Conference 7.286::home_work

  	OK noters, time to confess.  What is the longest amount of time
    you have spent on an 'easy' 1 hour project.
	This weekend I thought that I would replace the door leading
    out of my cellar to the bulkhead.  I saw that Grossmans bargain
    center had steel replacement doors on sale for $100 and figured
    it would take about 1-2 hours.  Boy was I wrong.
    	The problem started when I was removing the molding from around
    the old door.  The frame was rotted.  Oh well take the prybar and
    pull down all the wood to the cement opening.  A quick trip to the
    lumber yard and I would be all set.  Wrong again, it seems that
    I forgot to measure the height of the door accurately.  After all
    doors have a standard height, right?  Well it seems that put a 1
    inch skim over the cellar floor.  The person just took the old door
    and shaved an inch off of the bottom.  Well I was in too far to
    turn back now.  I grabbed my hammer, chisel and sledge and did my
    'escape from Alcatraz' imitation.  I poured concrete to the correct
    height and let it set.  The door did take only 1 hour to install,
    after I had spent 10 hours preping the opening.  End result: a nice
    steel cellar door, some smashed fingers and a new respect for taking
    accurate dimentions.
    	Surely I am not alone in miscalculating the amount of time.
    My previous record was spending two and a half days installing a
    Sears steel shed that I thought would take 4 hours.  Time to 'fess
    up.  What is your best story?

    	I had to replace a broken threshold so I thought I'd do it
    one saturday. I tore off the old threshold and found a rotted
    kick plate and termites in the subflooring next to the threshold.
    I tore off the kick plate and found a rotted header. I had to take
    off some shingles so I could cut out a section of the header.
    After cutting out a section of the header I found that some of
    the sill had rotted and been eaten so I cut out a section of the
    sill. Also some of the door jams had been eaten so I carfully
    cut out the rotted pieces, but first I had to take off more 
    shingles to get at them. After a couple of weekends of partialy
    disassembling my house I started puting it back together when
    I finaly got to placing the threshold back in place I discovered
    that the one I bought was too narrow. I brought it back to where
    I got it and they didn't have the one I needed so I had to wait
    untill it came in. two weeks later I finaly got it and spent
    that whole weekend puting everything back together including
    shingles. The next saturday I painted the shingles.
    	I admit that I don't work all that fast but this was the
    longest quick job I ever did.

    
    It would be easier for me to explain the projects which I actually
    finished when I thought I would !!
                                    
    My latest "quickie" was a few weeks ago when I decided to do some
    PM on my Sunfish sailboat. A quick wash and wax. In the words of
    Noah (a la Bill Cosby), RIGHT!
    
    First discover that the hull is full of water. Uh oh, a few hairline
    cracks in the hull which need patching. To the marina for a fiberglass
    patch kit. Patch one day, let sit overnight, sand the next. Now
    back to wash and wax. 
    
    My bother then informed me that he noticed that there had been water
    leaking into the cockpit through the fitting used to siphon out
    water while under sail. No problem, unscrew it and apply some silicone.
    Unfortunately the guy before me had never removed it and seven years
    of sail water use had frozen it on.  Back to the marina to buy another,
    assuming I would just cut off the original. New one cost $45!!
    (probably $5 to make). Dammed if I'll pay that. Back to work on
    removing the old one. One can of WD40, lots of agrivation, and one
    day later we got it free. But now I need a new nut (we stripped
    it getting it off) to hold it on. It's Sunday evening and nothing is open.
    
    I finally did the wash and wax the next day, took another trip to
    the hardware store for the nut (me at this point) and was finally
    sailing that afternoon.
    
    Why does it seem like this is the typical project for me??!!!
    
    								Mark
    
            

    	I have a story of the opposite which is a job I put a whole
    day aside for took me only an hour or so.  I installed about 70
    feet of fence.  I figured it would take me all day with digging
    the post holes and all but no.  I rented a hole digger for 5 bucks
    and it was a breeze.  I was lucky to have soft earth and no rocks
    or roots to contend with.
    
    	Most of my horror stories around the "quick-fix" myth are about
    cars.  Like the tune-up that blew an engine, ect.
    
    						Jorge'

    Mine was an "easy, 1 weekend project".  I bought my first house in
    January, and knew then that I needed to replace the deck.  When my
    house mate started breaking through the decking, it was obviously time
    to get the project started.  A friend of mine explained that building a
    deck was an excellent first project since it was "an easy, one weekend
    project.  Just what you need to get a taste for home maintenance."
    
    I decided to do this right, and went to Nashua city hall to find out
    about getting a building permit.  They told me that I needed
    (relatively) detailed plans of the deck I planned to build (probably a
    good thing to do anyway, but I hadn't done them yet) and told me about
    things like footings going 4 feet deep, railing balusters 6" apart,
    steps with a rise of 8" and the zoning laws. Apparently you can't build
    within 30 feet of the property line.  Since the back of the house is 32
    feet from the property line, this didn't leave much room for a deck.
    The old deck wasn't on the plot plans that were on file, so the old
    deck was illegal.  It would be OK though, as long as the top surface of
    my deck was less than 4 feet from the ground, and I was at least
    10' from the property line.
    
    The first *real* shock was when we pulled off the old deck.  It has
    been rotting, and had attracted carpenter ants.  They had started
    munching on the joist header. At this point I was asking myself why I
    had bothered to buy a house.  If I was renting, I could simply call the
    landlord and have him (or her) get it fixed. 
    
