Conference thebay::joyoflex

   "Wow, you have television, too?"

   This question was asked of a European exchange student in an American
   high school. 


   							Terza

>>	....Europeans do not in any way celebrate Thanksgiving.

	Wrong.  Many Brits celebrate Thanksgiving - on the 4th of July.

>
>>>      ....Europeans do not in any way celebrate Thanksgiving.
>
>        Wrong.  Many Brits celebrate Thanksgiving - on the 4th of July.
>

Wrong, and wrong again, many Brits celebrate Thanksgiving as Harvest
Festival, promoted in particular by the church.  It isn't a public holiday
though ... it falls on a Sunday!)

Stuart

On the subject of disbelief ....

   I am an expatriate expatriate Anglo-Canadian.  When I went to the UK in
1966 after 13 years in Canada, I remember very clearly in school being asked
speak Canadian.  When I stated (proudly) I was, I was told that was English.
So I asked what do you think Canadians speak then ?  They couldn't believe it!

I couldn't either!

Stuart

    I speak with an upper Midwest accent, which is about as "standard
    American" as even the TV announcers can make it, so I haven't been on
    the receiving end of "Do you always speak like that?"  I'll have to
    take your word for it that you have been asked that question.  I can
    easily understand a question such as, "What accent do you speak with?"
    but I'm a bit bemused by "Do you always speak like that?"

    I find it even stranger for it to happen in Plymouth, Massachusetts.
    Between the Dorchester, Boston Brahmin, Kennedy, Harvard-mock British,
    and Down East accents, one more slightly different one shouldn't give
    rise to that question.  I have trouble believing the question is asked
    in jest, but I have no other explanation.

Are the Brits celebrating the date they got shed of the
colonies ;-}

I don't think your *average* Brit has the slightest idea of the significance
of the 4th of July ... good or bad!  :-)

Stuart

	Re: .7 

>>	Are the Brits celebrating the date they got shed of the
>>	colonies ;-}

	Right!  Well spotted.  :-)

    	I must admit that it was only after a couple of years of living in
    France that I managed to remember which country celebrated July 4th.
    and which celebrated July 14th..
    
    	A friend of mine when travelling Europe with a friend was in a
    railway station in Paris, and discussing in Swedish the merits of the
    various women around them. He was most surprised when he was thanked
    for the compliment in perfect Swedish. Mark Twain tells a similar story
    from when he visited Paris.

    Re .3

    The people who, as reported in .0, can't believe that Europeans don't
    celebrate Thanksgiving Day, may well take

    � 			...many Brits celebrate Thanksgiving as Harvest
    �Festival, promoted in particular by the church

    as suggesting that the British, trying to fill out their holiday
    calendar, invented the Harvest Festival on the analogy of TD. I have a
    feeling that the Harvest Festival came a little earlier. It's been
    kitted out with all the trappings of a church festival (a Holy Day),
    but I suspect that - like many holidays that have acquired a Christian
    patina (Christmas for example - or the Winter Solstice as it was
    celebrated by pre-Christian societies) - Harvest Festival can be traced
    back as far as anything _can_ be traced back: thanking the gods for a
    good harvest.

    b

    ps - A Happy Winter Solstice to all our readers

    
    I have a Boston (specifically, Dorchester) accent.  I've sometimes
    been asked by non-Bostonians _in Boston_ if I am British(!).  I think
    it has to do with the similar pronunciations of "bahth" (bath),
    lahf (laugh), hahf (half), cahf (calf) etc.  But being asked such 
    a question in my own city is kinda weird...:-)
    
    - Phil

    At least they haven't asked you if you always speak like that.

    Re .0
    
    >I have been disbelieved by Americans when I've said that Europeans do not
    >in any way celebrate Thanksgiving.
    
    That's all right.  Other Americans don't believe that Canadians fully do
    celebrate Thanksgiving.  (With a special day set aside for it, a legal
    holiday in fact, on the second Monday in October.)

    
    We in England don't give a monkeys for 4th July even though we are
    fully aware of the insignificance of the day.

    Perhaps England goes directly from the 3rd to the 5th.

    
    That's about the size of it matey!!

    ... is to find a particularly USophobic one who knows full well about
    American Independence Day, and to ask them rather pugnaciously whether
    or not "you folks in Great (snicker) Britain have a Fourth of July."
    
    99% of 'em always respond "Certainly NOT!" :-{
    
    Then I ask 'em exactly the question ::EGGERS asked in .16 ....
    
    Works 100% of the time on Micky Simpson!!  :-)

    One thing I never thought I would hear (read) is that anyone *anywhere*
    has *ever* mistaken a Dorchester accent for a *British* accent!
    
    
    
    (*8
    
    
    E Grace

re .18

Reminds me of the old kids joke ...

"Do you live on Xyz Street ?"

"Yes"

"Well, you'd better get off, there's a truck coming!"

    
    re: .19
    
    >One thing I never thought I would hear (read) is that anyone *anywhere*
    >has *ever* mistaken a Dorchester accent for a *British* accent!
    
