Conference terri::cars_uk

This sound like a head gasket to me.  When you turn the engine off, the
pressurised coolant is forced into the cylinders.  When you start it, it
vapourises causing the steam.  Check also for "cream" in the oil filler cap
which is a symptom of water in the oil.

I suppose it's also possible that a turbo bearing is on the way out, leaking
oil into the exhaust.

Mike

    Hi,
    	I had a look this morning after I had started the car up.  There is
    water dripping from the exhaust but after a five minute run this this
    has stopped completely.  The car is not using water, no top up in 7000
    miles.  Neither does it appear to be burning oil.  I've had it
    suggested that after a run I should let the engine idle for a minute,
    before switching off.  Or give the engine a rev or two before switching
    off.  Any more clues greatly appreciated.
    
    
    Bruce

>>, no top up in 7000
    miles.  Neither does it appear to be burning oil.  I've had it
    suggested that after a run I should let the engine idle for a minute,
    before switching off.  Or give the engine a rev or two before switching
    off.  
>>



this is only really going to help lubricate the turbo unit (assuming its
oil cooled)

..art

>>       <<< Note 1050.2 by COMICS::MILLAR "No Porn please I'm Graphic" >>>
>>                         -< No Smoke Without Water !! >-
>>    	I had a look this morning after I had started the car up.  There is
>>    water dripping from the exhaust but after a five minute run this this
>>    has stopped completely.  The car is not using water, no top up in 7000
    
    
    This is normal, the exhaust gasses always contains some water, as the
    ehaust system cools down it condenses out into the pipe, and gets
    ejected on first starting up.
    
    Richard

If it's not using water or oil, then there's probably not much wrong with it. It
may just be running very rich at idle when cold.

I have heard that the turbo should be allowed to idle for a minute or so after a
fast run before turning the engine off to avoid burning the oil in the turbo
bearings.

Mike.

    I thought you should NEVER rev the car after a journey, as all this
    achieves is to remove oil from the cylinders, resulting in damaged
    rings etc etc. However you should let the car idle for a bit so
    that the turbo unit can dissapate heat away (it will be much hotter
    than the rest of the engine.)
    
    Ric

    thats correct ric

	Smoke when an engine is started and on the overrun is 
	characteristic of worn valve guides. Oil seeps down them
	while parked and is sucked down on the overrun by the
	vacuum in the cylinders.

	However in view of the newness of this car this seems 
	so unlikely a cause.

	-John

    Maybe it's a Ford "feature"
    
    Yesterday an XR3i went for it at the lights, from a standing position
    next too me, just for the heck of it I floored my Renault 5 Turbo....
    
    You should have seen the smoke coming from his exhaust, I could see it
    in my rear view over the top of his car!!
    
    Greg

    When will you stop playing with the slow Fords ;-)
    
    Pick on someone you're own size - like a PUG 1.9 GTI ;-)
    
    Lewis.

    RE' PUG 1.9's
    
    They seem to get the best view of the rear end of my "slow Ford".
    
    Do the PUGS always come standard with the towbar on the front ;*)
    
    
    Bruce

    i have a couple of pug 1.9 gti's stuck in the tread of the tyres on my 
    XR3i.
    
            yours a high performance car owner.
                                        josh.

  >  i have a couple of pug 1.9 gti's stuck in the tread of the tyres on my 
  >  XR3i.
    
  >          yours a high performance car owner.
    
    So what 'high performance' car have you got then?
    
    Craig.

    RE: -2
    
    That's what you get for driving over a row of parked pug 1.9l 205
    Gti's !!!
    
    Maybe you didn't see them because the furry dice got in the way !!!
    
    Steven

    There is a pug 1.9 205 gti where I stay The vicars wife own's it.
    By the way, did peugeot ever get round to finishing off the door panels
    or is there still 2" of bare metal.
    Are the Garfield's on the side windows an extra or a standard factory
    fitment.
    As for a renault 5 GT Turbo, You'd better not brake too fast or you
    might split your head on the plastic dashboard.
    Only a nation where men openly kiss each other could produce a couple
    of nancy-boy motors as these.
                   your's JOSH XR3i OWNER.

    re-1
    
    At least Renault & Pugeot make their own sporting cars and don't
    have to get another company to make then a decent car.

