Conference terri::cars_uk

    Sounds hairy. Lots of BMW drivers trying to go fast.
    
    Future lease quotes loaded to cover the cost? I'm sure car fleet would
    have something to say - and PHH/Hertz
    
    Andrew

    
    They're an established club, with a good safety record and sensible
    attitude to circuit driving. Club 89 is really a less exotic version
    of Club 96, which was _the_ circuit driving club (but rather hairy,
    with a lot of single seaters and racing drivers out on the circuit).
    
    Club 89 divides each session into 3 categories, novice, intermediate
    and experienced. The intermediate class is for drivers who've done
    some circuit work, the experienced class for the quicker cars and
    drivers. You can sit in with a racing driver, and get some informal
    instruction through the day.
    
    As far as the experience goes, its superb. Its the only place where
    you can begin to explore your own ability to control a car, and learn
    about the effects of acceleration, braking and cornering on stability.
    You'll learn a lot, be astonished at how smooth and quick the best
    professionals are, and have a great time. Club 89 do use some of the
    best circuits in England, and have the clout to hire circuits that
    clubs like HPC are now having trouble booking (That said, HPC track
    days are a lot cheaper).
    
    The downside is that Club 89 are in it for the money; its expensive,
    and they're are bound to be a few drivers out there with an attitude
    problem - I'd be concerned about people driving beyond their ability.
            
    Its not the only way to drive on a circuit, of course. A long weekend
    to Nurburgring might appeal...
                       
    William.                      

    I sent off for details last year - I've since binned them.
    
    At that time, the club had a Cossie and an M3, which were
    present on the track days.  You were able to drive your own
    car on the track, with or without an instructor.  I think
    you could drive the club cars, but I could be wrong on that.
    If so, I guess there would be an extra fee for the privilege.
    Maybe you could only be taken out by an instructor.
    
    To my mind, the cost of 'joining' the 'club', coupled to the
    cost of the track days wasn't worthwhile.  Then again, that
    was when I had the integrale, which isn't an ideal circuit car.
    
    With the Alfa, I intend joining the Owner's Club and joining in
    on at least one (Goodwood) of the track days that they hold.
    
    I understand that the Porsche owners club also hold track days,
    for which you can have valid insurance.  So, if you are a member of
    the relevant owners club, you may be able to get on circuit that way.
    
    With regard to insurance, I can't believe you would be able to make
    a claim if you totalled the [company] car on a race track, even if
    you were not technically racing.  Otherwise, hillclimbing would be
    covered by normal car insurance.  (Porsche events mentioned above
    come under a special clause - details, Shaun ?).
    
    J.R.

some of the car magazines run special offers on track days - Performance Car
and Club 89 is one that comes to mind - even so the cost is still about 100quid
- not sure whether that's for a whole or half a day though...


...art

    
    Cost is about �95 for non-members and �75 for members. I don't
    know what it costs to join.
    
    I didn't think that it sounded particularly bad value really. Some
    may argue that a day at a racing school is cheaper (or about the same),
    but Club 89 seem to offer REALLY top rate drivers (Hoy, Harvey, Bellm,
    etc) in saloons, more laps than a school day and the chance to drive
    the car you drive everyday to (or near) the limit. If you want the
    thrill of driving a single seater a race school day is for you, but if 
    you fancy exploring the limits of your own car Club 89 sounds pretty
    good.
    
    Me? I'll stick to driving around the Basingstoke ringroad! :^)
    
    Mark

    I don't think that you are insured on PCGB events and I know its not
    the case for FOC.
    
    	Rik

    
    The reason that Club 89 events may be covered by your insurance is
    that they are not competitive, and untimed. They're marketed as
    better driving events, and your insurance company may cover you in
    the event of an accident.
    
    William.

>>    Porsche events mentioned above  come under a special clause - details,
>>    Shaun ?
    
    The Porsche club have organised a special insurance deal for its
    members which enables you to participate on their track days (one of
    which is at Nurbering!).  The policy is through GRE and backed by
    the Nat-West Bank, and is only available to club members.
    
    The format of the day is that in groups of 4 - 6 cars you follow a
    'Pace' car round the circuit which is being driven by an experienced
    racing driver, so that you can learn the correct lines to take through
    the bends and learn the braking points, etc.  I presume even this policy
    would'nt cover you to actually race your car.
    
    
    Shaun.
    
    

    
>    The reason that Club 89 events may be covered by your insurance is

As fleet cars are insured by Digital, I wouldn't be at all suprised it they 
weren't insured under the conditions you state...

>As fleet cars are insured by Digital, I wouldn't be at all suprised it they 
>weren't insured under the conditions you state...

Digital does not cover the third party risks. As was stated, these will only
be covered by the insurance against tp liability if they are untimed and
uncompetitive.

the last time I filled in an insurance form for a fleet car, my manager
sympathised about the car being broken into.

I can imagine he would have different views if the statement on the form
was along the lines of 

"I was approaching the bend, and under full braking the rear end drifted
out due to the lack of downforce caused by following the car in front
too close, and the car mounted the kerb and skidded into the sand trap,
causing damage to the .......

signed N. Mansell."


Now, the Williams team may be used to seeing that kind of report, but I'm
not so sure my boss would take so kindly to it.

If you do want to play on a race track, do it for free at the manufacturers
expense, and attend a test track day.

I went to a Rover one a couple of years ago at Thruxton, and it was great
fun. Contact Fleet Admin or watch VTX for details. They usually run
a couple of times during the summer months.

Peter.

Re: .11


> Digital does not cover the third party risks. 

But it's not the third party risk bit that mends the car if you bend it :-)

    Re. insurance of fleet cars.
    
    Even though the 'event' may be untimed and uncompetitive, even though
    not classed as racing, I would definitely not expect your Digital
    insurance to cover you for driving under conditions that are outside
    of normal traffic laws.  Of course, I would expect them to cover you
    if you were driving on a private road, but this sort of 'excuse' is
    not a good idea.
    
    Any comment from the insurance department ?
    
    J.R.

TP Liability is the serious one. I'd say that would be covered. TP Liability is
very difficult to avoid, if not impossible.

There is no "insurance" as such to the cars themselves, and virtually whatever
the circumstances, Digital would have to repair it.

This, of course, does not measure any effect it would have on your career.

M.

I am a member of the Porsche Club of America (PCA) which has "drivers
education" events on race tracks. I know a couple of people who have
totaled their cars on the track and nobody was hurt. They filed the
insurance reports stating that the accident took place on a private
road and nobody was hurt which explained the lack of a police report. 
They all agree that you would not want to try this twice!

The PCA also has a rule however that says you cannot take a leased
car on the track unless your lease specifically approves it.