Conference terri::cars_uk

Patrick

Any news on the Monte??

Mike

Any news on McRae?

John

    
    
    	Second stage ran into a wall of snow and lost 2� mins.
    
    	Fastest time on a couple of stages but is sitting about 9th
    3 mins behind SAINZ who is 30 secs clear of the rest.
    
    
    			Stevie,

    At end of day 1, after 6 special stages
    
    1 Sainz	Subaru
    2 Delecour 	Ford
    3 Makinen	Mitsubishi
    4 Auriol	Toyota
    5 Kankkunen	Toyota
    6 Thiry 	Ford
    
    As indicated in a previous reply Colin McRae was fastest in action and
    won the 1st task. In the 2nd one he went straight ahead in a hairpin
    and lost 2'40".
    
    The roads are very tricky. The new regulations on tyres make it very
    difficult for the drivers to compensate for tactics. Sainz and Delecour
    have obviously made the best choices.
    
    Now, everything can happen and the finish line is still far away ... 

    
    Oh dear.
    
    Just when we all thought McRae had _finally_ calmed down a bit...
    
    Mark

RE: McRae

Groan.....if he would just let off a bit he'd be unbeatable.

However, McRae is just the man to catch the leaders and I would not rule him
out of this rally yet. He is blindingly fast...when he does not crash

John

    .6�However, McRae is just the man to catch the leaders and I would not rule him
    .6�out of this rally yet. He is blindingly fast...when he does not crash
    
    This time, he did it for good. Crash. And the 3rd Subaru lost an
    enormous amount of time (30-40 minutes I think) leaving Carlos Sainz
    alone but ... in the lead.
    
    At the end of the 12th special stage:
    
    	1. Sainz	Subaru
    	2. Delecour	Ford      	+26"
    	3. Makkinen	Mitsubishi      +1'05"
    	4. Kankkunen	Toyota		+3'...
    	5. Auriol	Toyota		+3'...
    	6. Thiry	Ford
    
    Delecour won several tasks yesterday, taking the lead by mid-day. He or
    his team apparently made some wrong tyre choices as he lost a handful
    of seconds on Sainz during the last 2 stages.
    
    The Toyota drivers are very disappointed by their cars. They keep
    complaining about weak/hollow engines.
    
    The 2 Fords are still there. Thiry even won 1 difficult stage but he
    made a couple of wrong tyre choices. Delecour feels strong but he lost
    time in one the difficult and long stages (Sisteron-Thoard) with changing
    conditions based on notes supplied by his fellow OUVREURS (road
    openers).
    
    Tonight is the final (Turini) fight. We'll know the winner's name
    tomorrow morning.

RE:McRae out,

Oh well, there is always the next rally!

John

    
    I suspect that even the ever patient Dave Richards will tire of saying
    that eventually.
    
    Hardly an auspicious start to the season that Colin lauded as his
    Championship winning year, though, is it?
    
    Mark

Mark,

No it's not a good start, but slagging the best prospect Britian has is not
too clever either!

I still believe McRae will come good!  

John 
 

>> No it's not a good start, but slagging the best prospect Britian has is not
>> too clever either!
    
    Does he do that _too_? :^)
    
    I very much hope that McRae finally settles down as he is, without
    doubt, the best rally hope the UK's had for a very long time.  
    
    However, with fewer works teams and a lot of world class drivers
    looking for drives, McRae _REALLY_ needs to think about finishing 
    rallies regularly (No 'slagging' - just a fact). There are many good 
    British drivers who've _nearly_ made it only to be denied the chance 
    to establish themselves at the top level, because of a lack of patience
    on behalf of the team managers. 
    
    Due, no doubt to his great skill, McRae has been given a lot of
    chances, but he could go the same way as Malcolm Wilson, David Llwyelin
    (sorry, I know that's spelt wrong!) or Gwyndaf Evans very soon if he
    doesn't finally find the balance between been blindingly fast but
    unable to keep his car on the road for a whole rally and being a 4th or
    5th place man.
    
    I hope he does become World Champion, and maybe the Monte will knock
    some sense into him, but Auriol, Sainz, et al must be smiling knowingly
    today, unlike the Subaru management and Dave Richard in particular.
    
