Conference noted::bicycle

    Last time I did it I had a 32 in back and a 24 in front.  Of course, I
    didn't race and wasn't into severe pain.  It doesn't matter much, the
    pain's about the same whether you use a 26 or 28.  the 26 should help
    you keep warm, too.
    
    This is about as helpful as the letter to Pres Ford that said, "I think
    you're half right and half wrong."  (After he pardoned RMN.)
    
    As for: "ps...I want to get out of this the cheapest way possible."
    Walk :-) :-) :-)
    
    ed

	I think the Mt. W road AVERAGES 12% or so - the steepest is
	about 20%.  I've never ridden it but I've driven it a couple
	of times.  Once you start up, it goes up for 7.5 miles - there
	are NO flat places to get any sort of a break.

	Good luck!

	chris

    If you swap your 42-tooth chainring for a 39, you can probably get
    away with 12-24 in back.  This is nice, because you don't have to
    buy a 26-tooth sprocket that you'll almost never use.  Then when
    you go back to 12-20, you've got a useful 39/42 option for
    hilly/less-hilly "normal" races, as well as the chance to go
    42/12-24 when it's convenient.  
    
    Besides, a 26-tooth sprocket makes you look like a wimp....

    Jim Pammer ... the same Jim Pammer that won the 2-day citizen stage
    race "Mont Hope Les Classique" this year?
    
    If so ... I've seen how you climb - a straightblock should be no
    problem !
    
    Seriously; I'm also going to be doing the Mt Washington climb for
    the first time. I'm going with 39t chainring on the front, and
    26-28-30-32-34 big bad cogs on the rear (I have D.A. cassette hubs,
    and I'm using a Shimano Deore deurailler). My teammate Dan Massucco
    is of the same climbing ability as you, and he plans to use a 39t
    chainring, with 28-30-32 cogs on the rear. I suspect that he'll
    use mainly his 28 and 30. If you are the Jim I think you are,
    then I know Dan is of roughly equal ability because Dan & I raced
    the Mont Hope race, and he climbed beside you (remember you two
    tried a breakaway, but Dan was spunout in his 13t cog?).
    
    Yesterday Dan and I put our gearing to the test by doing 4 repeats
    up Pack Monadnock access road. It's 12% average grade, about 1.3
    mi long, and has a 20+% grade 'wall' at the finish ... very similar
    to Mt Washington. We both climbed in 39 x 28 with no problem. I
    think a 39 x 26 would be tough but dooable for Pack Monadnock. I
    suspect that a 42x26 for Mt Washington will kill you on the steepest
    sections, especially if there's wind - which there mostly is ...
    I wouldn't recommend it; I'd suggest at least getting a 39t chainring
    if you're stuck with the 26 in the rear.
    
    BTW - if you don't have a cassette hub, you can 'make' your own
    freewheel like Dan did. He just used chain whips to take apart a
    freewheel, and make his custom freewheel by using cogs that he bought.
    
    Good luck!                                                            
    
    Mark                                                           
    
    

    If you have a mountain bike, use the triple crank off of that. 
    I have 170mm and 175mm with 26x36x46 teeth.  I'm not sure which
    crank set I will be using until I try them out.  I use Ultegra
    cassettes and have all the cogs from 12 teeth to 34.  
      On Wednesday I will be going to Mt. Sugarloaf in Sunderland Ma.
    This mountain is about 1 mile long averaging 11% with the last 50
    yards at 23%.  I will be trying all the possible combinations to
    find what I like best.  I tend to be a sit down climber that only
    stands up to stretch the legs or get the extra power.  I frequently
    ride in the berkshires with 53x40 and 13-23 but Mt. Washington is
    not the average berkshire hill.
    
    						Norm

    Is this climb still open?  Are details posted anywhere?  _KB

    My best climb up Mt. Washington was 10 years ago (14th place Cat
    I-II).  In those days I was a power climber, rather than sit-and-spin.
    I used a 14-16-20-22-24-26.  If you're going to use a 26, the key
    is to have a couple of other gears that are almost as low, like
    42-22 and 42-24.  These will get you up the first half, to the
    treeline, provided that you have enough strength and endurance.
    Save the 26 for the second half, which has the steepest grades and
    is exposed to the wind.
    
    The first hundred yards or so is flat, so start in a 52-16 (or similar)
    and make believe you're in a criterium.  Getting a jump on the other
    people in your start group can be demoralizing to them -- but get
    onto the small CR as soon as the road starts going up.
    
    Another key to doing well in this race is a lo-o-o-n-g warmup. 
    I did a 14 mile spin, mostly in a 42-22, 42-24 starting a little
    north of North Conway and pedalling all the way to the start.
    
