Conference 7.286::home_work

By brickface do you mean laying a wall of real brick in front of the cinder 
blocks, or do you mean one of the various versions of fake brick?  I can give 
some pointers on real brick, but I know nothing about the other stuff.

Paul

    I was originally considering the fake stuff because I felt laying
    actual brick would be to difficult for myself (I'm new at home 
    improvement) and too expensive to contract someone else out to
    lay the brick.
    
   re. 1 
    If you have some ideas on laying bricks, I would appreciate hearing
    about it.
    
    Steve
    

Brick laying, especially on a long straight wall like you are talking about, is 
not really very difficult.  It is, however, an awful lot of physical labor, 
just in moving the bricks around, mixing mortar, etc.  The one thing that would 
probably be your biggest problem would be windows and doors.  A real brick face 
is going to add at least 4" thickness to the walls, and I can't think of any 
way to deal with that other than taking out the windows, building the brick 
wall, reinstalling them, and then adding trim on the inside.  This might be 
more work than you bargained for.  It is fairly expensive also.  Bricks run 
about 30� apiece, and considering that their face is about 2"x8", that's about 
$2.70 a square foot.  Add in costs for mortar and call it $3.00.  For all that,
it's beautiful looking, and zero maintenance for years and years.

Basically, for the actual laying of the brick, you set up 2x4's at each end, 
marked for the top of each course of brick.  You then run a string between a 
couple of blocks, and set the blocks on the 2x4's so that the string is on the 
marks for the course you're doing.  Then as you lay each brick, you line up the 
top edge of the brick with the string.  Once you get into the swing of it, it 
goes very fast.  Depending on where you live, if you decide to go with real 
brick, I'd be willing to come over for a couple of hours and show you how to 
lay them.  Again, it's not difficult, but as with everything else, one hour of 
being shown various little tricks will cut down on your time considerably

Paul

    When installing bricks over a block wall don't they usually install
    metal strips every so often when building the block wall in the
    first place? These strips are used to secure the brick wall to the
    block wall. I would think that if the block wall was already installed
    without these you would run into problems putting up a real brick
    face.
    
    As a suggestion if you do put up real brick yourself, start with
    the back of the house until you get the hang of it. You can always
    hide the mistakes with shrubs.
    
    Nick

    re .4 - I'd imagine that it would still be possible to forestall
    problems adding the real brick face, by mortaring the back of the
    face to the blocks or something, but I wouldn't know for sure what
    would be best.
    
    as far as fake brick face is concerned, it shouldn't be much of
    a big deal.  I once had a summer job applying a fake stone face,
    the only difference I would expect would be that the bricks are
    regular rather than irregular shapes.  Use Paul's recommendation
    for alignment and that would be easy.  Basically you make a mortar
    mix that is used to coat the facing wall and apply the facing to
    it, then after it sets you'll probably want to grout to get a nice
    tidy neat joint.
    
    I don't see why the use of real brick would be much different, the
    lack of the anchor strips mentioned in .4 would require mortaring
    to the back wall and the thickness of real brick would require
    mortaring the bricks to each other - that's the one part that the
    fake facing would save.  Doing a wall with the anchor strips, I
    think the strips are spaced to align with brick joints and thus
    eliminate the need to mortar to the back wall in such a case.
    
    Masonry isn't a problem, just hard work...

For anchor strips, you could use exactly the same strips, but you'd have to 
attach them to the cinder block.  Masonry nails would work, but I'm not sure 
how well they'd hold in the cinder block.  There are also 'Tap-Con' screws, 
which could be applied with a screw gun or drill pretty easily, and would hold 
well.  The anchor strips shouldn't be much of a problem.  But I still don't 
know how I'd deal with the windows without ripping them out.  Did you want to 
replace the windows too? :^)

Paul

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 Couldn't resist.

My impression of fake brick facing is that it is just that, cheap fake brick
facing...  I don't have much confidance in it, but I don't really know much
about it...

With the problem of the brick adding another 4 inches to the wall thickness, why
can't you take stone window 'sill's and surround the window with them and bring
the sills out to the edge of the brick?

Jim. 

    If you build a (real) brick facing wall, it's going to be pretty
    heavy...what are you going to do about a foundation for it to sit
    on?

    
    
    Brick face dosn't need a foundation. Steel mesh is first applied
    then layers of morter is applied, the final layer being the brick
    face. This is the one thing I don't like about brick facing. It
    actually pulls on the walls. 
    
