Conference trucks::football;1

    
       England play Germany tonight at Wembley.It will be the hardest test
    so far for Graham Taylor.His team is not helped by injuries and
    suspentions,but reads
          Woods
          Dixon
          Dorigo
          Pallister
          Parker
          Steven
          Platt 
          Batty
          Salako
          Smith
          Lineker
    
     Subs to be announced.
    
         Chris Woods has finally beaten David Seaman for the number 1 spot.
    Taylor said there wasnt much between them,but Woods has been patient
    and has the edge on experience.Its a chance for some of the players to
    really push for a regular first team place.Salako could oust Barnes for
    good if he plays well.
    
    Dave...

Has anyone noticed the uncanny resemblance between the Sugar Puffs Honey
Monster and....
                 Gary Pallister.


Are they related... I think we should be told.


Stuart

    Any news on Irelands team to face Hungary tonight - who is playing and
    who isn't ?????
    
    		Brian.

    
    WALES 1 Brazil 0
    
    Dean Saunders scored.
    
    A similar result against Germany next month will do nicely.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    Re.3
    Brian...sorry missed the team....busy these days...all I know
    is the result:
    
    Hungary 1     Eire 2
                   
    
    Kelly and Aldrige scored for Eire !!!!
    
    Ronan
    

    England 0  Germnay 1

Holland 1  Polen 1

    
    
    Ronan
    
    
    	What's with this " EIRE "  shit.
    
    	Do you work for the BBC......
    
    	Try   Rep. of Ireland  instead......
    
    
    Vinnie.

    Re .5
    
    Was Aldridge or Sheedy who scored the winner for Ireland ? -the report
    on teletext said it was Sheedy.
    
    Paul

    
    Re -1,
    
    	see note 30.9

    So, what about England - Germany? No reports?
    
    P

	England 0 Germany 1.


	I thought England were unlucky to lose last night and certainly in the
1st half played the better football, which having seen the team Taylor had
picked, was somewhat of a surprise to me. 

	Germany hit the outside of the post early on, but after that England
attacked well for 30 minutes or so. Lineker and Smith looked good up front and
both went very close to scoring. Immel and the woodwork (Platt header) 
rescuing Germany on several occasions. Effenberg played really well during this
period and halted many England attacks.

	On the stroke of half time Thomas Doll crossed from the left and with
Pallister and Batty ball watching Riedler scored with a powerful header.
Pallister has to take the majority of the blame for the goal as he never picked
up Riedler at all.

	In the second half England didn't play as well, and Germany looked more
likely to score. Woods made a couple of excellent saves.

	Despite the result not a bad performance, but England need to play
their best players. In midfield especially class was missing, with Steven
having a poor game, and Batty looking way out of his depth. Bring back Waddle,
Gasgoigne and Robson. Robson may be to old, but Waddle certainly isn't.

	Woods played very well and on that performance should keep the no 1
shirt. Dixon was adequate, Dorigo looked very good and will push Pearce for his
place. Pallister was at fault for the goal and made several other blunders he
was lucky to have Parker next to him. Bring back Wright and Walker. Parker 
was superb. Against the pace of the German attackers he was Englands most
effective defender.

	Salako showed some promise, but faded out of the game in the second
half, Platt got into several very good scoring positions but was unable to put
them away. Steven was a dissapointment. Batty? I thought it very nice of Garry
Lineker to pass the ball to him from the kick off in the second half!

	Smith played better than I expected, and looked dangerous in the 1st
half. But the difference in class between him and Lineker was apparent in 
the 2nd half, when things weren't going Englands way, Lineker was making 
chances for himself whereas Smith just became invisible. 

	Merson looked good when he came on and almost scored. Stewart didn't
get into the game.


		Steve

    The French variety club celebrated its 20th birthday yesterday with a
    football match - Variety Club v World Selection. An enjoyable match and good
    to be re-acquainted with a lot of old names. A good quote came from
    Beckanbauer who was asked by the TV bod why he stayed on when they were
    trying to sub him. He replied "that without his glasses, he could see
    the board but not the number".
    
    For those interested, the World team was: Dassaev, Gentile, Piazza,
    Beckenbauer, Camacho, Neeskens, Tardelli, Platini, Rivelino, Rossi,
    Zico, Dalglish, Milla, Altobelli, Charlton (B), Mueller, Best, Kopa,
    Eusebio and Edu.

    
    England		Germany
    
       0		  1
    
    			  45' Karl-Heinz Riedle
    
    Spect; 59.493
    
    Germany started best and had a header in the post after 4 minutes by
    Guido Buchwald. The rest of the first half was of very high standard.
    Just before the half-time whisle, Riedle headed the ball behind Chris
    Woods, a beautiful cross-pass from Thomas Doll.
    
    Enlad had a few chanses as well. David Platt had a header in the
    crossbar, Arsenals Paul Merson had a very good chance of scoring, but
    Bodo Illgner took everything. Klinsmann was benched from the start, an
    played only the last 10 minutes.
    
    This first conference-info is coming from a SWEDISH morning paper!!
    Come on you guys, cant you take a defeat???
    
    Mats

    
    Vinnie
    
    >>	What's with this " EIRE "  shit.
    
       If I want to use the Gaelic I'll do so.....
    
       Ronan
       :-)))
    

    
    Switzerland		Sweden
    
        3	 	   1
    
    11' Chapuisat	89' Eriksson
    44' Herr
    52' Tuerkyilmaz
    
    A cofortable win for Switzerland. the Swedish defense had a lot of
    trouble controlling the quick Swiss forwards. Mats Gren played as a
    Sweeper and he was a catastrophy, Chapuisat dribbled him easy before he
    scored 1-0. The Swiss defense was very good, especially Dominique Herr
    who did no mistakes. Baumann was very close to be sent off after
    fouling Thomas Brolin.
    
    Sweden have do do something about the defense or else the Euro-92 will
    be a disaster. The offense is OK (24 goals in 9 games), and the
    midfield looks good to, exept for Jonas Thern.
    
    Sweden is playing a 4-nation tournament in Australia in january, does
    anyone know who the other three teams are?
    
    Mats

    
    Scotland will play two friendly's in North America next spring. They
    play USA in Denver 17 May, and Canada in Montreal or Toronto two days
    later.
    
    The last friendly for Scotland before Euro-92 is against Norway in Oslo
    8 June. Euro-92 starts 10 June.
    
    Mats

    Looks like an easy win for the USA against a Scotland team that have
    lost to the likes of Costa Rica, Egypt, Haiti, Peru etc over the years,
    they even struggled against Switzerland!!!!!

    When did Scotland lose to Haiti ?
    
    Wonderingly Yours,
    
    Kev...

    They lost in a friendly in 1902 in Haiti, I was there
    

    Yesterday, TF1 broadcast Auxerre - Bayern M�nchen
    
    Result: 3-2
    
    Goals: Cocard, Baticle, Roche
           Wohlfahrt (2)
    
    Entertaining game. Auxerre was the fitter of the two, and the wingers
    destroyed the opposition. Vahirua had a great start. Looked like Bayern
    were a shadow of their former selves, plus they were weak in the air.
    Auxerre had 9 corners in the first half. Great goals, especially the
    third, a volley by Roche that left Schumacher voiceless.
    
    As Auxerre was getting tired, Bayern came back with 2 great efforts by
    Wohlfahrt, still one of the best strikers in Europe.
    
    Watch Auxerre in the second part of the French League starting this
    Saturday.  Bayern fans can continue worrying.
    
    Cheers
    �JF?

    Republic of Ireland 0 - 1 Wales (Pembridge)
    
    England 2 - 0 France (Shearer, Lineker)
    
    Northern Ireland 0 - 1 Scotland (McCoist)
    
    Spain 4 - 0 San Marino
    
    	- Robin

    
    Italy - San Marino  4  0   

    Whats this.......No report from our Irish friends on Yesterdays
    meaningless game against the Welsh.Have you lot lost interest in
    Football again now your not involved in anything.You must have been
    disapointed you didnt manage to get the usual draw.
    
    Dave...

    2nd defeat in 30 matches isn't too bad. And the other 28 weren't all
    draws.......
    
    Any reports ?
    
    	- Robin

>>    Whats this.......No report from our Irish friends on Yesterdays
>>    meaningless game against the Welsh.Have you lot lost interest in
>>    Football again now your not involved in anything.You must have been
>>    disapointed you didnt manage to get the usual draw.
 
We were never that big headed. However when we felt that we had something to 
contribute we would express it in a manner fitting. Just look at France 
unbeaten in three years. We cannot be winning at home for ever. Give us a break
lad, If France beat England would you have entered this reply ?? 

I suppose the Rag press in England will hail the victory last night as another
MAJOR milestone on your road to victory next summer in Sweden.The various rags
will probably imply that the fact that England have beaten France will make 
them Favourites in Sweden to take the title. Oh how I hate reading printed 
s*%t. The gutter press have already made a carnival of last saturdays "game"
in Paris, I hope for the sake of football that the French are given a reprieve
for the Euro championships and the gutter press don't make a mockery of the 
games.

Rgds,
Tom

A very poor game in Dublin yesterday, and on the balance of play Wales did
not deserve to win. The winning goal came on 70 minutes when a long kick-out
by Southall was misjudged by O'Leary and Pembridge ran on to slip the ball 
past the advancing Bonner. A crowd of 15,100 watched the game that was lacking
the passion that is created when we play in Landsowne. The two best players
on the pitch were Bonner and Southall and they had only two saves each to make
so that really sums the game.
Switzerland are next on the agenda when they visit Landsowne on the 25th of 
March.

Btw, I predict that France will stuff the English in Malmo on the 14th of June.

�rian.
 

    
    Well one things for sure France will not stuff us in Sweden in fact 
    England will not get stuffed by anyone, England will do well in the
    European Championships, I will dissapointed if they don't reach the
    final thats how confident I am. Last night is phsycological blow
    for the French whether Platini wants to admit it or not you can't
    tell me that they didn't come to win they fielded a near full strength
    side and even though they dominated the first half they didn't create
    anything to trouble England's defence, England were well worth there
    victory in the end. Roll on the EURO championships, we are going to win
    it and you lot will be sick...............
    
                             Neil.....
    

    
    Re .27
    
    Why shouldn't the 'gutter' press hail England's victory as a MAJOR
    milestone on the road to victory next summer ?
    
    It was........ 
    
    - and at least we'll be there... and you haven't even got the rugby to
    keep you interested. (Am I allowed to mention rugby Mr Lowe ?)
    
    Paul                               

    No your not Paul....So we'll mention Cricket.So how sick will the O's
    and the McNotes be when we win the Rugby,Cricket and become Euro
    Champions all in the same year.That will set us up nicely for glory in
    the States in 1994.

    Do I detect that this 'friendly topic' is getting not so friendly?
    
    Noel
    

    re.31
    
    Yawn,
    
    More crap from a Hooray Noter
    
    Kev...

    Did you REALLY read Note 2.24?
    
    Do before it's too late, OK?
    
    Cheers
     �JF?

    Am I interpeting this correct!!! It says <Friendly Discussion>.
    
    This is the furthest thing from FRIENDLY!
    
    Let's turn those burners down a bit!
    
    Ciao
    Nick

    
    If the last two notes are pointing at ME, then I apologise. 
    
    It was just a saying I heard and thought very apt to one of the
    replies. There was no malice etc... connected. :)))
    
    mac

    
    Anyone have a report from the Leeds-Gothenburg game last saturday? I
    didn't read any papers on sunday, so i don't know the score!!
    
    Mats

    re -last
    
    The Leeds game you are after, was mentioned in the Leeds Topic
    (33),replies 410-416,
    but I don't know if anyone went. Put a note in there to see.
    
    Hope this helps, in the 'FRIENDLY' topic.
                         
    mac
    
    p.s. Is this better JC?????:))))

    Mac,
    
    Thanks for the suggestion.
    
    Your friend,
    
    Mats

    Glad to see so many English fans keen to get a report.  I would have
    posted it last night but our network crashed before I could post it but
    thankfully after I'd saved it.
    
    The bubble hasn't burst yet.
    

			Ireland 0 Wales 1

Ireland surrendered their 6 year unbeaten home record in a poor game.  Both
sides were missing key players and neither manager will have learned much
from the experience.

Wales started better and only some excellent goalkeeping from Packie Bonner
prevented them from taking the lead.  Gradually Ireland gained control and
Tony Cascarino spurned a great chance when Southall brought off a superb
point blank save.  Cascarino really should have scored.

The 2nd half was dominated by Ireland and chances were missed notable when
Liam Daish miskicked with Southall already committed.  The game had 0-0
written all over it when O'Leary left a long clearance and Mark Pembridge
nipped in to finish well.  O'Leary claimed there was a call but Bonner
said he didn't make it.

There was little consolation for Ireland.  Packie Bonner did well in goal.
Irwin and Daish were adequete.  O'Leary was poor throughout and Chris
Morris was Chris Morrish i.e. useless.  Terry Phelan did not fit into
Paul McGrath's role and Andy Townsend and Roy Keane were not as effective as
they were in Poland and Turkey.  Paul McGrath is a key member if the 5 man
midfield is to work.  John Byrne failed to make an impact on the right and
missed a great chance.  Kevin Sheedy played OK and also missed a great chance.
Cascarino got little support up front and was replaced by Quinn who did
marginally better.  Alan McLoughlin came on for the injured Andy Townsend
at half time and played very well.  John Aldridge replaced Phelan and
had his customary anonymous game in green.

For Wales, Southall was superb.  Is there a better keeper in Britain?  The
defence was solid with the Pompey debutant whose name escapes me looking good.
Barry Horne and Pembridge did well in midfield with Saunders and Hughes
failing to make an impact up front.  Mark Hughes only dived once.

The RDS has proved to be as unlucky for Ireland as it has been for Shamrock
Rovers who can't seem to win there either.  We didn't deserve to win but
another draw would have been a fair result.

The crowd was very muted and the handful of Welsh supporters made more noise.
Tickets were again scarce and many of the real supporters are losing out.

Finally I'm indebted to the person driving from Ballinasloe to Athlone last
night who flashed his lights to warn me of a speed trap (probably 2 diehard
GAA bigots out to catch football fans :-) ).  I duly went past at 55mph.
If by any chance you're reading this I owe you a pint.  If by any chance the
people I subsequently flashed are reading this mine's a Guinness.

Team  Bonner, Morris, Irwin, Daish, O'Leary, Byrne, Townsend (sub McLoughlin),
Phelan (sub Alridge), Keane, Sheedy, Cascarino (sub Quinn).

    Gary,
    
    Thanks for the brief match report. Was the Portsmouth player Gavin
    Maguire by any chance - if so i'm sure he already has a couple of caps.
    
    Having beaten Brazil, Germany and Ireland in the last 12 months we
    can't be all that bad for a team that can't qualify for anything.
    
    I'm sure the English press didn't give the game that much coverage 
    but I did hear that the South Wales Echo got a bit excited and
    described the victory as being against "one of the best european teams
    of the late 1980s" - I think that's a compliment (:==:)
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks

    
    Re -1, No he wasn't Gavin Maguire.  i said he played well.  :-)  His
    name was Scott something or other.
    
    I think we were one of the best European teams of the late 80s.  5th in
    Euro 88 and only 3 Euro teams had a better World Cup.  It was a
    great win for Wales but don't forget we won 3-0 in Wrexham last year.
    
    >So that's the double over Ireland this year!
    
    ARGGHH don't mention the Rugby or I might mention Western Samoa. :-)
    
    Gary.

    ���Was the Portsmouth player Gavin Maguire by any chance 

The Portsmouth player was Kit Symioms(sp). I had never heard of him before
Wednesday.

�rian.

A couple of friendlies involving Ireland in the U.S. have been formally 
announced. Ireland will play Italy on June 4 and agaisnt Portugal on June 7. 
Both matches will be played at Foxboro Stadium in Mass. Last year a USA-Ireland
match drew 51,000 to the same site. 

The Italy match is on a Thursdy afternoon. I'm not sure why they would schedule 
it this way, unless it is to be shown live on TV in Europe. They would certianly
get a better crowd if they started at 7:30 pm. The Portugal match is for 3:00 pm
Sunday. 

There is also a US-Ireland match scheduled for Washington DC, and a US-Portugal
match and possibly US-Italy in other cities (Chicago?) as well. I don't think 
Portugal and Italy will play, since they are in the same 1994 World Cup 
qualifying group.

I'll definitely be going to both games in Foxboro. Any other US-based noters 
going?

Tom

    Tom,
    
    Of course i'll be there. Do you have any phone numbers for tickets?
    
    I was planning on coming up via Washington to take in the Ireland
    game on (I think) may 30 - don't suppose you'd know about tickets
    for that also.
    
    I have Jose's home address/phone number if we want to book a block of
    tickets.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

Well, I just *KNEW* Atlanta's most infamous Welshman wouldn't pass this one up!
Details are a little sketchy right now. Last year, employee services gave a 
$2 discount on tickets (and they were great seats, too -- right on the midfield
line). I asked if they were doing it this year, but they weren't sure. 

My indoor team, the Maynard WhiteFish, will probably all be going, so we'll be
ordering a block of tickets for the Portugal game. You and Jose and anyone else 
are more than welcome to join us. Maybe the thing to do is for everyone to meet 
at a mutually conventient Digital site and take as few cars as possible, since 
they were charging $10 a car for parking. It will also make it easier to meet 
people, instead of wandering around the stadium parking lot.

I'll put in more details as they get sorted out. As for the Washington game, you
might try calling the RFK Stadium box office. The Washington organizing group 
lost a ton o money on the North Korea (big drawing card) friendly in November, 
so they insisted on hosting the US-Ireland match to make back some money. I 
think the stadium is right in DC, near a Metro station, so it's easy to get 
in/out, unlike suburban monstrosities like Foxboro...  

Cheers,

Tom

    -2
    Italy and Portugal are playing May 31st in New Haven, Conn.  Should be
    quite a match considering that both teams are in the same WC Qualifying
    Group.  You know I will attend the Italy - Portugal and the Ireland -
    Portugal matches.  Portugal has a very talented young team.  The
    average age is 23, but they have plenty of experience.  Some of them
    have over 50 international games under their belt.  Hopefully Futre and
    Rui Barros will come.  Players to look for - Peixe, Figo, Joao Pinto. 
    This is best team that Portugal has produced in quite some time and you
    will see them for quite a while.  As soon as anyone has any ticket
    information, please let us know.
    
    Keep on kicking,
    
         Joe

Joe, didn't Portugal win the youth World Cup against Brazil? I would think that 
a lot of those players would be on the "A" national side in time for the 1994 
World Cup.  

Tom

My wife and I will be going to both games, and maybe my brother in law.

Why don't we go as a group?  Be more fun that way.

I also bet that Sergio Cozzone, DEC employee and once contributor
to the conference will want to go.  how  about Ernesto Guerrieri...is
he still around?

F.

    re .49
    Tom, as a matter of fact, Portugal won the last 2 U21 WC in row.  You
    are right most of the current national squad is from U21 WC Teams.  The
    current coach of the national team is the same person the coached both
    U21 WC Teams.  The players that I mentioned in my previous note are
    from those teams.  
    
    Keep on kicking
    
    Joe

Well, I asked employee services, and she hadn't heard these matches were going
to be definite. It seems the way they hear about these things is from employees
showing thier interest.  She went on to say that last year's match was such a
big success -- apparently a ton of DEC people ordered tickets through them. She
said she was going to call the ticket office right away and negotiate a deal for
tickets, so keep your eyes peeled for those flyers on the bulliten board.

She also said that Foxboro was definitely one of the 12 final sites. Now, I 
don't know where she heard this, and I told her that we were definitely being
CONSIDERED, but that was the last I had heard. They should be deciding soon. 
I don't know if they are going to wait until after the games this summer,to see
which cities will draw well. One of the things that works in Boston's favor is 
that Ireland, Italy and Portugal are all big draws. Now if it was the Central 
African Republic vs Chile, that could be a different story....

Tom

This is the scoop on tickets for the Foxboro matches: 

Since Italy-Ireland is being played on a Thursday afternoon, Employee Services
didn't seem to think the company should encourage people to take the afternoon
off from work by selling discount tickets. C'mon, this is a FITBA MATCH! What's
wrong with them?

They still might give discount tickets to the Portugal-Ireland match on Sunday,
but I'll definitely know by Thursday if they are going to do this. A bunch of us
are planning on getting a block of tickets or the Sunday match either way, but 
if we could save a few bucks, that's more beer money!

As for the Thursday match, it would probably be easiest for people to get their
own tickets, and we could possibly make plans to meet up before the match. You
can get them by calling TicketMaster at (617) 931-2000 or TicketPro toll free,
at (800) USA-GOAL (that's 872-4625).

Andrew Wicks, are you planning on coming up this way for one or both of the 
matches? You also asked about the games in Denver and Washington, but my best
guess would be to call the respective stadium box offices and they could tell 
you where you could get them. It's RFK Stadium in Worshinen, and Mile High 
Stadium in Denver. By the way, I ran into an old mate of yours, Daniel Medvid. 
He said that whenever you would come up to Charlotte that instead of doing
actual work, you guys would spend the morning playing "proper football" and the 
afternoon playing American football. Must be a rough life! 

Cheers,

Tom

    Last night, in Le Parc des Princes in Paris:
    
    		FRANCE	3 -  3   BELGIUM
    Vahirua, Papin (2)           Albert, Scifo, Wilmots
    
    Att.: 25,000+
    
    Highly entertaining friendly game between 2 teams with good spirit.
    Platini tried a new defence for 50 minutes and France conceded 3 goals.
    Scifo had a superb game for Belgium, I don't think he lost the ball
    ONCE.
    
    Cantona was great and delivered perfect passes to Papin who missed 2
    sitters, unusual for him.
    
    Belgium went ahead after 30 minutes when Boli headed straight to Albert
    who went for a 1-2 with Nilis and was alone in front of Martini for the
    1-0.
    
    Cantona set up Vahirua who was apparently knocked down - Penalty, Papin
    for the equaliser.
    
    2 minutes left and Boli brought down his opponent - Penalty, Scifo for
    the 1-2.
    
    1 minute left and Cantona for Papin who can't control, the ball bounces
    back to Vahirua who scores on the spot, 2-2.
    
    At half-timee, I went outside to arrange the laundry neatly and came
    back. After 30 minutes I realized that Belgium was ahead 3-2, a superb
    goal one minute the 2nd half, according to our favorite commentators.
    
    The pace was slackening when Boli sprung forward on the right wing,
    took his chance and, like a professional winger, crossed back to the
    penalty spot where Papin did the most extraordinary high back volley
    which almost broke the net! Fantastic goal, hope you can see it, one of
    the best of the year.
    
    2 minutes later Angloma had a great chance, again a backhead volley but
    it went wide.
    
    The French had close to 10 clear chances and only scored 3 goals when
    the Belgium had about 4 chances and materialized 3. That's football.
    
    Not to worry, with the standard defensive line-up and the still
    powerful attack, France should be a strong contender in Sweden.
    
    Sweeper Laurent Blanc was missing by the way.
    
    Football can be pleasant when you play it that way.
    
    Cheers
    �JF?
                   

    An interesting match, considering the EC finals. I thought Boli showed the 
    same spirit that Tigana used to display - most importantly in the EC semi
    final against Portugal - never say die. His run that brought the 2nd Papin
    goal seemed a lost cause, yet his cross arrived for Papin to show whyhe
    is one of the top strikers in Europe. For the finals, I just hope that JPP
    doesn't continue to tumble once he's inside the penalty area. He
    doesn't need to resort to those type of tactics.

    
    re 55 - you're quite right about JPP. When things weren't going his way
    (missing two one-on-ones with the keeper) he resorted to falling over
    unnecessarily and putting his hand up, appealing for God knows what,
    probably out of sheer embarrassment for his misses. Or maybe he just
    needed to go to the toilet ??
    
    A shame - since later he DID remind us all of his incredible talent ...

    
     The England team to face the C.I.S tonight is
    
     Woods
     Stevens
     Keown
     Walker
     Sinton
     Palmer
     Platt
     Steven
     Shearer
     Lineker
     Daly
    
     Dave...

    
    
      C.I.S    2        England    2
    
      Tzkhadadze 43     Lineker 15
      Kirayakov  55     Steven  71
    
    
      Att-25,000
    
      dave...

    
    Daley........Good/worked hard
    Lineker......As usual
    Platt........Worked hard
    Woods........Couple of nice stops
    Palmer.......IMO. Useless. Maybe another game for him.
    Stevens......Good/worked hard
    Sinton.......Needs more time
    Walker.......Bit quiet
    Keown........Not quite into it
    Shearer......Dunno
     ----------------------
    Curle........Not on long enough
    Clough.......Effective immediately. Excellent through balls to Lineker
                 and Stevens.
    Martyn.......Dunno. No work to do.
    
    On the whole there was some nice football played by England and indeed
    CIS but the game looked static at times. I thought the English defence
    was a bit skinnable. Lineker should have score after being put through
    by Clough. The same thing has happoned to Stevens as happened to Waddle.
    Since playing football abroad Stevens playing ability has improved ten
    fold. Waddle should also be in the team but Taylors got the dog with him
    anyway. With a bit of luck Gazza will be back for the European finals.
    
    JN.

    
    Sweden	-     Poland
    
      5			0
    
    A clear victory over a week Poland. Sweden played 4-3-3, and i'm not
    sure that it will be the right model against France and England.
    Kenneth Andersson had a great game, scored two goals and passed to one.
    He is benched in Mechelen (coach relation problem?) so he was eger to
    show Tommy Svensson his capacity. Klaes Ingesson also played very well.
    
    In 1990 we beated Finland 6-0 just before the WC, and we was concidered
    to be the next World Champions by the newspapers. This time everyone
    agrees that the Poles (sp?) was much to poor to count as a strong
    opponent. We play a last friendly against Hungary on May 27:th before
    the Euro-92.
    
    This is amazing, playing friendlys against nations like Tunisia, Poland
    and Hungary when there is such good nations as Ireland, Denmark, Spain
    and Italy available for good competition? OK, you have to build up good
    confedence, but the best way to do that must be to play and beat better
    nations.
    
    Mats

    
    The England team to play Hungary tonight:
    
    1) Martyn
    2) Stevens
    3) Dorigo
    4) Keown
    5) Walker
    6) Curle
    7) Platt ==> Can't remember whether this is right.
    8) Palmer
    9) Merson
    10) Lineker
    11) Daley
    
    First time in the starting line-up for Martyn and Curle, who therefore
    need to impress, along with Stevens, Dorigo, Merson and Daley, to stand
    a chance of a place in the final twenty.
    
    jeff

    My paper says Webb instead of Platt.
    
    Nigel

    
    Quite right, my mistake.
    
    Your humble servant,
    
    jeff

    
    My paper says Webb as well. 
    
    Some one tell me pleeeeeaaaase. Am I being to harsh in saying 
    that Carlton Palmer is useless ???? How do you think he played 
    in the last England game ??
    
    Is Webby really worth his salt or is he past it ??
    
    I believe that Nigel Clough should be in the starting line up. Am
    I wrong there as well ??
    
    JN.

    
    Hungary 0  England 1 (Webb via a Hungarian defender)
    
    Judging by last night's highlights, this was an exceedingly crap game.
    Not quite sure what Mr Taylor will learn from it: Curle and Martyn only
    got one half whilst Ian Wright got a paltry 20 mins. to show his worth.
    Brazil this Sunday, so I expect to see another eleven players prove
    that 90 mins is not long enough to build an understanding.
    
    jeff

    
      It wasnt the best of games.....but England won.Surely Taylor will
    pick the 11 that will play in Sweden,against Brazil.Its a little
    worrying to think he might not have even decided which system to use in
    Sweden.Starting with a sweeper,then reverting to a flat back 4 in the
    second half.
      Time is running out now only Sundays game then Finland on June 6th.
    
     Tony Daly had another good game,as did Webb.These two probably booked
    there places in the final 20,as to what the starting 11 will be,I think
    only Woods,Walker,Platt and Lineker(Pierce if fit) are certain to
    start.
    
    Dave...

    
    I see Carlton Palmer had another good game. :-)
    
    Is Taylor happy with Clough therefore he doesn't feel the
    need to test him any further.
    
    JN.

    Yep, another convincing England win, the whole of Europe must be
    shi*ting themselves.
    
    Do you think Taylor knows his best 11/12/13 and is just experimenting
    to see who will make up the numbers ??
    
    		Brian.

    
    I don't think Taylor knows he's doing. The team will not gel
    into a 'TEAM' while he keeps chopping and changing.
    
    JN.

    
    I get the feeling that Taylor's looking beyond the summer and
    establishing a large squad of players with international experience in
    readiness for the world cup qualifiers. At least, I hope that's the
    rationale behind his selections since what can you learn from giving
    players the odd half here and there, trying to fit in with a constantly
    changing team. As I said previously, Ian Wright got twenty mins last
    night to prove his worth, so consequently, whenever he got the ball
    (about four times), he tried to do something spectacular. Hardly fair
    to judge a man under these circumstances.
    
    jeff

    Bring in Big Ron, he knows a thing or two about flair sides and
    jewellry. He also wears striking suits and can rattle off a Sinatra
    toon or a quick-fire gag at a moments notice. It's about time we
    had a manager with a bit of Rock n Roll instead of some earnest
    puritan weasel. Believe me.
    
    barry.  
    

Re .70

It's all right giving people international experience, but when every
isn't, never was, and never will be's of the 1st divison gets a cap then
the whole thing becomes a farce.

I don't see what Taylor is playing at. For instance, he know's how bad
Seamen is -- why give him another chance to prove it?

I wonder if Rob Jones has blown his chances; fancy wanting to take part
in the Liverpool homecoming rather than play for your country.

Ok,
	Seamen it's playing great for England, but what about him in 90-91 season
nobody could get anything past him!!! eg the game at white hart lane


I rest my case my lord!!!