    Mark

    At the end of Day 3 (3 special stages early this morning)
    
    1. Sainz		Subaru	
    2. Delecour 	Ford 		+12"
    3. Makkinen		Mitsubishi	+1'04"
    4. Kankkunen        Toyota		+3'14"
    5. Auriol
    6. Thiry
    
    Delecour has patiently gained 12 secs. Thiry has won another special
    stage.
    
    Tonight is the Turini night.
                                

    Monte Carlo Provisional results (when I left they still had to drive to
    Monte Carlo ...)
    
    1.	Sainz		Subaru
    2.	Delecour	Ford		+2'25"
    3.	Kankkunen	Toyota
    4.	Makkinen	Mitsubishi
    5.	Thiry		Ford
    6.	Aghini		Mitsubishi
    ....
    
    Makkinen experienced some problems which cost him 3rd place. KKK
    benefits directly while the 2 other Toyotas are out: Auriol crashed and
    Schwarz stopped with a broken engine. 

    Some comments on the Monte Carlo and on the new tyre/engine/assistance
    regulations:
    
    - having to pick up a set of tyres that must not be changed for 2
      special stages (between 40 and 60 km) is crazy and can be dangerous
      The problem must be addressed between the Rally organisers and the
      FIA technical committee. There seems to be a wide consensus on this
      between the Group A drivers
    
    - the separation between the Group A, Group N and F2 cars is not
      obvious anymore. The Group A cars have been severely restricted while
      Group N and F2 cars enjoy some very liberal rules. The idea (?) was to
      generate more fights. In reality there has been a very clear gap
      between the categories.
    
    - Monte Carlo is a very specific race due to the impredictible and
      always changing race conditions. The ability to have the right choice
      of tyres for each task is critical. The new regulations have also
      introduced some extended possibilities to cheat.
    
    - Spectators in the Turini area have built their usual snow and ice
      zones. This year a lot of cars have been victims of these crazy people.
      Drivers are asking the ACM to boycot Turini in the future.

RE: Tyre selection being critical......

McRae must have selected the wrong tyres, which resulted in him crashing
out....well that's my tartan tinted excuse for his exit!

John

    
    Patrick.
    
    Are these rules for all rallies? What'll happen in Sweden? What're the
    conditions in Sweden?
    
    Mark

    Yes, these are the new rules for the World Rally Championship. From
    what happened at Monte Carlo, FIA may want to revise some of the rules.
    
    My own feeling is that those rules have been 'imposed' by manufacturers
    like Renault, who don't sell turbocharged 2ltr 4WD cars, yet wanted to
    compete in road racing. The new rules impose drastic restrictions on
    the Group A cars and they leave the door open to all sorts of
    improvements on the F2 (2ltr, 2WD). MonteCarlo is too specific but I'm
    sure that the F2 cars will shine on other (dry) roads like Corsica and
    San Remo.

    
    Well the 1995 WRC note soon died a death didn't it?
    
    Anyone know who won the Swedish rally (I can only assume it wasn't
    Colin Mcrae, or I sense we'd have read about it in here by now :^))?
    
    Last I heard Tommi Makkinnen (I know, too many of something!) was
    leading.
    
    Mark

    Sorry I was on vacation last week. I'll post the results. The Subarus
    did not finish. The Toyotas suffered the same engine problem as in the
    MonteCarlo but they finihed .... behind the 2 Mitsubishis of Kenneth
    Eriksson and Tommi Makinen. The Fords also suffered lots of problems.
    
    From top of my head:
    
    	1. Eriksson		Mitsubishi
    	2. Makkinen		Mitsubishi
    	3. Jansson		Toyota
    	4. Kankkunen		Toyota
    	5. Auriol		Toyota
        ....
    
    The whole rally was a Mitsubishi event with Eriksson and Makkinen way
    ahead the rest. The sad note came when team manager Andrew Cowan had to
    pick up a winner. The lucky one was ... Eriksson while Makkinen now
    leads the World Rally driver Championship.

