Conference terri::cars_uk

    HI All,
           I've just got the use of a Fiat Uno SX - to replace my poor
    burnt out Fiesta for a while.  Is there anyone else out there who has
    problems with the gearbox?  Getting it into first gear seems to require
    a subtle blend of tact, cunning, and extreme violence! 
    
    Also, the drivers door mirror has one of those little mirrors stuck on
    it to cover the blind spot.  Is this standard?  If not, how do I get
    the %*&*#*%$g thing off?  It sseems well stuck on!
    
    One last thing - is there any way to alter the height of the seat?  My
    head hurts from the bumps!
    
    Mikef

    Why would you want to remove the blind spot mirror?  Especially if
    the car is only on loan ...
    
    Jeff.

    Because the blind spot mirror seems to cause more blind spots than it
    solves...
    
    Mikef

    I have just become the owner of a UNO 60S. First registered in January
    '88 (will I ever get away from winter MoT's?).
    
    This is probably the wrong time to be asking...... but are there any
    vices in this specific car that I should know about. Previous entries
    in this topic seem to be reasonably positive.
    
    I bought the Haynes manual which seems to be the most confusing one
    that I have ever come across, full of supplementary advice and comments
    and skipping between variants in different parts of the car on a
    seemingly ad-hoc basis. It is also full of pictures bearing the wildly
    useful caption "Spanner on nut XYZ" and "Mechanic pulling vacuum hose
    off carburettor" etc..... so, anybody have access to or know where a
    reasonable number of folding green one can get a better volume?

    Our 70S is now 6 years old and was bought 3-1/2 years ago.  Goes well
    but there are a couple of points to be aware of:
    
    1) Prone to oil leaks between cam-box/cylinder head and cylinder head
    block.  Not serious but can look messy.
    
    2) The ball joints in the front suspension wishbones can pack up and
    the suspension rattles - the Hayne's manual tells you how to check.
    
    Your's probably has all electronic ignition but, if not, leave yourself
    plenty of time to change the points - it's a real bear.
    
    Ref. Haynes manuals & confusion - agree!  I changed the timing belt a
    while ago and the manual caused more problems than it helped.
    
    The real question is - would we have another one? Yes!
    
    Give me a bell if you want more details.
    
    John,
    

My (OK, my wife's..) UNO 60S has just shown signs of an interesting little 
problem.... on my way out of the house this morning, I spotted a sinister 
puddle of oil under the front nearside....I checked  that she's not going to use
it today, so I just slipped a tray under there and left it for the weekend.

Now, about three months ago, the it did the same thing, and the local garage 
replaced a split C/V joint boot.   Could it be that the same part has failed
again, and if so, why ?

Anyone else had similar experiences ?   (Or know how easy/hard it is to replace,
since I don't really want to pay that much again !!!)

Ta !

Ian

    re .18
    
    A CV joint doesn't normally have oil in it. It is packed with grease,
    which may get thrown out while the car is moving if the boot is bad.
    It should be easy to inspect the boots.
    
    Is it still dripping out ? Can you tell if it is engine oil, gearbox
    oil, coolant or brake fluid ? Are any of the levels down ?
    
    Andrew

    
    
    It was gearbox oil, and the boot which had split was on the inboard end
    of the shaft, not the C/V (wheel) end.
    
    Following an interesting chat with the man at the local Fiat parts
    desk, and a few hours of scientifically-applied bad language, it's now
    all shiny and clean again....
    
    Out of the exercise came the following learnings, which I record here
    for the benefit of others who may pass this way...
    
    To replace either of the boots, you need to take the drive shaft right
    out.  To do that, you have to put the car up on stands, take the wheel
    off and remove the hub nut.  First hint.....ease the hub nut while
    the car is still on the ground.  It's torqued up to 200 ft-lbs, which
    equates to me standing on the end of a bit of hefty gas-pipe....much easier
    and safer to do this sort of grunt'n'groan while it's still on four
    wheels.  Second hint... buy a new hub-nut.  It's "staked" (= had a bit
    of the nut bashed into a slot on the shaft.), and you have to drift out
    the staking before you can get it to turn.  This tends to wreck the
    nut.
    