Mick

    
    RE -1
    
    On those grounds then I wonder if Gordon Banks fancies a game !!!
    
    I rest everybody else in Englands case !!
    
    Gary..

Anybody know the time of the game on Sunday? Also, anybody know whether it's on
any of the satellite channels?

Cheers
Jamie 

    England - Brazil Sunday 17 May, Wembley, KO 3|0, live on Sky Sports,
    highlights on BBC 1 at 8|50.
    
    jb.

Anybody know where I can get some Boddies (ooer!) on the Cote d'Azur?

On a more serious note I've got a lot confidence in Graham Taylor. At 
international there's no such thing a settled team apart from during actual
tournaments. His strategy seems to be to give alot of lads a taste of
footy at the highest level, try out different systems, get them to be flexible
and then hope they do it for him when it counts.

Living abroad the thing that I hear most of all about England is that they
are inflexible and always play the same way  and don't hold any surprises.

I much prefer Taylor to Robson because he'll try new things whereas Robson
only did when forced to. Also Robson, to me, never seemed confident always
worrying and getting upset whereas Taylor seems more on top of things and
I'm sure this kind of thing affects the players. Shankly and Clough both
got pretty ordinary players to play at the highest level just through
instilling confidence and self-belief.

Cheers
Jamie 

    
    England  1  -  1  Brazil
    (Platt)           (Babeto)
    
    England scrape a draw when, from the highlights at least, they were
    made to look stupid by a classy Brazil side. The experiment with Platt
    joining Lineker from midfield didn't work, despite his goal, because
    Lineker was too often isolated meaning England's attacks always broke
    down in the final third of the pitch. Woods made some excellent saves
    but occasionally his flawed judgement put extra pressure on the
    overworked defence, which seemed shaky throughout.
    
    Individually, none of England's players stood out, except Gary Stevens
    whose uncanny ability to make goal-producing mistakes remains as good
    as ever. With Rob Jones out injured, Stevens will almost certainly play
    against Yugoslavia; if they can stop shooting each other for a few
    minutes, I expect the Yugoslavs will not be unhappy at this prospect.
    
    jeff

    
    	And the gruesome twosome (Chinny Hill and Terry Venerial) both
    	think Beardsley should still be playing for England...
    
    	Sheesh. These guys are meant to be experts....
    
    	Andy.

    
    Ah yes, but Chinny would only have Beardsley in if Barnes wasn't fit.
    Of course this would mean that he'd playing wide on the left where he's
    never played in his life but you don't want to worry about minor
    details like that. After all, it wasn't a penalty Alan, he was going
    for the ball, you could tell by his line of attack, burble, burble
    gibber, gibber....
    
    jeff

    
    Beardsley played on the left for Wallsend boys club when he was 12.
    So get your facts right ;-)
    
    Tim

    
    Well, there you have it. Positive proof that Jimmy Hill is totally sane
    and knows more about football than John Motson does about being a
    boring, predictable prat. He should be appointed manager immediately.
    
    jeff 

    Scotland 3 Canada 1
    
    Again World Service decided not to give more details - is this a sign
    of cutbacks at the Beeb.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    McAllister got two - McCoist the other.
    
    Paul

	The game was played at Varsity Stadium in Toronto before almost
	11000 people including myself. It was a terrific spring evening
	with the temperature about 68 degrees.

	The game was a somewhat phycial game including 2 yellow cards
	with Randy Samuel getting one and Richard Gough being a little
	unfortunate to get one. Randy Samuel was Ally McCoist's shadow
	for most of the game and this was a very physical battle.

	Scotland played well but they were playing an outclassed Canadian
	team. I'm surprised that Scotland have played Canada and the US
	when they are preparing for the European Championships. I would
	think that Scotland would be looking for a little stiffer test.
	
	Canada were physical, they didn't seem intimidated by the Scots
	but lacked the skill and finess needed keep up with the Scots.

	Man of the match was Gary McAllister who scored twice but was also
	very involved and did a tremendous amount of productive running.
	His first came at the 23 min. mark. Gary was a little fortunate to
	get a lucky bounce off of a Canadian defender to put him clean
	through but was very cool in placing the ball in the far low corner
	of the net.

	Two minutes before halftime, Canada equalised when John Catliff
	rocked a left footer into the top corner from about 10 yards out
	after a good far post cross from Carl Valentine.

	The second half started slowly with Canada playing 5 men across
	the back and Scotland having difficulty penetrating the defense.
	At the 68 min. mark, Scotland were awarded a free kick about 25
	yards straight out from goal. Gary McAllister hit a low hard
	curling shot that bounced in front of the Canadian keeper. The
	keeper, Craig Forrest of Ipswich Town (who Liverpool have shown
	interest in) could not handle the shot and gifted a rebound to
	Ally McCoist who easily slotted the rebound from about 6 yards out.

	The next 18 minutes were uneventful until Canada's Lyndon Hooper
	was called for pulling down Maurice Malpas down in the penalty
	area. Gary McAllister slotted home the penalty.

	The last few minutes was all Canada trying to make the score look
	good but their lack of finishing let them down and the score finished
	3 - 1 for Scotland.

	I believe the starting 11 for Scotland was:

	Smith Boyd Gough McPherson McLaren McStay McAllister
	McCall Durie McCoist Ferguson

	Malpas, McClair and McKimmie came into the game as subs - each
	team was allowed 5 subs.

	Overall it was a very enjoyable evening althought there were
	the usual loonies brawling in the stands and there were several
	cups of beer tossed from above.

Jim - who is looking forward to Ireland vs Italy in Boston on June 4

    Jim,
    
    thanks for the match report - one question was the CArl
    Valentine you mention the ex Stoke Player?
    
    So are you going to meet up with the rest of us before the Italy game?
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks 

Andrew,

	I'm not sure if it is or not, I do believe the Carl Valentine
	that plays for Canada did indeed play in England at one time
	but I'm not sure who for.

	I do know that Carl has been playing in Vancouver several years,
	first for the Vancouver Whitecaps of the old NASL and now with
	the Vancouver 86's of the CSL.

	As for the Italy game, sure I wouldn't getting together before
	the game - let me know whats going on. I will be in the office on
	Tuesday but I will be leaving for Boston on Wednesday morning.

Jim 

    
    England's team for the match against Finland tomorrow:
    
    1) Woods
    2) Stevens
    3) Pearce
    4) Walker
    5) Wright
    6) Keown
    7) Webb
    8) Steven
    9) Platt
    10) Lineker
    11) Barnes
    
    Notable points: a five-man defence and NO Palmer or Batty. Does this
    mean we're going to try and play football?
    
    jeff

    Quote from Taylor - "The fans shouldnt expect too much from John
    Barnes".
    
    Like having a decent game for once.
    
    Nigel

                          
    > Like having a decent game for once.
    
    how often do you see the guy make a mistake?
    just because he doesnt tear the defence to pieces on blistering 40 yard
    runs and slam a perfect shot into the bottom corner doesnt mean he's
    rubbish. 
    Who do you want? Roy of the Rovers???
    he wont reproduce his Liverpool form because Liverpool are more of a
    team than England, because they play together each week.
    His style of play needs that teamwork, because when he does that little
    flick on, there has to be someone there to pick it up, when he plays
    for England, he doesnt do it, because no-one knows where theyre
    supposed to be.
    I guess the answer is for more training for the national team so that
    they learn to play together.
    
    Ian.

    
    
    Re-1
    
      You dont need a good team around you to take people on and beat
    them,he does that for Liverpool,but not for England.He seems reluctant
    to take people on when he plays for England.
       Although you can count his good games for England on one hand,I
    think he should play.We are short of real quality in the England
    team,he is the only player with real flair,in the team.I agree with
    Taylor risking him.He can unlock defences on his day,you never know his
    day might be Sweden 92.I hope so.
    
    Dave...

    Re .91..

       Ian I agree with what you say, Barnes plays better football when the
players around him are good ones, like Rush, Saunders, Nicol, Houghton, Molby.
When he plays on the English team he has usually crap around him with the
exceptance of Lineker. Iam not surprised the lad doesn't play good football
when he puts on an English shirt. 



                                                                -dave-

    
    I wouldn't say that the players are better but that the style of play
    at Liverpool suits Barnes more than England's style does. With
    Liverpool (at their best, at any rate), Barnes gets the ball more often
    in dangerous areas and, because the work off the ball is so good, has
    more options to choose from. With England, the play is often static,
    with few midfield runners and a complete lack of understanding; Barnes
    can't beat a whole team so if there's no-one to pass to, he's bound to
    lose the ball eventually. In other words, Barnes can't play for England
    like he does for Liverpool for the very simple reason that England
    don't play like Liverpool.
    
    Having said that, I do think that Barnes could do with a kick up the
    pants every now and then. When things go wrong, his head tends to drop
    and he just drifts out of the game; maybe Taylor, his former mentor,
    can get the best out of him. Here's  hoping.
    
    jeff

    jeff,
    
    yeah, exactly my point (though you put it better than i did!),
    England dont play like Liverpool, so you cant expect Barnes to play the
    same, however, he's still incredibly lazy sometimes.
    
    Ian.

    
    Warning
    
    If you're going to watch the England game hit Next Unseen (unless
    you're using decwindows..)
    
    
    Finland 1  - 2 England  (Platt 2)
    
    No other details
    
    Paul

    
    Apparently John Barnes is injured so I guess England will have to do
    without his creative genius....
    They could play Mickey Phelan instead......:-):-):-):-):-):-):-)
    
    Greg....

    
    Yes, as I predicted in note 89.89, Barnes managed to get himself
    injured last night and is out of the European Championships. A ruptured
    achilles did for him after about 15mins. England are to appeal to UEFA
    for a replacement; Andy Sinton is standing by. Gary Stevens was also
    injured and is also doubtful.
    
    As for the game.....
    
    jeff

    
    Andy Sinton ?  Andy Ffffing Sinton ?
    
    
    What will it take for this man to come to his senses and take Waddle ?
    
    Adam.

    What about Beardsley.
    
    Barnes just wanst fit and Taylor should have forgotten about him months
    ago. By pushing him now he might have ended his career. Its like going
    back to 86 when Robson was trying to get Robo Man fit for the world cup
    , when he should have dumped him and got on with the job with the men
    he had.
    
    Taylor doesnt seem to know what hes doing , I can see another
    humiliation for England , I hope im wrong , I just cant see who is
    going to score the goals - Platt and Lineker and who else??
    
    Nigel

    
    re .100
    
    � Barnes just wanst (sic) fit...
    
    Not being a medical man, I don't see how having a thigh injury
    increases your chances of getting a ruptured achilles tendon.
    
    jeff

    Scotland were poor last night.
    
    jb.

    re-1
    
    that is an understatement !!
    
     SQF Jambo

    
    The latest is that Keith Curle is now on stand-by, Sinton will probably
    miss out. Taylor seems to think that Curle will be better cover for the
    injured, and now withdrawn, Barnes and the doubtful Stevens.
                               
    Hmmmmmmm
    
    Paul

    
    Italy   3-1  Ireland
    
    Yet another setback for Jack Charlton's all-stars - still, you can all
    enjoy watching England in the European championships......
    
    Paul

    
    Re -1,
    
    It was 2-0 and we'll all enjoy watching England in their 3 games this
    month.
    
    Gary (following Scotland, Denmark, Sweden and France).

    
    
    Re-1
    
      Gary...Why wont you be supporting Ireland..................
    
    
      Oh yes......I forgot.
      
      Dave...

    >  Gary...Why wont you be supporting Ireland..................
    
    For the same reason that you won't be supporting THFC in Europe next
    year.........
    
    	- Robin

    
    United States   0  Australia   1
    
    The US are brought back to earth after their results against Italy,
    Ireland and Portugal.
    
    This game was played in a violent electrical storm in Orlando, at
    one stage the ref took the players off the pitch to avoid being
    hit by lightning.
    
    We might have to take American 'soccer' seriously now but their
    commentators are still coming to grips with the game ...
    
    "and with the score at zero-zero, with 11 minutes of regular time
     left and no overtime scheduled ..."
    
    and they picked the "play of the game" and "Most Valuable Player" 
    with 11 minutes of the game left ! This made them look a bit silly
    when Australia scored 5 minutes from the end.

    That is rather stupid to pick the MVP, etc when the game isn't even
    over. My gripe is the Sunday paper had this result (which normally is
    great0 but no mention at all of any of the European matches. After all,
    the European championships are olny the second biggest tournament in
    the worls after the World Cup, so I can see how a US-OZ freindly would
    be more important.
    
    Tom

    
    	The England squad to face Spain is as follows:
    
    	Woods/Seamen/Martyn
    
    	Jones/Dixon/Pearce/Dorigo/Walker/M Wright/Adams
    
    	Platt/Steven/Batty/Palmer/Merson/Sinton/White/R Wallace
    
    	Shearer/Clough/I Wright/Deane
    
    	On stand by are:
    
    	James
    	Pallister
    	G Thomas/Ince
    	Campbell

Kinda quiet in here this morning!!!

For those not in the know the result was

	Spain	1 - 0	England

I only saw the highlights on the Beeb, but it looked a very entertaining game.
In the first 10 minutes when England looked like they were going to dominate. 
White was unlucky not to score with his first touch in international football,
and they played the ball around nicely. Then the Spanish scored what has to be a
lucky goal. Vasquez (Sp??) shot hit Fonseca, who turned and only had Woods to
beat, and he did so.

Vasquez was most definitely the star of the show. I'd give him 11 out of 10. He
was involved all over the pitch, and I don't recall him putting a foot wrong, 
with the exception of his shot after 15 mins which he should have put in. His
back heel to Michel was great to watch, taking out 2 defenders, and Michel was
unlucky with the resultant lob.

England seemed totally devoid of any ideas in front of goal. However, there was
some good footbal played and once the new boys start to settle down, I can see
the goals starting to come.

I hate to say it but the only time that England looked really dangerous was when
Carlton Palmer came on. He had the bit between his teeth, and actually looked
like he wanted England to score.

That's England's only friendly of the season. Next game is Norway in a month on
the road to the USA. Taylor could do a lot worse than use the same starting line
up. We shall see!!

	Al

Two results from the Dutch front

Germany U21 - Holland U21  0-1


Holland - Italy  2 - 3


I only saw the first half and Holland scored twice in the first 20 minutes
and it looked like a comfortable win but then the Azuri stroke back and
within 10 minutes they had their first goal, a penalty wich wasn't one
leveled the score to 2-2 just before half time.

The second half I didn't see so I can't comment on that but the "problem"
with the Dutch is they play with only 2 defenders and 3 to 4 attackers and
this is almost suicide in International football.

T_

    I saw the game on SKY and I thought England were rubbish.They were
    completly outplayed in the first half,and were very lucky to be only
    one down.The defending was a joke,the off the ball movement of the
    Spaniards was good and England who spent the whole game ball watching
    couldnt deal with it.The only reason they came back into it was that
    Spain made about 6 substitutions in the second half.
      It was just another in along line of poor performances by England,and
    unless things improve,we wont Qualify for the World Cup.
    
    Dave...who is less than happy with Graham Taylor.
    
    

re:-1

Where have all the skilful players gone, asks a puzzled Jimmy Hill.

Errr....nowhere.

Glen Hoddle, Chris Waddle, Paul Merson (not sure about that one), Peter Beardsley,
Tony Daley, Nigel Clough, John Fashanu :-).

All suspiciously present in the English league. And I'm sure that this list isn't
exhaustive.

In fact, I reckon that if Taylor begged a bit, even the sainted Mr Lineker 
might play again.

In truth, he's not helped by the big clubs refusing to release players for 
international duty, but he's still (in my humble opinion) a v. poor manager 
indeed. 

Mike

    Does anybody know what the England line-up was last night ?? I'd be
    interested in having a good laugh 8-) I hope for Graham Taylors sake
    that he does know what he's doing.
    
    Keith. (a disappointed Englishman... once again!)

    Woods
    Dixon (Bardsley, Palmer)
    Pearse
    Ince
    Walker
    Wright
    White (Deane)
    Platt
    Clough
    Shearer
    Sinton (Merson)

Woods
Pearce
Dixon
Wright
Walker
Ince
Platt
White
Clough
Shearer
Sinton

subs used: Palmer
           Bardsley
           Deane
           Someone else

    Englands right back position must be cursed :-
    
    	Jones    X
    	Stevens  X
        Dixon    X
        Bardsley X
    
    I reckon it must have been cast by one of the gypsies playing in the Premier
    League. Choose from :-
    
    	Tery Hurlock                   
    	Mark Hughes
        The guy who plays for West Ham
    	Paul Walsh
        Frank Worthington (N.E. Premier League)
    	
    Any others ??
    	
        

    
    	England were fortunate to be even still in the game at � time.
    	Apart from a couple of chances early on, once Spain scored we
    	were massacred for 30 minutes. 
    
    	The 2nd � was a shambles, with all the substitutions. Also Wright
    	knobbled Fonseca with an horrendous lunge, and he was subbed as a 
    	result of the injury he sustained. Fonseca had linked well with
    	Martin Vasquez and really taken our back four to the cleaners.
    
        1-0 was a good result for us. It could easily have been about 4-1.
        
    	Andy.

    
    
    
    Clash of the 3-times world champions:
    
    	Brasil    3 - 1   Germany
    
        Enrice (sp?)	  Sammer
    	Branco
    	Jorginho
    
    A deserved win for Brasil against a German group of 11 players
    (not a team !!). Although 3 German players had their first cap
    it wasn't their fault. The midfield was hopeless and the whole
    team lacked fighting spirit.
    
    The first goal from Enrice (sp?) was a lovely, practically standing
    shot from 17m into the right triangle. No defender within 5m and
    Ilgner a bit to far off the goal line.
    The second goal was a bit lucky. A long pass into the centre of the 
    German half with Branco running after it and a German defender close
    behind. Ilgner came out and tried to clear the ball about 15m in front
    of the penalty area. Doing so the shot is deflected off Branco's knee
    exactly in the opposite direction and, like a lob in tennis, into the 
    German goal.
    The German goal came from a pass from the centre line area. Brasil
    obviously tried to play offside which left Sammer all alone to a
    one on one with the Brasilian goalie Taffarel, which he won with a 
    flat shot right underneath the diving goalie.
    Just before the end Jorginho scored a lovely goal from the right, when,
    what at first looked like a cross, caught Ilgner again too far in 
    front of the goal and went into the 'short corner' of the goal.
    
    National coach Berti Vogts seemed pretty mad about the German
    performance, especially the midfield.
    
    The consequences will be seen on Sunday, when they play Uruguay.
    
    Eduard

    The player's name is Henrique. Plays for AS Monaco in the French
    League. Although a regular in Brazil he has yet to convince French 
    crowds although his latest performances indicate he has now adapted to
    French life and style of play.
    
    JF

    Ok so it's not a friendly, but can anyone tell me how I could go
    about getting tickets for the England v. San Marino game on Feb 17th?
    Telephone number would be appreciated.
                    
    thanks
    DaveT

Hi Dave,

Wembley BO is 081 900 1234

g

Thanks Grahame.

>> I didn't know your wife was a San Marino fan?
---
yep, she is, and I'm going to give her a surprise next Wednesday ;-)
dt

    DaveT,
    
    You old romantic you! Bet she'll be surprised.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    ..at �22 a ticket, he better be!
    dt

    
    Germany	- Ghana
    
    1st half: me making diner and rushing to the silent TV (ladiy was
    studying) whenever possible
    
    Germany making a lot of pressure, but not creating too many good
    chances. A free kick, Bein passing to Matth�us, whose shot misses the
    goal by only half a meter. On the other side, Polley suddenly appeared
    in the German box, lobbing Koepke but missing the German goal as well.
    After 38 mins the ball was in the Ghanean (huh?) net, but after a
    deliberate handball from Klinsmann, who should have been booked for
    that. Whith one minute to go in the first half, Helmer deflects Abedi
    Pele's shot,  Koepke tries to reach the ball but misses. The ball drops
    on the bar, comes back to the field and Prince Polley reacts more
    quickly than Buchwald. 0-1.
    
    Halftime. Lunchtime.
    
    Second half: Lady goes back studying. Me doing the dishes, dashing to
    the TV, dishes in the left, towel in the right hand.
    
    At first it looked like the German team still couldn't find a way to
    create good chances. Kirsten is in for Riedle. In the 69th minute a
    long pass from Thon to Kirsten, who looked offside to me, Kirstem goes
    unchallenged and finally passes the keeper to make it 1-1. Watch the
    slo-mo and back to the kitchen. At my next visit in the living-room I
    saw a whole lot of players in Ghana's box, a lot of defenders rushing
    to Klinsmann, Effenberg grabbing the ball, one sidestep, a sudden shot
    at the goal and the ball is in the net. The announcement bar says:
    Germany 4 Ghana 1. Seems like I missed something. Some minutes later
    Klinsmann outplaying a defender in the box, a shot at the goal from a
    difficult angle, but the keeper seemingly expected a backpass. 5-1.
    Back to the kitchen, cleaning up. Back to the TV. Game is over.
    German coach speaking of a convincing 6-1 victory. 
    I missed another one :-(
       
    	Germany 	6 - 1	Ghana
    				Prince Polley 44'
    	Kirsten 69'
    	Effenberg 70'
    	Klinsmann 70'
    	Effenberg 80'
    	Klinsmann 87'
    	M�ller 90'
    
    Heiko
    

>    Second half: Lady goes back studying. Me doing the dishes, dashing to
>    the TV, dishes in the left, towel in the right hand.

I know the feeling. I've missed many a goal like this too.

Al

    >>Why can't they study in another room ???
    
    If she'd have studied in the kitchen, she could have done the washing
    up as well. ;^)

   Heiko I had more fun, I left for the local (pub) with about 65mins gone in
the game with Ghana ahead 1-0. No dishes, no lady studying books on how to wash
up etc!!!!(::)... What kind of man are ya anyway washing up dishes during a
footie game?????  

                                                                  -dave-

Anyone know when and where England are playing their first friendly under
venables? It's against Denmark I think, but I know nowt more about it.

As an aside, venables is meeting fat Gazza today to discuss his England future.

mike

    
    
    Venables thinking of quiting already and why talk to Gazza about it..
    
    March 3 or 4 I think....
    
    Neil...
    

    nothing to do with friendlies, I know, but did anyone see Gazza playing
    for Lazio against Cremonese last weekend? I thought he played a stormer, 
    although he looked absolutely knackered half way thru the 2nd half

Against Germany  in Berlin me thinks and on Der Furhers birthday as well.
March the 3rd/4th. 

The game was moved from Munich and Dusseldorf( ? ) because of the fear of Nazi
demonstrations.

Peter(AIC)

    Denmark at Wembley on March 9th
    Germany in Berlin (possibly) on April 20th-ish
    
    Paul
    

    Why don't the Poms do something sensible like invite the Australian
    team over for a five "test" series a la the Ashes? Neither of us are in
    the World Cup (tho our exit was *slightly* more honourable than yours),
    many of the  Australian players will have just finished in Europe, all
    the token football fans will be locked in post-FA pre-World Cup limbo
    and then there's 200 years of hate to fire up your quality press.
    
    How about it? Best of 5 in late May, early June.
    
    I can safely predict we wouldn't win 4-0, 4-0 or 4-1. Ha ha ha...
    
    (This is actually a serious suggestion.)
    
    Ica

    Are you going to have Shane Warne in your team.. I could imagine
    him spinning the ball into the top corner!! ;-)
    
    
    Rick

    If he ever stopped complaining, maybe.
    
    But we have another blonde, also from Melbourne, who could do the
    trick... Paul Trimboli, a class player (in our league). 
    
    Maybe you could put Border in goals and just pretend it's Seaman -
    slow, over-rated, poor eye-hand coordination, dodgy moustache and very,
    very "gruff".
    
    Peter

    re inviting the Aussies
    
    Well there is some serious debate about re-starting the Home
    Internationals so why not extend it to include Aus and NZ. Maybe a few
    of the better, other "Commonwealth" nations as well. Anyone fancy
    faxing the FA.
    
    Paul.
    

    Chaps,
    
    And of course England would run up a cricket score
    
    peter

    Just what we need, another second-rate competition for the poor anglo
    trash.
    
    Oh well, I know Denise Boyd is proud of her Commonwealth Games medals.
    
    Seriously, I was at hat home games against New Zealand and Canada, and
    they were both rubbish (Canada played well over there, however, and we
    were pitiful). Leave them out of it.
    
    Maybe we should do waht the Wallabies/All Blacks/'Boks do and play
    England, Scotland, Wales and Northern  Ireland (as Eire are in THE Cup)
                                         

    >    And of course England would run up a cricket score
    
    
      What .. England 2 all out... Australia 678 for two???
    
    Rick.

    A team that would give even a strong England a run for the money:
    
    			Bosnich (haircut)
    			
    			Ivanovich
    
    		Tobin			Durakovic (Rick Danko clone)
    
    Okon						Blagoeivic (sp?)
    
    	Slater			Zelic 		Corica
    
    	
     		Trimboli 		Milicic
    
    Subs: Healy, S. Waugh, Keating, Craven, Governor Phillip
    
    Care to back the dart?
    
    Peter	

    
    Who does that guy Slater play for....impressed a lot in the first game
    against Argentina....
    
    Dezzz.

    >	What .. England 2 all out... Australia 678 for two???
    						   ^^^^^^^^^
    				No, Cantona plays IN England, not FOR England
    
    Peter

    RE: -2
    
    Dezzz, 
    
    If it's his club you're looking for, it's RC Lens of French League.
    
    Eric
    

    RE 89.144
    
    Been importing a few eastern European footballers Crim?
    
    UB

    France beat Italy 1-0 (in Italy) the other night in a friendly.
    Cantona was captain. It was the first time in 82 years that France
    have won in Italy. I don't know much about the game other than the
    goal came at the end of the first half and it didn't look to be an
    Italian 'B' team. Papin didn't play for France.
    
    Makes you wonder how France lost to Israel and Bulgaria at home
    doesn't it ?
    
    Dave WOOD

    I watched the game on Italian television and France took their only
    chance from a Baresi mistake whilst Italy wasted good possession and
    the occasion chance. I think we also have a good opportunity for a
    penalty turned down.  
    
    In respect of the team that played it was without players such as
    Signori, Mancini and Donadoni. The midfield, not including Albertini, 
    was light weight, and with Casiraghi up front who now does not even
    play for his club side then Italy were not what I would call full
    strength. Mind you our best results never come in friendlies. Baggio
    was heavily marked up front. I think Italy will play him in a more
    withdrawn role in the world cup.
    
    Saachi was heavily critised though, with the crowd spending most of the
    second half telling him to go forth and multiply.
    
    Antony

    
    I also watched the game at the French TV.
    
    To be fair, the Italiens dominated most of the match, but as Antony 
    mentioned, their midfield was a bit light.
    France was not full strength either, as Papin, Blanc and overall Boli
    and Sauz�e were missing. 
    
    I hope for the Italiens that History will repeat:
    
    March 1982  France beat Argentina - June 82 Argentina World Champion
    March 1986  France beat Italy     - June 86 Italy World Champion
    March 1990  France beat Germany   - June 90 Germany World Champion
    
    Amazing, is'nt it ?
    
    PYV

Heard Venables' squad on the radio at dinner time. can't remember all of it but
I remember feeling pretty chuffed so it can't be all that bad. It includes (from
memory) Seaman, Flowers, Jones, Parker, Pearce, le Saux, Walker, Adams, Ince,
Platt, Gascoigne, le Tissier, Beardsley, Ferdinand, Shearer, and some others.

Anyone got the full squad?

mike

The full squad:

 Seaman    Arsenal   	Anderton  Tottenham
 Flowers   Blackburn 	Gascoigne Lazio    
 Parker    Man Utd   	Ince      Man Utd  
 Jones     Liverpool 	Batty     Leeds Utd
 Pearce    Nott'm F  	Platt     Juventus 
 Le Saux   Blackburn 	Le Tiss'r So'ton   
 Adams     Arsenal   	Shearer   Blackburn
 Pallister Man Utd   	Ferdinand QPR      
 Walker    Sheff Wed 	Beardsley Newcastle


Venables says he named a small squad so that he could get to know his players,
and so that it stands out as an elite.

mike

    And Batty for Leeds... Errmmm.... I think not.. ;->>>
    
    Rick

I cut and pasted it from the Internet, so don't blame me. My deepest apologies
to all those who were quite justifiably offended by my carelessness. I won't do
it again.

Now here is the corrected list:

 Seaman    Wimbledon   	Anderton  Tottenham
 Flowers   Blackburn 	Gascoigne Scunthorpe   
 Parker    Man Utd   	Ince      Man Utd  
 Jones     Leicester 	Batty     Sao Paolo
 Pearce    Nott'm F  	Platt     Juventus 
 Le Saux   Grasshopper 	Le Tiss'r Panathenaikos  
 Adams     Rotherham   	Shearer   Crewe
 Pallister Man Utd   	Ferdinand QPR      
 Walker    Doncaster	Beardsley Newcastle

Mike  Aston Villa

England have sorted out some more friendlies for the next couple of months:
Germany in Berlin next month, Greece at Wembley some time around the 16th May
and Norway at Wembley a week or so later. I'm hoping to make at least one of
them, but unfortunately I doubt it'll be the Germany one. Still, never mind.

I think the two May fixtures mean that the rumoured match against Wales is off.

Has anybody got any idea what sort of football Greece play? What I'm looking for
ideally would be a neat passing side with exciting but ineffective attackers and
an atrocious defence. I'd be gutted if I dished out all that money and we got
beat. 8-)

Cheers,

Mike

    Yesterday : Germany - Italy		2-1
    		Scotland - Netherlands  0-1 (beauty from Roy)
    
    John

    
    Also : 	Rep. of Ireland - Russia    0-0
    
    	 	Northern Ireland - Romania  2-0
                  Steve Morrow
    		  Phil Gray
    
    Se�n

    
    Re: Germany v Italy
    
    I saw some of the this game last night, Germany look very strong. They
    are going to take some beating in America.
    