    We spent that first weekend chopping out the rotted wood and chopping
    up the old deck.  Thank god that the Nashua garbage men will take away
    bundles of wood, since I left them plenty.  Fortuneately, the ants
    hadn't gotten beyond the joist header.  I had an exterminator check
    out the results, and he told me that the only reason he could recommend
    spraying would be to make a profit!  (I nearly fell over from shock
    at this)
    
    I then received my building permit, and spent Thursday afternoon
    fighting with the Granite State, armed with a power auger.  After 4
    hours, I and a friend had dug 2 holes down to the required 4 feet, and
    one to 3�.  I gave up on the third one after getting nowhere on a *big*
    rock.  I left a pleading note for the building inspector, and was
    pleasently surprised that my holes passed inspection. 
    
    Saturday, I rented a cement mixer from Taylor Rental, and poured
    my footings.  Unfortuneately, the cement mixer wasn't mounted properly,
    and would rotate about 3/4 of the way, and then stop with nasty
    grinding noises until somebody gave it a little help.  This only
    happened when it was full, of course.
    
    Monday an enormous amount of pressure treated wood was delivered, and I
    started to build my new deck.  It would have been alot simpler if I had
    been willing to accept a simple deck surface, but I had delusions of
    grandure.  The pattern I wanted to build was sort of like this: 
    
                                                        \
                                                      \  \
                   /------------------------------\ \  \  \
                  / \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/ / / / / / / / \ \  \
                 / \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \  / / / / / / / / \ \
                / \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/ / / / / / / / / \
               | \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \  / / / / / / / / / |
               |\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/ / / / / / / / / /|
               | \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/\/ / / / / / / / / |
               |\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/  \/ / / / / / / / /|
               | \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/ /\ \/ / / / / / / / |
               |\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \/ /  \ \/ / / / / / / /|
               |/ / / / / / / /\ \  / /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \|
               | / / / / / / / /\ \/ /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
               |/ / / / / / / / /\  /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \|
               | / / / / / / / / /\/\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
               |/ / / / / / / / / /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \|
               | / / / / / / / / /  \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
               |/ / / / / / / / / /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \|
               | / / / / / / / / /  \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ |
               |/ / / / / / / / / /\ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \ \|
    
    Needless to say, cutting all of those angles took forever.  The
    deck is just about finished now.  I still have to move some dirt
    under the left corner of the deck, since it's 4', 2" above grade,
    and then get it inspected.  Considering that I had no idea what
    I was doing, it came out amazingly well.  But I'd never do it again...
    
    	- Barry

    My intermediate project began in May - in time to get in tune with
    all the remodeling and repairing going on in the home industry.
      We decided to build a garage - a simple two car garage to house
    our cars and garden equipment.  Since we have over a half acre of
    land, we THOUGHT that it would be a simple project from start to
    finish.  Think again......
         We had an architect alter some garage plans for us to meet
    our specific needs and had all the necessary blueprints drawn up
    in April.  We also had our property surveyed (by a certified surveyor)
    and checked into zoning laws for the town.  Of course, the area
    that the garage was to be set was 8 feet from the property line
    and our town  requires 15 feet setback from any property line. 
    We decided to apply for a variance to the rule and submitted all
    of the necessary paperwork (and $$$$) to the zoning board of 
    appeals.  When our hearing came up, none of our neighbors 
    objected and we went to the hearing armed with drawings, plot
    plans and reasons why we needed a variance.  Easy?  Forget it!
          The board requested to see our property the following Saturday.
    When they (all 5 of them) came up our driveway, one of them looked
    at our cars (and boat) and said, "Boy, these people must be loaded!"
    They measured and measured and asked why we really needed it where
    we wanted to put it and suggested some other areas such as 
    over the septic, over the leach field, over the secondary leach
    field and attached to the house (which would also require a variance.)
    They left stating that they would discuss it in a work session in
    two weeks.  (Which was July 15!)  
         As you can guess, they denied our variance, stating that there
    were other areas on the property that would support the garage without
    requiring a variance.....
         We measured, and measured, and measured..... and read each
    line of the zoning laws.  Finally we decided to set the garage back
    100 feet from the street.  It was the only way to work within the
    laws.  (We did this only to expedite the construction of the garage
    in the summer monthes!)
         We applied for a permit and it was issued (to the tune of $90!).
    But on further interpretation of the zoning laws (read over a brew
    while relishing the building permit), we discovered that we STILL
    were not in compliance.  (The zoning laws read 100 feet back from
    and we abutt 2 streets.  If we are 100 feet from each street, the
    garage is 15 feet into my neighbor's property!)
         Of course, we called the building inspector - and he said that
    he was issuing a cease and desist order to us to stop construction.
    (which hadn't begun)  He pulled the building permit, kept our $90
    and said that it was a matter for the selectmen to vote on and
    we would have to get into the queue for items on meeting agendae.
         That is our "intermediate" project.  The best laid plans of
    mice and men tend to get caught in paperwork.  By our original 
    timetable, we would have been well on our way to completion now,
    but all we have is an empty spot on the lawn where we neglected
    to lay fertilizer.......
    
    ML

    We've been working on our 'remove the tree so we can put in a driveway'
    problem for TWO YEARS!
    
    We live in a large Victorian on Beacon street in Newton Center and
    rent out the part of the house (that used to be the servants quarters,
    so it is completely separate from our side of the house)
    to three tenants.  We needed a driveway to accomodate the three
    cars belonging to the tenants plus our three cars.   In addition,
    our existing driveway was a straight narrow path straight from Beacon
    street up to the house...not enought room for all the cars, but
    worse than that, it necessitated backing onto Beacon street, a very
    tricky and most dangerous situation.
    
