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Conference terri::cars_uk

Title:Cars in the UK
Notice:Please read new conference charter 1.70
Moderator:COMICS::SHELLEYELD
Created:Sun Mar 06 1994
Last Modified:Fri Jun 06 1997
Last Successful Update:Fri Jun 06 1997
Number of topics:2584
Total number of notes:63384

1337.0. "AWDC - All Wheel Drive Club" by TRUCKS::SMART (Beware the passing bandwagon) Thu Jan 10 1991 13:20

    Following my note in the Land Rover topic 449.125 I thought I would
    expand the off road theme.

    The All Wheel Drive Club (AWDC) was formed in the early seventies and
    caters for ALL off road vehicles.  Their main aim is to provide off
    road motor sport and support a responsible green lane policy by
    campaigning to keep vehicular rights of way open.

    Memebership costs (if memeory serves me right) �19 pa for memeber and
    associate (spouse) and for that you get a bi-monthly newsletter and
    monthly competition newsletter.

    Membership details from:	AWDC Membership'
    				AWDC FREEPOST,
    				Bath,
    				BA2 9JZ.

    or call Liz Hurley on 0761 71159.  It's better to call her in the
    evening as she has to work to support her Series 1 Land-Rover!!

    The main types of competition events are:

    Trial:  Where the vehicles have to complete a course without leaving
    the course, touching the markers or stopping on the course.  There are
    varying degrees of difficulty depending on the level of modification of
    the vehicle: Standard Road Taxed, Non Standard Road Taxed and Modified.

    Safari:  This is a cross country speed event for (very) modified
    vehicles.  There is also a two wheel drive class that is mainly filled
    by VW engined buggies although one brave man campaigns a Citroen 2CV...

    There are night trials, timed trials and mini safaris that are all
    variations on the above as well as Fun Trials that have to be seen to
    be believed - sections that have to driven blindfold, driven backwards
    and towing tests - all underline the good humoured nature of the Club.

    There are also local pub meets for "noggin 'n' natter" nights.  The
    club also has an extensive video library of off road events.
    
T.RTitleUserPersonal
Name
DateLines
1337.1Forthcoming eventsTRUCKS::SMARTBeware the passing bandwagonThu Jan 10 1991 13:2213
    AWDC Events notified to date are:

    Date	Event	Class	Venue

    Jan 13	Trial	Std	Arena Essex, Dartford
    Jan 20	Trial	Non Std	Chartin House, East Grinstead

    Feb  3	Trial	All	Temple Mill Farm, Banbury
    		Trial	All	Dale Side Farm, Hawnby, Cleveland
    Feb 10	TBA
    Feb 17	Trial	TBA	Yetnor Farm, Maidstone, Kent
    Feb 24	Trial	TBA	Sidbury Hill, Tidworth, Wiltshire
    
1337.2daihatsuODDONE::THOMSON_JThu Jan 10 1991 14:254
    on the subject of four wheel drive do you have any opinions/experiences
    on the Daihatsu fourtrak's
    
    regards John
1337.3BRABAM::PHILPOTTCol I F 'Tsingtao Dhum' PhilpottThu Jan 10 1991 14:3927
I recently attended two Daihatsu "Tough Tests" and found it fun to drive the 
Daihatsu Fourtraks around. On the first occasion (fine weather after a few 
days of rain) the ground conditions were perfect and the FT performed 
beautifully.

On the second occasion, in the rain, they tended to get stuck a lot and needed 
frequently to be pulled out by the local farmer's Land Rovers.

That said I find them rather good off road, especially the short wheel base 
variants. However the shorty is a bit short of internal storage space, though 
I suppose you could put a briefcase behind the back seat. Of course space is 
reasonable with the seat folded. You'd have to consider it a 2+2 rather than 
a workable 4 seater. Turning circle however is very good, making it good for 
town traffic, manouevring in car parks etc, as well as weaving between the 
obstacles off road that other vehicles like Land Rover 110s will have to 
climb over or perform n-point turn manouevres to avoid them.

I've heard some adverse comments on build quality, but then again, I've heard 
farmers say they are OK (especially as they are a few thousand quid cheaper 
than the LR equivalent)

/. Ian .\

footnote: my brother-in-law, in Thailand, is a Daihatsu/Isuzu distributor and
he insists that they work very well in the frankly appaling road conditions out 
there.
1337.4thanksODDONE::THOMSON_JThu Jan 10 1991 16:515
    Ian thanks for the info looks like my mind is prety much  set on on it
    seems very cheep on the car scheme , and as i have always wanted four
    wheel drive  nows the time :>)
    
    /jt
1337.5Daihatsu dilemmaTRUCKS::SMARTBeware the passing bandwagonThu Jan 10 1991 17:1419
    John,
    
    The only observation that I have is they lack ground clearance for
    *serious* off road work but as Ian says this doesn't seem to detract
    from the performance of the swb version.
    
    Despite some poor publicity about "falling over" the Suzuki SJ is
    a very competant performer for the average user although it lacks
    power from its 1200cc (I think) engine whereas the Daihatsu offers
    more "man sized" petrol and diesel versions.
    
    I know a lady who tows a single horse box with a Sportrak Turbo
    diesel and she raves about it but she's never taken up my offer
    to come to an AWDC trial 8-).
    
    BTW the Daihatsu is only a part time 4wd system and has no centre
    diff and therefore the tranmission is liable to "wind up" on sealed
    surfaces.  I think I am right in saying only L-R offer full time
    4wd.
1337.6BRABAM::PHILPOTTCol I F 'Tsingtao Dhum' PhilpottThu Jan 10 1991 17:2116
the only other street legal full time four wheel drives are the Mercedes 
G-Wagen and the bigger version of the Toyota Land Cruiser - both costing �25000
plus. (Plus some "commercial" vehicles - equally expensive)

Incidentally if you feel that the short wheel base and off road suspension
of the Daihatsu will give you a rough ride on highway there is a firm selling
"tuned" seat suspension units for about �200 - you dial in your body weight
and they even out the suspension lumps (a similar idea is used on some
commercial trucks). The result is a seriously smooth ride.

Incidentally the FourTrak quote on VTX at the moment is for a 2 litre petrol
version, which some think is under powered ...

/. Ian .\

1337.7ODDONE::THOMSON_JThu Jan 10 1991 17:295
    well who's  *serious * about off  road that means getting muddy ??
    
    being serious what do you mean by "winding up"
    /jt
    
1337.8Who's for a wind up?TRUCKS::SMARTBeware the passing bandwagonFri Jan 11 1991 08:4324
    "Winding up' of tranmission is due to there being no centre
    differential thus both front and rear prop shafts have to rotate
    at the same speed regardless of the load placed on them.
    
    On a loose surface wheel spin is the resultant but on a sealed surface
    tyre scrub occurs.  When cornering each wheel has a slightly different
    distance to travel.  In two wheel drive the axle diff takes care of it
    but when you are trying to rotate both axles at the same speed undue
    stresses are placed on the drive train and this is known as wind up. 
    
    You can tell a part time system that has had a lot of use in this
    mode by looking at the front tyres, particularly if the are block
    type tread or shoulders.  The blocks wear with a 45� chamfer that
    is very noticable.                                                  
    
    The L-R 90 and 110 have a centre diff lock for when the going gets
    really tough!
    
    Ian, thanks for the refresher.  I tend to forget about the Merc as it
    is way beyond most people's means (like a Vogue SE?). 
    
    
    
    
1337.9BRABAM::PHILPOTTCol I F 'Tsingtao Dhum' PhilpottFri Jan 11 1991 09:4456
Winding up:

A normal axle has a diff so that the wheels on each end can rotate at different 
speeds when going round corners. Similarly the front and rear axles try to 
rotate at different speeds on anything but a straight road. Without a centre 
diff this can cause the transmission to act as a diff, or at least try to, and
the gear box seizes up in a condition known as wind up (or alternatively the
drive shafts can get a spiral metal fatigue crack, which is the origin of the
term and a notorious problem with old Land Rovers.)

Part time 4x4s come in two varieties: older style ones (old Landys, Jeep CJs,
UMM Alters and Daihatsus) have a permanently locked centre diff (ie no diff at 
all) which is desirable off road as otherwise one wheel losing grip will result 
in you getting stuck (only the spinning wheel will receive drive). Such
vehicles have to engage 4 wheel drive either stationary or at a low speed in
a straight line. This is in fact the strongest, and some would argue that for
off road use it is the best solution.

Modern "poseur" 4x4s have "engage on the fly" four wheel drive that can be
engaged at any reasonable speed as you drive along. This means that the 
engagement system must cope with the fact that the front axle may be moving at 
a different speed to the back, and hence they need a diff which cannot be 
permanently locked. Hence in practice they have limited slip centre diffs 
which are not so capable off road (they can still leave you with only a 
spinning wheel driven).

If you have a shift at rest style system (Daihatsu) then you should not engage
4wd except off road or in muddy/snowy/rainy conditions on road (where a bit of
wheel spin can occur to stop the wind up). If you have a shift on the fly system 
you could probably leave it in 4wd most of the time but it really isn't 
recomended.

The final complication is that even with a locked centre diff (modern Landy 
etc) or no diff (Daihatsu, UMM, old Landy) you can lose drive when one wheel 
on each axle loses grip and spins. This can be obviated (Landy, Landy Discovery
Range Rover, UMM Alter) by the provision of limited slip diff on the back axle
but the real solution is to provide "cross axle" diff locks, either on both 
axles or just the back one (the UMM alter has this option, the military Landys
have a Torsen "torque sensor" on the back which is nearly as good, the
Merc G-wagen has cross axle diffs front and back and a firm called ARB 
("Australian Roo Bar") make an after market set up for a lot of vehicles.