    Dave...

    
    Another draw for the Republic. However, I'm surprised the teams didn't
    agree a penalty shoot out to decide the outcome of the game. Surely
    this would be just as benifical to Irelands chances in the Finals...
    
    Neil..

    
    Well Klinsmann was never my cup of tea ..diving,moaning etc
    but he certainly can put them away.....Kohler was the outstanding
    player on the pitch.....
    
    Germany will be very difficult to oppose in the World Cup....
    
    Dezzz.

    
    France      -      Chile 
    
      3                  1
    
    Papin              Zamorano
    Djorkaeff
    Martins
    

		Ireland 0 Russia 0

An experimental Irish side drew 0-0 with Russia at Lansdowne Road.  Ireland
were aided by driving wind and rain in the first half and dominated from
the start.  Jason McAteer of Bolton almost made a dream debut when his chip just
sailed over after 5 minutes.  Liam O'Brien hit the post with a 25 yard free
kick minutes later and Phil Babb saw his corner comeback off the crossbar.
Kharin in the Russian goal had an excellent game.  Russia did have the ball
in the net just before the break when Packy Bonner fluffed another backpass.
His clearance deflected off the hand of Salenko and into the path of
Borodiouk who drove home.  The referee disallowed the goal for handball
which was unfair as it was hardly deliberate.  A Russian goal would have been
totally unjust given Ireland's dominance.
 
Ireland faded in the 3rd quarter but Russia failed to capitalize and rarely
threatened.  Alan Kelly replaced Packy Bonner for the second half but neither
keeper had much to do.  Tommy Coyne replaced David Kelly but neither made
any headway up front.  The game ended in a predictable scoreless draw.

Gary Kelly had an excellent game at fullback.  He shows great promise and
the Drogheda lad is sure to make it to America.  Jason McAteer combined well
with Kelly on the right.  He has a future in the Irish squad and he should
earn a place in the squad.  Phil Babb looked composed in central defence.
He has plenty of pace but he wasn't unduly pressurized and will need a game
v Holland or Germany to prove himself.  Brian Carey did okay but he lacked
pace and will struggle against a more attack minded side.  Eddie McGoldrick
showed his versatility by filling in at left back.  Liam O'Brien had a great
first half but faded in the second.  Ronnie Whelan was overshadowed in 
midfield while Alan McLoughlin was lost on the lefthand side.  Cascarino,
Kelly and later Coyne tried hard up front but we have major problem in attack.
I think we need leftsided players as cover for Phelan and Staunton.  We also
need a striker to play alongside Aldridge.  Niall Quinn will be badly missed.



		Northern Ireland 2 Romania 0

Bryan Hamilton had a great start as manager of Northern Ireland.  His side 
comprehensively defeated one of Europe's top teams.  Stephen Morrow headed
in the opening goal just before the break following a corner by Michael
Hughes.  Philip Gray ran through the defence just after the break and scored
from 20 yards with a low drive.  Tommy Wright made 5 excellent saves.  
Gheorgi Hagi was sent off for spitting midway through the second half to
compound Romania's misery.

Talking abut left sided players Gary. 
Personally after yesterdays performance I would bring Irwin across to the Left (
where he plays for United and play Kelly at right full. Then Phealan could cover
for left and Irwin is available for right.

Having seen Liam O'Brien yesterday, once again I fail to understand why he isn't
playing in the Premiership. Babb should fit nicely into the centre of the
defence and the fact that he is a leader( Captain of Coventry ) is advantageous.
Bonner is a gonner shoud be the chant from now on. He was hopeless and
perserverence with his inadequate goalkeeping will cost us dear in future games.

Overall I was impressed by the team. I haven't seen an Irish team have so many
strikes on goal in a long time and that must bode well for the future.

Peter.

    Has anyone heard the teams for the Holland -v- Rep of Ireland game
    tonight?...I believe the Irish team is a bit of a `mix and match' team
    with several players playing out of position....
    
    Holland 0 - 5 Rep of Ireland,  8_)
    
    Ray....

    Ray,
    
    I'm not sure about the Dutch but Jack Charlton announced 
    his team last night... includes a 5 man midfield and one striker...
    
    	Pakie Bonner
    	Gary Kelly
    	Kevin Moran
    	Phil Babb
    	Terry Phelan
    	Ronnie Whelan
    	Eddie McGoldrick
    	Andy Towsnend
    	Steve Staunton
    	John Sheridan
    	Tommy Coyne.
    
    Should be interesting!
    Jim.

Irish team
----------
			Bonner

G. Kelly	Moran		Babb		Phelan

			Whelan
McGoldrick	Sheridan	Townsend	Staunton

			Coyne



Holland (probable)
------------------

   De Gooy, Valckx, de Boer, Koeman, Rijkaard, Davids, Overmars or Taument,
   Jonk, Bergkemp, R de Boer, Roy

    re . couple
    
    1) who's Babb I must admit i've never heard of him
    2) where are Houghton, irwin, TGA and Niall Quinn
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks (who's seen Ireland 3 times in the last two years)

    
    Houghton was mysteriously left out by Charlton, speculation says he
    did it to give new players a run out, but I can't see the point in that
    considering it's Holland we're playing.
    
    Irwin has been pulled out by Utd, he hurt his big toe, Ahhhh.
    
    Niall Quinn has been out from about the middle of the English Season
    and he will miss the World Cup as well.
    
    Babb's an up and coming player, and I reckon he's worth his wait in
    gold.
    
    Se�n

    
    Sorry, that should be Keane instead of Irwin.
    
    Irwin has hurt some other part of his body, or so Utd say.
    
    Se�n

    
    >1) who's Babb I must admit i've never heard of him
    
    Plays for Coventry at centre half. Has one full cap.
                                     
    >2) where are Houghton, irwin, TGA and Niall Quinn
    
    Houghton is a sub, Irwin is injured, TGA is injured and
    Quinn has a serious long-term ligament problem.
    
    regards,
    Jim.

    
    Are you sure Houghton is a sub? teletext last night said he was left
    out of the full team, I think that means subs as well.

    thanks all - looks to me as a part neutral that Eire are going to
    have trouble scoring goals in the finals.
    
    Regards,      
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

    
    
    Final score
    
    Holland....0  Eire....1
                  Coyne

    
    
      Austria  1  Scotland  2.
    
     Amazing, Scotland actually looked like a fairly decent team for a
    change with some pretty decent football being played, albeit against
    a pretty naff Austrian team.
    
     Austria scored after 13 minutes, a corner not properly cleared and
    a great shot from @20 yards into the roof of the net. Scotland
    equalised after 35 minutes, McAllister skipping past a defender and
    laying the ball into John McGinlay's path for him to score on his
    debut from close in. The winner came after an hour or so, Jess doing
    well on the wing, McAllister touching the ball back to Bill McKinlay
    who scored a cracker from 20 yards.
    
     I suppose we should celebrate, it's not often Scotland win away from
    home, certainly not with a couple of class goals.
    
     Danny.

    froAlthough I only saw the highlights, last night would appear to be I
    relands best performance for quite a while. Townsend looked really up
    for this game and Kelly had a stormer. Can someone post some of the
    heradlines from some of the Dutch and Irish papers?...
    
    Sleepless in Scotland....

    
    Eurosport showed the full 90 minutes last night, albeit a couple of
    hours late. Fortunately, I had succeeded in avoiding hearing the score
    beforehand, so I was able to enjoy the gane to the full.
    
    As an unbiased observer (;-}), I thought that Ireland completely
    outplayed the Dutch. Everyone on the team, with the exception of Ronnie
    Whelan, played their hearts out. Gary Kelly, Andy Townsend and Terry
    Phelan were particularly impressive. Kelly made one burst down the
    right which left his marker puffing and panting near the halfway line !
    Ronnie Whelan may as well have been at home. He was like a CIE bus -
    arriving late every time. This doesn't mean he was making late tackles
    - I don't think he made two tackles in the whole game !!! He was left
    on till the end, presumably because Jack reckoned that he must have
    plenty of running left, since he hadn't done anything !  Coyne had a
    good game given that he was more or less alone up front. He had 
    support breaking from midfield in the form of Andy Townsend, John
    Sheridan and Steve Staunton.
    
    All in all, it was a very encouraging performance. I accept that the
    Dutch would have played differently had it been a competitive match as
    opposed to a friendly, but I don't care -> WE WON !!!
    
    Apparently, after the game, Jack was quoted as saying "Boy, Do I like
    Orange !!!"  Well come on, a note about the Irish national team
    wouldn't be complete without a dig at the English ;-)
    
    Also, according to the commentator, Niall Quinn is making a very good
    recovery from his Cruciate Ligament operation, and there is an outside
    chance that he may make it to the States.  Anyone hear anything about
    this ?
    
    Jerry.
    
    P.S.: I started this reply at about 8:30 but I got distracted by some
    work in the meantime, so if I'm repeating what other people have said
    sorry.
    
    P.P.S. Jon is devastated today, having heard that Wales lost to one of
    those little Scandinavian countries, Sweden I think ;-)
    
    

    
    	Well as an unbiased observer the hi-lites shown on Sportsnight
    	were very favourable for Ireland. This was a much-changed side,
    	and their build-up play was superb - neat one-touch passes in
    	threes and fours, passes inside the full-backs to overlapping
    	runners (Kelly and Phelan). The 0-1 scoreline flattered Holland.
    
    	Ireland deserved to win. Even with the 1st-choice Dutch side in the
    	first half, Ireland looked more likely winners. Holland threatened
    	little up front. The header off the bar in the second half was
    	good luck for the Irish.
    
    	Anyone who still thinks Big Jack has them humping the ball upfield
    	and getting everyone underneath it had better think again. Playing
    	like this Ireland can pose a challenge to anyone in USA '94.
    	
    	You paddies must be very optimistic! 
    
    	Andy.   

I'll tell you what . Quinn getting injured is the beat thing that has happened
to Ireland in the run up. I for one hope he stays well away from fitness and
that goes for Cascarino too !!!

We played "football" last night...and it was wonderful to see

My team for W.C '94


				Kelly

	Irwin		Babb		Mcgrath 	Phelan



	G.Kelly		Townsend	Keane		Staunton


				Sheridan


	Coyne( Probably ) /Coyle( needs a good run out )/Aldo( needs a rest )

    I have to agree with .181, although I doubt that Jack will
    play Gary Kelly in midfield. There is no way that Charlton could drop
    Sheridan at this stage. He's been Ireland's most consistent player over
    the last three or four matches. If Houghton returns to form we could
    pose an even bigger threat in 7 weeks time....unfortunately tho, I feel
    Jack will play Cascarino up front, so my prediction for Italy -v-
    ireland is
    
    				Bonner
    
    Irwin		Moran			Babb		Phelan
    
    Staunton		Sheridan		Townsend	Keane
    
    			Coyne			Cascarino
    
    and I believe that Jack can pick any 2 from the other 11 squad members
    as substitutes, (probably McLoughlin, Whelan or TGA)
    
    just my opinion....
    Ray....

    >play Gary Kelly in midfield. There is no way that Charlton could drop
    >Sheridan at this stage. He's been Ireland's most consistent player over
    >the last three or four matches. If Houghton returns to form we could
    
    I didn't know Sheridan had been this involved in Ireland's recent
    matches. He's only just (4-5 weeks) returned from injury, although
    again, I don't know if he was playing before that. I thought that the
    only reason he was playing last night was so that Big Jack could sort
    out who was in the squad. 
    
    It's good to see Eire playing *football* and Sheridan can certainly
    pass a ball. He's getting more consistent with age which may be a
    factor in Charlton fancying him now (he can put a tackle in at times as
    well). I think England must be kicking themselves, especially the F.A.
    who didn't even have the courtesy to respond to Jack's application for
    manager in the 70's. Even though it was a friendly and even though
    Holland were without 2 of their best players in the second half it is a
    great victory. 
    
    Regarding .181. I wouldn't put Sheridan up front. 
    
    Paul.
    

    great result, 
    
    it must be heartening for those who support
    the English Premiership to see it's players dominate their 
    Italian/Dutch League counterparts (i.e. Kelly v's Roy, 
    Jonk/Bergcamp/Rijaard v's Sheridan/Townswend/Whelan).. I don't
    think Gullit would have made much of a difference either...
    
    Re .179....
    
    I think that's a bit harsh on Whelan, the fact that he was
    there allowed Sheridan and Townswend to attack more, and that's
    where our best chances came from.... those players breaking
    from midfield positions...
    
    roll on wc94,
    Jim
     

    I thoroughly agree with Peter in .180. Actually, I've been advocating
    for some time that Ireland change their route one style, built around
    Quinn or Cascarino. *No one* in Europe is playing that sort of football
    any more, a clear sign that it has become relatively easy to defend
    against.
    
    In any case, Ireland have the players to do otherwise. They've also got
    a fair amount of cover too - I've always been impressed with
    McLoughlin, who didn't even get a game last night. Certainly, if
    Ireland pick players who can string two passes together (i.e. keep
    possession of the ball), they'll pulverize teams like Holland on 
    workrate.
    
    Hmm, prospects are looking up for WC94 - especially with Italy looking
    distinctly shaky!
    
    Dom

I realise that Jack won't play Kelly in Mid field but I'll explain why I would
like him to play this team.

Ireland are like Man. United. They don't have a striker ( any more ) who can
score goals left right and centre. What they do have though is a team where any
player with the exception of the keeper is a potential goal scorer and every
player is a potential defender. 

Kelly's pace down the right would be similar to that of Kanchelkis. 
The midfield duo of Townsend and Keane are similar to Ince and Keane. 
Sheridan is the creative midfielder playing in front of the other four a la
Cantona. 
We have two solid and I would say two of the best central defenders in the
English game in Mcgrath and Babb and two of the speediest and again best full
backs in Irwin and Phelan , all four of these are capable of scoring.

Staunton is not another Giggs in midfield but his defensive skill in covering
for Irwin when he makes a run up the wing are indespensible as is his free
taking.

Up front we need a player who can hold up the ball for the mid-field or can run
onto a through ball from the mid-field. From last nights performance it looks
like Coyne could be our man.
The change of Keeper goes without saying.

The advantage of this system is that the is competent cover in the squad for
each an ever player. Not only that but with each player being a threath on goal
the opposition will never be able to relax !

I only hope that Jack has the guts to drop some of those players who have served
him well but are now a little short of pace. Things are looking up and hopefully
the German game will be proof that there is football to forward to from Ireland
in the U.S

Regards,

Peter.

    Peter,
    Again, I agree with much of what you say (though I wouldn't be *quite* so
    complimentary about the Irish defence, at least as individuals), but...
    
    
    
    >Staunton is not another Giggs in midfield...
    
    Can we quote you on that one? ;-)
    
    Dom 

  I honestly believe Jack should leave Whelan at home... Like what has he done
all season???? except eat... His work rate is practically zero, and the heat and
humidty in the states will kill him.. 

   Back to the game.. a win against any Dutch team is allways good.. But Guillit
is playing the best football of his life at the moment for Sampdoria.. They won
the Italian cup last night by a 6-1 margin I saw the game live, and Gullit was 
unreal....  

   For the states we need someone to score goals, and at the moment I can't see
any strikers out there... can anyone else????

                                                                   -dave-

			Holland 0 Ireland 1

					Coyne 55

A depleted Irish side faced an almost full strength Dutch team in Tilburg
and pulled off an incredible win.  Injuries (some real and some imaginary)
caused wholesale withdrawals but the reserves rose to the occasion.  Jack
Charlton stated before the game that he'd rather not have played it without
a full strength squad although he has probably had second thoughts now.

Ireland dominated the first half.  Tommy Coyne should have scored after
10 minutes when an Andy Townsend header gave him a clear shot from seven 
yards.  DeGoey made a great save.  Holland seemed very lethargic and failed
to make an impression.  Bergkamp, Roy, Koeman, Rijkaard et al were a huge 
disappointment.  Holland failed to threaten the Irish goal as Ireland forced
five corners to Holland's one in the opening period.

Holland replaced Koeman,Bergkamp and Jonk at the break and they did look more
inventive in the second half.  It was Ireland who got the only goal.  Gary 
Kelly won the ball in midfield.  Ronnie Whelan played a superb ball to send 
John Sheridan down the right and his cross was finished by Tommy Coyne.
Holland enjoyed a territorial advantage after this but never looked like 
scoring.  Packie Bonner did not have a save to make.  There was little of
note until the last two minutes when Townsend shot just wide after a corner
then Frank DeBoer headed against the bar in the last minute.  An equaliser 
would have been a travesty of justice as Holland had been outplayed.

Ireland played a 4-5-1 formation similar to that employed against Spain in
Dublin.  It worked much better on this occasion.  This was supposed to be
a test for Packie Bonner but he had little to do.  Gary Kelly had a superb
game at fullback as had Terry Phelan on the other flank.  Kevin Moran and Phil 
Babb did everything that was expected of them although the midfield gave
them superb protection.  Eddie McGoldrick performed adequately on the right
side of midfield.  He is certain to go to America albeit as cover.  Steve
Staunton is still not fully fit but he still played very well on the left.
Ronnie Whelan played in the anchor position in front of the back four and
did exceptionally well.  He's the only player we have that can play that
role and he may have booked his passage to America.  Andy Townsend had a 
great game and led by example.  John Sheridan was simply the best player on
the field.  His passing, running and tackling were a joy to behold.  Tommy
Coyne also had a great game up front.  He kept the Dutch defence occupied
and still managed to score the only goal.  He appears to be the best equipped
striker we have to play the lone frontman role.  None of the substitutes
had enough time to make an impact.

This game has certainly given Jack Charlton some headaches.  He has players
pushing for places in all positions and he commented afterwards that some
players may regret not travelling.  

Team
Bonner, Kelly, Phelan (McLoughlin 75), Moran, Babb, McGoldrick (McAteer 83), 
Whelan, Townsend, Sheridan, Staunton, Coyne (Coyle 83). 

    re .189
    
    good stuff Gary, do you reckon Charlton might try this 4-5-1 against
    Italy?...I think he'll have to play Cascarino just to annoy Baresi et
    al.
    
    Ray

    Kevin Richardson and Steve Bould make their debut for England tonight.
    They are the oldest debutants, (31), to play for England in over 40
    years....as Tranmere's manager said, (about TGA I think), "ages are for
    tombstones"....
    
    Ray....

    re .191
    
    I don't think blooding players at 31 is the best way forward in team
    planning, especially as these players are really seen as reserves at
    best. Matches like these should be used to introduce youngsters who
    have an international future; a manager doesn't have many opportunities
    like this.

    
    Yeah, it's advertised for SKY.
    
    Se�n

    Its also on BBC1 at 10.50pm
    
    Rick.

    
    Coverage starts on Sky Sports at 7.00pm, that's in 46 minutes if any of
    you guys have lost all track of time.             
    
    :-)

    
    England 5  Greece 0
    Anderton
    Platt 2
    Beardsley
    Shearer
    
    Another convincing performance from England against a greece side who
    are going to get hammered in the states....Terry's starting to get
    things together,the movement from the England players especially
    Shearer (who is without doubt the best forward in Europe) was
    excellent. 
    
    Sunday should be a better test when they take on Norway....
    
    Neil.. 
              

    
    ....so another easy win for England. Final score was 5:0, 3:0 at half
    time. Greece looked quite lively at the start and England were pretty
    quite for 20 minutes or so. Then a low cross from Le Saux bounced infront
    of the Greece keeper who failed to hold on to the ball. Anderton snapped
    up the chance for his first England gaol (with Shearer looking as if he
    might push him out the way to get there first 8-).
    	England's second came from some good work by Rob Jones on the right
    wing. He'd pushed up and almost in the corner robbed a greek player of
    the ball, beat another inside and pushed it on to Platt. In one
    movement Platt turned and dragged the ball past the oncoming defender
    on the edge of the box and made for the byline. Beardsley makes a
    diagonal run into the box and Platt pulls the ball back right into
    Beardsley's path for him to slot the ball neatly past the keeper.
    	The third goal came shortly before half time. Shearer, playing a
    lone role up front, was always marked by two Greek players. Bearsley
    tried to split them with a through ball which deflects off one. Shearer
    manages to control it and take them on, pushing the ball into the
    penalty area where he is maliciously brought down 8-) (ok, I thought he
    was looking for the penalty and the defender gave the ref no choice).
    Platt put the penalty away.
    	There was at least one other great chance in the 1st half. Anderton
    pulled the ball across from the right, on the ground. It ran behind the
    path of Shearer &  his markers to Platt how hits it first time, low
    towards the left hand corner. The keeper manages to get a foot to it
    and the ball goes up in the air, with the keeper on the gound, outside
    his 5-yard box. Shearer gets his head on it and it looks like its going
    to drop under the bar, but at the last moment the keeper gets a hand to
    it and touches it onto the bar and it eventually gets cleared by a
    Greek defender.
    	I missed the 4th goal but saw it replayed after the game. Shearer
    (I think) chips in a cross from the right, Anderton lets it bounce and
    tries to half volley it but the keeper is out quickly and blocks the
    shot with his body. The ball richochets back to Shearer who chips it
    back to the far post where Platt gets up very well to beat two
    defenders and head the ball home with the keeper stranded.
    	The last goal was a solo effort from Shearer. He takes on this two
    markers wide on the right and from a tight angle blasts a low shot
    which goes right past the keeper.
    
    	My impressions....
    
    	Greece were not strong opposition, inspite of the fact that they
    topped their qualifying group. Norway on Sunday will be a better chance
    to compare progress. However, Bould looked settled and Richardson
    charged about left right and center kicking at things. Shearer, Platt,
    Beardsley and Anderton had good games and I reckon Pearce (who came on
    for the last 10mins for ROb Jones at right back!) is going to have some
    trouble getting his place back from Graham Le Saux. Flowers had nothing
    to do, but did it very well (happy now Andy 8-) and Adams was never in
    trouble. Ian Wright came on for 20 minutes or so and manages to miss a
    sitter (as usual....). Matt Le Tissier also came on but not long enough
    to tell. I wonder if Cole & LeTissier will be starters on Sunday?
    
    Not a bad game but could have been better.
    
    JBG 

    
    Re:last.
    	   I don't think Cole is in the squad.
    	   How much will Southampton want for Le Tissier?

    You offer them about 3 million & southampton will take it.. :->
    
    Rick

    
    Not a bad performance from England, although Greece looked very weak. I
    can't see them making much impression in the States. In the two games
    under Sir Terry, atleast we have looked something like an International
    team again.
    
    Shearer was outstanding as was Platt. It was difficult to access Bould
    and Richardson as were we never really under any kind of pressure,
    although neither did anything wrong.
    
    We should get a much tougher game on Sunday against Norway.
    
    Dave...

    looks like El Tel is putting a decent side together. It also puts the
    last managers shortcomings in perspective. IMO the players really want
    to do the business for Venables....a good start for the new Emgland
    side....
    
    Ray....

Watched the game last night and was almost impressed. 

Maybe it was the slippery surface but the team looked dodgy at the back IMHO.
The goals came from defensive errors and talk about route one football being
suddenly acceptable to the English media. Brooking almost creamed himself when
Flowers played that inch perfect ball.

All in all England did OK but Norway will be a much sterner test and a lot more
interesting.
Venables unlike his predecesors gave a competent interview after the game and I
can see him doing great things for England. After all you have to remember that
this was only his second game in charge.

For what it's worth, John Motson is a dick head !!!!!


Peter.

>Maybe it was the slippery surface but the team looked dodgy at the back IMHO.
>The goals came from defensive errors and talk about route one football being
>suddenly acceptable to the English media. Brooking almost creamed himself when
>Flowers played that inch perfect ball.
    
    Hmm, sounds like England were damned lucky to shade it over the 90
    minutes ;-) 
    
    Can we expect widespread changes for the next game, then?
    
    Dom
    
    P.S. Peter, you sound suspiciously like that guy who used to note in
    here under the name "The Impartial Celt". Naah, it couldn't be...

O.K.

The first goal came froma Schmichaelesque mistake by the Greek keeper.

The second goal cam e from a woeful defensive error. That ball should hae been
cleared over the stand. In fairness Platt did make a great turn and played a
perfect ball.

The third ( Penalty ) was never a penalty. The guy clearly went for the ball and
only missed it because it bobbled over his foot. 

The fourth well nuf' said.

Shearers goal wasn't bad but where were the defenders ?


I never meant to suggest that England were lucky but in the first twenty minutes
the Greeks were running them ragged and balls were being played through the
defense for sport. A couple of decent strikers and Greece could have been 2 up
at half time. England scored against the run of play and then ran away with the
game. Kind of reminds me of last Saturday.

As I said Norway will be a real test. At least they have a defence.




Peter(An Impartial Celt) 

HA HA .Fooled you Dom , it really is me :-) 

    re: .205
    Right you are then...I guess it's back to the drawing board. Another
    performance like then and they'll be asking for El Tel's head.
    
    Actually, they didn't show the game over here (even Italian TV is
    starting to feel the pinch), but I guess a 5-0 win against a team that
    *should* be at the peak of their WC preparation is not to be scoffed
    at. There don't seem to be *too* many victories of this magnitude at
    international level.
    
    How did Merson play? I'd have thought Merson and Anderton would have
    been stepping on each other's toes a little.
    
    >HA HA .Fooled you Dom , it really is me :-) 
    
    Well, bless us and save us...so it really *was* you all the time!
    Actually, it's not so much the Impartial Celt as the Peter Hayden that
    throws us. Tell the truth, I bet your real name's Hamish McGillicuddy
    or Fergus  O'Halloran ;-)
    
    Dominic (now that's what I call an Irish name!)
                             

    
    Dom,
    
    	regarding Merson, you probably didn't notice that he was the only
    player who didn't get a mention in my match report. This was because I
    forgot that he had been playing....ie. he made a lasting impression 8-)
    
    JBG

    No! No!...... you guys got that wrong!
    
    England won 4-0 with Greece having the D-FENCE!
    
    Norway will have the A-FENCE! Let's see England get through that.....
    
    
    
    (pssssss! don't tell anybody, but they have a brick wall beyond 
    the A-FENCE)
    
    (%>)))..... Nick

    
    Yep, he may be able to predict a thing a two,, but that Nick Pilado
    blokes a nutter.
    
    Oii! nutter!!
    
    Tony
    
    

    
    Nick, take some advice, get yourself some professional help, no matter
    what it costs. And get it quickly. 8-)
    
    JBG

    A more sinister example of what comes of reading Cunno's lists of
    Ronnie Whelan statistics you could not wish to see.
    
    Surely there is a lesson to be learned here.
    
    Dom
    

    Jerry,
    
    I'll seek professional help ONLY if the couch is PINK!!!!! (he!, he!)
    
    
    
    U tocha ma charaterrr! I tocha U face!
    
    
    (:^}))))....... 
    Nick

    
    Shearer the best forward in Europe ???
    
    Let's just see how Romario plays tonight ????
    
    Apart from that...impressed with England but a little disappointed
    with Greece. Having seen quite a few of the Greek's qualifying games
    this one certainly did come as a surprise. England are certainly
    rolling and will be very surprised if the same score is not achieved on
    Sunday against Norway. Don't forget that WC warmup games are supposed
    to be precisely that...getting to know your colleagues with a few
    matches in quick succession before the big event.
    
    	Look at the warm-up games before the last World Cup and Germany's
    record...pretty dismal. On that if you want to see one of the most
    unusual warm-up games before a WC then ARD (Germany) are showing live
    Germany v a selection from the Northern amatuer division ?!?!?.(Monday
    23 May). Maybe its time for Vogts to sharpen up on some half chances
    that are 'bound' to come their way.
    
    Dezzz.

    
    For me, Romario is the best centre forward in the world at the moment. 
    
    He is therefore playing in my Daily Express "World Cup Dreamteam"!!
    
    Tony
    
    

    
    Well Romario looked very ordinary last night, mind you, the whole of the 
    Barcelona side didn't look much better ...Possibly the worst team
    performance I've seen from a team in the European Cup....
    
    Neil....
    
    

    I was told that Holland might be playing Scotland in a friendly
    next week.   Is this true ??   If so, where is it ??
    
    Thanks,
    Ray-in-Amsterdam

    Got to agree...Romario only had a couple of movements of merit last
    night, though on Milan's defensive performance I can't think of anyone
    except for maybe a fit Van Basten who could have punctured Rossi's
    stance.
    
    Dezzz.

                      <<< Note 89.217 by TRUCKS::WARDR >>>
                            -< Holland v. Scotland >-

>>    I was told that Holland might be playing Scotland in a friendly
>>    next week.   Is this true ??   If so, where is it ??
>>    
>>    Thanks,
>>    Ray-in-Amsterdam

Ray,

that's correct, I dunno the exact date but I believe it's somewhere around
the end of this month. The venue is Nieuw Galgenwaard in Utrecht.

T_

    Thanks!

    
     England 0  Norway 0
    
    A disappointing draw for England yesterday....Not a very exciting game..
    At least we remain unbeaten in the 3 internationals under Sir Terry and
    I'm sure he's learn't a lot on his way to making England great again... 
    
    Norway vs Ireland in the World Cup should be an exciting affair...NOT...
    I don't envy the supporters watching these two negative sides one little
    bit... 
    
    Neil... 

    I listened to the match on R5 as I'm not stupid enough to go out and
    buy a satillite dish. The ref took a battering from the commentators.
    He started the game 2 minutes early, played no injury time, stopped
    play when an advantage would have been better, didn't stop play when
    our players were hacked down. It was pitiful. He was mostly correct
    about the goal not standing, but what was his linesman on ? I think his
    arm was a bit sore so he waved it around whenever we were near the goal
    line. 
    
    Rich. 