    Sooooo, we decided to bite the bullet and put in a new driveway.
    We hired a landscape architect to draw up the plans so we wouldn't
    end up with the paved parking lot look, and she came up with an
    excellent design which called for a curved driveway coming in from
    Beacon street, passing in front of the house, and then going out
    to the side street at a forty-five degree angle.  There was also
    a 'planting island' in the middle of this plan, and a parking area
    up next to the side of the house.  The design met all of our criteria.
    The only problem was....a tree was currently growiing right in the
    middle of the place where the driveway was to comeout on the side
    street.  Now this is no ordinary tree.  It is a common maple, BUT
    it is located on that tiny patch of land between the sidewalk and
    the street which makes it a CITY TREE!
    
    To remove a CITY TREE, one has to petition the city government.
    We filed our plans (which were approved), petitioned the city fathers,
    and were notified of our 'date in court'.  EVERYONE around us was
    notified by city government that we were asking to remove a tree,
    and if they had any objections, be sure to come to the city meeting
    to be held XXXXXXX 1985!  Yes, last year.  Well, unbelieveably all
    went well, and no one objected to our removing the tree, and soon
    the city fathers notified the city parks department and they came
    out and cut down the tree.  Well....we came home from work one day
    to find the tree gone BUT they cut down the WRONG TREE!  We mentioned
    this to the city fathers, but at this time our contracter went out
    of business, and we couldn't find anyone to put in the driveway
    for under $20,000 and winter was setting in, so we decided to wait
    until next summer...the summer of 1986.
    
    This summer, we find a driveway contracter right away, and he is
    able to put in the driveway IMMEDIATELY...but not a day later. 
    His price was right, and his recommendations were good, and besides
    we liked him, so we said go ahead, do it...and he did.  As part
    of the deal, we asked him to include taking down the tree in his
    bid--which he did.  As he got into the job, he decovered that he
    couldn't touch the damn tree because it was a CITY tree...so we
    decided to go ahead with the driveway part of the job, and leave
    the tree for the city to take down.
    
    The driveway went it.  It is gorgeous, and there is plenty of room
    for all six cars, as well as for visitors.  Even better, we can
    turn around and do not have to back onto Beacon Street.  But the
    tree is still in the middle of the driveway exit on the side street.
    You can drive by and see the driveway with the tree in the middle--it
    is very noticable!  THEN THE 'SAVE THE TREE' LUNATIC FRINGE RESIDENTS
    GET INVOLVE, heaven help us, and decide that 1) One tree was already
    cut down, TWO was a sacrilege and 2) the Oherns were obviously trying
    to bully city hall by putting in the driveway before getting permission
    to take down the tree  sooooooooooo they started a petition, and
    went around Newton getting signatures to SAVE THE TREE!  They file
    this petition with city hall (who has already marked the (correct)
    tree with bright red paint so the city parks people will cut down
    the right tree) to STOP WORK!  They even get, gasp, an alderman's
    signature!  Noone is even going to touch that tree with an alderman
    signing a petition to save it!
    
    The end of the story?  Today, August 1986, over a year later, 
    we have a lovely circular
    driveway with a tree in the middle of its egress on the side street!
    The entire community is fighting over 'our' little tree--the alderman,
    the parks department, the 'save the tree' folks, the landscape
    architect (her plan is being mis-represented!) and us.  We have
    given the city til Sept 3 to remove the tree.  Then we get a lawyer
    and sue for the cost of the driveway!   (If anyone has a chain saw
    and needs firewood, there is a nice tree on the east side of Lake street
    near Beacon street in Newton Center.....I don't know a thing!)
    
    
    

    It would be a shame if the tree just "died on it's own" from being
    poisoned from something? That way the tree would have to be taken down
    as a public safety hazzard!
    
    Just an idea,
    Mike B.
    

    re: .6
    
    Seems to me that no tree will survive having all the bark removed
    around the trunk. Maybe you should invite some kids with pocket
    knives over to carve their initials on the tree.......
    
    PS: The save the tree folks (close relatives to the "Bird and Bunny"
    people) are good for their own stupidity sometimes. Seems Westboro
    town meeting one year hada proposal to add an addition onto the
    library but it would involve cutting down a HUGE beech tree....
    Needless to say, the addition passed without a wimper except someone
    questioned the removal of this "ancient and honorable" beech tree.
    To squelch the rabid save_the_trees folks, one very attractive
    member of the pro-library addition group stood up and admitted that
    she was older than the tree! Seems she grew up on the street and
    remembers playing in the open field when the tree was planted.
    Turns out that Beech trees grow to enormous size within a couple
    of decades....That is not to guess just how old the speaker was,
    but she didn't look that old! There is a lot to be said for
    conservation folks but sometimes they really outdo themselves with
    dumb ideas. 
    
    Maybe you can pacify them with planting a new tree or two to replace
    the cut one.

    NOw for my "longest project story".....
    
    Seems I started to plan to paint the house one summer. First side
    to do involved the repair of a window sill that had rotted. Pulled
    out the wiindow, repaired the sill and replaced the window with
    only minor problems. Went to nail the clapboards back down around
    the frame, and found nothing to nail into.....seems the plywood
    underneath was rooted away from improperly caulked trim. Started
    to remove the siding to repair the damages and finally tore the
    entire side off down to the plywood. Then replaced several panels
    of plywood, new building paper, and new clapboards. After that,
    determined that entire house except front side needed similar
    treatment! Doing this job in my spare time (and cash) has cost me
    5 years of fun and learning new skills such as hanging clapboards
    and how to carry sheets of 1/2" ply up a ladder to the second story,
    hold it in place and nail it down. Needless to say, the housepaining
    (that is not a misspelling of housepainting!!!) job ran from about
    1 month of spare time to 5 years of spare time including several
    1 week vacations taken to work on it full time, rather than drag
    it out. 
    