This problem is most apparent with vehicles with less axle articulation, which
perhaps is why Landys have less need for this addition.

Finally some pure off road vehicles (the RTV, the Supacat 6wd, and a few others
I could think of) have permanently locked centre and selectable cross axle 
diffs - they cannot go fast on highway but usually avoid wind up by having 
very low pressure tyres which take up the wind up strains instead of the rigid 
components.

And of course their is the solution Renault chose with the Quaddra version of 
the Espace where wind up is absorbed by using a flexible plastic drive shaft!

/. Ian .\
1337.10One motor sport at a time!VOGON::MITCHELLEBeware of the green meanieFri Jan 11 1991 09:459
    
    I have attented trials and comp safaries run by Land-Rover Clubs, and
    have really enjoyed them - but I'm usually only there as spectator, my
    brother is the driver, but I have been 'navigator' for him. He runs a
    Series 1, with it's original engine, and does very well with it!)
    I have had a go off-road with my old Landy, and would like to do more, 
    but I think we can only tackle one motor sport at a time :-).  If there 
    are any localish (to Reading) events, on weekends we are not racing or 
    doing emergeny repairs I'll try to attend!
1337.11AWDC HotlineTRUCKS::SMARTBeware the passing bandwagonFri Jan 11 1991 13:3210
    A vital bit of information I neglected to put in my opening note:
    AWDC have an events hotline with recorded information on all club
    activities. Call 0252 620990.
    
    I've just called and got the full sp on the event this weekend at
    Essex Arena.  The hotline details classes, secretaries of the event(s)
    and their phone numbers, clerk of the corse and what facilities
    are on site.
    
    It's usually updated on a Monday with the coming week's events.
1337.12AWDC Competition Events LatestTRUCKS::SMARTBeware the passing bandwagonMon Feb 04 1991 13:0431
The AWDC events newsletter arrived this weekend. Fixtures are:

    Date	Event	Class	Venue

    Feb 10	Trial	All	Nethercott Farm, Bampton, Devon
    Feb 17	Trial	TBA	Yetnor Farm, Maidstone, Kent
		Mini Safari	Piccadilly Farm, Cheltenham
    Feb 24	Trial	All	Sidbury Hill, Tidworth, Wiltshire
		Trial	All	Long Wood Farm, Cheltenham

    Mar  3	Trial	All	Rogerly Quarry, Stanhope, Lincs
    		Trial	TBA	Clyro, Powys
    		
    Mar 10	Safari	Champ	Arena Essex, off M25 @ Dartford Tunnel
    Mar 17	Trial	TBA	West Harptree, Bath		
    		Trial	TBA	Gotwick Wood, East Grinstead
    Mar 24	Trial	TBA	Bridgetown, Cannock
    		Trial	TBA	Minehead, Devon
    Mar 31	TBA

    Events for April and May are very sketchy.  Those that are firm are:

    Apr 14	Trail		Hampton Park, Leominster

    May 12	Trial		Manby, Nr Louth, Lincs
    May 19	trial		Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire


    Also worth a mention is the Sandocross at Weston-super-Mare April 28th.
    
    
1337.13Trial by porridge?TRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Wed Feb 27 1991 14:0953

    AWDC Trial - Sidbury Hill, 24th Feb

    It was cold, wet, windy and the driving conditions could best be
    described as "interesting".  Actually, it was like driving on porridge! 
    We were not competing this time, but we did marshall some of the
    sections.  Even on the drive between the sections you had to pick your
    route carefully so that you did not stop in the middle of a quagmire
    with the risk of not getting going again!  Sidbury is mainly chalk
    under a thin layer of grassy clay.  In many areas the grass has been
    stripped away as the Army use ths as a training ground for both wheeled
    and track laying vehicles.  When we trialed there last August it was
    like driving on talcum powder!

    Three classes were contested: modified, standard road taxed and
    non-standard road taxed.  We didn't see too much of the modifieds but
    the bit I did see they had laid out some fairly demanding sections
    especially considering the conditions.

    The road taxed classes followed roughly the same course but with some
    of the potentially more damaging sections toned down for the standard
    class.  The tank trap proved to be a great crowd puller with about two
    feet of chalk slurry in the bottom and entrance and exit slopes of
    between 30� to 45� which got trickier as they got wetter.

    The next section *looked* tame until the first vehcle broke the
    surface!  There was the porridge!  A couple of Merc Gwagens with their
    diff locks struggled through - in more experienced hands it would have
    been a doddle.  The V8 90 romped through as did some of the lightweight
    Suzukis.  Some of the Range Rovers had to be pulled out but generally
    the skill level of the RR drivers was not up to the same level as the
    LRs and Suzukis. (Stand by for barage of mails!)  It was on this stage
    I really started to notice a young couple in their G reg Suzuki Vitara. 
    Oh dear!  Get stuck was an understatement!

    As the day went on the Vitara got stuck more frequently - the terrain
    was just too difficult for this very low slung little vehicle.  On a
    later stage it got totally grounded with all four wheels clear of the
    ground!  The section had been designed across a tank track so there
    were two furrows about a foot deep and about 100 inched apart.  Guess
    what?  The Range Rovers all got hung up! The 90s had no problem as did
    the group of 109/110 LWB Land Rovers.  For the more experienced who
    took the trouble to walk the course before attempting it they would
    have realised that the gates were wide enough to allow the track to be
    taken at an angle and not get hung up.  Lesson for next time.

    We didm't stay for the final results - we were too cold and out of
    coffee!  When Marshalling you can hide in your vehcle with the heater
    running as some of the spectators were doing.

    Generally a good day was had by all!
    
1337.14Next one?VOGON::MITCHELLEBeware of the green meanieWed Feb 27 1991 14:314
    
    Sounds a good day out - when's the next one? - I enjoy going to these
    events, but racing the 23 seams to take up a lot of weekends, (and
    weekdays, and evenings..... )
1337.15CHEFS::CLEMENTSDPublic Sector and TelecommsWed Feb 27 1991 15:481
    not to mention money, it would seem....... ;-)
1337.16...and another garage to keep it in, and.....VOGON::MITCHELLEBeware of the green meanieThu Feb 28 1991 08:409
    
>>    not to mention money, it would seem....... ;-)
    
      we don't mention money.... I think if we added it all up we'd decide
    that we couldn't afford it!
    
    I suppose I could always 'off-road' the Landy on non race weekends,
    ...but then I'd want another Landy to tow the racer, and a heavy duty
    trailer, and lots of space to store the spare wings etc......
1337.17Off Roading at AWDC EventsTRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Fri Mar 01 1991 13:0419
    .12 details the events calender for the AWDC.
    
    All Wheel Driver, the AWDC mag arrived in the post yesterday but
    I didn't get a chance to read it.  I will update the events calender
    from that and post it here and add all the pub meets that are listed
    as well.
    
    To attend the trials and safari meetings you don't have to be a member
    and if the event allows there is the opportunity to drive between the
    sections in your own vehicle.  Safaris tend not to have drive arounds
    for safety reasons.  The only word of advice I would give is take it
    steady (low box 2nd and 3rd most times) and forget it if you have road
    pattern tyres - we pulled a Range Rover out at one point.  He was
    struggling on *very* worn XM&S.  Our 90 is on a half worn set of
    XM&S and had no trouble at all!
    
    Hope to see you all at the next event.
    
    Alan 
1337.19It's normally *FREE*TRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Mon Mar 04 1991 13:0214
    Re .18
    
    There are no charges at normal competative AWDC events - RAC regulations
    prohibit this.. I think you may be thinking of the events they have
    run in the past like the Mansell Lacey weekends and last year's
    open day at Long Valley, Aldershot.  These were not competative
    events but "fun" days aimed at promoting the club.  For these AWDC
    membership was needed to ensure that you were covered for insurance
    purposes.
    
    Forgot to bring in All Wheel Driver (sorry!) to update the diary
    of events.  Easter weekend sees an all classes trial and a safari
    at Long Valley.  I will *try* to remember it tomorrow - there's
    an article in there about green laneing with a Scammell.....
1337.20Still considering the Jeep - one week to decideCHEST::RUTTERRut-The-NutMon Mar 04 1991 13:1610
�    events but "fun" days aimed at promoting the club.  For these AWDC
    
    My comment was based on the 'Fun Trial' over Christmas.
    
    I didn't realise AWDC events were otherwise free.
    
    Seems odd that RAC reg's prohibit this, when all rallies charge
    an entry fee (to pay the 'criminally-high' charge to Forestry Commission).
    
    J.R.
1337.21VOGON::MITCHELLEBeware of the green meanieMon Mar 04 1991 13:534
    
    I don't know about AWDC events, but the LRC Club I belong to does
    practically all it's trials/comp safaries/recoverys on private farm
    land, so maybe that is why they are not allowed to charge.
1337.22AWDC Events CalenderTRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Tue Mar 05 1991 13:0344
    As promised, the AWDC latest events calender
    
    
        		
    Mar 10	Safari	Champ	Arena Essex, off M25 @ Dartford Tunnel
    Mar 17	Trial	All 	West Harptree, Bath		
    		Trial	Mod	Gotwick Wood, East Grinstead
    Mar 24	Trial	All	Bridgetown, Cannock
    		Trial	All	Minehead, Devon
    Mar 30	Safari	Champ	Long Valley, Aldershot
    Mar 31	Trial	All	Long Valley, Aldershot


    Apr  1	Trial	All	Piccadilly Farm, Cheltenham
    Apr  7	Trial	All	Pen-Y-Fan, Pontypool
    		Safari	Mini	Warden Law, Durham
    Apr 14	Trail	All	Hampton Park, Leominster
                           
    Then things get a little vague....
    