    Brick on the other hand has it's own foundation. The brick is really
    it's own wall. When putting in a brick wall a foundation must be
    laid about 4 feet to go below the frost line.

I was thinking of that while I was writing my note, but I forgot to include it.

Putting on real bricks is going to be a lot of work and money, but you know 
when you're done you won't have to worry about it for the rest of your life.
Can you say that about the fake brickface?

Paul

    There is a "fake" brick that is looks and feels like real brick
    - because it is real brick (in 1/2" slices).  It's applied like
    the plastic fake bricks, with a mastic that looks like mortar, or
    you can put it on over steel mesh with real mortar.
    
    I used it inside, above the kitchen countertops, and am very happy
    with the appearance of it.  The same techniques are valid for exterior
    application as well.
    
    -db

    I live in a brick building which has a white chalk-like material
    covering the outside walls.  What is this and how can it be removed?

    Thanks

    
    
      How thick is it? 1/6th inch or 1 inch type thickness?

                     Chris H
    

My guess would be its real old paint or some kind of whitewash.  If so and you
really want to remove it, the only way may be sandblasting.  I've always assumed
that would be big $$$'s, but never had any reason to price it.

Anyone ever do it?

-mark

    Is it something that has been applied to the brick, or is it something
    coming out of the brick itself?  Sometimes a powdery white substance
    will leach out of bricks and collect on the surface.  I don't know
    if there is any cure for it; brushing it off and applying a silicone
    sealer might help.  In general, I think people call it "character"
    and "part of the charm of old brick" and ignore it.
    
    If it's something that's been applied to the brick, you may have
    problems.  Sandblasting will take it off, but sandblasting will
    also take off the surface glaze on the brick and make them more
    prone to absorbing moisture and weathering.  
    

    RE MY QUESTION
    
    Thanks for the responses, sorry for the delay in responding.
    
    The white powdery stuff on the brick was not painted on.  In fact
    it appears quite thin and seems to change with the seasons (I don't
    recall it being this bad when I moved in 6 months ago).
    
    Never tried cleaning it as it's high on the outside wall (brick building).

    While I think I'll leave it alone for now, I was wondering if oozing
    brick is a common thing.  Should it happen on a 5 yr old building?
    
    Thanks
    Gary

  The white stuff on brick is called (are you ready?) effervescence and occurs
  as a result of a chemical reaction between the bricks and the mortar.  It
  is fairly common and does not affect the strength of the wall.  I'll see
  if the guy who told me this has any idea about how to clean it off...

  JP

    We have the same chalky stuff on our brick chimney - on 5 or 6 rows of
    brick, that's all.  Whenever I brush it off, the brick crumbles off
    with it.  I'm afraid some day the whole chimney is going to collapse.
    Isn't there anything that can be done to counteract this reaction, if
    that's what it is?  Or maybe we have a different problem. 
    
    Sheila

    I just had thought as to what this might be.  With all the talk
    about acid rain, it is possible that the substance you are seeing
    is the result of the acid content of the rain and the alkali content
    of the bricks and mortar.
    
    This is probably similar to the substance that most everyone has
    seen on the top of the battery in their car.  (Which happens to
    be a reaction with the battery acid.)
    
    Sound reasonable?
    
    - Mark

    re: .7 - I don't think in the case of our chimney that it could
    be acid rain because the part of the chimney that's affected is
    in the porch, and only 5 or 6 rows of brick are chalky and crumbling.
    The rest are OK.  I think it has to have to have something to do
    with the brick itself.

    Hmmm, this rings a bell. As stated before, this stuff is a result
    of a chemical reaction with water vapor in the air and the minerals
    in the brick. I remember seeing a show back some time ago where
    they demonstrated how you can remove this stuff with muriateic acid.
    You can get muriatic acid at the local drugstore, I believe. It
    comes in a weak soultion. Use it with a good stiff bristled brush.
    You should also wear rubber gloves while doing this. It is kind
    of slow, but it works. It seems like they also sealed the brick,
    but I can't remember how.
    
    Dan

  Re: .8

  It doesn't sound as though you've got the condition I referred to as
  "effervescence" a few notes back.  I asked my friend in construction
  about it again and he said that "it isn't a structural problem and
  it usually goes away."  

  Re: .9

  I've used muriatic acid on bricks (to clean mortar off) but I never
  noticed any sealing effect.  If the bricks in question are crumbling,
  I don't think muriatic acid would be such a good idea.

