Conference rocks::uk_digital

    So, any news of the move?

    
    Andy,
    
    Latest available information, as of a month or more ago, via the 
    grapevine, is that Corporate have been asked to approve the Crescent
    as the new home for the CSC.
    
    It's been awfully quiet of late, with no official communications from
    anyone.
    
    Watch this space !!
    
    Brian.
    

    > -< Is it "No News is Good News" ?? >-
    
    No, its no news is pretty much what happens around here!!

	It seems to me that the CSC is moving quite quickly. At
	the current rate, the operation should be complete in 
	another 2 or 3 months.

	~Ian.

Rumour has it there's been 2 out of 3 approval for the 
crescent and subject to financial support we'll be 
going there. 

    What ? I thought it was just subject to Corporate approval, now
    we're waiting for financial approval ? What next ?
    
    Royston (whose house purchase in Basingstoke is based on these rumours)

    Is it true that if you are relocated more then x miles,  then the
    company must offer redundancy ?
    
    Also, what is the x miles ?
    
    Cheers,
    
    Chris

    >what is the x miles
    
    Its on BBC 1 on Thursdays at nine mirty.

    
    No it's not..
    
    Depending on how you read the T&C's it would seem that if your place 
    of work moves further than 30 miles then the company has to offer
    redundancy, but..
    
    If the company offers relocation, then they say that you have been
    offered a "reasonable" alternative to redundancy and therefore are not
    entitled to it.
    
    You would then have to argue the definition of "reasonable".

    
>    You would then have to argue the definition of "reasonable".

	Reasonable depends on your current job (and level) and its demands.
	Reasonable for a senior person, might not be reasonable for an
	administrator.
	The legal folks don't have any good definitions, so you'd have to test
	your arguement in court, if you couldn't persuade Digital.

R.

    SOme time back the definition of the relocation distance was changed so
    that a Basingstoke <-> Reading relo had no compensation attached.

Reading to Basingstoke is less than 30 miles (as the crow flys) so no 
relocation package is allowed. I've been moved twice since joining this 
comapny.

Colchester -> Welwyn
Welwyn -> London.

Colchester to Welwyn I was offered full relocation. Welwyn to London I got 
only a disturbance allowance of 1500 for the first year, after that nothing.

    I heard a rumour that we find out about the move today ?  can anyone
    confirm or dispell (sp?) that rumour ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Chris

    
    >> can anyone confirm or dispell (sp?) that rumour ?
    
    The person you heard it from, perhaps????
    
    HTH
    Sharon

    Sharon,
    
    As with most rumours, I heard it from someone, who heard it from
    someone, who knows the person that said it.  The person I heard it from
    swears the information is reliable, etc, etc, etc, and that the information
    came from a horses mouth, so to speak.
    
    Cheers,
    
    Chris :-)
    
                                                  

    And I heard it from someone who posted it here who heard about it...
    
    so it must be true!
    
    Jc
    

    
    Well they're leaving it a bit late if "they" are going to make any sort
    of announcement! - but then what's new?
    
    >>>came from a horses mouth, so to speak.
    
    Mr Ed, perchance???
    
    Sharon

    Ah well, as an ex-denizen of the CSC, I wish it and the folks there
    well. 
    
    I'll read the result in the papers, no doubt.
    
    Bye.

    We've got a meeting at 4pm. the management apologise for the short
    notice blahblahblah....  Maybe they will be announcing the details
    then so hang around a bit Andy. I know you wouldn't be happy if you
    left without knowing the details... 

    
    
    Well...?
    
    The suspense is killing me.

    One minute of suspense?

    
    
    Come on.....how long does it take to say READING
    

    
    >> The suspense is killing me.
    
    I've told you about wearing them round the wrong way Ian!!!  :)
    
    Sharon

    It turned out to an internal, operational issue. Strange, we don't
    normally get short notice meetings about work. Although we did once
    have one where our manager threatened to sack the whole lot of us 
    en masse because he believed one of us had been naughty. (I'd better 
    add that it wasn't our current manager in case some sneak tells him 
    about this!)
    
    
    rosco

    We have a mail from Patrick Abrahams which I have not bothered to seek
    permission to post here as it is being cascaded to all Viables
    residents.
    