    May 5/6	Trial		South east
    		Trial 		South west
    May 12	Trial		Manby, Nr Louth, Lincs
    		Trial		Wales
    May 19	Trial		Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial		Midlands
    May 26	Safari		North east region
    May 27	Trial		North east region
    
    Jun  2	Trial		Weavers Down, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial		Wales
    Jun  9	Trial		Bristol area
    Jun 15/6	Trial		Midlands area
    Jun 23	Trial		Western area
    		Trial		North east area
    
    Don't forget the AWDC hotline for details of this weekend's events
    
    		0252 620990


    Also worth a mention is the Sandocross at Weston-super-Mare April 28th.
    
    
1337.23AWDC Events newsTRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Wed Mar 27 1991 13:3563
    There is a proposed Green Lane weekend in Wiltshire planned for
    April/May.  If you are interested (and an AWDC member) call Liz Hurley
    on 0761 71159.


    Mar 30	Safari	Champ	Long Valley, Aldershot
    Mar 31	Trial	All	Long Valley, Aldershot


    Apr  1	Trial	All	Piccadilly Farm, Cheltenham
    Apr  7	Trial	All	Pen-Y-Fan, Pontypool
    		Safari	Mini	Warden Law, Durham
    Apr 14	Trail	All	Hampton Park, Leominster
		Trial	Mod,RTV	Smeatharpe Stadium, Chard, Somerset
    Apr  21	Safari	Champ	Bovington, Dorset
    
    May 5/6	Trial	All	Pikwell Park, Bolney, Sussex
			+ night trial, trade stands, auto jumble, camping
    		Trial 	All	Sallicombe Farm, Sidmouth
			+ team recovery
    May 12	Trial	All	Manby, Nr Louth, Lincs
    		Trial	All	Cwm-Clyd, Lledrod, Wales
		Trial	RTV,Mod	Stanton House, Morpeth, Northumberland.
    May 19	Trial	RTV,Int	Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial	All	Ratley Gun Club, Banbury.

    Then things get a little vague....

    May 26	Safari		Warden Law, Sunderland
    May 27	Trial		Warden Law, Sunderland
    
    Jun  2	Trial		Weavers Down, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial		Wales
    Jun  9	Trial		Bristol area
    Jun 15/6	Trial,Safari	Herefod 4x4 show (see below)
    Jun 23	Trial		Western area
    		Trial		North east area
    
    Don't forget the AWDC hotline for details of this weekend's events
    
    		0252 620990


    Also worth a mention is the Sandocross at Weston-super-Mare April 28th.
    
    Then there is the Hereford 4x4 off road show, 15th & 16th June at Hope
    under Dinmore on the Leominster to Hereford road.

    	*  AWDC Comp safari
    	*  AWDC trial
    	*  Trade Stands
    	*  Static displays
    	*  Arena displays
    	*  Refreshments
    	*  Satuday night entertainment

    Entrance fee �2 each, on site camping �5 for the weekend.

    Call Steve Monkley for more details 0531 84302, 0586 84372.

    All proceeds to the Parkinsons Disease Society.

    
1337.24CRATE::RUTTERRut The NutTue Apr 23 1991 19:2465
    'Official' statements on use of 'green lanes' copied from the AWDC Yearbook.
    
    RIGHTS OF WAY POLICY STATEMENT
    
    1. To preserve and protect AWDC members (and by so doing the general
       public's) rights to use and enjoy those highways that are 'Roads
       Used As Public Paths' (RUPP), 'Byways Open To all Traffic' (BOAT),
       and unclassified county roads as defined by the appropriate statutes.
    
    2. To promote the responsible use of those highways which provide
       valuable access to the countryside and to discourage activities
       harmful to the environment and wildlife.
    
    3. To oppose the closure or downgrading of any of the above highways
       that the Club considers worthwhile as public rights of way.
    
    4. Maintain records of use, condition and history of RUPPS and BOATs
       and county roads.
    
    5. To make representations to the relevant highway authorities to have
       any obstructions removed.
    
    6. To remove all obstructions, where this is practical, with the prior
       agreement of the highway authority and any other interested parties.
    
    7. to liaise with other interested organisations or clubs and co-ordinate
       actions by members of these bodies in pursuance of the above aims.
    
    
    TO ACHIEVE THIS POLICY
    
    1. It is up to all individual members to check the status of rights of
       way at the County Halls, or with local RoW representatives, if you
       have one.  Not all RUPP's have vehicular rights.
    
    2. Use Rights of Way in small groups, no more than four of five vehicles.
       Act responsibly - remember - you area all ambassadors of the AWDC.
    
    3. Drive at a speed appropriate to the conditions and visibilty.
       Do not exceeed 25 mph.
    
    4. All vehicles must be taxed, insured and MOT'd.  Tyres must be road
       legal.  Green lanes are public roads.
    
    5. Close all gates.  Some have a right to be there, others don't.
       Report locked gates.
    
    6. Stop for walkers and horse riders.  Switch off engines while horses pass.
    
    7. If you remove low branches etc., leave them on the side of the track,
       don't throw them over a hedge.  They are the property of the landowner.
    
    8. Be polite to people you meet.  Don't antagonise landowners,
       and other users.
    
    9. The use of winches should be very carefully considered.  If it is
       necessary use a ground anchor if possible.  Ensure that whatever
       anchor point is used is strong enough to take on the task.  Do not
       use small trees or farm fences.  If you have to use a large tree
       ensure a wrapped strap is used and not a rope, chain or wire.
       Your priority should be to avoid damage to trees, walls or the
       surface while recovering.
    
    10. Respect the life of the countryside, they are the valuable habitat
       of many animals.
1337.25Latest AWDC FixturesTRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Thu May 02 1991 14:0480
    From the lataest edition of All Wheel Driver, the AWDC magazine, these
    are the fixtures as notified.
        
    May 5/6	Trial	All	Pikwell Park, Bolney, Sussex
			+ night trial, trade stands, auto jumble, camping
    		Trial 	All	Sallicombe Farm, Sidmouth
			+ team recovery
    May 12	Trial	All	Manby, Nr Louth, Lincs
    		Trial	All	Cwm-Clyd, Lledrod, Wales
		Trial	RTV,Mod	Stanton House, Morpeth, Northumberland.
    May 19	Trial	RTV,Int	Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial	All	Ratley Gun Club, Banbury.
    May 26	Safari		Warden Law, Sunderland
    May 27	Trial		Warden Law, Sunderland
    
    Jun  2	Trial	RTV,Mod	Weavers Down, Bordon, Hampshire
    			Beginners
    			Heavy vehicle trial
    Jun  2      Trial	All	Clearwell Farm, Coleford, Wales
    Jun  9	Trial	All,Beg	West Harptree, Bath
    Jun 15/6	Trial,Safari	Herefod 4x4 show (see below)
    Jun 23	Trial		Western area
    		Trial		North east area
    Jun 30	Trial		South East

Then things get a little vague....

    Jul  7	Safari		Pickwell Park, West Sussex.
    Jul 14	Mini Saf	Wales
    		Mini Saf	North East
    Jul 21	Trial		West
    Jul 28	Trial		Devon
    		Trial		Midlands

    Aug  4	Safari		Minehead
    Aug 11	Trial		Wales
    		Trial 		Devon
    		Mini Saf	North East
    Aug 14	Open Day	Long Valley, Aldershot
    Aug 24-26	Trial,Safari	Somewhere but NOT Sidbury Hill.

    Sep  1	Trial		North East
    		Trial 		Midlands
    Sep  8	Trial		Devon
    Sep 15	Safar		Peters Pit, Maidstone.
    Sep 22	Trial		Wales
    		Trial		North East
    Sep 28/9	Trial 		Bovington - joint meeting with Military
    				Vehicle Preservation Trust

    Oct  6	Trial		Devon
    Oct 12/3	Safari		Long Valley, Aldershot
    Oct 20	Trial		Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial		North East
    
    Don't forget the AWDC hotline for details of this weekend's events
    
    		0252 620990


    
    Then there is the Hereford 4x4 off road show, 15th & 16th June at
    Hampton Park, Hope  under Dinmore on the Leominster to Hereford road.

    	*  AWDC Comp safari
    	*  AWDC trial
    	*  Trade Stands
    	*  Static displays
    	*  Arena displays
    	*  Refreshments
    	*  Satuday night entertainment

    Entrance fee �2 each, on site camping �5 for the weekend.

    Call Steve Monkley for more details 0531 84302, 0586 84372.

    All proceeds to the Parkinsons Disease Society.

    
1337.26AWDC 'trials'CRATE::RUTTERRut The NutMon May 20 1991 13:5140
Since I have now completed my first All-Wheel-Drive-Club trial, I thought I'd
enter information on what it involved and how I got on.

First, a general description of 'what' an AWDC trial is.

The trial is a competitive event based on 'arduous' terrain, consisting
of a number (eight or more) of individual sections to be attempted.

Each section is a route marked out with pairs of canes.  The object being
to get to the end of the route without stopping, going backwards, or touching
any of the canes.  Also, you are not allowed to drive [the whole vehicle]
outside of the course, defined as being direct lines between subsequent canes,
although extra canes can be used to indicate where this is permitted/required.