    Since we've got seven speeds nowadays, you might want to consider
    something like a 14-16-20-22-24-26-28.  If you can only get a 
    12 or a 13 for your outside cog, don't worry--it's only there to
    hold the other cogs on.  Believe me, this is one race where you
    won't be using it!
    
    Good look--and why don't you let us know what you decide on, and
    how you do?
    
    Justin

    I tried the mountain crank on my road bike, but the bolt heads on
    the inside ring came just a little too close to the carbin fiber for
    me.  So I put the 53x40 back on.  In the rear I have decided to
    go with 19-32.  This way I can "sit and spin" and also stand up.
    
    						Norm

    The 42x26 should get you by, but others' suggestion of a 39
    in front isn't bad.  My biggest problem climbing Mt. Washington
    was the mud from snow-runoff on the unasphalted sections.
    (Is the road still like this?)  If your gearing isn't low
    enough, you can't get traction, and so it doesn't matter how
    strong/tough you are.
    
    Have fun!  It's a nice climb, with good views.
    
    -john

    Sr men:        Sr Women         1st Jr Male: 1:16.42
    1	1:10.16    1   1:22.48
    2	1:10.47    2   1:28.55      1st Master Male: 1:11.32 (4th overall!!)
    3	1:10.55    3   1:29:00
    4	1:11.47    4   1:33.44      1st Vet male: 1:14.12
    5	1:11.51    5   1:39.41
                                                         
    These are the only results I copied down.
    
    Course record is 57+ minutes set 6 years ago I think.
    
    Mark
    

    Well ... I completed my first "race" up Mt Washington; I survived!
    
    The weather held out and was a good as it probably ever gets in
    Sept. There was very little wind (10mph or less), no rain - though
    it was forecasted to rain - and warm.
    
    I was overdressed in my polypro long sleeve shirt, bike shirt, tights,
    glove liners, ... I was SOOOoooo hot climbing, but I left the stuff
    on in case it got cooler up top (it did, but not too much).
    
    I climbed the entire ride in a 39t chainring and 34t cog on the
    rear. I planned to use the 26 and 30 cogs ... but it's so steep
    and long that I couldn't get out of the 34! I climbed at my own
    pace, didn't care who passed me or who I passed, and just tried
    to pace myself so I could finish without stopping. I stayed seated
    for the entire climb, standing only to stretch my legs occasionally,
    and on the final 23% final 50 foot climb. 
    
    I can't even start to describe what this climb was like, other than
    that it's the hardest biking I've ever done. It's just so steep
    and so long ... but the emotional high of finishing after such a
    grueling climb made it all worth it.
    
    I finished in 1:31.17, 94th out of 286.
    
    Mark
    

     Hey Mark, I didn't see you there. Good run, though. I defintely
    got all "jeeped-up" for trying it next year. I was impressed with
    everyone. There was a tandem (man & woman) and (get this) a unicycle.
    I passed him walking at about the 4000ft. mark as I was leaving.
    
     I spoke with the guy who won. This guy had just gotten back from
    a cross country ride two weeks ago. He rode this old, unkept touring
    bike that still had the rack on the back, pump and he said he had
    just pulled the light off! He's from Salem, N.H. and just decided
    to do "a spur of the moment" entry. He wore sweatpants, T-shirt,
    bandana and these home-made sandle type shoes that were made from
    an old pair of sneaker-riding shoes. It looked a little like the
    guy was fresh from Nazereth with his full beard and all. It really
    struck a point home for me around how important the "motor" really
    is! Given the amount of high-priced equipment and configurations
    that were there. Oh yeah, he ran 700 x 1 5/8" "mudders" :-) on the
    thing too. Real nice guy. The press came over while we were talking
    and took his picture and a picture of his feet! It really was un-
    believable.
    
     We saw everything from people running 42 & 14x26's to a 32 chainring
    and 34 cog set-up. Funny, but effective (according to the owner).
    
     Chip

    For all who are wondering...I decided to do the Twin State Classic.
    Saturday was the Sunapee RR. I won that.  Sunday was a Crit in White
    River Jnct.,VT.....20 of the most unsafe laps that I have ever ridden
    in my pathetic life!  I fell in the 8th lap.  Got up.  Chased and
    caught the leaders again.  I decided to show some salt, so I took
    a flyer with 8 laps to go.  I had about 75-100 meters on the peleton
    until I realized that I had a flat...with 2 laps to go!!  I couldn't
    corner real fast...fishtail city.  One rider broke free at the last
    200 meters or so and I lost the matched sprint for the win.  Ahhh
    well, but I took home all the primes.
    