1 Eriksson	Mitsubishi
2 Makinen	Mitsubishi
3 Radstrom	Toyota
4 Kankkunen	Toyota
5 Auriol	Toyota
6 Thiry		Ford
7 Blomqvist	Ford
8 Jansson	Toyota
9 Schwarz	Toyota
10 Backlund	Mitsubishi

Mitsubishi engaged team orders and made Makinen slow down to let Eriksson win
the rally.  Both were going full bore towards the end and Makinen didn't slow
down until the last stage.  Eriksson won by 12 seconds.

Dave

This weekend coming up (Saturday 25th) is the first round on the Mintex Rally
down in Bournemouth. I've been the past 2 years and it's always good fun.

The first stage is usually through the Rose Gardens right on the seafront, and
then the rally continues up into Ringwood.

Cost is normally around #5 a head for parking all day at the open stages.

Rally HQ is usually at the Swallowcliff Hotel (if it's like the last 2 years)
where you can pick up guides and leaflets, etc.

Take with you 	i) some wellies!
	 	ii) some sarnies
		iii) a torch
		iv) an ordnance survey map

..but hey! You're all rally purists, you don't need me to tell you that!!

Cheers,
Dan
[posted by Notes-News gateway]

    Oh cool! It works! :-)
    
    (Sorry... couldn't resist)
    Dan

>Take with you 	i) some wellies!
>	 	ii) some sarnies

Could someone explain these to me?

Thanks
Dave

    wellies	= Wellington Boots (ie. some waterproof footwear!)
    
    sarnies	= Sandwiches
    
    Sorry :-)
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

re .24 - thanks!

If someone does go, could you send a few action pictures over to me?  I'll be
willing to send some 'interesting' pictures (nudge, nudge, wink, wink) back in
return - Studebakers, Isettas, Type III VWs, etc.....

Thanks
Dave

    
    Re: Mintex.
    
    As I've always assumed! 
    
    The Internet takes an accurate message and garbles it with fiction! :^)
    
    The gardens in Bournemouth are the Winter Gardens (always have been, as
    far as I know). Parking is usually PER CAR, not per head (and if you're
    prepared to walk you can save yourself that).
    
    Finally, I've never heard of the Swallowcliff Hotel. Of course, this
    may simply be a new name for an old hotel, so I'll forgive the Internet
    garbler that one! :^)
    
    Having said all that, the stages in Ringwood forest are the best chance
    for us 'Southerners' to get to see high (if not quite TOP) class rally
    cars and drivers in action on gravel.
    
    Mark

    re. Winter/Rose Gardens
    
    	No, it's not the internet, it's my mate - I'll give him a good
    telling off for misinformation ;-)
    
    re. parking per car
    
    	Oh, that's good then. �5 per car if I remember rightly, yes?
    
    re. Swallowcliff
    
    	Again, my mate's to blame for that one... if it's wrong, I'll give
    you his 'net address and you can flame him :-) then blame it on the
    'net garble.... hehe
    
    Cheers,
    Dan$net_talk_hat-ON

    As for the pictures.... hmmm.... okay I'll try something here.....
    
    1.	I'll get stills of all/most of the top cars for you, scan them in
    and put them up somewhere for all to see.
       
    2.	I've just managed to get MPEG encoding software. We're taking a
    video camera with us too. If I can find a video that does good enough
    stills, and frame advance, I'll digitise some particularly good old
    scenes on my Archimedes at home (who remember them, ey?), sit down one
    night and convert all the piccys to .PPM format, code 'em up for you,
    and put them up somewhere too.
    
    	Howzaaat!?
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

    
    Re Parking.
    
    I haven't paid to park, but c.�5 a car sounds about what they were
    charging last year.
    
    I suspect the base is actually the Highcliffe Hotel, but on this I may
    be wrong, it's just I've never heard of the Swallowcliffe. I think the
    Royal Bath Hotel has acted as the base in the past. 
    
    The start is usually (has been every time I've been) outside the
    Pavillion which is on the road with all the cinemas (Westover Road?).
    This  is a good place to visit as you can have a look around the
    gathered cars before the start and then wander around the side of the
    Pavillion to look down on the Winter Garden stages. Then, it's into the
    car (after the first 25 or so cars) and up to Ringwood for the first
    forest stage, you can then either follow the stages (try and get a
    stage guide at the Pavillion) or have a pub lunch and return the
    the Ringwood forest stage in the afternoon (Often these stages are run
    back to front in morning and afternoon, or over a slightly different
    route, but based on the same area).
    