    The good news is, EVERYONE in town, and the surrounding towns, have
    stopped to ask what I am doing, and why, and could such water damage
    happen to them. If I had $10 for everytime I have explained the
    problems, and the cures, I could have paid for the entire job!
    I have also had people argue with me that I had put an addition
    on the house, even after I explain that it is just new clapboards
    and plywood! They won't believe I would just replace the damaged
    wood, they are convinced that it was a new addition.

Cutting around the bark is way too obvious and will only get the 'save the 
tree' people up in arms that you killed the tree.  But, I understand that 
copper nails driven into a tree will kill it right quickly.  You can get them 
at plumbing supply houses.  If you cut the heads off and drove them in with a 
nail set, no one would ever be able to tell.

Paul

    	Wouldn't that be treeicide?!  and the sap would be treeicider!
    Sorry!..Jorge'

    
    	RE copper nails...
    
    	I have seen this before somewhere -- maybe GARDEN notesfile.
    	At the time I questioned "how many nails does it take?  Or
    	how close together do I have to put them?".  It was explained
    	that the copper reacts and forms copper sulfate or some other
    	poison in the tree, but I was never answered concerning how
    	much do I need?
    
    	So, does anyone here know how much?
    
    	Joe O.
    

    First thing I'd do is ask the building inspector and consult the
    appropriate code. My impression was that the foundation at *all*
    points had to be installed below the frost level.
    
    Just out of curiosity...how do you know the depth of the foundation
    below the door?
    

>    Just out of curiosity...how do you know the depth of the foundation
>    below the door?
    
I took pictures of the entire building process, so I have photos of the 
footing, the foundation, and placement of the door.  I know this problem
has to be fixed, my question is, should I make them do something now
(panic mode), or, can I expect that nothing serious will happen this year,
but that it is a problem that needs fixing this summer.

Brad.

    What state do you live in?  I don't understand how a builder could
    have done what you described.  Nobody does that.  You always put
    a frost wall under a walkout basement door.   Do you live in a state
    that requires a building permit?  An inspector wouldn't have approved
    these plans.
    
    Is the footing down to bedrock?  If so, you don't need a frostwall.
    

>    What state do you live in?  I don't understand how a builder could
>    have done what you described.  Nobody does that.  You always put
>    a frost wall under a walkout basement door.   Do you live in a state
>    that requires a building permit?  An inspector wouldn't have approved
>    these plans.
>    
>    Is the footing down to bedrock?  If so, you don't need a frostwall.

I live in Orange, MA.  The inspector did sign off the foundation, the only
thing I can figure is he must have assumed there was going to be a bulkhead
instead of a walkout door.   It is not down to bedrock.

Again,  should I do something about this NOW???  I know I have legal 
recourse etc, but I don't want to antagonize the builder unnecessarily
if it can wait till spring.  I will talk to him about it today or tommorow,
but I want to know how alarmed I should be.  Someone told me that maybe not
this or next year, but down the road I will have problems most likely.

Brad.

    I agree with what you've already heard.  You'll get by a winter
    or two with no problems.  What's the advantage of waiting?  Is the
    builder going to come back 2 years from now and add a frost wall
    at no charge?  
    
    Also, did your inspector inspect the foundation before it was 
    backfilled?
    

> What's the advantage of waiting? 

My warrantee doesn't expire until December, and I have some other problems
to work out with the builder, and this particular one would be easier to 
fix in warmer weather.  Don't worry, I am not paying for this.

> Also, did your inspector inspect the foundation before it was 
> backfilled?
    
Yes, but I just looked at the prelims, and they don't mention a walkout 
door.

Brad.

    I would inform the builder (in writing) ASAP, and get him to
    acknowledge (in writing) the receipt of that notification.   This is a
    major structural deficiency.   WHEN he corrects the deficiency is the
    next issue, and you can work that out with him.  But, you should inform
    him of the deficiency at the earliest possible moment. What if he goes
    bankrupt? 

    with all the concern over the legalities and paperwork and such,
    nobody's yet answered the question....
    
    I would think that it would make sense to wait until spring.  as
    was already said, there might not be any problems for a couple of
    years.  besides, trying to fix it now might increase the chance
    of problems sooner, and I wouldn't want to bank on the quality of
    work done now (particularly if the builder is under duress).

                From a layman (I'm no expert on foundations!); I would
        be inclined to think that this year, with all the snow (it acts
        as an insulator thus not allowing the ground to freeze very
        deep), you could probably wait until spring to have the work
        done.
                
                If it had been a few years back when we got the record
        cold weather of long duration with no snow on the ground, well
        it might be too late by now.
                
                /s/     Bob

    RE: .1 > I have the following situation with my new house.
    
             So do I, my house is now 5 years old. Your note got
   me thinking so I drove around my neighborhood noting that ~90%
  of all the homes built have walk-in cellars or family rooms even
    with the grade also. None have the 4 foot wall underneath.
    
    RE: .2 > My impression was that the foundation at *all* points had
           > to be installed below the frost level.    

  According to the Mass. State Building Code, A footing is required
    which should be located at least 4 feet below the finished grade.
    
    RE: .3 > I know this problem has to be fixed,
    
    Don't be to sure, Fixing this would require tunneling under the
    existing footing (below your basement door) and pouring an additional
    footing and foundation under the door. Support will be required
    to hold the existing footing up during all this work. Try to visualize
    what's required to do all this.
    
