Conference vicki::boats

    
    Please give us some more info.
    
    Type of boat  (open/closed bow, length, hull type)
    Size of engine
    Type/size of prop
    Number of people in boat
    Number of skis on feet/feets
    
    /Mike Smith
    

    Yes, also, is he trying to ski, or just swimming? Did you offer
    him a ladder???
    
    Mike
    

    Tell that supper is ready! :^)
    
    
    Paul

    Potentially difficult problem, depending on attitude. I used to teach
    water skiing in a boys' camp, and have started many, many people for
    the first time. Here are some thoughts in no particular order. 
    
    1. Try some dry-land exercises. Get him in the skis, and block the tips
    so they won't slide. Then use the tow rope to simulate a shallow (not
    deep) water start. Knees bent, not leaning forward, and let the
    (simulated) boat pull him up. Don't really try to stand up. 
    
    2. A boat driver experienced with starting other beginners is a big
    help. Speed control is critical, and the beginning skier doesn't know
    if he is going too fast or too slow. It all seems too fast for most
    people. A second person to help hold the skis and the rope straight at
    the start helps too. And do the starts in shallow water, like 2-3 feet. 
    
    3. Don't try more than 5 times in a row. It takes too much energy, and
    the chances of success go WAY down. The repeated failures also sap the
    willpower.
    
    3. Has this become a "big deal" so that everybody watching says, or he
    thinks they are saying, "What's wrong with you?" If so, have somebody
    else work with him out of sight of your family. Like get him invited
    over to a friend's house for a weekend without the obvious purpose of
    learning how to ski. 
    
    4. Can he snow ski? If so, it shouldn't take more than 5 tries to get
    him up. If it does, there is something odd going on.
    
    5. Attitude. Does he tend to be physically aggresive or passive in
    other sports? Aggressiveness helps, but you can't teach that; you can
    only compensate. Does he want to do this, or is he being pushed into
    it? You have to be very careful to separate your wishes from his. And
    it's sometimes an ego blow to the parent coming to grips with this one. 
    
    6. Is he a very weak swimmer? If so, even with a life jacket, being
    uncomfortable in the water saps a lot of physical and psychic energy
    away from the skiing. How about swimming lessons at the Y instead? That
    might be useful for safety reasons alone. 

    Maybe somebody from this conference would be willing to help. 

      I have often found that with a young beginner it is easier for
    them to get used to a knee board if they are having trouble with
    skiis. It gives them the feeling of being pulled behind the boat,
    they still have to hold the rope, but it takes away the element
    of having to pay attention to the ski tips and balance. Though
    it still takes some balance to control the knee board, it is much
    easier for a kid, and you can keep the boat at a slower speed. 
    Now, when the youngster has that under control, I have found that
    the transition to skiis is much ealier, 'cause they have experience
    and not as likely to give up and let go. Many kids are beaten before
    they even get started if they think that they can't do it, if you
    have access to a knee board, you can use it as a stepping stone
    to skiing.
    
      Is this the Jim Duffy from Fitchburg? I saw the new boat in front
    of the house, it looks pretty nice.
    
    
    Paul
    

    Well the Brits are back - ?
    
    Here goes.
    
    I have never ever pulled a youngster up behind a boat but have
    been with others who have successfully taught their youngsters to
    ski.
    
    The most important aspect of this sport is to make it fun and not
    to push people into it.  I have always found that people who either
    snow or water ski think that everyone should like it and be successful
    at it. (Obsessively so!)  (Guilty as charged)
    
    It is very important to allow the kids to get used to the water
    and if possible to play on tubes, ski bobs, kneeboards before going
    on to the hardest part skiing.
    
    I have seen several people try to teach small adults on skiis that are
    far to big and therefore makes it impossible for the youngsters to
    balance. If your son is so light make sure he has skiis that are suited
    to him (Adult skiis wont work).  Also try tying or bolting the skiis to
    gether. We have found this a succesful method of getting people up on
    to skiis.
    
    Someone in the water balancing them is also a bonus.  It gives them
    confidence. 
    
