for my boat.

...Roger...

    
    I'm just about ready to order some paint stuff from M&E as I will be
    painting my 14' fiberglass boat.  I have read quite a bit about the
    subject and think I'm almost ready to take on this challenge.  I do
    however still have a couple questions lingering...
    
    1) I plan to paint the bottom with Interlux BottomKote.  However, the
    description states that this paint can be applied up to 60 days before
    launching.  Is this true?  Am I reading this correctly?  Assuming that
    I get to paint this boat in April, I don't want to wait until July to
    launch it!  What are my options if any?
    
    2) I read some info regarding water-lines, anti-fouling paint and all
    that kind of stuff.  This question may really show you just how much I
    don't know about boating, but I've got to ask it.  Given that my boat
    will probably never see the ocean and will mostlikely be out of the
    water more than it is in, what's the big deal?  I plan on painting the
    ENTIRE bottom with BottomKote without notice or caring of the
    water-line.  Is this a problem?
    
    Thanks
    -(dan)

    If I read your question correctly you dont need to paint your
    bottom at all.  If the boat is used in fresh water and not kept
    in the lake all season you should see little or no buildup of
    pond-scum.  You will get some staining but if you stay on top of
    it when the boat is out of the water it'll stay nice and clean.
    
    If you leave it in the water for long periods of time you may get
    a layer of slime but that too is easily removed with some elbow grease
    and chemicals at the end of the season. (see other notes about
    chemicals vs brute force required).  At its worst it's alot less
    expensive and trouble than painting.
    

RE: Note 323.49
>> However, the description states that this paint can be applied up 
>> to 60 days befor launching.  Is this true?  Am I reading this correctly?
>> Assuming that I get to paint this boat in April, I don't want to wait 
>> until July to launch it!

The key words here are *CAN BE*, not *HAS TO BE*.  They are suggesting that
you launch within 60 days for the bottom paint to have maximum effectiveness.
If you wait too long, the paint will dry out and lose some of its anti-fouling
properties.  You can paint the bottom and launch the next day if you want.

But as Tom pointed out in the previous note, if you're a fresh water boater,
and the boat will spend more time on the trailer than in the water, you
don't even need bottom paint.  Bottom paint is expensive, needs yearly
maintenance which is more work than a good scrubbing, and slows the boat
down.  The only reason you should paint the bottom is if the existing gelcoat
is trashed. And in that case, you could try a 2-part epoxy which is intended
for below water use, like Pettit Polypoxy.  It has an excellent shine so 
it will clean easily and won't need to be redone each year.

Just MHO...

Rick

    After many months (and $$$'s) replacing the tranny in the Century, I'm
    almost ready to launch.  I'm struggling with if I'm going to repaint
    the wooden bottom this year or not.  I priced the paint I used last
    time (Interlux Micron CSC copper based).  At $114 per gallon (300
    sq.ft), I'm wondering if it's really needed for a boat that I will
    probably trailer this season rather than keeping at my friends dock on
    Lake Monomanac.  Does painting help to protect the wood at all or is it
    meant to prevent growth, etc?  If I don't allow the wood to swell, will
    the caulking all fall out sooner or later?  Is there a cheaper paint
    suitable for what I will be doing?  Will speed improve or suffer from
    no paint?  FYI, Micron CSC is described as a "hard finish formula" that
    remains active when left out of water.
    Thanks, Wayne

    I have a wooden boat which I trailer.  Any good quality boat paint
    which is designed for even topsides use will do in my experience.
    Inhibititing marine grown doesn't count since the boat is out more
    than in.
    
    I think painting the wood regularly is important to protect the 
    wood.  But if the bottom has no bare spots this year, I would let
    it go another year.
    
    Jeff

    Micron is kinda too good for lake use...  if your trailering this
    
    season, just leave it alone.
    
    JIm.

    For those of you who havn't had the pleasure of painting the
    bottom,
    
    there is another source of paint.
    
    George w. Kirby paint co,  New Bedford Ma.
    
    red $36.  blue $44.
    
    price is good, i've used it in the past on other boats,
    
    it works. But, it needs to be done each yr.
    
    As for me, i'll stay with Micron.
    
    JIm

    Moved by moderator.  Also see notes 121 and 640.
    