    RE: .4 > I don't understand how a builder could have done what you
              described. Nobody does that.
    
    Wanna bet. I don't disagree with any of you, after all the same problem
    exists with my home. Presently, I'm taking a house building course
    at a Vocational School in my area. I asked the instructor (who,
    BTW is a building inspector) about the foundation etc. He said,
    YES technically the footing under the doorway should go down 4 feet
    but most builders don't do this. (Realize this type of arrangement
    requires a Step Foundation, Picture this). Not that it's right, and it IS
    a code violation but usually the builder lives in the area and knows
    the building inspector and.....you know what I mean ...
    
    I asked the instruction if I was headed for any problems in the
    area around my door and he said I shouldn't see anything major
    if it hasn't started to crack already, and it hasn't. I also think
    another mans/womens case could be different, But my feeling is that
    you're headed for trouble if you procede w/ plans to dig up what
    presently exists.
    
    and finally...  RE: .7 > My warantee doesn't expire until December.
    
    If at anytime you encounter a problem with your home which has caused
    you considerable grief that can be
    linked with an out an out code violation > The builder is ultimately
    responsible and probably the building inspector. Of course you may
    be ostracized in your town for life for beginning any legal proceedings
    but....lets hope nothing is bad enough for it to come to that. The
    building code, from town to town, building insp. to building insp.,
    does have inherent within it.....some slack. I live in a small town
    where building inspectors, builders and accessors etc. are all related
    if you trace the family tree back far enough.
    
    MArk

    re: .-1:    > ...90% of all the homes have a walk in cellar....
   > None have the 4 foot wall underneath.
    
    How do you know?
    

    I can't speak for 100% of the 90% of the homes w/ walk in cellars.
    But seeing IS believing.....My home was probably # 32 of the roughly
    84 homes in the entire subdivision. If you've ever moved into, or
    had a home built in a brand new neighborhood you'd experience the
    following:
    
    1. you'd know all of your neighbors in a very short period of time
           (especially if you have kids)
       You know this isn't the case in a well established neighbor
       of 15-20 yrs. or so. A friend of mine lives in one of these 
       neighborhoods and he wouldn't recognize his neighbor three doors
       down if he bit him on the face.
    
    2. you'd know what everyones house looked like on the inside as
       you would have walked through it a dozen times prior to anyone
       moving in -----I always looked for new ideas as my house was
       purchased w/ an unfinished upstairs  
       That was the thing to do after supper during the summer....stroll
       around the neighborhood and see who the new people are....converse
       ...do they have kids...are they as old as yours...      

    3. and being interested in home construction, and how you couldn't
       be with all the building goin' on, you'd notice how the foundation
       was poured---the septic was layed out---and everything else

    ....................................
    
    MArk              ....victim

    
     I've had it with a wet basement floor, and am determined to cure
     (one of) my problems in the next weekend or two!  
    
     Specifically, I've had a seepage problem in the area where the
     pre-cast basement stairs meet the poured foundation of my basement.  
     As the house is fairly new, I've had the contractor come back to
     make repairs, but in his typical halfa** fashion, he's tried to
     make the repair inside with hydralic cement and water proofing
     paint.  Needless to say, water continues to leak in through the
     side and bottom seams.  
    
     I'm having some backhoe work (drainage) done in a couple of weeks,
     and plan to at the same time, dig down around the outside of the
     precast steps.  My question is; any recommendations on what method
     or type of water seal I should apply to the seam of poured wall-
     precast steps.  Should I use the same tar as builders use on 
     foundations??  Hydraulic cement??  A friend has recommended <POURING>
     concrete (!) in around the dug out hole... but this seems like a 
     waste of $$$$ as well as overkill.  What ever I use, I want to
     sure the problem will be solved.
     
     For any of you building a house, the lesson I've learned from all
     this is;  if you plan to have a bulkhead entrance to your basement,
     have the "jog" poured in the foundation (then use 2X8 treads),
     rather than using a precast bolt-on.  
     
     Any and all advise will be appreciated.  
     Thanx, Jim   
    
    
            

    If you have working foundation drains around the footing of the house
    and presumably under the cast bulkhead, then: 
    
    - Have the backhoe dig a hole at each corner where the bulkhead meets 
      the house. Go down to the footing drain.
    - Clean and dry the joint, caulk with a flexible compound such as GE 
      Silicon.
    - Seal the joint and wall area next to it with the best foundation
      coating you can find. Apply plastic film to the wet foundation
      coating.
    - Apply tar paper to the plastic film.
    - Install perferated plastic drain pipe verticly in the corner from
      the footing drain to just below the soil level.
    - Fill the corner with crushed stone and backfill. This could be
      tricky and may require a form to hold the stone in place or
      backfilling a little at a time (a little stone, then some dirt,
      a little stone, then some dirt...).
    - When landscaping, make sure the dirt slopes way from the corner.
    
    This should seal the crack from seapage and the stone and pipe
    will direct the water to the footing drain and keep the water pressure
    away from the joint it self.

    Charly

    One thing you might check is the backfilling underneath the pre-cast
    stairs. I had the same problem and traced it down to a large void
    directly under the sloped section of the pre-cast stairs. Apparently,
    during backfilling the dirt was not pushed in close enough under
    the stairs. I suggest you dig a small hole directly infront of the
    pre-cast unit (Where you exit out of the stair way). You may discover
    a similar void where all the water collects, which inturn works
    its way into your cellar. 
     If there is a void there just fill it in with soil and compact
    it as best you can. Make sure your backfilling work slopes away
    from your foundation, this is VERY important.
    

