Conference terri::cars_uk

    Does anyone know the currnt cost of using the AA's Legal Services to take
    up a claim for you?

    Or know the relevant phone number?
    
    Kris.

    It is, as Spud says, nothing to members. the phone numbers are
    01-891-1441 for legal advice, and 01-891-4444 for their independant
    technical advisors. (I'm not sure whether these numbers are now 071, or
    081 I'm afraid). It can take a heck of a long time for them to answer
    the phone at the switchboard, sometimes to the point that BT cut you
    off 'cos it's been ringing too long. If you can't get through on one
    number try the other, and get them to get the others to call you back.
    They will pass messages, but cannot transfer you. The people I spoke to
    were extremely helpful, but sometimes a bit slow in getting letters
    out, they have something like a minimum 3-day turnaround from sending
    the letter to be typed to it getting out. Apart from that they tried
    every avenue for me for about 3 months with my problem (suing a garage
    for a new gearbox on the tivver), but ultimately were unable to solve
    it, but through no fault of their own ...
    
    Peter

    If the AA take up a claim, they do normally make a nominal charge
    for their services, though it generally depends on the claim and
    its circumstances.
    
    From experience, though the AA is bigger, the RAC tends to be more
    efficient.  I'm slightly biased in that I have a friend who works
    for RAC Legal Services after being headhunted from the AA!
    
    

The AA took up my claim, but due to the fact that the blame could not be pointed
100% at anyone, it never made it to court or anything like that. There was never
a mention of any charge, however small, being levied, except for technical
inspection of the gearbox itself ...

Peter

The AA successfully recovered lots of money for me from IBM's insurers 
after one of their company Volvo's rammed me off the road. It took about 10 
months though because of delaying tactics by the other party. During this 
time the AA kept me informed by mail of all developments and were very 
efficent. No charge was levied - I am insured via the AA Ins. Services. I 
am not a member of the AA.

Dave.

Re .-1

> ...from IBM's insurers after one of their company Volvo's rammed me off the
> road.

Sounds like Big Blue were taking the competitive spirit a bit far!

Jon

    
    Does anyone have any experience of claiming from AA '5-star' insurance
    after a theft or accident abroad ? Can anyone recommend any better
    insurance (for a 3-week trip in Europe) ?
    
    Karen
    

    I used them when I broke down in Italy - excellent and prompt service
    from the Italian equivalent, nominal sum to pay, no paperwork.  Dunno
    about more serious stuff.
    
    John

    
    I used them once - actually it was my parents who drove to Yugoslavia
    and my Dad got ill and couldn't drive back, Mum doesn't drive so I flew
    

    
    Woops - end of my note got cut off - what I was going to say was I flew
    out and drove them back and AA 5 star paid for the lot no quibbles.

    I put a note about 5 star somewhere a few years back but can't find
    it. Anyway I would recommend it without question, from my experience
    in France in 1982. I had a head-on crash near Bordeaux. The Escort
    was not drivable. It was a company car. I had no help whatsoever
    from Digital but 5 star HQ got the car shipped back from one
    quick phone call. They also advised me to pick up a hire car  at
    the airport nearby. I had the hire car for the rest of the holiday
    despite the fact that we were camping & shipped the lot back up
    to ST Malo for the return ferry trip.
                           
    I had a hire car waiting at Portsmouth & my original car was already
    at the garage when I got home. The best 30.00 pounds I ever spent.
    
    Richard.

I can recommend the AA 5 star as well, I had an accident in France, again in
a lease car, just one phone call and help is on its way.  Worth every penny,
I don't leave England without it...

Dave

    
    .22 - .26  Thanks for the info. It looks like thumbs up for 5-star !
    
    Another question - has anyone every hired (or bought) one of those
    lockable boxes which sit on the roof ? Apparently you can hire them
    from the AA. Are they secure and strong ? I'm worried that they're 
    an advert that your car is loaded with gear.
    
    Ta !
    
    Karen
    

    I hired one of these boxes to transport ski's, boots, and bits,
    and drove from London to Chamonix (Geneva area) with no problems.
    
    No noticable impact on fuel consumption (given that the car was
    fully loaded and carrying four adults I didn't expect to get normal
    consumption)
    
    The brackets holding the box were normal 'gutter' clamp types as
    with a million other roof-racks.
    
    No fears of it coming off at speed, and it was still there after
    a 90/100 mph hack up the peage to catch the ferry home.
    
    As for security - I s'pose you have to take your chances and bear
    in mind where you are. The locks are quite strong, but wouldn't
    stop anyone with a crow-bar :-) The box is held to the rack-frames
    with blind-bolts so the thief shouldn't be able to remove it, and
    the rack-frames had locks on them so they couldn't be unbolted.
    
    Personally, I'd recommend the top-boxes. Much better than open racks
    and sheets of polythene.
    
    AMS

        
>    No fears of it coming off at speed, and it was still there after
>    a 90/100 mph hack up the peage to catch the ferry home.

     Weren't speeding were you Tony ? ;-)

    
    Does anybody have the telephone number of Britannia Rescue ?
    
    
    Cheers
    
    Steven

    I have just realised that my free RAC cover has expired and they
    haven't sent me a renewal form so ..... is Britannia Rescue still the
    best? A few details,
    
    I do 60 miles a day of motorway driving to get to work and back and
    don't use the car at weekends. Also, the car is only a year old. I have
    tried and failed to change the wheel (not strong enough :-( ) so I do
    need help ;-)
    
    
    Lisa.

>>
    tried and failed to change the wheel (not strong enough :-( ) so I do
    need help ;-)
>>
    Rather than having to wait for the AA/RAC/whoever just to change a
    wheel, why not invest in a 'extending wheelbrace' - available from most
    tool shops (or AA shop) - you should be able to undo any car wheelnut 
    with that! - I keep mine in the Landy, since the wheelnut torque settings 
    are 70-80lb/ft - which is a bit much for the short wheelbraces as supplied
    with most cars!
    
    The other thing to do is to make sure that the garage has put the wheel
    nuts on at the correct 'tightness' - if you can't undo them with the
    extending wheel brace - I would suggest they are on too tight! 
    
    If you're in DEC Park - I can bring my wheelbrace to show you (and a
    torque wrench too - and we can check the tightness!)
    