From the start of the section, the pairs of canes are numbered in decreasing
order from 10 down to 1.  If you get through the whole section, you get a zero
penalty.  If you stop, go out-of-bounds, or touch a cane, then you are given
a penalty according to the last numbered pair of canes you had passed.  If you
get the hub of either front wheel through a line between a pair of canes, then
you are deemed to have 'passed' that pair of canes.

If you do not attempt any of the sections, you are awarded the maximum penalty
of 10 points for that section.  There are different classes within the event,
your entry being determined according to your wheelbase and whether you are
using a 'Road-Taxed-Vehicle' (RTV) or a 'modified'.  If you are in a vehicle
with a wheelbase of 100" or more (ie a Range Rover), then you are entitled to
take a 'shunt' when on a section.  This means that you can do a 'three point
turn' to negotiate particularly tight turns, although you have to agree this
with the marshal(s) before starting the section.

The route of each section consists of tight bends, humps, ditches, slopes, drops
and mud-holes strung together in an order thought up by some sadist who *knows*
how to drive their off-road vehicle, thus causing problems for those who don't. 
As a result, most people will not manage to clear all sections.  If they could,
it would all be far too easy.  ;-)

There are other rules and different types of event, but the above is enough
to describe what I was letting myself in for when I entered this weekend.

J.R.
1337.27AWDC trial preparation requirementsCRATE::RUTTERRut The NutMon May 20 1991 13:5144
Before trying to describe what the event was like, I'll first describe my
vehicle and the preparation needed to enter.

I have a Jeep CJ7, which has a 4.2 litre, in-line 6-cylinder engine and an
automatic gearbox.  This particular model has 'permanent' four-wheel-drive,
as opposed to 'part-time' 4-w-d.  The tyres fitted to it are quite a bit
larger than standard and stand at 33" tall (overall diameter) and of 12" width.

For entry in the 'RTV' trials class, a tow rope must be provided and the vehicle
needs to be fitted with towing points front and rear.  It is preferred that
these are not simply standard tow-balls, as the rope may slip off these.
An alternative is to mount a 'normal' tow-ball on top of the bumper, so that
it points towards the vehicle, or to use a rope shackle mounted through some
convenient point on the frame of the vehicle.  Whatever is used, the method
of mounting MUST be secure, as if it breaks when in use it can be extremely
hazardous to your health if you are attacked by a flying tow-ball !
The throttle must be fitted with an additional return spring, in case of any
breakage in the linkage. Other than that, the vehicle must basically be of
an MoT standard.

Requirements in other classes consists of things such as roll-cage, fire
extinguisher, harnesses and so on.  These are not needed for the class that
I was entering.  In the 'higher' classes, it is recommended that the
battery earth cable is marked yellow, to allow easy identification if it
needs to be cut or disconnected.  Since it is an easy job to do, wrapping
yellow tape around the correct battery lead seemed worth doing.

Besides the official requirements, normal off-road preparation is needed to
help avoid getting into trouble from performing the silly antics on the day.
The main priority here is in waterproofing the electrical components under
the bonnet, and also in keeping water/mud out of the air intake.  Failure
to make sure of the latter could easily result in an expensive repair bill.
Also, it is often advantageous to lower the air pressure in the tyres so that
more tread area is in contact with the ground, and so the tyre is more able
to deform, matching the terrain it is going over.

As the vehicle is fitted with a central diff (not usually present on a
part-time 4wd vehicle), this needs to be 'locked' when off-road.
If this is not done, a supposed four-wheel-drive vehicle can be
immmobilised simply by lifting one wheel clear of the ground (unless
some form of slip-limiting device is fitted to any of the diff's).  Of course,
just locking the central diff only increases this to 'two-wheel-drive'...

J.R.
1337.28Event Report - My First TrialCRATE::RUTTERRut The NutMon May 20 1991 15:02185
The event (RTV trial) I entered was at Broxhead Common, near Bordon, Hants.

This is only a 20-minute drive from home, so I wasn't venturing
too far afield, in case I broke something !  Before starting, I
fixed a rubber floor-mat in front of the radiator grille (to keep
water from the engine bay, where the machanical fan would throw it
everywhere - need to change for an electric fan with a kill switch).
I also disconnected the air intake 'snorkel' and positioned that in
an area of the engine bay which would hopefully stay dry.

Section 1

	Started by wading out through 12-24" of mud/water, before going
	through some 'twisty bits' between trees.  This involved a sequence
	of 180-degree bends with the route going over humps/dips between
	them.  I managed to get through to the final pair of canes before
	getting it wrong, not turning soon enough to get through, although
	I got a front wheel between the canes, resulting in a penaly of 1.

Section 2

	This one began by entering a mud hole which was quite simple, but
	had a few ruts which were best avoided.  It then went along an
	easy bit of track before going over one hump and then coming to
	a drop into a dip.  The edge of this dip was the remains of a wall
	and threatened to catch on some part of the vehicle underside.
	I got over this ok and kept the correct line for the next part,
	although when I later went over the same ledge, it caught the
	rear bumper and changed my direction by almost 45 degrees !
	Next bit got tricky with a drop into some ruts, followed by a turn
	back into a steep bank.  The Jeep ground out its belly when cresting
	this rise, but powered on through it, to another immediate turn down
	into some thick mud.  The route then turned again to reach the
	final pair of canes.  I couldn't manage this turn from where I
	had ended up, but again got the front wheel through for another 1.

Section 3

	Had trouble finding this one, then parked at the end of a long queue
	of vehicles waiting to attempt this section.  When watching others
	on this, it was clear that it contained a very sharp turn with trees
	restricting the approach and the actual corner.  In fact, many of the
	Suzuki's could not get through.  Those that did were then confronted
	by a *serious* mud hole which trapped every vehicle that I saw try it.
	There was a Dodge 4x4 on hand to pull these competitors out of the
	mud and since the next vehicle could not start until the course was
	clear, the queue went down very slowly.  In the end, the section was
	stopped and everyone waiting had to move on to the next section.
	It turns out the reason for the stoppage was that the marshal with
	the Dodge had almost run out of petrol and had to go and fill up !

Section 4

	This started with an immediate 45-degree climb up a slope, which
	had to be taken at a bit of an angle to keep on line for the next
	pair of canes.  When I did it, the Jeep ground out on the way over
	and came out of it pointing in a direction I did not intend.  Due
	to the short distance between where I was and the next set of canes,
	I could not get the Jeep to turn enough and failed to get there.
	This resulted in a poor 9-point penalty.

Section 5

	The route on this one went diagonally across a hump and then turned
	past a tree towards a series of ruts taken at an angle ('axle-twisters'
	which require good axle articulation).  On this one I got the steering
	wrong when crossing the hump and passing the tree.  It resulted in me
	having no chance of getting to the next set of canes, so I got an 8.

Section 6

	The start of this one was from atop a 'hump', requiring a steep descent
	into a sharp left turn.  This was followed by a series of ruts which
	had to be taken at an angle ('axle-twisters', requiring good axle
	articulation).  Unfortunately, I got another 9-point penalty by
	failing to get the right approach to the tight turn.  This was a place
	where Range Rovers all made use of their permitted 'shunt'.

Section 7

	This one also began with a short drop into a left turn.  I was concerned
	that I would not get around this initial bend either, but managed that,
	into a climb up a bank and a 180-degree turn before coming down the bank
	and yet another 180.  This then led into a bumpy section which went
	over a row of gullies - across, not down, the incline.  The Jeep went
	over the first crest easliy enough, but when it came down into the
	gully, it bottomed out quite hard.  Hard enough to result in my seat
	back breaking !  I was still going, so I hung onto the wheel and hit
	the power to get over the next, steeper, crest.  The front went up
	into the air rather than going down the other side, but when the back
	wheels hit the hump at the top, this pivoted the vehicle around,
	in the air, so that I came down the other side.  When landing this
	time, the door sprung open !  Only one pair of canes to go, I was
	still travelling in the right direction and aimed through the canes,
	sitting upright, with an inoperative seat back and a wide open door.
	I actually got through those canes and got a zero penalty.
	My first clear section, though definitely not uneventful !
	The seat back was fixed up well enough to continue, so off I went.

Section 8

	This section had another long queue, again because it involved most
	vehicles being recovered from a mud-hole at the end of the section.
	This mud hole was actually a huge great 'puddle', about 40 foot in
	diameter and with no easy route through it.  There was a very large
	crowd watching the goings-on as different vehicles all tried to get
	through.  There were a lot of 'heroic failures' here, involving
	Land Rovers, Range Rovers, Suzuki and Daihatsu 'jeeps'.  In the hour
	or more that I was waiting, I only saw three get through.  One of these
	was a Daihatsu and another was an old (Series II) Land Rover.  These
	both struggled extremely hard to get out the far side.  The other
	vehicle was a Range Rover, which took a different (less used, but
	deeper) line through the middle and powered its way through.

	Anyway, I eventually moved my vehicle near to the front of the queue
	and could not spectate at the mud hole any more.  Sitting there,
	waiting to start this section really got the nerves going.  The mud
	hole at the end of the section was *very* intimidating.  I had decided
	that even if I failed earlier in the section, I would 'have a go' at
	the mud hole anyway.  I also chose to put on the soft-top for this
	section.  The vehicle ahead of me was a Suzuki Vitara, on road tyres.
	This had done quite well so far, but it was clear it had no chance of
	getting through the mud.  I expected that the driver would have ended
	the section on the preceding set of canes, but whilst waiting for my
	start the marshal relayed the message "Vitara's Don't Float !"
	The driver had gone for it anyway, at least by doing this he gained
	one less penalty point as their was a set of canes on the entrance to
	the mud hole, as well as the final pair at the other end.

