Conference terri::cars_uk

I've seen three or four of them around.....

or were they Vauxhall Cavaliers.

Acording to Top Gear, the Primera is a "good" car,
although it is a Nissan, whichever way you look at it.



Ian

Good points:

Comfy, nice ride, good engine

Bad points

Bland shape (ie looks like a Cavalier / Sierra clone, plasticky inside,
overpriced (for the market it's being aimed at)

It's an upmarket car by a company with a downmarket reputation, which could be
it's biggest selling problem...

Scott

    Saw one in a queue t'other day. Looks allright, difficult to
    distinguish from a cavalier, but also looked as good as a cavalier.
    
    Definitely a non-japanese looking car, unlike it's ugly predecessor.
    
    Richard

    Well received by Dutch & Belgian press including TV press.
    
    The Primera received the "Golden Steeringwheel" in Germany as
    best car in its class for 1990.
    Another Japanese car, which received the same award was the Lexus.
    And this for Germany.......
    
    It's price is very competetive as well as the Fiat Tempra overhere.
    
    
    Hans
    

It;s also been voted "Car of the Year" in Denmark.

Mind you, I dunno if it says more for the car, or more for the Danes...

Peter.

    Hans,
    
    Ronald de Weerd just bought one, maybe you could talk to him.
    
    T_
    

    Patrick,
    
    Funny thing, but the Primera is repackaged as a (Nissan) Infiniti G20
    over here.  Infiniti is Nissan's new luxury car division a la (Honda)
    Acura and (Toyota) Lexus.  The G20 has gotten GREAT press here since
    the car mags got to test drive.  Some points:
    
    - Very luxurious interior, world class suspension, great motor for 
      4 cylinder with tractable power band... at $17,500 list loaded with
      all options (including ABS) except for leather and sunroof.
    
    - Designer is a Japanese who lived in Germany during his youth on an
      engineering exchange student Willy Brandt grant.  He designed the G20
      to be Japan's 1st teutonic car, which explains the taut suspension
      and understated design with with the European shape.
    
    - The design combines small exterior dimensions containing a large
      cabin.  This was achieved by overlapping the greenhouse and the 
      wheelbase (look at the car's profile).  The multilink suspension
      and drivetrain were redesigned to accomodate a BIG interior.
    
    - The G20 looks to be a hit in the States, one of the best values on
      the market.  The gas crisis will help its sales as we American 
      yuppies move from gas hog cars with flashy exteriors to highly
      efficient cars (the G20 will do 25 MPG overall) of understated
      design.
    
    - The G20 is targeted to go directly after the BMW 318 and the M-B 190.
      It's interior is more luxurious than either, and larger, and it'll
      outperform both, even in the corners (supposedly).
    
    If I were in the market for a sedan right now this is the car I'd
    lust after.
    
    MrT 

    Thanks for the info. The Primera is getting good press over here too.
    And selling well !

RE: -.1

Patrick, 

How can it be selling well - we all know about France's (and Italy's)
xenophobic attitude towards Japanese cars!! :-) Have "voluntary import 
restrictions" been lifted for the Primera?! (Yes, I know that they're built in
Great Britain - however that hasn't meant much in the past).

	BTW, I see that the President of Peugeot was embarrassed a couple of
weeks ago. He is chairman of a lobby group - which has all of the major
manufacturers in Europe (12 companies, I think) as members. He moved a motion
proposing that Japanese imports be further restricted in Europe. The other
companies disagreed. When he wouldn't back-down, all other members resigned -
so Peugeot is now the only member of the cartel...  Anyone else got any more
detail on this story?

Cheers

Steve

    re 1
    
    I think Peugeot's logic was driven by a fear that America's auto 
    industry has pretty much been dealt a death blow by the Japanese,
    with the recent announcements by the Big 3 (Honda, Toyota, Nissan)
    of their intention to massively increase their on-shore capacity and
    planned entrance into the full-size pick-up truck market which indeed
    provides the lion's share of what profits the former Big 3 (GM, Ford,
    Chrysler) make.
    
    I can empathize with Peugeot on this: Most of the on-shore Japanese
    plants will be built in England because the Japanese use English as 
    their second language.
    
    It's sad.  The window is closing soon, after which newcomers will be
    unable to implement advanced production technologies if they aren't
    already familiar with them.  Perhaps Peugeot's leader was stalling for
    time during which labor and production reforms could be implemented 
    without predation by the Japanese.  
    
    As an American, you guys don't know what you're in for with them.
    
    MrT 

    I don't like Mr Calvet's (Peugeot SA) attitude although I can
    understand it from a pure manufacturer's point of view. From a consumer
    point of view competition is the rule for improving quality (see
    Germany). 
    
    I think Peugeot, Renault, Fiat survive only because they sell in a closed
    domestic market.
    
    I've driven my father-in-law's 405 a number of times. While the
    handling is good, the build quality is extremely poor.
    
    I've looked at the 605 since its introduction and the build quality has
    not improved. I'm not interested in the 605 but I thought I would look
    at a TOP CLASS european car just to see what it looks like. The 605
    does not compare in terms of quality with the AR 164 (same price) or
    with the BMW525 (BMW slightly more expensive).
    
    On the Primera : being built in the UK it is a EEC car, therefore not
    restricted.    

    Did you know that the AR 164 is based on the same show car design
    by Pinafarina (?) as the 605?  The similarity is especially apparent
    from the rear and side views.
    
    For my money the best French voiture to buy is Citroen, especially the 
    XM, which is a beauty and is slated for introduction into the U.S. in 
    about a year.  The troubles afflicting French manufacturing are the
    same as American: A knucklehead elite from gene pool universities who
    tested their way to the top instead of performing their way there run
    the industrial companies.  The problem is only made worse in France by
    state ownership (in some cases).  Hand the companies over to engineers
    and designers who survived the Darwinian selection process and keep the
    governments out and things would improve rapidly.
    
    No MBAs, no CPAs, no worthless geeks from Harvard or Polytechnique 
    Francaise to botch things up!
    
    MrT

    
�    < Note 1295.12 by CARP::SHAUGHNESSY "MrT: SPORTS' technical analyst" >

�    Did you know that the AR 164 is based on the same show car design
�    by Pinafarina (?) as the 605?  The similarity is especially apparent
�    from the rear and side views.