    Elaine

    	I'd go for the AA....They've always been helpful..fixed any
    problems with the car & have nearly always been within the specified
    time limit 
    
    Kevin

National Breakdown is pretty good.  Their callout times have always been faster 
than my previous experiences with the AA (pre-special treatment for lone women).

They seem to be willing to do "roadside-fixes" as long as you let the
controller know what the problem is, i.e. you have to do your own diagnostics
so that the local chappy who is called out of bed, can bring the right bits
with him, otherwise they tend to haul you to the nearest garage and leave you 
there ([speculation] it's tough if it's the middle of the night).

The AA was better in that respect, in that they only haul you to the nearest 
garage as a last resort, rather than first.

    I would not join the AA on principle, since they have spoken out
    against the use of vehicles off-road (or on green lanes), quoting
    some information from, I believe, the Ramblers Association, who do
    not put together completely truthful statements on this issue.
    
    What is even worse, is that Land Rover provide free AA membership
    with purchase of one of their new products (at least the did), even
    though the majority of (UK) persons who drive 'off-road' do so in
    Rover products...
    
    J.R.

    Does anyone have the phone numbers of the AA, Britannia and National
    Breakdown? I've looked in the yellow pages and phone book and couldn't
    find them.
    
    Thanks,
    
    
    Lisa.
    

    
    I agree with .35, for a motoring organisation the AA does seem to be 
    on the side of ramblers.... I used to be a member of the AA, and when I
    did have cause to call them out, they took ages to come, although the
    man was very helpful when he did arrive....  I have had _lots_ of
    trouble with the AA as insurance brokers.   (and yes, Land Rover do
    still give free AA membership!)
    
    I am now a member of the RAC, and have had to use them twice, both
    times they arrived within the half hour, and on the first occaision,
    when I then had to wait for a break-down truck to take me home, the
    first van came back after attending another call, to make sure I was
    ok!  (The second time was with the bike, and they actually arrived with
    the necessary type of truck to take the bike home) 
    
    Elaine

�    I agree with .35, for a motoring organisation the AA does seem to be 
�    on the side of ramblers.... 
    
    Of course, the fact that Farmers buy Land Rover products, and
    are land-owners, means that may of them may want 4x4 users to
    be kept off of that land, whether it is a right or not.
    
    I guess that L.R. are bowing to the wishes of those with more dosh...
    
    J.R.

	I've benn a member of the AA for a few years and found them OK for the
	few times I've called them out.  On all occasions they go there within
	the hour (5 times).  Three of those times they've recovered my bike,
	although if I had a larger rear type it would have been damn difficult!

	The local Basingstoke free-bee paper had an article saying that the AA
	is getting stroppy about people that call them out more than 6/8 times
	a year - it's worth checking that out.  I heard (roumour warning) that
	the RAC won't recover crashed vehicles - this was a recent policy
	change - anybody confirm/deny this??

	I also prefer the AA as it covers me rather than a particular vehicle(s)
	without having to tell them all the details of all my modes of
	transport.

	Rob

    
    The RAC covers you, not the car, although it does give the added bonus
    of covering one car for anyone...
    
    Or at least, our cover does.
    
    Mark

	Sorry Mark - I stand corected.  Perhaps I was thinking of the "free"
	cover deals on cars when you buy them.

	Do you know anything about the accident recovery by the RAC.

	Rob

	

    
    I believe that the RAC will recover crashed vehicles from a competitive
    events should you have the misfortune to 'bend' the vehicle that you
    used to get to the event! As far as road accidents are concerned  - I'm
    afraid I don't know. I'd better check my membership details on that!
    
    I do know that our membership covers whatever vehicle I am
    driving/riding, regardless of owner.
    
    Elaine  

.39>	a year - it's worth checking that out.  I heard (roumour warning) that
.39>	the RAC won't recover crashed vehicles - this was a recent policy
.39>	change - anybody confirm/deny this??
    
    They recovered me last November after someone crashed into me - and the
    recovery man made me pay for it then and there saying that the RAC 
    introduced some small print so that you were only covered if you 
    broke down - otherwise all they did was to provide a breakdown truck
    for you.
    
    (I recovered the cost from my insurance co.)
    
    
    Tony O.

     Thats right, I think it's called premier or some such name and costs
    lots of dosh. I think it gets a mention in the Blue book, which I don't
    carry as a matter of course.  I seem to remember that it is either
    cheaper or there's a special rate for competition license holders or 
    that bit of it was only open to competition hold or I'm totally
    confused. 
    
    Garry
    

    
    
    re: .39
    
    I had the misfortune to use the AA the other night, and the patrolman
    said that they were keeping files on people that persistantly abuse the
    call-out system for petty reasons or for no reason at all. If you try
    it on eight times or more, they will charge you 25 quid a call-out.
    
    Sean.

	About five years ago I was with a friend who had to call out the AA 
	because we had got a stone in the wheel and it sounded terrible.

	About two-three hours later they turned up and fixed the car.

	It turned out that we were not  actually covered. The owner was but the 
	car wasn't and the owner was not with us.

	Luckily the patrolman had a sense of humour. He let us off as long as 
	we stopped calling him a nice man.

	I wonder what they would have done if we tried it eight times.

    I have belonged to both, I have called the AA a few times and  I
    have called the Rac  once.  The time I called the RAC it took so long to
    get an answer that I gave up. The AA normally turn out even if the
    patrolman does bugger all and it takes 2 or 3 hours to get to you. The
    one thing that does get up my nose is they never listen to what you
    say. I had a broken return spring in a gearbox, I knew it and told the
    AA I needed to be recovered as it was impossible to change gear , 4th
    isn't much help to anyone. They sent a pratrolman after about 2 hour to
    see what he could do, supprisingly nothing,only to say that he needed
    to get authority to recover me . He got the the authority but it wasn't
    him who was doing it. He disappeared while I waited for the recovery
    van. About 1-2 hours later he returned, "oh it's me thats doing the
    recovery". All I can say is , I'm glad I don't call them very often. 
    
    
    	Garry

    Re. AA and frequent call-outs
    
    I read in the paper last week that the AA will start charging
    for 'persistent' users.  This is to try and avoid being misused
    by people who do not maintain their vehicles, but call out the
    recovery service to get the car going when necessary.
    