	At long last, I started this one.  The course here went along a side
	slope, which gives a very 'uncomfortable' feeling as you lean over,
	even though it was nowhere near the limits of the vehicle.  It went
	through a few axle twisters and a couple of drops/climbs before passing
	through a small, rutted mud-hole which had to be negotiated in the
	middle of a 90-degree turn.  Then it was a case of getting through a
	couple of fairly tight turns between trees before the mud hole.
	I got through all of these bends without mishap, although I had expected
	to get into trouble along the way.  Come out of the trees, swing it left
	and power on into the mud.  Got a horrible feeling as the vehicle sunk
	into the slush, still travelling forward, still keeping on the power.
	Then the tyres started to work, getting some grip and the bottom of
	all the 'goo' and forward momentum picked up.  The Jeep then seemed
	to sail on and out the other side, up the slippery slope and through
	the final pair of canes.  A round of applause from the crowd for
	actually getting through, and another zero penalty.

Section 9

	This looked to be fairly difficult in the Jeep, as it involved a
	sequence of tight, 180-degree turns, interspersed with 'ditches'.
	Taking it easy and getting the steering well over got me through
	the first few bends/dips well enough.  Then, going through one
	ditch/gully, the front bumper ground out and put me off-line by
	a small amount.  This meant that the next sharp bend was very
	tight, but with full lock I got round, with the front bumper only
	just missing the off-side cane.  Then it went through a couple of
	fairly sticky muddy sections, which could not be attempted in a
	straight line.  Nearly got these wrong as the tyres loaded up with
	mud and did not grip.  A burst of wheelspin cleared the tyres and
	the grip returned.  A few more dips to cross and a tight 90 right
	through the final set of canes - another zero !  Things were looking up.

Section 10

	This, the final section, started with a few turns round some trees,
	with a drop into a hole, where the vehicle then had to turn sharp left
	to some out of the hole through the canes.  By not getting the approach
	to the hole wide enough, once I drove into it, there was not enough
	room to turn the Jeep without meeting the other side of the hole.
	I tried to drive it round, with the bumper against the 'dirt wall'
	in front, but it just didn't work.  That resulted in another 8.

	As I did not attempt Section 3, I was awarded a maximum 10 points
	for that one (it was not being run when I finished Section 10), but
	I know I could not have got better than an 8 there anyway, so it
	made little difference.


As you can gather, I enjoyed this immensely, as did my 'other half', who was a
passenger/navigator throughout.  I look forward to the next event.  For the
overall results of this one, I will have to wait until the monthly magazine
is sent out, but I know I didn't win !  I must also point out that we found
the people there were very friendly and helpful throughout.  A good day out.

J.R.
1337.29Well doneVOGON::MITCHELLEBeware of the green meanieMon May 20 1991 16:4414
    
    Glad to hear you enjoyed it, and havn't done too much damage! I've been
    co-driver/passenger for my brother - and had a fantastic time, I
    ended up covered in mud! 
    
    I'm hoping to go down to Plymouth (?) for the LandRover 'Nationals'
    next weekend, where David will be competing, hopefully - his wheel,
    (not just the wheel, but the swivel housing, and suspension)  
    'fell off' and took the wing with it during his last competition
    safari, so he had quite a lot to repair! I don't fancy argueing with
    all the bank holiday traffic, so if the weather is not good enough to
    go by Motorbike, I think we'll stay at home!
    
    Elaine
1337.30Dirty Weekend?TRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Mon May 20 1991 18:088
    John,
    
    Congrats!  Now that you have got it *seriously* dirty can we expect to
    see you at some more RTVs?
    
    You never know, we may even get the 90 dirty again 8-).
    
    Alan
1337.31The difference between "Ooooh" and "Aaaaah" ! ;-)CRATE::RUTTERRut The NutMon May 20 1991 19:1431
�    Congrats!  Now that you have got it *seriously* dirty can we expect to
�    see you at some more RTVs?
    
    You certainly will !
    
    Unless something else crops up, I hope to attend at Weaver's Down
    on 2nd June, in the RTV class again.
    
    Since my main problem (besides lack of experience) was not enough
    steering lock, I will investigate the possibilities of getting some
    slightly narrower tyres, but still of a similar height.
    
    The height translates into additional ground clearance, which is
    a definite bonus.  The extra width (compared to the tyres fitted
    on most of the Land Rover's) helps to avoid getting stuck in some
    of the ruts, as the tyre doesn't always drop into the 'groove'.
    
    Trouble being, it is the width of the tyres that is restricting
    the steering lock.  If I get narrower tyres, I can adjust the
    lock stops and get a tighter turning circle (though probably not
    enough to make a great deal of difference).
    
    Changing to wheels with a wider offset would help, but that could lead
    to wheel bearing problems - which is not good news on Jeep axles.
    
    The other alternative is to increase the wheelbase to 100", then I can
    have a 'shunt' on the sections.  ;-)  A marshal on one of the sections said
    that if I wanted, I could have asked for a shunt anyway.  When I pointed
    out that my wheelbase was only 94", his comment was "What's in 6 inches ?"
    
    J.R.
1337.33If onlyCRATE::RUTTERRut The NutTue May 21 1991 12:2024
�to reduce turning circle you reduce the wheel base.
    
    Yeah, I know that.  At least if I get to 100", with even worse steering
    lock, I will be able to get the 'shunt' to enable me to make the bends.
    
�In any case lengthening degrades the break over angle.
    
    That's what the transmission guard is for !
    
    Or a suspension lift
    
    Or taller tyres			;-)
    
    It's all 'swings and roundabouts', or should that be 'ups and downs' ?
    
    
    Seriously though, I wouldn't consider lengthening the vehicle.
    
    But, if I could get a CJ5 instead - that's shorter but otherwise
    has similar components throughout.  And it can be had with a V8.
    
    Now that would be really good, anyone got one ?
    
    J.R.
1337.34it's always down to the tyresTRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Tue May 21 1991 13:4521
    WRT tyres, they fall into two categories.
    
    Most 'off road' tyre are the floatation type, that is they are designed
    to 'float' on mud and the tread paddles its way through.
    
    The other type bit through the clag and grips on what ever is solid
    beneath.  The Michelin XCL is the best example of this and is used
    extensively by the Bristish Army.  They are tall and skinny (and
    radial) and *very* expensive, circa �115 a corner for 205R15 on the
    L-R!
    
    They are extremely effective.  There is a 90 V8 hard top that is
    regularly seen at AWDC trial (forget the driver's name) with XCLs and
    he does very well when the going is 'soft'.
    
    The downside is that the more 'off road' the tyres are the less'on
    road' they are.  If you have a spare set of rims (and a friendly bank
    manager)you could have a trials set and an everyday set.  My last L-R
    was on Goodyear Xtra grips (7.50x16 crossplys) which are still used by
    the Army for series 3 L-Rs.  Good off road performance but hopeless on
    wet tarmac.  They are now getting rare and expensive.
1337.35Some more events to try/attendTRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Tue May 21 1991 14:0272
    From the latest AWDC newsletter, these are the fixtures as notified.
        
    May 26	Safari		Thorns Cross, Ashburton, Devon
    May 27	Trial	All	Thorns Cross, Ashburton, Devon
    
    Jun  2	Trial	RTV,Mod	Weavers Down, Bordon, Hampshire
    			Beginners
    			Heavy vehicle trial
    Jun  2      Trial	All	Clearwell Farm, Coleford, Wales
    Jun  9	Trial	All,Beg	West Harptree, Bath
    Jun 15/6	Trial,Safari	Herefod 4x4 show (see below)
    Jun 23	Trial	All	Nethercott Farm, Bampton, Devon
    		Trial		Stanhope, Co Durham
    Jun 30	Trial	RTV	Chartrin House, East Grinstead

    Jul  6	Trial	All	Cwm Coch, Carmarthen, Wales 
    Jul  7	Mini Saf	Cwm Coch, Carmarthen, Wales 
    Jul  7 	Trial	Mod	Yetnor Farm, Maidstone, Kent
    Jul 14	Safari		west Harptree, Bath
    Jul 21	Trial		West 
    Jul 28	Trial		Devon		
    		Trial		Pixhill Farm, West Midlands

    Then things get a little vague....

    Aug  4	Safari		Minehead
    Aug 11	Trial		Wales
    		Trial		west Harptree, Bath
    		Trial 		Devon
    		Mini Saf	Great Ayton, Cleveland
    Aug 14	Open Day	Long Valley, Aldershot
    Aug 24-26	Trial,Safari	Somewhere but NOT Sidbury Hill.

    Sep  1	Trial		North East
    		Trial 		Midlands
    Sep  8	Trial		Devon
    Sep 15	Safar		Peters Pit, Maidstone.
    Sep 22	Trial		Wales
    		Trial		North East
    Sep 28/9	Trial 		Bovington - joint meeting with Military
    				Vehicle Preservation Trust

    Oct  6	Trial		Devon
    Oct 12/3	Safari		Long Valley, Aldershot
    Oct 20	Trial		Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial		North East
    
    Don't forget the AWDC hotline for details of this weekend's events
    
    		0252 620990


    
    Then there is the Hereford 4x4 off road show, 15th & 16th June at
    Hampton Park, Hope  under Dinmore on the Leominster to Hereford road.