    Also the amount of power required is negligable.  Be carefull, they
    could be scared very easily.  They might not admit it.  I have seen a
    cousin (adult) who paid to be taught while on holiday suffer from this
    and last weekend we actually got her out of the water for the first
    time.  She now loves it.  I would love to get my hands on the driver
    who's that reckless. 
    
    Anyway That is all I have to say,  make it fun and don't push to
    hard.  I am sure that if you follow the previous replys you will
    eventually get him on top of the water.
    
    Regards
    Roger Reading
    
    (Crying my heart out cause my trailer is broken and I might not get out
    on the water this weekend) 

    re .6
    
    	Welcome back Roger...from across the pond. Rick S and I thought
    we losted you in the SAMIAM to VICKI switch - sorry about that...
    
    							-mike-

    Thanks for the Welcome its nice to back in the land of the living
    again.  Working at DEC was getting boring not reading this notesfile.
    
    Regards
    Roger R.

    re .0	A couple of other tips:-
    
    a)	Let someone else try teaching him, sometimes instruction from
    parents just doesn't get through, maybe a similar age friend could
    help.
    
    b)	If you're reasonably near to Marlborough Mass maybe he could
    come out with my kids sometime ?

    c)	If he's getting absolutely nowhere with it follow Tom's suggestions
    first, then just try trolling him along at idle speed until he gets
    the knack of keeping the ski tips straight/parallel/the right distance
    out of the water.  Don't rush him into yelling  "Hit it", just troll
    around.
    
    d)	I was having a LOT of trouble coming up on one ski.  I'd been
    told that my boat didn't have enough power (only a 140) OBVIOUSLY
    since it was dragging me 1/2 mile without getting itself on a plane.
    I had the ski far too vertical, the person who diagnosed this said
    about 80 degrees, clearly I was NEVER going to come up at that kind
    of angle.  I don't know what the right angle should be, but I've
    found it by tucking the rear leg up really tight and consciously
    pointing the toe of the front leg forward, I'd guess its ~45 degrees.
    This seems so obvious and stupid now that its tough to admit to (even here).

    	Reg
    

    Re .9:
    
    Yeah, 45 degrees would be reasonable. The instruction "Pull the skies
    under you and sit on your heels" will be more effective. Getting
    somebody in the water to help manage the start will work even better. 
    
    Nobody should feel bad about how long it took them to get up the first
    time or how "stupid" they were at missing something that is later seen
    to be obvious.
    
    I got up on skis the first time the summer between 7th and 8th grades.
    My brother was the boat driver. He "knew" how it should be done since
    he had maybe 25 rides. His theory was to go as fast as possible as
    soon as possible. "There is less drag that way." Everytime I fell over
    in some new way. "What's wrong with you? I got up on the third try." 
    
    We compounded the problem by having a nylon tow rope. (Don't EVER get
    one!) Very stretchy. The boat starts, the drag from the skier stretches
    the rope without pulling the skier much. When the rope is finally
    stretched a lot (and the boat is going fairly fast) but the skier
    hasn't moved much, all of a sudden the skier is very strongly
    accelerated. One of two things happens: the skier gets jerked out of
    the water and is up, or the skier gets jerked out of the water, falls
    and lets go of the rope. Now all of the stretch comes out of the rope
    and the handle goes flying up to the boat. On a couple of occasions,
    the handle has hit the bow! (Yes, this is for real. I'm not merely
    trying to make a good story.) On one occasion, the driver caught the
    handle. This is obviously dangerous for the boat occupants.
    
    So, don't use a stretchy rope (the braided poly stuff really was a
    tremendous advance over nylon and hemp), and get a boat driver who
    knows what he is doing. Who is a skier and really knows, not one who
    just says he has done it before.
    
    I have a tremendous sympathy for kids who have trouble getting started.
    I've been there, and 33 years later I still remember it in great and
    gory detail. It's supposed to be fun. It is fun! But it can be spoiled
    at the very beginning.
    
    I'll help anybody who wants it in return for a ride or two. My boat
    isn't in the water this summer. 