    It says, amongst other things, that the OCC and OSS functions in
    Viables will not be moving to Reading.  Work is still being done on
    whether we should stay in Viables and refurbish, move to Crescent or
    find another building in Basingstoke.
    
    So, Chris can stop worrying about how far you'd have to move before you
    became entitled to redundancy and Royston can buy his house.
    
    Now let's change the emphasis from "Is it Reading or Basingstoke" to
    "Which end of Jays Close is it and will I get incremental mileage?" :*)
    
    Jon

    >Chris can stop worrying about how far you'd have to move before you
    >became entitled to redundancy and Royston can buy his house.
    
    Jon, you make me feel as if I'm part of one big happy family :-)
    
    Royston
    
    (Hoping to be a 'stokey by mid March)

	I saw an order for two tins of emulsion the other day so I guess
	we're staying at Viables.

	;^)

    Nah, that was for my new house.
    
    Royston

    
    >So, Chris can stop worrying about how far you'd have to move before you
    >became entitled to redundancy and Royston can buy his house.
                                                                          
    Those are brave words Jon.  What if it is decided in a few months 
    time that business requirements have changed and the CSC will be moving
    to DECPark ?  I'd check how legally binding the document is (was it
    deliberately using a "comic" font :-) and what comeback there is if you
    get sent to DECPark before committing to something like buying a house.
                                                                  
    /tmp

I'm sure, given that it's been made clear the feelings of 
people around here, and how unambiguous that mail was, 
that if within the near future (we were talking about a 
couple of years max time scale for the move so that probably 
covers what near future is) if the decision were changed to 
be Reading there'd be a few people willing to test the water of
constructive dismissal redundancy cases, then again the meer bad 
publicity that'd bring'd probably do no end of rebalancing to 
the costs involved in moves into the favour of Basingstoke now. 

    I hope Digital move to Chineham :-)
    
    Chris

    Who is making the decision where we are going? 
    
    I know it is a choice between the current building with a fresh coat of
    paint, and the Crescent. 
    
    But when is this decision going to be made?

    P.S And why is it taking such a long time?

    re .226 >Who is making the decision 
    
    Maybe you have been living in a cave. We are waiting for corporate
    approval.
    
    Royston

    >Maybe you have been living in a cave.
    
    Yeah, I work in comms!

    >> ...where we are going? 
        
        Well the answer has become clear over the last few weeks:
        contracting.
        
        Another Friday, another presentation... but there are so few
        people remaining now that we've had to bring in two contractors
        for the leaving do.
        
        Ian.

>    >> ...where we are going? 
>        
>        Well the answer has become clear over the last few weeks:
>        contracting. 
    
    So that's where he went, I thought he was a little cagey :-)        
    
>        Another Friday, another presentation... but there are so few
>        people remaining now that we've had to bring in two contractors
>        for the leaving do.
    
    Isn't this a little over the top ... short term contracts like that
    have such high hourly rates ... 
    
    Antonio

    
       >Isn't this a little over the top 
    
       It is a little over the top that two weeks ago we lost 1 specialist. 
       The week before that, we lost another one. Last week, we lost a 
       specialist, and we had 3 resign. 

	Left already                3
	Resigned, waiting to leave  3
    

    You forgot to mention those 
    
    	"resigned to remaining in the CSC" :-)
    
    Jc

>"resigned to remaining in the CSC" :-)
 

Which is more than you can say the latest contractor was. 

He walked out on a statement of he could get half 
the stress for twice the money and it just wasn't worth 
it apparently. 

   

    What's happening at the CSC reminds me of a joke.
    
    An English man, Scotts man and an Irish man are stranded on a desert
    island.  One day they find a lamp, which they rub. A genee (sp?) appears
    in a cloud of smoke and grants them a wish each.
    
    The English man wishes that he was at home with the wife (odd sort:-)
    and promptly disapears.
    
    The Scotts man wishes that he was in the local pub drinking whisky and
    he too disappears.
    
    The Irish man looks around and says:
    "I wish my mates were back",   and the English man and Scotts man
    re-appear.
    