    I think this is incorrect. Pinafarina were given the jobs of styling
    the 405 and Alfa 164. They were supposed to design two different
    cars and came out with two front ends at least that were
    indistingishable. I think Alfa were said to be unhappy at the time.
    The 605 is just an 'enlarged' 405.
    
    On the subject of Citroen... CAR magazine have been very unhappy
    with their 24v XM which they have on long term test... which is
    a shame since the car is a bit different from the average euro-box.
    
    Back briefly to Nissan - Nissan (the car manufacturer) are tearing
    up their contract with Nissan UK (the car impoter/seller) and are
    saying they will build a complete new dealer chain in the UK.
    Nissan Uk are reportedly unhappy with the pricing structure on the
    new Primera.
    
    

    I'm grabbing at straws here but can anyone provide me with a pointer to
    any scanned pictures of a Primera (pref colour).  I've been asked to
    get one which I can convert and use in DECpresent or similar package
    for a bid to we're putting together for Nisan so any format will do and I 
    can convert it.
    
    If there aren't any is there anybody in the US can scan a picture in
    for me or indeed in the UK if any office is lucky enough to have a
    colour scanner.
    
    I need this within the next two weeks.
    
    I'll be grateful for any replies
    
    Paul Wright
    
    (I'm @RKG if anyone wants to send me E-mail)

    
    I knew it was in my notebook somwhere:
    
    You might like to cross post your note in 
    
    FUTURS:TERMINAL_ART
    
    I have seen some scanned stuff in there many moons ago, there may be 
    something or someone suitable.
    
    Robert.
    
    p.s. Hit KP7 to add to your notebook.

    
    There are alot of colour images in XRN news service I'll see if anyone
    there has any.
    
    Matt.

    
    
    Does anybody out there drive a nissan primera SLX ???
    
    I want to compare notes about the speaker systems in particular !!
    
    Gary Lowe..

Gazza,

I haven't got one, but I have been thinking of getting one maybe for
my next car. Just in case you're interested.

maybe see you on 18th.

Ian

    
    
    Yes I'll be there.. You can have a drive of my car if you want and see 
    what you think of it..
    
    Gary..
    
    

    SO are people impressed with the Primera ?
    
    Which? magazine puts it as the most reliable car in the UK, though
    there have been two recalls for brakes, and the heater is supposed to
    be dodgy !
    
    Have owners got any good/bad comments they want to add ?
    Would you buy another one ?
    Any particular dealer ?
    
    
    Durelli (thinking of getting one, maybe)
    

    
    
    >and the heater is supposed to be dodgy !
    
    I'll forward your information onto my mate who works for the company
    who designed and manufacture it, it'll make his day..
    
    But seriously, the heater is fine, but you might be thinking about the
    continuous misting of the windscreen which I believe What Car reported
    this as a nagging problem in one of their issues earlier this year..
    It has something to do with the dashboard and what it is made of,
    however a demister spray will hold it at bay for a long time..
    
    I'm happy with mine but the CAT still stinks after 15k miles and its
    embarassing pulling up to pedestrians to ask directions. Because when you
    wind down the window to ask they think the bad eggs smell drifting from
    the engine/cat is coming out of inside of the car from your bottom..
    
    Gary..

    Hi
    
    had any problems with :
    ALARM
    CHOKE
    STANDARD BLAUPUNKT RADIO
    
    Where did you get yours from ?  Which one is it ?
    
    I get nothing from the CAT except when I rev it a fair bit.
    
    Dave D. 

    
    I have a 1.6 SLX and it came from Sunderland via Birmingham..
    
    My alarm is knackered the lights flash but it doesn't make any noise..
    I haven't had time to sort it out and I have only had the car 6 months,
    for most of that time its been kapputt..
    
    No problems with the choke although I thought it was running fast at
    one point.. I'll keep an eye on it, although I live in the north and
    don't tend to spend a lot of time in traffic queue's with the engine
    idle..
    
    I don't think I have a standard BLAUPUNKT radio.. But the speakers that
    come with the car are crap if you like semi load music..
    
    And the smell, well it might be the way I drive if you associate it
    with high revs..
    
    Gary ....

    
    
    Oh by the way Dave I passed your comments onto my friend who works for
    the company that designed the heater and after clearing the steam from
    around his ears he told me that they had recieved a lot of complaints
    about the system and it is being redesigned..
    The fault seems to be getting cold air circulated through the car on
    warm days (I had forgotten about that problem as it was very rarely
    warm in the UK this year). It is supposed to be the design of the car
    that was at fault as it was designed for the Japanese and German market
    where apparently everybody gets air conditioning in their cars..
    Us tight brits would rather sweat their b*****ks off rather than pay
    the extra for air conditioning for the one day of the year it might
    actually get warm..
    
    Gary.. 

    That's fine, but try ordering air con on UK-spec Nissans!
    
    
    Stephen

    I was going to say...                        
    
    I thought I read in the accessories brochure that air-conditioning was
    not available on right hand drive vehicles.
    
    My comment about the heater comes from Which Magazine, I've had no
    problems really.  The car warms up fine, windows demist OK.
    I notice that with recirculate on they get misted, reckon thats OK, and
    that the back window gets misted up when the car is left, again no
    problem there.
    
    So I will be warm in the summer then will I ?  great.
    
    The Blaupunkt radio.  It does sound crap, haven't looked closely at the
    speakers.  It is the old type of blaupunkt melbourne, but with only 12
    presets instead of 18.
    
    Basically it doesn't keep a station for luv nor money.  I've mentioned
    this to the dealer twice, been told
    "reading is bad for reception" true, but I've not had this much trouble
    before
    "Blaupunkt radios aren't that good" !  I was taken aback at this,
    firstly they are supposed to be pretty good, secondly the guy was
    having a go at something he as just sold me !
    
    Is there any possibility that the alarm (which makes a constant whining
    noise when powered) could be disturbinmg the radio ?
    
    My alarm goes off all the Time, can't leave it on.
    
    Choke.  The car sounds like it is doing 2000 revs all the time.  It
    will go up some pretty steep hills on its own.  The other saturday I
    made my longest journey so far and the car just lost power, after 30
    miles or so I noticed my foot was on the floor and I was slowing down.
    Ended up doing 55 in 4th with foot on floor.  This seemed to clear up
    after the car was left overnight, but still sounds like high revs.
    Had this checked in the first week of having the car, apparently there
    is nothing wrong.  
    