================================================================================
Note 1035.0               seeking info on bottom paint                No replies
CFSCTC::ROWE                                         27 lines   6-JAN-1993 11:25
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
	This past fall my partner and I bought a used 16' fiberglass
	boat. This boat has never seen salt water, however we plan
	to exclusively use it in salt water this upcoming summer.
	The question's I have pertain to the quanity, and quality
	of bottom paint. One more thing, the bottom of this boat has never been
	painted before.

	1. What brand's of bottom paint are considered good?

	2. How much paint will I need for a 16' boat?

	3. Is there any specific kind of bottom paint that
	   I should look for, considering the boat will be 
	   moored in the ocean all summer long? 

	4. Any special additives, or compounds that should 
	   comprise the paint?

	5. How often should the bottom paint be applied?

	6. What is the cost of bottom paint?	

	
		Will Appreciate any information here.

		thanks
		-tom-

Clean the bottom with acetone or some other recommended cleaner to remove the
mold release agent.  I was told that this should be done even on a used boat that
was never painted.  I guess traces of this stuff can be around for years.

Then lightly scuff sand the bottom

Then apply a primer/bonder

Then two coats of bottom paint.

I used the cheap Interlux about $20 quart and the interlux primer.  It has worked
well for me for the past 4-5 years.  I leave my boat in the Merrimack in 
Newburyport all season and have no growth on the bottom.  Washing with hose or
pressure washing takes any scum off.

My boat is 22' and one quart is just enough for one coat.  I repaint the bottom
every year, although this year I'm going to try just touchup.

However, If I was going to do this again, I would get one of the harder bottom
paints that last longer and have less drag.  Maybe teflon based or something like
that.

I would be interested in what others use and how often they paint the bottom.

Gordon

    We have used Micron CSC by Interlux for a couple of years on a 32ft
    sailboat and have been satisfied.  It's pricey, but seemed to do a 
    better job of inhibiting growth than other paints we had seen used by
    boats around us.  As people who are more expert than I will tell you,
    alot depends on where your boat will be moored i.e. swift river
    and tidal currents or slow moving baywater.  These things all affect
    hull growth.
    
    Also, for REpainting, we found a way to take some of the pain out of
    the process last year when my friend (owner of the boat) bought an
    aircompressor with a sandblaster attachment.  We found that with the right
    settings, we could easily remove only bottom paint that had started to 
    flake, leaving "good" paint intact, allowing us to do a pretty effective 
    touchup coat as opposed to "grinding" the old paint off with a sander and 
    repainting the whole thing. 

    What's the best choice for bottom paint in this situation;
    
    Wooden boat with a good coat of bottom paint still on (could be painted 
    over without stripping paint IMO, paint type unknown.)
    
    Boat is out of the water more than in.
    
    Bunk-style trailer.
    
    I've considered copper-based paint, but due to it's toxicity and cost,
    (and probably not having need of it's anti-fouling properties) I'm
    not sure it is the best choice. I've read enamel is usable, but I don't
    know if a special type is needed or not.
    
    Any advice would be appriciated.
    
    Bill
    
    

    I have a wooden boat which is mostly out of the water.  I use a good 
    grade (INTERLUX is one) marine topside paint on the bottom.  I have
    had no problems with it.
    
    Jeff

	My wooden boat was always painted with anti-fouling paint because 
	it lived in the salt water.   Then I got it, and it now lives mostly 
	on my trailer, about 70 miles from the ocean.  So my concerns are just 
	looks and protection, not anti-fouling, under similar conditions to
	yours.
	
	I scraped + sanded off the loose stuff (not too fussy about it), 
	painted the bottom with urethane enamel, and haven't had any problems.  
	It stuck, looks good, and it's pretty durable.  Also inexpensive.

	/Ken

    The last time I painted mine, I used Petit Hard Finished Copper Bronze
    Racing Bottom (not anti-fouling). Boat is kept on trailer. I have been
    thinking of repainting mine but have not been able to locate that paint
    in any catalogs. I too am interested in answers. 
    	Along the same lines, does anyone have any suggestions on how to
    remove the trailor with the boat jacked up so the bottom can be
    painted? I would like to paint the keelson area which is blocked by the
    trailor drawbar (old Holsclaw). I also have to replace the aluminum
    coping or band that is attached to the bow, just below the winch eye to
    4 or 5' back on the keelson. The boat is a (circa 1958) 16' HiLiner in
    excellent shape otherwise. I want the "cradle" to be safe when I lay
    underneath it!
    