    Wish I was going, but I've got to rough it in Austria :^).
    
    Mark
    
    PS Disclaimer : Above information is not sourced on any info about this
    year's event, but has been pretty much the pattern over the last 5 or 6
    years.

    re:.26
    
    Just a small correction. The park bit in the middle of Bournemouth
    (which goes down to the pier) is not the Winter Gardens. The WG are off
    to one side a bit. I know because I got in an argument with someone
    about the location of the WG, I swore blind that the bit in the middle
    was the WG, and I promptly lost. 
    
    

    
    Re .30
    
    Really? I know the 'Winter Garden' theatre is further back, but I was
    always under the impression that the whole stretch of gardens from the
    pier approach up was called the Winter Gardens.
    
    As you say, it must be a popular misconception as EVERYONE I know calls
    the whole stretch the Winter Gardens. Do you know what they are called?
    Perhaps they are the Rose Gardens, after all?
    
    Mark (Brought up in Bournemouth)
     

Hi there,

	anyone know the latest from Portugal ?


Thanks,

	Warren

    Unconfirmed :
    
    I heard Sainz won that Rally, gaining the first place in World Champ. I
    believe I heard Kankunnen did not too bad (second or something)
    
    Will have to check this all...
    
    Charles

    
    >I heard Sainz won that Rally,
    
    Yup, Sainz won it with McRae coming in third which was his best result
    in this rally.
    
    POL.

    I'll post the complete results. Kankkunen finished 12 seconds behind
    Sainz. McRae 3rd. Auriol 5th. Delecour did a barrel roll at slow speed
    in one of the very early stages and the engine did not like it too much 
    (probably lost oil in the process) so he was out before the end of the
    1st day. The Toyotas have definitely improved on the engine side, but
    the Subarus still have an edge.

    Tour de Corse
    -------------
    
    At the end of day 1 (8 specials) the 2 Fords are ahead. Bruno Thiry
    leads team mate Fran�ois Delecour by 6 seconds. Didier Auriol is 3rd 30
    seconds behind Thiry, 4th is Aghini, Sainz is only 5th. 

    Quick FYI...
    
    
    ...there's an excellent Rally arcade game out, can't think what it's
    called (probably something really imaginative, like "Rally"), based on
    the Daytona engine. Good laugh!
    
    Cheers,
    Dan

>Sainz is only 5th. 

Only?

Dave ;-)

>...there's an excellent Rally arcade game out, can't think what it's
>    called (probably something really imaginative, like "Rally"), based on
>    the Daytona engine. Good laugh!
 
Meaning a large standalone game and not a PC or Nintendo type game?  I'll have
to check our local video game places.

Dave   

    .38�>Sainz is only 5th. 
    .38�
    .38�Only?
    
    Yes, and McRae is (was) even further down.
    
    At the end of day 2 Bruno Thiry has increased his lead over teammate
    Fran�ois Delecour. 3rd is still Auriol. Ford ahead of Toyota.
    
    Kust heard on the radio that Thiry has won the 1st special stage of
    this morning, increasing his lead once again. Well done Bruno.
    
    Finish line tonight !
                         

    re.39
    
    Yes, arcade game. At the moment it's standalone, but seeing as Daytona
    supports up to 8 people (possibly more), I wouldn't be surprised if a
    multi-player version came out soon (just add on more machines I
    suppose).
    
    Graphics are gorgeous, and gameplay is pretty cool too. There's even a
    little thing under the seat that rumbles when you're going over gravel!
    Excellent!

    Final results
    -------------
    
    1.	Auriol		Toyota
    2.	Delecour	Ford
    3.	Aghini		Mitsubishi
    4.	Sainz		Subaru
    5.	McRae		Subaru
    6.	Liatti		Subaru
    .......
    
    Bruno Thiry dominated the whole rally until 2 specials from the end
    when the front right wheel bearing broke. Unfortunately, due to the new
    1995 FIA regulations, mechanics could not touch the car.
    