  JP

    Thanks for all the responses.  I'll try the acid when it stops raining
    (found new chalk area on patio).
    
    One question I had was on brick sealing.  What is it and why would
    you want to do it?
    
    Gary
    

    re:.11
    
    I don't know what kind of sealer you use on brick, but I do know
    that my new chimney no longer leaks since the mason sealed the
    bricks.  Bricks are pretty porous.
    
    Bill

    
    		My woodstove hearth is constructed of brick
    	with a flagstone base.  I would like to clean both the
    	brick and flagstone.
    
    		What's the best way to get this done??
    
    
    	Thanks in advance.
    
    
    

    	A common way of cleaning brick is to use Muriatic Acid. 
    	The acid will remove heavy items like paint. Brick
    	layers use it to clean the brick after they finish
    	installing it. It can also be used to clean Mastic
    	off of ceramic tile.
    
    	I am not familiar with methods of cleaning flagstone.
    		                                              
        I will ask a friend who is a mason.
                              
    
    

    re: .1
    
    Be really carful with muriatic acid.  It is VERY strong, and extremely
    painful if it gets under your fingernails or in a cut.  Wear the
    right kind of gloves when you use it (it will dissolve some kinds
    of rubber gloves) and take EXTREME care of splashing it in your
    eyes.
    
    Clay

    Can muriatic acid be used on slate?  I slated my front entrance
    several months ago and have never gotten *all* the grout off the
    slate tiles ...  It looks acceptable, but not perfect.
    
    - Chris
    

    Re: .3
    I'm quite sure you can.  Muriatic acid (it's really a cheap grade
    of hydrochloric acid) attacks calcium/limestone, which is why it
    takes off mortar and such things, but it shouldn't bother other
    kinds of rock.

    Muriatic acid also works very well taking heavy rust off iron.
    It comes right off just by pouring it over the iron.  But you
    have to be sure to rinse it off very well, because it will continue
    to eat into the iron, if you don't.
    

    Could somebody that's used this stuff on tile please explain the
    procedure?  How do you apply it?  What will it do to the grout between
    the tile if it comes in contact?  What do you rinse with?  I've got
    some tile that I'd like to clean but don't want to reck them doing it.

    Phil

    I used it to clean adhesive off the ceramic tiles I put down in
    the bathroom. Basically, what I did was to pour some on a rag 
    and rub.  I guess I was trying to use more elbow grease and less
    acid.  After it was clean, I washed it down with plain old water.
    I didn't find it that difficult to use. I don't think I even wore
    any gloves. But I was in the bathroom and probably just washed
    my hands often.
    
    I did notice that it reacts when it comes in contact with the 
    grout, but it did not harm it in any way noticable.  I think
    that if you let it stand for any length of time it might cause
    some damage.  But, if your cleaning you will probably clean
    the acid up right away.
    
    If you want to use it on a rough surface like brick, a stiff
    cleaning brush dunked in a solution of 50-50 (water/acid) works
    good.
    
    
    Steve

    Help !
    I'm a _real_ novice at home improvements, but now that I finally
    own a place it's time I got into it a bit more ( I guess ).
    
    I have an exposed brick wall in my living room; I like it that way.
    However, the cement in lots of places has come loose, leaving gaps
    which are unsightly. I can get cement but it is a different color than 
    what is there now. The local hardware store isn't much help --
    	("this is all that what we've got ..")
    
    What can I do to get the right color in the cement ?
    
    Any 'tricks' other than being really careful, so that the cement
    goes in the cracks and doesn't smear the bricks ?
     
    When done, I want to put some sort of sealant over the entire wall
    (help stop it making the floor so dusty) -- any advice on that would 
    be welcome too.     ( e.g. brush vs. roller .... )

    	Thanks.   /Jeff.

    
    
    	First off it is probably not cement between the bricks, but
    mortar.  The process of repairing the mortar is called repointing.
    Perhaps the local library has some books on the subject.  I seem to 
    remember an Old Home Journal article on the subject, I'll check when 
    I get home.  I think that all mortar is the same color, but the existing
    mortar has probably darkened with age.
    	You can clean the brick wall with a stiff floor brush and muratic
    acid.  As usual wear protective gear.  After it is cleaned and
    repointed put on a coat of Thompson's Water Seal.  They cover the
    bricks in the Mill with the same stuff.  You can just brush it on.

