Conference unifix::sailing

    If indeed your mast is square in the boat -- port to 
    starboard -- I'd be inclined to question the accuracy
    of your close hauled indicator.  Are you certain your
    getting an accurate reading?  If not, VERIFY.
    
    I'll assume the sea conditions weren't biasing one tack.
    Are you trimming the sails in the exact same manner on either
    tack?  The jib lead should be identical on both sides, as
    should the traveler for the main.

    Otherwise, have you got an off-center outboard hanging 
    in the water or any assymetric annomaly in the hull?  
        
    BTW:  Forget about getting 15 degrees on both tacks.  I
    wouldn't even believe 20.  MAYBE 25 if you've got an
    incredible little pointer.

    
    
       Does your sporting little machine have a mast that rotates??
     If so, is it rotating all the way out on both tacks??
     If you have a mast rotation assembly, is the tension the same
    on both sides??
    
      If it were a Cat (I know it isn't), I'd say it is in the
    rudders being incorrectly set on one side, or the mast is
    rotating either not far enough, or the cup has worn away,
    causing the mast to overotate.
                                  
    

	Are you sure the mast is upright? It's really not a question of how
	it looks! 

	I just had a similar problem with my boat. When I finally found a
	metallic tape measure (only thing that does not stretch) and pulled
	it up with the genoa halyard (wire = no stretch) I found that I
	was lopsided by about 4 mm (1/6 inch) on a shroud of 11.5 meters
	(some 38 feet)! This translated into some three turns on the turn-
	buckle to straighten the mast up. Now I go OK!

	Another thing you should check is that the mast does not flex in
	the middle. On a hard tack, go up to the mast and look up the main
	sail groove. The mast should be straight and not flex at the middle. 
	If it's not, adjust the lover shrouds so it's straight on both
	tacks.

	Good luck!
	H�kan

    I don't possess such esoterica as a close-hauled indicator, I'm
    using the back pointers on my "Windex" wind indicator, each of which
    are set to 20 degrees off centre-line. Now I can get the indicator
    well inside the 20 degrees on one tack but not get to it on the
    other. So much for measurement ...!!!
    
    The sea conditions certainly affect pointing performance but I've
    sailed it under so many varying conditions now that it's definitely
    ruled out as a cause.
    
    Sheets - jib tried at most track settings : no change. Main tried
    central and offset : no change.   BTW, main track is only width
    of cockpit sole, jib tracks are as inboard as they'll go without
    severe interference from the shrouds - and even then some!
    
    Outboard - swung up out of the water. Yes, it has an effect when
    hard heeled but otherwise ....
    
    Other obstructions. The speedo impeller is off-centre towards aft
    (unusal place) but not enough drag surely for such a difference?
    
    The keel *could* be slightly skewed, but how do I check it?
    
    OK, the mast is almost 9 metres high, the inner shrouds only 2.5
    metres up and the top ones at 6 metres - it's a "bendy" mast - so
    I can't measure perfect perpendicularity (such a word?), but the
    steel tape up the halyard sounds like a good idea (the spinnaker
    halyard goes in at the forestay which is almost at the same height
    as the top shrouds).  Will let you know how I get on.
    
    By the way - it's a 6 metre monohull and, yes, she's a great pointer!
    If only she'll balance ......

    6-meter -- thought they were closer to 30 feet long.  Yep, she 
    should point.  Whose design is she?  You must have just gotten her,
    yes?
    
    Windex -- falls into the category of "close hauled indicator"
    in my book.  ;)  Ok, both sides dialed in to 20 degrees off centerline,
    but are you certain windex centerline and the hull's certerline
    match up?  As a sanity check, have you sailed against another boat
    for comparison?  No, there's no way the speedo could do that.  Nor the 
    outboard.  The boat doesn't list when moored, does it (balanced
    ballast)?

    If you pass the steel tape test and the windex is alligned, 
    it could still be the rig.  You did say you ckecked
    alignment under strain.  Not falling off at the jumpers or
    something like that, right?  
    
    The keel may well be the culprit.  Does the boat have a dramatically 
    different feel in the helm from one tack to the other?  Does she 
    consistently drift off course in the same direction?  Does she
    side-slip significantly more on one tack or the other?  
    If so, have a good yard take a look at her.
    
    Good luck,
    Dean F.

    6 metres is the LOA, not the class! (ie it's actually 19'6" long
    plus pulpit overhang).  Can't remember the designer - think it was
    Proctor but not sure, I'll check the docs tonite - and I've had
    her for 2 1/2 seasons now.
    
    yes, she does have a different "feel" on each tack. Starboard is
    really comfortable and predictable (points well) but port is less
    so, not to the extent of being unsafe but she doesn't feel quite
    as stable. The keel lifts in winter to go onto a low trailer and
    is held in position by a box within a box - one box on top of the
    keel fits snugly into another in the bottom of the boat. If this
    is the problem then I don't see what I can do about it.
    
    In comparison with other boats, she points so well on starboard
    that there is literally no comparison!
    