         
    I find myself in a similar position to the Irish man.   Can we have
    some people back please ?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Chris

        Re -.1
        
        Fortunately our Irishman was one of the first to go :-)
        
        Ian.

That's it you're not looking far enough afield - 
we've got our Kiwi back in Unix. :^)

    Has anyone else noticed that the letters D,I,G,I,T,A,L have been
    removed (or painted over) on the Cresent's Digital sign ?
    
    Anyone care to speculate/comment ?
    
    Chris

Well round the corner here at Skippetts, the Digital sign by 
the door has gone completely!

T

    
    
    Perhaps you should nick the one which is still outside the Welwyn
    Building !!!!
    
    Twice moved (and wondering what you're all moaning so much about instead
    of looking for a new job if you're that p***ed off!!)
    
    

    
   > Twice moved (and wondering what you're all moaning so much about instead
   > of looking for a new job if you're that p***ed off!!)
        
        I don't think you're paying attention.
        
        ~Ian.

    >....looking for a new job if you're that p***ed off!!
    
    Well, almost 50% of our group has left. This is why we are currently up
    the creek without a paddle. 
    
    The whole CSC is pissed off, and we cant have the whole CSC leave now
    can we. I am not going to leave just because somone is pissing me off.
    I am more likley to stay and beat the odds. I would get more pleasure
    from that.
    
    Steven 

    >The whole CSC is pissed off
    
    My friend you are making rather a sweeping generalistion here.
    
    Royston

    Am I wrong?

    Yes,  the CSC doesn't just contain some underpaid tecchies who moan a
    lot.  There's some overpaid ones too :-)  and other types of people. 
    Although being a techie myself I don't understand what they are or what they
    do.  Anyway, we have been promised a move to DECPark (subject to
    Corporate funding)
    
    /tmp

    Re these two statements
    
        **The whole CSC is pi**ed off
        >>My friend you are making rather a sweeping generalization here.
    
        I don't think the statement marked with ** is  not being at all
        General, If fact I think if you open your eyes and ears this is 
        exactly the general feeling, there seems to be more people 
        dissatisfied than are satisfied in the OSS, yes you have
    	an option, but a lot of people stupidly or not, believe in Digital
    	and that is why they stay, in the hope things might improve.
    
        This General feeling seems to have been the case for a good 
    	few months if not years, hence why the CSC is in a poor state 
    	of affairs now, because people are now voting with their feet. 
    	
    	It just seems you can beat your heads against a brick wall only 
    	so many times, before it really hurts 
    
        PART PROBLEM>>>
    
        We seem to have an ever increasing amount of contractors (no
        disrespect), but if DEC had paid the permanent staff a decent 
        salary etc etc.... in the first place they would not be such 
    	a great need to invest LARGE amount of money in contractors 
        and Dec would still have the investment they had put into  
        people over the years, instead of it walking out of the door..
    
    	Me I have good and bad days, to day seems to to bad, but it is 
    	only 10:30
    
        Regards
        Lawrence.
    

I think the thing that finally made my mind up was the bonus
fiasco last year. It's like having your partner be unfaithful;
once done it's hard to repair the trust that existed. This
might be a metaphor too far of course 'cos I was the one being
shafted.

In a fit of pique I (stupidly) put my CV on the net. Since then
I've been getting about 10 calls a week from recruitment agencies.
I'm still turning down all offers but to be honest some of them
are so attractive I can't see me holding out much longer. (Anyone
fancy 6 months in SoCal for $80k? or maybe 60quid/hr in the City?)

S. (still married to DEC but contemplating counselling)

His mistake was to say the whole csc, when what he meant 
was the vast majority are most of the time. 

I think we have a couple of people here in unix who 
aren't normally that way, but occasionally have their
moments, a couple who don't care too much, some       
who are not so happy (most of them have left now 
though). Still I'd better get going there's only 
me and Ian doing unix live for the UK, Middle East
and Ireland etc at the moment.