    Let me guess Rich,
    
    You could hear the linesman's flag flapping in the wind on Radio 5,
    right ? From what I recall of the game, there were very few offside
    decisions given against either team. I recall one borderline decision
    which went against Anderton (I think), but didn't hear too much
    complaint from the SKY commentary team. 
    
    In fact the only complaint I heard against the ref was in relation to
    Shearer's free-kick. Whether he was right or wrong, he had blown his
    whistle and raised his arm BEFORE the ball ended up in the net. 
    Perhaps if you were stupid enough to go out and buy a satelite dish,
    then you might be able to form your own opinions about the game,
    instead of listening to the R5 commentators and taking it as gospel !
    
>    It was pitiful. He was mostly correct about the goal not standing, but 
>    what was his linesman on ? 
    
    Yes, it sounds a bit pitiful alright. But, I'ld be more inclined to ask
    what the commentators, or you, were on ;-)
    
    
    Jerry.

    Please don't blame the Ref, this game was dull because two disciplined
    teams were more concerned about not loosing than they were about
    creating chances.
    
    Personally I think that being unbeaten in games that don't count to any
    competition just leaves us still thinking we are a better team than we
    actually are.
     
    Having a strategy that the team can understand and play to is great,
    but its not so great when it just isn't worrying the opposition. 
    There will come a day in some future competition that we may need to 
    WIN a game against a team like that and we will not be prepared for 
    it because we did not practice taking the initiative in games such 
    as this.
    
    There is a lot to be excited about in this new England era, but the last
    thing I expected from this regime and these players is to bottle up a
    nil-nil draw in a meaningless game. 
    
    Please Mr Venables, take another look at playing a striker alongside 
    Shearer and when you do, do it for more than 15 minutes. 
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy  

Dead right, Andy, and it was a shame the way the media (BBC, paper) have made 
out it was all Norway's "fault".

Somehow, England's exciting new strategy involves a 5-man midfield ready to 
support Shearer at any opportunity in an overwhelming attack. But Norway play 
with a lone striker and are concerned only with getting 10 men behind the 
ball. Sorry, the difference is too subtle for me.

I think England's strategy could work if a) Shearer was a bit more patient - a 
couple of times he held the ball up well, and then shot wastefully as support 
was arriving; and b) the support was a bit quicker! It was noticeable that 
Norway's midfield were much quicker to attack than ours.

I think people are underestimating Norway - I hope they do well in the US 
(well, it'll make us look a bit better!)

grahame

    Grahame,
    
    I've said before that Shearer, good as he is, needs a partner to really
    show what he can do. O.K. so he can hold the ball up well but his first 
    time layoffs create real goal scoring opportunities if there is someone up 
    there with him. Invariably there were 3 opponents around him when the 
    ball arrived and the longer he waits the harder it becomes !
    
    The second problem with sticking to this christmas tree strategy is 
    that with Shearer out, which has been known ;-), there isn't another 
    centre forward in the country who can really do this job. Cole, 
    Sutton, Ferdinand and Wright all have their strengths but none come 
    close to big Al in terms of all round ability.
    
    Oh no, i'd hate to think I was supporting a one man team !
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy

    The one thing this match did show is that Le Saux is not a full back,
    or at least not an international full back.

    re: 227 
    
    Simon,
    
    If that really was 'the one thing' you gathered from that game then
    I beg to disagree. I find it staggering that in a nil-nil stalemate you 
    single out a full back, who was also doing the work of half the midfield
    in front of him, for criticism. 
    
    Correct me if I'm wrong but I have to assume that your knowledge of Le 
    Saux goes as far as watching his 3 England games and his performances 
    for Blackburn against MANU. In Le Sauxs first two England games he made 
    the first goal of the game, yesterday he didn't, but still provided 
    much of Englands attacking down the left. His performance was not 
    without mistakes but then I would struggle to single out a perfect 
    performance from anyone. Certainly there were 5 midfield players who
    collectively achieved bugger all. In his Blackburn performances against 
    United he totally shut out those wingers of which United fans are so 
    proud. I'm surprised that you have such a low opinion of him.
    
    In my opinion le Saux is the best in the Premiership and therefore
    rightly deserves to wear the England No.3.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy

    Andy,
    
    I agree almost totally with you. Le Saux was quite competent yesterday,
    and in my opinion is the best English No. 3 in the Premiership. Of
    course, if we're talking about simply THE best No. 3, then I would have
    to go with Denis Irwin who, unfortunately, isn't eligible to play for
    Sir Terry's gang ! 
    
    Jerry.
    
    P.S. As I mentioned to you before Andy, Mr. Le Saux only stifled our
    wingers cos our wingers were taking it easy to try to get your boys
    back into the title race ;-)

    Jerry,
    
    Good to see not all united fans are totally blinkered :-).
    
    My knowledge of Denis Irwin is limited to T.V. and what he's done against
    Blackburn. I admit he's not bad going forward and has a fair shot, but
    as a defender he's lucky that not many teams have a real go at United 
    because he couldn't even catch Stuart Ripley let alone tackle him.
    
    There seems to be an element in here who believe that a players
    ability can only be measured by the success of the club he plays for.
    Its a good job they don't have to pick the England team because
    we'd end up with bloody Dion Dublin and half the United youth team ;-)
     
    Cheers,
    
    Andy

    
    	Le Saux on recent form is the best left-back in the Premier. Irwin
    	is a very handy second though.
    
    	It was interesting to note that there were three Blackburn players
    	on the pitch on Sunday and if Flowers had been in goal there'd have
    	been four. Is this a first for that previously-unfashionable club
    	up t-Darwen rouuuuuuurd?
             
    	Andy.

    re :-1
    
    3 Blackburn players ?   Le Saux, Shearer and ??????
    
    I went to the game on Sunday and thought that England were very
    disappointing.  Defensively we looked very naive, especially Rob Jones
    who made 4 or 5 serious errors.  I think that Le Saux is an excellent
    attacking full-back and has great potential, but still looks a bit
    dodgy when he has to defend !
    
    The midfield was a mess - too many players in similar positions/roles.
    The only width was provided by Shaggy and he had a terrible game.  His
    crossing was appalling.  Shearer did all he could.  He had absolutely
    no support all game - I think maybe linking him with Ferdinand would be
    worth a go.  When Wright came on, they spent the whole time getting in
    each other's way.
    
    Finally, I was a bit surprised at Venables' delay in changing the team
    in the second-half.  It was only a friendly, the team wasbogged down in
    a pattern that obviously wasn't working, and he waited until the 75th
    minute to change it.  Le Tissier made quite a difference when he came
    on because he was able to a) get past players and b) find Shearer with
    some decent passes.
    
    Dave

    
    In T.V.'s first England game Shearer, Batty and Le Saux were 
    playing at the end, Flowers was on the bench. 
    
    Blackburn were formed in 1875, since then they have been fashionable a
    number of times, but most recently in the 50's when Ronnie Clayton and 
    Brian Douglas were stars of the England team. Dominance (?) of the
    England team may have happened before but I would have to ask my dad !
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy  

    
    	you beat me to it, you swine!!
    
    	Berg played for Norway. Just in case you weren't paying attention
    	the first time..
    	
    	Andy.

So, if we all accept that Shearer can't be the lone striker, TV either has to 
partner him with someone (not Wright), or play someone else to fit the 
pattern. Has Alan Smith's time come at last?!

g

    Andy,
    
    My observation on Le Saux wasn't the *only* one from that match; I thought
    that England were back to their usual ineffectual selves; even Ince was
    poor.
    
    I still think that Le Saux is not a full back of international class.
    He can't defend -- look at his pathetic header that nearly gave a goal
    away. He is good going forward and should have played where Wise was.

    Simon,
    
    First I was only responding to what you wrote:
    
================================================================================
Note 89.227                      Friendly Topic                       227 of 237
WARNUT::PICKERINGS "Simon Pickering"                  2 lines  23-MAY-1994 16:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
    The one thing this match did show is that Le Saux is not a full back,
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    or at least not an international full back.
    
    this does seem to imply something pretty singular about what you observed
    from the game. Maybe I just misinterpreted what you wrote. 
    
    Second even your fellow MANU supporters have taken the rose-tinted
    glasses off now the season is over. 
    
    You may or may not think he is international class, thats your opinion, 
    but your buddies seem to agree that he's the best in the Premiership 
    and certainly the best Englishman in that position. I see you haven't 
    suggested anyone better.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Andy 
    
    
    

    
    	I represent that remark, Andy. Simon is not nor never has been
    	my buddy ! ;-)
    
    	We are merely disciples of the Auld Trafford who have seen the
    	light on the way to Altrincham 8-) Any resemblance between this
    	and friendship is purely coincidence.
    
    	Yours in an all-conquering back-to-back premier-championship sort
    	of way, mate...
    
    	Andy.

    Sorry Andy,
    
    I have to retract my earlier agreement about Le Saux being the best
    English left back - I forgot about Lee Sharpe ;-))))))))
    
    Jerry.

    re :-1
    
    >>I have to retract my earlier agreement about Le Saux being the best
    >>English left back - I forgot about Lee Sharpe ;-))))))))
      
    Lee Sharpe will probably find himself at left-back for Utd
    if he wants a regular place.  He actually started his career as a
    left-back and I think he could do a better job than Le Saux.   
    
    Dave 

    Rumours at the weekend suggested that Lee was requesting a transfer, as
    he was not happy to play left back. This was probably influenced to
    some extent by the fact that he would have to compete with Denis Irwin
    for the position. Given that Denis played 41 of the 42 league games
    last year (as mentioned recently in 32.?), Lee probably didn't fancy his
    chances too much !
    
    It would be a pity to see Lee Sharpe go, not least because he could be
    very useful for the European Cup games.
    
    Jerry.

    Another rumour going around is that Paul Parker is unhappy at Utd. 
    Shift Irwin to right-back, Sharpey at left-back and problem solved. 
    Even if Parker stays, I don't really rate him as a right-back.  He's
    much better in the centre of defence despite his lack of height.  I saw
    him against Ferdinand this season and he marked him out of the game -
    there ain't that many forwards taller then him.

    Good to see the old rose tinteds are in safe hands Dave. 
    
    As a Blackburn fan I would be more than happy to see MANU turn out with
    the back four you are advocating, (Irwin, Pally, Parker, Sharpe) :-))).
    
    Even Lee Sharpe himself realises that he has no future as a full back. 
    
    And are we talking about the same Paul Parker who was jumping around in
    front of Alan Shearer (5' 10") when he headed the first goal in at 
    Ewood then ?
    
    England have no problems with full backs while Rob Jones and 
    Graeme Le Saux stay fit.
    
    Lets find a regular partner for Shearer (Mike Newell perhaps ) and 
    a bit of midfield imagination to supply them. (How about Wilcox, Batty, 
    Sherwood and Ripley) 
    
    Well you lot started it :-)))))))))))))))))
    
    Yours with Blue and White Lenses,  
    
    Andy 

The republic take on bolivia tonight in the run up to the world cup
the team is as follows


				Bonner
	
	Irwin	 	 Babb		Moran	Phelan


	Houghton	Townsend Sheridan Keane	Staunton

				Coyne


He employs a five man midfield as used in holland when ireland won 1-0. Charlton
probaly feels that with the heat in the US that a five man midfield would be
harder to break down, and also Ireland desperately miss their main target man in
Niall Quinn who will not be back until september.
Match report here tommorrow, after hopefully another victory.

GS in Dublin
				

    Dear GS in Dublin,
    
    Any idea what time the KO is tonight ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    JB in Bern.

Match on sunday in hanover against germany
then next is against czech republic in Dublin on 5th june before flying out to
the states the following day

GS in Dublin

    What happened to G Kelly??
    
    Rick

    
    He left DEC for Intel !
    
    

    
    He's one of the 22 squad members, but we realise you have difficulty 
    understanding these sort of things Rick. :-)
    
    Se�n

    But he should be in the team.. all the time! :->
    
    :->
    
    Rick.

left out because irwin has not played in the last few international matches.

Mc grath left out because he has a shoulder injury
Kernaghan left out because of calf injury i think

Jack said neither mc grath or kernaghan would be risked unless fully fit as they
are his first two choice centre halfs for the world cup.

kell is on the subs bench.

GS in Dublin

================================================================================
Note 89.245                      Friendly Topic                       245 of 252
EASE::SMYTH                                          22 lines  24-MAY-1994 16:17
                      -< Republic of Ireland vrs Bolivia >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                 _____
                                |     |
                       ------>
                      /		Bonner
                     /
	Irwin	    |	 Babb		Moran	Phelan
                    |
                    |
	Houghton    |	Townsend Sheridan Keane	Staunton
                    |
	            |		Coyne
                    |

	Expect to see the Bolivians exploiting a bit of a gap here !
    
    :-)

                                 _____
                                |     |
                       
                                Bonner
                     
        		Irwin Babb Moran Phelan
                   
                    
             Houghton Townsend Sheridan Keane Staunton
                \       \                   /      /    
                 \       \       Coyne     /      /
                  \       \        |      /      /
                   \       \       |     /      /
                    \_______\______|____/______/
                                   |
                                  \|/
    				|  v  |
                                 -----
                    
    
           And expect the Irish to exploit a bit of a gap here !
    
    	   :-)
    
    	Sorry Andy couldn't resist it.

    The original Jimmy Hill & Andy Gray.... what a combo.. and all in one
    conference! :->
    
    Rick.

    
    ......no report on the match yet, not even the score. I guess the Irish
    contingent are still in the pub celebrating then???
    
    JBG

    	Republic of Ireland	1-0	Bolivia
    	John Sheridan 85'
    					att.32,500
    
    Bonner got his 72nd cap and was `seldom tested'
    
    Coyne missed from 8yrds in the 28th minute
    
    Baldivieso hit the woodwork in the 81st minute
    
    Cascarino headed down for Phelan who squared for Sheridan to score from
    25yards 
    
    
    
    

    I listened to the match on RTE Radio. I'm still not convinced about
    this 5-man midfield that's in vogue with Charlton at the moment. The
    commentator made a good point tho. He said that it works perfectly
    against `good attacking teams', a la Holland, Germany, Italy, but it
    falls down against a team who come to defend and play for a draw. I'd
    stick with that formation against Italy in the World Cup but I'd rather
    see Big Tony play against Mexico and Norway. Put `em unda
    preshur....and all that....
    
    Ray....

    
    I think it was Radio Limerick I listened to it on, tried for a while
    with RTE radio Eiriann but the reception was crap. 
    
    According to the commentators Coyne missed a sitter, other than that he 
    played as best he could is the position he was placed, ie. our only 
    forward. First half sounded really boring, or a YAWN as the commentators 
    said, Bolivia playing for a draw from the whistle and Ireland were not 
    prepared to capitalise. 
    
    Jackie obviously had stern words at half time, Ireland came out with alot 
    more bite, Townsend in particular, he seemed to be all fired up, going for 
    everything, although he did this in the first half also. Bonner had a
    quiet game, although when the Bolivians finally did threaten, himself
    and Kelly where caught sleeping, luckily for us, the ball hit the post.
    
    Ireland scored in the 85th, and it was scored by the one man that
    probably deserved it in the second half, Sheridan, he seems to be
    making a real push for the team going by his last few appearances for
    Ireland. 
    
    I think we could be seeing a good few changes come June, Jason McAteer,
    Gary Kelly and Sheridan all in with great chances of becoming regulars.
    
    Nough said,
    
    Se�n

I hate to say this Ray but Ireland are trying to emulate Man. United and the
results were the same in the first half as when United play a defensive team.

There are in my opinion two ways to play a five man mid field. 
In the case of the opposition being an attacking team you play the ball through
the midfield looking for the wingers to make runs and for gaps in the defense
through which to play incisive balls. 
The other option ( against a defensive team) is to have a target man up front ,
to play the ball to him with the mid-field running on to whatever this generates.

Unfortunately until Cascarino came on in the second half we were trying to play
the wrong system against the wrong opposition. Things changed dramatically when
he did arrive on the scene. Keanes name was mentioned for almost the first time,
Townsend the same. Sheridan took more posession and we always looked like
scoring. Coyne did well and maybe if he had converted his two chances the game
would have turned a lot earlier but on the whole the mid-field were nowhere to
be seen.

In first half the ball was hoofed over five men in mid-field cutting them out of
the game because they'd have to hold back in case Coyne didn't win the ball.
When Cas came on, whenever they hit the ball over, the mid-field were there to
support because they were confident that the ball would be won. Through
tiredness and probably the  height of Cascarino against the Bolivian defence
mid-field emptied out a bit and Sheridan had more room in which to control the
ball. Things looked a lot better.

A good exercise over all although not the best to watch,


Peter.


P.S The fights among the commentary team were better than Eubanks and Close the
other night.

    re .261....commentators fighting....
    
    Isn't Jim Beglin a prat?...This guy could become the Irish version of
    Jimmy Hill...gawd help us....
    
    Ray....

	I thought Sheridan was outstanding last night. He was everywhere,
tackling, getting back, good distribution of the ball and all that...

	My question is well Jack leave him out of the team??? I can't see how
but you know Jack. And If John remains in the team, then what happens when Jack
what a 4-4-2 formation. What the midfield going to be. Perhaps:


	Keane (Who was useless last night) Sheridan Townsend Staunton


Mick

    
    Re:261
    You Are taking the P***....
    
    Ireland trying to emulate Man Utd....Come on.....Wimbledon more like..
    Dream on....
    
    Neil...

    Yeah Peter,
    
    Stop taking the P**s. You know full well that Mr. Ferguson adopted his
    current team strategy after a visit to Dublin to watch Jack's boys in
    action. Soon thereafter the trophies started flowing back into Old
    Trafford. Now Mr. Vegeatable is starting to jump on the bandwagon.
    Honestly, some people have such short memories !
    
    Jerry.

    
    Does anyone over in Germany have details of the German 
    line-up for Sunday's friendly against Ireland ?
    
    Is Ruedi Voller making a comeback ?
    
    Thanks,
    Jim.

    Can someone post details of the German TV schedule for the 
    Germany -v- Ireland game this Sunday?...Can anyone with a Sky satellite
    dish receive this channel?...otherwise I'll miss the game....
    
    
    Ray....

    Ray,
    
    There are plenty of unencrypted German channels on Astra. One of them
    is bound to show the game live. I'll check my TV Guide tonight and see 
    if I can find the necessary time/channel/tuning details for you.
    
    Having given up the idea of driving up to Hanover, I checked out the
    cost of flights. The good news was that suitable flights were
    available, the bad news was that it would work out cheaper for
    me to fly to Dublin to watch the match on TV and stay with friends !
    So I'll probably end up watching it on TV myself !
    
    Jerry.
    
    Jerry.

    .268
    
    great stuff Jerry, I can play my 5-a-side game tonite (oo-er) without 
    the mental torture of having to miss two irish games in a row....
    
    ttfn....

			Ireland 1 Bolivia 0


Ireland eventually broke down stubborn Bolivian resistance to win this world 
cup warm-up game.  The result was always going to be academic.  The performance
never reached the heights of Tilburg but there was a reasonable degree of
satisfaction at the final whistle.

The first half was very poor.  Tommy Coyne had a couple of chances that he 
failed to convert.  Bolivia looked comfortable in defence but ran out of ideas
when they crossed the halfway line.

Ireland improved considerably after the break.  Phelan and Staunton 
discovered their old understanding and Gary Kelly made a big difference on the
right when he replaced Irwin.  Coyne and Staunton both went close and a goal
looked inevitable.  After 85 minutes Phelan set up Sheridan who scored with a
20 yard drive.  Yet again John Sheridan had been the best player on the field
and this goal was a just reward. 


Jack played a 5 man midfield in this game which suggests that he is intent on
employing this tactic in America.  This requires somebody to sit in front of 
the defence in a holding role with the other 2 central midfield players 
getting forward to support the lone striker.  Whelan and McGrath have played
this role in the past.  Keane did not impress in this position.  Whelan
and McGrath don't appear to have the pace anymore for this role.  Staunton
is an automatic choice on the left flank with Houghton still expected to
hold his place on the right.  Tommy Coyne appears best equipped to handle the 
lone striker role.  Irwin and Phelan will be the two fullbacks.  McGrath is
the main injury worry at the moment and he's certain to play if fit.  Babb
impressed again and will hopefully partner him.  Bonner had a quiet game in
goal although the Bolivians did hit the post just before the Irish goal.

Team

Bonner, Irwin (Kelly 45), Phelan, Moran (Kernaghan 45), Babb, Houghton 
(McAteer 65),  Keane, Townsend, Sheridan, Staunton, Coyne (Cascarino 80).

    FRANCE  1   AUSTRALIA   0
    
    Played in Japan in front of Canto-maniacs.
    
    Goal by Cantona on a header at 16 yards. Papin missed a penalty.
    Not a very good performance aaccording to radio reports. The French had
    flown in 40 hours before after a 15 hour flight and a "spoiled" night.
    
    They play Japan next I believe. Or could it be Argentina?
    
    �JF?

    The Ger V Ire game is on ARD, if that's any use for you satellite
    people. The German team to be announced today at noon.
    
    - Robin

    Hi Ray,
    
    As Robin says the game will be shown live on ARD 1. The programme runs
    from 17:35 till 19:58 CET. Subtract an hour for the UK and Ireland.
    
    ARD is on Astra at 11.493 - Horizontal (Transponder 19). The audio is at
    7.02/7.20 (stereo). It shows a little "1" in a shadow style in the top
    left hand corner of the screen.
    
    Does anyone know if RTE Radio 1 will have live commentary again. I get
    ARD on terrestrial TV here, so it would be great to listen to an
    unbiased commentary on RTE while watching the german channel ;-))))
    
    Jerry.

    Hi Jerry,
    
    With the level of interest in the game, I'm sure it will
    be live on RTE 1. The commentator is not bad, he almost 
    goes into Brazilian mode whenever Ireland score (Gabriel
    Egan) and he'll probably be supported by Jim Beglin whose
    well able to talk aswell!
    
    Jim.
    
    

    Can ARD 1 be seen in France?
    
    		Shane
    

    
    The Astra footprint covers France but most dishes in France would be 
    pointing at the Telecom Satellites with a different frequency on the
    'LNB' (essentially the 'pick up' on the dish). However if you are in
    the Alsace region I'm sure you can pick it up terrestrially...
    probably in B&W since French TV sets are SECAM.
    
    Phew...the lengths you have to go to see a football game....
    
    Dezzz. 

    But its worth it.. :->>>>>
    
    Rick.

    Re: .274
    
    Thanks Jim.

    Having listened to the Bolivia game on Radio 1, I certainly agree that 
    Jim Beglin has the gift of the gab. In fact, I can exclusively reveal,
    that he kissed the Blarney Stone at least once. He was born and raised
    next door to my aunt's house in Waterford and his mother still lives
    there. In fact, when I was young we used to housesit for my aunt (she
    had a post office so someone had to stay there) for two weeks every
    summer. During those two weeks we spent most of our evenings playing
    football with Jim and his brother Tom down by the gates of the ESB !
    
    He was an OK player but I thought he looked pretty ordinary compared to
    me ;-)  In fairness, he was a very nice guy, but I lost all respect for
    him when he signed for Liverpool !
    
    Yours Trivially,
    
    Jerry "My aunt lived next door to someone famous" Bolger.

    
    Jerry,
    
           re:   -< He never used to talk so much BS ;-) >-
    
    	because in those days he had a lot of competition :-)
    
    cheers,
    
    Andy

    
    Germany 0-2 Rep. of Ireland
                Tony Cascarino
    		Gary Kelly
    
    What can I say, I doubt are odds of 33/1 will last for much longer, we
    probably could have scored another near the end, but if I say that, I
    might as well say Germany coul;d have had a few goals. I think they hit
    the crossbar twice, both times Alan Kelly palmed the ball onto it. It
    has to be said that Klinsmann missed a sitter, he had an open net, and
    smashed a valley onto the deck only for it to bounce over the bar. I
    could go on and give you a match report, but I think Gary Spain will
    probably sum it up better than anybody, so I'll leave that in his
    department, while I just sit here and gloat.
    
    Se�n

    
    Sean,
    	William Hills are offering 40/1 for Ireland.
    	Btw,how does the places thing go in the World Cup?
    	Is it just 1st/2nd,or is it 1st to 4th?

    Ian,
    
    40/1 ? I've just been talking to a friend back in Belfast, and the
    price over there is 50/1, I'll just have to wait until next Saturday,
    ie. payday, and hope Hills are still offering them at 40/1, I doubt it
    though.
    
    There's a third place play off on Saturday 16th of July if that's what
    you mean by, do the places go from 1st to 4th.
    
    Se�n

    
    Sean,
        What i meant by places is for betting purposes.
    	(e.g.the Grand National offers � the odds for finishing in the
    	top four places).
    	I was just wondering if it was the same for the World Cup.
    	

    this is getting interesting. It looks like the Republic have that old
    winning look about them again. If we keep it going against the Czechs
    next week then there will be no more confident team going into the
    finals. I had to listen to the match on the radio....observations....
    Sheridan and Babb in particular have (almost) guaranteed their places in 
    the starting line-up against Italy, Big Tony will partner Coyne up
    front....other observations, Gabriel Egan, (Irish radio commentator),
    is a prat,(eg..`little Gary Kelly on the ball',`little Gary Kelly goes
    on a run down the right wing',`little Gary Kelly....') and Jim Beglin
    is still a prat....apart from that, what a great result....
    
    Ray....

    I too thought Babb was outstanding, definitely our new Paul McGrath....
    
    The germans missed a few sitters and were obviously the better
    footballing side, but it's goals that count. Berti Vogts said
    afterwards that before the game there was one or two positions that he
    was unsure about now all places must be reconsidered. He was happier
    that they lost 0-2 rather than have played so badly and got a draw. As
    we all know the German team that'll play the WC will not make the same
    mistakes !!
    
    As Jack said at the interview afterwards "it's not a good result for
    Berti but it's a great result for me".
    
    I must admit when Gary Kelly took off his jersey to exchange at the end
    I thought he certainly wouldn't win Mr universe !! he looks like a strong 
    tackle would do him some serious damage. 
    
    - Robin

    
    Not a great game...though I think Bundes Berti's Boys have a few more
    problems than Wor Jackie's. Well taken goals on the opportunities that
    arose. Germany were shackled by the Irish midfield running around
    'like rabbits' and up against a defensive wall like 'little green
    cucumbers'.
    	Keane had an anonymous first half but ironically enough he did his
    job superbly...Moeller had to taken off for his ineffectiveness. Very
    impressed with Babb, Kelly and McAteer. I will say something about
    Whelan though...he calmed and slowed the pace down when he came on
    which I think will be more the pace required under a 90 deg. Florida
    Sun or even an 80% humidity in the Meadowlands. Its easy to say that
    Whelan may be past his best (he is) but it is possesion that Ireland
    will need to increase on if they are to advance past the first round;
    they had very little yesterday.
    
    	Mind you that's the first time in 6 years the Germans have been
    beaten at home, so all in all a great psychological victory yesterday.
    
    I'm not an expert on the German language but Gabriel Egan's
    commentary was cracking...Walter Mathhaus, Iggner, Reedil, Colour...
    ...again though Fassbender's on Ard was equally amusing......summed up
    by his usual arrogant quip...so let's see how we get on on 'JULY' 17th.
    
    Dezzz.
    
    

    
    Re .284
    
    Howard,
    
    	you're right about Gabriel Egan being a prat....I mean, its
    obvious Gary Kelly is little......he's Irish isn't he?? 8-)
    
    JBG

    
    Saw the game yesterday, and i think that the Irish had that little bit
    of luck, especially with the second goal.
    
    They were outplayed for much of the game, and as has been said before i
    don't see Germany missing that many chances again for a long time to
    come.
    
    To my mind the Irish midfield didn;t try to sit on the ball enough,
    especially in the lasy 20 minutes.  They seemed to want to get rid of
    it, and that was mainly by booting it upfield, and thus immediately
    giving the germans an opportunity to press forward.
    
    But, when all's said and done.  They won.  You can't ask for more than
    that !
    
    
    Nigel

    Remember that, traditionnally. winners of the World Cup tend to loose
    their warm-up games. That's because they have a slow, build-up approach
    to be in top form for the finals. The German are masters in fitness
    preparation. Why do you think they reach the finals nerly all the time?
    
    I would not change the odds now. Germany are still clear favourites to
    reach the last four.
    
    /JF

    KIRIN CUP - JAPAN
    
    France 4 - 1 JAPAN
    Djorkaeff    Some name I could not remember
    Papin
    O.G.
    Ginola
    
    France dominated throughout. Some good Japanese players but overall
    little opposition. France win the Kirin Cup and now have a 4-win run
    since the new manager was appointed.
    
    3 goals in a row for Djorkaeff. Papin scores again. Looking good for
    September and the first qualifying game of EURO-ISLAND '96.
    
    Cheers
    /JF

    Someone just told me that Ireland have been cut from 40-1 down to 25-1
    for the WC finals....still a good bet!!!!
    
    Ray....

    Irelands odds to win the World Cup before German Game.
    
    
    	Corals			Hills			Ladbrooks
    	
       	 50/1			40/1			  33/1	
    
    Teletext says the odds have dropped today to 25/1 but I don't know what
    bookmakers they're referring to.
    
    Jackie reckons Germany re still his bet for Champions.
    
    Se�n
    
    Ps...Ian, these odds are for outright winners, but I'm sure bookmakers
    do a deal for top four places.	

    
    
    Stockholm, Sunday:
    
    Sweden (0)	2	(Brolin 2 (1 pen))
    
    Norway	0
    
    
    The norwegian bluff was mercilessely exposed yesterday by a Swedish
    team that didn't play well and didn't have to. The destructive tactics
    of the norwegian coach Egil "Silly" Olsen were deservedly put to a
    fault by simple footballing superiority. In the first half, Norway
    almost managed with their intention of putting the Swedish players to
    sleep (not to mention the crowds). In the second they were simply
    out-classed.
    