    
    All of us kids (when we were kids) hated waterskiing!  We had 
    complete access to the sport and refused to have anything to do
    with it....for various reasons.  
    
    Kids will learn when they're ready to learn.  You can help them
    develop a liking to the sport by encouragement and not putting
    pressure on them.  Waterskiing is a scary sport to kids, not only
    are they going to worry about what will happen when they fall, but
    there's the possibility of drowning as well.  
    
    My neighbor started his son skiing at 3 years old...having the right
    equipment and knowing how to teach kids made it possible for his
    son to learn without fear at such an early age.  
                                     
    

    
    	We have sort of learned by discovery, listened to whoever seemed
    to be able to do it, or sounded as if they knew what they were talking
    about.  I'm trying to avoid bad form by taking a few lessons down
    in Spencer, but it would be great to have an expert around at all
    times to ask what I just did wrong:-^)
    
    	Deep water starts are *STILL* giving me trouble.  I went through
    a lot of frustration when I found that I could in fact come up on
    one of the wooden skis, five times out of six anyway, but I hated
    that ski and reverted to using my son's Jobe and dropping the wooden
    one as soon as I got onto plane.  At this point I was down, hated
    the ski I could get up on, couldn't get up on the ski I liked, Bah !

    Last week I bought a Connelly Team 2, tried it out on thursday
    and basically had the same problem, nice to ski on but I couldn't
    get out of the water on it.  Same problem on friday, didn't ski
    saturday or sunday, but went out yesterday.  My son said I needed
    a lot more ski sticking up and to "Dig IN" when I feel the pull,
    to straighten up and pull back.  I did it on the third try, but
    I'm still not sure if it was luck or brute force, it seemed like
    I was lifting a barbell with my own weight on it as I straightened
    up, surely it shouldn't take that much pull ?  

    	A couple of tries later I found out the hard way why the ski
    tip shouldn't be in the V of the rope.  I decided to bale out of
    the pull early, but let go with the right hand first, before my
    left let go it was brought down hard onto the front binding and
    trapped behind the binding's hard front edge.  I was trapped until
    I came up anyway and pitched forward, which released my grip, but
    I lost quite a lot of skin from 3 of my fingers.

    	Reg

    	Oh, if someone would like to answer the following:-
    
    Question 1:  Where should the handle be relative to the front leg when
    the boat starts to pull ?  knee high ?, halfway between knee and ankle ? 
    or what ?
    Question 2:  How much ski should be sticking out ?  almost to the
    front bindingtoe ?  half that much ?  a third ?
    Question 3:  How hard should I have to pull against the boat ?  
    Half my weight ?  a third ?  a quarter ?

    RE: .12
    
>>  Question 1:  Where should the handle be relative to the front leg when
>>  the boat starts to pull ?  knee high ?, halfway between knee and ankle ? 
>>  or what ?
    
    If you start with the other foot out of the rear toe the rope should
    be knee high and close to the inside of the front knee.  If you
    start with the other foot in the rear toe, try to put the handle
    over the front knee.  If you are maintaining the pull against the
    boat as the boat accelerates the handle should come straight up
    and when you break out of the water.  If you're bending at the waist
    you're destined for a faceplant.  Period.  It's that simple.  You
    *MUST* keep the front leg stiff but bent a little and *DO NOT* buckle
    at the waist when the boat starts to pull.  It's the boat's job
    to pull whatever is attached to it up/through the water...it's your
    job to make sure it's "up" and not "through" the water.
    
>>  Question 2:  How much ski should be sticking out ?  almost to the
>>  front bindingtoe ?  half that much ?  a third ?
    
    This usually depends on how much power the boat has, but it's been
    my experience that the less pull the boat has the more ski you want
    out of the water.  With these beef-wagon ski boats I've started
    with the tip under water (not too far, but still under) and I've
    come right up.  But with less powerful boats you should try to keep
    as much ski as possible out of the water.  What affects this the
    most is how much you bend at the knee and waist when coming up.
    If you bend at the waist, the ski goes under, and you will usually
    follow.  You'll find similar effects with bending the knee.
    