    Re. RAC and recovery of competition vehicles
    
    Anyone got any more info on this, as I am thinking of joining,
    since the Heep stands a good chance of not being able to get home
    from trials.  Of course, I could say that I was only spectating
    (usually permitted to drive your own vehicle on the off-road terrain)
    and not competing - no competition numbers are displayed either,
    but would they turn up and provide recovery or not ?
    
    J.R.

    To clarify the special competition pickup service etc that the RAC
    provide. It is definatly at a cost , and those bit which they class a
    priviledged are for for those directly involved in motorsport, ie: they
    hold a competition licence or are a motorsport official (scrutineer
    etc). It appears to be a special scheme provided to the RACMSA . I
    can't remember much more but about the why's and wherefores but if you
    need to know more it's on the back page of the Blue book. If you don't
    own a copy of the blue book, looks like you are out of luck.
    
    
    Garry
    

�    etc). It appears to be a special scheme provided to the RACMSA . I
�    can't remember much more but about the why's and wherefores but if you
�    need to know more it's on the back page of the Blue book. If you don't
�    own a copy of the blue book, looks like you are out of luck.
    
    I have an out-of-date copy of the Blue Book at home.  If this scheme
    has been available for some time, then perhaps it's in there.
    If it is only available for a substantial premium, then it is
    probably not worth me paying extra for it.
    
    I recall seeing an advert in the Club magazine for RAC membership,
    so maybe their are special terms available.  I'll have to find out.
    
    Other than recovery of 'competition vehicles', anyone know what their
    rulings would be for a vehicle that was rendered undrivable due to an
    'off-road incident' ?  Would they provide recovery or not (to a member) ?
    
    J.R.

�If you have an RAC competition licence 
    
    Since AWDC Trials are not a 'speed' event, I don't have a comp. licence.
    
    If I were to enter Safari's, that would be another thing, but it would
    usually be prudent to use a trailer for that class of event.
    
    J.R.

I prefer the national breakdown - I've only used them once but they
turned up really quickly, fixed the problem and a couple of days
later I received a questionaire asking me to comment on the service,
whether the mechanic was polite, clean etc. They appear to be very
efficient.

Cost is very competitive too.

If you have 2 vehicles you get the second one � price - you also have
the option of taking out personal cover that will cover you rather than
the vehicle. If you cover the vehicle it is covered for any driver.

I pay about �70 for 2 vehicles for their comprehensive cover which
has roadside assistance, recovery all over the UK and they will take you
either home or where you are heading and cover includes Europe.

Sorry don't know the number off hand.

John.

    
    Does anyone know if the RAC do an equivalent service to the AA 5* cover
    for travelling abroad? Or - does anyone have a 'phone number for them,
    so I can enqire directly?
    
    thanks
    Elaine

    Not sure but the latest racmsa news gives a rac leaflet out that show the
    discounts and services that as a holder of a competition license can
    get.  Maybe you know someone who could maybe fit the bill???????
    
    
    
    
    	Garry

	RAC general enquiries : 081-686 2314


	Mark.

    
    Yes the RAC DO provide similar cover to the AA's 5-Star. If you've got
    a Vauxhall under warranty it's free!!!!! :^) Any RAC office will
    provide details or a contact number.
    
    Mark

I haven't got any details (been talking to an RAC man), but the RAC apparently
do full European cover along with their normal recovery stuff, apparently they
now have vans in Europe !

This is not like the AA 5* cover which is essentially temporary holiday cover.

It could be an interesting deal for people who regularly drive to the continent 
on business, and could work out cheaper than getting the "extra" cover offered 
by the AA, National Breakdown etc.

The RAC deal only insists that you have an Address in Britain, this may not
even be your permanent address !

I was looking into this for my mother who lives in France, and it was
apparently ok for her to use my address as her "Address in Britain"... 

    
    Thanks for the replys - I started with the 'phone number supplied a few
    notes back - thanks.... and after about another 10 calls, I got what I
    wanted!  
    
    Everyone I spoke to was very helpful, and it was sugested that rather
    than take out their 'tempory' cover for abroad, that I extend our
    current membership to include their European cover, which is for the 
    whole year (as Jane said). The reason I had to do all the 'phoning
    around was that our membership is through the RAC Motorsports
    association, which has the details in a different database from the
    normal RAC membership - who only have a reference to the fact that we
    are memebers and can be assisted! 
    
    ANyway - it's sorted out now! (Cost of temporary cover �46, to extend
    our memebership �44 - with whatever discounts you get for racr licence
    holders)

    Does anyone have any details on this European stuff? I've never joined
    either the RAC or the AA, mostly because I have no concerns about my
    own mechanical abilities. In the UK, I have access to breakdown
    facilities etc. Cover here in Europe was impossible on an annual basis,
    and holiday cover is useless if you live outside the UK on a
    semi-permanent basis.
    
    However, this RAC stuff could be just what I need. Details gratefully
    received. Both my main cars are somewhat aged, and maybe some breakdown
    cover wouldn't be a bad idea....
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

Laurie,

What's your mail stop, I'll pick up the brochures this saturday (if the man is 
still there) and send them to you.

    Thanks Jane, much obliged.
    
    It's Laurie Brown @BRO. They tell me that it's not necessary to mention
    the building (we have three) but I don't believe them... It's Keiberg
    2.
    
    Cheers, Laurie.

    
    We extended our normal RAC membership to include 'Reflex Europe' - and
    had cause to test their service! We hit a deer in Austria, which
    wrecked the front of the car. A passer-by took us to the local Police
    station, where they called out the �AMTC (Austrian recovery service)
    for us (and the local dead deer collection service :-)  )and then the
    Police took us back to our car and waited with us until the pick-up
    truck arrived - only about 20mins I guess. We were then towed to a
    garage, and taken to collect a hire car, and then on to a hotel.
    
    The only problems we had were because we had arranged the cover at the
    last minute, we did not have the RAC 'letters of credit' with us, so we
    had to pay for the tow (which will be refunded) and we had to wait
    until the next morning for the hire car company to get the letter of
    credit by FAX from the RAC for the hire car. (We took it away initially 
    using our own credit card). 
    
    I found the RAC Overseas Rescue Office staff _very_ helpful and
    friendly - they always 'phone you back, so you don't have to pay for
    the calls, and they seem well informed, with a proper 'hand over'
    between evening and morning staff, so that we weren't passed from one
    person to another to find our 'file'.  
    