    	*  AWDC Comp safari
    	*  AWDC trial
    	*  Trade Stands
    	*  Static displays
    	*  Arena displays
    	*  Refreshments
    	*  Satuday night entertainment

    Entrance fee �2 each, on site camping �5 for the weekend.

    Call Steve Monkley for more details 0531 84302, 0586 84372.

    All proceeds to the Parkinsons Disease Society.

    
1337.37The Jeep is a soft-top, with removable doors...CRATE::RUTTERRut The NutWed May 22 1991 19:0712
�    Why not a shortened Range Rover instead of the Jeep?
    
    I like to be 'different'.    ;-)
    
    Although I have considered this as an option.  At least that way I
    would have easy access to spares and plenty of help/advice.
    
    Running a shortened R.R. on the road would still qualify as
    'being different' - it's just that there are quite a few variations
    on this theme at most AWDC events.
    
    J.R.
1337.38Motorsport can be dangerous (to your vehicles health)CHEST::RUTTERRut The NutMon Jun 03 1991 19:13228
This weekend, I entered my second RTV trial, at Weavers Down, near Liphook.
Again, not too far from home (30 mins) in case of problems.  The actual site
is very sandy and includes a lot of hills, although there is not much water
present, especially after recent dry weather.  (It can get VERY muddy here in
the winter, but that wasn't to be the problem this weekend)

A report of the day's proceedings, from my point of view, follows.

Section 1

	Watching this section with the Jeep in the queue, it was apparent
	that today was not going to be easy.  The start involved driving
	about 20 feet up a slight incline, in a gully.  Then the course
	required a sharp right turn into a steep hill.  The bottom of the
	hill had a fair 'step' to climb up before getting onto the main
	part of the slope - which looked like a 1-in-1 gradient (although
	I am sure it was less than that).

	At the top of this (BIG hill) was an 180-degree turn, before coming
	back down the hill again on a different, still steep, slope.  At the
	bottom, it was required to do yet another 180 turn, this time over a
	couple of ruts, before going up the hill for a final time, on an even
	more tricky slope.

	All of this was extremely soft, sandy going which caused problems
	for most of the vehicles, which are generally fitted with narrow
	design tyres intended for digging through mud.

	When my turn eventually came around, I started up the initial slope
	quite gently and turned towards the hill.  On this turn, the front
	washed out a bit more than expected in the loose sand, so putting me
	on a less-than-ideal position for going up the hill.  Power on, the
	front wheels went up the step, then the back wheels reached it, but
	they didn't manage to get enough grip.  Also, the centre of the Jeep
	managed to ground out at about the same time, which resulted in no
	more forward movement.  All I got was a lot of wheelspin from both
	ends and a bit of a slip to the side of the track.  The only option
	then was to reverse back off the slope (I was only just on it anyway)
	and get my timecard marked up with 9 penalty points.  A poor start.

Section 2

	After eventually finding where this section was being held (a common
	problem on the day, due to the large area over which sections were
	laid out) I joined the queue and walked round/spectated.

	First sight was to see a long-wheelbase Mercedes G-Wagen completely
	high-centred when trying to go over a hump between two ditches.
	Looking at the rest of the course, which included a lot of steep
	drops followed immediately by steep climbs, it was surprising that
	the vehicle had got even this far.  The G-Wagen was eventually towed,
	winched and driven off of the hump and the section continued.  

	Most people were getting stuck on the first bend, which was an
	axle-twister, a 90-degree bend and a short, sharp rise all in one !

	Sure enough, when it came to my turn, I too got stuck on this bend,
	with a front and a rear wheel each spinning in mid-air (since the
	Jeep is only really a 'two-wheel-drive' vehicle unless fitted with
	cross-axle diff locks at each end - the great lie about 4-w-d !).

	This resulted in another large penalty, no improvement yet.

Section 3

	This section was laid out right next to the preceding one, though
	since it had not yet been started, I drove all around the site
	looking for it.  I didn't want to start the section until I had
	seen other vehicles attempt it, so it didn't matter that I ended
	up further back in the queue.

	It seems that this section was set up by the same sadistic person
	who had done section 2.  It consisted of yet more steep up/down
	slopes.  Although these were only a few feet in height, their
	layout meant that most vehicles would be testing their approach,
	departure and 'ramp breakover' angles to the full.

	The start was next to a tree, with a short drop into a hole,
	immediately followed by a left turn into a climb up a sandy bank,
	where a pair of canes were positioned next to another tree.
	On the face of the slope were a few tree roots.  Watching others
	attempt this was providing a great deal of entertainment for a lot
	of people (and some trepidation for other, later competitors).

	Almost all of the vehicles had the same problem, in that as soon as
	the front wheels started up the slope, which was approached whilst
	still turning out of the 'hole', they simply slid straight across to
	the right.  This was caused by a lack of grip on the sand to begin
	with, followed by even more severe grip loss when meeting the roots
	of the tree.  Since the second pair of canes were atop this slope,
	most people did not even get a front wheel past this point, so ended
	up with a 10-point penalty.

	Once the vehicle had failed to get up the slope, it usually ended up
	in such a position that it could not easily get back out of the hole.
	This was due to the sideways movement experienced when trying to get
	up the offending slope.  Of course, the rest of this hole was also
	surrounded by trees, so there were only two possible exits.  The
	first was the entry point, which the vehicle no longer had a direct
	route to it.  The second was up and over the problem slope.  It turns
	out that this slope was still a problem when approached head-on, as
	there was almost no grip available, and no room for a run up to it.
	
	Watching people trying to extricate themselves from this hole was
	good fun, but at their expense.  One Land Rover driver managed to
	roll back into one of the trees and smash his rear light cluster in
	the process.  Another was towed back up the entry slope, but was
	dragged along the tree at the time.  This managed to cause some
	damage to the truck cab of his, admittedly old, Landy.

	A few vehicles ahead of me in this queue was another G-Wagen, this
	time a short wheelbase model, in almost pristine condition.  When it
	came to his turn, he dropped slowly into the hole before turning into
	the exit slope and going up and over it.  I was watching from a short
	distance (waiting in my Jeep), but it turns out that the front end of
	his vehicle managed to slip far enough to touch the cane on this brow,
	so he was awarded a penalty at that point.  He continued anyway, but
	did not make too much effort in avoiding other canes on the way.
	When he got off the section, he had a look at the roof of his Merc.
	to find a nice long gouge in the panelwork !  This was caused by the
	stump of a branch on the tree at the start line, which he had slid
	along when starting the section.  Certainly was a shame, but great to
	see that some of the owners of these vehicles are prepared to take a
	but of a risk and use them in these sort of events.

	It got to the stage that there was one vehicle ahead of me, which was
	a Land Rover of some sort.  Up until then, the only vehicle that I
	had seen get over the initial hump (and the second one which followed
	immediately after) was another Jeep, this one fitted with a 5.0 litre
	V8 of some sort.  The Land Rover went into the hole, and came out of
	it in the correct direction.  I cannot remember now whether he got
	through in one go, or if he was simply continuing after a failure.
	Whatever, he continued along the course, to where it involved driving
	along the side of a bank.  I could just see his vehicle from where I
	was waiting at the start line, just enough to watch it topple over
	onto it's side !  As far as I could tell, there were no injuries
	in this (low speed) incident.  The vehicle was righted and moved
	off of the section soon enough with the help of a couple of tow ropes
	and other vehicles helping, then it was my turn.

	I certainly did not feel too confident at this point, but dropped in
	to the hole, turned out powered into the slope.  To my amazement, the
	front went up and over, without hitting either of the canes at the top. 
	The back followed quite easily, as the front went down into the 'ditch'
	on the other side, only to be met with another upwards slope, just
	after the back had started descending the first hump.  Again, plenty
	of power was used to try and get up this next slope, but it just didn't
	work.  I ended up with lots of wheelspin and couldn't make it up the
	slope.  I then had to do a six- or eight-point turn in the midst of a
	'valley' which was not as wide as the Jeep was long !  Doing this led
	to a few odd-feeling moments, as I had the vehicle pointing both up
	and down the opposing slopes at some fairly steep angles.  When I
	had completed about half of this turn, it had the same sort of effect
	as a severe axle-twister, with the Jeep rocking across a diagonal line
	from one front wheel to the opposite rear wheel.  Very strange !

	Anyway, I came out of this section with no damage and slightly lower
	penalty points than most others.  Some improvement, but not much.

	Of interest to a lot of the crowd was the 'Heavy Vehicle' Trial
	going on at the same time near to this section.  This involved the
	likes of Scammel trucks climbing steep slopes.  These seemed to have
	much the same sort of problems as the 'normal' vehicles in the trials,
	except that everything was scaled up to suit.

Section 4

	After a break for lunch, I proceeded to where this section was to be
	held.  Near to this section (which the Marshal had yet to find), was
	a large body of water, probably best described as a pond.  There were
	a few people 'having fun' in and around the water.  Most memorable and
	entertaining of these was a Lada Niva that had just previously driven
	through near to the centre of the pond.  After this water crossing,
	the driver had to let the water out of his vehicle.  It turns out that
	the water INSIDE the vehicle had gone over the seat cushions !
	In an attempt to get the remaining water out, it was parked on a steep
	side slope with the door open, allowing water to come out over the
	door sills.  The engine was still running ok, although having an air
	intake 'snorkel' fitted to the A-pillar must have helped here.

