Conference terri::cars_uk

    
    I've been 'volunteered' to take my sister and her two children to the 
    seaside for a few days in June. Does anyone have any suitable child
    seats I could borrow/hire? or are there shops which offer this service? 
    Or would the car need to have special mounting brackets fixed?
    What about the 'generation belts' mentioned in previous notes, I've
    never seen them anywhere (but then I havn't been looking), pehaps I
    should buy these.  Any suggestions?
    
    The children are aged 3 and 5.
    
    thanks
    
    Elaine

The Argos catalogue has a section showing which sort of child seat / belt is
best for which age child, and would be worth a look to help you decide what to
get, even if you don't buy it from there.

I've mentioned this elsewhere, but Kwik-Fit (the exhaust place) will sell you a
child seat, and buy it back from you when you've finished with it.  I don't know
whether they'll do short term hire though.

The "generation belt" is an inertia reel belt with an adjustable shoulder-height
mounting.

All (I think) child seats / belts fit onto ordinary rear seat belt mountings, or
onto some standard part of the car.  You shouldn't need to get the oxy-acetylene
out (unless the kids start being a bit too noisy...)

Scott

PS The note title was actually on a plastic bag (or something similar, I can't
remember)

    
    Many tool-reantl places also doo short hire of Child seats, but
    your car has to have the right number of holes in the floor for
    'em!                                           
    
    The generation belt is a converter that lets you use your normal
    (rear-seat) belts, but slip the shoulder strap down to the right
    height for tinies......   try Halfords, B&Q and the like.
    
    Ian

    A 3 yr old probably needs a car seat (Britax etc). These can either
    have their own straps, or they can use the normal rear seat belts.
    
    A 5 yr old probably nees a 'booster' seat. These are just like a
    recarro sports seat for a child that sits on top of your current
    seats, and uses the normal rear seat belts.
    
    Hire from a tool hire, or may be from a baby or child shop?

    
    This is the reply I received in the Reading conference, if anyone else
    is interested. I've booked two seats from Bumps to Bundles, at a cost
    of �8 per seat per week.
    
    
            <<< RDGENG::DISK$USER05:[NOTES$LIBRARY]READING.NOTE;2 >>>
                           -< Reading 'bout Reading >-
================================================================================
Note 713.1                     Child car seat hire                        1 of 2
MAJORS::RUMBELOW "Three twoderful five words"        10 lines   1-JUN-1990 08:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    You have a choice:
    
    Kiddi Rent - Reading 883612, Wokingham 781463
    ABC - Reading 428024
    Penguin Nursery Hire - Wokingham 780784
    Bumps to Bundles - Reading 755641
    
    Hope you have a nice trip!
    
    - Janet 
    

Did anyone see last weeks "watchdog" on these seets?  I missed the program but
want to understand exactly what they meant by "the anchor points in estates and
hatchbacks are now put in the wrong place".

Any comments?

Jc

    
    The gist of it was that in some cars, the anchor points of tha adult
    seatbelts, which are used for some types of child seats, alow the seat
    to twist. The major problems with the random sample of seats they
    looked at in a car park, was that they were not held in tight enough,
    and the kids themselves were not strapped in tightly. The advisor was
    able to get his fist in between the child and the belt. 
    
    If you can get hold of the child seat, and twist it - then the force of
    impact will be able to do that too - same as if you can lift the harness
    away from the childs body, then the child has that far to be
    accelereted forward before they are restrained. And make sure the
    crotch strap is always used - so they can't slide out under the belt.
    
    My opinions - don't be afraid of tightening up these belts (within
    reason of course :-) ) - I much prefer this type of belt in a car, it
    is far more comfortable than the traditional three point seat belt, and
    can be done up quite tightly without causing discomfort. - if anything
    they make the ride more comfortable because you are not thrown/bounced
    around so much. 

My opinion, from seeing several reports on the subject, is not to use child
seats that are held in solely by the existing seat belt, because these belts may
not be in the right position.

Get a child seat with fixed straps that you bolt directly to the seat belt
anchorages.  This should give a better fixing regardless of where the anchorage
points are.

If really necessary, drill new anchorage holes in a suitable place and weld
six inch square plates of 10G steel around them to provide suitable anchorage
points...

Scott

... or get one of the New Volvo 900s that have an *integral* child seat.

:-)

/. Ian .\

	Seperate fastenings for the kiddy seat often use the lower two fixing
	points of the adult seat belt.  I prefer that to slipping an 
	adult seat belt through the frame as you can get the seat more firmly
	anchored.  Some seats (like mine) allow either anchoring and claim that
	both ways adhere to the same safety standard, however standards have
	been recently (within the last year) been improved, so that may not
	still be the case.

