Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    does the brochure say whether they have real 4 wheel drive as per the
    DTM entries ?
    
    G.

    i) Does it have that outrageously sexy wide-arch kit on it?
    
    ii) I'm sure the Touring Cars don't have a CD player ;-)
    
    Cheers,
    Dan
    

    >> white BBS alloy wheels
    
    Hmm, what would/do these look like? Are they a bit Sharonesque? 

    
    
    Please post the quote in here as I would be interested to see it.
    
    Richards

Lowered suspension?!  If mine was any lower, it'd be scraping along
the ground...

Chris.

re .1 .2. .3


It looks like it's the standard 4 Wheel drive as per the turbo as it
doesn't say any different.
I guess that H U G E wheel arch kit isn't on there either, just the
rear spoiler.
I didn't think the touring cars had CD players meself, rather a
3 wave band analogue radio!
In the standard Calibra brochure there's a picture at the back of
a touring car with the white wheels, they look ok although the
angle isn't brill.

I've sent the quote off anyway. The only option available for the DTM's
is air conditioning which cost an extra 800 pound (inc VAT).

Si

    
    So, I'm a little lost here, there's a 4WD/V6 Calibra with lowered 
    sports suspension?
    
    Or is it just a bog standard car (ie FWD) with lowered suspension and 
    some boy-racer bits?
    
    Mark

The car is available in all engine guises with the rear spoiler,
CD  multichanger etc.....

    Simon,
    
    When you get it, can I borrow it when you go on Holiday ?
    
    Chris

    Dear all,
    
    
    If previous Calibra special edition quotes are to go by then the DTM
    should represent good value. I'm currently driving a SE2 (yes, the
    yellow one...) and this was cheaper than the standard 16v.
    
    
    Regards,
    
    
    Dean.
    
    

    Dean,
    
    pity it dosn't go round corners.... just like Andy Robb's really...
    
    get a REAL drivers car next time...
    
    not a "custard cream" tart ( or should I say cake!! )
    
    - MARK$dosn't$want$a$crapalier -

    And pray tell what do you drive? ;-)

re .9 We'll have to see about that Chris! Heavens know wot you'd get up
to in it?

re .10 I dunno Dean, you always did go for the brighter things in life!
Matches your hair colour anyway!

Si

� The car is available in all engine guises with the rear spoiler,
� CD  multichanger etc.....
    
    But not in 4WD, except for the turbo? Is that right?
    
    Mark

    Mark,
    
    The guy who sits behind me thinks they will do a 4WD V6 or something
    similiar in the near future.
    
    Greg

re .14 your spot on

Si

>re .14 your spot on
        ^^^^
oh dear, etc.

Chris.

    I thought Laurie would be on that like a shot :-)
    
    Royston

    Rats! Missed it!

    ref .12
    
    A "monks" car... if you remember the advert
    
    A renault 19  16V... if you don't 
    
    And it goes round corners like the proverbial off a stick... and you
    poor calibra drivers will be in the hedge (backwards) first !!! not
    that I drive that fast, but I'm sure you all know what I mean ???
    
    - Mark -  

    re .20
    
    forgot all the smiles :::***)))) that I get when I drive it :::***)))
    
    :::***))) :::***)))
    
    - MARK - :::**)))

    >>A "monks" car... if you remember the advert
         ^^^^^
    
    Oh dear.
    
    Phil Gill.

    >>And it goes round corners like the proverbial off a stick...
    
    Surely that would mean it slips and slides all over the place?!
    
    Never mind, I know what you meant ;-). Chris King tried on of those
    things out, and we went for a little pootle. Amazing engine for a
    1.7... but then the gearbox ratios seemed close anyway. Niceish car, I
    suppose, but not my cup of tea. Better than a Calibra anyway ;-)

    
    re:.20
    
    Dan (Howell), remember the R19 16v we had that time?!!  Bit too 
    unbalanced at the back end under adverse conditions if I remember
    correctly...have to say I thought the Citroen ZX handled better,
    although I suppose it's personal taste!
    
    Chris.

    
    Bugger...clashed again!
    
    C.

    :-)
    
    Yup, though I've never been in a ZX. Been told they handle *very* well,
    though... as do most Citreons ?

    There speaks a man who's obviously never driven a BX.
    
    Laurie.

    
    Indeed.  "Thinnest tyres we can get away with" must have been the
    specification briefing for the BX.
    
    Chris.

    
    The BX I drove was very good. It was a GTi, though.
    
    Mark 

    I was going to say, I've been in a BX GTi, and impressed I was. Not
    just with the handling, but the general ride... very impressive.

