Conference terri::cars_uk

There seems to be a lot of talk about the 600 being the British BMW.
This seems strange considering the part Honda have played in the 
design. Apparantly the Honda engine had to be used as the Rover
engine wouldn't fit under the bonnet! I think Rover are currently
working on their own engines for the 600 and 216.

If it is to be the British BMW, it needs to be more British
and less well equipped for the price!



	Ian

Just been for a test drive in a 620 SLi at a local dealers in LEEDS.

I have to say that I was both suprised and extremely impressed with the 
car. I am not noted for my love of Rover cars but the 620 is an 
extremely good car. It handled well, was very smooth and seemed to have 
acres of space in the cab. 

Only thing I didn't like was the lack of RDS radio equipment but that is 
more of a niggle than a complaint.

This car is definitely on my list when my current car comes up for 
renewal. I should add that I have 2 Kids and tow  a caravan so that I 
need a fairly meaty car with loads of room for pushchairs etc.

I would certainly recommend anyone to have a drive of a 620 before they 
make the mistake of ordering a BMW (you want wheels, now we are talking 
optional extras) 3 series.

IMHO a b****y good car

Malcolm

re -1

>Only thing I didn't like was the lack of RDS radio equipment but that is 
>more of a niggle than a complaint.

Are you saying that Rover are not supplying an RDS radio as an option
in the 620 SLi or that it does not come with one as standard. Certainly the
rest of the Rover range has Philips RDS radions as options.

	Dave

    
    Re .3
    
    The Honda versions of the 620 and 623 are about �2000 cheaper than 
    the Rover... so why buy a Rover?
    
    Richard.
    

re .4

The RDS is an OPTION on the i, Si and SLi cars, and standard on the top 
end cars such as the GSI.

Its there if you want it but it costs you more (bearing in mind next 
years tax system).

As I already have RDS in my Cavalier SRi I find it odd that a car which 
would cost me more, does not have it as standard.

re .4 I haven't tried the HONDA, so I cannot answer that. My comment 
still stands - it is a good car plus I don't have to pay �2000 more.

 I suspect that the Rover and the Honda may not be that different on the 
car scheme; it will be interesting to see the difference.

Malcolm ( who doesn't need to order a car for 12 months)

��    The Honda versions of the 620 and 623 are about �2000 cheaper than 
��    the Rover... so why buy a Rover?
 
    All that chrome and prestige and history...
    
    ...it says here ;-)

What are the advantages of RDS? I have RDS in my car now, but I don't see any
advantages over what I had before.


	Ian

Isn't it supposed to be useful if you travel a lot in the UK,
and want to listen to the same radio station all the time, but
the frequency of the channel is changing.

Here in France it would be VERY useful since the frequency
tends to change every 100kms or so, and it's a real pain
trying to find the channel again when you do loose it.

The Auto Express back-to-back of the Rover 620 Sli and it's equiv. Honda said the 
performance was allmost identical as was the handling.

The only difference they came up with was that the Honda interior was a bland mix of 
grey grey and more grey. In contrast the Rover interior colours were well balance 
and the wood cappings set it off well.

The conclusion:
If it's your money take the Honda, if it's someone elses then take the Rover.

Richard

    
    A mate of mine who I met on Saturday (a motoring journo) was telling me
    how he'd been given a Rover 6xx to test and how it had ended up in the
    middle of the road with a bus parked over the boot.  Apparently he'd
    parked it on a slight incline out of gear but with the handbrake on and
    the next thing he knew the alarm was going off, it was in the middle of
    the road with a bus in the side of it.
    
    Is this something that could happen to any car, or could Rover have to
    recall their cars like Citreon did?!  Any other reports of 6 series
    doing a runner of their own accord?
    
    Chris.
    
    

    
    The fuel consumption on the Rover 620 diesel looks impressive 
    according to "what car" it should average 55mpg (70 mpg @56mph) and do
    0-60 in 9.9 now thats impressive for a largish car.
    it has a good size boot, and thier nice to drive but I'd much rather
    have a Vauxhall.... honestly!
    
    But I've seen a quote in here somewhere at ~�5500 criminal! why should
    a Rover come out �1300/year more than an equivelant Vauxhall with a
    similar price/price retention, it doesn't make any sense unless
    somebody somewhere is on a backhander!
    
    Richard(young@wlo)

    Richard,
    
    We have a deal with Vauxhall (and it's actually a good one).
    
    It's the basic rule of the car scheme that Vauxhalls are cheaper
    because we have a deal with them.
    
    If we had a deal with Rover/Mercedes/Astom Martin/Lada, they would look
    better value.
    
    That's the way it is.
    
    If you want to make comparisons, make them between two non-Vauxhaull
    makes.
    
    Peter

    
    
    Peter,
    
    I apologise if my comments were a touch emotive, I seem to have touched
    a nerve with you, may I ask which area you work in? You say its a good
    deal, can you give us any details of the deal as detail is thin on the
    ground we get the "mushroom treatment" its a good deal we save loadsa
    money.
    
