Conference terri::cars_uk

    I think the rest of us might call it a tank !!
    
    :-)
    
    Rich
    

    Do you tick the option box for turret ?

    I've seen one of these things, they're a little on the "functional"
    side (in fact they make a commercial landrover look like a Daimler),
    is it true that they can withstand a direct hit from most AGMs?

    What are you going to call it btw? I mean if a landrover has to be
    a "landy" and a rangerover a "rangy" I suppose you'll have to refer
    to it as an "ummy" ;-)

    JJ (sticking to Rangerovers).

I to have had a close look at these things. I suppose you could call it the
ALTERnate Landrover.

I had a look at the Station Wagon version. The rear door (side hinge) is
a half steel, half glass construction:


	.-------------------.		I am convinced that the
	|                   |] hinge	glass is at least � inch          
	|                   |		thick.
	|    Glass          |
	|                   |
	|-------------------|
	|                   |
	|    Steel          |
	|                   |
	|                   |] hinge
	`-------------------'

Oh and by the way, the one I saw had three windscreen wipers.

Simon

    There was a comparison [off-] road test about a month ago in one of
    the 4x4 magazines which compared a Land Rover and a crew-cab ALTER.
    
    Since you've made your decision, I don't suppose you would be too
    interested in any comments from the article.  If you want though,
    I could try to look out the mag and copy it for you...
    
    J.R.

I've seen the article - and I agree with its comments, but they apply to the 
long wheel base version (is 127" landy, 121" Alter) - this isn't the short
wheelbase version - at least in terms of ease of negotiating obstacles.

In fairness to those who are reliant on magazine articles, I spent quite some 
time last year as an observor at the military vehicle trials when the 100"
Alter was pitted against the Landy and others.

The fact is that in most trials the Alter won: the bottom line was that we bought
the Landy purely because it was British built...

/. Ian .\

PS: they all have three windscreen wipers...

    Portuguese perspective:
    
    Most Portuguese think they are ugly too - there was some surprise here
    that they appear to be better than a Land Rover!
    The correct Portuguese pronunciation is "oo em y em" (um and m).
    Let me know if you have problems with parts etc
    
    John Gray (@XIP) - "Brit in Lisbon"

Hi,

well in last years Military vehicle trials the UMM actually outpointed the
Landy in the performance sections. Popular rumour was that Landy only won
because it was home built, but I suspect the bottom line was that British
Aerospace (who own Land Rover) priced their tender for vehicles and parts
just below UMM's

One 'trick' the UMM has that might be of interest to caravan and boat towers
is that you can engage low ratio on the transfer box without having to
engage four wheel drive. This can be very useful for getting an awkward load
moving, manoevring on a site, or just inching along on the M25...

/. Ian .\

>>
One 'trick' the UMM has that might be of interest to caravan and boat towers
is that you can engage low ratio on the transfer box without having to
engage four wheel drive. This can be very useful for getting an awkward load
moving, manoevring on a site, or just inching along on the M25...
>>
    
    Just a warning - some caravan maufacturers are saying that their
    products are not designed to be towed behind Land Rover type vehicles,
    because of the increased vibrations etc transmitted to the chassis.....
    
    At the risk of starting a rathole - this is/was not widely publicised, and
    people who have tried insurance/guarantee claims have had their fingers
    burnt - for not reading the small print.....

	� without having to engage four wheel drive

	Good lord, you mean you actually have to *engage* 4wd yourself?
	How primitive! You'll be telling us next you have to stop the car
	and get out to twist the hub caps round (or whatever it is that
	Suzuki rhino drivers have to do) as well...

	Btw does this "increased vibration" business apply to RangeRovers?

	JJ.

There has long been an argument between various designers and users as to
whether permanent 4wd is 'better' than part-time 4wd.

Full time 4wd requires a centre differential, and these are known to fail
(Land Rover offer a heavy duty 4-planet diff as an expensive option on the
Land Rover Defender and Discovery ranges). Part time can operate without a
centre diff (whence engaged 4wd acts like locked centre diff on a Landy
and shouldn't be used on dry hard surfaced roads as it causes 'wind-up' [not
the well known noting practice, but a problem in the drive shafts]).

UMM have taken the approach of having part time 4wd as it is claimed to be
stronger and less prone to failure. Due to the design of their transfer case
you can switch from 'Hi' to 'Lo' at speeds up to about 15mph and between 2wd 
and 4wd at any reasonable speed. Yes there are locking hubs, but they can be 
left locked all the time (it doesn't worry me - this is better than my Jeep CJ7
which could only engage 4wd at speeds les than 4mph, and usually could only 
switch back to 2wd after reversing for a hundred yards or so...)

/. Ian .\

As for increased vibration, its funny that so many professional caravan
moving companies seem to use Land Rovers for tow vehicles...

I had heard that the real problem isn't vibration but that the vehicle has
so much torque that if the caravan is stuck in the mud the tow vehicle can
overstress the caravan chassis when un-sticking it.

/. Ian .\

	Re .12

	Also if there was all this excess vibration I wouldn't have
	thought so many people would use Landrovers and Rangerovers
	to tow horse trailers...

	JJ.

    Re .11 I am intrigued by the 4 planet thingummy on the Land Rover. They
    are obviously far more wide ranging than I thought. Clearly Solihull
    supplied the Americans with the moon buggy and the Russians with their
    Mars vehicle. But which are the other planets?
    
    Puzzled of Basingstoke

    Shame on you, Ian!
    
    I tried a UMM a few months ago and found it *very* noisey with the
    piglet diesel throbbing away by my left knee.  Another problem that I
    said goodbye to when I sold the Series III was the very low roofline
    meant I had to adopt a Quasimodo position to see out.  This was further
    hindered by the afore mention three pendant wipers.
    
    I didn't get the chance to get it really muddy but it seemed quite
    capable.  Plenty of `grunt' and the ratios seemed reasonably well spaced. 
    I agree that the styling is pretty naff but then I think the G-Wagen is
    as well!  At present it doesn't have much of a track record for
    reliability but it is interesting to note that some farmers are now
    buying them in preference to the Solihull products.  There is a range
    of soft and hard top and the `station wagon' (hard top with windows!)
    but they all are functional.  
    
    It's always good to see newcomers to the scene (Iknow the Alter has
    been around for the best part of a decade) as I believe it makes the
    established manaufacturers re-appraise their products and it eventually
    improves the breed.
    
    I refuse to get into rat holes about part time/peramanent 4WD and
    towing caravan but I will continue to tow caravan with the 90 Turbo
    diesel!  'nuff said!

Re: .13


Horse boxes are usually a *lot* tougher than caravans....

	Re .16

	Actually I was thinking of the contents not the container ;-)

	JJ.

Land Rovers/Alters et al usually accelerate quite slowly, and, one thing and 
another being equal, are very horse friendly.