    How many sporting cars have Ford made themselves ?
        
    Grant

RE: -.1

Apart from the GT40, I can't think of any others... :-)

    RE-.1
    
    Have'nt you heard of the 'cossie' or are they still using stage coaches
    where you are ???
    I don't really understand the pervious comment that ford get someone
    else to make their performance cars. Although the 'real' performance
    cars were made in the old AVO and new SVE establishments they are still
    'FORDS'. I don't know about Peugeot but Renault also produce their real
    performance cars in this way (ie GTA V6 turbo)
    
     

    re-1
    
    Exactly Ford had to get Cosworth to make the RS into a real sporting
    car.
    
    The only real Ford performance cars that ford make are the 
    
    Mustang 5.0 GT
    Mustang SVO
    Tunderbird Super Coupe
    ??
    
    Grant

    What about the RS escorts ?????
    In their day they won about every major rally competition and are still
    doing well in the smaller regional rallies after about 12 yrs !!!!!
    
    
    						Geo.
    

    re-1
    
    That was then this is now.
    
    Grant

    
    Re.-1
    	Exactly, they were winning THEN and still perform well NOW.
    Maybe i'm a little too biased toward Ford's as out of the 15 or so cars
    i've owned only 3 were non-Ford (2 mantas and a datsun 100A). I've
    always found their 'sports' cars to perform well, handle well and look
    good with the exception of my current 3.0S Capri which is severely
    lacking in the handling dept.
    What car are you driving at the moment Grant ? and what has been your
    experience (if any) of Fords.
    
                                        	Geo.
    
    P.S  Tonight is the last day of my shift so I won't be able to continue
    this 'discussion' until next Tuesday.
    
    					

And Peugeots have been winning for the last x years.

Who cares ?

Point is "is it a good car or not ?" Not does it lay longer strips of rubber
at the lights than another car.

I'd like to own a cossie, but by pug gti is (by far) the most dynamic
handling car I've ever driven (over 15 years). Not the fastest, but the most
enjoyable.

I like fords too, but don't think the xr(n) compares. Sorry.

    re.26
    
    Well I don't drive but we have had 3 Fords
    
    A MK2 Cortina 1600E
    2 Mk3 Cortinas
    
    The only good one out of the 3 was the 1600E.
    
    We have hired various Fords including
    
    A Capri
    several Granadas (The last one of whitch was back in 1985.  That
    was a 2.8 Ghia Estate that broke down 2 days before a trip to cornwall.

    As far as the current Fords go the XR series of cars are a joke
    Peugeot & Renult would not dare put the 'Boy Racer" crap that Ford
    put on the XR2,3,4x4 as well as not even putting a performance 
    engine in them.
    
    Grant

>>    The only good one out of the 3 was the 1600E.


agree 'bout the mk2 1600E a nice car

always thought that XR's catered for the "show rather than go league"


...art

    
    
    Can I suggest you leave the XR4x4 out of this discussion Grant?
    Unless you want me to come over and sit on you....:-)
    
    If you had ever driven one, you would know it was in an entirely
    different league from the XR2/XR3 cars. 
    
    'nuff said?
    
    
    

    re-1
    
    OK maybe I should not have put the XR4x4 in with the XR2/XR3.  They
    seem to have taken up where the Capri left off.
    
    Grant

>>    Unless you want me to come over and sit on you....:-)

a girl once said something similar to this to me... 


...but i think that conference has been banned, (if it ever existed)


...art			;^&)

>> a girl once said something similar to this to me...

Only once?  Never mind, I'm sure another one will some day...

    re .27
    
    I couldn't have put it better myself!

    Sorry to be a pain guys...
    
    but what has this got to do with a smokey rs exhaust..??
    
    yours
    
    not a mod

    
    Yeh,if your gonna talk about XR3`s try conference NANCY::HAIR_DRESSERS.
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    Sorry Gedo,couldn`t resist it 8*) 8*).....

    Doug,
    	If you cast your peanut-size brain back 4 yrs it'll probably bring
    back memories of a mad 21yr old in a 'B' reg XR3i.  
    Ring any bell's ???????
    
