Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    The De Tomaso Pantera is powered by some Yank V8 (Ford?), due to 
    some historical link with whichever American company it is.
    
    I think the car was a Pinin Farina design and was alway considered a 
    bit of a second rate Italian exotica, due to the fact that it doesn't
    have some horribly unreliable Italian V12 in the boot. The handling
    and performance have always been pretty good and the latest Panteras
    are, if not quite the equal to, certainly very close to their more
    exotic and expensive Italian counterparts (Not that a De Tomaso is a 
    cheap car).
    
    De Tomaso's most famous car is probably the Mangusta which was a
    ludicrously impractical mid-engined GT sportscar, which really 
    established the make as a maker of exotica. Like most (All?) De
    Tomasos this also had an American V8 for motive power.
    
    Nice cars, if not posessing the value or finesse of the other Italian
    makes.
    
    Mark

    The Pantera is Gianpaolo Dallara's masterpiece after he left
    Lamborghini.
    
    Alejandro de Tomaso is an argentinian fellow who started as a race
    driver in the 60's. Soon he realized that he was doing better at a
    manager's desk than at the wheel of a F2 or F1. He moved to Italy and
    changed his first name to Alessandro (sounds more Italian). He made a
    fortune with a number of businesses including de Tomaso cars and other
    minor details such as Innocenti, MV Agusta, ... He and Lee Iacocco
    became friends. So Ford invested into Ghia and de Tomaso. The Pantera
    was 100% targetted at the US sports cars market. Ghia designed the body
    while Dallara did the rest. The Pantera is still there and was just
    recently facelifted.

So it's the Ghia badge I spotted, not the Ferina one.

It certainly sounds nice. Can't say I'm overly impressed with the looks
though ... a bit "slab-sided".

    The engine in these cars is in actual fact a Ford 351 "Cleveland" V8,
    originally produced in 1969 to power Fords Muscle cars like the 351
    Boss Mustang.  Development on this engine stopped in 1972 mainly due to
    the gulf crisis and rocketing petrol costs.  It still remains one of a
    few american V8's that was actually designed for performance.  The
    "351" as in most american engines refers to Cubic Inches, and equates
    to 5.8 litres.
    
      Of little interest I know, is the fact that even when you take
    different company's cylinder numbering conventions into account the
    "Cleveland" has a unique firing order.  This gives me trouble because
    the only V8 firing order I can remember is 18436572 which does for
    Chevies and Chryslers alike.
    
      I actually have 3 of these beasts, one of which is a de-stroked
    version that came from an aussie station wagon (302ci), and hopefully
    one day 1 of them will fire-up in my 427 AC Cobra replica (Dax)

    And the engine comes in 2 states of tune.  The standard De Thomaso
    is 350bhp (also used in the Longchaps GTS (Sp?) ) and the high 
    performance model!!! is 400bhp.
    
    Grant

Should be enough to put the hot-hatch brigade in their place!

This one is badges as GTS ...

Maybe I'll take a walk over and have a closer look at my neighbours
collection of cars ... this includes

 De Tomaso Pantera GTS
 Ferrari 3?? GTO
 A-H 3000
 Lotus 7
 BMW Z1
 Lancia ???
 2 Fiat 500s

and several other 'moders' for daily use by himself and family ...

� Ferrari 3?? GTO

    If this is a LHD Ferrari which looks similar to the 308 and 328 then it
    is in fact the 288� GTO. This *must* rank as one of the most beautiful
    and desirable cars ever - beaten only by the 250 GT LM ... I would
    willingly swap my complete set of VMS documentation for one of these
    :-) (and my house).

    		Rik

    �288
     \/^
     | +- 8 Cylinder
     +--- 2.8l Twin (?) Turbo Engine.

    
    Wasn't there an earlier GTO model, though?
    
    Maybe this is it?
    
    Sounds like an impressive collection, though.
    
    Mark

    I used to work in the US and one of my colleagues drove a Pantera
    as his regular transport. Italian styling, and American mechanicals was
    a pretty unbeatable combination in Tennessee..... everybody looked at
    it and the garage on the corner could keep the engine in tune. 
    
    He used to drive it on horrendously wide (something like 12" if my
    memory serves me right) cross plies and was so pi**ed off by the fact
    that the tyres generated flats when it sat in the garage overnight
    (they eventually went when the tyres warmed up) that he eventually went
    to the length of doing something about it. He set into the concrete
    floor of his garage four strategically placed hydraulic rams that, when
    the car was parked in the right place, would lift the car off its tyres
    and so prevent the flats which gave him the spine-jarring ride every
    day. How did he know when the car was in the right place? He hung two
    small rubber balls on bits of string from the roof and when these
    touched the edges of the screen pillars simultaneously he knew that he
    was aligned in the two horizontal axes and that the rams would contact
    the appropriate points to lift tha car without damage. 
    
    BTW isn't the manufacturer's name spelt de TOMASO?