>>  Question 3:  How hard should I have to pull against the boat ?  
>>  Half my weight ?  a third ?  a quarter ?
    
    If you're really asking for a quantitative answer I don't have one.
    It's pretty much as I said above...enough to keep your knee and
    waist from bending while you're moving the water out from in front
    of you.
    
    Hope this helps.  Good luck, and keep trying!
    
    					...Roger...

    hi Roger
    
    Re .12/.13
    
    I learnt to deep water start on mono ski's on a small engined boat
    40HP Evinrude pushing a 13' Shakespear.
    
    >>  Question 1:  Where should the handle be relative to the front
    >>  leg when the boat starts to pull ?  knee high ?, halfway between 
    >>  knee and ankle ?  or what ? 
    
    Well I always have the rope between my legs even with the wrong foot
    forward.(I get confused at the start of the season).  That means
    the rope is alongside the inside of the fron knee, regardless of
    whether one footed or two footed start.
    
    >>  Question 2:  How much ski should be sticking out ?  almost to the
    >>  front bindingtoe ?  half that much ?  a third ?
    
    Well I find that the important point is to tuck your knee up as
    close to your chest as possible and keep your back upright.  The
    ski will then have the right angle in the water which is somewhere
    between 30 and 45 degrees, this is a tight crouch.
    
    Once the boat is under way you will find that you start to lift
    out of the water.  At this point it helps to pull the rope into
    the pit of your stommach.  This forces you to roll onto the front
    of the ski and helps it to plane.
    
    On smaller engines it is more advisable to use the one footed method
    as it takes a while to get out.  The other hot tip is don't rush
    it.  You can ski in this ballet style for quite a while.  If you
    fall forwards then your rushing, If you fall backwards ????, If
    you fall sidways then it will come soon.
    
    >>  Question 3:  How hard should I have to pull against the boat?  
    >>  Half my weight ?  a third ?  a quarter ?
    
    The smaller the engine the harder the work.  I ski on a JOBE
    Proffesional Graphite an manage to get pulled out behind my 50HP
    Merc on the 13' Shakespear with both feet in, but it is very tyring.
    
    However I could not get out on the 40HP Evinrude on my JOBE, hence the
    change in engines.  Any other ski was no problem.
    
    Well I hope this helps
    
    Regards
    Roger R.
    
    Where do I find a dock between 1' and 4' of the water?  (see kneeboard
    note.)
    
      

    Sorry to point I forgot to mmenntion
    
    1. Keep your back straight.
    
    2. Are you sure the ski isn't to small? I can use my friends JOBE
    which is 1" longer and it is no problem for deep water starts.
    
    Regards
    Roger R.
    
    PS. Boat is still parked at home thanks to the trailer.

    re since .12   thanks guys, sounds like the back is probably curled
    up too much and the handle is too low.  The ski is the right size
    according to Connelly's chart for that ski.  I really appreciate
    the time and effort you put into answering my questions, it helps
    my motivation to keep trying - - but it was 40 F at my house this
    morning, so I'm gonna hafta hurry if this is to be perfected this
    year:-^)

    	Reg	{Wet suit's only been in the closet since mid June}
    

    
    
    RE: .12
    
    	3 Months Skiing?????

        
    	About coming out of the water.... I had forgotten how
    crucial weight is in the "getting up" formula. But putting
    on my full wetsuit this past weekend reminded me!
    
    	Just the added weight of wetsuit/water-in-wetsuit made
    a noticeable difference in ease of getting out of the water
    on one ski.
    
    	A quick question...  For those of you that slalom
    behind tournament boats... Does anyone *NOT* use full throttle
    when coming up? Do you find it any easier? I ease into it
    for smaller or less experienced skiers, but have drivers floor
    it for me. It seems that I have to hang on for dear life
    more than usual to keep the boat from getting away from me,
    lately.
    
    Rick

    re .17
    
    Hi Rick,
    
    Well I don't have a tournament boat yet, but still talking about the
    Mastercraft Tristar.  But I have a 90 Merc on a 16 foot Glastron, tuned
    for skiing with a 17 inch prop and a rich idle mixture. 
    