    The car is in the process of being recovered from Austria, and the
    staff in the UK have also been very helpful, and keen to get things
    sorted out ASAP.   
    
    The only thing to watch is the exact amount which they will pay towards
    a hire car. Because we wanted to take the Austrian car all the way back
    to Calais, it was going to cost more than their limit (of about �700)
    and we were asked to cover the rest ourselves. I intend to find out
    what the other options would have been! We also had a hire car waiting
    for us at Dover - which we can keep for three days.

    Called out the RAC twice now:
    
    Once, because I had a blowout on the M20, and no spare (silly). Called
    out the RAC not really expecting any help. Sub-contractor arrived about
    20 minutes later and towed me to a tyre stockist in Ashford (the
    cheapest he said). Got tyre fitted. No problem. Very impressed!
    
    Secondly, just after Christmas driving down from Walsall to Folkestone.
    Water pump went on the M6. My girlfriend had her card with her which
    was in her mother's name (car used to belong to mother, now her's,
    hadn't changed membership details). Called RAC - arrived in 15 minutes,
    barely time to walk back to the car from the emergency telephone! RAC
    engineer agreed to help after a bit of persuasion/proof of who we were.
    He towed us to Corley services, went away to get a new water pump, was
    back and had fitted it within an hour.
    
    Hope they keep up such a high level of service.
    
    Dale.

    Does anyone have details of either the RAC or AA services abroad?
    
    I don't mean the 5-star cover you can get, but the actual breakdown
    service like in the UK that lasts for a year etc...
    
    Thx.

RAC do full cover for Europe...can't remember the details though.

You'll have to accost one of those RAC men with umbrellas and a box...

    I get free cover in Europe with my National Breakdown deal.
    
    Bazza
    

	This months which magazine did a review of the breakdown services,
	time-to-recover, services offered, costs of services

	I'll try to remember to bring it in.


	Heather    

    	Yea, that's the kind of stuff. Does anyone have any phone
    numbers aswell. I'm in France at the moment, so can't do anything
    but phone or write. I'm asking because i remember seeing a AA van
    at the Geneva car show with signs up saying "Join here".
    
    Thanks,
    
    					Lewis.

	RAC Refex Europe - 
	
	When I moved to Frankfurt for a while I decided that I would require 
	cover for my 1977 Mini!

	As it happens, had to use them 2nd day in France 
	(the alternator packed up).

	In France there is a toll free number (24 Hours). A garage was called 
	and turned up after 30 mins or so ... they saw the Mini and said 
	You need the Rover garage ... follow me .. which I did .. had to give
	the garage a letter of credit for 500FF (approx) which was picked up 
	by RAC. 
	At the Rover garage they took a look .. agreed that a new alternator
	was required .. did not have the bit in stock .. they would have to 
	obtain one from the local parts shop .. come back after lunch.
	Went back after lunch .. all fixed. paid bill with more letters of
	credit.

	The RAC pick's up the tab for the labour .. you pay for the parts.
	
	BTW The RAC in UK do better on the motorcycle front so that's why I
	use them. 
	IMO the cost of membership per year approx. equals the cost of 1 
	callout / tow to a garage.
	
	
	

    Just got my renewal notice for my RAC membership .... OUCH! 
    
    I got free membership for the first year with my new car. Second year
    was only about 45 pounds for the all singing, all dancing REFLEX
    option. Now they want me to renew at a cost of 106 pounds!!!! I don't
    think its worth it. I only drive my car between J14 and J11 on the M4
    during the week - at the weekend it stays in the garage. Do you think I
    could get away with the standard tow it to the garage cover? Is the RAC
    better than the AA for this? The standard cover is only 38 pounds.
    
    Advice please,
    
    Thanks!
    
    Lisa.
    

    
    Try Britannia Rescue (0202 292333). 
    
    Always faster than the AA (I've found the RAC comparable, in my limited 
    experience) and cheaper (for a single car) than either by a long shot!
    
    Mark

re.72:

I think you should look at the RAC offering again. Two things I noted, 1)
Reflex gives you added benefits, such as European cover, which is normally
extra, 2) the RAC are cocking up their pricing due to ambiquous literature and
lack of staff training. Give 'em a call and tell them about _your_ problem, you
might get a better deal. If not you could always join again taking advantage of
their new member discount schemes :-)

/Dave.

    Just called Brittania - I got transferred about 4 times then told to
    phone 0484 514848. The basic cover costs more than RAC, 49.95.
    
    I don't need additional cover in Europe etc so I think I'll call the
    RAC and bargain with them .....
    
    Thanks,
    
    Lisa.
    

    
    Ummmm.
    
    Sounds like Britannia've gone downhill!
    
    Mark

    Try National Breakdown... with them it's the car rather than the driver
    that joins their membership (so-to-speak) which used to make their
    basic rate a lot cheaper that the AA's.
    
    Also your insurance company may have a special deal arranged with some
    group like AA or whatever... Direct Line Insurance have a deal set up
    with National Breakdown.

For those of you who don't particularly enjoy sitting behind the wheel of a 
car (am I in the wrong conference?) and who would prefer not to support the 
road-construction-firm lobby there is an alternative to the AA/RAC:

The Environmental Transport Association  (ETA)
The Old Post House
Heath Road
Weybridge KT13 8RS

Tel. 0932 828882


Here is the comparison table they produce:

				ETA	AA	NBRC	RAC
Roadside Assistance		Y	Y	Y	Y
Recovery			Y	Y	Y	Y
Home Rescue			Y	Y	Y	Y
Legal Advise & expenses		Y	Y	Y	Y
European Cover			Y	N	Y	N
Replacement Car			Y	N	N	N
Personal Accident cover		Y	N	N	N
Message Service			Y	N	N	N
Road Lobbying			N	Y	Y	Y
Price				�66	�77	�72	�82

The ETA cover extends to all forms of transport (including foot), not just
car travel.  Members recieve a well written magazine and can also obtain very 
reasonably priced insurance scheme for low mileage (under 8K pa)vehicles.

Recovery services are subcontracted to GESA Assistance and ETA reckon their 
response times are faster than the competition.

The ETA is supported by the World Wide Fund for Nature (WWF).

Another big plus...  You do not of course get all the junk mail that the other 
organisations send.

Gavin

re.78:

I don't understand ETA's comparison table, for example, both the AA and RAC give
European cover.

Dave.

