Conference quark::human_relations-v1

    I don't understand.  What sort of 'rituals' are bothering you so?
    
    bs

    I suspect it's something along the lines of:
    
    Undressing.  Remove wallet from pocket.  Empty out one front pocket.
    Arrange items in certain places on dresser.  First, set keys in
    proper place.  Then arrange change in little piles (pennies first)
    and set piles in proper places.  Finish arranging other items in
    proper places in proper order.  Empty out other pocket.  Pat pockets
    twice.  Sit down in specific chair.  Untie left shoe by pulling
    both shoestrings so that they stay equally long.  Remove shoe, put
    in its proper place, pointing the right way.  Fold laces neatly
    into shoe.  Remove left sock by peeling it down.  And so on.
    
    The differences between ritual and habit are:
    
    1) attention to detail.  Everything must be done *exactly*.
    2) compulsive nature.  If you're tired, you might bypass your usual
    habit and slip off your shoes without untying them.  If you're tired,
    you cannot bypass your ritual without feeling uncomfortable.

    
    I can see how such detail might be annoying but have you stopped to
    think why it is bothering you. From my own experience I feel you
    can choose to let actions bother you as much as you can decide
    to let them roll off of you. My ex had lots of habits/quirks/rituals
    that bothered me. Some were trivial others were, to my thinking,
    quite unnecessary/time consuming and useless. The more I watched
    him the more these things anoyed me. He didn't see them as anything
    more than "just things" that he did. He couln't understand why 
    I was making a big deal out of them. 
    
    Why was I bothered by them? So what I did was one by one, when 
    I'd see him doing something that anoyed me I stopped myself and
    think, this action has no consequences to me, I'll just leave
    it be. And before I knew it I was able to ignore those habits. After
    a while I could still see them but they were no longer causing me
    stress.
    
    If your SO is aware of what you see as rituals and he does not find
    them annoying, then let them be. If he has expressed an awareness
    that they may be compulsions or that he is annoyed by them then that 
    is a different area and professional help might be in order for him.

    Gail

    
    Thanks for your responses - they're all helping me to see the problem
    from different angles.
    
    Re: the reason why they bother me
    
    I do manage to ignore most of them - the only ones that really annoy
    me still are grooming rituals (it can take over 90 minutes to shower
    and get into a pair of jeans to go down the shops) - this bugs me
    as we are invariably late for any appointment as a couple and I
    have always been quite proud of my timekeeping (my hangup I guess!).
    
    The other bug is sleeping rituals. Getting ready to go bed takes
    43mins (almost exactly) and, as it's quite noisy, I am losing sleep
    which makes me crabby. It also doesn't help your love life when
    you can't cuddle your lovely fella in his sexy boxer shorts 'cos
    they've got to be taken off, folded properly and put away before
    he'll accept any advances! (just as an example)
    
    Still, I'll look to myself in future as well as looking at my man.
    
    Any more advice?
    
    Abigail
    

    Regarding the lateness issue:
    
    First, make sure you're in the clear.  Are you giving him enough
    warning of commitments?  You know how long it takes him to get ready,
    are you telling him early enough so he HAS this time?  (How many
    men have had to do this for women, and yet we think it's ridiculous
    for MEN to take so long to shower and dress?  Be glad he doesn't
    do his nails, too....)
    
    Discuss the issue with him.  Tell him how much it bothers you.
    Then tell him you won't keep being late and, the next time you
    have a commitment, *you* won't be late even if it means he is
    not with you.
    
    Give him warning of a commitment, including the time you expect
    to leave.  Tell him that at that time, your car will pull out
    of the driveway, and it will contain either you, or both you
    and him.  Be prepared to leave without him.

    This, of course, should be a last resort.  But it was used on me
    when I was a child, and it worked.  Making someone else late is
    childish behavior, unless there's good reason.  Habitually making
    someone else late indicates there's not a good reason.