    This problem sounds so familiar I had to look at the sender to make
    sure I wasn't the one complaining. My house is two years old and
    the bulkhead steps (precast concrete, too) have never stopped leaking
    water into the cellar around the joint. The builder did the same
    cheap job yours did and the people who installed the steps chipped
    away the old hydraulic cement and refilled the gap. I have reason
    to believe there is a void under the steps, as pointed out by another
    noter, since we used to get some mud in with the water. This year we
    decided to take the builder to court. Our attorney is very confident
    we can have him fix it to our satisfaction (he handles this type
    of cases fairly often). We will be getting estimates for the repair
    within the next few days. Hopefully the solutions proposed by these
    people will be better than what has already been done. I will keep
    in mind your responses. I have been thinking all along that digging
    around the bulkhead to take a look at what's underneath and to do
    some sealing from the outside is the way to go. 
    
    This has got to be the most useful notes file around!

    Re: .1  I do not have "working foundation drains", (or any perimeter
    drains for that matter.)   Although I didn't mention it in the base
    note, the main reason the backhoe has been scheduled is to install drain
    tile/gravel at the footing of the houses' back and side foundation. 
                                                            
    Your suggestion on the vertical pipe seems fairly easy, especially
    since I planned to add pipe in this area.  
    
    You mention using the "best foundation coating I can find"... any
    suggestions?  Or is hot tar the way to go.  Also, whats the life
    expectancy on tar paper and plastic film??  I want a long range
    (read 15 + years) solution!  
    
    Re: 2;  Good point!  I have noticed some settling around the foundation
    and bulkhead area.  I'm almost positive there's a large void under
    the steps... based on the fact that very little hand work was done
    by the excavation contractor.  Once the backhoe starts digging,
    I'll let you know how BIG the void actually is/was.
    
    Thanks for the advise... 
    Any more ideas/experiences will be appreciated,
    Jim
    
    

    Re: .3  deja vu.....  I too am in the process of dragging my builder
    thru the mud (literally)!.  I've already sent notice that he's breached
    the 1 year warranty, and am now in the process of initiating a Chapter
    93A letter.  
    
    In the meantime, I'm going to fix the problem, and go after him
    for triple damages if we ever get to court.
    
    BTW get at least 3 estimates.  My quotes went from $800 to $2500!  
                                      
    Good luck.  Jim
    

    Re. .4 Any good cold brush on foundation coating should do, put it
    on as heavy as you can and/or use two coats. The tar paper is really
    only to protect the plastic from getting ripped when you back fill
    with the stone.
    
    The most important point in my method is the flexable seal in the
    joint (Silcon should do) since the pre-cast steps are going to move
    in relation to the foundation. Any type of hard seal will crack
    the first time the ground shifts and then you've lost youre seal.

    The second most important point is the stone and pipe to reduce
    the water pressure near the joint.

    Charly

    I have the same type problem as well as leakage in other cellar
    places. I have made arrangements for a company to seal it by injecting
    Bentonite in the ground around the foundation and bulkhead. They
    guarantee that where they seal it will not leak. I will find out.
    It is a lot cheaper (about half), neater (no digging) and easier
    (no landscaping after) than having it dug up.
    
    Jim.

    Do you have rain gutters?  They also can help solve your problem
    by directing roof water away from your problem area.

    I,ve got a question I don't believe is covered yet in this conference.
    I'm in the process of trying to figure out just  how much it's
    gonna cost to install a cellar hatchway in the back of my house.
    What I'd like to know is whether this job is very exspensive or
    would it be easier to tackle the job myself? Installation should
    be straight foward, did a hole cut a hole through the brick foundation
    and  install a door, hatchway, stairs, and of coarse cement walls.
    An info would be greatly appreciated.
    
    						//John\
    

Good question, though I can't say for sure I know the answer...

What you're proposing sounds straightforward enough.  A couple of thoughts come 
to mind.

	-	are you going to get a prefab one or build it yourself
	-	what about water tightness?

As for getting a prefab, those usually bolt onto the main foundation which means
you'll need to set in some kind of anchors.  I believe they cost somewhere
around $400!  For that matter, even if you fabricate your own, you'll still need
to secure it to the foundation.

As for making it water tight, previous notes attest to the fact that the best
way to keep water out of the cellar from a hatch are to either pour it as an
integral part of the foundation (a little late for you) or use foundation drains
to keep the water away.  If you don't have any drains, the best you can hope for
is seal the hell out of it and then seal it some more.  Cover the seam with tar,
plastic and any other kinds of goop you can think of.

-mark

    
    	I enlarged and replaced the bulkhead to my cellar last year.
    I did not have to whack a hole in the foundation but I did have
    to pour *lots* of concrete.  I just build forms out of plywood and
    made sure that the top of the concrete was 4" higher than the
    surrounding ground.  While the stuff was still damp I put in lag
    bolts to fasten my Bilco steel replacement bulkhead down.  Bilco
    makes bulkheads in many different sizes that cost $200-$300.  It
    is reasonably water tight, but still leaks a little in heavy rain
    despite my caulking and flashing.  All in all not too bad of a job,
    but boy do I hate to work with concrete!
    
    						=Ralph=
        
    They had a big laugh when I went to the supply store and bought
    only four sections of rebar!  
    
    	

    If you a installing a new basement access -- whether it is prefab
    or custom-made -- be sure to place a footer of depth equal to your
    basement's footer.  Failure to do this will allow the access way
    to "float" relative to your basement through normal freeze/thaw
    cycles.  This may take several years to affect the access' position,
    but it WILL in time.
                                                               
    Randy

    If you dig up around the bulkhead, yo might consider foundation
    coat.  It's a cement coating laced with fiberglass pieces about
    3/4" long.  I used it as a skim coat on dry  stacked block when
    I built my garage.  (My foundation guy backed out at the last minute)
    It's supposed to be as strong as a mortared block or poured wall.
    