    
    
    					=Ralph=

    	I've never used it, but from what I understand there are two
    types of mortar LIGHT & DARK. The two are very diffrent in color
    not just a slight shade. Check with a good lumber yard or masonary 
    supply store. 
    	Ditto the get a book idea.  
    

    
    
    	Mortar is made darker by adding a powder called SP? (lamplite).
    This can be bought at most lumber stores or you can just crush up
    some charcol from your grill to make darker.
    
    	-Steve-
    

    Go to the nearest Masonary Suuply store and tell them your problem.
    There is a powder you can buy that you mix in with the mortar to
    change the color. It is often used when installing flagstone patios.
    

    You probably don't want to use acids without rubber gloves - some
    acids can be absorbed through the skin, and do very bad things once
    it's in there. Did anyone else get these little "Digital chemical
    safety handbooks"? Good information in there.
    -Tom R. - who-wears-his-gloves-now-but-used-pretty-nasty-stuff-
    without-them-in-his-ignorant-younger-days

    What damage does ivy do to brick exterior walls?  I am trying to
    decide whether or not to remove it from my house.  Also, How do
    you know when brick needs to be repointed?
    
    --Pete.
    

    I have heard that ivy does damage brick.  How much, I'm not sure,
    or whether it's something that one reasonably needs to worry
    about or if it can be ignored.  A nice ivy-covered brick wall
    sure looks nice.  I do notice that there are a lot of ivy-covered
    college buildings around and they don't seem too worried about it.
    Here's a theory for you: the protection against weathering afforded
    by the ivy more than offsets the damage that it causes, so it's
    a net gain to have the ivy.  I have *no* idea if that is true or
    not, but maybe it's a way to rationalize not removing it! :-)
    
    Brick needs to be repointed when the mortar washout is "noticable".
    As long as the mortar looks to be in good shape, there's no problem.
    At least, that's how I would judge it.

>    What damage does ivy do to brick exterior walls?  I am trying to
>    decide whether or not to remove it from my house. 

    Ivy climbs the walls via thousands of tiny tentacles that grab into the 
brick and cement. These tentacles will eventually break up the mortar and 
create problems. Don't know how long it takes but I would guess 20 years of 
Ivy might be a problem.

    	Vic

    	Not all Ivy is alike.  Harvard is covered in English Ivy which has
    little tentacles that work their way into the mortar and loosen
    it.  There was some concern about the damage, and Harvard was removing
    some of the Ivy.  Cornell is covered in American Ivy which has little
    suction cups that stick it to the walls without any damage.
    
    					=Ralph=

    What is the easiest way to determine what kind of ivy I have?? 
    Do I take a leaf or something and compare it in some plant 
    book?
    
    

    I'm considering using a glass block wall as an interior divider
    in my bathroom.  It would be about 3x3 feet and would divide
    the shower end of the tub from the rest of the room.
    
    1.	Do glass blocks exist that are finshed on one and/or two edges?
    	I'd like to avoid having to put any kind of trim around the
    	exposed edges, although it could be done with wood if required.
    
    2.	What kind of "foundation" do I need?  My current plan is to
    	first add another stringer under the floor, to stiffen up
    	just that section of floor to minimize flexing, and then to
    	put a 4x4 at the top of the regular part of the wall where the
    	glass blocks will sit.
    
    3.  Any ideas about how to fasten the shower pipe to the glass blocks?
    	Two possibilities I'm considering now are either drilling a
    	couple of holes in the glass and using expansion plugs, or possibly
    	some kind of adhesive.
    
    Any suggestions welcome.  Sketch follows.

    Doug.
    
    

    End view of tub:
    
        
   |
   |
   |------------------
   |                 |
   |        o <------|------------  shower head fastened to block by ?
   |        |        |
   |        | <------|------------  shower pipe external to blocks
   |        |        |
   |        |        |
   |        |        |
   |        |        |<-----------  glass block wall
   |        |        |
   |        |        |
    ------------------
                     |<-----------  4x4 header to support blocks
    ------------------
                     |    
      regular 2x4    |    
      wall at end    |    
      of tub         |    
                     |    
    --------------------------------------  existing floor
    
           additional joist here
    

    This exact project was discussed in detail in the November/December
    issue of The Family Handyman.  I'll look it up and see how they
    solved it.
    
    Elaine
    

    How do they affix those big smooth stone blocks to the facade of
    an office (or other big) building?  Are there holes drilled in the
    back and pins or wires glued in?  Or some sort of masonry screw?
    