    A word of consumer information: If you have planned to watch Norway in
    the World Cup, I suggest you consider alternate activities, unless you
    are the kind that enjoy gloating at talent-less individuals in
    Karaoke contests. Norway makes Wimbledon look like Brazil '70
    
    The whole world will be laughing at Norway in the World Cup. How could
    this pathetic bunch of unemployed whale killers ever qualify, even
    at the expense of the not-so-mighty England? This match showed that
    Norway belong where they always were, among the footballing minnows
    such as Albania, Luxemburg and Malta. 
    
    
    	yours in unbiasedness,
    
    		Stefan	
    

    
    Belgium  9 - 0  Zambia
    
    A entertaining match, with 5 goals from Josip Weber, 3 from Degryse
    and 1 from Nilis.
    
    /Phil.
      

    Anyone see the Republic v Czechoslovakia match. How did the 4-4-2
    formation hold up against the 4-5-1 system used in the other warm-up
    matches.
    
    Just interested.
    
    Paul.
    

    Paul,
    
    It was crap.  
    
    
    /GAry

  I was at the match in Lansdowne yesterday and it was a crap match. The worst
I have seen at that venue. Charlton reverted to the 4-4-2 yesterday and will 
now definately go for the 4-5-1 against Italy.

Kernaghan was useless again yesterday and must be the luckiest man to to be the
squad. Eddie McGoldrick was also useless while Bonner didn't inspire confidence
at all. However I wouldn't read too much into this result. Win or lose it didn't
matter. Gary Kelly played very well and certainly looks a great prospect.

The team yesterday was:

                          Bonner
Kelly                                              Phelan
              McGrath           Kernaghan
McGoldrick                                         Staunton    
              Townsend          Sheridan
                 
              Aldridge          Cascarino

It's a pity that David Kelly and Alan McLaughlin didn't get a run in the
friendlies. I think they were the only two not used.

C U N N O

>>>>>
 Title:  Kernaghan has to go!!
>>>>>


I was thinking that very same thing. McGrath looked very slow as well, and your
attack is less lethal than one of my bottom burps.

Mike

    Cunno,
    
    I know this may be asking a lot but could you give an objective
    comparison of Sheridan and Whelan. I know you're a big fan of Ronnie's
    (or is it just that it's guaranteed to get a response from some noters
    in here) but do you really think he's up to a World Cup and wouldn't
    Sheridan be the better bet in a 4-5-1 lineup.
    
    Yours expectantly,
    
    Paul.

           <<< Note 89.299 by UPROAR::LEMP "Live slow, die young" >>>
                            -< Sheridan vs Whelan >-
    Paul,
           I watched Sheridan yesterday and was by no means impressed with him
at all. He doesn't do enough work and when he makes a bad pass, he just stands
there motionless with his hands on his hips. I would like to see Whealn there
in front of the back four especially if Kernaghan is playing. Ronnie like myself
can put his foot on the ball, slow things down, make telling passes and put in 
good challenges. So I would go for Whelan. My team to face the Italians would be
as follows:

                          Alan Kelly
Dennis Irwin                                       Terry Phelan
               Paul McGrath          Phil Babb

                      Ronnie Whelan
Gary Kelly     Roy Keane       Andy Townsend      Steve Staunton

                      John Aldridge.

I wouldn't give Alan Kernaghan a look in and as for Jason McAteer, I don't think
he should be there at all as he has about as much Irish in him as Fidel Castro
has.

C U N N O                              

    Thanks Cunno,
    
    You're not alone when you say that Whelans defensive capabilities are
    better than Sheridans - after watching Sheridan for Wednesday I'm not
    surprised about what you said. However, I think the attacking options
    created by having Sheridan in the side will mean he'll get the nod at
    some point, even if it's only against the "lesser" teams who don't
    carry so much of a threat.
    
    Whichever way it turns out I'll be wishing the Irish all the best - Big
    Jack has rubbed the (English) FA's nose in the sh*t quite a bit already
    but he can really do the job properly now.
    
    Erm, not so sure about Aldo in the lone attacking role though.
    
    Paul.
    

If I were Jack , I would play Ronnie as the back four.

Hugs,

Stuart


BTW I will be in Dublin for the World Cup so if anybody out there wants
    to lead me to drink I will come along kicking and screaming.

    .302
    
    If you want a bit of an adventure try the Harp Bar right on O'Connell 
    Bridge during any of the Ireland matches. Just one tip, tho. Get about
    a dozen drinks in each time cos there's no chance of getting to the bar
    twice during the match, oh and as soon as the half-time whistle blows
    run for the toilets cos within seconds there will be a mile-long queue.
    Try the draught Heineken, it's nectar from the Gods....oh and do NOT
    shout "C'MON ITALY/NORWAY/MEXICO" at any stage of the proceedings....
    
    hope this helps....
    
    Ray....

       <<< Note 89.303 by IRNBRU::HOWARD "NYC,June 18 - ITA 0 - 2 RoI" >>>

>    .302
    
>    If you want a bit of an adventure try the Harp Bar right on O'Connell 
>    Bridge during any of the Ireland matches. Just one tip, tho. Get about
>    a dozen drinks in each time cos there's no chance of getting to the bar
>    twice during the match, oh and as soon as the half-time whistle blows
>    run for the toilets cos within seconds there will be a mile-long queue.
>    Try the draught Heineken, it's nectar from the Gods....oh and do NOT
>    shout "C'MON ITALY/NORWAY/MEXICO" at any stage of the proceedings....
    
>    hope this helps....
    
    Ray,

     Thanks for the tips. Being a true citizen of the world, I like to think
     I can easily assimilate any culture. With this in mind I have trying to
     adopt the attitude and behaviours of the typical Irish fan, So far I have
     mastered two standards... "Ole Ole Ole Ole " and 

     "No surrender" ( this suck me into a vortex of lurve). 


     Stuart

    .304
    Stuart,
    
    don't forget...."YOU'LL NEVER BEAT THE IRISH...."
    
    except the Czechoslovakians, or the Spanish, ah but sure they're
    ancient history now....
    
    and there's also.."OOH AHH PAUL MC GRATH..I SAID OOH AHH PAUL MC GRATH"
    
    I'll be going back myself on the 24th for the last 2 first-round
    matches....can't wait
        

    Stuart,
    
    Don't forget the song that goes...
    
    Super Super Rob
    Super Super Rob
    Super Super Rob
    Super Roberto Baggio...
    
    
    
    /GAry

    Work Cup Marketing is really starting to catch on here, but this was 
    the best ad of a bad lot.
    
    (Big letters)
    
    Oh-Ahh !
    
    Oh-Ahh !
    
    etc...
    
    
    
    Durex

    Re: Marketing.
    
    In the Sunday Telegraph (I can't get Irish papers here), there was a
    big article on Ireland and the World Cup. One of the more interesting
    (!) pictures showed the current Miss Ireland wearing an emerald green
    undergarment. Seemingly the logo goes "Oh Ahh Wonderbra !". Fiona (?)
    certainly looks far better than the original subject of the chant ;-)
    
    The main gist of the article was talking about "Hill 16", Jack's local 
    in Gardiner Street (Dublin). It described the area as "The sort of
    place where anyone seen wearing a suit and tie is assumed to be a
    defendant."  I'm sure any noters from the area will spring to its'
    defence, so I won't comment ;-)
    
    Jerry.

    Thanks, I wasn't paying much attention to the caption ;-)

>              <<< Note 89.310 by BERN01::BOLGER "Jerry Bolger." >>>
>         -< I knew there was an 'fin' there somewhere ! (work it out) >-
>
>
>    Thanks, I wasn't paying much attention to the caption ;-)
>

Oh we are so funny...!!!! Glad you liked my picture though.

Pamela.

    Kefin, 
    
    If Pamela is related, I don't suppose you could pass on her number,
    could you ?
    
    Jerry.

Sorry, no relation, and if I knew her number do you think I'd give it
out for free?

Kevin.

    Australia 1 (A.Vidmar) South Africa 0
    
    South Africa look over-rated to me.
    
    Ica

    
    �rebro, Wednesday
    
    Sweden 	4  	(Brolin 2, P. Andersson, Larsson)
    Lithuania	2
    
    

    
    Englands team to face the mighty yanks tomorrow is
    
    Seaman
    Le-Saux
    Pallister
    Adams
    Jones
    Venison
    Platt
    Barnes
    Anderton
    Sheringham
    Shearer
    
    Neil..
    

    I take back everything I said about Venables. He's picked Fat Barnes.
    There can be no logic in that decision, unless he has the same claus as
    Taylor that states that Barnes must play until he reaches the age of
    65.
    
    B^(
    
    
    
    Rich.

    
    What about Vennison..?, no disrespect to him, but he's average at best.
    I can't believe there are'nt younger players around that are better
    than him, Jamie Rednapp for starters...
    
    Sir Terry will be in danger of losing his Knighthood if he continues 
    with these Taylorism's.
    
    Dave... 

Well I'll tell you this for nothing, They aren't the best 11 English players( in
those positions ) in England ,by a long way.

Maybe Le-Saux , Jones , Shearer and Pratt , but as for the rest ?

All together now,

Nah Nah Nah Nah Nah 

Terry isa Taylor , Terry isa Taylor.

Peter.

    
    What the heck is Sheringham doing in there?!?!
    
    It comes to something when we now have Klinsmanns understudy
    representing the country.
    
    Is it ex-club loyalty showing through?
    
    Can we expect Vince Hilaire to be called up for the next one?
    
    
    Ian.
    

    
    Re-1
    
    You are obviously a fool, Edward Sheringham is a fine player who
    without doubt should be playing for England at the highest level.
    
    I have no doubts whatsoever that he will score tomorrow night, and
    start a fearsome partneship with Alan Shearer that will take us to
    European glory in 1996.
    
    Dave...(-:
    

    Hope England don't get a penalty though B^)
    
    
    
    Rich.

    Glad Vinnie got a cap at last!
    
    Paul.
    

    > I take back everything I said about Venables. He's picked Fat Barnes.
    > There can be no logic in that decision
    
    Even I can't argue with that.
    
    If he'd have picked Barnes alongside a young squad then maybe it might
    have been an acceptable idea (experience, stability).
    
    Mind you, I wont complain if he smashes in a hatrick.    
    
    
    Ian.
    

    Joke on the local radio this morning...
    
    What's the difference between John Barnes playing well for England and
    the Loch Ness monster?
    
    People claim to have seen the Loch Ness monster
    
    Ho, ho

    Would any of the U.S noters know when and where will the game be 
    broadcasted here in the States ? I read last week that it would most
    likely be ESPN or ESPN2. Could not get any more details though.... 
    
    Any details would allow me to program the good old VCR acordingly....
    
    Jacques                                                           

    jacques,
    
    It's not on ESPN - even though they manage to show an hour of sawing
    (yes cutting up logs) instead of baseball. 
    
    
    regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks

    re .326
    
    I read that ESPN2 was carrying the game live (3:00pm?) and ESPN was
    offering a tape delayed showing at 7.
    

    According to USA TODAY this morning, the tape delayed showing on ESPN
    starts at 7:30pm.
    
    Steve

I know Sky sports starts coverage at 7:00 but what time is KO ?

    Jacques (.325) 
    
    well blow me down ESPN faced with 6 blank hours of programming and an
    angry bunch of advertisers have decided to pick up U.S.A V Greatest
    Team in World at 7.30pm EDT tonight (according to SportsCenter) we
    still get a couple of hours of tractor pulling, body-building and beach
    volleyball to surround it but hey this is the real thing.
    
    Anyone know the u.S team?
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.wicks

    
    	England  2 : 0  USA
    
    	Shearer 33,
    	Shearer 43
     
    	Not too bad a performance for England who never looked in trouble.
    Having said that, the USA looked 2nd rate and had 2 shot in the entire
    game, both from miles outside the box & both going up into the stand!
    England didn't look all that impressive but their were decent
    performances from Shearer, Anderton, LeSaux and.... yes...Barnesy(!!)
    in particular.
    	Anderton is looking the business for England. LeSaux looked very
    good coming forward (his pin-point cross set up Shearer's 2nd - a
    diving header) but we need some stiffer opposition before being able to
    comment on his defensive abilities. John Barnes had a good game, was
    involved a lot and layed off a lot of nice passes. Dare I say he
    deserves another chance???? Teddy Sheringham was unlucky not to get on
    the score sheet having put the ball in the net only to have the goal
    rule (dubiously) off-side. Shearer was the class act of the night and
    pretty much ran rings around the USA "defense". He should have had his
    hat-trick but the two he got were sweet enough. When oh when is Billy
    Conolly going to give up pretending to be an American footballer & go
    back to his subtle brand of Scotch comedy??? 8-)
    	England should have had more but anyway, since Terry took over they
    a) haven't lost
    b) haven't conceeded a single goal
    c) (haven't played any half decent side 8-)
    
    	Nigeria next month will be an very interesting prospect. 
    
   JBG

    
    Oooops, I forgot to mention Barry Venison. He gave a very creditable
    performance for his first cap and clearly enjoyed himself. He fitted
    easily into Englands style & I wouldn't be surprised to see him win a
    few more caps now.
    
    JBG

    CAn't agree about Anderton; he was very ineffectual as usual. There was
    just no penetration down the right flank. Anderton did nothing there
    and Jones wouldn't come forward. Too much down the middle.
    
    As for venison; he was OK but he wouldn't drive forward like Ince does.
    This was where England were poor; no one seem to be interested. A very
    poor game against mediocre opposition.

    
    I thought that Alexei 'Half-man, half-poodle' Lalas had a pretty awful
    game last night. Shearer seemed to be able to turn him at will and to
    think some Italian club has coughed up a wad of money for him is 
    hilarious. He seemed pretty cumbersome (sp) and appears to be no more
    than a bog standard stopper in the Willie Young mold.
    
    Hey, didn't Willie Young have ginger hair too? 
    
    Andy

    
    I spent what seemed like the whole game shouting out "You're sh*t
    Lalas!!!!". He's a complete plonk.
    
    Tony
    
    

    Tony,
    
    That's just typical of the average yob supporter's attitude. Instead of
    just running the guy down why didn't you offer some helpful advice to
    try to enable him to improve his contribution !
    
    
    
    "Get off the pitch, Lalas, you useless s**t !!!"    springs to mind !
    
    
    Yours constructively,
    
    Jerry.   ;-)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
    

    I saw the Highlights on the box last night and was I delighted Coventry
    *lost* out on signing Lalos. He looked really rubbish.
    
    
    Tom Mc.

    
    England v Rumania
    
    The toughest test yet for Terry Venables, that is of course if Rumania
    are interested.
    
    Not sure of the team, but its been confirmed that Matt LeTiss will make
    his debut.
    
    Dave...

    
    The FA have had to shell out some dosh to the Romanians in the form of
    a win bonus. They want to ensure that the players whose names Tony
    Adams can't pronounce actually turn up and break sweat.
    
    
    Gazzer

    
    Well, Romania tested their defensive capabilities on Saturday....
    Seemed to work fine...now maybe they'll test their attack.
    
    I can't remember any International team doing this type of tour before
    i.e. competitive match away ...friendly match a few days
    later..'interesting!!'.
    
    Dezzz. 

    Re: .341
    
>    The FA have had to shell out some dosh to the Romanians in the form of
>    a win bonus. They want to ensure that the players whose names Tony
>    Adams can't pronounce actually turn up and break sweat.
    
    
    It's a sad state of affairs when the once great England have to bribe
    foreign opposition to turn up and make a match of it !
    
    Jerry. ;-)

    Was the bribe higher or lower than the one that the FA gave the U.S
    to let in two soft goals? and is cloughie the one handing over the
    dosh?
    
    Regards,
    
    Andrew.D.Wicks

Are you lot suggesting that England need to buy their wins?

Surely Not !

Dont forget 1966, 4 : 1 etc.. Yawn.......

ZZZZZZzzzzzz.......

<thunk>

    
    > Dont forget 1966, 4 : 1 etc..
    
    I must have forgotten it cos i'm sure it was 4-2.
    
    Ian.

What do I care, It was 8 years before I was born.

And I'm Welsh.

And I don't like Bobby Charlton.

Then you have no soul.

Mike

		Errr...I have no English Soul...don't you mean?

    Come back Gary Waite, all is forgiven ;-)

    >Come back Gary Waite, all is forgiven ;-)
    
    Gary Waite, my foot! I think this is Dave Tanner's long lost Welsh
    cousin ;-)
    
    

Gordon flippin' Bennett.  Is this English Humour?


;^)

    Re: -1
    
    > Gordon flippin' Bennett.  Is this English Humour?
    
    
    Jeeeez, you weren't joking when you said that you didn't know anything
    about England in 1966.  It was Gordon BANKS not Gordon Bennett.
    
    This is Irish humour ;-)
    
    Jerry.

I thought Terry Wogan was Irish Humour

    No, Terry was an Irish Tumor ;-)

It's the way you tell 'em

    
    	ENGLAND - ROMANIA
    
    	Match report anyone? Score? Scorers?
    
    	Thanks
    	/JF

A supremely dull match which BBC stuck with for over an hour of "edited 
highlights".  Le Tissier played OK, getting a good chance in the first 10 mins 
with a flick and smack jobby like he did in the league.  Lee's goal was well 
taken, but a touch fortunate, which sums the match up really.

The papers recon Romania deserved the win, but I recon it was a fair draw.

    It showed how far technically England have to go in catching up with
    the best in Europe. Adams should cop most of the blame for the Romanian
    goal (Painful to admit -here's the excuse) but Rob Jones should have
    come across to tackle as he could see Dumitrescu pulling away from
    Tone. A well taken volley from a good Petrescu cross, I think. 
    
    England's goal was not lucky Matt, thank you very much. Lee bursting
    onto a Shearer knock down. Overall, it was not that inspiring a game
    and not worth the twenty odd quid I spent on a ticket. I don't think
    that any of the England players had a good game. Most were average with
    Barnes having his normal England performance. Wright went close with a
    good strike from the edge of the area but it went straight at the
    'keeper and Le Tissier had a dipping volley which cleared the bar by
    several feet. I can't remember too many other chances. The Romanians
    looked threatening in the first half until they got to the penalty area
    and took off Hagi at half time and lost a fair amount of their
    attacking ideas. 
    
    It was I'm afraid to say a typical friendly but it would be interesting
    to see a full  strength England side playing a competitive game
    against the  Romanians. 
    
    Just a thought, who will drop out when Platt and the fat boy recover
    full fitness? Hopefully, Barnes and, unfortunately, Lee. Presumably Cole 
    will replace Wright in due course.
    
    Stuart
    eventually

They should keep Lee and drop that big jessie le Tissier. There are far too many
farty passy-passy midfielders around at the moment, and not enough proper fish
and chips eating crew-cut sporting real men. Personally I'd give Shaun Edwards a
game.

Mike

    Mike
    
    Presumably you would like to see Vinnie Jones in the England team
    then...
    
    Stuart

    Can anyone come up with a report on the England-Nigeria match? On
    paper, it looked like being a pretty interesting match, but I've only
    heard the result and not much else. (Given the huge number of EC
    qualifying ties played last night, I guess it's only natural that the
    friendlies get pushed into the background.)
    
    Dom

    Dom,
    
    from the hi-lites that I saw it looked like the goal came very much
    against the run of play. Nigeria looked very dangerous and skilful on
    the break but lacked the killer punch in the 18 yard area....The BBC
    commentator, (Motson?), reckoned that Wise was England's best player
    and McManaman looked dangerous on the wing....
    
    by the way, did you hear that the Republic of Ireland won 4-0 last
    night?...
    just thought I'd mention it....
    
    Ray....
    

    Ray,
    
    It's funny that you should mention the fact that Ireland defeated
    Northern Ireland 4-0 last night. Thta's the same number of goals that
    England scored in 1966 against Germany. Of course one of the England
    goals wasn't really a goal but we won't go into that again.
    
    In fact the two games were remarkably similar except for the fact that
    Ireland played brilliantly and thoroughly deserved the win, whereas
    England were just bloody lucky.
    
    Yours unbiasedly,
    
    Jerry.           

"....they think it's all over....but people will still be going on about it in 
40 bloody years."

    Matt
    
    Is that 40 years from when the event took place or 40 years from now?
    In either case, you seriously underestimate the ability of the English
    football fan to cling to past glories. Take Jerry and all the ManU fans
    as an example....;-)
    
    Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    I'm bloody well Irish  !!!!!  By the way, did I mention that ManU have
    won the Premiership for the last two years and exactly a week ago today
    we beat arch-rivals Man City 5-0 at Old Trafford ?
    
    Jerry.

    >It's funny that you should mention the fact that Ireland defeated
    >Northern Ireland 4-0 last night. Thta's the same number of goals that
    >England scored in 1966 against Germany. Of course one of the England
    >goals wasn't really a goal but we won't go into that again.
    
    >In fact the two games were remarkably similar except for the fact that
    >Ireland played brilliantly and thoroughly deserved the win, whereas
    >England were just bloody lucky.
    
    And let's not forget the standard of the opposition, Jerry. I'm sure a
    depleted Northern Ireland would have given any German team, past or
    present, a sound thrashing.
    
    Yours in xenophobic paranoia,
    
    Paul.

    
    ... and so far all of you have neglected to a actually tell the result
    of the bloody game.

1 - 0.

both teams missed lots of chances, and the Nigerians could have scored a bucket 
load of goals, if they'd had a decent finisher up front.

    Re:
    
>    And let's not forget the standard of the opposition, Jerry. I'm sure a
>    depleted Northern Ireland would have given any German team, past or
>    present, a sound thrashing.
    
    
    Very true Paul.
    
    Jerry.

	Help!

	I don't suppose any bright spark knows how to change the default
	editor to TPU, perchance ?

	Forgive my incompetence but I never got the hang of EVE, EDT, LSEDIT,
	etc.....

	Mind you, I'm a dab hand at DKED and K52 (2 golden oldies for any
	PDP11 fans out there)

    

sorry.  that went straight over my head.

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....................

<thunk>

    .373
    
    set profile/editor=eve
    
    
    glad to be of assistance....
    
    by the way, did you know that the RoI beat N.Irl 4-0 last night?...
    
    just thought that I'd mention it....
    
    Ray....

    Ray,
    
    It's funny you should mention ......
    
    
    Jerry.

    Now I can slag John Hussey.

    Whatever turns you on ...  ;-)

    Of course, the other extraordinary similarity between 
    England 4-2 W.Germany (1966) and N. Ireland 0-4 Rep. Ireland (1994) is
    the number of Englishman who finished on the scoresheet: 2 in each case
    (Hurst/Peters and Aldridge/Townsend). Uncanny, I'd say...
    
    Now, at the risk of starting off another ginormous rathole with a
    similar controversial request, what about that U21 result? It didn't
    make the Italian newspapers...
    
    Dom
    
    P.S. Matt, can we assume that Georgia had a half-decent finisher up
    front?

Re .377

You've joined us then Malcolm.  Did you tell them how bald & fat you are :-)))

He's also another bloody 'tic supporter.

Can't these Scot's buggers support a decent team like Southend Utd :-)

re -2

No, we can assume that Southall is crap, and that Mike Smith will shortly be 
returning his car keys to the Welsh Footy Union.

    Gor blimey guv'nor, talk about getting your retaliation in first.
    
    As we're starting on the basic physical appearance level allow me to be
    the first to mention taxis with doors open.
    
    Malc.
    

    >As we're starting on the basic phyiscal appearance level allow me to
    >be the first to mention taxis with doors open.
    
    Malc.
    
    Please elaborate. We need distracting.
    
    Stuart

    Well Stuart I don't know if this is a Scottish saying or what but you
    may have heard the phrase:
    
    	"He looks like a taxi with the doors open"
    
    Sorry guys, I thought it was common parlance. I stand corrected.
    
    Malc.
    
    PS. IRNBRU::HOWARD My Editor is now TPU, ta. How can I make it set up the 
    EDT keypad automatically when I enter, instead of setting it manually each
    time, as per my normal edit sessions ?
    

    >the number of Englishman who finished on the scoresheet: 2 in each case
    >(Hurst/Peters and Aldridge/Townsend). Uncanny, I'd say...
    
    Dom,
    
    Your rathole has been hi-jacked by the arrival of yet another Scotsman
    in here. Will he be as "single minded" as our young CTT I wonder.
    Anyway to get back onto NI v RoI your statistic above is completely
    incorrect. In fact there were more Englishmen on the scoresheet last
    night than in the "other game" - you forget to mention that Mancunian
    and true Red Devil (spit) John Sheridan.
    
    Paul.

    >Your rathole has been hi-jacked by the arrival of yet another Scotsman
    >in here. Will he be as "single minded" as our young CTT I wonder.
    >Anyway to get back onto NI v RoI your statistic above is completely
    >incorrect. In fact there were more Englishmen on the scoresheet last
    >night than in the "other game" - you forget to mention that Mancunian
    >and true Red Devil (spit) John Sheridan.
    
    Paul, 
    John Sheridan? Naaah...you don't mean to say...
    
    Well, bang goes my theory that to get a cap for Ireland you need to
    have a name like "Ted Stringfellow" or "Reginald Ponsonby-Smythe". I'd
    always assumed Sheridan was Irish (when are Italian TV going to start
    using sub-titles instead of voiceovers for their interviews?). 
    
    Flabbergasted of Milan, Lombardy (via Brighton, E.Sussex)
    
    
    

    
    Can someone please confirm rather quickly as to whether the Welsh
    Football Managers job is to be re-named "The National Lottery".
    
    Andy
    

>>> PS. IRNBRU::HOWARD My Editor is now TPU, ta. How can I make it set up the 
>>> EDT keypad automatically when I enter, instead of setting it manually each
>>> time, as per my normal edit sessions ?
    
    
    Malc.
    
    I don't think this is possible I'm afraid,or am I being silly again????
    
    4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0
    
    
    Ray....

    You know, I really don't think there was anything in .363 to spark off
    a rathole of these proportions.
    
    4-0 indeed.
    
    Dom

    
    Dom,
    
    	to get back to your orignal requests some 100 or so notes ago.....
    
    	Well, before I do, just let me say Ireland were damn lucky and
    Wales had all the play only to be beaten by 5 goals, all of which
    deflected in off the referee.
    
    	Ok, back to the England game. Denis Wise was indeed the best
    England player. He put in some lovely crosses and was unlucky not to
    score with a diving header from near the edge of the box. Rude-duck 8-)
    seemed to enjoy himself blasting long balls for the left winger & he
    even managed to elbow the Nigerian keeper in the face & make it look
    accidental. Great potential! %-) Mcmanaman looked confident when he
    came on. Unfortunately there was no real bite to the English game, no
    urgency. It was all pretty relaxed. Shearer & Beardsley never really
    made any impression, Barnes, as was already mentioned, look ok in a
    more defensive role.
    	The Nigerians showed some lovely skills & had the majority of the
    possesion for long periods. The defense of set pieces let them down &
    Platt got his headed goal from a Wise free kick. Nigeria never gave up
    and could have snatched the equaliser in the 4th minute of injury time.
    Flowers had a pretty busy game and kept England in it with a few good
    saves. Quite an entertaining game - liked the Nigerians confidence &
    skill (eg. when under pressure in their own corner they weren't afraid
    to chip the ball to the other full back in the opposite corner). Wise
    probably deserves another cap & Ruddock & Howey won't have done their
    chances any harm.
    
    JBG
    
    Ps. The England U21's beat Ireland U21's 1:0. Can't remember who
    scored. Chris Sutton was playing, along with Nicky Butts & Sol Campbell
    plus a few others! 8-)

    When I got home last night, in amongst the usual junk from Computer
    Weekly and Barclaycard (and stroppy letters from the leccy board)
    there was a letter from a certain Mr Moores........
    
    
    	Guys, guys, I've won the pools !!! The huge sum of .....
    
    
    			10 poonds and 88 new pence !
    
    Drinks on me. I know I signed the no publicity box but the hell with it.
    
    Malc.
    
    PS I've already had a begging letter from John Hussey.
    

>>> PS. IRNBRU::HOWARD My Editor is now TPU, ta. How can I make it set up the 
>>> EDT keypad automatically when I enter, instead of setting it manually each
>>> time, as per my normal edit sessions ?
    
>    Malc.
>    
>    I don't think this is possible I'm afraid,or am I being silly again????
>
>    4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0 4-0
>
>    Ray....
    

    Malc,
    
    Ray is being silly again !  Try  "set Profile/editor=edt".  This sets 
    the editor to TPU but defines the EDT keypad automatically.
    
    Anyway, back to the original subject "Why can't English people just
    accept that some English-born footballers simply have enough vision to 
    realise that their only chance of getting a medal in a serious 
    competition is to play for the Republic ?"

    Answers on a post-card to ...  ;-)
 
    Jerry.

    
    Thanks Jerry this appears to be an improvement.
    
    
    There is absolutely no reason why someone with vague-ish connections
    with another country should not play for that country if he so chooses
    for one reason or another (but not hop about between one country and
    the other depending on who is offering him a game). Perhaps its a
    question of conscience more than anything. I qualify to play for England
    by parentage but I don't think I would. Mind you, TV hasn't exactly
    been beating a path to my door exorting me to play. Perhaps that's him
    on the dog and bone now.....
    
    Malc.
    

You know your parents the Malc - lucky you.  Now if I had a dad....

Re. approx -40

I don't think I look much like a taxi.  I think they're much prettier than me.
Esp. in London where they don't just have balck ones, but red, yellow and my 
favorite the FT one. Then there's the Evening standard one, the Huthinson orange
one, the...


PS. Is the baldness from your mother's or father's side, Malc :-)

    
    Well now John....
    
    Don't expect any sympathy for being an orphan, nor will we be impressed
    by your extensive knowledge of London taxis (you sad man).
    
    If you say you don't look like a taxi that's fine by me. You just carry
    on doing your impersonation of the Scottish Cup.
    