    Got it booked in for all of these this coming saturday ! (I dont have an 
    SLX, hence no Rev counter to check, I have a large analogue clock instead !)
    
    oh well, wait til next week
    
    Dave D.
    
    PS what are servicing costs like ?

    >"Blaupunkt radios aren't that good" !  I was taken aback at this,
    
    This is true. Blaupunkt have never been highly rated in the car-stereo
    market. They just got lucky in making special deals with a lot of the
    car manufacturers. Being supplied in Mercs, Opels/Vauxhall and others
    gave them a good solid base, and they've just built on that.
    
    Change it. It doesn't cost much for a semi-decent tape-deck and radio.
    No more than �150 anymore. You may be able to get your money back from
    the dealer or you may be able to do a PX.
    
    
    
    					Lewis.

    Oh.  I suppose I thought they were good for no particular reason.
    They are (well were) fitted to Rolls-Royce, thought that was a good
    point.
    
    I have thought about changing anyway, but the radio is crap, cheap
    audiolines/saisho/goodmans stuff will beat it every time.  Blaupunkt
    should at least be comparable with these ?
    
    thanks.
    DD.

    	I thought Rolls-Royce's always had Radiomobile. (Well mine
    	did anyway :-)  )
    
    	Joe.

    Dave,
    
    Really if you want any kind of quality you have to go for Nakamichi,
    Alpine, Denon (yes they have started making ICE). Clarion and Kenwood
    seem to be going upmarket. Failing those, a Pioneer or JVC will do.

    Re .29
    I went on a tour of the factory a few years ago and they had Blaupunkt
    then, pretty fancy ones at that.
    
    Re .30
    Nakamichi, are they the ones that need the second mortgage for ?
    How about Panasonic ?  They seemed preety good in a magazine I saw the
    other day (what car hi-fi or something)
    
    Are you saying clarion and Kenwood are too expensive ? or just going
    out of fashion ?
    
    DD

RE: .1

Clarion and Kenwood going 'up market' means that they are improving, but not
yet as good as Alpine or Nakamichi.

Nakamichi easily make the best tape units; however they are not so good
on the radios. I would take an Alpine every time...

Steve

    That's right Steve,
    
    Alpine have one of the finest (if not the best) radio reception in
    all units. Alpine's Tape decks are highly regarded in the trade, and
    they are major fore-runners in new ICE CD units. Though this does
    mean that units become 'obsolete' VERY quickly. I bought a 7800F front
    load CD unit a couple of years ago (the 1st release week), 2� months
    later they upgraded the unit. Luckily i know a dealer and got another
    as a replacement. ;-)
    
    Nakamichi make the best Tape decks (seems like home hi-fi included!)
    and their range of CD players (ICE) is pretty impressive. Prices are
    high (and always have been) but are starting to lower now. A good
    Nak CD unit could set you back �600-�900. And that's a SINGLE CD front
    load unit. Radios are generally good.
    
    Denon are REALLY storming up on tape quality units. Currently
    developing a CD unit. That should should be worth a look.
    
    Kenwood are continuously improving their units. They have a good
    radio reception, good tape deck, but CD units are still lacking finer
    qualities. Won't be long though. Probably best value for money at the
    moment. Clarion are very much the same although more expensive.
    
    Pioneer and JVC are mass producers and therefor tend not to lead ICE
    development, but do eventually come out with 'copy' units. But these
    tend to be overly-complicated to try and pull back some of the trade
    with extra gizmo's and options etc...
    
    Sorry, forgot Panasonic who are also very much in the running. Tape
    decks and radios are good quality, not sure if they do a CD unit.
    
    So, really if you're looking for good quality in a certain area, then
    you should go for a specialized make (Alpine, Denon, Naka). If you're
    looking for good quality in each aspect for a reasonable price then 
    Kenwood is the way to go. Try and find F-FWD magazine in the UK. It
    deals with all kinds of ICE and has comparison tests (just like the
    CAR mags! ;-)).
    
    Don't forget, it's no good having a decent unit with crappy speakers.
    If anything is going to help improve your sound, it's the speakers.
    There are so many different types of speakers on the market that if
    you're really going to have a DECENT system installed, your best bet
    is to take your car along to a specialist car-radio shop and get them
    to run an acoustics test. This'll determine best speakers/ power output
    ratios/ specialist speakers (boom tube, sub/super woofers...) positions
    in the car. You can take it as far as you want really. I had a system 
    installed in the Jeep that set me back �1200... it sounded pretty 
    neat but still needed some more work!
    
    Hope this helps,
    
    
    					Lewis.
                   

    No real change in my car....
    
    Still got the same problems...
    
    Garage have put a new part in the carb, no revving in town now, but get
    flat spots at speed.  I think the cylinders etc, may be coked up ?
    
    Get another (not sure if it's new) radio tomorrow. This is after 2
    weeks without one.
    
    Alarm.  Knackered.
    
    Real Parcel shelf string.  Nissan have not been able to provide one of
    these for the Primera.  This for a car that is made in this country. 
    There seems to be a lot of blame on nissan parts service.
    
    AND I now have rusty dampers on the hatchback.
    
    of course I brought the car because of the high reliability record !
    
    DD

I have a Nissan Primera 1.6LX on hire at the moment. It's gots got no guts,
the pedals are so stiff I could not drive it very far, the windsreen won't
demist unless you wind up the fan, there's no room in the back, suspension is
very stiff, rear screen wiper arc leaves vision impaired, door mirrors
difficult to adjust, gearbox stiff, dash is partially hidden behind wheel,
instruments not clear.

Anything to like? Controls are not bad for a Japanese car, door mirrors give
good field of vision, generally good visability.

I'll be glad to get my Cavalier CDi back.

Dave.

    
    Can't say that my Primera has any of the faults you list except for the
    demist problem (which setting have you put it on it need to go directly
    at the screen for quickest result, 2nd from right). Everbody who has
    drien my car have remarked on how easy the pedals are to use and as for
    the adjusting of the wing mirrors ( I hope they aren't electric ones as
    it can't be any easier ) therare 3 positions to determine which mirror
    left right neutral (which is an excellent idea to stop "what does this
    do " people screwing up your setting) once you select your mirror then
    tere is a square shape push putton which you use to control up down
    left right. How is this difficult unless you have manual adjust
    mirrors.
    
    Its got no guts, what are you comparing it with ??
    
    Horses for courses and all that !!
    
    A trifle picky one thinks !!
    