    Very few people can hang onto the rope with a slam it wide open start
    when there is just a driver and observer.  The boat jumps out of the
    water, and the skier is still low in the water with a lot of resistance
    and the pull is more than most can handle. 
    
    For experienced skiers that are used to a good start, I smoothly open
    the throttle- about three seconds to get it to full throttle. This gets
    the skier out of the water a bit before the engine makes full power. 
    
    Last weekend a neighbor's daughter that usually skis behind a Nautique,
    and claimed she was used to a good strong start was not able to
    handle a full throttle start.
    
    For inexperienced skiers, I quickly advance the throttle while looking
    at the tack.  When it gets to 2500 - 2700, I leave it alone until the
    boat comes up to speed.  Anything more than this usually pulls them out
    through the front.  By picking the RPM, the puuuull can be tailored to
    the skiers preference.  All the way up to the slam it open start to
    show the tournament boat skiers that outboards can pull too. 
    
    About having to hang on for dear life, the engines are making more
    power on these cool clear days than on the muggie 90 plus degree days.
    I would estimate about 15 to 20 percent more power.
    
    Changing to the 17 inch prop from a 19 made a huge difference in the
    starting performance.  The pitch alone makes about an 11% increase
    (by mechanical advantage), but the engine gets higher in it's torque
    range at the start.  The net result I would estimate to be a 25
    to 30% increase in out of the hole pulling power.  Five adults in
    the boat an a 200 pound slalom skier is no problem.
    
    Don
    
    

    Re .17:
    Rick,
      I like a good firm out-of-the-hole, but this only turns out to
    be about 3/4 throttle as I don't weigh all that much. (maybe 150
    lbs with soaking wetsuit) My wife on the other hand likes a real
    gradual pull, maybe 1/4-1/3 throttle, and she doesn't even get her
    hair wet. It seems like I'm going in slow motion and have to look
    in
       the mirror to make sure she really is up and skiing. (any more
    beef on the throttle and I get yelled at) These proportions pertain
    to both deep water and beach starts.
    I realize, Rick, that you must be used to pulling heavyweights as
    ther have been times when I've felt my bindings would be ripped
    out of my ski behind your boat. ;^)  (Hmm, high-wrap shoe-skis)
    Doug.
    
    Hey Don, have you tried pulling a skier behind your amphib? How
    about a parasail? (wonder how the FAA would handle that one)
    
    

	I just tried skiing for the second time in my life this past
    weekend and was amazed at how easily I got up and stayed up. 
    
    	There is one exercise that looks as if it might help someone
    with the mechanics of getting out of the water. What I was thinking
    is this:
    
    	Have the person that's having difficulty getting up sit on the
    floor or short stool with knees bent. Have them grab onto a broom 
    handle as they would a tow rope and then pull them up to a standing 
    position. This seems like it would use the same muscle groups used 
    in getting out of the water and seemed to be as close as possible to 
    the real thing only on land.
    
        RAYJ

    RE: .17  Rick, FULL THROTTLE?  Your arms must be several inches
    longer now!  :-)  I'll take 3/4 throttle max thank you.
    
    RE: Seaplane... need an observer?  I'll bring my ski and give it
    a try!  Anything once...
    
    					...Roger...

    And now, back to the original topic:
    
    There is an article in "The Water Skier" (AWSA magazine) entitled
    "The deep water slalom start". I won't enter the whole article,
    but there is a brief troubleshooting chart with cause/effect/correction
    info:
    
    SYMPTOM: Ski plowing.
    ERROR:   Ski too vertical, knee too far from chest.
    CORRECTION: Adjust ski more horizontal plane, bringing knee close
                to chest.
    
    SYPMTOM: Forward fall.
    Error:   Standing too quickly, weight too far forward.
    Correction:  Stand up slowly,move shoulders back as ski planes.
    
    SYMPTOM: Fall to side.
    ERROR:   Free leg not in proper position.
    CORRECTION: Keep free leg straight back and slightly to side.
    