    Earle

    We went the other way (from blocks onto a trailer) but it should be the
    same.  We used 6 jackstands to raise the bow enogh to get it on the
    trailer, and then just pulled the trailer under the boat, slowly.  
    
    You could raise the stern with 2 jackstands.  block it up with railroad 
    ties or something equally large.  and slowly drive the trailer out from
    under it, using jackstands and blocks on the way out.
    
             

    I've decided to keep my boat at a slip next year (tired of trailering),
    and will have to paint the bottom.Could one of you old salts give me
    a ballpark figure on the cost to bottom paint a 20' I/O boat?
    
    
                                                    thanks, Joe

    I get 2 coats on my 24' from a gallon.  look for sales in the spring. 
    you'll probably need 1-2 qts.  the paint i've been using runs
    $80-150/gal, but i payed something like $70 for a gal last year at
    baert on sale.

    .6 Thanks for the info.Maybe you can also help with these questions
     
       1. What do i need or what brands are preferable?
    
       2. What would it cost to have it done (marine shop,marina)?
    
    
                                                       Joe
    

    
    Brands depend on where you're keeping it.  on a lake or in some waters
    you can go with a cheaper and less toxic brand.  In hampton harbor
    where I am, nothing keeps the bottom clean, so I go with a good one
    that's not too expensive.  This past spring a few boating magazines had
    articles on bottom paint brands etc.  may want to head to a library and
    poke around.  FWIW, this year i used woolsey.
    
    I don't know what it would cost to have someone do it.  Is this the
    first time painting it?  If so some things need to be done that should
    probably be done by a marina.    

    One way to find out what works.  Is to go the the mariana where you
    will be keeping the boat and ask the people what paint they are using.
    
    The other factor in paint choice is the amount of yearly maintence. 
    Some of the newer paints are ablative and do not have to be removed
    after several years of build up.  The one I have been using is MICRON
    CSC. Works well in Hingham harbor.   Typical new boat usage is dewax 
    the hull then paint with a fiberglass primer.  Don't skip this step.  
    Then paint the bottem with a contrasting color from the hull and finail 
    coats. Such as blue or green on a white hull followed by 2 coats of black. 
    Then each year.  Haul the boat, pressure wash it in the fall.  in the
    spring wipe it down with brushing thinner. then put a new coat on. 
    With two coats on the waterline.  Lifting strakes etc.  The paint will
    dissolve at a rate of about one coat per season.  Total time I spent on
    bottem prep for a 31 ft boat including new zinc's about 5 hours.  The
    big thing is NO sanding of old bottem paint.
    
    If the paint is getting too thick.  then just touch up the bare spots
    and pressure wash prior to putting the boat in and wear it off.  Much
    better than having the sand/remove the old paint every 3-5 years.
    
    Oh ask your friends to help  paint the bottom.  This will find out
    who is a real friend :-) :-)    

    A couple of comments:
    Even if you keep it on a trailer, a good "bottom" paint will
    preserve the finish much better over the long run (I've been there)!
    
    I'd suggest one of the HARD finish products. Check with the supplier
    and they can give you a comparison of hardness, Etc.
    
    For a 20' boat, you will probably need 2 qts for a first time job, and a
    quart each year for resurfacing.
    
    Good luck!
    

        I have been restoring a 22" Starcraft Islander and am now at the hull
        painting prep stage. The previous owner painted copper anti-fouling
        paint on the bottom. I will be trailering ths boat and want to remove
        the copper paint. This is an aluminum boat.
    
        Any suggestions on removing this stuff other than good old elbow
        grease?
    
        Thanks
    
    John

 Instead of elbo grease, I used a whire wheel on a power drill, they make the
 wheels in variuos sizes. Arm yourself with GOOD safety goggles and a mask
 should be much quicker,,,

 _ Dave

    I tried some paint stripper last night and it seems to work pretty
    well. A lot less dust than sanding or wire brush.
    
    It's going to take a while though.
    
    John
    

    get some bottom paint stripper from a marine store. The CSC and Petit
    brands are very good. I smoked through 11 layers on my boat with only
    two coats. Carefully on fibreglas, it stuff is strong....