    G.

re.36:

The one I drove had 1024 miles on the clock when I picked it up, maybe that
accounts for the stiffness.

The mirrors were manual.

As to no guts, I was comparing it to the only other 1.6 engined cars driven
recently; 1.6i Orion and 1.6L Montego.

> A trifle picky one thinks !

Given the cost of a new motor can you afford to be anything else?

Dave.

    
    1.6L Montego ??? Are you sure ??
    
    I've just spoken to another Primera owner who's previous car was a
    Orion 1.6i and he said the Primera was more "gutsier". Saying that
    he was driving the older version g plate. Plus the Orion is smaller
    than the Primera and I wouldn't consider it in the same range, more
    comparable to the Rover 216, Astra Belmont and Renault 19 Chamade.
    
    G.
    
    

re.38:

I'm sure, it felt like they'd done up all the bolts too tight. I had to wait
for major gaps at roundabouts and people kept driving right up the rear end.

It was a daug.

Dave.

    
    
    Feed it back to the hire company and they'll get it sorted. 
    
    
    G.

    
    >Problem needs reporting before someone gets hurt.
    
    Is that a threat?
    
    Tim

    
    .37
    
    Strange, I thought that after I'd driven the author of .40's
    Primera.....
    
    (but don't critise it or he gets touchy..)
    
    :-)
    
    Paul

I'm very objective about cars unless there's a ;-) in the text.

Dave.

    
    
    Primera -   Good for producing custom gravel resprays.
    
    
    Thanks Loweg.  
    
    
    GaryW

Garys

That wasn't gravel. If I remember rightly it was fist-sized chunks of rock...


Ian

    
    
    SSSSSSSShhhhhhhhhhhh lads, fleet might be listening !!
    
    
    

    
    Im sure that was to blame for the split radiator and chipped
    windscreen. 
    
    As they say in the films...
    
    Im gonna git you sucker !!.
    
    

    
    The chipped windscreen was from the inside wasn't it ??
    
    
    
    
    And wasn't the chip about the size of the base of a stilleto heel ??
    
    
    
    Only joking..
    
    
    
    Or am I ??
    
    

    
    
    MMmmmm yes I remember now.
    
    Certainly worth scuffing the door trims for.
    
    Anybody else tried it in an MR2 ??? ;-)
    
    GaryW

Dropped my car off for service this morning, and then wondered why the hire car
chappy pointed me in the direction of the car and ran off. Yes, you've guessed
it, a Primera! A really bad start to the day!

Still, I have to say it was a great improvement over my last experience, apart
from the performance. This thing is a slug! My wife's Cavalier 1.4L leaves it
standing! 

Dave.

    
    
    Take the hand brake off !!
    
    
    Hope this helps.

re.51:

Actually, I did wonder about this, but I double checked and it wasn't on. This
car has absolutely no grunt when compared with other cars in it's class.

It's not all bad mind you, the ride and handling are good, although it lacks
feel and noise levels were excessive for a car with only 49 miles on the clock.

Dave.

The "Series 2" Primera 1600 (twin cam 16v injection) is good .... faster than 
an 1800i Cavalier, and not too far short of the 2000i. It produces 103 BHP.

The "Series 2" came available in early October '93 ... my wife has the 1600L, 
which for the base model is good. Knocks spots off the Cavalier 1600 Envoy.

The previous 1600 Primera ("Series 1"?) wasn't injection.


			Steve.

BTW ... I would never trust a hire car as representative of the model!

>BTW ... I would never trust a hire car as representative of the model!

What brand new with 28 miles on the clock?

Dave.

    Re: -1
    
    It's probably been caned for those 28 miles. :-)
    
    Clive.

    
    
    I've sussed it. The problem was that you have been driving the Primera
    in reverse gear.
    
    In .52 you said it had 49 miles on the clock.
    In .54 you said it had 28 miles on the clock.
    
    That explains it.
    

re.56:

Yes, that's because I discarded the hire car's delivery documentation yesterday
and it said 28 miles, whereas, as you rightly point out it had in fact done
a few more before I'd got my mits on it but I'd forgotten.

Dave.

    
    re .56
    
    Gary,
    
    face facts - Primera's are pretty **** - well the one that I borrowed
    off a colleague was.....
    
    I totally agree with Mr Kerrell (for once....)
    
    
    Paul

    
    
    Paul, I think you are confusing me, with someone who cares what you
    think.
    
    
    However, as I seem to be the odd one out, I think I better adopt the,
    "if you can't beat them, join them", attitude.
    
    
    My Nissan Primera is crap, it keeps getting dirty and its so un-gutsy that
    I haven't been asked to enter it in the Indy Car Championship. My son's
    plastic BMX style bike can beat it.

 >>>	My son's
 >>>	   plastic BMX style bike can beat it.

	Is that whilst it is still in its wrapping?

				Malcolm.

    forget the cars,
    
    as anyone called up Nissan with problems etc.
    
    durelli

    I picked up a Primera 2000e GT Saloon from the Take-over pool about two
    months ago.  I believe it belonged to David White who was possibly made
    redundant.  Anyway he saw fit not to leave any handbooks, service book or 
    spare key with Car Fleet or the vehicle.
    
    I have a couple of questions:
    
    The tyres are the low profile MVX2 (?).  What are the recommended tyre
    pressures all round?
    
    The oil pressure is reallu up and down - do I assume from this that a
    10/40 is the recommended lube?
    
    Thanks in advance,
    
    Clive.
    
    

    tyre pressure is displayed on the pillar behind the drivers door, just
    by the lock.  

    Well there you go!  I always get in the passenger side :-)
    
    I'll have a look tonight.  Many thanks.
    
    Clive.
                

    Anybody had any problems with rear screen demister ?
    
    I don't remember any problems last year, but now it seems the rear
    screen never clears...
    
    I can leave the demister on for 30 mins or so and it still doesn't
    clear, it goes into stripes, with no moisture around the elements, but
    doesn't clear fully between elements...
    
    I would have thought that after 30 mins it would clear regardless of
    power going through the elements ?
    
    
    Dave D.

    I have a similar problem now and then with my Astra, but its not a
    regular thing.  I also get a lot of problems these days with dirt on
    the inside of the window, and ice/frost on the inside also.  I was
    beginning to think there may be a break in the seal around the window,
    or a large hole somewhere?  
    
    Mikef

    Funny you should say that...
    