    SYMPTOM: Fall backwards.
    ERROR:   Rope on wrong side, pulled in with arms.
    CORRECTION: Rope on free leg side, arms rigid.
    
    Practice, practice, practice,...

         Well I just want to say thanks to all those who
    answered the note. After extracting it, and my son taking
    the time to read it over a couple of times, we had to days
    of success this weekend. My son also sends his thank's to
    all of you as he is very happy to finally get up on the
    ski's. He made to complete runs around whalom without going
    down after getting up.

     
     Well, this seems like the place for this question:
    
    What would be the best way of trying to pull up a 7 yr old. He weighs
    
    approx. 55lbs. Hes using double skis that are both connected.Theres
    
    enough free play between skiis.The rope we tried was pretty long and
    
    had two handles.We tried all day Sunday to no avail. He can hang on and
    
    drag for ever (Im out there with him holding the ends of the skiis).
    
    But when the driver (his dad) hits it he cant get up. He will either 
    
    let go of the rope(the boat is not pulling that hard)or he'll just
    
    munch it. 
    
      Would a single ski with a single handled rope using that
    
    EASY-UP loop where the skier puts the ski tip in it work? 
    
      Personally, I cant get up on two skiis. I tried a single and POOF out
    
    I came. I guess I felt that two skiis where to much to deal with.
    
      It really doesnt help with parents nagging this little guy to try,try
    
    and try.Especially when water temps arent the greatest.
    
      Any advice would be appreciated.
    
    tom
    

    Tom,

    	Is this 7-year old hanging onto the handle? I assume he is....
    If he's using training skis (the ones that are tied together) then
    the procedure for the tow line should be as follows:

    	1) A person in the boat HOLDS the tow rope (don't actually tie it
    		to the boat) <------ VERY IMPORTANT!!!

    	2) Tie the tow rope to the skis onto the rope which connects the
    		two skis in the front.

    	3) Adjust the "tied" rope so the handle is in the proper position
    		for the 7-year old to hold when he's standing in skiing
    		position on the skis.

    	4) Get him in the water and with a little "butt assist" he'll be
    		off and skiing.

    	5) Also remember.... THE PERSON HOLDING THE ROPE IN THE BOAT...

    		HAS TO LET GO WHEN THE SKIER FALLS!!!!!!!!!!!! PLEASE DON'T
    		FORGET THIS DETAIL......

	6) Another member of this conference uses and "off-the-beach" start
    		with training skis which works quite well.
    
    	The other alternative is to bring him to a Gumball and we'll put
    him on a barefoot boom with skis and probably have him doing slalom
    by the end of the day... right guys?

    Rick
    

    
     Well, we have tried the "off-the-shore", but it didnt work to well 
    
    due to too many objects (rocks) under the water. The person helping
    
    couldnt stay with the boy that long.
    
     Its really hard for the boy to use the handle connected to the
    
    ski, then the rope from the ski to the boat. Do you think by having
    
    the rope tied to the boat is too much pull on his little arms.
    
     Is this the Required method or are there others we might try?
    
     Tom
    
    

    
    Tom,
    
    	The easiest method to get someone started skiing is the use of a
    barefoot boom. This is an 8 foot pole which hangs out the side of the
    boat and gives the new skier something solid to hang onto rather than
    a floppy 75' rope. Are there any tournament ski boats/barefooters on your
    lake? I'm sure most 'boom owners' would be glad to get a kid started
    skiing. 
    
    	Does WLDWST mean you're out west somewhere?
    
    Rick

    
     Yes, Im located in the Bay Area, California. This week we'll be
    heading up North to Lake Shasta we there is approx. 350 miles of
    shoreline. I hope to have a blast.
    
     Yes there will be tournament boats but I believe the Father will 
    undoubtly say no to letting someone else bring up his son. Actually,
    I wouldnt mind winning some points with my (future?) father-in-law.
    
     tom
    

    
     Well, it worked out well for the little guy. He got up and went for
    
    the longest time, around 400 yards. 
    