    Once the nut's off and the wheel's out of the way, a gentle tap will
    suffice to drive the shaft back out of the hub.  Honest.....
     
    From the man at the garage came the tip that it is _possible_ to get
    the half-shaft out without undoing the track-rod end joint, contrary to what
    it says in the manual.  If you really, genuinely can't get hold of a
    ball-joint splitter, you may want to attempt it.  If you shove the
    shaft as far back into the gearbox as you can, drop the hub off the
    bottom of the shock absorber and manage not to rip the brake hydraulics
    (take the hydralic pipe support clip off the back of the suspension
    strut, it gives you a lot more scope.).... you can _just_ do it......but 
    it only take 5 minutes to split the track-rod joint.....
    A bit of string is handy, at this point, to stop the hub dropping too
    far and ripping the brake line off anyway.
    
    Now you can undo the four bolts holding the inboard end of the shaft
    into the gearbox    Third hint.... if one of them comes out longer than
    the others, you've made the same mistake as me, and started to take the
    side off the transmission housing.  Put it back !  (It's dark in
    there...)
    
    The plate itself is stiff, due to there being an oil-seal in there.
    (You _did_ drain the gearbox, didn't you ?  Oh, never mind.....)
    Fourth hint....  Once the plate comes loose, the shaft is going to fall
    out, all oily and slippery.  Be ready to catch it, unless you enjoy
    picking bits of garage floor out of tiny bearings....
    
    To get the boots off, you have to remove one or other of the joints. 
    The inboard end is favourite, it's simpler. (One circlip and a few
    minutes' deft manipulation with a three-toed puller)  
    
    Then you whip the new bits on, put it all back together and stick the
    shaft back in.  All will be simple, if a little fiddly, until you get
    to doing up the track-rod ball-joint.  Once the two halves are apart,
    they can rotate freely, and that's just what they do when you do the
    nut up..... the bolt turns around, too..  Fifth hint...you know that
    three-toed puller you had a minute ago, and you've just given it back to
    the guy you borrowed it from ?  Well, you need it again.  Hook the feet
    of the puller under the bottom half of the ball-joint and screw the
    bolt down on the top.  Enough pressure, and the pin-bolt will stay still
    while you do the business.
    
    Lastly, not so much a hint as a dire warning....if you're trying to do
    this out of a Haynes manual, treat with some scepticism the advice it
    gives on the choice of gearbox oil.... it recommends 15w40 engine oil,
    which is awful thin for a gearbox !  "Proper" Fiat gearbox oil is
    80/90, and has the consistency of cold syrup....
    My friendly local garage man also advised me to use ZC90, not EP**.
    Seemingly, EP90 is not good for the bushes in the transmission.
    
    Final step.... take for a test-ride, (you _did_ stake the hub-nut back
    on, didn't you ?)  observe the clean-and-dry
    underside of your motor, and bask in the radiance of awe and
    admiration of your family and neighbours.. and the fact you haven't
    had to take a second mortgage to get it fixed.....
     

    So, could you just go through that again for us?
    
    Phil Gill.

    I just became the proud owner of a 1992 Uno 60S. Car bought for wife
    and kid, but could not resist taking it to work today.
    
    What I       like: (low) weight, turn-in, brakes
    What I don't like: gearchange, (noise)
    
    So far so good. 22000km on the clock. Looking forward

    I used to be the owner of an Uno 60s (C-reg, so it was about 86 i
    think).
    
    Excellent car. Light steering, Very economical, chic and unique (at the
    time) although there fairly common now. Infact it was my second Uno, I
    used to have an 84 55s before that. 
    
    One constant thing though was the rubbery gear change, but once you get
    used to it, its ok. 
    
    I was always impressed with just how much I could get into it too. Even
    got one of Ikea King Size double beds (including the two mattresses)
    in it.
    
    Moved onto something now with much less character and cheek but a tad
    quicker... :->
    
    /pc
    
    ps. sold it to my Aunt, so I still get to see it and have a drive now
    and then.

    You should have got a Selecta.
    
    They're faster away from the lights, as well.
    
    Richard
    

    .23�    One constant thing though was the rubbery gear change, but once you get
    .23�    used to it, its ok. 
    