	Another one to watch was an old Land Rover which went into the water
	and got stuck with the water over the tops of its tyres.  This was
	soon towed out by another Land Rover with no problems.

	Having waited a while with no sign of any Marshals, a few of us
	drove back to the preceding section to get someone to attend.
	On the way back to this section, I started to experience some
	problems with my steering.  Basically, it didn't want to turn !

	Instead of joining the queue for this section, I drove around a bit
	to work out what seemed to be the problem.  Doing this, it just got
	worse, until I could hardly turn right, nor could I straighten up
	the steering once I had got it to turn.  I thought the problem was
	at the top of the steering column at first, but looking under the
	front of the vehicle showed that the steering box was knackered !
	The back of the shaft which comes out of the steering box was able
	to move to and fro over an inch.  It is this part that is directly
	connected to the steering column.  I could not find any way of
	avoiding this unwanted movement, so I had to retire from the event.
	I handed in my time card anyway, to ensure that I do appear on the
	results sheet as having competed (even though unsuccessfully).

	I watched a few vehicles on this next section, which was based on
	a large mound (a bit over 20 foot high, perhaps).  The start went
	straight into a climb up the bank, whereupon the route went along
	the top, down, around and back up the bank again.  All of this was
	on loose sand, which was causing lots of problems with lack of grip
	for many of the competing vehicles.

	Just before I went to leave, I heard a sickening crunch and looked
	back at the start line to see a Land Rover that had failed to get
	up the initial slope.  When it came back down the slope, it met up
	with the front of a Range Rover which was waiting to start the
	section next !  The RR sustained a bent and broken front grille,
	but luckily did not get any damage to its lights.  I didn't get to
	see what happened to the LR, but it seems that it got some broken
	rear lamps out of this collision.

	Getting home in the Heep was no easy drive, but as the steering
	did still work (albeit with lots of effort required to turn) I
	though it better than arranging for recovery service to come and
	pick me up.  Suffice to say, I drove very slowly.  Also, there were
	only a few turns of any note on the route home again, most of it
	was all straight-ahead and there was very little traffic around
	at the time.  Now to get a replacement steering box and fit that.
	Then I'll be ready to try it all over again...

J.R.
1337.39better luck next time!VOGON::MITCHELLEBeware of the green meanieTue Jun 04 1991 11:078
    
    Sorry to hear of the damage to your Jeep - hope it doesn't take too
    long to fix. My brother phoned me this weekend - to give his report on
    the Land Rover National Trials held near PLymouth over the bank holiday
    weekend. He was lucky as far as damage was concerend - he only had to
    change one set of rear leaf springs. He did very well in the comp.
    safari - he is the National Champion in his class!  I've just got to
    make sure I get a copy of LRO which covers the Nationals!
1337.40Even Scammells break!TRUCKS::SMARTWhen you're in a hole, stop digging!Tue Jun 04 1991 14:0120
    Unfortunately due to the doggy's ill health over the weekend we did not
    get to the Weavers Down Trial.  Very sad as it was at Weavers that I
    first made my acquaintance with the AWDC more years ago than I care to
    remember!
    
    Some friends did go and rang me Sunday night to tell me of an incident
    in the heavy trial.  Chris Acock entered his Scammell Explorer 6x6. 
    This is an unusual vehicle as the original Meadows 10� litre petrol
    engine has been replaced with a Rolls Royce diesel.  Apart from the
    massive increase in torque he reports that the road fuel consumption
    has been halved - from 2 mpg to 4mpg!!!
    
    Part of one section required the drives to traverse a down slope.  This
    is always a tricky manoeuvre and normally one you would avoid but,
    unusual for Chris, he got it wrong and the Scammell fell over!  It was
    recovered with some damage to the cab but Chris and his passenger were
    OK.
    
    Let's hope it's back in action for Bovvy at the end of September.
                                     
1337.41It's working again (but for how long ?)CHEST::RUTTERRut The NutWed Jun 05 1991 12:2354
�    Sorry to hear of the damage to your Jeep - hope it doesn't take too
�    long to fix. 
    
    Well, having chatted to the owner of the other Jeep around on the day,
    it turns out that he has a spare (old) steering box at home.  I picked
    this up from his home Monday night, free of charge.  It had a fair
    bit of free play (that's why he took it off) but was not broken.
    
    As I ended up taking Tuesday off work, I spent the afternoon and the
    evening fixing the Heep.  I had to buy a socket to fit the HUGE nut
    on the end of the steering shaft, plus an adapter as this was 3/4"
    drive (total �15).  Trying to remove the Pitman arm, I bent my gear
    puller (two-leg design) so I had to go and buy another, this time with
    three legs (�20).
    
    When I got my steering box apart, I was horrified !  The wormshaft,
    which is basically an extension of the steering column was supposed
    to have a set of ball-bearings at each end of it, within the box.
    The top bearing on mine had disintegrated.  This had obviously happened
    over a period of time - I thought all Jeeps had free play in the steering !
    The bearings, which are (were) about 4mm in diameter, had ended up
    inside the box, getting in the way of the actual gears.  When I got the
    shafts out of the gear casing, I counted out 12 whole bearings, some of
    which had 'flat spots' on them.  I also found a number of 'half bearings'
    where they had been physical smashed into two (or more) pieces.  The
    actual bearing cage was supposed to hold 10 ball bearings...
    
    Rather than simply bolt in the other old steering box, I though it wise
    to dismantle this and set it up again, especially since it had been left
    out in the weather for some time.  It turns out that there were two
    broken bolts in the casing from when it had been removed from t'other
    Jeep.  Not to worry, I then planned to swap the internals into my
    casing. As expected, there were lots of problems in simply dismantling
    both units down to their component parts, but I eventually managed it.
    I then did a mix-and-match process to use the least-worn parts from
    the two sets of bits and ended up with one usable steering box.
    I eventually got this mounted in its rightful place on the Heep,
    but not without more problems.  Now, I have a road-going (or off-road)
    vehicle again, but this is only a temporary solution.  Re-using old
    bearings, with imperfect ball-races and with old gears which were
    not matched (different wear patterns likely) means that it cannot last.
    I will have to purchase a new steering box (> �200) and replace that,
    but I have got a reasonable 'fix' for about �35 in the mean time.
    
    Anyhow, (almost) back to the topic.
    
�    safari - he is the National Champion in his class! 
    
    Good stuff.  Hope he continues to do well, with minimal damage.
    
    My next event probably won't be until August (after my hols),
    but any other off-roading exploits may well get reported in here.
    
    J.R.
1337.42AWDC Bank Holiday event, near AldershotKETJE::SHASTA::RUTTERIn:Bull, Out:Sh??Tue Aug 06 1991 11:1630
    I don't have the latest event calendar with me, so I cannot enter it
    (how 'bout you Alan ?), but luckily for me the trial on Aug. 18th has
    been cancelled/postponed.  I wasn't sure I could get the Heep fixed
    in time (broken rear axle), but I now have an extra couple of weeks.
    
    The next event I hope to attend will be held in (near) Aldershot over
    the Bank Holiday weekend.  At least if I break something else, I do
    not have to go far to get back home again.
    
    This should be a busy weekend, with the following events :-
    
    	Saturday - Beginner's Trial and a Gymkhana (?)
    
    	Sunday - Safari (high speed event)
    
    	Monday - Three different classes of trials (Beginners, RTV, Modified)
    
    My plan (if the Jeep is usable) will be to attend on Saturday, doing
    either the Beginner's Trial (supposed to be quite easy and non-damaging)
    or the Gymkhana - if I can found out what that involves !
    
    On the Sunday, I may attend as a spectator or a marshal.
    
    On the Monday, I hope to enter the RTV trial (this is the class I have
    entered in before, intended to be non-damaging - but the Jeep and the
    terrain may disagree on that matter).
    
    Then I can bore you all by regaling more tales of woe from the weekend...
    
    J.R.
1337.43Latest AWDC Events CalenderTRUCKS::SMARTTaste and try before you buyWed Aug 07 1991 14:0353
    The news is finally out as to what is happening this Summer Bank
    Holiday.  There will be a three day event at long Valley with a
    Beginners trial on the Saturday and Gymkhana (no details to hand). 
    there will also be a treasure hunt where members can drive their 4x4
    around a marked route for �5.  On Sunday there is a Safari and Monday
    sees "all kinds of trials".

    There are camping facilities (last year they were quite good) but
    details are not yet published.  More about camping fron John Harvey on
    081 898 5088.

    The open day scheduled for 18th August is cancelled but there is a
    trial at Pickwell Park on that day.

    From the latest AWDC newsletter, these are the fixtures as notified.
        
    Aug 11	Trial		Llwyn-on Farm, Abergavenny
    		Trial 		Riphay Barton, Devon
    		Mini Saf	Great Ayton, Cleveland
    Aug 18	Trial		Piccadilly Farm, Cheltenham
    Aug 24	Trial		Long Valley, Aldershot.
    Aug 25	Safari		Long Valley, Aldershot
    Aug 26	Trial		Long valley, Aldershot

    Sep  1	Safari		West Calder, Edinburgh
    		Trial 		Iron Bridge, Telford
    Sep  8	Trial		Tavistock Woodlands, Devon
    		Trial		Chartin House, East Grinstead
    Sep 15	Safar		Peters Pit, Maidstone.
    Sep 22	Trial		Lydney Park Estate, Chepstow
    		Trial		Gotwick Wood, East Grinstead
    		Trial		North East
    Sep 28/9	Trial 		Bovington - joint meeting with Military
    				Vehicle Preservation Trust

    Oct  6	Trial		Devon
    Oct 12/3	Safari		Long Valley, Aldershot
    Oct 20	Trial		Broxhead Common, Bordon, Hampshire
    		Trial		North East
    Oct 27	Trial 		Midlands

    Nov 3	Trial		Peters Pit, Maidstone
    Nov 10	TBA
    Nov 17	Trial		Devon
    Nov 24	TBA
    
    Don't forget the AWDC hotline for details of this weekend's events
    
    		0252 620990


    
    
1337.44a member of the All Wet and Dirty Club !CURRNT::PACE::RUTTERRut The NutFri Jan 03 1992 13:39155
    Having got the Heep running, and able to be stopped again, I actually
    set off for Bordon, where the Christmas 'Fun Trial' was to be held.
    