    Delecour should have won as he was leading Auriol, but he went slightly
    off road and upset the front axle geometry. With a repaired car, it was
    obviously too late to chase Auriol.
    
    The Subarus had a fierce fight between themselves but none were in a
    position to fight for the leading position. Very disappointing.
    
    In the F2 series, Bugalski and the Clio Maxi have finally taken over
    Ragnotti in the similar car. 
    
    I'll post the World Rally Championship standings. Sainz is still in the
    lead.
         

New Zealand Rally 1995
----------------------

1. McRae	Subaru
2. Auriol	Toyota
3. Kankkunen	Toyota
4. Schwarz	Toyota
5. Eriksson	Mitsubishi
6. Delecour	Ford
....

1995 World Rally Championship standings
---------------------------------------

Drivers					Manufacturers

Auriol		51			Toyota		217
Kankkunen	50			Mitsubishi	199
Sainz		50			Subaru		193
McRae		40			Ford		169
Delecour	36
Eriksson	28
Makinen		28
Schwarz		22
Thiry		20
Aghini		18
...

    Major problem for Toyota, following the Catalunya Rally where Didier
    Auriol's car had been technically checked by the marshalls and found
    containing illegal engine parts.
    
    In a 1st phase Auriol has been disqualified from the spanish rally.
    Following this, the FIA has taken a number of Toyota engine parts for
    further examination. They have found that the turbocharger, which must
    pump fresh air through a 34mm of diameter inlet restrictor, had been
    equipped with a very well disguised mobile valve that could allow more
    air during the special stages. This was obviously not done by accident
    but was rather produced by very careful engineering.
    
    As a consequence of this:
    
    - Toyota has been excluded from the 1995 World Rally championship
    - Driver and Manufacturer championships points have been removed
    - Toyota Team Europe (K�ln, Germany) will not be allowed to compete in
      1996
    
    TTE have cheated. TTE's technical director Dieter B�lling has resigned.
    Drivers Auriol, Kankkunen, Schwarz have lost their championship points.
    Toyota Company are not suspect of cheating. They will probably find a
    way to enter the 1996 championship through another team.
    
    More news to follow.

Pretty drastic measures, but if the allegations are correct (and by all the
resignations, it sounds like they are) this is the right move.  Will all the
other drivers and manufacturers be moved up in the results of the events?  This
will be a major re-shuffle...

Dave

From the description in Autosport, the Turbo had been deliberately designed so
that if it was removed for scrutineering the 'mods' allowing the increased
airflow could not be seen, and it was by re-fitting that the airflow mods were
then activated. It was not even an 'arguable' mis-interpretation of rules, it
was a carefully engineered piece of design to break the rules.

 I think teams have to be shown that cheating is not acceptable, since if the
penalties are small, they may see it as worth the risk. - and if that sort or
risk it becomes acceptabe in professional motorsport, it filters down into club
sport, where policing of the rules is more diffiult because of the supposed
atmosphere of "we're really all here to enjoy ourselves and don't want to make a
big deal of the rules, since non of us are trying to cheat anyway"  and the lack
of a specialist eligibility scrutineer for many formulae.

Elaine

    I agree. FIA surely must not soften their decision. This is serious
    cheating. 
    
    Toyota will appeal the FIA decision, I'm convinced they did not know 
    anything about the cheat. I'm also very sorry for the drivers who were
    not aware either. I've read an interview of Auriol saying that they had
    been testing some 'new engine management' firmware. Under the new 34mm
    inlet restrictor rule the Toyota engines have had real power problems
    all season. TTE (Toyota Team Europe, managed by Ove Andersson) have
    obviously found a way to solve the problem.
    
    The next question is: if Toyota Team Europe are not allowed to race in
    1996:
    
    - what will Toyota do ? rally is a key promotional thing in Japan
    
    There are a number of private teams like the italian Griffone who enter
    Toyotas in national rallies already. Will Toyota be allowed to switch
    to one such team ? Will that be OK to compete at World Championship
    level ?
    
    - what will the drivers do ?
    
    Carlos Sainz just announced a couple of weeks ago that he was leaving
    Subaru's Prodrive team (led by David Richards) to join the TTE. At this
    point he is left with nothing. Auriol was planning to leave TTE. What
    about KKK and Schwarz ?
    