    Just imagine my surprise too.  They really aren't alike, but it's
    happened to me at least three times!
    
    Again, I think its the cahnt for can't, hahf for haff (half) that
    must make them think it might be British.  Those are the only word
    types in the "dot" accent I can think of that come close to sounding 
    British...
    
    - Phil

    ps, for anyone wondering where "dot" fits in, it's the short-hand
        of the sometimes-pronounced "Dotchestah" (the other is "Dawchestah").
        Ergo, Dorchester Ave. is almost always called "Dot Ave.", the
        old Dorchester Theatre (long gone) was the "Dot Theatah", etc.
        Dorchester itself is sometimes referred to as "dirty dot" (it
        really isn't so dirty though, in fact it has some pretty nice
        sections ...)
    

    When I visited England a few years ago, a British traveling companion
    and I overheard a tourist, evidently from Texas, talking on the phone
    in a hotel lobby. As soon as the Texan was out of earshot, my puzzled
    companion asked me, "What planet was she from?"
    
    					Val

	Then there was the snooty Bostonian visiting Texas.  The hotel 
	check-in clerk offered a friendly "Hi, where are you-all from?".

	The wife said "*We* are from a place where we do not - evah - 
	end a sentence with a preposition!".

	The clerk paused before she replied "OK.  Where are you-all 
	from .. bitch?".

	Jim  

	PS I know two Boston-relateed jokes.  Wanna hear the other?

    Not after that one.

    Forgive me for branching back to the original topic -- I'll try to
    start another sidebar before I finish :-)

    My wife and I are WASP from way back, and we carefully considered the
    effects of adopting a baby from India before my Calcutta-born daughter
    arrived here at age 2 months. We hadn't thought of everything, though.
    For instance, we hadn't thought about what to say when someone learned
    where Caitlin was from and asked "What language will she speak?" After
    it happened a couple of times, though, I developed a stock answer: "I
    hope it's English. I want to ask her what that pink dot on the forehead
    means."

    By the time Caitlin was a toddler my reaction time had improved. She
    was playing at my feet one day as my mother-in-law and her friend
    chatted with us. After commenting on how beautiful Cait's black hair
    and brown skin were my mother-in-law's friend looked at my blond white
    self and asked, conspiratorially,  "Are you going to tell her she's
    adopted?" I clapped my hands over Cait's ears, said "Shhhhh!" with
    distress and urgency, then turned the conversation to other topics
    while my wife tried to keep her composure and my mother-in-law tried to
    pretend she hadn't brought this dimwit into our house.

    To progress down a new path: which of you is willing to admit to
    misleading the credulous as cruelly as the time I explained the true
    facts about kiwi fruit to a coworker. Specifically, that "kiwi fruit"
    was a marketing term invented because no one would eat them if they
    knew these fuzzy green things were in fact kiwi eggs. (It was two days
    before she learned what I'd done to her, from the third person she
    related this new knowledge to. That was a tough group.)

    Rob

    P.S. My Alberta-born accent has been changed by 20+ years in
    Massachusetts into something that has been identified by imaginative
    listeners as coming from England, Ireland and Virginia, to name just a
    few. And everything that has been written in previous replies about
    natives who ask "Do you have TV there?" and so on happened to me when I
    first moved here :-( It's great fun to pretend you're seeing it for the
    first time  :-)
    
    

    Oh, yes!  A friend of mine and I once had another kid (high school age
    here!) convinced that we had been Siamese twins, joined at the hip.  
    
    
    
    
    My friend is black, and I am not!   (*8
    
    
    E Grace

>    To progress down a new path: which of you is willing to admit to
>    misleading the credulous as cruelly as the time I explained the true
>    facts about kiwi fruit to a coworker. Specifically, that "kiwi fruit"
>    was a marketing term invented because no one would eat them if they
>    knew these fuzzy green things were in fact kiwi eggs. (It was two days
>    before she learned what I'd done to her, from the third person she
>    related this new knowledge to. That was a tough group.)

	Did this coworker know that the word "gullible" is NOT in the
	dictionary?

		-- Cliff

Nobody would buy kiwi fruit if they knew the origin of the term "kiwi fruit."
They're called that because they resemble kiwi turds.

    Well, I dunno why the Kiwis thought that "kiwi fruit" would be a good
    marketing name, but before the fruit was transplanted to New Zealand,
    it was known as "monkey fruit" in China.  (I guess the Chinese knew as
    much about marketing as Digital did.)
    
    --Simon
    

    >(I guess the Chinese knew as much about marketing as Digital did.)
    