    A related question - Brickwork on buildings seems to be "tied" to
    the iron framework every few rows.  Do they plan where the space
    between the bricks will fall so they can do this or just hope for
    a happy coincidence?  Thanks.
    
       Mitch

    I do not know the answer to the first question.
    
    As to the other, brick veneer is "tied" to the structure every so
    often.  They nail metal strips to the building and when laying the
    brick veneer, they bend them so that they will lie flat on top of
    brick.  The weight of the wall keeps the metal strip from pulling out.
    Because the strips are flexible, they can be bent up or down a inch or
    so that they will meet a row of bricks.  The space is random from what
    I can tell by watching then lay brick. 

    re .1:  I've seen brick-over-cinderblock construction in which they
    build the metal strips into the inner cinderblock wall, protruding to
    tie into the outer brick wall later.

    re .0, re affixing large stone blocks to buildings:
    
    There was an article in Smithsonian magazine within the past six months
    that described this process.  The article was mostly about
    architectural uses of stone, with side trips into quarrying and
    construction details.  Unfortunately, I've forgotten the details
    and discarded the magazine.

Some "rock" walled buildings might be fake stuff, like, say, New England
Brickmaster.  I guess they can look pretty good from a (how much?) distance.  
You may want to check them out for references.

If you want real rock, try the Yellow Pages.  When I looked for NEB (above) -
I found them under "Brick-Clay-Common & Face" - Tewksbury, (617)-851-5100
this_is_not_an_ad_etc - I also looked under "Mason Contractors" and "Mason
Contractors' Equipment & Supplies".  I'm sure someone listed there could answer
your questions about real rocks.

This topic seems appropriate for my problem.

Our house has a small section of brick wall (about 3' wide) to the side of
the garage, that is pulling/pulled away from the framing.  The sellers are
contractually obligated to make it right.  I want to fix this problem with
two considerations:  I want to have it repaired correctly, and I want to 
ensure that the repairs aren't going to cause the repaired section to look
different (or too different) from the rest of the brick.

I've received two different suggestions that appear to contradict each other.

One is to rebuild the unsound portion of the wall.  This option would, unless
the old brick is reused, result in a cosmetically different look, or so I'm
told.  Can the old brick be reused, or can new brick be found to match the
old brick's appearance?

The other option is to seal the existing brick, and let it go at that.  The
seller is suggesting that approach, and I'm afraid I've ceased to trust him,
so I'm immediately suspicious that approach is simply an expedient and less
expensive shortcut.  His argument is that rebuilding the brick wall will
cause a different appearance and thus hurt the aesthetic value of the house.

I'd appreciate the opinions of any masonry experts out there.

Thanks.

/dan

How can the brick wall pull away if it is properly tied in?  There are
supposed to be metal straps that are nailed onto the wall behind the
bricks, and then mortared into the rows as the bricks are laid.  I don't
have experience with this, I just read about it in Journal of Light
Construction.  They said that the straps frequently rust through because
they were too light gauge and/or too much water gets behind the wall.
If that is what has happened, I would think relaying the brick is your
only alternative.  Has it pulled away enough to shine a light in behind
the bricks and see?

Or look on the bright side :-)  If this section is pulling away because it
was installed properly, the whole thing might need to be replaced, unless 
you want to deal with the problem again in later years.  But sometimes
work like that should get put off until it has to be done.  Maybe you
could get a rebate equal to the cost of replacing that section, and
replace more of it later if/when more fails?  Just a thought.  

	Luck,
	Larry

PS -- If the brick is pulling away, not just flaking off, how would
sealing it help?  Am I not understanding the problem?

re: -.1

>How can the brick wall pull away if it is properly tied in?  There are
...
>Construction.  They said that the straps frequently rust through because
>they were too light gauge and/or too much water gets behind the wall.
>If that is what has happened, I would think relaying the brick is your
>only alternative.  Has it pulled away enough to shine a light in behind
>the bricks and see?
There was a gap where the brick met the garage door frame.  I'm sure water got
in and rusted the connective metal.  


>PS -- If the brick is pulling away, not just flaking off, how would
>sealing it help?  Am I not understanding the problem?

I didn't think sealing would help -- but then I don't know anything about
masonry.  That's why I thought I'd ask here.  The only advantage to sealing
would be preserving the uniform appearance of the brick and mortar.  I've
called a mason and will report here on his suggested course of action.  I'm
hoping that he can reuse the old brick and doctor up his mortar/cement to
resemble the existing stuff.

Thanks for your thoughts.

/dan