Hi All,

I have a 22' that I bought used last year.  The previous owner had bottom painted it since 
he kept it on a mooring.  I, on the other hand, only trailer it.  My problem is that the paint 
is wearing/flaking off and rather than take it all off and clean it up nice and spiffy I'd 
rather just repaint it (black if it matters) so it looks good.   

The author of .69 suggested a urethane enamel on a wooden boat.  Is that a good thing 
on a fiberglass boat that already has some old bottom paint on it ?

 The author of .70 suggested a Racing Bottom type paint.  While this is presumably 
slippier I'm not interested in pure performamce and squeezing the last 1 mph out of this 
beast.  I'm primarily a fisher and diver so I'm usually just interested in getting somewhere 
in a reasonable amount of time :-)

So, any recommendations for the cheapest, best solution ?

Thanks for any help,

Peter.

    Ain't much that is going to stick to bottom paint for long, esspecially
    if the old paint is a sloughing type. Even hard bottom paints are very
    soft, else they couldn't do their job. Suggest you strip it if you
    are going to keep it a while. Petit fibre-glas bottom paint remover is
    real good at this once the temps get above 45.  there are also the
    environmental strippers at about 3-4 times the price that work over
    night. Figure about 10-15 hours of labor to do a perfect job. Time
    depends on number of layers of old paint. Sometimes you have to make 2
    passes to get it all off (I stripped 11 coats in 2 passes off my boat
    when I bought it).
    
    Sanding is a pain unless you are going to refinish the bottom as you
    need to use a really course grit to  keep the grit from clogging.  The
    lobstermen in Maine show up about a week before season starts with an
    industrial belt sander, some negative number grit sandpaper, a can of the
    cheapest bottom paint, and a can of exterior house latex. They take 1/4" of
    oak out with the old bottom paint, slap on a new coat, and then paint
    the sides with the house paint. Cheap & effective, but it looks it 
    close up....   and I will not comment on how they float em.....

re: .83

>    Ain't much that is going to stick to bottom paint for long, esspecially
>    if the old paint is a sloughing type. Even hard bottom paints are very
>    soft, else they couldn't do their job. Suggest you strip it if you
>    are going to keep it a while. Petit fibre-glas bottom paint remover is
>    real good at this once the temps get above 45.  there are also the
>    environmental strippers at about 3-4 times the price that work over
>    night. Figure about 10-15 hours of labor to do a perfect job. Time
>    depends on number of layers of old paint. Sometimes you have to make 2

Even though I think there are very few layers there (maybe even only 1) it sounds
like I'd rather just paint over than go thru all that effort.  Especially since
I'd probably have to then do some refinish work to the whole bottom (for how many
more hours of effort ?).

So, any recommendations for a cheap paint with more staying (on the boat, not
growth preventative) power ?

>    Sanding is a pain unless you are going to refinish the bottom as you
>    need to use a really course grit to  keep the grit from clogging.  The

My point exactly.  Even though I love my boat I didn't buy it as a 'labor of
love' :-)  It's a tool or a means to an end (that I'll keep in good shape as
any tool deserves) but I don't want to waste weekends keeping it really spiffy...

Thanks for the reply !

Peter.

 I'd agree with -2 on this one. If you plan on keeping the boat and trailering
 it, it would be MUCH better in the long run to take it off. Even if you have
 to sand it/buff it. Then its just wax it and go. Everytime you take it out
 of the water, hose the bottom. In the long run waxing a few times a year
 as oppose to repainting ever year is better in my book.

 The operative words here are "plan on keeping it"

 If you plan on moving up/onward in a couple of years than do what's easy and 
 best for you. Then, you can let someone else worry about later.

 -Dave

 

re: .85

I stopped by the marina over the weekend after I left the boat show to further refresh my 
memory regarding the paints' condition.  I can just about flake off all the old paint with a 
flimsy plastic tool or a stiff brush...  After it comes off it leaves dirty smudges that also 
look like they'll come off with some elbow grease.

Ok, even though I'll still upgrade as soon as possible (to a bigger boat) it looks like I'll 
try to get it all off, polish and then wax.  Good thing that another discussion has started 
up regarding that very subject... :-)

Thanks for the helpful discussion,

Peter.