Conference turris::cooks

Look around a bit.  I've seen low sodium chicken, beef, and fish stock, in 
powder (packet and jar) and cube form.  I bought some a while back.  They 
aren't bad in a pinch, but they are a bit bland.

Other than that, I've never seen good unsalted stocks in the stores.  (key 
word is unsalted, many are good, but most are overly salty).

						     
							- JP

       I make meat stock by simply putting the raw bones in a crock pot,
       nearly covering with water and running the pot on low for 24
       hours or so.

       Similarly for vegetable stock: just put a variety of roughly cut
       up veggies in the pot, cover with water and cook overnight.

       /. Ian .\

    I haven't seen a decent substitute for stock, and also believe that
    the real thing is best.  I don't find chicken stock a pain to make
    really, whenever I have a chicken for salad, I poach it, instead
    of roasting, and then have a ready made stock, and a less fattening
    chicken!  This is what I do:-
    
    Take one chicken, put into a saucepan or casserole with a tight-fitting
    lid, and fill with cold water until it comes about halfway up the
    chicken.  Add half an onion, carrot, celery, mixed herbs, and about
    6 whole black peppers, bring to the boil, and simmer for required
    time, about half an hour per pound.
    
    

    I have a plastic bag in the freezer in which I put all bones -
    sometimes I separate them by red meat vs poultry.  When there are
    enough bones, and when the weather is cool enough to allow it, I
    simply boil them up for 4 hours or so, along with (usually) a
    few stalks of cut up celery, a chopped carrot, an onion, and
    a handful of whatever herbs attracted my attention in the herb
    garden.  The resulting broth gets strained and cooled overnight.
    The next evening I skim the broth and pack it into various sized
    plastic containers.  (I save them from yogurt and cottage cheese,
    and from anything else that arrives in plastic containers with
    reusable covers).  Each container is labelled and dated.  The
    containers go into the downstairs storage freezer.  I like using
    containers that hold a cup for at least part of the batch, since
    that makes it easy to use the broth for gravy or casseroles.
    
    --Louise

I also use canned stock.  Home made stock is better, but not enough
better that it's worth making as often as you need it. (Or having to
wash out the containers that go bad in the fridge.) If you're concerned
about the salt content, you can just reduce or skip any salt called for
in the recipe. 

They don't make canned vegetable stock as far as I know, but draining a 
can of Veg-all into the mix serves well.  

If you need to stretch stock, you can use water and boullion cube, or 
beer.  Beer used as stock is very good with beef dishes, a little strong 
for chicken.  The alcohol boils off during cooking -- good news if you're 
a tee-totaller -- a warning if you're contemplating pouring your last beer 
into the stew....
					>>>==>PStJTT

    
    Whenever I make stock, I pour it into ice cube trays.  Once they
    freeze, I place them in a plastic bag.  That way I can take out
    only as much as I need for any recipe.
    

    I make stock pretty much the same way as Louise, in a prior reply..
    
    What I do is to render the stock (I do mostly chicken stock) down
    to half, freeze in small containers, cup size, and when you need
    to make a gravy for all those chicken breast recipes you pop one
    of these cups from the freezer, defrost (nuke it), add some water/
    wine (depending on how much you rendered it down) and you have
    (almost) instant gravy
    
    Rick

    Have you checked the canned soup section for the canned ones? Like
    College Inn or Campbells?  I use them all the time when I don't
    have the time to make my own (which is MOST of the time), and they
    do the job.  They tend to be a bit bland, but then you can adjust
    the seasonings according to what you are making.  I would bet the
    dried or frozen ones are by the same manufacturers as the canned
    stocks...marketing strategy for those who think frozen/freeze dried
    is better than canned!
    
    Sarah
    

    Knorr's chicken and beef bouillon cubes are the one's that I swear
    by.  They are available at Stop & Shop (at Boston area) and in most
    of the chinese grocery stores I have ever seen.  
    They are so good that my friend used to make Egg Drop soup by using
    2 chicken bouillon and 3 1/2 or 4 cups of water, 2 beaten eggs and some
    spinach (can be ommitted or substitute for desired veggie).
    If they don't sell Knorr's bouillon, then I guess you will have
    no choice but to make from scratch.

If you want to try any stock that is not home-cooked (sacrilige to me!)
try the frozen stock from gourmet grocers....canned is just not good enough
for my more delicate efforts.

I also save bones in the freezer, broil them to brown them, and then
create a stock in my crock pot by cooking for at least 12 hours.  One
additional trick is to add a couple of tablespoons of vinegar to leach out
the calcium from the bones.  Before freezing the stock, I bring it to
a rolling boil on the stove and cook it down by half.  Then I cool and
freeze it.  When using in cooking, add an equal amount of water.  This
makes it nice for people without big freezers.