    You guys, thanks for all the imput.  Next year I think that I'll
    ride with at least a 39-26.  It sounded as though I didn't have
    a chance with the son of God riding like the devil up the hill!!!
    
    Jim

    Finished the Mount Washington hill climb yesterday and boy did I
    surprise myself.  After being told it would take me 3 hours to drive
    there (I gave myself an hour buffer) it took me 4 hours.  My support
    vehicle was not there so I had no way to get down.  You cannot ride
    the bike back down.  I finally found a ride with the eventual winners
    father.  So this left me with about 5 minutes to warm up.  Things
    were not looking good and my hopes were not high.  My original plan
    was to try to break 1 1/2 hours.  I just did not" feel good" about
    the race.  I decided that since I had never been up the mountain
    (even in a car) I would simply go for survival and say that I did
    it.  When we started everyone was bunched together so I moved to
    the front.  I did not want to be in a pack where everyone was
    constantly standing up and sitting down.  I linked up with a guy
    from Canada and rode beside him for about half of the race before
    he dropped me.  We had been averaging about 6-7 miles an hour.
    I was still feeling pretty good so I decided to push myself.  I
    found myself passing alot of the elite riders who had started out
    ahead of our group (3 were lying on their back in the middle of
    the road).  This did alot to boost my confidence.  Then I realized
    that almost nobody had passed me.  My goal from there became to
    pass as many riders as I could and not allow anyone to pass me. 
    It was a game and it took my mind off my burning lungs.  When I
    got to a flat spot near the top someone told me there was only 3/4
    of a mile to go.  I found enough leg for two more gears and passed
    2 more people before I hit the 23% grade at the end of the race.
    I had been running a granny of 40 front and 30 rear for most of
    the race and I now felt like I was not moving.  As I slowly climbed
    the last 50 yards I remember hitting a little pebble with my rear
    wheel.  My left pedal dropped out from under me as the rear wheel
    spun.  All I could think of was don't fall over after all this.
    I stayed up rounded the corner and crossed the line.  When I looked
    at my computer I couldn't believe it.  1:19.  I later found out
    I had finished 27th out of 300 some odd riders.  The winning time
    was 1:10:?.   Maybe next year I will grow a beard,put Look cleats
    on my duegi sandals and ride a Motobecane Gran touring bike.  I
    wouldn't want to be exactly like the winner.
    
    						Norm

    RE: .14 That flat spot 3/4 mi from the top has a 5% grade.  Good job!!!
    ed

    
    Is it really 23%?  I don't recall anything that hard... 
    
    Is this like the 33% grade some magazine attributed to NC highway 128?
    
    (I suppose it must be 23%, judging from the descriptions here, but...)
    
    -john

    re: .16, I have usually seen it referred to as 20%, including in the
    article in Bicycling a few years ago.  With the colder weather the
    frost heaves get steeper though. :-)  (I say, remembering that John
    made the assault in October when the so called more sane cyclists have
    taken to indoor training.)
    
    Just think, John, we are among the small group of cyclists
    who have ridden down the mountain.
    
    ed

    
    Yes, and riding down Mt. Washington was half the fun!  :-)
    I hosed the bike off at the bottom of the mountain, at the
    toll-hut (?).
    
    -john

     The literature claimed a 22% incline for the last 100yds., but
    what's a 1% when you've coughed up your lungs and your legs have
    gone south for the winter!  ;-)
    
     I'll bet it seemed like pedaling up the side of a building after
    8 miles.
    
      Chip

     BTW, I wanted to ask the fearless individuals that braved the assualt
    on the rock whether they noticed uncomfortability with the thinner
    oxygen. Was it extremely noticeable (after all you guys were at
    6288ft!)? At what point do think it began have an effect?
    
      Just curious....
    
                       Chip

    I never felt that thinner air was a problem at any time while climbing
    that mountain.  I was however gasping for breath at the end of each of
    my 3 assaults, I just think I would have been gasping anyway.
    
    ed

    I never noticed a difference in the air.  The thought never even
    entered my mind until I just read it.
    
    						Norm

    No, I never noticed the 'thin air' either.
    
    I finished the hillclimb (my first) in 1:31 for around 94th place.
    Believe me, after the first mile I didn't care what place I was,
    who passed me, or who I passed ... I just wanted to finish without
    stopping. 
    
    The real dilema for me was how to pace myself since I've never
    climbed anything that steep & long. I took it sort of slow (in my
    39 x 34!) so that I wouldn't blow up. 
    
