Conference terri::cars_uk

    Rather than start a new topic I thought I'd pose my question here ...
    
    What car do I want ?
    
    I know this sounds stupid but Peter and I seem to have had more cars
    that hot dinners lately and we've spoilt ourselves more than once - we
    now have the dubious task of choosing our next car with the imposition
    of certain restrictions (not something that's ever bothered us before)
    
    We chose our 'next car' last time for most of the wrong reasons and
    ended up with an Audi Coupe that goes ok but neither of us like :-(
    
    So .... given the restrictions/requirements listed below - What would
    YOU buy ????
    
    These are sort of in order of importance and the later ones are 'nice
    to have but not essential'
    
    	1) Price no more than #8,000 ideally around #6000
    
    	2) Not too wide - we have a narrow drive and even the 323 is
    	   difficult to get in and out
    
    	3) Suitable for carrying new baby (due July) and dog - baby at
    	   first in carry-cot then car seat with room for buggy 
    
    	4) Sporty feel to drive - we're both used to cars with 'oompf' -
    	   possible 4WD as we like the safe feel of the 323 4X4
    
    	5) Not too big feeling - I'm used to small hatches and don't like
    	   cars that feel like tanks
    
    	6) Reliable to a certain degree - eg not something that needs
    	   'fixing' every weekend
    
    	6) A convertible would be wonderful !!
    
    	7) Comfortable sporty seats as we both get backache from naff seats
    
    Not worried about fuel economy or maintainence as these have never
    really bothered us in the past ..
    
    
    Thoughts ????
    
    Jane and bump

    
    Surely a convertible and a dog are incompatible? A dog can't be
    properly restrained in an open top car and would be able to jump out
    and into the road at any time.
    
    More on the subject, if you want a car narrower than the 323 Mazda and
    with 4wd you seem to be stuck with a Fiat Panda, which may be worthy
    but won't be exciting! :^) What do you DISLIKE about the Audi (is it
    TOO efficient and teutonic?) and what is wrong with the 323 (small,
    hatchback, 4WD, etc...)?
    
    On first analysis, what about a Fiat Uno Turbo? Nice and cheap
    secondhand (even < 1 year), with good performance and a lot roomier
    than most of it's competitors.
    
    Mark

	Hello Beagle,

	As I remember it from when Peter was at Newbury, you had a
	Porshe 924, Peter had a TVR V8, replaced by an RX7 turbo
	convertible, and with an MX5 on the way. What's happened
	since, it all seems to have changed and it's only what
	9 months ago?.

	-John

	>>Porshe 924, 
    	Had to go as the insurance was toooo expensive after I rammed it
        into ...
    
       >> a TVR V8, replaced by an RX7 turbo convertible, 
        TVR went for the more reliable RX7 
    
       >> MX5 on the way. 
	last minute change of heart when we coudln't raise the cash :-(
    	We'd expected money from a house sale that didn't happen in time
    	... I'm still pining after the MX5 though ...
    	RX7 got swapped for the 323 4X4 which is a lot less dosh when we
    	decided to save to buy a new house .....
    
       >>it all seems to have changed and it's only what 9 months ago?.
    	yep a lot changes round here ... the Audi Coupe arrived as a
    'sensible' car when we found out the patter of tiny beagles were going
    to be upon us :-( ... this was not really planned for and the Audi was
    a hasty decision after seeing the insurance renewal for the Porche :-(
    
    re -2 .... The Audi is/feels too big and lumbering - the ride isn't hard
    enough for our tastes and it's only a 2-door so awkward to get
    baby/carry-cot in and out ....it's a C reg so not one of the newer
    ones.
    
    The convertible and dog do go together .... a) you can buy dog harness
    like a seat-belt to stop dog jumping out
    b) you can leave the dog at home the days you put the roof down :-)
    
    A fiat Uno Turbo ??? wow !! is there really enough room for baby and
    dog ?? Do they really go fast ... can you get soft-top conversions ???
    
    She who STILL wants an MX5 but can't find a baby-seat with all-weather
    protection to fit on the rear luggage rack :-) :-)

    Oops forgot .... there's nothing wrong with the 323 that removing it's
    rear spoiler won't fix ... I love the 323 dearly and wouldn't like to
    see it go, but having tried to fit the carry-cot bit of the pram onto
    the back seat and then place the wheels in the boot in our narrow drive
    ... well you really needed to be a contortionist. And after all that
    there was no room for the dog and the pram wheels in the hatch/boot.
    