    I know you're insanely jealous of my massive pools win. Grass doesn't grow
    on a busy street you know.
    
    Malc
    

    NETHERLANDS  0:1  FRANCE
    
    		      Loko (43')
    
    A yound and unexperienced Dutch side with 5 substitutions versus an
    established French side looking for confidence before the crucial Euro
    game in Israel in a few weeks time.
    
    For the first 30 minutes the Dutch were all over, with their academic
    2-winger and passing game. Not too many chances but always dangerous.
    
    Then Desailly and Ferri decided it was enough and rebelled. France
    moved forward and that set-up Cantona always wakes up.
    
    Eric controlled at midfield, passed to P�dros who launched the perfect
    long pass to a running Loko who let it drop and half-volleyed a rocket
    which De Goy could not control.
    
    Second half was even with some good moves on both sides.
    
    Holland needs to bring back some veterans (aged more than 21, that is)
    and France must build on the confidence they gained last night to, once
    and for all, understand that they only play well when they press and
    move forward. Then, and only then, can the flair of Cantona, P�dros and
    al. really be used positively. Never mind who is centre half, Papin,
    Ou�dec.
    
    Did you notice that with Alain Roche missing, the defence still stood
    and the ball went to midfield more accurately?
    
    The Under-21s beat Holland 2-1 with goals from Maurice and Pires.
    
    The A' beat Belarus 1:0 with a Gravelaine goal.
    
    /JF

    JF - pretty much what I said in the Dutch topic.   The only difference
    was that you watched it in the warmth of a living room on the Cote
    D'Azur, while I was sitting up in the Gods in the Stadium of Concrete
    (FC Utrecht to you).
    
    Ray

    Bolton have pulled Jason McAteer out of next Wednesday's game against
    England at Fortress Lansdowne....
    
    Does anybody know what time the match starts? Will it be shown on Sky
    or BBC1 live?...
    
    Ray....                          

    
    IRELAND V ENGLAND  WED 15/02/95
    
    There was a time when this game would have stirred up all sorts of
    mayhem on the notes, but now it seems it hardly gets a mention.
    
    Well I predict a long overdue win for Totte...err sorry, England as the
    Irish seem to be struggling to put together 11 fit players.
    
    Dave...                                                    

 PROBABLE TEAMS
 REPUBLIC OF IRELAND - A Kelly (Sheffield Utd); Irwin (Manchester Utd), Phelan
 (Manchester City), McGrath (Aston Villa), Kernaghan (Manchester City); 
McGoldrick (Arsenal), Townsend (Aston Villa), Sheridan (Sheffield Wednesday), 
Staunton (Aston Villa); Quinn (Manchester City), D Kelly (Wolverhampton).

 ENGLAND: Seaman (Arsenal); Barton (Wimbledon), Le Saux (Blackburn), 
Ince (Manchester Utd), Adams (Arsenal), Pallister (Manchester Utd), 
Anderton (Tottenham), Platt (Sampdoria), Barmby (Tottenham), Le Tissier 
(Southampton), Shearer (Blackburn).

    Easy, Easy, Easy....
    
    3 - 0 for the boys in green, at least....
    
    Ray....

The teams are correct except that Beardsley replaces Barmby


 PROBABLE TEAMS
 REPUBLIC OF IRELAND - A Kelly (Sheffield Utd); Irwin (Manchester Utd), Phelan
 (Manchester City), McGrath (Aston Villa), Kernaghan (Manchester City); 
McGoldrick (Arsenal), Townsend (Aston Villa), Sheridan (Sheffield Wednesday), 
Staunton (Aston Villa); Quinn (Manchester City), D Kelly (Wolverhampton).

 ENGLAND: Seaman (Arsenal); Barton (Wimbledon), Le Saux (Blackburn), 
Ince (Manchester Utd), Adams (Arsenal), Pallister (Manchester Utd), 
Anderton (Tottenham), Platt (Sampdoria), Beardsley (Newcastle), Le Tissier 
(Southampton), Shearer (Blackburn).

I'm off to the game tomorrow, so here's hoping for a good game of football.
What odds another draw.

�@

    
    I`ve just heard that the game was abandoned due to crowd trouble,if 
    this is true it has put football back 10 years.
    
    With the Euro Championships in England coming up,the pressure is on
    the English FA to prove to UEFA that they can stamp out any trouble.
    
    Davie. 

    
    This looked like a orchestrated disturbance. Apparently, it was known
    beforehand that there would be trouble but there wasnt much they could
    do about it except stop them from getting into the ground, which they
    didnt. 
    
    Sickening scenes of landsdowne road being torn apart and the bits
    hurled down on other English supporters below. Then after the match had
    been abandoned, running battles with riot police. What the hell is
    going on???
    
    Ian.
    
        

I have heard from this in Austrian TV . I have heard, one dead, many injured.

What do English and Italian "fans" make with football. The event has been 
after the 1:0 for Ireland.

I think no good start for the EC in England, sorry.

Heribert

    
    	Before the torrent starts I think its worth a quick match
    report....
    
    	Ireland came out with all guns firing, closed England down, tackled
    hard & every time they touched the ball the crowd went wild. England
    weren't given a chance to settle and their defence soon looked shaky
    with McGoldrick, Kelly & Quinn having early chances. Paul McGrath was
    doing a man to man job on Shearer with the full support of he crowd and
    his team mates.
    	Anderton got a shot on target from the edge of the box but hadn't
    got enough power into it to trouble Alan Kelly in the Irish goal. After
    around 22 minutes some handy passing allowed Kelly (the other one) to
    slip between his markers down the left and from a narrow angle blast a
    shot home. The England keeper got a hand to it put couldn't stop it
    going in. 1:0 to Ireland, no more than they deserved and the game
    looked like it was becoming a cracker. After the restart a few heavy
    tackles began to creep in as England tried to claw the game back.
    The commentators then spotted some trouble in the upper tier of one of
    the stands and when the ref saw it too he immeadiately stopped the game
    and took the players off.
    	From the outset of trouble I guessed the game would be abandoned
    which is what happened 20 minutes later. I leave the graffic details to
    someone else. It was a great game spoiled. Another Irish defeat of
    England in the making, it would have been invaluable experience to see
    if / how England could come back.
    
    JBG

    I don't think anyone died (unless it happened in the last hour). One
    press photographer has suffered a broken skull.
    
    Dave.

    Well those were disgraceful seens from Ireland... I was really ashamed
    to called myself an England fan...
    
    From the radio reports I heard this morning, security at the match
    seemed to be pretty slack... and it sounds like the Irish police didn't
    take seriously the warnings of trouble from the Football Intelligence
    Dep. of the British Police. 
    
    I hope they don't cancel the Euro96 championships... I was really
    looking forward to the competition.... we'll just have to see..
    
    Rick.

    > I was really ashamed to called myself an England fan...
    
    Don't be. I'd be very suprised if they were football fans, this had all the
    hallmarks of an organised disturbance.
    
    JBG> Didnt England have a goal disallowed?
    
    
    Ian.

    
    	Well, ashamed to be English then, Ian. I am when I see such
    	awful scenes on foreign soil.
    	
    	Let's hope that when these scum come before the Irish courts this
    	morning that they are remanded to appear on attempted murder 
    	charges (those that were throwing bits of the stadium at supporters
    	below) and/or riot charges (all the rest of them).
    
    	Those that are guilty should serve 5 years. Kick the bastards into
    	prison. I'm sick to death of them.
    
    	Andy. 
       

    
    > Well, ashamed to be English then, Ian.
    
    Too right, apparently there were a lot of kids at the game too, is this
    what we want to be showing them? 
    
    Any noters actually there last night?
    
    Ian.

    I think that it would be a shame to change the venue of Euro 96 as I'm
    really looking forward to getting to a lot of the matches. As has been
    said before, these scum-sucking sub-human troglodytes were not football
    fans but professional hooligans and unfortunately their master plan
    worked, they got a major sporting fixture cancelled....it's unfortunate
    too, from a sporting point of view because a great match was
    developing. Ireland scored one of their sweetest goals under Jack
    Charlton's reign, a flowing move from the Irish penalty box to the
    opposite end with a sweet Kelly strike and a fortunate in-off from
    Seaman....then the madness took over. 
    
    I don't think our English friends in this conference should be ashamed
    in any way. I'm in no positon to lecture or advise anyone on this
    matter but English football really should disassociate themselves from
    these people by refusing to sell tickets to away games. It's a harsh
    measure but if it stops scenes like we saw last night then it will be
    the worth the pain....
    
    Let's hope that UEFA don't over-react....
    
    Ray.... 

    The death last night was of an old guy on his way from the ground.
    Apparently, he suffered a heart attack.
    
    As for the trouble, Andy is right. It is now time for everyone to stop
    pussyfooting around and lock 'em up.
    
    After all the hype around last night's events has died down, only then
    should a decision be made about Euro 96. I doubt very much whether it
    will be taken away from England but EUFA will probably view it as a
    last chance saloon.
    
    On a different subject, I was at Swindon v Bolton on Sunday and outside
    the ground there was a moron in a Millwall hat trying to stir up
    trouble with the Bolton fans. Unfortunately, the Policee were quite
    content to let him do so until he got clouted by a couple of Bolton
    fans.
    
    Stuart

    
    .411
    
    Ian, I think Brian Long said he was going. Obviously he's not back yet.
    Still in the pokey perhaps ?
    
    Malc.
    

    Why, if British Intelligence were able to inform the Irish police that
    they should expect trouble could they not prevent those people from
    leaving Britain ? Prevention of terrorism act allows detention for up
    to 7 days without having to explain why one is being detained, why not
    use it !
    
    I think the hosting of the EC96 in England must be seriously looked at
    now. This is where these people live and they will have a field day. 
    Unfortunately it would also mean England not qualifying as they
    wouldn't be hosts anymore........

        
    "Fans" that have been deported from other countries where they have
    caused trouble and known offenders are still able to get to these
    major international fixtures. How is that? Surely they shouldn't be
    let out of the country. 
    
    Once again it is the filth of the NF and other right-wing extremist
    organisations using football as a medium for their own designs. I had
    thought that this element had been somewhat erradicated from the game
    but with the rise of organisations such as the BNP, I suppose we should
    have realised they would once again infiltrate football.
    
    These people do not want peace in Ireland, they do not want the IRA
    disbanded, they want to keep the IRA in existence as an organisation
    they can vent their own little 'War' against. These sick fascists are
    known to our police and authorities - they should not be allowed
    to travel outside of England, they should not be allowed to attend
    football matches.
    
    Andy

This is a Report from a fan (Rob Mason) who was at the game. It seems to be well
balanced and well written so I decided to enter it here. It's long but worth a
read.

Peter.


From:	XSTACY::VBORMC::"[email protected]" "Rob Mason" 16-FEB-1995
09:44:14.19
To:	[email protected]
CC:	
Subj:	Dublin last night(Long)

Well,
	I suppose I'll send some mail though those of you who saw it on TV may
have had a better view.
	I was on the north terrace which was the opposite end of the ground
from where the majority of the English fans were.Our first sign of trouble was
when we saw debris being thrown on the pitch.This was after Ireland had gone
one up and England had had a Platt goal disallowed for offside.I would not
suggest for a minute that either of these incidents sparked the trouble.Neither
do I think the admittedly shameful booing of the English anthem had anything to
do woth it either.
	The only part of it I saw anyway close up was when we were trying to
leave the flow out of the ground appeared very restricted and eventually a cry
went up from near the exits for everyone to move back.We assumed someone was
getting crushed but then there was a charge by a group of 50-70 English fans
through the crowd and up toward the opposite end.Some of them attacked police
and Irish fans who had been evacuated from the West Stand on the pitch.I don't
know where these people came from ,some people said that they had spilled out
from the opposite end earlier and made there way around though some others say
there was a group of about 100 English fans in one section of the North
Terrace.They may have been the group who charged the schoolboy enclosure on the
south terrace, or they may have been a group of English fans not involved but
who feared some form of retribution and wanted to get out on the pitch to
safety ,I don't know what they did after that as I was just getting out at that
time.
Apparently one man in his 60's died of a heart attack while he was leaving the
ground, whether he had been near the incidents I don't know.There are
apparently 30-50 people injured but there is no report of serious injury,
approx 45 people were arrested and there are reports of further skirmishes
taking place at the ferry ports.
	As regards BNP/Nat Front involvement this is being strongly reported
over here.The 2 English arrested on Tuesday night after a city centre barman
was stabbed with a glass were said by police to have been identified as members
of the national front.Furthermore it is claimed by the leader of the main
opposition party here who was in the VIP box in the stand where the trouble
occured (and who is though a gobsshite in every other way , a genuine football
fan), that an FA official sitting near him was able to identify several
national front members among the English section.From my point of view all I
could see was that firstly there was a degree of Nazi saluting going on in that
section and secondly that among the group who charged on at our end there were
no English scarfs or colours but lots of skinheads (I know skinhead = Nazi is a
dreadful generalisation so I present that fact as circumstantial).
	There certainly seemed to be a good degree of organisation in what
happened.
	My  observations were that there was a very , at best, naive approach
from the FAI and the Irish police.No roads had been closed of near the ground ,
at least at the north end and there was minimal police presence, whether this
was because they were concentrated near the other end I don't know.
	Secondly why was there no cleared area of stand between the Irish and
English sections.This hampered Police access to the original troublemakers .If
these could have been got at in the beginning perhaps the match wouldn't have
had to be abandoned therby not allowing the situation to flame up even more.I
suspect the reason is the FAI's bums on seats at all costs policy of milking
every last penny they can.
	Also why did it take 20 minutes for police in riot gear to get to the
incident area.The ordinary guys couldn't be expected to do much with all stuff
being chucked at them.
	Finally how did the BNP get so many tickets if as claimed they were the
main protagonists.
	For the record it was shaping up to being an excellent game with
unusuall for an Ireland England game both sides determined to play the ball on
the ground ,this despite the windy conditions.
	I hope UEFA  don't overreact to  this , banning England from holding
the finals would deny genuine English fans from showing the positive side of
the game and there support.The FA and English govt can't be allowed to dump on
genuine fans because their travel club , oft criticised on this list, was part
of a f*!k up.
	Furthermore there is the makings of one of the most entertaining and
skillful English teams in many years , let's not see them banned as a result of
what was allegedly a premeditated attempt at political subversion by the BNP.
	I don't know if this explains anything but I am still in a state of
shock and disgust that all this happened and the most part of my sympathy is
with the decent majority of English fans who due to a combination of these
dickheads and naive organisation have been tainted yet again.

PS I got letters from the BBC and FA in reponse to the Bosnich incident which
I'll post later if I can get up the enthusiasm.


-- 
Regards,                            
 Rob.
                                      "Football's about nothing unless
                                       it's about something and the 
                                       something it's about is football"
                                       - Alan Langley (A.K.A Peter Cook)
    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |  Rob Mason                       *  Test Systems Engineering        |
    |  [email protected](Internet)*  Ext: 378                        | 
    |  [email protected](X400)      *  Pager: 374                      |
    |          Motorola B.V., Swords, Co. Dublin, Ireland.                |
    |---------------------------------------------------------------------|




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With reference to the IRA, the English crowd were chanting something like "No 
surrender to the IRA" for quite a while.

    re: .417
    A very detailed and (apparently) objective report - thanks for entering
    that, Peter.
    
    I recall the BNP being implicated in football-related disturbances as
    far  back as the Heysel disaster in 1985. If memory serves, only one of
    the fans arrested on that occasion was actually from Liverpool; if that
    doesn't suggest "organised" hooliganism, nothing does. But we still
    seem unable to prevent these scum from getting abroad to "support" the
    national team. (Their behaviour towards David Platt, who was pelted
    with rubble and abuse when he tried to call them to reason, shows to
    what extent they can be considered supporters.)
    
    Right wing extremists/sympathizers seem to be responsible for the vast
    majority of crowd trouble around the world. The problem is endemic here
    in Italy, and after every skirmish on the terraces you see the same
    morons with their scarves covering their faces, giving the Fascist
    salute.
    
    Fortunately, the Anti-Nazi Movement(s) in Britain regularly make their
    presence felt, and the BNP is a pretty laughable organization when
    compared to the Nationalist parties of many (if not most) countries in
    Continental Europe. I split my sides this morning on reading a
    newspaper report of the visit to Britain of Gianfranco Fini, head of
    Italy's National Alliance (ex-Fascist) party. Large scale
    demonstrations outside the conference room, embarassing questions from
    the press, and to top it all, a Labour spokesman referred to Fini  as
    "Mussolini dressed by Giorgio Armani"...I'd loved to have seen his face
    when that was translated over the headphones ;-)
    
    Unfortunately, Britain's Fascist minority seems to have targeted
    football stadiums as the best place for their anti-social practices.
    
    Dom

    I think most countries have had there share of soccer "hooligans" but
    here in Scotland we had a particularly hard time in the late 70s early
    80s. The SFA and police worked together and made a lot of
    recomendations regarding banning alcohol from grounds and coaches etc.
    The most effective recomendation which was implemented was that if a
    "fan" was convicted with a soccer related offence he was made to report
    to his local police station at kick off time each match day, if he
    never appeared he was re-arrested and dealt with.
    This type of punishment could be implemented in local or international
    games thus ensuring the culprit could not attend the game.
    The English FA seem to have been pussyfooting around lately with some
    of the other issues which has been causing concern in there own
    backyard. They should deal with this quickly and decisively and stand
    firm against moving the Euro. Championships anywhere else.
    IMHO if they lose this battle then the hooligans will surely have won
    the war.
    

    
    	There were two points mentioned on the TV last night which stood
    out to me :
    
    1. 'Known troublemakers' (i.e. people with convictions for doing
    exactly this sort of thing) were identified in the crowd even before
    the game began.
    
    So why couldn't these guys be extracted before any trouble began, or at
    the very least have a polis sit down beside them and threaten them with
    a thick ear if any trouble starts ?
    
    2. There were only supposed to be 2000 England tickets allocated but
    4500 turned up (with tickets).
    
    So how did that happen then ?
    
    	That utter prat of a Home Secretary Michael Howard was on telly
    blustering on about full enquiries and what have you when what is
    needed is proper action. The man is a waste of space and should have
    resigned long ago. He goes on and on about a hard line on law and order
    then will not capitalise the police or the prison service so that
    something can really be done. It makes me spew.
    
    Malc.
    

    
    The National Front have already denied any part of last nights trouble, 
    just because they have skinheads it doesn't mean their BNP/NF..
    
    

    
    ...and who believes a bunch of rascist thugs?
    
    

    For once, I found myself agreeing with something that Jimmy Hill said
    last night. He was spouting on in the usual way about it being
    Society's problem (it is) and not footballs (not strictly true). He
    also said that now is the time to decide whether or not we want to
    tolerate this sort of incident or whether politicians were going to
    stand up and actually do something about this. From Malc's note, Mr
    Howard will not be doing anything positive and it will fall to the FA
    to deal with.
    
    On the subject of confiscating passports, under British law they cannot
    be taken away from citizens. Looking into the future, the EC wish to do
    away with border controls which would seem to be an open invitation for
    this event to occur with much more frequency unless the mindless morons
    responsible are dealt with. 
    
    Good God, I think I've just agreed with a Tory MP, I'm feeling faint...
    
    Stuart
                              

    
    	But Stuart, passports did not make a blind bit of difference to
    last nights fracas. Convicted felons were ALLOWED to go to a football
    match in another country with the distinct possibility that they might
    cause trouble. The police had the perfect opportunity to stop them at
    the ports and airports where they had to identify themselves but this
    was not done. WHY NOT ??? Anything to do with the Tories decimating the
    numbers of Customs Officers in this country perchance ?
    
    Malc.
    

There are no Passport controls between Ireland and England.

    re -1
    
    > the police had the perfect opportunity to stop them at
    > the ports and airports where they had to identify themselves but
    > this was not done. WHY NOT ???
    
    I don't think that the law of the land allows them to. The only thing
    is to make them appear at a Police station at set times. Then again,
    would this deter them? No, I don't think so. Locking them up is the
    only solution and locking them for a long time as well.
    
    > passports did not make a blind bit of difference to last nights fracas.
    
    No Malc, they didn't. Which was the point I was trying to make. Freedom
    to travel between borders will mean that this will recur *unless* there
    are laws in place to detain people when matches with the potential for
    trouble are taking place. This would mean taking them into custody 7
    days before a match and holding them until it's conclusion. But then we
    would have infringements of civil liberties which seem to be more
    important when UK citizens are involved and do not take into account
    the fact that by wreaking havoc with Dublin last night, the civil
    liberties of the Irish people were infringed.
    
    Stuart
    
    

    
    > There are no Passport controls between Ireland and England.
    
    Oh.
    
    Well that explains that then.
    
    (but why aren't there any controls ?)
    

My opinion to this case from a third side (I am Austrian):

I have visited often England (London , Newcastle, aso.) and I am a fan of
Irish country and people.
Mostly I have seen nice people in both countries. I have visited English
football matches (Chelsea,Newcastle) and there have been no troubles.
Therefore this has been not typical for the people of England.

But I had contact with English fans in Austria ( Arsenal,Liverpool, aso.) 
and thery has been absolutely contrary to the fans in England - destroying,
unkind in other countries.

My conclusion of this: This group of "fans" is not so big , but therefore
I have two questions:

1. Why England don't prevent of leaving their country before such matches ?
2. I think, the economy of England is not the best, have these fans no
problems to pay for all this matches ? 

By the way, I don't understand the discussion in England of the event 
Cantona. I don't see any reason to apologize his doing. 

Heribert

    Just to let you know that, according to the Daily Mail, Eric Cantona 
    may well be responsible for "reignit(ing) the whole hooligan syndrome".
    So there we have it. The solution to our problems is jailing Eric
    Cantona. 
    
    And there's me thinking that it was mindless bigots who were
    responsible.
    
    Stuart

    I think we need to not loose focus on responsibilities.
    
    Idiotic quotes like the "government expert on football holligans" on the
    news this morning that Cantona started this is beyond belief.
    Similarly blaming the ineffectiveness of the Dublin police (which does
    seem fair) detarcts from the real issue.
    
    For me the fact is that these guys know they can go abroad with little
    risk of punishment. Indeed they usualy get a free ticket home because
    the first act is to ship them home.
    
    Let them spend some time in foreign prisons and then lets see how many
    travel abroad.
    
    Yes society is pretty f*d up, yes football stadiums are an easy target,
    yes we should not be able to lock people up ON SUSPICION of intent to
    commit a crime BUT for God's sake last night was at least attempted
    homicide if not attempted murder.  Charge them with it and put them
    away.
    
    Sufficiently tough deterrants would work !
    

    
    I quite agree. Hopefully the Irish will have the sense to put some of
    them away for a bit - even then you run  the risk of trapping innocents
    in the same net.
    
    How about England playing Turkey away in a friendly & setting a trap to
    catch the whole gang of hooligans in one go. Then stick 'em in a
    Turkish jail cell & drop the key in the Bosphurus 8-)
    
    JBG

    JBG,
    
    The Bosphurus is the river that separates the European part of Istanbul
    from the Asian part, isn't it? ;-)
    
    Dom (O' Level geography 1978)

    On reading the previous mails, 2 things strike me as being of
    particular importance.
    
    1)	How the hell did these so called fans get tickets and
    
    2)	Why were the police so slow to react to the situation. I cannot
    believe that there wasn't any warning to the events when it was pointed
    out that known criminals were in the crowd. Also as soon as there are
    four and a half thousand people that turn up, when there should only be
    two thousand, I would certainly start to get a bit suspicious of
    possible events.
    
    I am absolutely horrified at what happened last night because I believe
    this will not only have an effect on England staging the European
    Championships, but I fear that other home countries supporters will get
    tarred with the same brush as these English supporters, and have their
    good records put in jeopardy. We live in a civilized world for Christ sake,
    but on last nights performance, there are some people that obviously
    harp back to Neanderthals !!!
    
    N.B. How the hell can some "Expert" claim that the Cantona incident was
    the trigger for all of this. What a F***ing Tw*t !!!!
    
    
    Ian.
    

    
    Gerry Francis said the look on Ince's face as he walked from the pitch
    summed up the night.. Paul Ince is just as bad as they are, even if
    he isn't a member of the NF or BNP ..  He was probably looking for 
    some seating to throw :-)                                             

    
    	In what way is Paul Ince "just as bad as they are", and who do
    	you mean by "they"...
    
    	I have a suspicion as to your inference, Andy. But I'd like you
    	to make it clear what you mean, and why.
    
    	Andy.

    
    .430
    
    Heribert, you are correct. It is only a tiny minority of fans that
    perpetrate these acts (thankfully) and most fans are decent people
    (well more or less). I think one of the main problems is that when it
    comes to international matches every teams yob element is suddenly
    concentrated into one area. You only have to look at the flags from all
    different parts of England to work that one out.
    	Your first question is discussed elsewhere in this note, there are
    a few answers to your second question.
    
    a. The foreign matches are very infrequent. This is England's first
    foray into Europe in two years (I think).
    
    b. Foreign matches are not usually very dear. There are always little
    package deals going about which are often quite cheap.
    
    c. You'd be surprised how many of these people hold down decent
    respectable well-paid jobs.
    
    d. They only need to buy a one way ticket because they know they will
    get deported home at the other end !
    
    Malc.
    

    I was at the game in Lansdowne Road yesterday and it was a disgrace to
witness. I was standing in the South terrace, behind the goal that England were
defending. The atmosphere before and during the game was electric, the best
that I have witnessed there. A full house of 46,000 and the football was very
exciting with Ireland doing most of the attacking.

I didn't notice anything until after Kelly had scored. Then most peole on the
south terrace began looking up into the West upper stand where we could see
scuffles developing. I thought that would be sorted out very quickly but it
began to develop. Then the thugs began to throw down the seats and timber
supports to the seats below. So the fans began to evacuate the lower stands and
stream onto the pitch. They continued throwing these missiles for a considerable
length of time. 

It's just the hooligan minority that have caused the problems again. There are
a lot of genuine English fans out there but the minority ruin the whole thing
and they could be responsible for getting their team banned from the Euro
championships.


Regards,

C U N N O

    I agree with .436.  Ince in no way is an example to anyone except
    maybe "Bullies".
    
    I also was looking at the interview with Gerry Francis and when he
    mentioned the look on some of the playes face - I said to my wife - He
    better not mention Ince, because he is no better in his conduct and if
    he was a football fan he would probably be doing the same thing.
    

Oh get a life. 

I would love nothing more than to see Man Utd fade into obscurity but to claim
that Paul Ince, whinger and moaner that he is, is no better than a group of
Hitler loving Stadium trashing life endangering nazis is just to close your eyes
to reality and march proudly into the realm of lunacy. 

Sheesh.

Mike

    
    > Prevention of terrorism act allows detention for up
    > to 7 days without having to explain why one is being detained, why not
    > use it !
    
    Along with the CJA an inspired piece of oppressive legislation. 
    Should the troubles flare up again I'm sure I can look forward
    to the possibility of a week banged up at the pleasure of HM 
    Government, without a reason, well being Irish might have something
    to do with it?
    
    Still, used against the likes of known and proven Combat 18 members
    and likeminded Neo Nancys it would'nt be a bad thing. Consistent
    eh? :^) 
    
    barry.
      

    
    Jack Charlton also seemed to be getting in the thick of it, pictured
    this morning in the paper with his hands around an English supporters
    throat. What gives him the right to do such things, the police should
    have attacked him instead of attacking all the innocent supporters that 
    they seemed to pick on.      

Curses. It was a wind up and I fell for it. 8-)

You're not really this insane are you? 8-)

Mike

	re .417

> unusuall for an Ireland England game both sides determined to play the ball on
> the ground ,this despite the windy conditions.

	I don't uderstand the use of "despite" here. Surely in windy conditions
	it becomes more or less essential to keep the ball low, to reduce the
	chance of the wind redirecting a pass towards an opponent.

	Tony

    
    
    
      Once again the low-life scummy "fan" has dragged English soccer back
     into the gutter, ruining it for the many thousands of decent fans who
     travel to support their team and enjoy a game of football.
    
      Why, after years of trouble and thousands of man hours spent
     identifying the yobs and ring leaders, is it still allowed to happen?
     There are powers currently available to the authorities to detain
     these people if they are suspected of being involved in this sort of
     activity. Use them, stuff their human rights!! Bang them up in the
     nick for a few days prior to any game, let them suffer the degredation
     and humiliation of slopping out and all that. They behave like animals
     so treat them as such. If the authorities can tell the Irish that
     these neds were travelling and to expect trouble, why not stop them
     from leaving the country and therefore minimise the risk?
    
      Danny.

    The following is just entered for the sake of ballance:
    
    On the two occasions I've seen Ireland play England at Wembley, (a few
    years ago now) there have been a small group, in the middle of the
    Ireland supporters, wearing balaclavas and combat jackets.
    
    Now, these people are about as representative of your average Ireland
    supporter as the prats who wrecked the game on Wednesday night are of
    the English, but it does show that Ireland also have (or at least had)
    a small following who go to the games to cause trouble or demonstrate a
    political point, not for any love of football.
    
    Dave.

    
    	I don't think anyone doubts that Dave.
    
    	They're all scum of the earth, imo. I think we're all in agreement 
    	on that one. Where are the headlines today about how long they've
    	been banged up for??? Where are their names and faces - public
    	humiliation and ridicule infront of family, friends, employers
    	and loved ones is a very strong deterent for these filth. Why not
    	use it??
    
    	And if anyone chatters on about civil liberties and infringement
    	of rights......gggrrrrrr...
    
    	Andy.

Guys

I have included the following from the Ireland Internet pages. It is 
written for our old mate Gary Spain. For those of you who have not been 
around since the start of this notesfile Gary is an avid Ireland fan 
travelling all over the world to watch them play.


Andy

		'Friendly International'


			Ireland 1 England 0
			    (Kelly 22)

					Match abandoned after 27 minutes.