    I know what you mean. The 92 version shows some improvement. The
    current version (just rented from Avis a few days ago) has a very good
    gearchange, problem solved.

    I've just bought my mums Fiat Uno Formula 45 of my dad, it had been
    standing in the garage for a couple of years but after paying 500 quid
    for the MOT and service and two days T-cutting and cleaning she looks
    quite nice - the car, not my mum!
    
    I drove her to Belgium last weekend and noticed that she dosn't
    accelerate at all well in third gear - although shes fairly smooth in
    fourth. Also, she runs quite hot (95-120�) - i'm convinced that she's
    pre-igniting due bad tuning, even the tapets need a good going over.
    
    So could anyone please provide me with the valve clearences, point gap,
    plug gap, ignition timings etc then i'd be an extreamly happy bunny.
    
    Ps I would buy a Haynes Manual but I can't get an english version in
    Belgium so i'd rather wait till I visit blighty again.
    
    Cheers then, Shaun.

    Oh, and another thing....is it possible to drop (ie with no engine bay
    modification) a 1300 Turbo engine straight into the Fiat Uno (G-Reg)
    Formula 950cc thingy in my drive. Or, alternatively, any other fiat
    engine for that matter?
    
    Shaun$probably_have_to_wait_ten_years_for_a_reply

re .27

Not safely, I shouldn't think, H'anus.  It's cheaper to go out and buy a turbo, 
second hand.  They're very cheap, 2nd hand.  I've been offered a straight swap 
between my E reg Golf (basic model) and an E/F (can't remember, it was a while 
back) Uno Turbo effort.  Hard to believe, but true.  

    If the turbo could be dropped straight in Matt then I could do a recon,
    lighten the crank, raise the barrel and skim the head etc....cont Pg 94.
    The only thing the car would need would be sport pads or disk brakes for
    the front (I intend to get the engine with cluth & GB).
    
    So if there's no chassis mod to do then its definately an option.
    
    Shaun$answers_now_please

    Shaun,
    
    The phrase "Is it really worth the effort?" springs easily to mind.
    
    Laurie.

    Making model aeroplanes isn't really worth the effort but some people
    find it fun. I happen to enjoy mucking about with cars. Secondly, my
    Fiat Uno has a certain emotional attachment and so i'd rather convert
    that than buy another.
    
    Shaun

    Shaun,
    
    I think the suspension setup needs uprating (ie anti-roll bars, shocks,
    etc), along with the fact that the Fiat Uno Turbo had ventilated front 
    disc brakes and solid rear discs, whereas a bog-standard UNO had rear 
    drums and solid front discs. Also, if you look under the bonnet of an 
    Uno Turbo, you'll find that there's sod all room and a need for 
    specialised tools.
    
    Personally, I wouldn't bother with the conversion. Why not settle for
    something simpler, like upgrading the carbs?
    
    Clive

    Clive,
    
    So whats your oppinion of transplanting a simple 1300 engine insteda ?
    
    Shaun

    A darn sight easier. If you slap a pair of Weber DCOEs(I think) on as
    well, you'll have quite a nifty gas-guzzler for not a lot of effort.
    
    Clive

    Yeah, you're right....I mean I could always add the Nitro-Oxide later!!
    
    Loz ? Can I borrow your tools ?
    
    oh and could someone please give me the tuning spec as requested in
    prev note.....I thank you!
    
    Shaun

    Ref .26
    
    Depends what engines its got.
    
    			903CC			999CC Fire
    
    Valve clearance
    		inlet	6thou			10-14thou
    		exhaust	8thou			14-18thou
    
    Points		15-17thou		15-17thou
    
    Plug gap		28-32thou		28-32thou
    
    Ignition timing	5deg BTDC		2deg BTDC
    (dynamic - vacuum advance disconnected and plugged*)
    
    Exhaust gas		0.5-1.5% CO		0.5-1.5% CO
    
* Both my sons have Pandas with the 999cc Fire engine and the vacuum
    advance modules were shot on both even though they'd just been serviced
    at (different) Fiat main dealers before purchase.  They run a lot
    better after these were fixed and the ignition timing set up correctly.
    
    Let me know if you need any more info.