    No problems on the way there, found the site ok and drove into the
    car park area.  Next job is to sign on, pay up and get an entry card
    for the day.  Amazing, there wasn't much of a queue at control, so
    the formalities were dealt with quickly enough.
    
    Two friends that I had planned to meet were waiting for me just by
    control, so I went and got the Heep and met them inside the entrance.
    These two both had Series II Land Rovers, one petrol, the other diesel.
    
    The format for the day was that there were a number of 'fun' sections
    laid out, which could be attempted if you wished.  Other than that, the
    whole of the site was available for off-roading fun and games.
    
    Since there were three vehicles, with another expected later, we
    decided not to do any of the trial sections, since the involve a fair
    amount of time waiting in turn.  Instead, we went in for some mucking
    about, 'follow the leader' style.  First job was to air down the tyres
    and cover the front grille with a rubber mat (to keep out excess water).
    
    The site is a load of army land, over a very large area.  It includes
    a fair amount of steep hills (generally 1-in-1 gradient), is sandy in
    most places, with areas of woods and some very wet (and muddy) spots.
    
    The last time I was here was when my steering box gave out, part way
    through a days trialing.  I was hoping for better this time.  I had
    also warned my mates that I felt like trying some difficult stuff, so
    we could expect to get stuck some time during the day...
    
    Having said that, I was still allowed to lead the way.
    
    After a few humps, bumps, climbs, drops and turns I thought it time
    to tackle some water.  Just for me, there then appeared this very long
    and rather wide 'puddle'.  About 15 foot wide, 30 foot long, and I
    didn't know how deep.  There was a track leading into this puddle,
    but it obviously hadn't been used so far that day.
    
    So, the mind says "Go For It", so steering follows and off we all go
    down to meet this H2O, me still in the lead.  No-one behind did anything
    to warn me off, so slowly I proceeded into the muck.  I was then told
    to 'go round the edge, because that's easier', so I did as I was told
    and headed around the left hand side.
    
    Bad Move !   When about 10 foot into it (distance, not depth), the
    wheels on the left decided to sink and spin.  This wasn't mud, this
    was just muddy water !  No grip available, forward momentum ceased,
    tried reverse, nope definitely no grip here.  Tried turning the wheel
    from side to side, hoping to grip the side of the hole that the
    wheels were buried on, still no joy.  Pressed the brakes gently whilst
    in drive (this can get both wheels on each axle to turn), no effect.
    
    In fact, the Heep had sunk so much that the floorpan was just below water
    level, with the belly of the vehicle sitting on the mud below, and no
    real weight on the wheels.
    
    Watching the dirty water come up through the drain holes in the floor
    of the Heep, I decided that I was most definitely stuck !
    
    One of the two Landy's with me had also entered the wet area, but was
    still able to drive back out of it, so the plan then was for him to tow
    me out.  First problem with this plan was getting the tow rope onto the
    rear tow ball of the Heep, and then on to his Land Rover.
    
    I climbed out of the door onto the bonnet and leaned down to detach the
    rope from the front tow ball, then climbed over the roof to the back.
    No way I could manage things from there, so I jumped off to the side,
    landing in about one foot of mud.  Of course, my boots aren't that high...
    
    Anyway, we got the rope connected, I got back in and put it into reverse,
    the Land Rover then started to back up, the rope got tight and then,
    nothing !  The Landy simply dug its front wheels into the mud and
    refused to go back with the Heep in tow.  Not really surprising, but
    we had to try it anyway.  Next idea, join up the other Land Rover
    with the next tow rope and all try at once.  At least the rearmost
    vehicle was on dry, solid footing.
    
    So, all connected up, all in reverse gear, pulling away.
    
    My Heep continued swirling slushy mud around its wheels.
    The first Landy, carried on digging a nice hole,
    the second Landy just spun its wheels on tghe dry surface.
    
    Oh Dear !   That wasn't working either.
    
    Of course, all this larking about had generated a fair old crowd of
    amused on-lookers.  There was also a video camera in evidence.
    Luckily, we were all finding this fun ourselves.  After all, this
    is what it's all about, isn't it ?  Smiling happily for the cameras,
    we wondered what to try next.
    
    The new plan was to get the Land Rovers out of the way and try to
    unstick the Heep with one vehicle pulling, using a long rope to gain
    traction on the solid ground.  So, unhooked the rearmost vehicle, then
    tried to unhook the rope between the Heep and the front Landy.
    
    No chance !  The rope was still tight, and with the shape of the tow
    balls, it could not be lifted off from either vehicle.  To make things
    worse, the Landy would not move forward under power either.  We then
    managed to get some slack in the rope by pushing the Land Rover from
    behind with t'other Rover.  That got the rope off, but it then turned
    out that the Land Rover had also decided that it too was stuck in the mud.
    It could not get enough grip in the mud hole to pull itself out and up
    the slope, nor could the other Rover pull it out.
    
    So, we had two vehicle stuck, at various depths in the mud.  Great fun !
    
    It was at this time that the magic words were heard -
    
    	"Do you need a winch ?"
    
    Well, that is about the only way out of this sort of situation, so
    we readily accepted this offer.  The rearmost Landy quickly got out of
    the way to let this benevolent white Land Rover take its place in line.
    
    Now, this beast was really set up for getting things unstuck.
    It had electric winches mounted in the bumpers both front and rear.
    There were all sorts of shackles, strops, snatch blocks and chocks
    in the back of this vehicle.  These then went into action, the vehicle
    secured and hooked up to the stuck Rover.  Winch switched on and
    hey, presto !  rearward movement.  No problems there.
    
    Next it was my turn to be extricated.  Got the winch cable connected,
    in the Heep, reverse gear, engine running.  Winch power on, and then -
    not a great deal.  The winch didn't seem too happy at doing this job,
    so it was time for a bit more rigging to come out.  This time, the
    winch cable was connected to a nearby tree, with a single pulley block
    being attached to the rear of the Heep.  This time, all systems go !
    
    The Heep was sucked slowly out of the hole, then the wheels got some
    grip and I was able to drive out the rest of the way, not even getting
    caught in the hole made by the Land Rover (my tyres are noticeably
    wider than those on the other vehicle, so didn't fall into the ruts).
    
    After thanking of the helpful winch-owning driver, we were all on our
    way again.  Just as soon as the Heep had been extracted though, we
    saw someone in a Land Rover decide that he could get through under
    his own steam, in the other direction.  At least he did not try to
    drive around the edge, he went for the more direct route, even though
    that is likely to be deeper, it is expected to have a more firm footing.
    
    We couldn't leave without watching this attempt, could we ?
    Neither could the winch-equipped Land Rover, since it soon became
    clear that this route was not easily passable, requiring another
    pull on the winch cable to get this next vehicle out.
    
    About to leave, someone then pointed out that this particular water hole
    had already stopped a 6x6 Scammel, which is no mean feat !
    
    
    After all this fun, just to start the day off, we then continued on
    out merry way into the nearby hills for more silly antics off-road...
    
    J.R.		(next instalment to follow, when I have time)
1337.45PLAYER::BROWNLWot's a rathole?Fri Jan 03 1992 13:513
    John, have you tried therapy? :^)
    
    Laurie.
1337.46How about a therapeutic mud bath ?CURRNT::PACE::RUTTERRut The NutFri Jan 03 1992 14:038
>>    John, have you tried therapy? :^)
    
    Nah, but I've tried drink !
    
    As a slight aside, there is an informal 'sub-club' within the AWDC
    which is known as the 'All Wheel Drinking Club', but I'm not in that !
    
    J.R.   (and they don't go for drinking AND driving, it's one or t'other)
1337.47ROC trial at Sidbury HillTRUCKS::SMARTTaste and try before you buyMon Jan 06 1992 09:026
    News Flash!
    
    ROC are holding a trial at Sidbury Hill, near Tidworth (just off A338
    Salisbury to Marlborough road) on Sunday, 12 January.  Sidbury is on
    Army land and is chalk.  At this time of year it's like driving through
    porridge but in the summer it's like talcum powder.
1337.48WANTED: Landrover Overdrive.FILTON::PADDICKAnd I thought the answer was 42. Wed Feb 19 1992 20:279
    Hello (I've posted this in several placesd)
    
    Does anyone know of a second hand overdrive unit suitable for a 2�litre
    petrol series IIA. (Couldn't possibly afford a new one)
    
    Regards,
    
    Meic.P.
    
1337.49MAJORS::QUICKFubbThu Feb 20 1992 12:114
    I can't say I see the point in posting it several times in the
    same conference meself, but there you go...
    
    JJ.
1337.50KERNEL::IMBIERSKITMon Aug 08 1994 16:114
    Are the details for the AWDC posted in .0 still current? (I presume the
    membership fee has gone up!)
    
    Tony I