	D_who_is_not_above_committing_sacrilige_when_pressed  8^}

    Most bouillons have MSG as well as excess salt.  Try shopping the
    health food stores.  I have seen a vegetarian stock there.  
    
    My most convenient recipe entails putting the carcass (after carving
    a chicken or turkey roast) in a big pot with an onion, some carrot,
    some celery (including leaves), and whole peppercorns.  Simmer two
    hours and strain.  Makes a weak broth suitable for replacing water
    when cooking rice or as a base for other dishes.
    
    Save money by making your own boneless chicken breasts AND get six
    cups of genuine Yiddishe chicken soup (from one who should know!).
    Debone the bird.  Basic cookbooks have instructions.  Unless you
    crave schmaltz (chicken fat) discard the skin. By the way, the cookbook
    will tell you how to debone the entire bird.  We only do the breast
    meat.  Take the rest, including wings (don't even try to skin them)
    and throw in pot with the usual onion, carrot, celery, peppercorns,
    and salt.  Simmer two to four hours and strain.  Pick off the meat
    from the bones (it will fall right off) and shred it into the soup.
    If you want to remove the fat, put the soup in a wide casserole.
    Refrigerate.  Fat will congeal on top and can be removed with a
    large spoon. 
    
    To serve, simmer soup with egg noodles, matzoh balls, or for a complete
    meal, dried or fresh tortellini and peas (Italian-style).  This
    is DELICIOUS.  And easy.  I guarantee you will love it.  To make
    the Italian-style even greater, stir a bit of pesto sauce into your
    bowl. As we say, this is SOUP!
    
    The Vegetarian Epicure cookbook has a surprisingly good recipe for
    veggie bouillon.  Scrub and peel potatos.  Cook the peels with the
    usual onion, etc. (Potatos can be nuked and mashed.)  Use broth
    as a base for minestrone or other rich soups.  
    

    Another plug for the Veggie Epicure - they have a recipe for
    Garlic Broth which is incredible, if you like garlic as much
    as we do.
    
    There's also a recipe for potato peel broth - potato peelings make
    a delicious, lightly flavored broth.  Then there's "garbage broth"
    - save ALL peelings (and bones, if you're not veggie) in a bag
    in the freezer.  When the bag's full, boil it all up for a few
    hours.  Strain, and you've got a good broth which, depending on
    what's in it, varies in taste from time to time.  It can be strong,
    if you have broccoli ends and cabbage outside-leaves, or mild,
    if it's mainly potato and carrot peelings.  But always delicious!
    
    --Louise
    

re .1

I checked over the weekend, the Low Sodium powdered bullion I have is made by 
HERB-OX.

						     
							- JP

    I haven't tried this yet but it looks useful for those of us who
    own microwaves.  Reprinted from the Boston Globe.
    
    Microwaved chicken stock
    ------------------------
    To make enough chicken broth to serve as the base for soup for four,
    fill a 4-cup microwave-safe cooking container with 2 cups of cold
    water.  Add about half a pound of chicken (wings, backs, necks or
    a chicken breast with skin and bones on - an approximate guide is
    2 wings for 2 cups of water, 4 wings for 4 cups of water) and half
    a teaspoon of salt.  Cover the container tightly with microwave-safe 
    plastic wrap. Cook on high for 15 minutes in a large over (600 to 700 
    watts) or 20 minutes in a smaller over (400 to 500 watts).  
    
    To make 4 cups of broth, double the quantities.  Use a larger container
    so the soup won't boil over.  Cover securely with microwave-safe
    plastic wrap and cook on high for 30 minutes.  If you have a smaller
    oven you may want to stick to the 2-cup quantity for faster results
    as this amount of broth will require 45 minutes on high in a smaller
    oven.  
    
    When the broth has finished cooking, remove the container from the
    oven using potholders, and carefully take off the plastic wrap.
    Pour the broth through a strainer.  It can be frozen or immediately
    combined with other ingredients for soup.  If you freeze the broth,
    defrost it completely before using it.
        

    The grocery store I use frequently sells chicken backs and necks
    - just for stock making, it seems!  I don't usually feel too guilty
    about not picking off the itty-bitty pieces of meat.  Maybe you
    could ask at the meat counter where you shop - I think they're about
    20 cents a pound!
    
