Conference terri::cars_uk

    If you have to claim off your own insurance, you *may* lose your	
    No Claims Bonus.
    
    Be careful.
    
    - Roy

	The cost of the lockset, and fitting, is �150, if I claim , and loose,
	and as this is a different claim from the damage to the car, not
	only would I loose the no-claims, but also have to pay the �50 excess.

	Heads you win, tails I loose.

	I have made a few more calls. My insurers are Royal Insurance, their 
	insurers are Royal insurance.

	What bets on us both loosing no-claims, and both paying excess!!!!!

	Heather

	Who has never failed to wonder at the ingenuity of insurance companys to
	excape payment.

Heather

Although I've never had a garage lose my keys whilst my car was in their care 
(OK lose=stolen, but basically you had followed the garage's procedure for 
handing over car keys), I've had my car damaged whilst it was in for repair, and
that's pretty much the same thing. There was no question of my (Digital's)
insurance being involved, and the garage fixed everything and gave me a free 
hire car as well.

I would say that they are trying to by difficult, and if they persist, you 
could try contacting the SMMT, or whatever they are called these days. CAB might
also be able to help.

In my book, it's their problem, and they should pay in full + reimburse you for
any inconvenience caused. Whether they want to claim the cost off their 
insurance is really no concern of yours.

Dick

    The car was in their care and custody, they have a common law duty of
    care towards your property.
    
    Go back, be firm and tell them that they must replace your lock set as
    promised free of charge.  You don't care whether it comes from their
    insurance or not -  how they pay for it is their problem.  If they are
    still difficult tell them you will get the repair done and sue them for
    the cost, a sum over which you have no control !! and see what they say
    to that.
    
    If you still aren't winning, remove yourself from premises and come up
    and see/phone me in REO F2  and we see if we can help.  
    
    Was this a lease car - I assume not, is it a garage/repairer we know ??
    
    Doug

    As one of the mods of this conference may I thank Doug for replying to
    this topic.
    
    Doug is part of the U.K. insurance group.
    
    Rich
    

... I have the 12 bore you were asking for.

Simon (who now has a laser sight at his desk as well for double accuracy)

    
    I believe that it all depends on if the garage took reasonable steps to
    secure your car and keys while in there procession.
    
    I had a car stolen from a garage while it was it for repairs, and like
    yourself I thought the garage would be liable, but this was NOT the
    case, and my insurance company paid for the lose. The reason due to the
    garage having locked the car in a compound overnight.
    
    I would recommend that you talked to your insurance claims dept ,and
    not the broker as they know little.
    If your insurance is liable, I would try and get the garage to give you a 
    good-will claim.
    
    
    Good luck
    

	Thanks for all your replies,

	It's not a lease car, I take the money, and look after myself
	(is this an advert for lease cars?????).

	I got back to my broker, and have a phone number, and ref. number in
	Royal Insurance, and they have said thay will talk with the garage
	or their insurers about this situation.

	I went back to Ruskins, who have taken this info, and will get back to
	their insurers.

	From what I can gather, both their insurers are trying to duck the
	situation, and Ruskins have been told: 
	if the car was stolen, or damaged, then their car/traders insurance 
	would have covered it with no problem, but as it was the keys, stolen 
	from the office, they can't claim against the car/traders insurance. 
	So, they tried to claim from their business/liability/contents type 
	insurance, and were told that they wouldn't pay out, and I had to go
	through my insurers, who would then contact them.

	The garage are also a little puzzled. I am trying to be as helpful
	as my impatience will let me.

	As they have now actually got the lock-set, I'd have thought that
	it would be a good practise to fit it, and either get their insurance
	to pay, or write it off......too simple I suppose.


	I have told the garage that I will call them back tomorrow, and will
	expect them to have resolved their situation.


	Doug, if I can't get this sorted, I may come up for some advice,
	I'll let you know what happens.

	Heather

Shall I bring the 12 gauge in?

    
    Heather, couldn't they just get the key no. from ARG by giving
    them the chassis number.  I lost a set of keys from a friend's 10-year
    old Maestro, went along to Ruskins with the chassis no. who sent it off
    to ARG.  New keys were available after 48hrs.  Cost �1.50 per
    key.  This was only 4 weeks ago.
    
    
    Neville.