    This affair is very bad for the whole World Rally Championship. The
    image of the championship may suffer (cheaters) or the championship may
    not be representative if Toyota should leave it.
                                                    

    Looks like Colin's got the bit between his teeth.  After the first
    stage this morning (day 2) he has opened up a lead of some 40 seconds
    over Sainz.  Makinen's retired with knackered steering and Erikson's
    back into 2nd place some 35 seconds adrift.  All this after McRae
    finished day 1 in 3rd place 10 seconds off the pace.
    
    
    Nev.

    I understand that Sainz and McRae are both on 70 points, and that
    nobody else can catch them in the championship. If both of them crash
    out of the Lombard, who will take the title ?
    
    Steve.

    If both crash out, Sainz will take the title as he has won 3 rounds
    against McRae's 2.
    
    
    
    Nev.

    Re: .50
    
    Well, that adds new significance to the 'team orders' fiasco in Spain,
    where Mcrae had to give way to Sainz in his home rally doesn't it ?!!
    
    Presumably if Colin had been allowed to win that one, he would be the
    3-2 leader.
    
    Steve.

    
    Final Day. (4 of 4)
    
    Starting the day 17 seconds ahead of Sainz, McRae is already flying. 
    After 3 of the final 7 stages the "Flying Scot" has extended his lead
    to 29 seconds.  Colin's on course to becoming Britain's first ever
    World Rally Champion, keep your fingers crossed.
    
    Yesterday, McRae started some 39 seconds adrift and, despite 2 further
    punctures, he ended the day in the lead.  This event has seen a real
    see-saw battle between the year's top 2 drivers with McRae having won
    12 of the 21 stages up to last night (Sainz has won 3).  But for a 
    nightmare on monday, his lead would be a lot more comfortable.
    
    
    Nev.

    Colin McRae has been crowned 1995 World Rally Champion having just 
    won the Network Q RAC Rally.  He is the first Brit to have achieved 
    this, a superb moment for British motorsport.
    
    
    Nev

    
    and the youngest ever world champ @ 27 or so say Sky News.
    

    Final Results (still Provisional)
    
     1  Colin McRae    (Subaru)     GB        5h 09m 19s;
     2  Sainz          (Subaru)     Spain           +36s;
     3  Burns          (Subaru)     GB           +6m 31s;
     4  Alistair McRae (Ford)       GB          +11m 15s;
     5  Thiry          (Ford)       Belgium     +11m 52s;
     6  Evans          (Ford)       GB          +32m 48s; WINS Formula 2
     7  Madeira        (Mitsubishi) Portugal    +34m 45s; WINS Group N
     8  Kytolehto      (Nissan)     Finland     +36m 00s;
     9  Kamioka        (Subaru)     Japan       +41m 02s;
    10  Oreille        (Renault)    France      +41m 21s;
    11  Kataoka        (Mitsubishi) Japan       +41m 51s;
    12  Laukkanen      (Volkswagen) Finland     +43m 09s;
    13  Curran         (Ford)       GB          +47m 52s;
    14  Holderied      (Mitsubishi) Germany     +48m 07s;
    15  Head           (Renault)    GB          +50m 04s;
    16  Nittel         (Toyota)     Germany     +52m 39s;
    17  Singh          (Proton)     Malaysia    +53m 29s;
    18  Easson         (Ford)       GB          +55m 09s;
    19  Lyall          (Ford)       GB          +55m 42s;
    20  Payne          (Ford)       GB          +58m 18s;
    

    Well done Colin !
    
    Back to the Toyota affair ...
    
    Toyota Motor Corporation have just announced that they won't enter the
    1996 and 1997 world rally championships. Toyota Team Europe, based in
    Cologne, Germany, managed by ex-world rally champion Ove Andersson will
    concentrate on other activities.
    
    Toyota Motor Corporation have announced they will definitely return in
    1998, most probably with a race car not anymore based on the Celica.
    
    What are the current Toyota drivers going to do next year is unknown.
    Auriol was already on the move. Kankkunen and Schwarz ? Sainz is now
    left without a seat, since he had left Subaru to join Toyota.
    
    Many question marks ...