    Anyway , why are you reading NANCY::HAIR_DRESSERS ?? If your hairline
    continues diminishing at it's present rate you'll automatically become
    a member of the SAVALAS::CHROME_DOME conference. :^)))

       	     Maybe this topic should be renamed Peugeot v Ford. 

       As someone who has simultaneously owned a 205 *and* an Escort, I
       feel almost obliged to add a contribution to this debate.

       As .27 said, the 205 is a very dynamic car to drive. It has plenty
       of 'feel', is lively and is what a car of its class should be,
       great fun to drive.

       When I bought the Escort, I expected it to take a little time to
       get used to (the only previous Ford I had driven was the Cargo 0811
       7� tonne truck). I was wrong. I felt very much at home with the
       feel and drivability of the car. It was exactly the same as the
       Cargo 0811 7� tonne truck!

       The responsiveness of the Peugeot is the best I've ever
       encountered in a car. You can place the car on the road with the
       lightest of pedal pressures and the smallest steering wheel
       movement. The Ford requires massive amounts of driver effort that
       leaves you wrestling with the controls as if you were driving a
       1930 Bentley at Le Mans.

       The Ford may (or may not) be able to reach high speeds a fraction
       of a second faster than the 205, but driving should be fun. Fords
       are about as much fun as wet weekend at Butlins.

       Ian. (Ex Escort owner).

    
    I think 205 owners should stop going on about their *small* car's
    ability to hold the road and spend a couple of seconds looking at their
    interior trim, dash layout, etc. Lets face it chaps, it's about as
    exciting as something which is not very exciting at all !!! And as for
    the go-faster red carpet.........
    I went for a look/drive of one when I last changed my car and was
    bitterly dissapointed in the car which I found slow, noisey, cramped and
    pretty crap overall. 
    
    But that's just my opinion  8*)

>> I think 205 owners should stop going on about their *small* car's

205 owners of what ??

Mark.

205 owners!  I didn't know Peugeot had sold that many...

I haven't been in many 205s, or very far in them, but for what it's worth...

Headroom: isn't any
Legroom:  see headroom
Trim:     some of it's excellent, some of it's cheap plastic which is a shame
Styling:  not entirely my personal taste, but very nice nevertheless
          I think the wheels look too big for the rest of the car, though.
Engine:   seems to do the business
Price:    too high really for what is essentially a *very small* car

But don't knock it too much, at least the French are trying and we shouldn't
discourage them.  After all, it's better than a Citroen AX...

As for Fords...

Headroom: OK
Legroom:  OK
Trim:     isn't any (well none that I like)
Styling:  fine, as long as you don't mind people thinking you're a prat
Engine:   I hear they fit one now as standard.  Can't comment on the GFS version
          though
Price:    Low end models well priced.  Top end ones not too bad

Don't knock it too much, it might fall to bits...

And as I own a metro I may as well add:

Headroom: Surprisingly good
Legroom:  Well maybe there will be some in the new metros, but it isn't
          uncomfortable
Trim:     Mine seems to look grubbier every time I clean it
Styling:  Practical rather than pretty
Engine:   OK, I confess, the car's really a mini in disguise.
Price:    New: not as competitive as it could be (ie a Lada is cheaper)
          S/hand: dirt cheap ('cos there's so many of them around)

I would mention accleration, but I've never owned a car that has any of this so
I'm not sure what to put.

Scott

    
    Well for what it's worth...
    
    My exhaust still smokes, but there is no depreciation in performance. 
    Even on the odd occasion that I have had to use second gear, to pull
    away from the PUG brigade, the car is fine.  But I suppose that is
    not a fair comparison,  as Reliant Robins have the same power band as a
    PUG and infinately better handling characteristics.
    
    I suspect that oil maybe setteling on the Turbo then burning off when I
    start up.  Maybe the Turbo will prove me right by seizing up.  Thereby
    leaving me almost as low on power as the unfortunate PUG owner(s)  Yes
    it's true somebody else has bought one.
    
    RE' the chap with "large van"  I agree that most large vans are capable
    of out performing the PUG 205 Lucozade injection, even with all that
    lightweight plastic trim, and seats designed by the manufacturers of
    After Eight Mints.
    
    
    Have A Nice Day.
    
    
    Bruce..

    re .-2
    
    How tall are you????
    