    My teammate Dan Massucco decided to "race" it (rather than just
    "make" it) ... but he wasn't concerned with the other riders. It
    seems that he wanted to break his dad's PR up the mountain. His
    dad (Art Massucco) did a 1:16:12 in the early 1980's when he was 
    in his 40's! Art told Dan that if Dan broke his best time, then
    he would train for one more ride up Washington. What was Dan's time
    this year ..... 1:16:38 !!!  26 seconds slower than dad! 
    Dan's time put him in 15th place overall. He used a 39 x 32 gear.
                                                           
    Mark
    

From my rock climbing days, I remember reading that most people don't notice 
the effects of thinner air until they get above 10000 ft.  I've never noticed 
any difference when hiking up Mt Washington, which I've done a couple of 
times.

Kevin

    I've noticed in Denver, with is over 5200 feet or so.  All things
    being equal...a person with more muscle mass would feel it more
    than a "stick man".  More O2 is need for more muscles.
                       
    On the average, how much time is spent climbing over the 5000 ft?
    I'm a physiologist, and I'll see what I can find for us.
    
    Jim

    How high is Pat's Peak? I was riding with Kathy Riggert today and
    she told me that she almost passed out after finishing the Pat's
    Peak hillclimb. She mentioned that the people at the finish gave
    everyone oxygen after finishing. Sounds like everyone was suffered
    in that race ... anyone know how high it is?
    
    Mark

    
    Marked effects are certainly observable at 10,000 ft.  I remember
    riding in a car up Mt. Evans, and feeling woozy at/before the peak.
    (When I years later *biked* up Mt. Evans, I didn't have any such
    problem, but had become acclimated - this was after 1� weeks of 
    criss-crossing the Continental Divide.)
    
    However, I also seemed short of breath (not pre-acclimated) already
    at 8000-foot levels climbing Haleakala.  And sometimes seem slightly
    oxygen-poor even at 5000 feet (rolling up/down) on the Blue Ridge
    Parkway.  So I don't know.  Clearly a lot depends on conditioning
    and acclimatization, but I think even above 5000 feet there's an
    effect.
    		-john

    The one time I've been high, over a 6800' pass, I felt absolutely awful
    on the way down. However I was suffering from mild exposure at the
    time so that couldn't have helped. What I'm saying is that I agree with
    John.
    
    
    Rod

    I live and train in Colorado Springs. The city elevation is 6035ft.
    Because I have been racing here for 4 years I don't notice much of a 
    difference. I do enjoy racing at lower elevations. The natural blood 
    boosting is great. Most of the teams that raced here during the 1986
    Worlds at the Air Force Academy, about 7000ft, did come here early
    and even trained at 9000 or 10000 ft to get use to the thin air. I race
    the Drurango to Silverton road race here this year which crosses over 
    two 11,000ft passes, and I must admit, I definitely noticed the
    difference. The crazy thing was racing in the middle of the summer
    and looking at the side of the road and seeing snow. I would have to 
    say that the level of elevation that effects anyone depends on where you 
    train.
                                          

    Yeah, that would definitly have an impact on acclimation.  Here
    are some other factors to keep in mind:
    
    - Body compostion (% fat and lean body weight) of the individual
    - Iron levels in blood (iron is a major ingredient in hemoglobin,
       which is what your red blood cells need in order to carry oxygen.)
    - Current fitness level
    - intensity of activity at altitude
    
    A lot of other variables involved....Let me try to make it simple:
    
    I'm going to be racing at altitude (5000-10,000 since I'm from NH).
    My % body fat is 7% with approx. 155 lbs of lean body weight. (some
    one with a lower leann body weight with the small oxygen intake
    levels as me would have the advantage since he has to carry oxygen
    to less muscle cells.)  My fitness level: My predicted oxygen intake
    levels at a maximal exercise bout is approx. 75 ml/kg/min.  Just
    to put this is perspective, average oxygen intake levels for the
    DECies that I've been testing is approx. 42 for males.  The level
    of intensity of the activity:  Well, we're bike racing...70-95%
    of max.
    
    I probably would start to feel the effects of acidtosis (oxygen
    poor blood) at about 5-6000 feet.  Take into account all this factors.
    Anaerobic exercise would NOT be effect.  In Mexico City there were
    no world records set in an event that lasted more than 2 1/2 minutes.
    One tip of advice....if you havve a race at altitude and your are
    from lower elevations, don't do any training at that altitude if
    you haven't had time to acclimate.  Just race as hard as you can
    in your "comfort" zone.  This will shock your body and you won't
    feel the effect of thin-air until the 2nd or 3rd day.
    
    Acclimation: count on at least 1-2 weeks for total acclimation.
    
    Jim