    One of the worst cars I've ever driven. Bloody awful things...
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    And you *have* driven an Escort.... blimey, they must be bad!

                                                           
    isn't all this handling stuff a bit relative though ? I'm quite willing
    to accept that a R19 16v handles better than a Calibra whateva, but
    we're only comparing FWD cars - compared to a well set up RWD, then I
    don't think any FWD handles particularly well....
    
    Graham                                                  
    
    (I'll just keep my head down for a day or two shall I ?)

    Nope, sounds good to me Graham.
    
    Dan$RWD_forever!

    The only BX GTi I knew of burst into flames as the guy was driving it
    through Leeds.
    
    Greg
    

    Hmmm, lovely. Probably though it was a Westfield SEiGHT or something
    :-)
    
    (They had a habit of spitting fire out the 4 twin-choke Dellorto's)
    
    P.S. Now *that's* a handling car !

    ref .24
    
    the back will let go but only if you are stupid/reckless on the queens
    highways, or make a mistake.... dunno about ZX, not driven one.
    
    as for rwd... never had one on a long term basis so wouldn't like to
    comment, but if one of you want to let me have yours (car) for a while
    I could always try to evaluate it for you ??? :*))
    
    - MARK -
    

    
  >>  (They had a habit of spitting fire out the 4 twin-choke Dellorto's)
    
    while we're sort of on the subject, does anybody need a pair Weber
    40DCOE's ? brand new boxed with filters, cables and an inlet manifold
    for a Manta
    
    G.

    
    re:.37
    
    >>the back will let go but only if you are stupid/reckless on the
    >>queens highways, or make a mistake....
    
    I was just speculating what would probably happen you understand, none
    of it really happened....!
    
    Chris.

    
    Ummmmm. A note saying that FWD cars don't handle and a note with parts
    from a Manta...from the same person?
    
    Need I say more... :^)
    
    Mark (Who's owned FWD and RWD cars, including a Manta, but NEVER an
    Escort!) 

    We're getting some serious ratholing here, now.
    
    Excellent - continue!
    
    >>A note saying that FWD cars don't handle and a note with parts
    >>from a Manta...from the same person?
    
    >>Need I say more... :^)
    
    Hahahahahaha! Maybe it's had all the suspension done up and stuff?
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    re RWD/Manta's :-
    
    	as far as can remeember the Manta 400 was never beaten by by a FWD
    car in a rally - od course they may have been 'handling better' but
    just not as quick ??
    
    G.

    
    The Manta 400 was indeed a remarkably successful RWD car (if a little
    late), but I think you'll find that in more recent years there are 
    occasions where 400s have been beaten by FWD cars (in fact, it'd be
    incredible if A 400 wasn't beaten by a FWD car SOMETIME in its heyday).
    
    However, the 400's an incredibly rare RWD Manta, which, I suspect
    wouldn't compare too well against the Renault Clio Maxi...
    
    Mark 
        

    does anybody have a quote for a DTM yet ???
    
    Picked up a Vauxhall price list last night so will post DTM
    varients/list price later, but off the top of my head only air con is
    an option and there are no 8V 2.0 varients.
    
    - MARK -
    

    
    Here we go, along with verbal quote from Lucy Marper at Carfleet
    
    model               interior  list price inc vat    Quote off Lucy
    
    DTM 2.0i  16V       cloth     18885.00              4483.00
                        leather   19735.00
    
    DTM V6 2.5i 24V     cloth     21020.00
                        leather   21870.00              5213.00
    
    DTM Turbo 4x4 2.0i  cloth   23565.00
                        leather 24415.00
    
    
    Too much for me.......
    
    - MARK -

    I may consider the 2.0 16V 136bhp or the 2.5 V6 24V 170bhp.
    
    Any appreciations on handling ? any experience with running these cars?
    
    Thanks in advance,		Patrick

    >>Any appreciations on handling ?
    
    After recent discussion, are you serious? ;-))
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    Re last
    
    I guess Patrick's question is 'Does the lowered sports suspension
    improve the handling?'. If so, I'd guess the answer is 'who knows!' as
    the cars don't seem to be around yet.
    
    Mark

    
    The main problem with Calibras is if you aren't careful with the
    accelerator when cornering the front end loses traction and you go
    straight on.  I can't see the lowered suspension helping this situation
    much, but the traction control on the V6 helps counter the sliding
    front end.
    
    Chris.

    Yes, this is the sort of info I need. I'll test drive a 115bhp car very
    soon but I'd like to hear from the panel anyway.