    Go on then Shaun, give him a lecture about metrication! (He ripped into
    me because I said it was easier to work in whole numbers [1/1000ths]
    than decimal parts of a millimetre). Luckily for H'anus I have feeler
    gauges in both flavours.
    
    Loz$Imperial_for_me.

    My god, someone replied! Oh thankyou, oh thankyou....etc.
    
    Actually, I thought it was a 950cc but on the insurance policy it
    states that its a 903 so i'll use the 903 setup.
    
    You mention:-
    
    �Exhaust gas		0.5-1.5% CO
    
    Now, when I used to drive - 11 years ago - emmission tests were not
    part of MOT & Services unless requested. Today, I believe it is
    obligatory - IMO the only way to mess about with emmisions on a fiat uno is
    to mess about with the timing, could this be the reason why the car's
    running badly because she had an MOT/service a week ago ???
    
    
    Cheers, Shaun
    
    
    PS: Lozzer, as much as I prefer the metric system, I can work in Imperial
    as well - unlike yourself, due to age, senality, dementia and a sevear
    case of pedanticism. ....lucky you've got imperial feelers (kwok) all
    the same.
    
    

    It's also possible to control emissions by playing with the mixture,
    and if it's running weak, and it probably is, then that would help it
    overheat (as would having the ignition too advanced, which I think
    it is).
    
    Laurie.

    You're right of course - I should have used the word 'Tuning' instead
    of 'timing', which I thought I had done till I re-read my note. I'm in
    full agreement that the mixture is weak (I think the ignition timing is
    OK but i'll see you a pint on that point) - alas there is also a nice
    tappet mess to sort out as well.
    
    Shaun$looking_forward_to_saturday

    Ref .38
    
    You can twiddle the carburettor mixture screw a long way in or out
    without making any noticeable difference in how the engine runs but the
    emissions go out the window.  The spark plug colour will tell you if
    you're in the right ballpark *IF* everything else is right.  I bought
    one of those Gunson Gastester gadgets  a few years ago and it's paid
    for itself many times over in keeping our cars running right and
    passing MOT's.
    
    You mentioned that the car had just been serviced and MOT's.  One of my
    sons bought a Panda that was supposedly just serviced and MOT'd - the
    emissions were way outside the limit.  Draw your own conclusions.
    
    John

    Its true that you wouldn't notice much at tickover but you would during
    a test drive - quite a lot as well i'd imagine.
    
    As for services etc, i've never trusted garages - more so since I saw
    the Which report thingy where they hid cameras in the bonnets and
    filmed the whole service etc. Garages just tend to pretend they've done
    ABC etc and then charge you the earth for it.
    
    Shaun$rather_do_it_myself

    
    Does this run leaded or unleaded - overheating could also be an
    'octane' problem.
    
    Richard.

    According to Mr. Haynes the 903cc is ok on unleaded.  The engine series
    mentioned were 146A.000 and 146A.046.
    
    John

    I run unleaded - even if the polution claims are somewhat debateable!!
    
    Shaun
    
    

    Well Saturday was interesting. The Uno had just had an MOT and full
    service the week before yet the tuning of the car was atrocious.
    
      Of the four new spark-plugs, only one had the correct gap (although the
      others wern't far off).
    
      The 'tappets', or valve clearences were all over the shop - obviously
      nothing had been touched here.
    
      The rocker-box gasket had not been replaced - even though the garage
      had charged for a new one.
    
      The point gap was about twice/thrice the specified gap.
    
      The 'mecanics?' managed to split a not-too-important pipe from the
      exhaust manifold to the air-filter.
    
    
    Apart from that, the rest of the service was ok (though I havn't yet
    checked the brakes !!?!). Recently I saw a report on television where
    garages were being investigated to see how they serviced cars. Of the
    15 cars sent to different garages, only 7 had had a proper service. In
    many of the remaining 8 cases the owner was charged for items, such as
    rocker-box gaskets etc, but which had not been replaced. Two
    were so seriously flawed that they are now court cases. The
    investigative team used hidden cameras and ultra-violet coding to
    validate the service.
    
    My own experience in the past, coupled with the latest bolox, has made
    me more determined to never use a garage again. Their cowboy attitude
    will eventually kill their trade.
    
    On a final point, although the Uno now runs a lot better she still runs
    at just above 90� which I feel is a tad too hot.
    