    
    Ah, but surely the AA and RAC European cover is NOT covered for the
    prices quoted?
    
    Mark

re.80:

I think it's misleading to present information like that.

Dave.

    
    Maybe, but the alternative is to show how much the AA and RAC charge
    for a similar service, which can also be viewed as misleading as it
    wouldn't be clear that the AA and RAC offer more basic services as
    well at a lower cost.
    
    However you look at it, the lower cost/greater service of ETA would
    seem worthy of further investigation?
    
    Mark

    
    
    An alternative to AA or RAC is an insurance called Autoaid, this
    doesn't give you a single contact point and its done but if you can
    find a garage to repair/tow you pay the bill and claim it back. It also
    covers things like Hotel accomodation if stranded.If your on a motorway
    the police will locate a garage for you.
    
    So its slightly harder work in that you find your own garage and you
    pay them and claim it.
    
    But heres the big difference for equivelent to roadside assistance and
    recovery it costs about #17.00 which is a big difference!!!
    
    They can be contacted on 0277 200100
    
    Richard
    ps. they use a vax

 Another alternative is GEM ( The Guild of Experienced Motorists ).

 This system is similar to the one in -1, basically it is an insurance policy
that covers the cost of getting your car recoverd if it breaks down plus one or 
two other bits. They have a 24 hour hour help line which you can call in an
emergency, they will direct you to the nearest garage.

 I believe the cost is about thirty pounds a year, with discount if you are a 
member of ROSPA.

 For more details thier adress is

  The Guild Of Experienced Motorists.
  Station Road,
  Forest Row,
  East Sussex RH18 5EN.

 Tel 0342 825676

	Barrie.

    
    In the paper of the weekend..
    
    The AA have started to give their patrol men Harley Davidson Electra
    Glide motorcycles instead of the BMWs they currently use.
    
    Please, me, please...
    
    RIch
    
    

    Did it say why ?
    
    Roy

    
    ...because when it's painted yellow and white it's exactly the same
    dimentions (weight, width etc) as a van.... :-) only slower and less
    comfortable....
    
    
    Alan.

    Just thought I'd put in a good word for the AA (and the Halfords
    Service Centre in Fareham).
    
    At a � to 6pm a couple of weeks back my car developed a transmission
    fault in that some pin sheared thus disabling any linkage between the
    gearbox and the engine.
    
    At the time I suspected my clutch had gone and when I phoned the AA I
    told them as much and so when their engineer turned up he arrived in a
    tow-truck within � an hour. After he proved to himself that my car was
    immobile he towed me, at my request to Halfords in Fareham.
    
    Next step was to call out Avis to get me a rental car; for an extra
    annual premium of, I think in the region of �18, in the event of my 
    car going up the spout I am entitled to 48 hours worth of rental car, 
    or an overnight stay in a hotel, or public transport to my destination. 
    Due to the hour of day the AA had to call out Avis to open up their
    Portsmouth office specifically to give me a car. So within 2 hours I
    was back on the road in a Rover 216.
    
    Now I have to admit that in 82000 miles my Peugeot 205 has never broken
    down before and therefore I have never needed to call out the AA
    before. And so you could argue that in the last three previous years I
    had more than paid for the Avis car. However the way I view the AA is
    that, ok the annual fee may be well expensive, but what you are
    basically paying for is peace of mind. 
    
    A few back mentioned some service that requires you to do all the
    leg work (and initial expense) to find a garage that will fix your car... 
    All I can say is that at a � to 6pm, the last thing I wanted to do was to 
    organize my car's recovery from the roadside.
    
    As for the Halfords (AA approved incidentally) bit...
    
    Despite the late hour (close to closing time) and despite the fact that
    my car could not be driven, the Halfords staff ensured that my car was
    put under lock and key inside for its overnight stay. I was also given a
    written, fixed price quotation for replacing a clutch before I left.
    
    Despite the short notice, by 12 noon the next day Halfords had
    stripped the 'engine and gearbox' and had located the problem to the
    sheared pin in the transmission; this information was relayed to me by
    phone (they phoned me) and in layman's terms. I was also advised to
    have the clutch changed as "there wasn't a lot of life left in it and
    I'd save on labour when it did go"; some of you will probably laugh at
    this, but I trust these guys and so I gave them the go ahead.)
    
    Despite the unusual nature of my car's breakdown, the short notice, the
    fact that it was a weekend, Halfords managed to source a replacement
    part for my car (though admittedly I was warned that it may be the
    following Tuesday before my car would be fixed) and my car was back on
    the road Sunday morning.
    
    The total bill came to �195 (�20 more than the cost of replacing the
    clutch alone); �100 cheaper than what Peugeot charge to replace the
    clutch.
    
    I used to think you had to drive an expensive German car to receive the
    level of service that was offered to me from Halfords and the AA that
    weekend... I now know different.
    
    Reargards,
    
    Stephen
                                                  

	I've used Halfords to get parts quickly on a Sunday.
	They came up with a new brake calliper on Sunday afternoon
	after requesting it Sunday morning.  They also repaired
	my father in law's car at short notice on a Saturday at
	a very reasonable price.

	Dave

    Last friday night, my Calibra did the big finger and sullenly refused
    to start after a run from London to Leeds. Phoned the AA at 11:30 pm.
    AA man arrived about an hour later, lifted the bonnet and said,
    
    "Jesus. How the f**k do they expect me fix that. Better call relay in
    the morning."
    
    Not very helpful. Luckily, the bugger started (albeit sounding like a
    dog) on Saturday morning and I limped to the local Vauxhall dealer who
    replaced three sensors and the fuel injection relay. (as an aside, this
    appears to have fix the strange behaviour the engine sometimes
    exhibited)
    
    Quite a contrast from three weeks before when some bastards tried to
    break in to it and only managed to wreck the door lock. That time an AA
    man spentan hour trying to disarm it, managed to get in (without
    disarming it) only to find that the attempted theft had ruined the
    micro-switches. AA relay then shipped it to the Vauxhall dealer and
    sourced a hire car, all on the busy first weekend of the school
    holidays.
    
    Level of service with the AA is definitely variable.
    