    Are we really getting that much off? the case I mentioned were cars of
    similar value with similar residual values but �1300/year lease
    difference thats nearly �4000 over 3 years thats 25% of the cars value,
    do we get 25% off?
    
    As I say if we are provided with facts and figures we can see the
    savings if we see figures like this and get told believe us its a good
    deal we draw our own conclusions.
    
    Richard(young@wlo)
    

    Richard,
    
    I have nothing to do with car-fleet other than being a customer of
    theirs. I don't have to be as I could opt out of the scheme.
    
    The prices are on VTX, under something like car-fleet, preferred car
    list.
    
    I think it's a good deal as I do a high private mileage and I don't get
    any penalty for that other than having to pay for the fuel. I don't
    believe that I could lease a car under a private scheme for better
    money. In truth I have a Renault, but I accept that the best deal is
    for a Vauxhall. I 'pays my money and has my choice'.
    
    I have no idea about the terms of the Vauxhall (or is it GM?) deal
    except that compared with our other quotes it always looks good. I rate
    that as discount on Vauxhaull, not a surcharge on others.
    
     Anyway, that's all I know, so I'll rest happy in my ignorance.
    
    Have a good weekend
    
    Peter

    As a Limited Company (contractor) with three years audited accounts I
    have able to get a contract hire on a Mazda MX5 1.8i for �170 per
    month. This a 12 month/10,000 mile contract and excess miles are charged 
    at 8.2p mile.
    
    The down side is the insurance �564 fully comp because the registered
    owner is the lease company. I shall also take a hit on my income tax
    allowances which I reackon on costing about �105/month.
    
    Dave
    

    
    re .16
    
    There must be more to it than that, or are you saying that after 1 year
    you will hand back the car and it will have cost 2040 to 'hire'  an MX5
    for a year.
    
    Garry
     

    Is this how it would compare to a cost for us?
    
    12 x 170 = 2040
    Insurance=  564
    mileage     820  (Our lease assumes 20K per year)
               ----
    	       3424 
    divide 0.6 5706  (our cost comes from gross income)
    
    How much does an MX5 cost on Digital's scheme?
    
    Andrew

    Re .last
>>    12 x 170 = 2040
>>    Insurance=  564
>>    mileage     820  (Our lease assumes 20K per year) - 
>>               ----
>>    	       3424 
>>    divide 0.6 5706  (our cost comes from gross income)
    
    Does anyone remember WHEN the change to 36 months 60,000 took place?
    The original mail from Alastair Wright which announced the changes for
    the 92 fiscal year said 36 months 36,000. Car lease costs based on 
    36 months 60,000 are significantly more expensive (�100+ per month) 
    than 36 months 36,000.
    
    Also, does everyone do 60,000?  Or does DEC get refunds which it keeps
    for those doing less than 60,000?
    
    In the above example there is no need to divide by 0.6 - the cost in
    the previous quote was the lease cost. (Although this does seem cheap!)
    The lease cost (+ insurance) is the amount that would be deducted from 
    our gross salaries.
    
    Richard.

As far as I remember, Digital takes a lease based on your own estimated mileage
at the time of the order.  That is why you commit on the order form to notify
fleet if your estimated mileage changes by 20%...  Did you know that?  (Did you
also know that breaking the speed limit makes you liable to formal disciplinary
action?  That's what your company car contract with Digital says is the result
of use of the vehicle "in breach of any statutory requirement or regulation"!)

Once upon a time, a very long time ago, we actually got quotes that were based
on our estimated mileage - I'm talking ten years or so ago.  Then some bright
spark pointed out that that meant that someone whose job required them to do
20000 miles per year paid more for his car than someone who didn't drive as part
of his job, and therefore did only 10000 miles per year - if you think about
this, the person whose car wasn't a perk but a necessity was paying more, which
is probably morally wrong somewhere ...

That's when they gave us all quotes based on 36 months/36000 miles, but Digital
took whatever looked to be right.  And yes, Digital does either pay or pocket
the difference ...

T

Re .19:
�    In the above example there is no need to divide by 0.6 - the cost in
�    the previous quote was the lease cost. (Although this does seem cheap!)
�    The lease cost (+ insurance) is the amount that would be deducted from 
�    our gross salaries.

Wrong!

In order to compare our quotes with this information, you do have to divide as
shown.  The reason is that the figures quoted would be taken from your net
salary if you left the scheme and leased externally, whereas they are taken from
your gross salary if you remain in the scheme.

As such, if you were to leave the car scheme and take up this lease privately,
you'd need to allocate �5706 pounds of your gross salary, to leave you �3424 of
your net salary to pay the lease company.  When we quote internal lease prices,
they are taken direct from gross salary as you said.

T  

    
    When comparing Lease costs, remember that Dave Barron is a contractor
    and these prices are what his limited company pays - not what an
    individual would pay.
    
    Graham 

    re .21
    
    No, not wrong. I was comparing DEC lease price with the external quote
    as the two are comparable.
    
    However your calculation on the gross salary required to fund such a
    lease is wrong. It omits the VAT that would be payable on the lease
    cost.
    
    Richard.