If the emergency headcount stuff all comes through
and the replacements are aggressively aquired 
(like 
quick! before anyone else leaves!) then that seems 
likely to stem the flow.   (If they aren't then 
it's going to get silly - the majority left on the 
CSC payroll will be those who are off sick through 
stress related illnesses still. 

    Hey guys,
    
    It's just as bad in the field!
    
    Move the CSC to Solent and I'll apply!
    
    Keith.

    When someone leaves that doesn't automatically mean that we need a
    replacement.  We must first assess the groups requirments.  Maybe we
    can become a more efficient and streamlined workforce, enabling us to
    invest the genius of new service personel in other newer areas.
    
    :-)                                                            
    
    Chris
    PS. I'm probably one of the few not looking to leave, but I would like
        to see some more people.  Today's coffee round has gone down to 2
        (down 6 on this time last year)
    

>     When someone leaves that doesn't automatically mean that we need a
>    replacement.

No, but after a certain number you probably do if you still want 
to have any business coming in. 

>    It's just as bad in the field!

It's probably easier to argue you can only be on one customer site at
a time... (though I dunno thinking about it I can believe you could be 
asked, just on Tuesdays and Thursdays to be in more than two places 
at once. 

>    Move the CSC to Solent and I'll apply!

It'd be a lonely job I think... 
 

    
    It's rather quiet in this note at the moment.
    
    No sign of the decoraters at Viables. 
    
    Anyone got any news or even a good rumour ??
    

    My guess at the probable answer...
    
    "...the OCC and OSS functions in Viables will not be moving to Reading. 
     Work is still being done on whether we should stay in Viables and 
     refurbish, move to Crescent or find another building in
     Basingstoke..."
    
    Actually I heard some rumour (and it was a rumour) that the Cresent is too 
    small for us.
    
    
    Chris
    

  >No sign of the decoraters at Viables. 
   

There was a bag of new ceilings tiles by the loos in G2 
when I came in this morning - maybe we are being refurbished. 

 
 >    Actually I heard some rumour (and it was a rumour) that the Cresent is too 
 >   small for us.
 

I heard that rumour too. 

And that Wimgrove house would be ok except that it's only got about 
60 parking spaces (not that I'd mind that - it's walkable from my place :-) 

and the one that access to DEC park is getting better with a new slip road 
and a multistorey car park so it might well be back on the list of possibilities. 

With the new  re-jig of MCS haven't we now lost all the people who 
said we weren't going to Reading?

    And all the people who said that would leave if we moved to Reading as
    well.
    
    Trev.

    
    
    I heard a rumour that Basingstoke was to be abandoned for a new
    location, and completely new set up in the Birmingham/Warrington area.

Re .-1

We've got a nice empty building in Warrington, 

And it's about the right size for a CSC too! funny that!

Huw. :-)

    location, and completely new set up in the Birmingham/Warrington area.
                                                                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I take it you live in 'London/Bristol area ??

G

    If the plan to move to Reading was dropped, because the CSC would loose
    half its staff, then I hardly think that a move to Warrington is being
    considered.
    
    Perhaps you would like to quote your sources, or is this just a wild
    uncalculated guess, in an attempt to stir up some discussion?
    

    Hi,
    
    	But there's already a CSC in Warrington  !!!, be it the remains of
    the Northern CSC with just three of us left. However, you're more than
    welcome to move up here and join us!!!
    
    David

    I heard a rumour that Reading was back on the cards too.
    
    This rumour nonsense has been going since last September now.  Almost a
    year of rumours with little visible substance.
    
    I'm just going to wait and see what happens.  I hope Digital stay local
    as that is a major perk (watching Neighbours at lunch :-)).  I would
    not move from the south now as I enjoy it here and thanks to Digital I
    now have MCSE so finding alternative employment shouldn't be tooooo
    hard - although I would prefer to stay here, working with all the fine
    people at the CSC - Both of them :-}
    
    Surely someone knows what's going on, how long does it take to make
    some decisions and communicate them through the correct channels ?
    
    
    Amazed of Bazingstoke.

>But there's already a CSC in Warrington  !!!

I'm sure Phil'd get claustrophobic if the rest of the unix group 
came and joined him though... 

>Title:  What about Dublin ? that's nice & new...