    Clive

    
    	This may have been mentioned before but,I'm with Natonal Breakbown
    and i've used them twice with a combined call out time of 35 minutes.
    not bad eh!
    	Is was taking to the mechanic you attended my last call out and he
    said that if the call goes to there garage and there not there within
    the hour (without a good excuse)then the garage is put under suspension
    from national breakdown call outs.
    		National breakdown also go to woman stranded on motorways
    even if they have no cover,the person is then invoiced for the call
    (approx 20quid)or asked to join.The guy also told me that National were
    the first to give lone woman priority service.
    
    	I'm impressed!
    			Andy.

    
    � if the call goes to there garage and there not there 
                          
    Wow, pick a way to spell "there" and stick with it
    
    :-) 
    
    Sorry, couldn't resist

    But which is best? 
    
    Regards,
    Rosalind

    The AA and the RAC are quoting the same price for option 400 and Reflex
    which I believe are very similar services...shall I go for the RAC as
    they are blue, because that's my favourite colour?
    
    Confused of Basingstoke

re.97:

You will often find AA/RAC reps loitering in public places (Halfords, motorway
service stations, etc...) with special deals if you sign now, much better than
paying full price. I also check on the best new member deals before renewing.

Dave.

    I've been quoted �99 by both, and both for special offers. The AA deal
    is 2 people for the price of 1, and the RAC deal is for new membership
    and one payment.
    
    Regards,
    Rosalind

        Having been a member of both, I can say that I prefer the RAC.
        I left the AA for two reasons:
        
        1. Their recovery service is done in 'relays' (which is why
        it's called Relay!) On a long journey you'll be transferred
        multiple times. The RAC will take you all the way on one
        transporter.
        
        2. Every year the AA sent me enough junk mail to wallpaper my 
        entire house. 
        
        Another option to joining a motoring organisation is to find
        out how much it costs, then put that amount of money in a
        savings account every year. If you do break down, phone a garage 
        and take the money out again.  I did that for years, and saved a
        fortune!
        
        Ian.

    How about others like NAt Breakdown, Brittannic ?
    
    There is also a green motoring org that is apparently the fastest
    growing in the UK !
    
    And check your car insurance, perhaps they have a special deal with one
    company or the other ?
    
    Having said that  I'm with the RAC, I used to have Reflex, but I've now
    gone for just the Basic (new car, not that many miles, costs alot less,
    car warranty will cover the cost of towing and repairing)
    
    Dave D.

Hi,

For my tuppence worth I have been a member of either the AA or the RAC
for many years, both have taken over 4 hours on occasions to arrive,
the RAC being the worst in my view after leaving my wife stranded in
Risley just South of Reading for nearly 6 hours on her own, so much
for lone female priority. 

I now have my breakdown cover with National Breakdown, luckily I have 
not had to use them as yet so I cannot really say how good they are.

PS. The AA's worst case In my experience was the day I broke down
on the A3 (near Guildford) on a Triumph Trident motorcycle which
had thrown a con-rod and totally smashed the bottom out of the 
engine. The AA refused to send a relay van direct but insisted on
sending a small van to check the damage as in their opinion the
very nice man should be able to get me going again. Two hours later
he turns up takes a 2 second look, says OH sh*t I can't do anything
with that I will have to call a relay, 4 hours later an independant
garage tow truck turns up (called by the AA), why it took 4 hours
I will never know,the tow truck driver was only called out 1/2 hour
before he arrived.

Good luck, the choice is yours.

\Graham N

re.102:

>the RAC being the worst in my view after leaving my wife stranded in
>Risley just South of Reading for nearly 6 hours on her own, so much
>for lone female priority. 

Riseley is a very safe place! We have a very low crime rate in the area. Hardly
comparable with being stranded on a motorway. You can at least knock on someones
door and ask for help. Six hours is still unforgiveable and beats my record
waiting for the AA of four hours in temperatures well below zero.

By coincidence, I've just received my RAC renewal and they just priced
themselves out of the market...so the AA is now best ;-)

Dave.

        re .103>
� 4 hours later an independent
� garage tow truck turns up (called by the AA), why it took 4 hours
� I will never know,the tow truck driver was only called out 1/2 hour
� before he arrived.
        
        This was my experience with both the AA and RAC - in the
        majority of cases they just called a local garage to come out.
        I figured it's more efficient to call the garage myself and 
        save the subscription.
        
        Ian.

    re .102
    Same experience here, had an 1100 Honda break a cam chain on the M4.
    Totalled all 16 valves and made a bit of a mess of the pistons and
    con-rods.
    Called the AA who insisted on sending a van out even though I told them
    it was a waste of time. The very nice man then insisted on trying to
    start it, just to see what would happen. I then waited several hours
    for a tow truck, which when it arrived was not designed for bikes. The
    bike ended up being lashed to the back of the cab, causing several
    hundred pounds worth of damage to the fairing which the AA refused to
    cough up for.
    
    Rob

    I don't know what the AA use, but the RAC logging and call-out system
    (CARS) runs on a load of VAXes, mostly in Stockport... 
    
    I don't know which way that would influence your decision   :-)

    The AA use ICL boxes running Ingres and there not too happy about CA's
    recent takeover from ASK.
    
    	Rik

    For six months, I was a team leader on the project that built the AA's 
    logging and call out system. They used the then (it was eight years ago) 
    new ICL 3900 and had a couple of old 2600's (have I got the computer 
    numbers right?). The thing was coded in COBOL and mirrored the paper 
    system they had in place. I can only say that the development process
    and team morale was, errrm, interesting and can be best captured by one 
    wag's huge office 'crash-ometer' and 'bug-ometer' which he had lots of
    time to update.
    
    Just to make you feel good: I was responsible for the development
    system and refused to switch to the 'revolutionary' OSLAN (a fibre
    optic terminal server) 'cause the thing kept crashing. At one point I  
    threatened to throw the heap of crap out onto the concrete if the ICL   
    account manager (who had a perverted sense of customer care) didn't get 
    off my back and fix the damn thing. The issue went 'red' alert (the    
    directors of SSL and AA put it to the directors of ICL that something  
    needed fixing, pronto) and so some excellent ICL developers were
    scrambled from Bristol and took two weeks (they had the system between 
    8.00pm and 8.00am) to track down the bug in the OSLAN's kernal!
    							    ^^^^^^
    Although they fixed this particular bug, I never discovered if the team
    or the customer (as the AA call logging team would used the OSLAN) 
    encountered others, as I had managed to extracate myself from the project.
    