    This reminds me of a crack I heard about Digital at a conference
    recently:  
    
    	Digital was the first to market sushi in this country.
    	Trouble is, they marketed it as "dead, raw fish."
    
    					andrew
                                              

>   <<< Note 937.29 by SIMON::SZETO "Simon Szeto, International Sys. Eng." >>>
>                       -< (another tangent starts here) >-
>
>    Well, I dunno why the Kiwis thought that "kiwi fruit" would be a good
>    marketing name, but before the fruit was transplanted to New Zealand,
>    it was known as "monkey fruit" in China.  (I guess the Chinese knew as
>    much about marketing as Digital did.)
>    
>    --Simon
>    
Well, twenty or thirty years ago, it was called "chinese gooseberry" in New
Zealand. The name "kiwi fruit" was chosen for marketing it in the States, but
now seems to be in general use in New Zealand as well.

				I

    ANd then you have the enterprising New Zealand Farmer, who has taken
    the common possum, more of a pest than anything, and is breeding them.
    He feeds them on bruised KiwiFruit, which the growers will just about
    give away. He sells the furs, sells the meat as "Kiwi Bear" to the
    south east asian market.
    
    q
    

�                 <<< Note 937.31 by I::STOCKS "Ian Stocks" >>>
�
�Well, twenty or thirty years ago, it was called "chinese gooseberry" in New
�Zealand. The name "kiwi fruit" was chosen for marketing it in the States, but
�now seems to be in general use in New Zealand as well.
    
    I had a job with a greengrocer's firm in 1968 in London
    (England), and the name for kiwi fruit was always - on the
    delivery notes - Chinese Gooseberry. But the people who came
    and bought them didn't know any different; so we kept
    calling them kiwi fruit. I guess the people at head office
    had heard about the `turd' derivation, and were trying to
    get a euphemism into circulation before the punters found
    out.
    
    b 

    
    Are you sure you weren't referring to Lychees?  After all, London in
    1968 was "hip and swinging" and I'm sure after a few "herbal" fags a
    Kiwi fruit could look like a gooseberry, almost...

    In 1968 I hadn't even _heard_ of lychees. It'd be imputing
    Byzantine tricksiness to the marketing department of T. W. Walton,
    fruiterers, Ltd, to suggest that they hi-jacked a pre-existing
    New Zealand name for a New Zealand fruit [or were they grown in
    South Africa, hmm...] and tried to pass off lychees under the new
    name.
    

    Once upon a time� there was a World Science Fiction Convention in
    Toronto.
    
    The membership people had managed to lose the file boxes� containing
    the V-W preregistrations.
    
    My dear friend Tony Lewis worked Registration, and explained to an
    unfortunate woma that she would have to go to the Problems Desk,
    because her last name started with "V", and there was no "V" in the
    Canadian alphabet.  She was surprised, but understanding�.
    
    It was later remarked that Tony's information undoubtedly came as
    a surprise to Canadians "from Noa Scotia to Ancouer".
    
    						Ann B.
    
    � Twice, actually, but this problem only showed up for the second
    convention.
    � This was in 1973.  No one would have been caught dead trusting
    a computer with on-line registration in those days.
    � Read as "docile".

    Well, that does sound like Tony.

    At York Minster a few weeks ago, I decided to pay up and climb to the
    top of the tower. York Minster is not a new building. Most observers
    would realise that it definitely is in the Really Old stakes.

    As I waited in the queue to pay for a ticket, I heard a female American
    voice behind me say, 

    	"You mean, there's NO ELEVATOR!".

    At this realisation, she changed her mind about visiting the tower.

    Dougie

    Re: .-1

    Ugh!  I condemn her to walk up the Washington Monument in August.
    And she won't have to pay for the ride down.

    I was somewhat surprised to find that Evan Kemp, the chairman of the
    U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, has been accusing the
    Muscular Dystrophy Association (for which sometime actor, comedian, 
    and - in some locales - cultural icon Jerry Lewis heads an annual
    fund-raiser) of "using tragic stories to evoke pity and wring money
    from telethon viewers".
    
    Just what part of the concept of a "telethon" did Mr. Kemp not
    understand, such that he's so terribly surprised about what they do?
    
    -b

    I think Mr. Kemp understands the concept of a fund-raising telethon,
    and I doubt he is surprised.  He just doesn't like it: in some quarters
    it is no longer politically correct.

    I've also seem some complaints - from people with MD, or other
    diseases-related disabilities.  They feel that events such as the
    telethon perpetuates an image of the disabled (or "differently abled"
    in Newspeak) as deserving of pity.  Also, that telethons focus on
    buying leg-braces or other treatments at the expense of research to
    cure or prevent the illness.
    
    I *think* I read a news-item last week that a number of former "poster
    children" had published a statement to this effect.
    
    
    regards...
    ...diane

    Yes, I'd heard bits and pieces about the other protests being waged,
    and am certainly in sympathy with those who don't like telethons,
    and/or those who don't want themselves held up as "pity icons".
    However, I find it very hard to imagine a way to ask for public
    subscriptions to fight some ailment or other _without_ pointing out the
    consequences of the lack of such support, and that's what the tone of
    the article suggested to me.
    
    -b