David Kelly capped a superb performance with the only goal as Ireland 
'beat' 
England at Lansdowne Road.  Both sides were weakened through injury but the 
bookies expected England's greater strength in depth to tell.  FIFA 
rankings
and current form was totally disregarded and the bookies got it wrong.  
Ireland
controlled the game from the start.  Ireland threatened on both flanks but 
Kelly
and Quinn missed good chances.  Kelly looked sharp and dangerous but Quinn 
was
clumsy and ineffective.  On 22 minutes Sheridan threaded an inch perfect 
pass to 
Kelly and the Wolves striker beat Seamen from 12 yards.  Shortly afterwards 
the 
game was abandoned.

Alan Kelly had little to do in the Irish goal.  McGrath and Irwin impressed 
at
the back.  Kernaghan did okay and Phelan settled after a bad start.  
McGoldrick
managed to look dangerous on the wing.  Townsend and Sheridan comfortably 
won
the midfield battle while Staunton looked dangerous on the left.  For all
England's class strikers they are woefully exposed at the back and Kelly 
took
full advantage as Pallister and Adams were all at sea.  LeTissier looked 
the
best English player and he had a free kick that just cleared the crossbar.
Shearer was well shackled by McGrath.  Despite the withdrawals Ireland 
still
have a settled pattern.  This helped understrength sides to defeat Holland 
and
Germany last year.  Terry Venables knows he still has a lot of work to do 
and
it will surely be a very different English side that takes the field in the
European Championships. 

The above all became academic at 6.42pm on Wednesday evening.  A section of 
the
English supporters proceeded to rip up the seats in the West Stand and hurl 
them 
down on English and Irish fans below.  The violence that followed was 
certainly the worst ever experienced at a sporting event in this country.  
The West Stand was
evacuated and Irish fans on the South terrace poured onto the pitch to 
escape
a hail of missiles.  The gardai did move very quickly although there were 
very
few in the area occupied by the English fans.  The gardai fought with the 
English fans in a running battle while the Irish fans were told to leave 
the
stadium.  The evacuation went smoothly as a number of English fans also
seized the opportunity to make their escape from the trouble.  For the 
English
players and many many genuine fans it was a total nightmare.  For the right
wing extremists it was a great victory.  Long after the Irish fans had left 
the
ground there was another battle between the gardai and English fans.  Some 
of the
scenes of gardai attacking fans on the ground are enough to make a civil 
liberties
campaigner wince but few will have any sympathy for the hooligans.

The football was forgotten afterwards as news coverage concentrated on the 
violence.
BBC, ITN and Sky all laid the blame firmly on the minority of English fans. 
 The
F.A.I. must carry some of the blame for the poor segregation and 
insufficient
gardai in the English section.  The F.A.I. will be hit with a heavy fine 
and
may face ground closure however that would be very severe.  England face 
the
prospect of a few years in the International wilderness.  Most of the 
football
pundits reckon that the European Championships will be moved elsewhere.  
Jimmy
Hill reckoned they should stay in England as the English police are now 
expert at 
dealing with trouble.  It would be a sad day for English football if they 
were
moved.  Almost everyone here follows English football however the prospect 
of
meeting England again is no longer attractive.  Next year's friendly is 
certain
to be cancelled and a decision will have to be made on the European 
Championships.
Frankly I'd rather go anywhere else than England for the finals.  Other
countries have had their problems with hooliganism but it is not on the 
organised
scale that is seen for England games.  The situation at club level has 
improved
considerably but the national side still attracts these extremists.  Irish,
Dutch, Mexicans, Belgians and even a few Moroccans partied the night away 
in
Orlando last summer.  This cannot happen with England because of this tiny
minority.  

Jack Charlton was furious afterwards.  He felt cheated.  He had played for
England with distinction.  He was now managing a team that couldn't play 
against 
the country of his birth because of these thugs.  The fans were cheated.  
We
were 1-0 up on England and playing them off the park.  Ireland were playing 
very
well.  England may no longer be a force in world football but there is 
nobody
we'd rather beat.  We can still claim a 1-0 win but this is now academic.
Those of us who came to see a game of football had to endure an orgy of 
violence.
Hopefully this can be forgotten and our national football team can 
concentrate
on qualifying for the European Championships wherever they'll be held.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----

Gary Spain

Oracle Corporation.                                 email: 
[email protected]
European Porting Centre,
Maretimo Court, Temple Road,
Blackrock, Co. Dublin,
Republic of Ireland.
									
	
									
	
	       
									
	
									
	
									
									
	
									
	
									   
  
     
									
	
									
	
								   
							     


Guys

Here is another report from an Irish contributer to the Arsenal Internet 
pages. It details moe of the Irish reaction and also the afternath.

P.S I will try and format it a bit better.  8-)

Andy
Date:        16/02/95 20:24:00
From:        Westrock Software
Subject:     Arsenal: Ireland update
To:          [email protected]@umc@WRLMTS@WRL


Well, obviously todays papers are full of last nights scenes 
with our evening paper devoting 27 pages to it. It is mostly 
players, ex-players and officials comments. They are all agreed 
that they can't believe that English fans were put in the upper 
tier. John Giles said " even the most lowly of English football 
teams wouldn't put away fans in the upper tier "  Ireland have 
always put visiting supporters in the upper tier including when 
England played here a few years ago.   A lot of blame is being 
put on the police, one journalist said that no police went near 
the English until 15 minutes after the first missile was 
thrown. Other Irish fans said that wherever they go whether 
Latvia or Orlando they are surrounded by police. Joe Kinnear 
who was in the studio for the Irish TV said that Wimbledon 
would have 200 stewards around an away support like that.
                    There are reports that tickets for the 
England section were being sold by English touts in Dublin city 
centre on Wednesday. Numerous hooligans have appeared in court 
today with fines and some being remanded until Monday.  There 
are a lot of pictures of the debri in Lansdowne Road. The 
little boy who was shown on TV  is on the front page and he has 
been tracked down and is now the most famous 8 year old in 
Ireland. Jack Charlton's son Peter was attacked on the ferry 
home. Another headline says " All FAI should resign now" One 
English fan is seriously injured.   
                    The National Front are being blamed for it 
all. Some cards were found in the West stand after the game 
with     " England invasion of Dublin 1995, Ulster is British, 
No surrender, God save the Queen "  There were flags with nazi 
signs on them. One claim was that it was started by a signal 
when one person put up an umbrella. The paper also had a copy 
of a warning from English police to Irosh police with flight 
numbers, times and dates of when each group of hooligans were 
arriving. There was a Tottenham group amongst them but 
thankfully there was no Arsenal.
                    Because I went to the game I didn't see the 
evening paper from yesterday until today. There was a lot of 
news about fights in the city centre, not between the Irish and 
Englsih but between rival English groups. They got off the boat 
early and spent the day in the pub. One bouncer in a nightclub 
was stabbed by two English fans. I also heard on the radio last 
night that an English fan was stabbed but I've heard nothing 
more about it.
 
On a lighter note Irish bookies are paying out on correct 
score, first scorer and match result. They are also giving 
refunds on all other bets.
                                                 Darragh,
                                                     Dublin
                         Westrock Software

                        ([email protected])



re -3

The TODAY has names & pictures of 4 of those responsible on the front page
plus the moron who made it onto the ITN news last night.  Hopefully, the press
will have a concerted campaign to 'out' these b*****ds and the organisations
and companies that back them.

    
    	So Jimmy Hill thinks the European Champonships should stay in
    England because English police are used to the problem.
    
    	Well I think any problem is not going to come from English
    "supporters" who are fairly well known to the polis - it will come
    from Dutch, German, Norwegian and Irish (etc) visitors who will all
    want revenge for what has happened in their own countries. England
    could be a war zone next year.
    
    Malc.
    

Guys
This is the last one from the internet I promise.

Quite a graphic account

Andy

From: John.Stokes@CCCMVS
Subject: Trouble

Yesterday evening was one of the most horriffic experiences of my life. As 
if
it wasn't bad enough a riot breaking out at an Irish international, it was
just my luck that I happened to be seated less than six feet from the 
English
'supporters'. This is how I saw the situation develop.
I arrived at Lansdowne Rd 45 minutes before kick off with my father and a
friend. Outside the atmosphere was already electric but good natured. 
Security
was not very evident with in my opinion less Gardai visible than for the 
same
fixture in 1990. Despite earlier warnings in the newspapers,there were no 
body
searches going into the ground and people who were visibly intoxicated were
allowed into the ground. Our tickets were stamped with 'visiting 
association',
something which concerned me when they arrived last week, however the FAI
assured me that although they had been returned from the FA there would be
strict security and segregation in force. Foolishly I took them at their 
word.
Walking in under the West Stand you could feel the hair stand up on the 
back
of your neck as the singing of the English supporters reverberated around 
the
stand. We knew now that this was different to any match we'd been at 
before.
As we approached our seats I looked up to see Block A,B and C occupied by
English in the upper tier and row A in the lower tier. Our seats were in 
Block
B, Row 9, seats 40-42. The start of Block B was seat 38 so we were no more
than a few feet from the English and directly underneath the English in the
stand above. There was not one Garda in the stand, and absolutely no
segregation. At this stage we were confronted by about eight or ten
'skinheads' singing "You're shit and you know you are" to the air of Pet 
Shop
Boys 'Go West'. Some of them were giving the Nazi salute and one had a
Swastika armband. As we passed they spat at us trying to provoke some sort 
of
reaction....we just kept walking. Even more abuse was hurled at us as we
walked up through small pockets of them.
When the teams came onto the pitch it really got tense, there was a lot of
racist chanting with references to the IRA etc. Anybody can swear or use 
bad
language but what was being used yesterday was foul by anybody's standards.
As the English National anthem was played a group of about fifty in the
adjoining block stood giving the Nazi Salute again. There was a lot of 
booing
and heckling from the rest of the ground but this wasn't surprising.
When the Irish national anthem was played the 'supporters' in the top deck
started spitting down on us and the verbal abuse from only feet away from 
us
was very intimidating. At this stage I turned to my father and said I'd 
stick
this for ten minutes and if it didn't improve I was going to leave.
Once the game did start things calmed down as the majority were genuinely
interested in the game. The atmosphere was electric and it looked for a 
while
as if the worst was over.
Ireland went ahead after 25 minutes through David Kelly. This was the 
signal
for the trouble. As we celebrated in the stand were were bombarded with 
coins
from the side and above. I myself was hit in the back of the neck. At this
stage I (or anybody else in the Block) was not watching the match, more
concerned about our own safety. Then we heard a booing coming from around
the stadium and all the stewards began to point to the top tier of the 
stand.
Obviously something was happening. Now we were bombarded with seats and 
wooden
planks ripped up from above us. Suddenly to our left there was a rush of
thugs (I won't call them supporters) kicking and puching anyone in their 
way.
I signalled to my father to move (in slightly more forceful tones) as the
crowd started to pile in on top of us. People all around were getting 
kicked
and punched indiscriminatly. I even saw one guy with a baseball bat.
Fortunately those English directly beside us were as anxious to get out of 
the
trouble as we were. As the pile of bodies crushed towards the exits at a
snails pace I feard somebody would be killed in the crush or by the huge
missiles raining down on us from above. At this stage I realised we were
going nowhere fast so tried to clamber down through the seats towards the
pitch rather than towards the aisle. I vaulted a wall not knowing there 
were
stairs on the other side and fell about eight feet. A bit winded I got up,
signalled to my father and friend to follow and then got down to the safety 
of
the pitch. By now the police were in among the trouble makers and to be 
fair
they curtailed them well. For five minutes there had been panic up in the
stand though the two blocks emptied out quickly without anyone being 
injured.
It is very fortunate that there were no security fences blocking access to 
the
pitch as there could well have been a repeat of Hillsborough. At this stage
I'd decided I'd seen enough despite PA announcements that the match would
restart when the pitch was cleared. As we headed towards the North Terrace 
we
noticed more trouble there with a small crowd of English who were 
bombarding
those trying to escape with bottles and bricks. This incident seems to have
escaped most of the media attention. Relieved and somewhat shocked we made 
our
way back to the car. We laughed and joked about it but I think this was the
initial reaction to the shock. I have to say it was the most frightening
experience I have ever had.

Some observations:

The security both outside and inside the ground was inadequate. We saw 
English
'fans' vaulting the styles then running inside and disappearing into the
crowd. Whether they had tickets or not I don't know. There was no police
presence in the West Stand until five minutes after the trouble errupted, 
and
even then they were not equipped to deal with the type of trouble.

The trouble was caused (in the lower stand at least) by the minority. They
were not football supporters, many wore swastikas and used the Nazi Salute 
and
probably didn't even know they were at a match. 'Business Cards' were left
all over the stand with 'Cheltenham Volunteer Force-British invasion of
Ireland, February 1995' on them. Though a lot of English supporters were
involved in racist taunts and the pre match chanting, most were as anxious 
to
avoid the trouble once the thugs went into action. A hard core of about 100
to 150 were involved in fighting in the lower stand, the rest were genuine
supporters who just wanted to get out.

The FAI were criminally neglegent in re-selling tickets returned from the 
FA
to Irish supporters, especially in putting them in seats directly below the
English. FAI Chief Executive Sean Connolly had the cheek to deny the resale
of tickets on radio this morning, but I (and a couple of thousand others)
have stubs with 'visiting assocaition' stamped on them to prove it.

The Gardai although they dealt with the problem well when it did start were
poorly prepared. Supposedly they had information from English police 
telling
them that over 50 known soccer hooligans and NF members were travelling to
Dublin yet there was no police presence or segregation of supporters in the
West Stand and riot police did not arrive on the scene until ten to fifteen
minutes after trouble erupted.

It must be stated that although a couple of hundred ran wild last night 
there
were far more who were there to enjoy what was turning into an excellent
game. Those that caused the trouble have nothing to do with football and 
it's
unfair to brand all English supporters as hooligans. While it seems likely
that UEFA will take some action against the FA and probably the FAI aswell 
I hope they do not over react. Banning English fans from travelling or 
taking the 96 Euro Championships elsewhere would merely be giving in to 
these thugs. I felt sorry last night for genuine supporters and also the 
English players who clearly are helpless to prevent this. As the ref 
signalled a halt to the game Tony Adams gestured to David Seaman as if to 
say 'Here we go again'. There's a photo in most papers today of Darren 
Anderton walking off clearly distressed by the whole situation. These 
players and football in general are the real victims in this situation.

The blame must lie with the thugs, national front, neo-nazis, facists or
whatever you want to call them. This is not a football problem it is a 
social one. Without these there would be no need for segregation, riot 
police or the violence we witnessed last night, however the FAI and  Garda 
authorites (not the Gardai on the ground at the game who acted 
magnificently) must take some of the blame for allowing the siuation to 
develop as it did. Call it niavity or negligence, whatever you want, it 
should never have happened and I hope I never experience it first hand 
again.


re .447

I, as an Irishman, take grave exception to the inference that there
is a similar element of malice in the travelling band of Irish football
supporters as existed in the English band last Wednesday evening.

Could you please elaborate a little on exactly what trouble any Irish 
supporters have *ever* gotten into while supporting their team abroad?
You cannot be allowed to make innuendos as the the bad behaviour of our
fans without including specific references to bad behaviour.  I think 
it could be just a case of trying to drag everyone else down when you
yourself are in the gutter :-(.

                       James.

The Irish have never (to my knowledge) had that type of element within their
travelling support, but that's not to say it could happen. If it did then as the
case with england it has nothing to do with football.

My biggest fear is with our genuine supporters which count for 100%. I'm sure
the police will be able to handle the game situation and game day but what about
outside these times. The type of people we was the other night will be on their
own turf, have time to plan etc.

Our T.V. had somebody from england on their show last night and he expressed the
same opinion.

What opinions do other have??

Mick

    Not really sure I should enter this, but thought some might find it
    interesting. I believe it to be true as I've just heard it from a good 
    mate who was at the game and has 'been about a bit'.
    
    If the mods think its inappropriate, I'll be happy to delete it.
    
    Anyway, allegedly, the trouble was caused by a bunch of Leeds
    skinheads. My mate reckons its the worst situation he's ever been in
    (and coming from him, I'm impressed) and that that's the last time
    he'll be going to an England match. Anyone with a cockney accent was
    getting a right hammering.
    
    One of the lads he went with is one of the six still in gaol in Dublin. 
    He was arrested for fighting with one of said Leeds nutters, after being
    attacked inside the ground - allegedly. 
    
    Anyway, that's what I've heard.
    
    Dave.

>I, as an Irishman, take grave exception to the inference that there
>is a similar element of malice in the travelling band of Irish football
>supporters as existed in the English band last Wednesday evening.
    
    I'm not infering anything. I'm just stating facts and offering my
    opinion.
    
    Dave.

Fortunately I didn't see the game, but I caught some of the action on the
terraces on the News over the last couple of days.

re .416

>    These people do not want peace in Ireland, they do not want the IRA
>    disbanded, they want to keep the IRA in existence as an organisation
>    they can vent their own little 'War' against.

How about sticking these a**holes in a field at one and, and the IRA in the
other, and let them at each other. could be interesting, and I bet that for the
first time in history, the whole of Britain would be for the IRA.

(Notice no smiley things)


>    These sick fascists are
>    known to our police and authorities - they should not be allowed
>    to travel outside of England, they should not be allowed to attend
>    football matches.

These sick fascists should not be allowed to walk the streets, let alone go to
football matches.

Apart from the fact that it was known that certain hooligans were known to be
travelling to Dublin "for the game" there was one thing that was mentioned on
the news last night that must surely force the police into action. Apparently, a
large proportion of the thugs got in by buying off of touts.

I thought touting was illegal. It's about time that the police put a stop to
this activity once and for all. I have been to many matches and concerts and
touts are going about their business right next to the police, and they do
nothing to stop them.

I realise that there are far more serious problems out there than touting, but
when tickets are sold indiscrinantly purely for financial gain, then they are
putting lives at risk.

They should have their tickets confiscated, and be detained for the duration of
the event. Touting would soon die out.

Al

Touting is not illegal in Ireland. They are at all big game both in soccer,
Rugby and our national games.

I agree, touting should be stop here as well.

> This is not a football problem it is a 
>social one. 

Although I do not normally note in here, as you rightly point out 
this is not necessarily a subject for football fans alone. 


The one thing though that riles me immensely about the quoted statement 
as on tv and elsewhere is the innocence it projects on footballs part. 

It is not *JUST* a football problem and yes it is a social 
problem also. 

It does however sit a little with the world of football to clean it's
act up also.   

So long as aggressive thugs (can you guess who I mean?)with no self control 
(or no respect for others however much he despises them) will be tolerated 
behaving in such an brutal way, so long as they can carry on in the game after a 
slapped wrist, so long as they are maintained as heros role models 
and thus their behaviour effectively condoned football does have 
a responsibility for tolerating and thus encouraging violence and
destruction as  acceptable and the norm. 

Jo. 
not_major_footie_fan_but_part_of_society. 

    re -1
    
    Jo,
    
    Did you write the piece in the Daily Mail yesterday where Monsieur C
    got the blame for the trouble in Dublin, by any chance?
    
    Stuart

    Stuart,
    
    Shame on you for doubting the convictions of our Jo!
    And on her birthday too!
    
    Ian.
    :-)

    This unfortunate piece of news made the headlines here in Australia too
    (bad news travels fast *and* far).
    
    They interviewed one of the English fans arriving back in England and
    he said that he bought his ticket from the Irish Police! I'd be very
    surprised if that happened but the interviewer didn't question him
    further about it. Did any of you hear anything about this?
    
    Tony.

    Big Jack and El Tel have re-stated their determination to play the Rep
    of Irl v England match to a finish. May 20 was the date
    mentioned....watch this space....
    
    Ray....

    Also, the FA have said they'll be guided by El Tel, so if the Irish Fa
    are agreeable, looks likes its on.
    
    Dave.

    Isn't May 20 FA Cup Final (sponsored by Littlewoods Pools) day ?

    
    Andy Cole has been added to the England squad for the friendly against
    Denmark next wed. In one of his more Graham Taylor type decisions TV
    has dropped Matt Le Tiss and brought back Barry Venison.....what can
    you say.
    
    As if by magic, an injury appeared, Alan Shearer has pulled out, well
    its so close for Blackurn, you cant really blame them. Lose Shearer and
    they lose the title.
    
    Still atleast we should see Sir Teddy, Nicky and Dazza grace the Wembley 
    turf just to get the feel of it before May 20th.

    RE -1 
    
    <    Andy Cole has been added to the England squad for the friendly against
    Denmark????? next wed   >
    
    
    	I thought England were playing Uraguay next week, or are sky
    showing a different game???
    
    Mr Ped
    

    
    RE-1
    
    yeah, thats what I meant.
    
    dave...

    
    Uraguay held a pretty mediocre looking England to a 0:0 drwa last night
    at Wembley. Darren Anderton had a good game & was made MotM. LeSaux was
    swapped for Mcmanaman at hlf time (because of his yellow card?), Barbmy
    came on early in the 2nd half for Beardsley & Andy Cole finally got his
    full England cap, coming on for the last 20 minutes.
    	I hardly noticed Platt & Barnes was pretty quite (as usual). The
    only excitement was generated by a combination of Anderton, Sherringham
    & Beardsley in the 1st half plus Cole & Barmby in the 2nd. Cole game
    closest to scoring with a header which came back off the underside of
    the crossbar.
    	Certainly nothing to write home about. I think Cole should start a
    game (with Shearer for example). Anderton looks like being a regular.
    The midfield looked a little weak without Ince. Still, its in defence
    where the biggest problems are, even though they coped ok last night
    (Uraguay are on a tight schedule with a game againt Hungary? on Friday
    having played the USA on the weekend so maybe they weren't so fresh).
    
    JBG

>>>>Certainly nothing to write home about.

errr.....I do believe you just did, Jon.



p.s. I thought the match was complete b******s.  Absolute rubbish.  If they 
can't beat Uruguay at Wembley, there's not much hope for the EC - and yes, I do 
want to see them do well in the EC, particularly now Wales are out of it, 
beyond  all question (Bulgaria 3 - 1 Wales)

    
    England were awfull last night, the quicker Venables drops this Xmas tree 
    formation the better. Even when Shearer plays we hardly create any chances
    using this formation, its a waste of time. 
    
    Dave...
    
     
    
    

    
    Crap game as I thought it would be with the team Venables selected,don't
    know what he was trying to learn if anything from last nights performance.
    Why not play players like Cole,Le-Tissier,Rednapp,MacManaman and give them
    a full game to gain some International experiance,rather than the ones
    he did who everybody knows what they can or should I sat can't do!
    
    
    Aron...                                                    
    
    

    
    Well, it was a very tired looking performance from England and
    jet-lagged one from Uruguay. Sheringham must be one of the most
    over-rated strikers in the game. How the blazes can ALL the
    commentators PLUS
    Gary Linekar, Steve Coppell, Glenn Hoddle and Alan Ball reckon he had a
    good game. He slipped over the ball (ah poor chap the ball didn't come
    quite right) more times than not. He gave away possesion more often
    than not. A striker scores goals..full stop..Cole was only on the pitch
    and he sniffed out 2 chances within a few minutes.
    
    	Its all very easy to see how Sherringham gets his name on the score
    sheet at Tottenham...thanks to siomebody else how himself managed to
    get the only 2 goals for his country in Georgia.....
    
    Me cynical...noooooooo.....El Tel is falling into exactly the same
    routine as Taylor, Robson etc.....complacency. Give these guys a good
    kick up the backside..prima donnas...The game was only 2 minuets old
    when Le Saux met with a strong challenge..nothing malicious..Uruguayan
    went to apologise..Le Saux snubbed him...And his BIG MOUTH got him
    booked..LE Saux ..don't like him, over-rated and a cheat. Pallister was
    guilty of the same later in the game.
    
    Man of the Match...The head Gatekeeper for looking up Wembley after
    that pile of dross.
    
    Regards,
    
    Dezzz.
    
    

    
    Dezzz
    
    Maybe you can explain how Sheringham won the premiership golden boot two 
    seasons ago, when Klinsmann didnt play for Spurs...??
    
    I could'nt care less if he doesnt play for England now, he still plays
    well everyweek for Tottenham, you should know, he destroyed your team
    at Anfield 3 weeks ago.
    
    If England persist with this formation it wont be long before all the
    flack is aimed at Shearer, whoever is left up front on his own in this
    system is going to struggle, when Shearer played against Rumania, we
    hardly created anything.
    
    Sheringham was the wrong choice to play up front on his own, he doesnt
    have the pace, but his control is far better than Cole's. Cole should
    be in the team, but alonside Shearer.
    
    Dave...
                                                     
    
    
    Dave...
    
    

    Got the game taped but after having read the last few notes maybe
    I'll just fast-forward to see what sort of histrionics Mr Dowie 
    performs upon scoring his latest goal. 
    
    Andy

    Chaps,
    
    The substitutions puzzled me last night. To bring off Beardsley, then
    put on Cole and to match that with taking of Sheringham just after
    putting on Barmby looked a little strange. 
    
    Giving Anderton MOM summed up how bad things were. He chased a lot and
    out-ran players towards the corner flag but couldn't put in a decent
    cross and his answer to 'how do you know you're close enough to shoot?'
    seems to be 'when I've got the ball'
    
    I didn't even realise Barnes was on the pitch until he got the ball
    after 29 minutes and even Platt struggled.
    
    Still, you can't play well every game and this was not a bad one to
    choose as the one to miss. 
    
    Peter

THE INQUIRY report into the Lansdowne Road soccer riot in Dublin yesterday 
criticised Irish police for their failure to act sufficiently on intelligence 
from England.

 The friendly football international between England and Ireland was abandoned 
 in February when England fans threw seats and wood from the West Stand after 
 Ireland took a one-nil lead. Twenty people were injured and 40 arrested.
 The inquiry, ordered by the Irish government and carried out by Mr Thomas 
 Finlay, the former Chief Justice in the Republic, blamed English fans for 
 orchestrating the "planned" violence but concluded that "with hindsight" the 
 authorities could have taken measures to contain it.
 His 99-page report found that "the actual serious violence experienced at the 
 match was caused solely by English fans".

 Mr Finlay said at least two hooligans were seen using mobile telephones "and 
 by hand-signalling, orchestrating the violence".
 Examination of the scene afterwards found a significant amount of literature 
 and brochures associated with racist and extreme right-wing groups.

Violence was 'targeted, planned and intended'



 The report added that the violence was "targeted, planned and intended".
 However, the report found that Irish police rejected an offer of the 
 assistance of an intelligence co-ordinator from the English police and of a 
 number of English policemen to act as observers. Such assistance would have 
 helped to reduce the violence, it added.
 Mr Finlay discovered that such an offer had been made by the head of the 
 National Criminal Intelligence Service in Britain, Det Chief Insp Bryan Drew.

 While praising some of the organisation of the match, Mr Finlay said warnings
 received by Irish police from the National Criminal Intelligence Service in
 Britain were "not sufficiently conveyed" to the Football Association of
 Ireland (FAI).

 Mr Finlay said it seemed likely that between 50 and 80 English hooligans
 initiated the violence but more than 200 took part.

 The report said "inadequate" segregation between the English and Irish fans
 had been a contributory factor. Police intended to be used as a reserve in
 the stadium and the public order units were "insufficient in their
 availability and the speed with which they could be brought into action".


Insufficient meetings between FAI stewards, security men and police

 The report also found that there were insufficient meetings between FAI
 stewards, security men and police. However parts of the police operation
 were judged successful. Serious overcrowding and threat of forged tickets
 had been avoided.

 The judge made several recommendations for "top priority" matches. All such
 matches should be seater only, and any offers of police experts from visiting
 countries should be accepted.
 Mrs Nora Owen, the Irish justice minister, welcomed the recommendations "as
 a blueprint for planning and holding of such matches".

 Mr Sean Connolly, the FAI Secretary, said that many of the findings echoed
 the results of their own inquiries.

    
    Anyone catch the 909 phone in on radio 5 Saturday ?.
    Who's the fella covering David Mellor ?  Doesn't hide his true colours
    does he ?
    
     Some bloke says Matt Le Tiss is so layed back he thinks Valium is a
    stimulant !.
    
    When asked what he thought about football at Celtic Park he said -
    'yes' that would be a good idea'...
    
    Cracked me up .,
    
    Gary 

    
    The man in question is Dominic Diamond (A well known hun lover).
    
    

    
    The program got even better on Monday night..

    Dominic claimed that Rangers were the "Spawn of Satan".

    The BBC.... unbiased broadcasting at it's best !!

    Martin.....SQFCSC

    
    
    Where does he normally broadcast when he's not doing 909 ?.
    
    

    
    He usually does Gamesmaster on Channel 4.
    
    Choppers
    
    
    BTW His team in the Daily Telegraph are called The Popes XI

Amusing bloke, IMO.  Not scared of saying whatever he wants to.

    
    	I saw the Gamesmaster programme the day that he had Andy Cole on
    (not that I watch it normally of course oh no not me would I ever) and
    he told the viewers that he offered Wor Andy a bung to sign for Celtic.
    
    	Also, in Radio Times' My Kind of Day column he freely admitted
    lying awake at night worrying about Celtic. Believe me Dominick, you're
    not the only one.
    
    Malc.
    

DD has a column in FHM Magazine about his Sunday League team.  They seem
to be on a par with Celtic - they haven't won anything either ;-)

    
    
    He gets my vote to replace  David Mellor ..   
    
    
    

As minister for heritage?

But does he wear his Celtic shirt in bed?

We should be told.

    -1
    
     Beat me. 2 it

>>>>Beat me. 2 it

or *with* it?

    Still on the subject of Scotland's finest, was that really a Celtic
    crest on the front of the drum kit when Simple Minds played Top of
    The Pops recently? I had heard that Kerr & Co are fans.
    
    barry. 