    The dog part really is a nice to have though as we don't drive him
    around too much ... it's for those days when you have to take the dog
    to the vet and can't get anyone to baby-sit ....
    
    The ideal solution is to move house to one with a wider drive and buy a
    big yankee convertible - vvrrooommmm --- oops back to reality :-(
    
    keep those suggestions coming
    
    Fatty Beagle
    

 Make the drive bigger !?!?!?!

		 Alan
		~~~~~~

    Nice thought .... do we knock the drive into our living room to get the
    extra space or ask the lady next door if she minds us moving her
    bungalow a few feet to the right :-) :-) :-)
    
    ..... we could always get a kit cat and stretch the frame to make a
    single seater wide car that is four seats deep ....
    
    			^^^^^^^^^^^
    			| driver  |
    		      	O p'ssger O
    			| baby    |
    		        O dog     O
    			| engine  |
    			vvvvvvvvvv	
    
    wow ... we could stuff a huge V8 engine in it and have a soft-top and
    everything !!! 
    
    Sorry I can't take this seriously - I'm having diificulty copinbg with
    the idea of the baby let alone it needing space etc etc etc ...
    
    Why is being a 'family' so dull ?????
    
    woof

    We managed fine with a Baby in a Pug 205 1.9.  Should get a good 'un
    for 8,000 quid.  It's not too wide, but the longish doors may be a prob
    in your narrow drive.  The CTi isnt as quick, but it is a convertible
    and suffers from a lot less scuttle shake than other open topped hot
    hatches.
    
    
    John

    What about the Mercury Capri.  It is made in Australia, is based on the
    old Mazda 323, comes turbo charged (faster to 100km than the MX5), 
    has a back seat, is a convertable, and should be as reliable as your 
    323 4X4.  It is also narrower than the MX5 but it is set up with 
    softer springs.  I am not sure if it is available over in the UK, 
    but if it is it should be cheaper than the Miata.  And since it uses
    the older 323 1.6L engine it should be identical to work on as your 323
    4X4 is.
    
    Regards,
    JP

    
    How about a...
    
    	Daihatsu Charade Gti
    	Suzuki Swift GTi
    	Lancia Y10 Gti
    	Ford Fiesta something 
    	New just announced Mazda 121 (revue) - 1.3 16v automatic with
    	cat. ACRES of headroom, boot room - about 8,400. They've got
    one in Newbury Mazda - weird car
    	Nissan Micra thingy
        Pug thingy
        Renault Clio
    	etc.etc.
    
    Rich
    

First of all, congratulations on the impending arrival  of a little one.

Right, the vehicle you want is a V8, Light weight, AP (Air Portable) Short
wheelbase, soft top Landrover.

Loads of room, doesn't really matter if you scrape the sides when driving
into a narrow driveway. Holds the road well, has four wheel drive. I know it
is almost a tank but what fun. These things can do 110 when 'delt with' 
properly.

You can pick up a very good one for about �4K.


Simon - who drives a Long wheel base ex SEB V8 'half' safari, which does 80 MPH
	down hill with the wind behind me.

    
    Mazda 121 ?!?!?
    
    And she scoffed at an Uno Turbo! :^)
    
    What about a Skoda Rapide (Advertising standards people aren't reading
    this are they?) Convertible? Narrow, roomyish, handles like a Porsche 
    (That must have REALLY hurt Porsche sales!) although it couldn't pull
    a sailor off your sister! (Something that I'd imagine would require
    lots of power from the sailors I know! :^)).
    
    The trouble is Beagle (or can I call you Jane?) that you really want
    the impossible car. Tiny and nimble with the acceleration of Thrust 2 
    and with the seating capacity of a 75 seater coach, and free with 3
    tins of baby food! :^)
    
    It won't be all bad having a bab. Just think, you can have a 'Baby on
    Board' sticker! :^)
    
    Mark

    The V8 landy would suit Peter a treat ... he keeps talking about
    getting involved in the all-wheel-drive club ...don't think it would be
    too easy to get a baby in and out though :-)
    
    This Mercury Capri sounds great ... can you internal mail me any
    details you might have that I can take to our local dealer ... perhaps
    they will arrive in the UK later under a new name ???
    
    The Mazda 121 I've seen .... no thanks !! They look really odd and an
    automatic is not my idea of fun ...
    
    205 CTI ... good thought ... are they really easy enough to get a baby
    in and out of ??? We had a 1.6 205 a while ago and I can't remember how
    much space there is in the back... hmmm
    
    Peter talks wobbling on about a Frod Siesta XR4i or 4X4 .. I heard that
    the Mazda 626 4X4 lost performance for the addition of 4WD - does the
    Sierra suffer the same problems ... would a slug like this meet our