    Id drag with him and hold on to the tail of the skiis, holding them
    
    down so the tips would stay out of the water. Id let go when he was
    
    dragging fairly smooth and straight. The driver then accellerated
    
    slightly and the the boy stood up. It was great seeing this 6 yr. old
    
    skiing the lake after 10 tries altogether. He sais hes ready for a
    
    single ski now.
    

    
    	Awesome, congrats to the 6 year-old!
    
    Now I wish I could get my son on skis, but he refuses
    and only consents to the kneeboard.... I've stopped asking...
    
    Rick
    

RE: .31

Yeah, congrats on getting your 6 year old on skis.  Another future
champion is born!

RE: .32

Little Ricky won't ski, eh?  Hmm, that's strange.  May I suggest a substantial
bribe?  :-)  I know, you already thought of that.

My 4 year old nephew (Gary) almost put me in the hospital with a coronary last
week when he comes up to me and says, "Uncle Roger, Gary wants to go skiing!"  I
said (grasping my chest and looking at my sister [the boy's mother]), "Really?
Honest?  ALRIGHT!  Let's go!"  So we rigged up the trainer skis, I got in the
water behind him with jump skis on, and Reg drove my boat.  We both got up for
a while, then as I was trying to get him to stand up off my knees and on his own
we discovered that the rope attached to the handle was too long, and the boy
couldn't stand straight on the skis by himself.  He (we) fell and he got scared
("Gary don't like the deep water!" ... I was standing in water up to my
chest, but that was still over his little head :-)) so we quit for the day.  But
I was ecstatic.  I've been trying to get this kid to try for 2 summers now
(since I bought him those trainer skis for Chritmas 2 years ago!) and it's
always been "No, Gary don't want to try skiing!"  This time, *HE* asked *ME*!!
I'll have him up on his own by the end of this weekend!

His 1.5 year old sister is next!!!  :-)

...Roger...

P.S.  There's a good chance we'll have a *2 year old* skiing in our ski show
      this year!  The kid is already skiing on the 5' section off the boom, and
      has made a couple of close but unsuccessful attempts on the long line.
      We have 3 weeks to work on him!

    
    I've found the best to get their interest is by having them
    take along a friend of theirs that wants to ski.  
    
    When they see their buddy out there trying to learn, they go
    for it!  My nephew (7 yrs.) never wanted to ski until I had him invite
    his friend along who was dying to ski.  After Bruce watched
    his friend ski, he then got into the water and made four
    attempts (one successful) at skiing.   
    
    We let him ask us, I don't believe in forcing kids to ski or
    pestering them until they do.  They should want to ski.
    
    At one point Bruce got totally discouraged and said "thats it!,
    I'm not skiing, I quit"!  I said "fine, cuz I'm dying to
    ski, it's my turn"!  He says:  "allllllllright, one more try!"  
     :>)             
    
    Jeanne

    Gee, Rog.. now that your training technique is honed, and Lauren is
    having a riot at swimming lessons, maybe we should drag her down to the
    pond to shame Gary into another shot?
    
    After the first five minutes she's sure to be a better skier than her
    dad... 8^)
    
    ...tom
    
    (for those in the gallery, Lauren is my 3.5 year old daughter..)

    Moved by moderator.  There's lots of info here, and also in
    notes 509 and 687.
    
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Note 1028.0               how to teach children to ski                   1 reply
SCCAT::SHERRILL "head between knees were goin down"   6 lines  26-OCT-1992 17:34
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    What are some of the ways that can be used to teach children to ski??
    A friend of mine has a 7 year old boy who can knee-board very well
    but has not been able to get up , and is getting frustated.
    I know he can do it if we only knew a few methods that have worked
    for others.

    Moved by moderator.
    
================================================================================
Note 1028.1               how to teach children to ski                    1 of 1
MYOSPY::BRENNAN                                      23 lines  27-OCT-1992 02:35
                             -< Try to stop Boat >-
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    1) I have seen training ski(s) where the rope temporarily latches to the
       front of the skis, keeping the tips up and forward.
    