    I'm 6'3" and had no problems at all in a 205 GTi I had a while back
    - mind you I did have to move the seat back as far as it would go.
    The seats are amongst the most comfortable I've sat in.
    
    Nigel

I'm 6'2", and had to sit with my head at an angle.
But then I prefer having the seat back upright rather than reclined, which
could make a difference.
Scott

re .42
>>   Maybe the Turbo will prove me right by seizing up.  Thereby
>>   leaving me almost as low on power as the unfortunate PUG owner(s)
    
     RS (turbo?) 132 BHP
     PUG 1.9 GTi 130 BHP
    
    2 BHP isn't a lot more, especially when you consider the car is
    bigger/heavier and all the RS fitments, Furry dice, designer hair spray
    holder, tow rope. 

    re-1
    
    And it take a Turbocharger to get the 132bhp for a tired old 1.6
    Litre.
    
    Grant

    Standard RS Turbo 132 BHP
    
    Not So Standard RS Turbo 192 BHP

    Bruce,
    
    What have you had done to yours then to squeese an extra 50 bhp out?

    re : 47
    
    Not so sure this is suitably fair.
    
    Non standard rs turbo   190bhp
    Non standard 16v 1.9pug ???bhp. (Seen one, seen one !)
    
    Prefered the RS though.

    Then of course theres the Turbo Tecnics (I think) Pug....
    
    Nigel

Hey this is great,

When we are all having our childish "my cars nicer than your car", we can
resort to non standard models.

Consequently, as the Metro 6R4 is faster than all special editions of
205 Git's RS-Turbos, and R5 GTT's then it must be better.

Mark.

    Yea but the Ford rs200's are faster.
    
    Shame i haven't got one ;-)
    
    BTW if you were a *real* speed demon/nutter then you wouldn't have
    a car, you have a turbo nutter 0-100mph in 3secs motorbike with
    go faster stripes........

    >>BTW if you were a *real* speed demon/nutter then you wouldn't have
    >>a car, you have a turbo nutter 0-100mph in 3secs motorbike with
    >>go faster stripes........
 
    I agree, thats why when he lets me I borrow my brother's Kawasaki 
    ZZR 1100 with go even faster blue stripes and a furry seat cover!
    
    Fastest production *anything* in the world!
    

>>            <<< Note 1050.53 by WOTVAX::HARRISC "Just the facts" >>>
>>                          -< REAL speed nutter.  DUH >-
    
>>    Fastest production *anything* in the world!
    
Beats Concord at mach 2 does it?.
    
    Richard
    

    Ahem, on land that is.

    Well folks....
    
    The car has just retured from a few days in the Garage..
    
    Here is the answer to the smokey exhaust.
    
    Replace all the valve seals,  this has cured the problem however the
    Garage also showed me exhaust which was squashed at the front end, they
    felt that this probably did not help the problem.
    
    Full marks to Haynes of Maidstone, their attitude is first class.  They
    talk to you !!! They listen !!! they will let you take them out in the
    car to demonstrate your problem.  THEY FIX THE PROBLEM.
    
    They also fix things that have irritated but not caused you to
    complain.
    
    They keep the dud bits and show you what was going wrong.
    
    They have a specialist RS Dep't...
    
    I wrote to them and thanked them for their service.
    
    They wrote back thanking me ...
    
    Use them if you are in that area it's worth it..
    
    
    Regards
    
    Bruce
    

    Ok, now wait .....
    
    I had my seals replaced to cure the smoking business, and about 4-6
    weeks later its smoking again, and I have used 1.5 litres of oil since
    the last service (about 3500 miles ago). No visible signs of leaks ..
    
    As the car is due to be replaced , I am not over concerned right now.
    
    Whatch your dipstick !!
    
    John B.

    What an amusing 4 year old topic. I just had to read it!
    
    Kids, eh?!
    ;-]
    Dan

    I remember something similar at school only then it was computers:
    
    C64 vs Spectrum vs BBC vs Dragon etc
    
    Rory.

    Shall we try and start them off again? :-)
    
    FORD CAN'T MAKE PERFORMANCE CARS FOR TOFFEE.
    
    <waits.......>

THEY OUT-PERFORM GTMs WITHOUT BREAKING INTO A SWEAT.







there.

    Pfaaa.