    Terry

    The best way I've found to make chicken stock is as follows:   
              I start with a 3 lb. or so broiler chicken,cut the legs
           and wings off,then split the body down the back.Then I  
           cut(more like chop)the legs and wings into 2 to 3 inch  
           sections,breaking up the bones also.I pretty much do the
           same with the slit body,cutting through ribs and spine. 
           Put all pieces in a pot and cover parts with cold water.I
           add scallions and peppers also.Bring to a boil.As the water
           heats up,remove the foam that forms on the surface.A large
           spoon wrapped in cheese cloth works well for this.Reduce
           heat to a strong simmer and cover.Let it cook until the 
           chicken turns to mush.I leave it cooking at least 4 hours,
           adding water as needed.Strain through a fine screen     
           colander,and toss the chicken remains out.If its done   
           correctlly,the chicken is a write off,but talk about good
           stock!                                                  
                  Mike

    Copied from Gourmet/August 1988
    
    1 4-pound chicken including the neck and giblets (except the liver)
    1 large onion stuck with 2 cloves
    2 leeks, halved lengthwise and washed well
    2 carrots
    1 rib of celery, halved
    2 teaspoons salt
    a cheescloth bag containing: 4 parsley sprigs, 1/2 teaspoon dried
      tyme, 1 unpeeled garlic clove, and 1 bay leaf
    
    In a kettle combine the chicken, the neck and giblets - chopped,
    and 12 cups cold water and bring to a boil, skimming the froth.
    Add 1/2 cup cold water and bring the mixture to a simmer, skimming
    the froth.  Add the onion, leeks, carrots, celery, salt, and
    cheesecloth bag and simmer the mixture, skimming the froth, for
    2 hours.  Remove the chicken from the kettle, remove the meat and
    skin from the carcass, and reserve the meat for another use.  Chop
    the carcass, return it and the skin to the kettle, and simmer the
    stock, adding boiling water if necessary to keep the ingredients
    barely covered, for 2 hours more.  Strain the stock through a fine
    sieve into a bowl, pressing hard on the solids, and let it cool.
    Chill the stock and remove the fat.  Stock may be frozen.  Makes
    about 6 cups.
    

I make a lot of soup. I've used Knorr, Goya, Herb-Ox and some other
prepared bouillion to start stock. I've bought commercial restaurant soup
bases by the box, jar, and bag. I've boiled bones etc., always looking
for a certain appearance and taste. This weekend, although I started out
to make vegetable beef soup, I ended up making the best minestrone I've
ever eaten, with the best stock I've ever made!

It started out with about three pounds of beef bones that I bought (it
hurts to buy soup bones, but what can you do?). What I did differently
this time was to put the bones in a corningware dish and bake them in the
oven. When they were well browned I put the corningware dish (a square
casserole, actually) on top of the stove, moved the bones to the soup
pot, which had nothing but water in it. The corningware had an eighth
inch of grease in it from the bones; I used this to thoroughly brown some
raw beef I had trimmed off an irregularly-shaped roast. Then, on a whim, I
also browned three cut up Italian sausages with fennel in them, pricking
them well to get all the grease out. This made a terrible mess of the
stove top! I removed the meat from the corningware and set it aside. By
now the corningware was disgustingly caked with dark brown, cooked-on
"stuff" from the bone baking, the meat browning, and the sausage
browning. I poured off the remaining grease, looked at the corningware,
and dumped in a half cup of cabernet sauvignon. My intention was to
deglaze the dish. It worked like magic.  All those brown spots disolved
into the wine, and turned into a nice, rich brown liquid - which I then
dumped into the stock pot with the bones. I left it then, to go read. It
cooked for almost three hours, during which time I added a chopped onion
and the bottom halves of three celery ribs. The liquid level reduced by
over two inches, possibly a 40% reduction; so, it got concentrated. After
straining, it was a beautiful clear brown stock, with the appearance I've
sought for years, and the flavor was great.

It hasn't escaped my attention that my favorite cookbook says to bake
beef bones before you make stock. I never wanted to take that extra step
and always just started with raw bones in water. <sigh>

Art

    Now ya know why they say bake 'em first!

    One of my friends is a professional chef.  When she makes chicken soup,
    the stock is brown.  She always browns the bones first.  She makes the
    best chicken soup!  

    
    
    Rep. the last few
    
    
      Browning the bones gives the resulting stock two things, the color
    from the cramelized bones and juices and a roasted flavour. The color
    is important for beef or brown stocks but not so in things like clear
    stocks for some soups or sauces. The roasted flavour is important again
    in some soups or sauces. So depending on how and where you intend to
    use the stock you may or may not want to brown the bones before
    starting. I usually brown the the bones for all of my brown stocks and
    only sometime brown them for chicken stock. Again you have to decide
    on the use for the final product.
    
    
    -mike