	As for the Volvo:

	(1) I have my pride...
	(2) Guess which market they're aiming for?
	(3) What if you have more than one child under 5?

	Dave

    
    The other problem is if you only have children in the car occasionally,
    and therefor only hire or borrow equipment, the only sort which you can
    fit quickly are the sort which use the adult belts. 

    The other problem that I have is when I go around a corner....
    
    Go around quickly, the inertia reel locks up, and the childs seat
    doesn't move...
    
    Go around slowly, and I glance back after the corner, and see the
    child still in the car seat, laughing their heads off, with the seat
    lying on its side...
    
    Is there any way of switching an inertia seat to a non-inertia, fixed
    one, once the seat is in place??
    
    
    The Carlton used to have a central lap strap - I could get that
    tight, and hold the car seat firm... the new Calibra doesn't... 

    Re .15 - child seat tips over when cornering
    
    I have had this happen too.
    
    A possible solution is to use different 'routing' for seat
    belt through the seat frame. This is what I do and it appears
    to work satisfactorily.  In fact, I think it works better than
    the 'standard' method intended by seat manufacturers.
    
    What I do, at the 'fixed end' of the seat belt, is to wrap
    the belt around the base of the seat frame, before passing it across
    to the other side of the base, where it meets up with the seat belt
    catch.  In doing this, I ensure that the belt is not twisted or
    snagged - so avoiding potential stresses.
    
    This has the desired effect of preventing the seat from moving around.
    It also avoids too much movement as the inertia reel is put into
    action should an accident occur...
    
    I don't know if this explanation is clear enough, but there you are.
    
    J.R.

    Thanks, I will try that

I'm not sure if you have them in the UK, but quite a few makers in the US have
interia belts that lock if you pull them all the way out.  They are designed
for children.  Once you pull the belts all the way out they click as it
tightens back up and you cannot pull it back out until you release the catch
and recoil the belt all way.  That feature comes in real handy when strapping
in the car seats.

Dave

    RE .14
    
    I have Storchem�hle child seat and this is fit with belts delivered
    with the seat anchored on the normal drivebelt fixing points.
    There is however a possibility to order extra sets of belts, so you
    can change the seat from one car to another very easily. (1 minut)
    We use this solution for moving the seat between my wife's car and
    mine.
    
    No problems with moving seat whatsoever: High quality!
    
    Hans 

    Re few back - my lad also loves it when his seat sways as I go gently
    around corners.  However, I'm thinking to anchor his seat better.
    
    One of our cars is an estate vehicle with securing rings in the luggage
    space behind the child seat.
    
    Is there a safety reason why I shouldn't use luggage straps to anchor
    the top of the child seat into position (while retaining the seat belt
    fixing) ?
    
    Greg.        

    
    No Calibra driver should be going around corners slowly! :^)
    
    Mark

    
    
    Hello there...
    
    Can anyone advise as to what stage 2/stage 2+3 baby car-seat fits best
    into the Calibra.
    
    I have the SE3 Calibra (normal seats) and an 8 month old son. I want
    that the baby seat should fix tightly and securly onto/into the back
    seat(s) of the car.
    
    Thanks for any suggestions
    
    
    Chris D.
    
    

    Hi,
    
    I've got the SE3 as well with 4 and 3 year olds. I use a Kangol baby
    seat (I can't remember the exact model). However I find that they do
    tend to tip slightly to the side when I take sharp corners, However
    there is no forward movement so I hope they are up to the job.
    Unfortunately, I don't think the Calibra is the easiest of cars to
    securely fit baby seats into, due to the seatbelt anchor points. My 4
    year old now uses a booster seat which fits in great and uses the
    normal adult seat belt. Give me a bell if you want any more info.
    
    Regards
    
    Eric

With modern 'shaped' car seats it's important to buy a baby seat with a large
firm base. When fitting into a car with standard belts, adjust the belt by
putting your knee with weight behind it into the seat, then tighten the belt.
This will force the baby seat belt firmly into the car seat and stop sideways
roll. Always check seats regularly as they can work loose with usage or can be
accidently released by other pasengers.

Dave.

    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    Eric I'll try the Kangol one when I can. i did try a Brittax Cruiser
    and a Brittax Cruiser Deluxe, but they just slipped around too much.
    
    
    I you can remember the model and how you fixed it in, I would
    appreciate the info.
    
    
    Thanks
    
    Chris D.