    I hadn't thought of it myself but the damper rods and various bit of
    metal at the top of the Hatchback have some pretty bad rust on them
    (meaning to report it but not got round to it) and this could have
    something to do with the seal.
    
    Cheers
    
    Dave D.

    
    now that you've mentioned the dreaded Rust; is the earth lead from the
    Heated Rear Window attached to one of the struts ?? could be that it's
    not earthing well with all the rust and associated damp, try running a
    lead from a different earth point to the earth on the window....
    
    Of course, I suppose you've checked that there is current reaching the
    window ?? The glass would have a tendency to clear around the wires
    first whether or not the window was working %^)..
    
    Graham

I thought that Japanese companies car were supposed to be so good!

How old is this thing?

				Malcolm.

    The car is approx 14 months old.
    
    Within weeks (couple of months) the struts in the Hatchback dampers
    were Getting a lite rust on them, depositing this on the dampers each
    time the Hatchback is opened, this is still the case.
    
    Then there is a black piece of metal at the inner top of the Hatchback,
    I'd say it was there to stop water getting into the boot when you open
    a wet hatchback (if you get my confused meaning)
    
    Anyway, that started with a light rust after 6 months or so and now has
    some pretty serious corrosion on it (metal breaking up type corrosion). 
    It is not the actual body work, and is only visible when the Hatchback
    is open.
    
    My understanding is that the onus is on me to report these problems
    otherwise I lose my paint warranty, must get round to that soon.
    
    As for  the demister I haven't tested anything, only came to the
    conclusion that there is something not right about it last night.
    I assumed there was current cause it does clear around the stripes,
    whats the best way of testing it ?
    
    The earth lead are you saying test the connection at the window or
    somewhere else ?
    
    If I take it for the rust I may as well make a day of it and get the
    demister looked at.
    
    cheers for the Help
    
    Dave D.

    Car is now 20/21 months old, just had the 36k miles service. (C
    service)
    
    again there was a big price difference between Local Dealers, blamed on
    the cost of oil and lubricants !!!! so shop around !
    
    No fault found with heated rear, rust is not on body work, as nothing
    to do with paint warranty.
    
    I've had no problems with the car since the first service, they found
    two !
    
    1) New air filter box.  There is a small bore pipe that comes from the
    manifold, to a valve type thing mounted by the suspension mount and
    then goes into the air filter box behind the air filter.  Not sure what
    it does.  The box around this pipe is completly broken and is now being
    replaced under warranty (though Brian Grubby in Camberley wanted 130
    quid for it).
    
    2)  Brake discs re-facing.  The pads are original and are expected to
    last to about 50k miles (pretty good) and will then be 35 quid to
    replace.  The Discs are 'blueing' and need to be re-faced, not
    re-skimmed etc.  This is apprently due to overheating and High speed
    braking was mentioned.  It is not covered under warranty, only
    re-skimming.
    	So why is there a problem if the discs go blue, will the
    harder/softer steel have different friction properties ?
    	Is this sort of thing common ?  I haven't done anything out of the
    ordinary with the brakes as seen by there 50k life.
    	Do you reckon there is a design fault if the brakes overheat ?
    
    The only other point is that the 'Road Test' of the car after the 36k
    service (new brake fluid,coolant etc) was significantly less than 1
    tenth of a mile !!!!  ie from the parking space to the workshop and
    back !
    
    Total service cost upto 36k miles is 370 quid
    (45 + 100 + 45 + 180)
    
    cheers
    
    Dave D.

>>>   	Do you reckon there is a design fault if the brakes overheat ?
    


	Yup!  I can just imagine the Le Mans Jaguars, when they first had Disk
Brakes (that glowed white hot at the end of the Mulsanne Straight, every lap -
all 250 laps or so of them), having to be changed because they were "blue'd."

	I would touch a Nissan of any sort with a barge pole!  Your Garage
experiences back up all the adverse comments that I have ever heard about Nissan
service too.

				Malcolm.

    Most people I talk to always think of Nissan(and the japanese) being a
    quality company, cars,dealers and service.
    
    Not so !

    So I booked the car in to have the air filter box replaced under
    warranty.
    
    Arranged for saturday morning, Slough.  No problem.
    
    They asked for the chassis number so they could get the correct part
    in, as they might change over the range.
    
    I phoned up with the Chassis number, the reply
    
    "Thats a Nightmare !"
    
    I asked what was a nightmare ?  my car, air filter boxs ?
    They were overbooked for saturday morning, please get the car in for
    8:30 prompt.  (obviously I wan't impressed, they made a mistake, asked
    me to compensate for it, and then came out the Nightmare line)
    
    Saturday Morning, 8:30.  I pull on to the fourcourt, hand over the
    keys, everything fine.  The workshop hadn't opened, they weren't ready
    for the car.  I strolled round town.
    
    Got back at 11, saw another Primeria being driven around by a maniac,
    then realised it was the service receptionist bringing a car to the
    door for a customer. (Mental note to walk round and pick my own car
    up).
    
    "There's a problem, sir"
    "The Nut holding the air filter box on is broken, we don't have a
    spare"
    "No, its Not, I took the top off last week, it was all fine, there's a
    pipe broken"
    "No sir its the Nut"
    "No, its a pipe, I saw it with my own eyes"
    "Hold on sir, I'll get the Technician!"
    
    I was then led through the workshop with the words
    "Please be careful, you're not insured"
    
    Met the guy that 'did' my car.  He pointed to a hole and said there
    was a nut missing.
    I picked up this pipe and showed him the box was broken.
    He missed that.
    
    So a professional mechanic was told there was a problem with a
    particular bit of the engine and failed to notice this bloody great
    pipe hanging off !@!
    
    I asked what the pipe was...
    .. the unleaded breather control valve (sounds like a load of jargon
    strung together to me).
    Is it a problem..... No the car won't miss it
    (As though it were put there to make the engine look more complex)
    
    So it was eleven AM, I'd shown them the fault
    
    The service receptionist, who was stood just by my car, snapped
    "We haven't got that part in either, I don't know what we've got buts
    it not that"
    (This after the chasis number had been given over!)
    
    She then went on to say that I'd have to pay (I lost my rag a bit now
    insisting it was warranty work).  The air filter box is covered under
    warranty, the 'missing' nut would have to be paid for or found.
    
    They said they'd get the part in and call me !  (No word yet)
    
    SO I drove miles, wasted a morning, and achieved nothing !!
    