    Shaun

    Ref. .46
    
    Sounds about right for the temperature compared with our 70S.  The fan
    cycles on/off more often than with other cars we've had but its never
    been a problem.
    
    I'd also change the brake fluid and anti-freeze on principle.  They usually
    don't get changed when they should (every two years).
    
    John
    

    You're right about the fan cycle! The brake fluid should be ok as they
    ahd to replace two brake pipes during the MOT. As for the anti-freeze,
    Loz recons I should flush out the radiator - the car had been standing
    for or one and a half years.
    
    Shaun

    John, could you tell me where the timing marks are located on the Uno
    motor. I can see a mark on the pully and a mark on the casing but have
    no idea whether these corrispond to TDC or the actual timing pt.
    
    I'm going to order the Haynes manual from WHSmith this saturday but
    it'll take a few weeks to arrive and I really would like to do time the
    thing before then.
    
    Cheers, Shaun 

    Shaun,
    
    I'm not familiar with the 903cc motor so will check with Mr Haynes
    tonight and confirm.  
    
    There are usually two sets of marks on Fiat motors:
    
    1) Under a rectangular plastic bung on top of the clutch housing. 
    Looking at the motor from the clutch end they are like
    
    |-v--v--v--v-|
      T  5  10 15  where T= top dead centre and 5/10/15 are degrees before
    		   TDC
    
    The timing mark is either a notch or a blind hole near the edge of the
    flywheel which rotates under the timing marks.  I recommend you paint
    the mark with white paint, Tippex, or whatever because it's dark in
    there.  The flywheel rotates counter-clockwise when you're looking at
    this end and the engine's turning.
    
    Timing should be set as No 1 cylinder is on the firing stroke.  Just
    see that the rotor arm is pointing in the general direction of the No 1
    contact in the distributor cap if you're doing static timing.  If
    you're using a strobe then just hang the trigger lead on No 1 plug
    lead.
    
    2) There is usually a mark on the pulley on the end of the crakshaft at 
    the timing belt/chain end of the motor and corresponding 15/10/5/T 
    marks adjacent on the motor or cambelt cover.  You normally have to
    remove the metal cover  in the bottom of the wheel arch to see these
    marks.  The crankshaft rotates clockwise when you're looking at this end
    of the engine.
    
    It's recommended that you use the marks at the clutch end to set the
    timing. 
    
    Hope this helps in the meantime.
    
    John

    Cheers John, I do remember seing the marks you mentioned on the Clutch
    Housing (although the plastic plug must be lying on the M1 somewhere) -
    there were no numbers adjacent to these marks and I saw no mark or hole
    on the clutch itself as I rotated the engine. I shall have a peep again
    tonight.
    
    There is a mark on the pully and one mark on the engine casing but none
    to be seen elsewhere in the vicinity so i'll stick to the clutch end.
    I'd like to use a strobe and could get my hands on one but then i'd
    also need a rev-counter which is just not possible so i'll stay static.
    
    thanks again, shaun 

    Shaun,
    
    .50 was almost right.  There are only 3 marks on the clutch housing
    like:
    
    |-V--v--v-| 
    
    representing respectively TDC, 5 & 10 deg.before TDC (no mark for 15
    deg).
    
    John

    re .46
    
    In continuation of my rant and rave against con-artist garages......
    the silencer came away from the rest of the exhaust this weekend - only
    two weeks after the full service and MOT.
    
    Give it another week and i'll be lucky if the wheels dont just all pop
    off at the same time as the seats collapse through the floor pans!!
    
    Nice one mecanics!!
    
    Shaun$annoyed

    Shaun,
    
    To be fair, from your description of what happened, it sounds like the
    welded joint rusted though, which is a classic symptom of a car having
    been stood idle for a few years. It's unlikely they'd have spotted the
    fact that the joint was about to fail as the rest of the exhaust
    probably looked ok.
    
    Laurie.

    After I had calmed down I thought the same thing Loz, yet I did notice
    the day after the MOT/SERVICE that the exhaust was blowing somewhere.
    It was noticable as I passed hedgerows or walls on the near side and I
    mentioned this to Malin at the time.
    
    Shaun