    
    The Calibra's basically nose heavy, so the car will understeer by
    nature. It doesn't need you to accelerate hard from a slow corner
    to provoke this, but often this is where it's most noticable, so I'm
    doubtful that traction control is really a total answer to the problem
    (although I've not driven a V6). I found that better tyres (than the
    standard Pirellis mine had) helped the low speed understeer (a help
    for the 'lesser' models without traction control). The car is, however,
    very stable in long sweeping bends.
    
    It also dislikes being thrown around. Sudden changes in direction are
    not its fort� (although if you get it right, it feels very rewarding).
    This MAY be helped by lowered suspension.
    
    However, this is all a bit unfair on the Calibra. It's not a sports
    car,it's a tourer and for long journies on motorways is excellent
    (except when it decides to break down... :^*( ).
    
    Mark

    >> doubtful that traction control is really a total answer to the
    >> problem (although I've not driven a V6)
    
    My mate has the V6 and he prefers to drive it with the traction control
    off, as he says it's more predictible.
    
    
    Greg
    

    Thanks Mark. Very helpful. Actually I'm not looking for a true sports
    car but rather for a nice quick family car (2 adults and a 13yr boy).
    
    Cheers,		Patrick
    
    PS: about understeer, how is the front antiroll bar ? could it be
    softened ? With FWD it's generally a good idea to control roll on the
    rear axle rather than on the front. Just a thought ...

    >> looking for a true sports car but rather for a nice quick family car
    >> (2 adults and a 13yr boy)
    
    I'd say the Calibra fits that mold quite nicely. Just remember to get
    locking wheel nuts ;^)
    

    .54�    I'd say the Calibra fits that mold quite nicely. Just remember to get
    .54�    locking wheel nuts ;^)
    
    Competition is Fiat Coup� 16V Turbo. Not bad either.

>    Mr Moderator, do we really need 4 different Calibra topics?

I was wondering, but perhaps I'm just showing favouritism 'coz I
drive one!  (I'll probably tidy it up when the discussion about
this model dries up)

Chris.

    I'd vote for one Calibra topic and one Calibra DTM topic.

    Consider yerselves lucky, Mr moderator wouldn't even allow 1 (titled) 
    300zx topic!
    
    

    �Consider yerselves lucky...
    
    This sort of comment REALLY annoys me. The moderators (yes there is
    more than one) of this conference try to keep it tidy and organised
    in a way that pleases _most_ people.
    
    I'm happy with topics on different variants of a model and as there is
    a lot of discussion on the DTM I think a seperate note is valid.
    However, if CBH decides to tidy it up then I support his actions.
    
    Re the 300ZX. The topic you mention I guess is 722 "NISSAN (STANZA VX
    300ZX) TRADING" where discussion on the 300ZX has been moved to in the
    past. My apologies if you thought this inappropriate. Be all means
    start a new topic on it or perhaps the note title should be changed.
    
    If anyone out there is not happy with any moderator action. Please
    e-mail the mod concerned and we are not too proud to reverse any
    decisions made.
    
    Royston

	Ah but anonymous notes such as .56 seem to slip through!

	-John

>	Ah but anonymous notes such as .56 seem to slip through!

that's okay, I know Mr Furniture from another conference...

Chris.

    >> Re the 300ZX. The topic you mention I guess is 722 "NISSAN (STANZA VX
    >> 300ZX) TRADING" where discussion on the 300ZX has been moved to in the
    >> past. My apologies if you thought this inappropriate. Be all means
    >> start a new topic on it or perhaps the note title should be changed.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    
    Considering 52 out of the 55 replies are directly about the 300zx or
    its bits this is why I asked you to change the title last year.
    
    You replied that, it didn't seem necessary.
    
    Paul.     
                                                

    
    Looks like he's got a point Mr Mod. While we're on the subject, why do
    the Calibra and DEC Test Manager share this note? 8-)
    
    JBG

    Apologies for my apparent double standards.
    
    I have now renamed note 722 from "NISSAN (STANZA VX300ZX) TRADING" to
    "NISSAN 300ZX". I believe the reason I didn't bother changing it earlier
    was that dir/tit=300zx would find the note anyway. However, as you say
    the majority of discussion focuses on the 300zx.
    
    Royston

I've finally got my hands on a DTM brochure & what a dissappointment.

The unique livery on the car is a yellow symbol of some sort down the side.
Standard rear spoiler & the white alloys don't do anything for me at all.
The pattern on the cloth seats is gross & to top it all off the DTM is only
available in white!