Because the car reg number was with the keys and is now known to the thief.

Simon

	Thanks simon, they also know my name.........it's lucky I'm 
	ex-directory, there's only 5   H Thomas's in Reading, they could have 
	found my house quite easily.

	It's not difficult now, all they have to do is give the number and 
	name to Swansea, and they'll tell them my address.

	I do need that new lock-set.

	(apart from the fact they messed up my central locking when the 
	garage got into my car!)

	Update later.

	Heather

    Heather,
    
    Are you yet able to close this loop with a happy ending ?
    
    Doug

	Yes, in the fact that I don't have to pay anything extra, no, in the 
	fact that I think the solution is messy, and not a "real" solution.


	As both the garage, and myself, are insured with Royal Insurance, David
	Ruskin phoned them up to sort out how they wanted to deal with the
	paperwork.


	Solution:  have the work done, and put the job through on the claim 
	number used for doing the work on my back bumper.

	So, I don't have to fill in another claim, it isn't treated as another
	claim, so won't affect my no-claims bonus and I don't have to pay 
	another �50 excess. It is being treated as part of the accident that 
	happened when an unknown reversed into my car in July.

	The car is in for the new lockset today, and I have a replacement car, 
	they will phone me up this afternoon when my car is ready to be picked 
	up.

	I hope things are OK, I'll check they haven't scratched my paintwork in 
	the process, and they've remembered the petrolcap lock too.

	So, a rather strange compromise.

	Thanks for the advice and offers of help, it should be all completed
	by this evening.

	Heather

    I suppose someone thinks they've come up with the magical solution but
    end of the day, customer, you , gets a claim on her record which you
    think cost, say �200 for a bumper, in fact cost, say �300 for their
    mistake.
    
    If only they had bitten the bullet of what is a customer satisfaction
    issue rather than an insurance issue in the first place.
    
    As you say Heather, you got a result but a messy one.
    
    D

	Well, I was too optimistic.

	Firstly, even after taking my phone number for the Nth time, they
	didn't call me when the car was ready.

	So, I phoned up, and they assured me the car was fine.

	When I went to pick it up, one of the keys didn't work, and neither 
	did the central-locking.

	I refused to sign for the work, and demanded to keep the car they had 
	given me (Nissan Micra, I must be mad, who would demand that!!!) until
	my car was fixed.

	After a heated argument, with me going through all the points in front
	of customers picking up their vehicles, they decided to shut me up, 
	and let me keep the Nissan.

	They say it will be ready this evening, don't hold your breath.

	Heather

>	They say it will be ready this evening, don't hold your breath.


	Well, the central locking was fixed.

	Now, the security coded radio doesn't work.

	I didn't have the code, as Penta never gave it to me. Ruskins said
	last night, that they needed the serial number of the radio, then they 
	could phone up, and get the code and let me know today.

	Now, the sticker on the car, which warns people the radio is security
	coded, is on the drivers window, its 3 inches above the lockset that
	they replaced, they must have seen it, it was right in front of their
	eyes, should I be charitable and assume they can't read!

	Also, the handbook says to deactivate the radio BEFORE disconnecting the
	battery - well, they're only the dealership, how should they know the
	security coded radio came as standard, even if they couldn't read.
	It's like they didn't know Montego 2.0GTI's had central locking as 
	standard.

	Why didn't they do that yesterday to save me the bother?

	Well, after taking 45 mins along the M4 this morning, with no radio, I
	got more and more anoyed about the "service" I have had from the 
	garage.

	So I phoned up. They then tell me they need the chasis number from my 
	log book, and it will take 2 days to fax off for the code.

	Then I lost my cool with them, and told them what I thought of their 
	"service", and why hadn't they told me they needed the chasis number
	last night!!!!!!!!!!!!

	Then it clicked - surely theu know the chasis number, they had a key
	cut for the old lock after they broke into it.......so I pointed this
	out.

	Well, we might have it they say...........oh yes, we do.

	I then persuaded them that faxes don't take two days, and they have 
	promised phone me with the code today.(well, they've promised to phone 
	me on every occaision before, maybe 12th time lucky!).

	I shall NEVER get a quote from them to do so much as check my tyre
	pressure in future.

	I am also writing to my insurers, to inform them of this saga, and what
 	I think of the service.