    I also led the team (all one of him) that developed the in van mobile
    communications system. I remember we both scratched our heads long and
    hard trying to figure out why they designed it the way they did, but
    they were the customer and so we delivered to spec. To this day I often
    wonder if it really worked.
    
    If anyone is unlucky enough to have to service the Ramteks, the code
    used to drive them is mine; unless they got wise and replaced it. The  
    driver is written in COBOL (yep) and ran like a pig. They refused to
    let me write it (the driver) in assembler or anything faster.
    
    Angus
    Non AA or RAC member.
                                                            

    
    I have only had to call the AA once, it was a January night a few
    degrees below zero. There was a problem with my brake servo which 
    locked up my front wheels, my wife was the only card holder at the time
    and wasn't in the car, I called my wife who in turn called the AA.
    It turned out the membership was 1 week out of date but the person
    who recieved the call sent a Relay van out anyway. Within � an hour
    the van arrived, the car was towed to the garage of my choice and I was
    taken home.
    
    We immediately signed up for another year.
                                              

    Only called on the RAC once and they refused to turn out.
    
    My fault really, I was on a mobile (and able to give an accurate
    description of where I was) and not on a real phone. Also, the
    attitude of the switchboard was one of having found a reason to
    refuse service and being satisfied, not of wanting to help a member
    in distress.
    
    In then end I worked on the car myself for 1.5 hours in the rain
    and fixed the fault. I'd never give them another penny.
    
    Now though, I get 4 years free recovery anywhere in Europe with my
    new car so I don't need them.
    
    	John O'Connor

    �My fault really, I was on a mobile 
    
    Are you saying  that the RAC doesn't respond if you are using a mobile?
    
    I can't believe that.
    
    Royston

        The AA have a specific free phone mobile number (or at least 
        they did when I was a member).
        
        Simon

�    Are you saying  that the RAC doesn't respond if you are using a mobile?
    
    As I was on a mobile, I gave my description as "on such and such a road
    2 miles south of the junction with some other road"
    
    The RAC attitude was that this wasn't a _placename_ and to get service
    I had to leave my car (containing around two grands worth of computer
    kit) and walk in the rain and dark to look for a house with a real
    phone so that I could call them from a real placename.
    
    I can understand concern about being given misleading location info but
    even so, the whole attitude was that they were not going to turn out
    and that was that. I guess it's a bit like insurance, offer lower
    premiums but try hard to avoid paying claims.
    
    I suggested that they picked up a map and looked at that and found the
    nearest official RAC placename but they said that they had no maps.
    
    John

    
    .114 must've been unlucky, I've called the RAC from a mobile with no
    problems...
    
    Sandi
    

    RE .114 I agree you were unlucky
    The RAC came out for me two weeks ago. Called from mobile, for a car
    that wasn't mine, 45 minute response. Excellent service. 
    
    John

    .100
    see notes 2311
    
    Same q asked.
    
     Tony.

    Whats the deal with the service the AA was offering a while back where
    they supply you with a type of mobile phone which you can cantact them
    directly.
    
    I'm organising a mobile phone for my wife for use in emergencies and
    remembered this AA deal.
    
    Could someone post a general enquiry no. for the AA. I've skimmed
    through all these replies but can't see one.
    
    Thanks
    
    Royston

    General info  0345 500600.
    
    As a general point I would have thought that one of the 29.99 phones
    which now seem easily available would be a better bet as you can take a
    low tariff and then call anyone in an emergency. Do you mind 50p a call
    or whatever if it is needed.
    
    I suspect that the very low price phones are a ruse by the service
    providers to get us all hooked on analogue mobiles and then they can
    migrate us all to digital at a future date.
    
    Andrew

    The thing that put me off mobiles is the line rental.
    
    The norm appears to be around �15 / month but I have seen it as low
    as �9.99.
    
    Thanks for the AA no. I'll phone them and find out. I'll post the
    results.
    
    Royston
    
    

    Have you tried going into Dixons and asking for your free copy of 
    What Mobile ?
    It contains reviews on Phones and Tariffs.
    
    Under the emergency section Call Comunicatios and the RAC both offer
    Cellnet's Lifetime for peace of mind 9.99 per month, 80p / min talk
    (RAC on 0800-115522)(call coms on 0800-238238)
    
    For a economy model. CellCom offer Lifetime94 14.98 / month 41p peak,
    18p off peak  (contact 081-732-8000)
    
    Dave D.
    

    I called the AA about their 'Call Safe' mobile phone service, about a
    year and a half ago. At that time
    
    - The cost of the phone was phenominal, something like �150+. The sales
      type I talked to was embarressed about the high cost; particularly
      as Dixons was selling mobile phones fro around the �50 mark at the
      time.
    - Then there was the monthly line rent. I can't remember the exact cost
      but something over �20 a month rings a bell.
    - Finally, the gotcha. You could only ring the emergency services on
      this phone, no one else; and I don't think you could receive in
      coming calls either.
    
    I was always surprised why, after the fanfare of the lauch of this
    service, things went very quiet, very quickly. Two minutes talking to
    the sales type and I knew why. Things may hvae changed in the
    intervening years, then again...
    
    Angus

    The company 'Peoples Phone' have been running Ads in the last couple of
    weeks advertising a sale in their stores (theres one in Reading
    somewhere).  Using the voucher in the ad it was possible to pick up
    some v cheap phones, as little as 25 quid for a simple one, or 39 quid
    for that little Sony beastie.  I'm not sure about which tariffs you had
    to use, but it may be worth tracking them down.
    
    Mikef 

re.123:

Peoples Phone do quite sophisticated phones from �24.99 including connection.
The Low User rate starts at 12.97 per month but I think you also have to take
the itemised billing at �1.50 a month making �14.47. There are other extras like
maintenance service and insurance.

Dave.

    Thanks for the info. I have now got the latest info from the AA
    about call-safe.
    
    It is �120 to buy with �26 quarterly line rental. You can only
    use to contact the emergency services.
    
    I have seen adverts for mobile phone with at little as �7.50 & 8.50
    per month line rental.
    
    Obviously a mobile is more flexible but it worries me that it will be
    used unnecessarily and run up bloody high bills.
    
    Royston

I would second .121's suggestion of getting a copy of What Mobile? from
your local Dixons or Curry's, or even buying one of the other monthly
Cellphone mags from your local newsagent.