    As for the bedtime ritual, again, discussion of how YOU feel, and
    how it's interfering with your love-life, might be useful.  Have
    you tried this?
    
    --Louise

    Maybe you could help him remove and fold those shorts?
    
    --bonnie

    Just to make a point: Rip his shorts off!!!!!!
    
    (geez, did I just say That???) 
    
    Ken

    re -1
    
    Yeah, and throw them in a heap in the corner of the room, and make
    sure they stay there all night !
    
    Steve

    
    	I've just read that washing rituals are a form of compulsive
    behavior. Again, this is an "acting out" of some kind of unexpressed
    witheld emotion. What do you mean by "When the going gets tough"?
    This could be as simple as an identity belief that "Real men dont
    have problems with their line of work" if "the going" happens to
    be a work related issue. So, instead of just expressing "Gee hon,
    I'm having a real tough time at work - in fact I'm not really sure
    if I'm gonna make it" (with it's implicate admission of "I'm not a 
    real man"), he instead compensates with compulsive behavior.
    	
    	What you can do is;
    
    	1. Find out what "the going" is, exactly.
    	2. Find out what his beliefs are, with respect to being a man.
    	3. Assure him that, he's very much of a "real man" in your eyes,
    	   despite the fact that he doesnt see himself "meeting" some
    	   (very likely ridiculous - but dont tell him *that* right
           now) requirement. By giving your support, he'll eventually
    	   realize it on his own. "Hmmmm... This *is* Bullsh*t!"
    
    	Example:
    
    	1. Something mechanical is broken.
    	2. "Real men" are all mechanics and able to fix anything.
    	3. It's just as "manly" a procedure to call in an expert,
    	   get the job done, as it is to try and fix it yourself.
            
    	Joe Jas

    
    We've had a breakthrough!
    
    After considering all the thoughtful responses to this note I put
    together an approach plan to this.....
    
    1) I booked a "slot" with him over (a specially created) supper
    on the weekend. I gently hinted at broadly what I wanted to discuss
    so it wouldn't come as a shock.
    
    Basically, we agreed that *at anytime* he can come to me and say
    "I want a cuddle because I'm scared/worried/nervous about...." and
    I committed that I would *never* turn him away. This includes demands
    in the middle of the night (he wakes me up), the occasional panic
    lunch, and he's also had a soggy cuddle so far when I was in the
    bath at the time......we talked around the idea that words like
    "scared" and "upset" were not un-macho.....
    
    I'm willing to give a cuddle anytime for ever but I must admit that
    I'm hoping that the midnight wake-ups will diminish a bit over time....
    
    After this happenned, a fragment of the bedtime ritual seems to
    have disappeared! So I hope I'm on the right track....
    
    2) Re: the boxer shorts
    
    I blushingly explained to him that men sleeping in boxer shorts
    is blazingly sexy. And I also bought him some new ones. This is
    solving part of the problem - he now only spends ten minutes deciding
    which ones to wear to bed! 
    
    3) Timekeeping
    
    No progress here yet, but I'm hoping there will be a knock-on effect
    on this ritual if he's starting to let go of the bed-time one....
    and I do make sure that I've told him when we're due to be somewhere.
    Truthfully, I don't have the nerve to try the "deadline" tactic
    yet - let's be gentle on the guy for a while ("more flies caught
    with sugar than vinegar"?)
    
    Ongoing ideas still welcome though.....
                                      
    Abigail
    
    
    

    Sounds like you handled that one very well! 
    
    But I wouldn't count on changing the timetable problem -- my
    in-laws have been married 49 years and they still can't manage to
    get ready at the same time.... 
    
    --bonnie

    Re timetables: There's always the popular technique of telling him
    that you're due somewhere a good half-hour or hour before you actually
    are. (To lend verisimilitude, you should probably utter a few "Please
    hurry, dear, we don't want to be late" remarks!)
    
    -b

    Moving the (alleged) required arrival time may work a few times,
    but it might have the unfortunate long-term side effect of creating
    distrust.