       But the best solution is the cheapest and this is what I tell'em...
    
    2)                    Legs Together
                    Ski Tips Up Out of the Water - Knees Bents
               Elbows bent slightly, rope between skiis
    
      "As the boat speeds up, wait until you feel your about to get pulled
       forward (over skis), THEN press the skis into the water, straightening 
       bent knees like your trying to stop the boat from going forward".
    
       Bingo!!! You'll pop right out of the water like a cork, staying up
       there...
    
       If it's a powerful boat, bring them up slowly.
    
    TJB
     
    
    

    Huh? An inner tube, what can that do for a little kid, well
    when I was learning, dad was either too cheap to buy small
    skiis or he just knew we would be good enough after a few
    tries I don't know.

    Well anyway the reason for the innertube is that you have them
    sit in the innertube with the skiis on. This is a very stable
    position, which for small kids seems to be hard to do at first.

    Give them the rope and, let er rip and he should have no problem
    getting up.

    Of course this is just how I was taught not necessarily the right
    or most gracious way but I did it.

    -Matt

    
    	My friend bought a pair of those trainer skis to teach his six 
    year old to ski.This is the type of ski that is short,the skis are
    tied together,and the handle that they hold is tied to the tow rope.
    The tow rope has a handle at the boat end too.Someone holds the rope
    at the boat end,so you can let go if they go down.With the three 
    boats between us and waterfront,at least six-eight kids got to try 
    this setup this season and it works quite well.I can vouch for it 
    because I was usually the one holding the rope in the boat.This type 
    of thing has its limits of course,it all depends on the size of the 
    beginner that you are holding onto,and the skis are short.He got them
    at a yard sale or flea market for five bucks or something like that.
    They're in fine shape and it seems to work.
    
    
    Keith
    

    
    We took an old wooden ski and put little kid
    bindings on it.  The ski is about 66", and makes
    it easier for my 8 year old nephew to do deep
    water slalom starts with both feet in.  He pops
    up quickly.  Now that he's learned to do deep water
    starts, he can switch to a better ski.
    
    I like the inner tube trick, wish we knew about
    that two years ago!  
    
    Jeanne
    
    
    

The two-page Control Data ad in this week's Computerworld magazine has a
picture of a large airfoil boat towing EIGHTY waterskiers. Could this be
a large water skiing class? B^)

Do you suppose they have 80 observers aboard?

    
        There I was out there getting each of my teens up on skis for the
    first time, and there all having a blast and we were in this cove area
    on a lake. Well the oldest did a crash and burn and I retrived her and
    went to get the skis. We got one, then we started to look for the other
    one, and even driving around in circles and carefully checking out the
    shore-line, that damn ski dissappeared! So we decided to go back and
    eat lunch.
    
         I hit full throttle and then BBBRRRaaaapppp. the ski we lost got
    eaten by the propellor. The damn thing was under the boat trapped there
    and would move until I hit the gas. So I hang off the back of the boat
    and swap $$$$$ the propellor than head to the marina and find the exact
    skis that I own, so I ask the guy behind the counter if I can buy just
    one ski. He looks at me and says...The slolam skis are right over there
    with the regular skis!  So then I hav-to tell him the story. He gets a
    good laugh and he actually sold me the one ski.....Now I gotta get
    another spare prop. duh!
    
    -john

John,
	Boy can I relate to your misfortune, not that I've done it (YET) but I
can't count the times I've come close.  Most of the skiers in my family are
novice slalom skiers that start on two and drop a ski along the way.  That ski
ALWAYS ends up upside down.  In our case, the drop skis have black bottoms which
make them almost impossible to see.  Wouldn't you think with all the bright and
fancy graphics they put on top... they could sprinkle a few on the bottom for
better visibility!

	I ended up buying s 'Ski Bouy', a block of foam that fits over the toe
piece of the front binding. It does keep the drop ski rightside up, and being
bright orange is easy to spot.  It does cause extra resistance especially on
starts, so like everything else is a compromise.

	Maybe a bright orange stripe on the bottom of the skis is in order!

dave