There are many things to think about besides the initial cost of the
phone and the monthly rental. The fact is that a phone _really_ costs
from a couple of hundred to several hundred (for GSM) pounds, and
the reason why you can buy then for a couple of quid is because the
shop that sells you the phone will get the money back by the airtime
that you MUST subscribe to - i.e. they _expect_ to make a few hundred
quid in the first year!!!

Answering services, itemised bills, insurance, non-direct-debit mandate
surcharges, can all add to the monthly cost. If your phone gets lost
or stolen YOU WILL STILL HAVE TO PAY THE MONTHLY RENTAL, and you will
then have to fork out THE FULL PRICE (�n00) for a replacement!

Also, think carefully about what you consider to be "emergency" use.
Is it for when the car breaks down in the middle of the night, or for
sorting out minor inconveniences - it may be very tempting to phone
in to get you to video Coronation Street, and bang goes one minutes
call charges (50p, a quid or whatever). Some contracts charge you
airtime from the moment you dial the number (not when the other end
answers) so bills can easily mount up.

Also, think about where you want phone coverage. Analogue Cellnet and
Vodaphone are pretty much UK-wide, but Orange is only 70-odd% and
Mercury One-2-One 40%. Then again, if you are in a Mercury area then
it is FREE off-peak local calls (eg. the whole of the inside of the M25).

Digital phones (GSM and PCN) have SIM cards which render the phone
totally unusable if stolen (unlike analogue), and can't be listened
to on scanners, so offer better security.

There is a lot to think about, and you are entering into a year or
so contract, during which your useage of the phone may well change,
so it is well worthwhile getting it right in the first place!


mb

    Thanks Martin for your very informed reply.
    
    Re Corrie Street. You've hit the nail on the head there (except its
    Eastenders in our house :-) ).
    
    Royston

Just for you info, i went Orange just before Xmas!

I bought the Nokia phone, recently reduced from �300 to �200, which
has 180 memories, 18-hour slimline battery, 4-line LCD display (backlit
along with the buttons) mini-SIM, two-line capability, easy menu-driven
options by "soft-keys" and loads of other fancy features. It is smaller
than the NEC P4 in size.

I use the Orange15 service, which costs �17-63 per month and includes
15 minutes of airtime. Calls are billed BY THE SECOND, so you can make
an awful lot of calls before using up your quota (after all, mobiles are
NOT normally used for long conversations).

An answering service is provided at no extra monthly charge, and you
don't have to pay for other people to store message (unlike some tarrifs)
and to listen to messages only costs 7p per minute (have you seen the price
of some of the other companies - phew!). Itemised billing is a free option,
and there is no extra charge for non-direct-debit payments. My phone also
includes free insurance for the first year, and warranty is for two years.

Calls (on Orange15) cost 25p peak and 15p off-peak (remember, however, that
this is only charged by the second, and only once my 15 minutes are up),
and calls from BT lines to the phone are only 13p/7p per minute.

For a quid or so extra per month you can also have a text messaging
service, making your phone act like a pager as well (storing up to
5*160 character messages in the phone itself).

The best bit was the hassle-free purchase. Pop into Dixons, hand over
your dosh and walk away with the phone (no paperwork to sign yet). Once
at home, plug the phone in to charge it and dial 150 (for free). Give
your details (and pass a credit check) and your phone is activated over
the air - and you are then part of the network. Documentation is very
clear, and you even get an audio cassette to talk you through the process.

If you want to be a real poser, for between �50 and �300 quid one-off
payment you can choose you own phone number (if available), and if you
run a business you can choose a number using your normal local STD code.

The only thing that made me nervous about Orange was network coverage,
but over Christmas when i drove up the M6 from Brum to Clitheroe, i only
lost the signal a couple of times - not bad for a network only 8 months
old! Digital phone quality is excellent, and clear conversations are
possible even in very weak signal areas (no hisses). Check coverage maps
for your area.

Customer service is excellent, and when you call they answer you by
name.


Now if only DEC could be as easy to deal with ......

8-)


mb

    .128�Calls (on Orange15) cost 25p peak and 15p off-peak (remember, however, that
    .128�this is only charged by the second, and only once my 15 minutes are up),
    
      Martin, are you aware that while you can't automatically tell how
    much of your 15 mins you've used, I'm told that Customer Services
    (150?) can tell you that info, so a call to them just before the end of
    the month might be worth it!  I've heard of a few people who do this,
    btw.

    FYI
    
    there is a bit of a topic in the GB conference on Phones.

    I've just had my renewal from National Breakdown who now apparently
    rejoice in the name Green Flag national breakdown.
    
    At first I thought I had junk mail from a new breakdown company
    and nearly binned it until I saw my car details and the renewal date.
    
    I could find no discussion or indication that it was from National
    Breakdown as they now use completely different logos.
    
    Whats the story here ? Have they been taken over or something ?
    
    Royston
                                      

I'm thinking of joining one of the breakdown services,
any up to date information on who's the best/cheapest/quickest
these days ?

Thanks,
Phil.

    This may not sound very helpful, but I would recommend getting the
    latest brochure from AA, RAC, Green Flag and any others. They each have
    a different range of packages, 1st year offers, motoring club
    affiliations etc so one person's ideal could be very different to
    another's.
    
    For example, if you think you can handle simple problems youself (or
    pay an extra charge if you call them out for it) there is a very cheap
    option from Green Flag (I think).
    
    I went for the RAC because they have an arrangemnt with the owner's
    club for the Minors and then adding the Peugeot cost very little.
    
    Dick

    Still not very helpful, but the RAC have a web page which contains  all
    their membership options and prices.  It's at http://www.rac.co.uk/

    I'm considering not renewing my membership with Green Flag 
    which I have taken out to cover my second car and motorcycle.
    
    I keep the vehicles regularly serviced and can handle simple repairs
    myself and have had recovery cover only for several years now and
    never used it. Its mainly for peace of mind.
    
    However, I was out with a mate on our bikes and his broke down.
    I phoned Green Flag on my policy (as he had no cover). As it wasn't
    my bike and I wasn't a pillion rider they would not come out unless
    I paid a call out fee plus so much per mile (I think this worked out to
    be 50 quid).
    
    This got me thinking that if I only needed a rescue once a year I would
    break even with the cost of the cover. Next year I may not renew but
    keep their number and pay on a 'per call' basis. Sods law will mean
    that I will experience many breakdowns !
    
    Royston