    Will still check the steel tape measurements this weekend when I
    get out again.
    
    Brian

    Why not just use your main halyard instead of a steel tape?  That's
    what we do when tuning the mast.  Just run it to a point on the rail on
    one side and snug it up, then take it over to the other side and see if
    it reaches the same point with the same amount of tension applied.
    
    Sounds to me though like you might have an asymmetrical keel.  We had
    the same symptoms on WAGS after hitting a rock and fixing the keel.  In
    the off season we got the keel offsets from the manufacturere and made
    templates.  When we put them up against the keel we discovered that,
    while it looked straight, there was a big difference down on the bottom
    portion of the keel.  We added fairing compound to make it symmetrical
    again, them smoothed it down with a belt sander till everything was
    back to where the templates said they should be.  No more problem. 
    It's a BIG job though, and if that's your problem, expect to spend a
    few days in jackstands (or slings if you're so lucky) till it's fixed.
    
    Best of luck.  Sounds like a nice boat.  Hope the problem's something
    simpler than the keel.
    
    ... Bob

>>>    Why not just use your main halyard instead of a steel tape?  That's
>>>    what we do when tuning the mast.  Just run it to a point on the rail on
>>>    one side and snug it up, then take it over to the other side and see if
>>>    it reaches the same point with the same amount of tension applied.
    
This might work with a wire halyard. Rope halyards are stretchy enough 
that you have to apply exactly the same tension on both sides to get 
accurate results. The difficulty is applying exactly the same tension.

    So, it's not a "6-meter."  Ok.  And you've had her awhile.
    Then this is a new problem this season.  
    
    The keel lifts?  That could be the culprit, and 
    the solution may be less complicted than you think.
    Perhaps one of the keel's bearing surfaces is worn,
    causing the keel to wander.  Does the keel "clunk" 
    when you tack?  If it's strictly a static allignment 
    problem, you may be able to shim the boxes -- as long 
    as the keel itself isn't bent.

    It's not a new problem this year - as far as I remember, because
    last year or so I was just "having fun" and not serious about fine
    tuning her.
    
    The keel lifts on a winch placed inside the boat, wedged between
    sole and topsides, with a hook going to a plate inside the the keel
    box. Nice for putting it up an a trailer (she can be trailer-sailed
    but hours of rigging up and putting away at a time are not for me!)
    but normally the keel is bolted down into the boat with some rather
    large s/s bolts.  I guess some shimming could be possible, but that's
    a job for when she's hauled again. In the meantime, I'll be trying
    the steel tape measure.
    
    Brian

    Brian,
         Just a thought triggered by all the input so far......
    Many moons ago when racing machines were made of natural material
    I crewed on a centre boarder that never performed on both tacks
    the same. The problem and solution at the time was minute movement
    on the plate when down. It was resolved by the owner carefully placing
    oak wedges to rule out any movement at all. It made a difference
    on club racing days but not as much as you are suffering from. I
    would put even moner on the mast alignment.
    
    Pete

    A friend who had just purchased a new fiberglass international one
    design a few years ago encountered the same problem.  He had checked
    the side to side mast alignment and found it to be on the money.
    All the keel bolts were tight and the keel looked symmetrical. 
    He eventually gave up looking for causes and just tuned the boat
    while underway so it balanced on both tacks.  This worked fine and
    he went on to win his share of races.  But the mast did look noticeably
    off center.
    
    Over the winter he checked a few more things out and discovered
    to his surprise that one side of his boat was higher than the other.
    Measuring the distance from the mast step to the leading
    edge of the chain plate revealed that one side was 1/2 " longer
    than the other.  The builder got a nasty phone call but the only
    easy thing he could do was to shim the mast at the partners a bit.
    He still had to do the final balancing on the water while sailing.
    
    Using the halyard/tape and even a tension meter should give a good
    first approximation.  But I usually do the final fractional turn
    while underway.  It's surprising how much difference even a half
    turn makes.
    
    - gene ho

    
    While you've got your metal tape out, check the distance from the
    mast step to each rail, I've read that they can be as much as 2"
    off center from the factory in bad cases!
    
    Do you have any unused halyards, e.g. flag halyards, on one side
    of the mast that never get used?  (wouldn't account for so much
    difference, though)
    
    Is the weight in the boat distributed evenly?
    
    Is the underside equally fair on both sides of the centerline?
    
    Is the windex tight and centered?  They can become loose and pivot
    slightly on each tack.
    
    I assume you keep the draft in the same part of your sails on
    each tack...
    
       - jim  (not a racer, so what do I know?)
    

    Well folks, I spent a few hours on Club Wine yesterday.
    
    First thing I found was a note taped to my guardrail from the
    Department of Trade saying something about "I see you have radio
    equipment on board, but we've no record of issuing you with a licence"
    which is a load of bull, 'cos my radio is still in it's box at home
    and has never been fitted! Presumably they can't tell a Windex from
    an antenna at more than 25' high?!!!
    