I've not had my quote back yet although I'll be giving the DTM a miss now 
anyway.

Simon

    
    Aren't the decals down the side optional?  The DTM wheels look like
    refugees from a kerbed Cosworth Sapphire.
    
    Chris.

Well dodge!

    .51�    The Calibra's basically nose heavy, so the car will understeer by
    .51�    nature. It doesn't need you to accelerate hard from a slow corner
    .51�    to provoke this, but often this is where it's most noticable, so I'm
    
    I've tested a 115bhp version. Car is heavy, as are most other recent
    new models. Engine is OK for normal road legal speed driving (90kph
    over here). Found it very lazy when you want to reach 140kph. I should
    probably test the 16valve version.
    
    The car did not show any problem when thrown into corners at 120-140kph
    except for some violent reactions in the steering wheel (I must admit
    that the inside front wheel was not always on the road ...). Brakes did
    not impress me, but this was a used car.
    
    The most peculiar thing I remember of this test is the very fuzzy
    feeling with the steering when going straight. I have encountered the
    same feeling with other cars but this cured by adjusting one of the
    front axle parameters.  
    
    Summary: I definitely won't buy this one. I want to test the 16 valve
    or the V6 (or both ...). Dealer will call me when he receives a V6.

    Having had one of the first Calibras I decided the handling was
    mostly due to the front was solid as a rock, and the rear very soft
    this ensures natural understeer, made worse by the back having some
    negative camber to help it stick!
    I put a pair of P300's on the front and was like driving on oil.
    swapped them to the back with MXV's now on the front and it balanced
    quite well . Also the solid front and probably the castor angle?
    made for interesting torque steer, if you put your foot down hard in 
    second coming out of a bend with any bumps, you had to keep a damm
    good grip of the wheel, or you'd be all over the road....
    
    Matt

    Thanks Matt. That confirms my impressions. Again I did not find the
    handling was that bad (on a dry road ...). I tried throwing the car
    into corners a bit like I would do with a kart (well given the weight
    you see what I mean) and the car did the things I wanted it to do.
    
    It was NOT like the Vectra. My experience driving several Avis cars was
    terrible. Several times I found myself unable to follow a low-end
    Renault 5 on a slippery road ... and had real problems getting the car
    to remain on the road. 
    
    The Calibra did things right. The driving impression was certainly not
    NICE, that's why I would look for something with a better feel (a la
    405 for instance).

I've just rung Car Fleet as I've not received a price back
for my quote yet.

For a 2.0i 16V Calibra DTM, Leather seats the price is: �4619.
Add �158.00 to that if yee want Air Conditioning.

Think I'll give it a miss.

Simon

Hi,

Having heard the news that the Calibre DTM, based on the German big *%@* off
wheel arched ground hugging mean lookin cosworth eating Touring Car, was to be
released, I rushed alond to my local dealer who showed me a pic of the above
mentioned.

" No, not that NORMAL calibre with the IRMSHITE kit on...I mean the new DTM
version, big arhces wiv brake vents, air dams un that" I said.

"Thats it" he replied.

"Open yer legs. I wanna kick yer in the nuts for taking the P*@*" I responded,
winding up my right size 9 Doc Martin.

"If you're going to resort to voilence, I won't let you see the pictures of the
interior" he said menacingly.

I answered with a suitable hand signal and left.

What a con,  calling this car the Calibre DTM.  Calibra BRO, would be more like
it.  Work it out for yourselves.

I'm off home to pull the wings off the wifes CORSA SWING and rebadging it CORSA
FORMULA 1.

YO!

    One of these has turned up in Leeds, looks nicer than I expected.
    
    Greg

    
    Saw one in the Parson's Tackle carpark near Solent the other day - they
    do look much better than the pre-release pictures.  The wheels still
    look like they've been nicked from a six year old Cosworth though...
    
    Chris.

    re .74
    
    And the lady ordered without seeing one. Guess that's normal for these
    specials.
    
    Andrew

FWIW
Wadham Kennings (READING) have a 2.5 DTM available for test drive- needs to be
 booked as it is the sales managers little toy.

took it out earlier this week- seems good road holding - but not really able
to get it to full speed (lunch time- too much town traffic and also not enough
time to get really onto open country roads for long enough)
Whether it is really worth more than std 2.5 can't really decide- even the
sales guy with me was not convinced re lowered suspension

Mind you now that std MR2 has been "priced" by lease plan as just about 6000 pa
I might have to forego the luxury of 2 seater back to tourer

Alan