    But the beauty of it is that it's waterproof.  The cost is probably
    more than the tar I think I payed around $26 a bag.  So if you're
    going to the trouble of digging up the foundation ...
    
    I might tend toward the Bentonite myself.  Read good things about
    that.

    I checked out the dir. and didn't find anything.  
    
    What can I do to stop the water leakage from around the bulkhead?
    
    Whenever it rains I get a lot of water coming in from the top of
    
    the stairs.  I tried sealing it, but the problem continues.
    
    Should I lift the whole hatch from the foundation and put down some
    
    kind of sealer then place it on top of the sealer?
    
                                          John

    Are you should it's leaking around the bulkhead and not somewhere
    else?  Does the whole thing leak or just one place?  Caulking should
    do it.  Is this a new bulkhead?
    

    Yes..the house is three years old.  It seems to be leaking right
    at the top of the stairs.  When you open the doors to enter,
    there is a metal strip about two inches wide that bolts down into
    the cement foundation...thats where the water is getting under!
    
    They sealed it with something when they gut it in and I've done
    it twice.  It is fine for awhile, then it starts again.
    
    							John
    

    I had a similar problem this spring.  I ended up unbolting the bulkhead
    from the 'foundation', then laid down about 1 1/2 tubes worth of
    silicone caulking (great stuff that silicone!).  I then lowered
    the bulkhead back down, and bolted it down.  Ran more silicone around
    the outside, along the cement. It's been fine ever since. 
    
    The trick is to get the cement clean - no loose stuff or dirt. I
    used a wire brush to get up the loose stuff, then vacuumed it up
    with a shop vac.
    
    -Mark
    

    I had a similar situation with my bulkhead and found that after
    sealing the entire base with silicone, it still leaked.  The
    reason was that water was entering where the 2 doors come together
    and where they touch the base.  If you stand in the basement
    and look out of a closed bulkhead (during the day) chances are that
    you will see light.  This is where the water and little bugs
    enter the bulkhead.  You need something like a weatherstrip to
    seal it up.  When you're all done, you shouldn't see any light
    coming thru.  It will also reduce air infiltration into the basement.
    
    -al

    Check for any loose bolts.  If the buljhead 'works' back and forth
    when you open it, whatever sealant you put around the cement metal
    interface will leak again.  Use lockwashers where there are none.
    I found the cement leaning slightly towards the cellar so that any
    water instead of running off would sit there until it either evaporated
    or leaked into the cellar. Yuh, you guessed right.  Most of the
    time it never evaporated.  Build this up with something and seal
    it with the silicone.  Or enough silicone caulk could make the difference.

    I suggest using hydrolic cement which expands when it drys.  Don't
    get any on your hands.  I have never used the stuff but I hear it
    does a great job.
    
    -Gary
    

This too has been discussed elsewhere.  The ONLY approved method by the majority
of the noters in this conference is to dig up the OUTSIDE and fix the leaks from
there...

-mark

    NO...THIS IS A NEW LEAK;-)!
    
    This baby is leaking from the top of the stairs..not the bottom.
    
    I'm going to remove the entire bulkhead off of the foundation and
    
    put some sealer down to make it tight!
    
    						Thanks for the Info,
    
    							John

    
    	Theres a couple of products out there to do the job.
    
    	one is MORTITE. It's a roll of putty  with a paper strip
    	between layers. Unroll a length and put it on top of the
    	foundation where the bulkhead will sit. Drop the bulkhead
    	on top of the bead of putty and tighten it down...no more
    	leaks.
    
    	Theres also a Tar material thats used to lay on top of a footer
    	prior to pouring the foundation. That works too...don't
    	know what its called..
                              
                              ___GM___	

    re .0, .8
    
    Given the topic of the note, is that REALLY your last name?

    YES....Thats me!
    
    I don't want to stop my relatives from coming in...just the unwanted
    
    Waters.....But now that I think about it! ;-)
    
    						John

    John,
    
    In keeping with the new HOME_WORK guidelines, could you please change
    the title of the note to be a little more descriptive.  I'm sure
    other, future bulkhead doors leakers will appreciate it!
    
    

    I need some advice/tips on water-proofing the inside of my bulkhead.
    I recently had my bulkhead raised by a layer of cinder blocks. 
    The mortar seam between the cinder blocks and my original bulkhead
    foundation leaks during moderate to heavy rainstorms.  Is there
    any waterproofing treatment that I can apply to the bulkhead to
    prevent this leaking?
    
    Thanks in advance.
    
    Mark.

    You can try a product called Water-plug. It's a dry mix. Mix with
    water and press into the joint that's leaking.
    
    It sounds like you have a drainage problem behind that wall that's
    allowing the water to build up. Have you looked into putting some
    drainage in there?
    
    /tb/
    

    As a matter of fact, I *do* have drainage problem as my entire back
    yard pitches toward the bulkhead.  The reason I added a row of masonry
    blocks below the bulkhead (per .0) is that the "lip" at the top of my 
    bulkhead is only 1.5 inches above the ground level, so when a puddle 
    forms around the bulkhead water pours into the cellar.  
    