	Heather - still not holding her breath.

    Question : Is the garage in question a Rover dealership ?
    
    If so, phone up Rover customer service, and whinge unceasingly.
    
    If not, why stop with a twelve-bore, call in Arnie Shwarzenthingy.
    
    Colin

    In order to deactivate the code feature you need the code in the first
    place. You tell it to deactivate, and confirm with the relevant number
    (stops someone borrowing the car and deactivating it themselves). So
    since they don't have the number they probably never bother, and just
    assume the customer has the number to re-activate.
    
    When my Rover was delivered the invoice from the garage had the radio
    serial number typed on it with 4 extra digits on the end. These were
    the code. have you got the original invoice, and does it contain a
    number for the radio?.
    
    Didn't you get an orange card from penta together with the security
    stickers?. I must admit the first thing I asked when my car was
    delivered was "what's the radio code number?"
    
    Not that all the above lessens the fact that they handled you very
    badly, and failed to deliver a first time fix.
    
    Richard

    One thing I have heard about 'security coded' stereos is that the
    memory can be erased by placing the unit in a freezer.
    
    Not that I am suggesting that you (or the garage) do that, but I
    have wondered about the effect of a good, strong frost.
    If this fact is correct, I am sure that it would be general
    knowledge among the 'stereo nicking' fraternity.  If so,
    it does kind of reduce the effect of this feature.
    
    I suggest you wait until after your next 'exchange' with the
    dealer, when you will be feeling even more aggrieved - THEN
    call the Rover Customer Service number.
    I feel there is no point in being too polite following the
    sort of experience you have had.  It may be unfair on the
    person at the 'help desk', but you are more likely to get
    some response that way.
    If you call and sound apologetic for the incident, then I
    bet you will get very little help from this Dept...
    
    J.R. (enjoying the 'hire car' are we ?)

	The Montego is an ex-demo, so I didn't get the original invoice.

	I didn't get a card with the number on, I did get sticky labels to
	put on the windscreens, boldly announcing said security feature.
	(no I didn't check, which is most unlike me........never again)

	It's 3 steps to deactivate the code, and 9 to enter it, the
	handbook recommends deactivating, you then have 1 step to re-activate.

	If they gave me a call for the code, and I did have it, they could have
	de-activated it as specified in the book, and saved me any problem.
	If they gave me a call for the code, and I didn't have it, they could
	have faxed off for the number yesterday, re-activated it, and saved any
	problem.

	They didn't mention they had to disconect the battery, they didn't 
	mention I would need the code to reset the radio, I found out just 
	before I drove off, when I turned the radio on.

	I had one story last night, and a different story today.

	I didn't go through the whole story here, because the initial intention
	was to just sort out the insurance, however:

	The keys were stolen Sunday evening.

	When I called at 4.30 on Wednesday, saying I was coming over to pick up
	the car, they told me of the stolen keys, and that they had to break 
	into my car to move it, they then cut a spare key for it.
	Now, all this time, they never called, and never said the car would
	not be ready in time because of this delay, I eventually picked up the
	car on the Friday.

	They broke into my car and broke the central locking in the first place,
	they could have called me in work, and I could have given them another
	key. They could have called me and told me the car wouldn't be ready 
	by Wednesday..........I have since realised that they NEVER call me.
	In all this time, it is me doing the calling.

	Although the radio was probably the smallest problem I've had with 
	them, it just happened to be "the straw that broke the camels back".

	
	Heather.................STILL waiting for a return call.

.21 >> One thing I have heard about 'security coded' stereos is that the
.21 >> memory can be erased by placing the unit in a freezer.
    
Note 163.11 in UK_AUDIO conference (node MALLET:: for interested parties)
unfortunately dispels this rumour.

Steve.

>.21 >> One thing I have heard about 'security coded' stereos is that the
>.21 >> memory can be erased by placing the unit in a freezer.


	Thanks, that gave me a giggle, do you think the people in the Rover 
	Dealership could fit into the said freezer????? or is this wishful
	thinking!

	I phoned up customer services, they will not be able to give me the
	code number until after their "overnight computer run".
	I tried selling them consultancy to write an on-line update/enquiry
	but they didn't understand, they thought 24-hour turnaround was
	marvellous. I reminded them that they were customer service, and as a
	customer, I didn't find it marvellous.

