Conference vicki::boats

    Bill,
    
      I am not a ski boat expert, but I have seen some larger Thompsons
    on the ocean and cosemtically they look niice and I have never heard
    anything bad about them. A question on the engine. A 265 HP mercruiser
    is a strange size to me. I have seen 260 (350 block), 230 (305 block)
    and 190 and 165 HP not sure of those block sizes expect that they
    are four bangers. Is that 265 a 260 or 165? The 260 is a lot of
    engine for a 19' bowrider, I had a 21'chris cuddy with a 230 and
    that was better than a 40 mph boat. Your bow rider will have a much
    flatter hull than did my chris and will go faster so I would think
    a 260 is over doing it. An 8' beam is pretty much standard on
    boats around 20'. The trailer regs used to allow only 8' beams
    to be trailered but it has gone up to 8'6 now. You did not say if
    you were planning on trailering or if you had a vehicle that could
    pull 2-4k pounds. This is an exellent time to
    buy, since the 89's are comming in like crazy and the dealers want
    to get the 88's of their books. Low ball any offers and work up.
    The dealer is only going to see 1-2 or two people with cash in
    hand until the boat shows roll around in a month. Then the advantage
    swings back their way.
    
    Good luck.
    
    Capt. Codfish

>>  Must have been my lucky day. He told me that he had a 1988 Thompson
>>  190 BR Cutlass that had been used as is demo unit last summer. It
>>  had 25 hrs. on a MerCruiser (sp) 265 HP I/O that was fully warranted for two
>>  years (parts and labor). Boat was 19'2" in length with an 8' beam

>>  He also told me that the boat would easily pull two good size skiers,
>>  handle well in rough water, do approximately 40-45MPH, and that

>>  However, I am not sure how to go about finding out how Thompsons/
>>  MerCruisers stack up against the competition,

Bill,
Sounds like you've stumbled across a pretty good deal, depending on the
what the final negotiated price is and assuming it's in your price range.
Thompson has been around longer than dirt, and has an excellent reputation.
The same goes for the Mercruiser.

The 265 I/O will EASILY pull two skiers.  One of the biggest mistakes
first time buyers make is to buy a boat that is underpowered; this one
is definitely not.  A friend of mine has a 20 foot Four Winns cuddy with 
a 175 Mercruiser and it will do better than 40 mph.  The Thompson is a
smaller boat and has 90 more hp, so the dealer may be under-estimating
the top speed.  If this will be a family boat the Thompson probably
has more top end than you'll ever need, but the extra power is nice if
you've got a full load of people and gear.  It will also have a better
resale value.

As far as options, the basic items would include things like life jackets,
anchor and line, fenders, flare kit, dock lines, and fire extinguisher.
Not quite as necessary but nice to have are a depth finder or fish finder
with a depth readout, VHF radio, and a mooring cover.  If the dealer won't
budge enough on the price try to get him to throw in some of these options.

Don't worry about him having the upper hand on you.  This is winter and
he's got an '88 demo he wants to sell!  If you know what you want and will
hold out for the right deal then you've got the upper hand on him.

Good luck,
Rick W.

    
    You did not mention a couple of things.
    
    What size fresh water. 
    How serious are you about skiing.
    How many people are going to be in the boat.
    
    The boat you are talking about would be a good family boat on 
    a large lake.  Can carry all the folks, and throw a skier in the
    water.
    
    On a small lake say 2000 acres, it is a bit large, but just the
    ticket for a larger lake.  Say Sebago, Long Lake, Thompson, Winni,
    Champlain.
    
    Serious skiers are going to find it has a big wake.  The trickers
    and kneeboarders might have a good time.
    
    I hope you have a good tow vehicle like a big Blazer or full size
    Bronco.  That rig is going to weigh about 3000 lbs with the
    trailer.  Should have at least a 5L engine to pull it.
    
    Don't forget the trailer brakes for that rig.
    
    You might want to look at about a 17 foot Gastron or similar bow rider
    with about a 135 outboard.  The trailer rig will weigh about half of
    the I/O, and might be a better ski boat for you.  It will not be
    as good a rough water boat, but do you want to cruise rough water
    or ski? 
    
    I think the concensus of the serious skiers is an outboard, or a
    straight inboard.  The I/O puts alot of weight in the stern and
    works against good starts and acceleration.
           
    Don

    
    Oh boy, I goofed on the engine size. Capt. Codfish was right, it's
    not a 265, it's a 165 - big difference. I knew that when I wrote
    the note but it slipped right past me. Sorry.
    
    Maybe the 40MPH range is about right then after all, but I didn't
    know about an I/O vs "straight inboard" differences. Thanks. From
    what I've heard, an outboard will generally give me better performance for
    less HP (depending on the hull shape) and allow for better interior
    space. Right? I kept asking about outboards and he kept telling
    me that the performance difference is almost eliminated by a price
    difference - outboards cost more?!
    
    As far as use goes, I expect to use it almost exclusively up at
    Thompson lake in Otisfield ME. The plan right now is to put it
    in the lake in the Spring and take it out in the Fall and/or for
    maintenance. (Sorry, any skiing I do in December doesn't involve
    a boat.)
    
    The reason I am interested in rough water handling is that I am told
    that Thompson can get pretty rough at times and if my wife starts
    getting afraid of being on the lake, the boat is likely to have
    a very short life expectancy in our family at least.
    
    Towing is a big issue, but I didn't want to bring it up in the base
    note and confuse things. I have a real problem there as neither
    or our cars (an old SAAB and small MAZDA) have the capacity to tow
    ~3000 lbs (Boat & trailer). I figure the SAAB is due for replacement
    in a year or so, and while I don't know whether I can go the Blazer
    route, a basic pickup might be possible. I don't have a short term
    strategy as of yet, but I won't need one if the boat isn't worth
    buying.
    