    I phoned up Camberley to tell them about the missing Nut,
    'Very suspicous, there's only 1 Nut, not two, we'd need to 
    see it before we could do anything.
    
    I forgot to mention that Camberley overbooked when I had the service
    done.
    
    When I was having all the problems with carb at Reading, I took the car
    in for a full day, they already knew they had a problem with the carb
    But came out with the line about not having the part in.
    (seems this was a lie to cover up the fact they didn't know what they
    were doing !)
    
    Got the distinct impression that Slough had overbooked themselves and
    couldn't be bothered to fix my car, the mechanic probably had one
    quick look at the car, hence the failure not to get the part.
    
    Motto.  Save the petrol and time, get the work done in Reading cause
    there all as bad as one another.  

If you're in Basingstoke, then Ralphs seems to be the best bet.

    re .76
    
    Have you raised this with Nissan GB ?
    
    I would be interested to see what there response is.  
    
    
    Nigel guest_n  

    Sorry, but the service at Ralph's is not always good.
    
    I took mine in to have 1) the brake pad warning light fixed 2) the
    sunroof rattles 3) the exhaust bangs against the bottom of the car.
    
    I went to collect the car, shut the door and the sunroof rattled, drove
    up the bumpy road and the exhaust banged against the bottom of the car
    and on the way home the brake pad warning light came on... :-(
    
    I'll be booking it in to Cloverleaf at Alton in future.
    
    tmp

    re .79
    
    NISSAN GB, I've got stories about them too !!!
    
    and Nissan Europe !
    
    When I got the car I had loads of problems with carbs,radios,alarms and
    rear parcel shelves.  In the garage (Reading) Numerous times.  I phoned
    the garage, phoned Nissan GB loads of times, Nothing.
    
    People did not return my calls.  The only time I got any response was
    when I lost my rag completely (just to get them to talk to me, forget
    the car) and I got two calls.
    
    The dealer lied to me pretty openly.
    
    The probelm revolved around the fact that Nissan GB had a technician do
    the work on the carb, cause Reading couldn't.  Nissan GB denied they
    had any technicians.  I was left phoning both up in the middle of their
    argument.
    
    I called Nissan Europe 3 times.
    
    1) Got an answer phone, left a message.  No response
    2) Got through to a woman, she said all she could do was get Nissan GB
    to call me back.  No response.
    3) Got through to the same woman.  Nissan GB called me.  Achieved
    nothing.
    
    Nissan Europe is one woman, she as no power and leaves an answer phone
    on when she goes to lunch.
    
    I wrote to Nissan GB twice.
    
    The second time I demanded a reply within a week. (hopeful for an
    answer, but really did expect a short note as a matter of courtesy)
    
    Gave it ten days.  Phoned up to ask where my letter was.
    " But sir, we have a 3 week backlog in reading out mail "
    I laughed at that.
    
    In May 1993 Davenport Vernon Reading appointed a service manager (they
    didn't have one before) he said he'd get to the bottom of this and call
    me back.  I never heard off him again. 
    
    
    ( I wanted to know what was wrong with my car and what was done to fix it
    (future problems/warranty claims etc))
    
	I generally gave up on Nissan GB.
    
    I did phone recently though asking about services.
    The first guy didn't know, said he'd get back to me, but
    never did.  Phoned up again, I asked about the above again too.  Spoke
    to a Louise, she said she'd call me back with the answer, at 4:45pm
    She called me back !!!!  I nearly fell of my seat.
    
    I phoned up last saturday morning to mention the Slough problem.
    They were closed and asked me to call my local Dealer.
    The only reason you'd call them is to complain about your local dealer
    !!!
    
    Oh, and the're called Customer Relations, Not Complaints !!
    The're manager is (well was) Mr L. Gerry.  If I ever meet him, I'll
    have a few words for him.
    
    Dave D. 

Also, call International Directory Enquiries, and get the number for Nissan
head office in Japan.

Maybe they are unaware of how bad Nissan GB and Nissan Europe are.

I'm sure they would also refund you the cost of the call.

Mark.

    Just a different storey......
    
    My Nissan Primera V2.0 LX Estate has done 38,000 miles over the last 15
    months.
    Do I like it?? I think so.... why aren't you sure?? 'cos it  just does
    everything, easily, smoothly, no fuss, no excitement, competently and 
    quietly.
    If it went wrong, at least I could get excited with it!
    If it went very fast, at least I could get excited at the police!
    It it used too much petrol, I could complain about 8p a mile!
    It it used too little, I could join in the "saving the planet"
    discussions.....
    
    I like it (I think).
    
    What about the garage and the servicing?? (Newbury, Park House Motors,
    Andover Road)...
    
    I haven't the faintest idea!!  
    It has had 4 services at a regular 9,000 miles) and one extra visit
    (alternator bearing making a bit of noise) over the last year... each
    time the garage has been quick and polite.
    But have they been competent at fixing things?? No idea - after the
    service it has felt marginally better than before.... but as it has
    never gone wrong I don't know how good they have been.
    
    Yes I do like it - I like the "no fuss".... 
    Now compare that to the Vauxhall's I  have had for the previous 12
    years! - VERY polite garages, with almost total incompetence, and cars
    that regularly break down.
    
    Cheers, Chris

	All I can write, is thank goodness for Citro�n and all their garages
I've been to except one (Off-line for any other details on that one) since 1988.

	The last few replies have confirmed all my feelings about Nissan and
their dealers, I had thought it was only AFG, but obviously I was in error there
too.

				Malcolm.

    All my dealings with Davenport Vernon from sales through to after sales
    support (ie servicing etc) have been well below par.
    
    From their inability to fix things - like a squeeky brake pedal (3
    attempts - still squeeks) a leaky roof (3 attempts too, seems ok now
    mind) to getting a quota to fix some stone chips on the bonnet - no
    luck with that one.
    
    
    Makes one wonder how some companies stay in business.
    
    -paul- A happy 300zx owner, not a happy Nissan customer.

    More news....
    
    I popped into Reading parts dept. yesterday.
    The 'missing' nut and bolt on the Air Filter Box does not show up on
    the microfiche of the Air filter box.  Explained the situation to the
    guy and the hole being their and he said it was probably a
    international thing.
    
    So Camberley and Reading reckon there is no Nut and Bolt.  Slough do.
    