	If I put my full complaint in writing they will take it up with the 
	garage.

	So, that's it. I hope to get the number tomorrow, which I will 
	then set myself (and record in my booklet).

	Heather

    I too had problems with a Phillips radio in my Rover, it died 3 weeks
    from new!. So being nearest to Ruskins (who DIN"T supply it) I called
    in there, they confirmed it was dead (What a surprise) and offered to
    send it away for repair, no they didn't have a replacement to put in.
    I'd have been weeks without it!.
    
    So I stropped and moaned, refused a repair, complained about waiting,
    and in the end they gave me the 'top-of-the-range' radio "just for a
    few day's till your's get's back". Me:"I want a new one, I'm not
    accepting a repair", them:"Oh I mean when the replacement comes in..."
    
    This was 12/10, I think they've forgotten (I hope they've forgotten!)
    P.S. the code has not been activated :-}
    
    Richard

    Looks like another garage/repairer for my infamous "blacklist"
    
    D

	Well, Ruskins faxed off for my number yesterday.

	Today they say they have not had a reply.

	I phoned up Rover, and they faxed the number back yesterday afternoon.

	So I have given the name and number of the lady who faxed the reply, to
	Ruskins, who say they will follow this up!

	Heather

	PS, they also faxed back a number for a Rover 200, that could be yours!!

	Going blue in the face holding her breath for so long.

Heather,

Can't Rover fax you...

or mail you with X.400

;^))


Greg

>Can't Rover fax you...
>
>or mail you with X.400
    
    Rover are currently considering the purchase of an X.400 facility.

	I received the number on Friday evening, and programmed the car radio
	accordingly.

	All systems go - and it's only taken a month!


	Heather

	Okay Simon, I need that shotgun, and I need it NOW!!!!!!!!!


	My insurance brokers have phoned up, Royal Insurance have contacted them
	saying a claim has been put through for a new lock set, and as only the
 	bumper and indicator were damaged, they have to process this as a 
	different claim from ME.

	Now, I never got anything in writing from Ruskins to say that the 
	Insurers had agreed to this "deal", mind you, I never signed anything
	with regard to the new lock-set.


	I have explained the whole story to my broker, he says he will sort
	it out for me.


	That'll teach me to think that everything was fine!!!!!!

	Heather

    I suggest, since you have the lockset fitted and the car back (at last)
    in satisfactory nick, that you ring the insurance company and your
    broker, confirming in writing, that you are emphatically not making any
    claim, that the lockset damage is the responsibility and liability of
    the garage, and they should discuss it with them and not trouble you
    again.
    
    You certainly do not want another claim on your record, for damage done
    unnecessarily by a known third party.
    
    Steve

    I'm still weatching this one, but the results service has been a little
    lacking recently.  Are you going to update us Heather, or keep us in
    "suspendies" until the final outcome or solution, where's that shotgun
    ??
    
    D

	I am waiting for the brokers to get back to me...........


	they say it will be this afternoon............


	Heather

	The brokers have got back to me this morning..........


	They say Royal Insurance have agreed to put the key-claim on the
	previous claim as I requested.


	ME ?????????? I ??????????????

	
	grerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


	However, this is the end of it.        (famous last words)


	Heather

>	However, this is the end of it.        (famous last words)



	You will not be unduly surprised that Ruskins called me this afternoon,
	They tell me I had two lots of my work done, one which was covered
	on the insurance, and the other, which I have not yet paid for.


	You're darn right I haven't paid for it. My insurance brokers are
	Swinton Insurance of Mutley Plain Plymouth, as Mr. Ruskin is only
	to well aware. My insurance company is Royal Insurance, as is your
	insurance company.

	If Mr. Ruskin would like to call me back, and arrange a meeting with 
	me at my connvienience, and on nutral territory, I will oblige. I
	will have my solicitor with me. Goodday.

	Well, Mr. Ruskin hasn't called me back.............yet?

	And I thought Penta were bad!


	Heather

	Well folkes, continuing this story which started a year ago.....


	I have had a cliam form in the post today.............to claim for the
	keys that were stolen, and the replacement of the locks.


	I thought it had been quiet for too long!!!!!!!!!!!!



	Is there a scream topic in here anywhere??????????????


	Heather