    Outside of lazing speed, does the 165 engine change any of your
    previous opinions?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Bill
    
    
    

    
    Am familiar with Thompson.  I teach a little seaplane flying from
    time to time in the area.  Our camp is about 10 miles north on 
    Pennessawassee (Norway Lake if you are in a hurry).  Have freinds
    at the south end of the lake that also have an amphib.
    
    I would go for a lighter boat to ski on Thompson.  Even my 16 foot
    Glastron with a 90 Merc is seaworth enough for skiing Thompson and
    getting stuck when the wind comes up.  But I would probable opt
    for a 135 OB on a 17 or 18 ft bow rider.  The next step is right to
    an inboard skiboat.  You have to make the tradeoff skiing or cruising
    in rough water.  When the wind and rough water comes up - it is
    time for the wind surfer.
    
    Check with White's marine in Norway Maine, he sells a lot of boats
    that wind up on Thompson.  He handles Glastron, Starcraft and 
    Mercury.  He has put together some packages that seem to be the
    right size for what you are looking for.  His whole family are avid
    skiers, and even if you don't buy from him, the conversation is probable
    worth while.  I tried to talk him into carrying Mastercraft, but
    he is not _that_ serious about skiing.
    
    Don't worry about loosing a good deal there is no shortage of boats.
    Just walk into any dealer and see how they climb all over you. 
                             
    Don
    

    Just to give you a point of reference on price of the thompson,
    Gauch Bros. (i know, i know) is quoting 12K for an 89 17'Stingray
    bowrider with the 165 hp, mooring cover, etc., trailer. This model
    is very deep compared to 16' footers and is rated to hold 8 people.
    
    Weight with trailer is + or - 2800lbs.
    
    I believe the Stingray is a good boat, but don't know how it compares
    to Thompson.
    
    Just wanted to give a point of reference on a similar boat, same
    motor, year newer and a firm quote.
    
    Happy hunting

    Just a quick i/o versus outboard comparison for you. Again I am
    not a ski boat expert and it sounds as though the o/b is better
    for skiing than an i/o because of the wake. But anyway, an o/b is
    a 2 cycle engine that burns a gas oil mix depending on model you
    may have to mix yourself but many of the new larger o/b's have
    oil injection, so no mixing. As a result of being a 2 cycle engine,
    o/b tend to be noisier and stink. They are also lighter in weight
    and give more speed per hp. In an o/b your have a cut out transome
    which can pose problems when backing down of in a following sea.
    On the other hand the i/o is a four cycle engine (like your car)
    and burns only gas with oil in the crank case. It is quieter running 
    and does not stink like an o/b. It is a heavyier engine which also
    leads to a more solid feeling in the aft end of your boat. You end
    up with less speed per h/p but I argue (personal opinion  here)
    that the only time the gas milage is worse is when you run it flat
    out. At idle the i/o is definitly more efficient. With an i/o
    you have a full transome but you will also have an engine box. How
    the engine box is used will vary boat to boat and may have a major
    impact on your choice of boat. A creative design will make use of
    the box and you may actually consider it an asset not a liability.
    Price wise i/o are more expesive than o/b but I would concentrate
    on you entire package price. 
    
    Hope this quick summary helps, I have left out my opinion as to which
    I like and hopefully only put in the 'facts'.
    
    Capt. Codfish

    I looked up some used prices last night -- the closest I
    could get to the boat you're interested in was a 1987
    Thompson 185 Cutlass BR.  With the MerCruiser 165, the
    average RETAIL on the boat (w/engine) is $10,700 - $12,200.
    Add $1590 for trailer, and the average RETAIL for the package
    is $12,290 - $13,790.

    Empty, the above boat with engine weighs 2200 lbs.  Add the
    weight of the trailer, fuel and junk in the boat and I would
    expect your towed weight would be around 3000 lbs.


    	- Lee

    re .7	I think the hull design has a lot more effect on the
    wake than the motor type.  Outboards WILL usually pull a skier up
    quicker/easier than an I/O, they can often be left unwinterized
    later into the season too, since they don't hold any water in the
    block {right Don ?}.

    	R
    

             
    re .9
    Right Reg - I finally put mine away 13-DEC, after the last use on
    7-DEC.  Next year will probably be closer to Thanksgiving though.
    I couldn't get it started to fog it, the temps went down to single
    digits that weekend.
    
    The Mastercraft dealer up in Burlington Vermont was intending to
    ski Newyears Day - he was going to use an outboard.  Don't
    know if he did it, as the temp only got up to about 18 in the heat of
    the day.  Freezing spray - I think I can pass on that.
    
    I think it is interesting to note that most of the Dolefin
    supporters were folks that had put them on I/Os to get going
    faster.
    
    Don

    I want to thank everyone for their responses and outside offers
    of assistence. I've decided, based on the information I've picked
    up, that while this may indeed be a pretty good boat, that I should wait.
    
    The main reason is that it sounds like 19' may be a bit large for
    my immediate needs and unless I'd be interested in trailoring it
    around and using it on lakes other than Thompson, I'd be better
    off with something smaller for starters. 
    
    So, the plan will be to check out some of the dealers in the Windham/
    Norway area and (hopefully), the Worcester show. I'll be looking
    at 16-17' with sufficient HP to ski with and picking up as much
    information as possible. Hopefully, after a few years of use, I'll
    know what I like/don't like in a boat and start looking to trade
    up. 
    
    Who knows, maybe I'll find a good deal on a 19' Thompson ;^)
    
    Thanks to all.
    
    Bill