    As for Slough, it seems they have not managed to find an Air Filter box
    in the past week (cause they haven't called !) must be in really short
    supply (none in the country) as they've had a few weeks to find it now.
    
    I have thought about writing to What Car, The consumers association,
    and the Motor Manufacturers body (whatever it's called) but I thought
    long term the idea of being a known 'bad' customer would be more
    detremental.  The garage could rob me blind and I don't know that much
    about cars to counter it.
    
    One other point.  After about 6 months I brought 'half' of a remote
    alarm activator box (the little thing you carry with your keys, only 1
    half of the box!) for 2.50 from Reading.  A couple of weeks ago I
    brought the full box for 94p from Slough.  Bit of a price difference
    there. !
    
    See ya
    
    Dave D.
    (Still with the Blue disks and broken unleaded breather control valve
    !)
    
    (That pipe as been broken for a good few weeks now, hate to think what
    sort of things have got into the carburettor in that time !)
    

    1	Go to the agent you've got most confidence in 
    	and/or where you find the staff most helpful.
    
    2	Ask to see the service manager.
    
    3	Describe the run around you've had so far.
    
    4	Ask him what you can do to help him get the mess sorted.
    
    	Now it's his problem, too.

Dave

If you are paying for the car through a finance company, I would get them 
involved. I think they have a legal obligation to ensure the goods supplied are
fit for there intended purpose.

The other option you could take is to write notifying the garage/Nissan UK
that your intention is to charge them for your inconvience all the time it 
does'nt get resolved.Invoice the B***gers for every visit, phone you make 
and letter you write. 

Okay they probably will not pay but you can phone up and tell them your 
invoice is overdue and this phone call or letter attracts further 
charges and interest etc. Threaten them with giving their name to credit 
reference agencies, the small claims court, a winding up order against them.

How far do wish to take it? I you make yourself the biggest pain in the 
backside and I'm sure you get some action. 

Dave

    Keeping you up to date.         
    
    Got no where with Nissan Slough, Maidenhead said they could do it in my
    lunch hour(simple job!).  So i went there, the guy had the correct part
    in his hand was ready to  fit it too.
    
    One look at this pipe
    "Thats been butchered, can't get that under warranty"
    
    Never really looked at it myself, but there are some deep V's in the
    plactic like someone as had a go with a screwdriver.
    
    So I left empty handed
    
    Phoned Nissan GB, had loads of problems with them, not least of which
    someone arguing with me about who I (the customer) wanted to talk too !
    
    Basically they are washing their hands of it.
    Not covered under warranty, take it up witht the dealer.
    I mentioned that 4 dealers have worked on the car.
    Take it up with the one most likely to have done it.
    You'll need to prove that they did it !
    Nissan GB have worked on my car, have to go through the dealer.
    Said that I've only driven the car, followed the recomended service
    guidelines, at authorized Nissan Dealers.  Still nothing.  You don't
    cover the work of your dealers then, NO, they are separate business's.
    
    SO what is proof, need to take the Video camera into the service bay
    next time, else it will only be your word against theirs.
    
    Mentioned the NUT and Bolt.  This is having to come from Japan, or is
    being MADE to order in Europe !!!  ETA unknown, good job the car goes
    without it !!!.
    
    Took the car into Reading at the weekend, showd them the pipe,
    "Yes Sir, we'll have that replaced under warranty, is Next Saturdaqy
    OK ?" (No mention of butchery !)
    The only thing now is that they have to get the part without setting of
    some alarms or whatever at NISSAN HQ !
    
    My next service is in 5k+miles, I have the battle of the blue brake
    disks to look forward to them, then 54k miles is the cam belt.
    
    You can with a Nissan !

Give up, and get rid of this car!

    Remember the missing Bolt that holds the air filter down ?.....
    
    Well it was discovered missing by Nissan Slough 23rd July.  I don't
    know how long it had been missing, but probably since the first few
    weeks cause of all the work done on the carb. (this was about the same
    time as the air filter was 'butchered').
    
    This Nut was apparently not in Europe and had to come from Japan, or be
    made in Europe.
    
    I've phoned Slough a couple of times to check that it isn't in (cause
    they seem a bit reluctant to phone) and confirm that it was still on
    order.  The guy didn't seem to surprised that a part was on order for
    over 2 months.
    
    But with 10 weeks I decided to phone Nissan GB to see whne I might
    expect this part, cause Slough could only tell me that it was on order.
    
    Got a phone call back from Nissan GB today, the part will be with
    Slough this week, not sure why it as taken so long, no explanantion.
    
    Got the impression from this that they have managed to find this part
    and there as been some internal cock up.
    
    This isn't the first time they've blamed their parts system.
    2.5 months does seem extreme thouhgh, just imagine if the car had been
    off the road or something !  It's not like its an old or obsolete car
    either !
    
    The air filter housing was fitted by Nissan Reading without much fuss
    (didn't get to the fact that I blamed them for it being damaged) but
    they left a vacume pipe hanging of the carb and a breather pipe hanging
    off the air filter)
    
    Only 3.5K miles to the next service and the battle of the Blue brake
    disc's !
    
    Dave D.

    I've seen a 2.0SLX Primera that I'm interested in - 92K, one owner,
    33000 miles - it seems to be immaculate.
    
    After reading these notes I'm not so sure.
    
    However, on a technical front can anyone tell me if there is a major
    difference between the 92 2.0 single-point injection and the 93 2.0
    multi-point injection?  and would it be worth paying significantly more
    for it?
    
    
    Xtine

    
    Multi point FI usually gives better power and/or economy - Single point
    is usually the cheap alternative to multi-point (basically it drops
    fuel into an inlet manifold and lets the engine take what it wants
    whereas MP gives each cylinder a measured amount - very simplified).
    
    I doubt it's worth paying 'significantly more' for, though. With a used
    car the overall condition is likely to be more important.
    
    Mark
        

    Sounds like I'd be better getting this one then - 
    
    it seems late 93 models are few and far between in fact I've tried
    every Nissan dealer around Milton Keynes, Reading etc.  The only thing 
    that might come in are ex-company cars from Nissan on 1st August... 
    
    the 92 model is one private owner... full service history etc.
    and if I want it I guess I shouldn't take the risk of waiting till Aug
    1st.
    
    
    Xtine
    
    ps. Would a one owner Cavalier 1.8GL (92K, 20000 miles, FSH) for approx
    +�700 be a better deal?  Again, have to wait till Aug 1st to see it!
    