    needs ?....
    
    Woof

   >> It won't be all bad having a bab. Just think, you can have a 'Baby on
   >> Board' sticker! :^)
    
    WHAT !!!! I wouldn't be seen DEAD with one of those things !!!!! Excuse
    me while I just throw up in this bag and no I do not have morning
    sickness !!!!
    
    'Brat on board' ... maybe ... :-) :-) :-)
    
    FWIW yes I realise I want the impossible ... but as we used to say at
    the CSC - 'the impossible we can do - miracles take a little longer'
    
    I'm just looking for the same dedication in a car dealer :-)
    
    The Fiat Uno Turbo was not scoffed ... I just never though of it before
    .... I keep thinking about a 2CV and replacing the engine with
    something a bit bigger/wider wheels etc etc - nah you'd end up having
    to replace the whole car  :-)
    
    
    Ho hum ... looks like the neighbours bungalow is going to have to go
    .,...
    
    :-)
    Fatty Beagle
    

    Re: the Capri.  Unfortunately they are not up here in Canada yet so
    there is no information.  However many of the mags, Car And Driver,
    Moter Trend, and Road and Track are just brimming with info.  They
    usually compare it directly to the MX5.  If you can get any of these
    magazines you will get all the info you need.  The latest C&D, MT, R&T
    has an annual out that features the Capri along side the MX5.  If you
    don't get any of these mags, let me know and I'll see about getting a
    past copy off to you.  
    
    PS:  It looks sort of like the old concept Ford Barchetta from a few
    years back.
    
    JP 

    I don't recall seeing any of these mags in UK bookstores, but then it's
    Peter not me that spends years browsing through car mags !!
    
    If you could photocopy an article with the relevant info and shove it
    in the infernal mail to JANE TALBOYS @ SBP S10.2  (England) that would
    be very much appreciated ....
    
    Cheers
    
    Jane 
    aka Fatty Beagle

what about a Lancia Integrale (or the older version without the flared arches)
they're pretty narrow, 4wd, pretty quick, 5doors, turbo-charged etc etc


re.24
>>205 CTI ... good thought ... are they really easy enough to get a baby
>>    in and out of ??? 

should be real easy - just put the top down & pick the baby up - less backstrain
than bending over seats etc!



...art

    
    Shouldn't be any problem getting a baby in and out of a SWB soft top 
    Landy, especially ex-mod - there are metal 'loops' in the floor, all
    you need are a few of those stretchy luggage cords to tie 'it' down,
    :-)  
    
    (And as far as going 'off road' is concerned, I have it on good
    authority that babies sleep better surrounded by noise, and being shaken
    up and down, than when it is quiet and comfortable and you _want_ them 
    to sleep!)                          
                                        

         <<< Note 588.24 by SBPUS4::BEAGLE "Where Beagle's Dare ..." >>>
                      -< keep those ideas rolling folks >-

>    205 CTI ... good thought ... are they really easy enough to get a baby
>    in and out of ??? We had a 1.6 205 a while ago and I can't remember how
>    much space there is in the back... hmmm
    
I had a 205 4 door to bring our little one home from the
hospital (and for several months after that)... loads of
room for baby in the back

    I'll take alook at home and get a copy off to you.
    
    JP
    

    How about a Pug 309 GTi, plenty of room in the back for baby and a
    large hatch for the dog!
    
    Handling and performance, as per 205 1.9 GTi...
    
    ..Craig

�    A fiat Uno Turbo ??? wow !! is there really enough room for baby and
�    dog ?? Do they really go fast ... can you get soft-top conversions ???
    
    There is a company in Bagshot (Camberley) that claim to do soft-top
    conversions on 'almost any' make of car.  I considered them once, but
    when they sent photo's of their conversion I went off the idea.
    What they do is more like those large sunroofs, just a bit bigger still.
    You may find that 'satisfactory' - perhaps on whatever car you choose.
    
    (BTW - I was considering getting the Manta 'chopped' - not the Delta).
    
    
    I also vote for the Lancia (Re. ATWAL) - that's what I've got.
    
    I have the integrale which includes arches that increase the width by
    a few inches, but the predecessor was the HF 4WD.  This had 4WD/Turbo,
    but without the arches.  It puts out 165bhp as standard, compared to
    185 for the integrale and 200 for the 16v version.
    
    Of course, these are likely to be a bit wider than the Mazda,
    but then again - so would the Dorf models you mentioned.
    
    Another problem with the integrale (or any 4WD Delta) is that the boot