Now that I'd consider a transfer for :-) 
 
  
>Surely someone knows what's going on, 
>how long does it take to make some decisions 
>and communicate them through the correct channels ?
 
Surely working in the CSC you know the answers to that are
1) that's proprietary information I'm afraid
2) how longs a piece of string
3) I'm sorry that's a comms issue, I'll route you up there but
they're very busy lately... 

    
    
    
    Funny how people still consider themslves to be the centre of the
    universe, and of all importance, just because they work at the CSC.
    
    I expect that many people who worked at the Solent, Leatherhead,
    Newmarket, we could go on...also felt the same when their buildings
    were closed and re-located. 
    
    In my opinion, people are relaceable, and your foolish if you think
    your not. 
    
    Don't be suprised if the CSC is not in Basingstoke by the 2000.
    
    	
    Regards
    
    	Ian  (10 years at the CSC)
    

    >>In my opinion, people are relaceable
    
    Are things so uncertain that some people are coming apart at the
    "seams" with worry?
    
    
    
    			
    				Stretch.

    I thought it was someone taking the "p" out of the people 
    in the CSC :-)
    
    Jc
    

    
    
    Thanks lads...
    
    	Spilling was never my great strongth
    
    
    	However, It is probable that the 'move' decision will wait until 
    	the Fiscal results have been posted. I seem to remember that a
    	high-level decision was being considered (for approval) or somthing
    	like that, some time back.
    
    	At least with the other recent closures, decisions were made
    	swiftly and carried out. It can't be much fun.
    
    	Ian

> Funny how people still consider themslves to be the centre of
>the universe, and of all importance, just because they work at
>the CSC.
 
Who here said that?

>..also felt the same when their buildings
>    were closed and re-located. 

and I remember reading notes about the solent closing etc etc
so what's the big deal about us talking about this place closing,
the only thing that makes us any different is that this has been
up in the air for heavens knows how long and it keeps coming up
again and again... 

>In my opinion, people are relaceable, and your foolish if you
>think your not. 

I don't think anyone thinks that, but the company seems to be
well aware that it would cost it more to replace everyone here
than it would to keep us, so far, otherwise they would have moved
us to DEC park (and let everyone quit) long before now. 

When people say they will leave if we go to a different office
they *aren't* threatening or trying blackmail - they're being
honest.  

People are leaving all the time in this building because the
skills gained here are valued in the outside world too.  

The uncertainty of the future of the location here is just adding
to the incentive for people to leave. 

The "we'll leave if you move us to Reading" is in many cases
because it would make it an hours commute - something most people
don't want, but with no choice for an hours commute those living
in Basingstoke could as easily work in London and often get at
least half as much again as they're paid here.   

People leaving for double the salary at least isn't unusual.     

>Don't be suprised if the CSC is not in Basingstoke by the 2000.

Wouldn't be at all - especially since half the leases on
Basingstoke buildings run out just after then. 

Then again it also wouldn't suprise me if come the year 2000 the
CSC is still in Viables with uncertainty about where we'll be
relocated to when the lease runs out. 

 

    Anyone feel like quashing any of these rumours ?
    
    Chris.
    PS. I agree with Jo, no-one here thinks that the CSC is centre of the 
    	universe, more like the restaraunt at the end of the universe :-)
    

    
                         
    I agree with Chris.
    
    Won't someone just be honest for once and at least 
    just advise the status of the CSC move,
    someone somewhere must know the current status.
    
    a) is it still under review ?
    b) has it been canned ?
    
    I also agree the CSC is by no means the centre of
    the universe.
    
    Cheers
    Lawrence

>    a) is it still under review ?
>    b) has it been canned ?


I asked a manager and was told it was still under review. 

The various digital offices held in this area are 
unsuitable as is for various reasons and because we have two on
standby we're not allowed any more, Reading is technically
preferable but so far as having to rerecruit half the staff
in a similar area where digital already has not too brilliant a
reputation (remember we *used to be* the 2nd largest employer in
Reading after only the borough council until we made everyone
redundant). 

I guess it might get pushed to resolution if and when we get a
new manager for the csc :-)