    
    
    

    
    Whether you prefer the Primera or the Cavalier is probably a matter of
    taste, but note that the Cavalier is due for replacement 'real soon'!
    That'll knock the value of old style ones very quickly - I don't know
    about the Primera's likely lifespan.
    
    FWIW, the Primera (in sporty form anyway) is a highly rated saloon for
    handling, whereas the Cavalier is not, although Cavalier's (Vauxhalls
    in general - excluding silly 4WD models?) seem very economical.
                                                        
    Mark

    I'm going to have another look tomorrow night... I think the Primera's
    seats are more adjustable and comfortable, and comfort is probably my
    prime concern as I am suffering neck strain in my Metro.
    
    (admittedly both cars should be better than the Metro....;-))
    
    
    
    Xtine

re.99:

The Primera seats more ajustable compared to a Cavalier? I'm surprised as the
Cavalier has (in addition to the bog standard rails) height, rake, and lumbar
adjustments.

Dave.

    I believe that the 92GL doesn't have lumbar.  The Primera has that, and
    the front and back of the seat can be adjusted independantly.
    
    Anyhow, dealer just called and offered to throw in 12 months unlimited
    mileage warranty - good as I often do 750 miles/wk.
    
    Unforunately my suspicious side is now wondering why he's so keen to
    sell it?  Maybe it really is to increase his July sales??
    
    
    Xtine
    
    ps. The bonnet has 2 or 3 stone chips - any idea how much is reasonable
    to pay to have these rectified (as the car is metallic I don't fancy
    tackling it myself).  Is it worth it?

    � ps. The bonnet has 2 or 3 stone chips - any idea how much is
    � reasonable to pay to have these rectified 
    
    Errr. I'd say �0.00 - Tell the dealer you want them fixed. If he says
    no, walk away. It's a buyers market, don't be suspicious about the
    warranty - they cost next to nothing for the dealer, just give you
    peace of mind - he's just throwing in sweeteners to make the sale.
    
    If you fancy this car, see what else he's prepared to offer - perhaps 
    free servicing for a year? If he's stubborn go and look for another
    car, after all Primeras/Cavaliers are hardly F40s - you'll find
    something else you like quickly enough.
    
    Remember, YOU are in the position of strength.
    
    Mark                                          

    Xstine, If you want this car, play it cool and say you'd be interested
    if they knock a couple of hundred of it, give you 12 months road tax, full
    tank of fuel plus the warranty offered. You may not get it all but its
    worth a try. He may meet you in the middle. He is keen to move the car
    and you are in a position of strength and definately tell them to get
    the stone chips sorted and anything else that you can find wrong with
    it.           
    
    Royston

    
    re:.98
    
    A mate of mine who ran Cavaliers for years now has a Primera (through
    choice).  He reckons it's difficult to get 300-odd miles out of a
    tankfull with the Nissan, whereas me with me heavy right foot manage
    consistently 400-450 out of the Cavalier.  He also commented on the
    comfort of the Cavalier - seems he misses it in the Primera a bit.
    
    But as you say, the new Vectra will be out before the end of the year,
    and looking like a fresher A4 shape it should sell well.
    
    Chris.

    
    it's not so much how far you can go no atank, but how big the tank is !
    
    I consistently get 400-450 out of my Frontera Sport, but it has an 18
    gallon tank %^/
    
    graham

    Well... I hope its not too bad... cos I've bought it!
    
    I did take the precaution of phoning the previous owner and asking a
    few questions - reckoned as he had already traded it in he wouldn't
    have an axe to grind.
    
    He reckoned on 35 MPG normally and 40MPG+ on long motorway runs... I
    will start keeping a check on it.
    
    I'm fairly sure the tank on the Primera isn't as big as the one on
    Cavalier, but it'll be bigger than the 25L tank in my Metro!
    
    I decided on this one as I felt the dealer was open to bargaining, I
    read up on the older models in back copies of What Car in the library.  
    
    They said the fuel economy was comparable with the 2.0 Cavalier -
    obviously not as good as the 1.8 that I was considering, but then it is
    also significantly faster than the 1.8!
    
    After I bought it I heard that Which magazine this month rated the
    Primera as best buy for used cars in its size... 
    
    
    Anyhow... will put in a report once I've driven it a bit.
    
    
    Xtine

    PS.  I took the advice and bargained a bit more...
    
    got another $350 off the price, increased service from a standard one
    to the 36,000 mile one which was imminent (Nissan wanted �220 for
    that!), paint chips done etc.
    
    Maybe I could've got more if I'd been a bloke?  But I saw three others
    same year with mileages from 21000 to 43000 miles and they were all
    more rusty (funny they all go on the bolt on drivers side of hatch),
    more chips and two had been smoked in - window prices ranged from �7999
    to $8999 and although I didn't negotiate I doubt I could have got �1400
    off them...
    
    
    Xtine

>After I bought it I heard that Which magazine this month rated the
>Primera as best buy for used cars in its size... 
 
I also read this with amazement. This claim seems to be based on two factors

1) reliability
2) owners opinion

I've not had an unreliable car for years, and 2) is easily dismissed, after all
most Proton owners are happy!

Dave.

    Well,
    
    I didn't see the report, so it didn't influence my decision...
    
    but it is nice to see it didn't say it was a load of cr*p... which of
    course it may be ;-)
    
    
    
    Xtine...

    Just to update...
    
    
    car seems fine... no problems so far...
    
    Fuel economy is 32mpg on country lanes/short journeys in Reading
    and 38mpg on motorway runs....
    
    
    Xtine

    Having had enough problems to last a life time with 2 new Fiats I
    decided to buy a Nissan Primera based on reliability, value and
    performance.
    
    So I'm now the owner of a Primera 2.0eGT on a J plate in mint condition
    with what appears to be a genuine 26,000 miles on the clock - the car 
    still drives as new for �6000.00
    
    Problem is, Im now upgrading the standard fit stereo, I have bought a
    Kenwood KDC5030L in dash CD unit, which seems to be well liked by the
    press, BUT, the Nissan has a diversity antenna ( i.e. two aerials ),
    the connector for which is obviously not compatible with the standard
    (DIN ? ) connector on the Kenwood. Does anybody have any suggestions as
    to how to adapt this ( i.e. does anybody make an adapter and where can
    I get one from )
    
    
    Cheers
    
    Rick