    Anyway, I did the halyards to the side decks first - as a rough
    check - and they seemd fine. So I strung up a wire rope to the masthead
    on the main halyard and really tensioned it, then took it to the
    other side. Now, I may not have had exact same tension on each side
    but it came within 1cm as far as I could make out.  Guess the mast
    is straight, or at least as good as I can get it - 1cm over 28'
    I reckon is pretty hard to get rid of!
    
    So we started looking at all sorts of other things. Balance was
    first - all the anchor chain and anchors were put central except
    for a bit to offset the battery. I left the outboard on it's bracket,
    offset to starboard, as the weather was such that it was not safe
    to have no alternative means of power to hand. 'Twas lifted out
    of the water though.  Still no joy - she was pointing up differently.
    In fact, on starboard tack I was getting so close to the wind we
    didn't have to tack to get back into harbour as all the other boats
    did!
    
    Even tried changing the backstay tension (desperate measures!),
    moved the jib tracks back and forth, changed the jib from a No1
    to a working jib! No change - still points well on s'bd but not
    on port - plus she felt distinctly uncomfortable on port tack in
    what was a fairly heaavy sea (wind force 4 gusting 5 and waves
    averaging 2-3' with the odd 4-5 footer that crashed over the coachroof!
    
    So, it looks like I've got myself a slightly offset keel. I now
    started wondering if I could turn this to an (illegal?) advantage?
    Would it be possible says I to have the keel moveable across a few
    degrees within it's housing to facilitate pointing? Better still,
    how about an extra "rudder" up front like on some of the A-cup boats?
    Then my pocket started pinching me and brought me back to reality!
    We'll be slinging her in a few weeks so can do some quick measurements
    (at $20 per hour in the slings they have to be!).
    
    In the meantime, to point up that far on s'bd does have it's advantages
    when in contention!
    
    Brian

    A sailor colleague said a few minutes ago "They all do that!" and
    I got to thinking about the other boats I've sailed.  The first
    was a Jeanneau 24' which was a real PIG on both tacks because of
    the amount of green stuff on the bottom!  Another, an Aloa 27' in
    Greece, was certainly better on one tack than the other - we could
    set her up to sail herself perfectly balanced on port (I think)
    yet couldn't do it on starboard.  But then, what would you expect
    from a charter yacht?  Certainly not racing standards!
    
    If it's too hard to solve, I'll learn to use it ....
    
    Brian

>    So, it looks like I've got myself a slightly offset keel. I now
>    started wondering if I could turn this to an (illegal?) advantage?
>    Would it be possible says I to have the keel moveable across a few
>    degrees within it's housing to facilitate pointing? Better still,
>    how about an extra "rudder" up front like on some of the A-cup boats?
>    Then my pocket started pinching me and brought me back to reality!
>    We'll be slinging her in a few weeks so can do some quick measurements
>    (at $20 per hour in the slings they have to be!).
    
	If you twist it a few more degrees, you'll be able to sail directly
	into the wind. Too bad you have to sacrifice performance on the
	other tack to do it. :>}

	--RS

    Well, we hauled the boat at the weekend.  Really lousy weather it
    was, but then I figured that no-one in their right mind would
    want to use the slip that day - I was spot on, they didn't!!
    
    First problem removed was the half a rotten jellyfish wrapped around
    the speedo impeller (so *that's* why it stopped working!), then
    the mast foot broke as it was being lowered - sheared straight off.
    Glad it happened on land!  Another expense .....
    
    Back to the original question.  I rechecked the mast before lowering
    and as far as I could tell it was vertical.  So, to the keel...
    Apart from rather rough surfaces and some rust bubbles starting
    there was nothing apparently wrong there.  I couldn't measure perfectly
    as the weather was bl**dy awful by this time (gales and rain) but
    my guess would be that although it wasn't perfectly aligned, it was
    pretty close to a fore-aft line.  Back to the drawing board.  I
    guess I'll spend some time over the winter rubbing the keel back
    to bare metal (it's a 750lb chunk of cast iron), smoothing it and
    repainting with red lead before next season's antifouling goes on...
    
    Talking of antifouling, the Micron CSC worked very well, just as
    good as the TBT Copolymer the previous year.  Some slime build-up
    (but it'd been sitting on it's berth for the last 3 weeks!) and
    a little weed growth at the waterline but nothing to really complain
    about.  Maybe the TBT from the previous year, which I'd painted
    the CSC over, had an effect, but I was pleased and the bottom came
    clean with a quick power-spray.
    
    Brian

	Sorry to hear that you did not get it "symmetric".

	Just a comment about the keel :

	If you have an iron keel and want many, problemfree years with it,
	have an specialist blow it off with sand and then cover it with a
	good layer of epoxy. This will keep it in good shape for 4-5 years
	if you don't bash the keel and get holes in the epoxy.

	Note that the sandblowing should be done on a dry day and that the
	epoxy must go on directly - say within half an hour - so you don't get
	any rust under the protective coating. If the surface get's at all 
	reddish before being painted with the epoxy you might as well not have
	gone thru the trouble!

	Good luck, H�kan