    space is quite restricted.  I find that I can just fit a 'buggy' in
    there (the collapsible sort).  For a pushchair, I need to fold down
    one of the (50/50 split) rear seats.  For a carrycot, you would not
    be able to do this, but you could put the wheels/frame on the floor
    in front of the rear seat cushion.
    
    J.R.

    Jane,
    
    I found the article comparing the MX5 and the Capri and a photocopy is
    now on its way to the UK.
    
    It's a pretty sad state when a magazine you buy makes it to England
    before you do.    ;-(
    
    JP

    Tow the pram, tie dog lead to bumper placing skateboard under dog. Then
    get a fun two seater.
    
    |~}
    
    Steve (Getting demob-happy)

    
    How 'bout a nice 16v Renault Clio, goes like S*^t of a shovel and 
    is small and practicle. (Whoops, just remebered you brits wont have
    it for some time,,,,shame !!)
    
    Mark.

    Re: �16v Renault Clio... wont have it for some time
    
    Last I heard the 16v version of the Clio will be available here in
    September.
    
    - Roy

Yup, Peugeot 309 GTI - also available in 5 door. I find the 309 better a handling
car than the 205, it is less 'nervous' on the limit - probaly the longer 
wheelbase...

    Thanks to Mr Jeremy Eight-Foot Tall and full of Jokes whassisface on
    Top Gear last night Peter has decided _exactly_ what we're having ...
    
    There is no choice - it fits 'most' of the requirements ...
    
    
    
    
    Does anyone have a soft-top Range Rover for sale ....
    
    ho hum ... just drive over next door's bungalow !!
    
    Fatty Beagle

    
    If you're serious about the Range Rover, my brother's selling one,
    complete with full sun roof, V8, properly maintained.......
    
    and within the price range you quoted! 

    Out of vague interest tell us more about this rangy .... it's not quite
    the soft-top we wanted but ....
    
    We've almost decided to go mad and knock down part of the front garden  
    wall and lose some border/grass to get an extra few feet at the very
    front end of the drive ... this would give enough room to load/unload
    child with relative ease out of most vehicles.... 
    This is similar to our "We want a dishwasher but there's no room for it
    in the kitchen so we'll knock down our kitchen wall" approach to
    DIY/House stuff :-) :-)
    
    
    

    
    re - the Rangy, I'll have a word with my brother and get the details for
    you!  (I think I posted it in the 'for sale' note somewhere, but I'm
    not sure when! - it was before Christmas, when petrol prices were going
    up, so by brother didn't manage to sell it then, and decided to keep it
    until the spring, when he thought more people would be looking for a 
    'proper' vehicle :-)   )
    
    Elaine 

    
    Jane,
    
    The Vauxhall Nova GTEi would fit your requirments, the engine does have 
    some "oomph" but at 1600, does it have as much "oomph" as you would 
    like.
    
    It is a hatchback, has 2/3 1/3 split rear seat, the front seats tip 
    quite far forward, so that you could get a baby seat in there....
    
    It's main "+" as far as I am concerned is that is is narrow...it gets 
    into my driveway which (I think) was built with a bicycle in mind !
    
    If you want to "test drive" mine, I'm back in two weeks...if you want 
    to try one out sooner, Dave Otten (2675) has one the same as mine...
    
    :-)

    Hah .... we solved the narrow drive problem this weekend - with a
    little help from the 323 4X4 we pulled a whacking great fir tree out of
    our front garden and cleared a space a the front of the house to pull
    into. It was good fun 'off-roading' the 4X4 over an ex-flower border
    and onto the lawn in front of our bay window :-)
    
    There is enough room there to open both doors fully and once it is
    tarmaced over or paved or summat squelching across the mud won't be a
    bind !!
    
    The house looked really odd on Sunday night as we put the Audi away in
    the garage and the Mazda on this grass ... this left a completely empty
    35ft of drive to the side of the house and people to wonder why the
    hell we'd parked on our front lawn with all that spare drive !!!
    
    The Audi might go for a Astra convertible (one of the few rag-tops with
    a big enough boot space), but I've decided to keep the Mazda as the
    day-to-day baby/dog moving car - after all it was the hero of the day
    when it pulled the tree out :-) :-)
    
    
    Ho hum .... the Talboys crack a nut with a sledgehammer yet again !!
    
    Jane

Shouldn't that read:

	day-to-day baby/dog/tree moving car 

Sounds as though you now have enough room for a FC101 landrover.

Simon