	Heard the end of the commentary on BBC WS before coming to work
	this morning:

		England 2	Japan 1

	Apparently Mr. Venables is not a happy man.

	Tony

     
    I heard England got a penalty at the last minute ....
    
    
    
    

England were very poor, but I didn't think Collymore was as crap as everyone is
making out. At least he attacked the goal, and showed some enthusiasm. Picking
Stuart Pearce is hardly a great leap forward for the England team. Perhaps he
ought to bring back Terry Butcher while he's at it. 8-)

Brazil, however, looked a class apart. Hopefully when we play them, it will
force us to raise our game.

Mike

    >Brazil, however, looked a class apart. Hopefully when we play them, it
    >will force us to raise our game.
    
    or youse'll get hammered!
    
    Choppers

    Didn't Scotland lose to Japan recently....?
    
    Stuart

    Held out manfully for a 0-0 draw if memory serves, Stuart...
    
    Dom

    
    of course, it was on a beautiful, rainsoaked pitch we played, where we
    were able to play to our silkiest best.
    
    Choppers

    
    re .498
    
    Japan played with 10 men for the last 5 minutes against the might
    of Scotlands reserve team. -) -)
    
    Danny.

    I saw the highlights from Brazil v Japan last night. Brazil were out of
    this world, admittedly against weaker opposition, but their football
    was a thing of beauty to look at....
    
    El Tel's boys could be in trouble on Sunday....
    
    Ray....

    
    It was amazing stuff last night...their first time control was always
    something that Brazilians had. Amazingly when Japan were attacking and
    Brazil were defending, commentator was saying 'and here are the
    Brazilians at sixes and sevens'...whilst a few weeks ago AC milan were
    doing this against Paris St Germain and it was controlled defending...
    
    Yes, I think England could well be in for a rather bad stuffing at the
    weekend.
    
    Dezzz.

    
    <<Yes, I think England could well be in for a rather bad stuffing at the
      weekend.>>
    
      Let's hope so Dezz !
    
     8*)
    
    

    Well, amidst all this breathtaking chit-chat about season-ticket
    increases and managerial changes, has no one got anything to say about
    the game last night (England-Sweden in case there are any doubts)?
    
    I thought it was one of the most exciting international matches I've
    seen in recent years...far more enthralling than anything in the last
    World Cup. It all worked out OK in the end (except for our Irish and
    Scottish noters!), but Terry Venables must get the prize for "Naive Team
    Selection of the Year" - I mean, a midfield of Anderton, Barnes, Beardsley 
    and Platt takes some believing ;-) Even though the emphasis is on
    experiment at the moment, I doubt if we'll see another England team
    without Ince and/or Batty (probably England's best player against
    Japan).
    
    Sherringham and Barton are definitely worth a repeat run; Anderton has
    now joined Platt, Shearer, Ince and one or two others as certainties.
    However, Flowers and Barnes (and perhaps Beardsley) have done their
    chances no good at all. Cooper shouldn't be judged too harshly as the
    midfield cover was non-existent; mind you, it was the first time I've
    seen him play and I don't think he looks international class.
    
    Great game - breakneck speed and lovely one-touch football from both
    sides.
    
    Dom         

    Exactly what I though, Mal - although I'm often left guessing at the
    names of players, thanks to the pronunciation of the Italian
    commentators. When England used to pick Waddle, Hoddle and Hodge in the
    same team, it was sheer commedy listening to them ;-)
    
    To answer your question, I believe he plays for Forest.
    
    Dom

    
    Steve Cooper, Forest central defender. Didn't have too bad a game.
    Flowers made some costly errors and the mid field was ineffectual for
    long periods. Gazza mad a difference when he came on (Barnes had put on
    his usual England performance) and it was his pin point cross to Platt
    to head home from a free kick which brought England their consolation
    goal (to make it 3:2 to Sweden) in the 88th minute. Gerry Francis then
    made the incredible prediction "its going to be an interesting last
    minute" which it was. Almost from the restart England took possetion
    and a long ball was played up to Platt. He flicked it on the Shearer
    who headed back to set up Anderton for a rocket of a volley in full
    flight which smashed off the inside of BOTH goalposts before going in.
    	England deserved the draw but their defence was abysmal, giving
    away 2 early goals against the run of play. The first came when Flowers
    blocked a close range effort & the ball came back out to the edge of
    the box where midfielder Mild chipped it back into the danger area
    infront of Flowers. Before Flowers reacted, the guy who hit the
    original shot lined up to volley it home only he missed and Flowers was
    left to watch the ball trickle home. Sweden's 2nd was another mistake
    when Flowers failed to hold on to a long range effort along the ground
    and Mild was again on hand for the tap in.
    	Right at the end of the half Sherringham finally broke his England
    duck with a lovely volley from an attempted clearance in front of the
    Swedish goal. England went in 2:1 down but the signs were there for a
    good recovery in the 2nd half. Such hopes were however dashed when
    Kennett Anderson was allowed through to chip Flowers from 25 yards
    right at the start of the 2nd half. England kept up their attack but
    looked to be out of it until the miraculous recovery in the final
    minutes.
    	Palister looked to be still carrying his injury and I wasn't
    impressed with Le Saux's defending or Crossing. I forgot Platt was
    playing 'til he scored. Anderton continues to shine in an England shirt
    and is quickly becoming a fixture of the team.
    
    JBG

    > I'd never seen Barton either...

    	It's funny you should say that. If he hadn't been the subject of a
    big transfer recently I wouldn't have known who he was either. I
    thought England were very lucky last night (needless to say) and need
    to get their defence sorted out PDQ.

    Malc.

    PS On the other hand, as a Scottish type person I laughed my ruddy head
    off.

Dom,

What channel did you see that on? Are either of the last games on?

(SKY-less) grahame

It's Colin Cooper, not Steve. 

And you call yourself a Forest supporter. 8-))

Mike

Graeme,

looks like your out of luck as the Unbro Cup is live exclusively on SKY.

As you can't get BBC in Zurich you can't even watch the highlights.  Such is
the price to pay for the glamourous jet-setting life you must lead. ;-))

    Grahame,
    
    TeleMonteCarlo have got exclusive rights to the tournament in Italy;
    howver, they showed the game at 11pm last night so that they could
    cover the athletics live from Rome. They're showing the last two
    matches live on Saturday/Sunday.
    
    Well Mal, I suppose they were lucky in as far as they only equalised in
    the last minute. But I think they more than deserved it. Both Italian
    commentators thought justice had been done (Jose Altafini described
    England as "highly vulnerable" at the back, but "devestating" going
    forward).
    
    Talking of "Scottish-type people", I got a big laugh from Giancarlo
    Galavotti (renowned England hater) writing in the "Gazzetta dello
    Sport". He thought Sherringham's goal was offside and described the
    referee, Les Mottram, as a "homer". Now, am I dreaming or is Mr. Mottram 
    from the other side of Hadrian's Wall? ;-)
    
    Seriously speaking, I don't think England would even accept a Scottish
    referee in an official competition - not that the situation is likely
    to arise.
    
    Dom
                                               

Living in Scotland gives me a far too regular look at Mr Mottram's
handling of games.  Impressed is not a word I would use.

    John,
    
    "Living in Scotland", can you give me a brief weather forecast for the
    next few days ?  I'm going to Islay to sample the local beverages for a
    while and I'm wondering if it's worth packing the factor 4 suncream.
    
    Dave

Dave,

I think the weather will be standardly Scottish - cold, windy, wet with
an odd sunny spell!


Actually, I don't think its going to be much more than showers but the
other 2 are correct.

John

    Thanks John - windburn rather than sunburn eh ?  Plenty of midges
    around at the minute ?

    
    Dave
    
    	I don't know why you want John to give you a weather forecast
    (apart from his uncanny resemblance to Suzanne Charlton. Or is it Bobby
    Charlton ?), he only buys the Guardian for the cartoons and he has to
    get me to help him with the big words. Also with his size he is the
    last person to know that it is raining ...
    
    	The weather will be glorious this weekend as I am playing golf. No
    other proof is required.
    
    Malc.
    

I think Jack's probably a closer resemblance. Plus my brother & brother-in-law
are both qualified meteorologisrts (spelling??) which is weather forecasting
to those idiots with Viking names (Malc) who know all the celeb weather
people (well Heather the Weather and Rob McElwee).

But to reply to Dave about the midges - is too cold & windy for them at the
moment so you can leave the Jungle formula at home as well.

John$who_will_give_Malc_a_good_beating_at_golf_on_Monday

    
    Mike,
    
    	I thought he was Mini at first... 8-)
    
    Grahame,
    
    	......I videoed last nights game and will do the same on Sunday
    (England v Brazil). A few mates in Ascom will be borrowing the vids
    first but if you're interested you can have them in a week or so.
    
    JBG
    
    Ps. Get SKY. 8-)

>As you can't get BBC in Zurich you can't even watch the highlights.  Such is
>the price to pay for the glamourous jet-setting life you must lead. ;-))

Thanks, John, it's true, but you don't have too look so smug (I can tell!) 
while you tell me.

And as for Sky, I haven't even got a set at the moment! Girlfriend has, but 
I'd need a lot more than promises of England-Sweden football matches 
to convince her to get Sky. (I suppose I could just fly back to England to 
watch it . . .)!

grahame

    
    	Brazil won the Umbro Cup yesterday with 3 goals in the second half
    to defeat England at Wembley. England had started well and had Brazil
    under pressure for most of the first half, inspite of Brazil going
    close early on when a shot from Renaldo came back of the inside of the
    post. England looked good attacking with Anderton, Platt & Sherringham
    doing well. Shearer seems to have temporary lost him England form but
    still looks threatening. England scored late in the first half after a
    Pearce (Brian? 8-) free kick was only header clear as far as Le Saux
    just outside the box. He chested it down and half volleyed it back into
    the opposite top corner. A great goal and fitting for the occaision.
    	Brazil began to look rattled as England put on more pressure (I
    think the corner count was 7:0 to England in the first half). Batty got
    himself stupidly booked just at the end of the half.
    	England came out for the second half a reformed team. No more
    pressurising the Brazilians into mistakes, they sat back and let Brazil
    come at them. Brazil's first goal came from a free kick just outside
    the box after Batty had put in one of his trademark rash challenges
    from behind. The ball was curled just over the wall and Flower's didn't
    get near it (although it wasn't right in the corner). Their second came
    when Renaldo was put through on the edge of the box & turned Scales (?)
    before slotting the ball between Flower's legs. Their third came with
    England pressing for an equaliser. Stuart Pearce tried to cut out a
    long ball only to flick it over the last defender, Colin Cooper, and
    into the path of Eduardowho made light work of beating Flowers.
    	Terry finally decided to change things with 10 minutes to go, bring
    on Gazza & Colleymore for Batty & Sherringham. Both made an impact with
    Colleymore making a couple of good breaks - once his final cross was
    too high for Shearer to head home & the second he was clean through but
    Aldair tripped him on the edge of the box. Colleymore stayed on his
    feet but the ball rolled on to the keeper and the referee didn't see
    the trip from behind & gave no free kick.
    	England threw away a good chance - one which will never present
    itself again, ie. they could have beaten both the Rugby & Football
    World Champions on the same day. It wasn't to be and Terry can mark it
    down as another experiment. Most of the problems in defence, it seemed
    to me, stemmed from misunderstanding & a lack of experience of playing
    together. The individual defenders all looked quite comfortable on the
    ball. Having seen England play quite a few times over the last few
    months I would pick the following side:
    
    				Seaman
    
    	Neville		Pallister	Scholes		Le Saux
    			(Cooper)	(Adams)
    
    	Anderton	Platt		Ince		Gazza		
    
    			Shearer		Colleymore
    
    JBG

           <<< Note 89.522 by GENIE::GOODEJ "Mr Dragon - 761 4831" >>>

>    ball. Having seen England play quite a few times over the last few
>    months I would pick the following side:

>                                Seamen
    
>    	Neville		Pallister	Scholes		Le Saux
                                        ^^^^^^^

       Have I missed something?

       Confused,

       Stuart 

    Good report, JBG.
    
    Yep, I'm pretty much in agreement with your team selection, although I
    doubt if you'll be able to convince Gazza to play wide on the left
    (Lazio weren't able to!).
    
    There are a few players who didn't play in the Umbro tournament (Adams,
    Ince, Seaman) who'd probably be first choices. I think Batty's worth
    his place because he does get through an enormous amount of work in
    midfield (the difference yesterday with respect to the Sweden game was
    huge)...however, he'll have to learn to control the physical side of his
    game, especially with whistle-happy Italian referees! I  also think the
    Sherringham-Shearer partnership is a good one; I don't necessarily
    think that Sherringham is a better player than Wright or Colleymore (who 
    looked much sharper yesterday), but he certainly seems to have a better
    understanding with Shearer. Anyway, I think Venables appreciates that
    the modern game calls for good all-rounders; people like Ince, Le Saux
    and Shearer, rather than people like Le Tissier who are wonderfully
    skillful , but practically useless on an off-day!
    
    Still those occasional gaping holes in the defence...personally, I've
    been very impressed with Unsworth on the occasions that I've seen him
    (in the Cup Final and against Japan). Surely he's woth another try. 
    And what about Rob Jones? I may be a bit out of touch with things, but
    from what I've seen, he still strikes me as the best right back in the
    country ahead of Neville, Barton, Bardsley and Dixon (in no particular
    order!). 
    
    Dom
    
    

I think Jones is injured, and that's why he's out. It's not a form thing. I'd
never pick Cooper ahead of Neil Ruddock, and I'd pick Collymore ahead of
Sheringham any day of the week. Other than that I think your team's just about
spot on. 

Mike

    Sorry chaps - Stan is not International class. Venables is still
    struggling to get England teams to play "international" style football.
    IMHO he should either give up and play Engliash style 4-3-1-2 or pick 
    a very different
    team to play 3-5-1-1. If he went 4-3-1-2 I'd pick:
    
    				Seaman
    		Jones	Scales		Adams	LeSaux
    			 Platt	Ince	Anderton
    				Gascoigne			
    			Shearer		Sherringham
    
    With the "continental" style I'd play:
    
    				Seaman
    			Jones	Shaw	LeSaux
    	McManaman	Platt	Ince	Gascoigne	Anderton
    				Le Tissier
    				Shearer
    
    Shaw will cause a few raised eyebrows, but even being a Palace fan, I
    still reckon he is one of the best man markers around which is what you
    need in this format. Also - How many foreign teams play big lumbering
    centreforwards of the type beloved by Adams? If they don't play against
    us, why have someone there to mark them?
    
    Paul

    Hmm...a lot of sound sense there, Paul. I like the look of both those
    teams - it'd be nice to see Venables try the "Continental" one, if only
    for a few games.
    
    To be fair, I haven't really seen enough of Colleymore to say whether
    he's international class (same goes for Barton, Cooper, and one or two
    others). He was crap for an hour against Japan, but looked fine in the
    15 minutes he played against Brazil. My point was that the
    Sherringham-Shearer partnership has looked the best one so far, so I'd
    stick with it.
    
    One other point: not to knock your beloved Richard Shaw, but I'd
    disagree that Tony Adams only likes "big lumbering centre-forwards".
    Arsenal's success in Europe over the last couple of years has seen him
    annihilate people like Weah and Asprilla who are pretty quick. If Adams
    wasn't 6ft 3in tall, people would think twice about saying he was slow;
    I've seen him beat Asprilla and Roberto Donadoni over 20 yards - slow
    he ain't! 
    
    If the guy's got a weakness, it's that habit of sticking an arm up in
    the air every time the ball's played past him ;-)
    
    Dom 

I think Collymore is a much better striker than Sheringham. At least Stan
attacks the goal when he gets the ball rather than looking to play it sideways
as per Spurs attacking policy. 8-)

They're very different, so I suppose it's just a matter of personal preference.

le Tissier is rubbish for 80 minutes of every game and is less deserving of an
international place than John Barnes. At least Barnes did one good thing for
England, even if it was years ago.

Mike

Swiss FA's 100th Birthday Tournament
------------------------------------

	Switzerland 0 Italy 1
		      Casiraghi (55)

I hesitated to put this in the "Friendly" topic with Geiger of Switzerland 
sent off (62m) and 5 more bookings. Switzerland take comfort in only losing by 
1 when down to 10 men. Italy take comfort in winning.

21 Jun	Germany - Italy
23 Jun  Switzerland - Germany

grahame

Swiss FA's 100th Birthday Tournament
------------------------------------

	Germany 2	Italy 0
	Helmer (4)
	Maldini og (38)

Very entertaining game (well, the first half anyway) with Germany winning 
without creating a single chance. First goal came from a corner, when Helmer 
was the only player who moved - free header into the middle of the goal. 
Italy's midfield and frontmen then swarmed all over Germany but a German head, 
toe or fingertip was always last to the ball. Then Heinrich found himself at 
the byline somehow, crossed low and hard, it was missed by 2 defenders and 
Pagliuca leaving The Greatest Defender in the World so surprised he poked it 
into the empty goal.

Second half was mostly substitutions and a threatened pitch-invasion from 
2-300 Italian fans which was averted by a single policeman with dog.

Germany were very organised (don't know if anyone's said that before?), always 
having cover available, but had no flair in midfield (Haessler very 
disappointing, though Ziege sparkled a little in the first half) and no-one up 
front. Kirsten was way out of his depth. For Italy, Zola always looked 
dangerous, and I was impressed by Carboni (I think) who came on for Benarrivo.

Germany:
K�pke; Sammer. Reuter, Babbel, Freund, Heinrich, Helmer, Kuntz (Bobic), 
H�ssler, Ziege, Kirsten

Italy:
Pagliuca, Benarrivo (Carboni), Ferrera, Minotti (Pertruzzi), Maldini, Eranio 
(Statuto), Di Matteo, Albertini, Berti (Del Piero), Zola (Signori), Casiraghi.

23 Jun  Switzerland - Germany

grahame

Grahame,

Are you trying to say that Germany were ruthlessly efficient? 8-)

Mike

    ...or a scientific war machine, maybe? ;-)
    
    Dom

Actually, I thought the Italian comments would attract the most retorts!

Over the past few years I've been surprised to see the German team still win 
the vast majority of its matches, but without looking like a good side. When 
they won the world cup(s) they had great stars and played some lovely stuff. 
Now they're still one of the most successful teams around, but I find it very 
hard to work out why - without resorting to the old cliches.

I'm probably upset because when England goes through a bad patch it last 30 
years (optimistic!) and we're crap; when Germany do, they only get to the 
semi-finals of every competition they enter!

g

Swiss FA Tournament

(Can't blieve no-one's asked for this!)

Germany beat Switzerland 2-1 in the last game. Goals by H�ssler, M�ller, Knup.

Swiss media said Germany were lucky.

g

    Friendlies last night:
    
    Israel 3-1 Uruguay
    Spain 2-1 Argentina
    Japan 1-2 Paraguay
    Greece 0-2 Yugoslavia
    
    Dom

Yugoslavia ?

    Yessum! Amazing as it may be, rump Yugoslavia (effectively, just
    Serbia and Montenegro) has inherited the name "Yugoslavia". Then again,
    I presume that Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia Erzegov%%% and Macedonia are 
    keen to underline that they have left the union.
    
    Yugoslavia can still select players of the calibre of Savicevic and
    Mihailovic.
    
    Dom

     >>> Yugoslavia can still select players of the calibre of Savicevic
    and Mihailovic.
    
    ... and Lecovic 8^,

    re Norway v England
    
    Reports state that some known hooligans have been booted out of Norway 
    before they could cause trouble....Well done to the English and Norwegian
    police forces....at last it looks like some lessons have been learned
    
    
    Ray....

    Ray,
    
    >at last it looks like some lessons have been learned
    
    Except the one about confiscating passports.
    
    Stuart

    
    England team to play Norway.
    
    Seamen
    Neville
    Pearce
    Pallister
    Adams (C)
    Redknapp
    Lee
    Wise
    McMannaman
    Barmby
    Shearer
    
    I go for a draw in this game, which will be a good result for England.
    
    Dave...

After listening to the radio this morning, I think that getting through 90
minutes will be a good result for England.

> After listening to the radio this morning, I think that getting through 90
> minutes will be a good result for England.


For the benefit of those who didn't listen to the radio, what's the news???


Ian.

    I think this refers to a sad early termination as per the last away
    "friendly". There are reputed to be 300 supporters without tickets over
    from England, and already in prison is a known leader from one of the
    faschist groups (forgotten which one)
    
    Derek

    Combat 18 , Derek. Others have already been deported. 10 are being held
    after being arrested and found in possesion of neo-nazi literature. Do
    not beleive they are on their own out there as Norway has quite a good
    collection of nazi scum of it's own !!!
    
    		Saddened_Stretch. 

    You have to wonder at their mentality. England are playing abroad so
    all of the authorities are on alert for trouble. So what do the
    "skinheads" do. Pack their bags with imflammatory material. Hmmm,
    wonder if they thought they weren't going to get searched at
    customs!?!?!

    >You have to wonder at their mentality. 
    
    Has to be the understatement of the century, Stuart!
    
    Having witnessed the backdrop to the recent Croatia-Italy fixture (two
    countries with a recent Fascist past), the increasingly right-wing
    nature of British football hooliganism appears all the more worrying.
    While the right wing threat in Britain is not nearly as alarming as in
    many other European countries (witness the aftermath of the Tower
    Hamlets elections), this country is still regarded (rightly or wrongly)
    as the capital of football hooliganism.
    
    All of which doesn't augur well for EC95...
    
    Dom
    

    Dom,
    	I think that the Euro '96 problems have been anticipated with the
    opinion that 'we are aware of the activists and have them on home
    ground,so they should be easier to control' !!! Yeah right !!! 
    
    Staurt,
    	I do not agree with the 'skinhead' being an automatic facsist. The
    original Skins were into ska etc. There is a worldwide patch, worn by
    the real skins with the title S.H.A.R.P (skin heads against racial
    prejudice) . Any skin of true origins will wear this. 
    
    'Boneheads' on the other hand seems to be more apt when used to
    describe the scum we are currently talking about.
    
    
    		Stretch. 
    

    Re. Skins
    
    Got to agree with Stretch on that, how many skins did you see involved
    in trouble in Dublin - not many (I can't remember seeing any). 
    It's the almost respectable looking anarok wearer who's usually in the
    thick of it. Perhaps they are train spotters? :^0
    
    
    Al.

    Nope Stretch, I object to word Bonehead. Does Dickhead suffice?

    Al,
    
    >It's the almost respectable looking anarok wearer who's usually in the
    >thick of it. Perhaps they are train spotters? :^0
    
    Why do you know something about Rick (with a silent P) that we don't?
    
    Stuart

    I too am convinced that they're not bona fide skinheads (just bona fide
    boneheads!)...but there's still no denying that the right-wing element
    seems to be on the increase. True, skinheads were originally attracted
    to ska/reggae, but Germany has probably overtaken the UK as European
    ska capital...and there's no shortage of right-wing skinheads there! 
    
    Don't get me wrong, Stretch; I'm still quietly confident that the
    authorities have the problem under control for EC95 - I just don't
    think they should underestimate the attraction of Britain (as football
    hooliganism's Mecca) for the really nasty fascist elements frequently
    seen on the terraces in Germany, Italy and (make no mistake) Croatia
    and Slovenia (to name but a few). 
    
    Dom

    >Why do you know something about Rick (with a silent P) that we don't?
    
    Stuart, we go train spotting together - he wears the anorak though.
    
    Al

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    Pedantic I know, but i don't think British is appropriate here.
    
    
    Kev... 

    Kev,
    	Sorry, I realised about 10 mins after I entered the header what it
    actually said. I do agree 100%.
        
    
    		Stretch.

    Another scintilating performance from the Scribes West XI. They didn't
    create enough chances and Shearer isn't good enough to play up front on
    his own. Trevor Francis, for once, got it right when he said that the
    team lacked pace and playing that formation you need players with a lot
    of pace. 
    
    Venables is starting to show the pressure of the job. His media
    interviews are showing him as tetchy when the lack of goals scored by
    his side. He claimed his predecessor would have been more than happy
    with that result.
    
    Wise just isn't good enough at international level. He lacks pace and
    cannot put a decent cross over. Sheringham/Shearer need to play with
    A.N.Other up front (current fave is Ferdinand) if they play at all.
    
    Only the defence & goalkeeper can come away from the match feeling
    happy with their performances.
    
    The award for the biggest load of tripe on the Sky commentary/analysis
    goes to Glen Hoddle. He said that the English players would struggle
    because they aren't used to playing against the Norwegian style of
    play. Err....
    
    Stuart       
    
    

Ummmmmmm....and for those of us out partying last night, the score was???



Ian.

    A boring 0-0.
    
    William.
    
    P.S. Didn't the side reflect the current racial make-up of the premier
    league at the moment.  I can't believe there isn't one non-white
    football player who isn't goo enough to make the team!!! Oh Well

    re -1
    ???? Given the enormous number of coloured players who have played for
    England, I can't believe it's necessary to jump to conclusions just
    because for once they happen to field a team without any! That said, I
    would expect at least Ince to be a fixture in the team for the European
    Championships.        
    
    Hmm, is anyone keeping count of the number of 0-0 draws that TV's team
    is chalking up? Aside from that spell of madness during the summer
    tournament (6 for, 7 against), I can recall goaless draws against
    Norway (twice), Columbia, plus 1-0 wins against Nigeria and Denmark.
    The rest is (appropriately) a blank.
    
    Dom

    
    I felt as though I wasted an hour and a half of my life last night !!!
    
    That has to be one of the most pointless exercises in English football
    history. For once I had to agree with Chinny Hill on his comments about
    the standard on display last night. We had no penetration , no real
    signs of motivation (even Stuart Pearce looked bored !!). 
    
    If that is what TV is trying to acheive (he seemed happy with the
    result/game in general in the interveiws) why does he not give Le Tiss
    and Les F a run out as we had nothing to lose. 
    
    O.K you could say it bodes well for the defence , but the Norwegians
    were not exactly bothered themselves.
    
    There is not much time before the real matches start and friendlies
    against Portugal are not going to present the hard competition we need
    before EC96. 
    
    
    			Stretch.
    
    P.S Did anyone else think Seamo looked a little shaky ??(not that he
    got much to stop !!)

    Stretchy - poos
    
    Re Spunky & Looking Shaky
    
    No.
    
    Stuart

    Not that you are biased, or anything, Stuart !!!

>    There is not much time before the real matches start and friendlies
>    against Portugal are not going to present the hard competition we need

Hi Stretch,

Have you seen the qualifying groups? Norway and Portugal are exactly the 
opposition England should be playing - they could well have them next year.

Seeing as I don't have access to the in-depth analysis provided by the English 
media, can someone tell me what TV is supposed to be up to? Has he actually 
said that this is the sort of side he plans on using? Or is he just 'having a 
look at various options', and not picking some first-choice players? Or was 
last night the best he thinks he has? 

grahame

    What England needs is a player like....
    
    
    
    	Tony Yeboah.
    
    	Cheers,
    
    	Rick.

    re .554
    
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        Pedantic I know, but i don't think British is appropriate here.
    
    
        Kev...
    
    Kev,
    
    Just another bit of social history for you (� Stretch).
    
    The term hooligan is derived from an Irish family living in the East
    End of London in the 1860's who displayed the necessary
    "attributes"....
    
    Stuart
    
    BTW Weren't Rangers been banned from Europe for crowd disorders
    	following the 1972 CWC Final?
    

    From what I saw of the 'highlights' this must have been an awful
    game to watch live. Re Wise - his best position is in the centre of
    the park not on the wing. He hasn't played as an out-an-out winger 
    for Chelsea for many years now and yet Venables seems to think this
    is where he should play. Wise turned in a very good performance for 
    England against Nigeria but this was due to the fact that Venables had
    to stick him in the middle after somebody was injured.
    
    Either way, if he wants a proper winger then Wise is not the man and
    in the middle of the park one assumes that Gascoigne will move back
    into middle along with Platt or Redknapp or Ince, come the next game.
    
    Question: Why has Rob Jones been ousted by Neville in Venables' 
    masterplan?
    
    Andy
    

>    Question: Why has Rob Jones been ousted by Neville in Venables' 
>    masterplan?
    
>    Andy
 
    
    Good question Andy.  Although Neville has the potential to be an
    excellent right-back, I don't think he's the finished article.  Rob
    Jones is an equally good/average full-back but provides the team with
    more attacking options.  He could also link with his 'Pool team-mate,
    Macmananamanaman on the right (why is TV playing him on the left ?)
    which would give the team a better balance (imo).   
    
    Despite yet another clean-sheet, I think the defence is still a little
    suspect, and TV should look to employ some kind of holding player in
    front of the back 4.  Yer man Ince seems ideally suited to this role.
    
    If TV persists with this lone striker jobby, then I would like to see the 
    following team for the next friendly :
    
    			    Seaman
    		Jones	Adams	Pallister   Le Saux 
                            Ince
    		Macman  Anderton Le Tiss  Gazza
    			   Ferdinand
    
    

>    
>    			    Seaman
>    		Jones	Adams	Pallister   Le Saux 
>                            Ince
>    		Macman  Anderton Le Tiss  Gazza
>    			   Ferdinand
    
Has LeTiss signed for Manu then Dave?! 

No, replace him (as he won't get picked) and Macman with Beardsley and Platt,
and we'll be in with a chance. 

g

>Has LeTiss signed for Manu then Dave?! 

    and the implication there is ... ?
    
>No, replace him (as he won't get picked) and Macman with Beardsley and Platt,
>and we'll be in with a chance. 
>
>g
    
    I agree that TV will probably not select Le Tiss, and I sort of agree
    that Macman is not quite up to the job, but a team with Anderton,
    Gazza, Quasi and Platt in midfield looks slightly lacking in width and
    pace.  Which probably means that TV will be more than happy !
    
    
    

    Has the squad been announced yet for the match against Switzerland next
    Wednesday.
    
    
    Ian.