	My favorite Dinky� car was a Mangusta.  The other year I was at
	Castle Combe when the De Tomasa owner's club were having their track
	day.  For me, they're the car equivalent of owning a lurcher, 
	disreputable, but fun.  Definitely a boy-racer's car.

	Dave

	�English toy car manufacturer, made cars around 1" long.

Yes, it is Tomaso ... anybody know how to edit the title ???

    Re. the collection:
    
    Not those others...
    
    but those wild Fiat 500s! Geez!
    
    - Jyri -

    
    I might be nit picking, but Dinky cars were/are about 4-5" long.
    
    Interestingly, both Corgi and Dinky made a Mangusta. The Dinky model
    was dayglo red/pink/orange (difficult to define which) and white and
    had opening panels over the engine and the corgi model was white and
    metallic blue and had a detatchable body shell, leaving a chassis which
    you could drive around on its own.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Oh and the gearstick moved on the Corgi too!
    

    Try Modify Note/Title="de Tomaso", but you'll need either moderator
    privilege or be the owner of the base note.

re: .13

I'm actually considering buying one of the Fiats. And not just because
this is the only one I can afford either :-)

re: .15

Oh yes !!!

    The ``other'' GTO was the 250 GTO.
    
    This is hailed by many at THE Ferrari.
    
    Front engined, V12.
    You could buy a sizable chunk of Kensington for what these thing go for
    these days ... about �8,000,000 (Thats Million) I think.
    
    (250 /= 2.5 litre, 0 cylinder !)

    I read that there is a 'Supercar Testday' at Goodwood on Easter Monday
    - usually plenty of Panteras, Countachs, all sorts of Ferraris and
    Porsches ....... heaven on earth ....
    
    Mark
    

    .17�    (250 /= 2.5 litre, 0 cylinder !)
    
    If one uses the 412/512 rule (4ltr/5ltr 12 cyl), 250 becomes :
    
    2 ltr
    50 cyl

�    2 ltr
�    50 cyl

    I went along to the Goodwood last Monday for the SuperCar test day....
    Beautiful day ....
    
    No De Tomasos (that WAS the base note wasn't it ???)
    
    but the haul included 1 beautiful Red Daytona, 3 LP500S Countachs (one
    in yuk pink), 1 LP400 Countach, a Red Anniversary Countach, a silver
    Espada, a bunch of 308 GTB's and GT4's, a lone lhd 208 GT4 and a pearl
    white Porsche 911 - reputed to have a Group 4 motor - that sounded like
    a tuned F16 !!! and went about as fast ....
    
    Highlight of the day was coming face to face in a narrow lane behind
    Goodwood, with a Red Alfa SZ - those things are  W  I  D  E ....
    
    Mark
    

    
    I often see a collection of cars as described in .21...
    
    But then I wake up.
    
    Mark

�    Espada, a bunch of 308 GTB's and GT4's, a lone lhd 208 GT4 and a pearl
               ^^^^^
    
    I've often wondered what the collective nown for Ferrari was :-)
    
    .. a brace of Porsche,
    .. a flock of M3's,

    .23�    I've often wondered what the collective nown for Ferrari was :-)
    .23�    
    .23�    .. a brace of Porsche,
    .23�    .. a flock of M3's,
    
    And apparently, inspired by another note...
    
    	    ... a lack of Cizeta's.
    
    
    Ian.

    .2�    The Pantera is Gianpaolo Dallara's masterpiece after he left
    .2�    Lamborghini.
    
    Forgot to add the brilliant work of (US citizen living in Italy) Tom 
    Tjaarda as chief designer.
    
    Most of De Tomaso's $$$ initially came from his wife, daughter of a 
    rich US family. Among De Tomaso's acquisitions: Maserati (from
    Citroen), Ghia, Innocenti, Benelli, Agusta, ...
    
    Currently De Tomaso's businesses are not going too well. Maserati is
    now owned at 49% level by FIAT. The Pantera is De Tomaso's most
    succesful car.

Re .17:

>    (250 /= 2.5 litre, 0 cylinder !)

250 is the engine capacity in cc's of each cylinder. Times 12 = 3 litres. 
This coding was used for all or most early Ferraris, eg the 750 Monza which 
was a 4-cylinder, i.e. also 3 litres. The various Dinos (eg 206, 246) and 
their successors (308 etc.) used the other system. I think the only current
Ferrari still identified in the old way is the 412i V12. 

Also seem to remember that the 'O' in GTO stood for 'Omologato' (sp?), i.e.
specially homologated competition version of the 250GT. 

 - Richard

    Re: .-1  Yeah, the O was for Omologato.  It was kind of a mistake, 
    though.  Ferrari, on their entry form listed the car as 250 GT O,
    to indicate the 250 GT was homologated.  The O became added after 
    the car became so successful and the fact that the programs listed 
    the 250 GT as the 250 GTO.
    
    But (DE TOMASO) incidently, I once heard that they made 500 Mangusta's.
    Each one a different color.   ??
         Bob