    I plan to correct the drainage problem in one of two ways:
    
    1. Backfill and compact gravel around the bulkhead to cause drainage
    to flow away from the bulkhead.  This will take 7-10 yards of gravel.
    
    or
    
    2. Dig a trench around the bulkhead and lay perforated PVC in a
    bed of crushed stone.  The pipe would be extended to the lowest
    end of my property.
    
    I believe the backfill option is best as it will prevent any water
    from draining towards the bulkhead.  Any ideas or opinions?
    
    re Water Plug:  There really isn't any joint to plug, as the seam
    is flush with the masonry blocks.

    After reading note 749.1, which gives a very good description of
    correcting a drainage problem, I'm confused as to which alternative
    is best for my particular problem.  Should I backfill around the
    bulkhead to PREVENT water from building up there (I only have this
    problem in the winter when the ground is frozen, therefore, I'm
    not sure that I really have a drainage problem, per se), or should
    I go the crushed stone/perforated PVC route and TOLERATE the pitch
    of my yard and compensate by drainage?
    
    I'm *really* grateful to anyone who has experience in this area.
    
    Mark.

    I know the final word is from the building inspector, but.....
    
    What is the usual building code requirement for basement access??
    
    We currently have a ground-level door, opening to a landing,
    from which one set of stairs (long) goes to the basement and 
    another set (short) goes to the first floor.
    
    I would like to move the door up to first-floor level, and have
    the cellar stairway open into the kitchen.  This would be the
    only basement access (no bulkhead, etc.).
    
    Does this sound like a problem?
    
    Thanks for the help.
    
    dq

    It's not a problem (in Massachusetts anyway) unless it's a multi-family
    dwelling and the basement is a dwelling unit.
    

    
    just make sure the door is wide enough to move things like
    washer/dryer thru...I think there is code on 30+ inches or
    something...
    obviously, as you said, check with the building inspector.
    
    deb
    

    Are there any requirements for rooms within a cellar? For
    example, if there are 4 rooms in the cellar and it is used
    as a separate dwelling, does each room have to have acces
    or does the same 2-exit rule apply?

    The alternate egress route applies to all floors on which there is a
    separate dwelling unit. The number of rooms in the unit and/or the fact
    that the unit is in the basement are not relevant. 
    
    HOWEVER, it is difficult to get a real basement unit to pass current
    Mass building code (most of them are in older buildings and have
    been grandfathered in) because there is a mimimum window area
    requirement in all rooms except bath/kitchen.  Classic "cellar"
    windows don't make it.  You'll notice that any more recent below-grade
    dwelling units are either in half basements or have some manner
    of large window-wells to accomodate the windows necessary to pass
    code.
    
    
    Jim  ex-Mass Builder

    A spring on the bulkhead door to my basement recently broke.  I tried
    to locate a replacement spring, but after a long search, I was told
    that the company that made my bulkhead is out of business.  Someone
    suggested getting an "equivalent" spring made to replace it.  I did
    that by eventually going to a garage door company, who took a garage
    door spring, and cut it down to size, and supposedly, it is equivalent.
    
    Unfortunately, in order to install the spring, I have to extend it a
    few inches.  Extending this spring more than a millimeter can't be done
    by hand.  Does anyone have any suggestion for how to extend a spring
    far enough that I can install it (like 3-4 inches)?  Any suggestions
    would be appreciated...  Thanks,  Bill
    

By mechanical advantage.  I'd try using wedges and insert one between each 
coil and remove when installed.

    
    
    Get a piece of hardwood dowel that can be inserted inside the spring.
    Drill a hole at each end wide enough to take a stout 4" nail. (across
    the dowel, not into the end).  The distance between the nail holes
    should be equivalent to the required length of the spring. The closer
    the fit, the better, but remember that you have to remove the dowel
    after, so check that there's enough room to remove it when the spring
    is in its final position.
    
    hang one end of the spring on a good solid fixing to your basement
    beam.  Tie stout rope to the other end of the spring, and make a loop
    for your foot about 6" of the floor.  Make certain there's no
    possibility of the spring flying loose when you put your weight on it.
    
    slide in the dowel, put your weight on the rope with your foot and
    extend the spring to the required length.  slide in the nails through
    the drilled holes to lock the spring in the extended position.
    
    (An alternative is to drill a number of holes through the dowel
    and open the coils with wedges, moving the nails as you lengthen
    the spring.)
    
    fit the spring in the door remove the nails with care, again making
    sure that the spring cannot fly loose.  Tie it in place if you can.
    
    If it looks as if it might be difficult to remove the dowel after the
    spring has been fitted in place, you can always saw it shorter through
    the coils of the spring with a hacksaw.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
    

	I have a problem with my basement stairs.  The stairs are
	13' long.  The basement has about a 1-2" of cement.  The
	problem is that when the stairs were installed it seems that
	the person broke up the cement to lay the stairs unto dirt
	and wood, ie. a wood base laying on dirt.  The wood has rotted
	and about 2' of the left stringer is rotted.  So I figure
	that I have two problems: 1. pouring some cement to cover the
	hole made for the stairs and 2. fixing the stairs.

	I have thought about making two 4' stringers and bolting them
	to the original stringers (overlapping the orginal by 2' and
	bolting in two places per stringer).  This would eliminate having 
	to tear out the current stairs and be cheaper.  I have never 
	seen this done before so I'm wondering if there would be some 
	problem.

	The hole made for the stairs in the cement is about 1 1/2".  Some
	of the floor in this section of the basement (12' X 16') is
	craking and chiping in places.  I plan on pouring some cement
	to level the fllor which at places would entail having 1/4" of
	cement.  Would applying a cement bonding compound allow me to
	put down 1/4" of cement?

	Thanks for any tips,
	Sarah
	

    
    
    If its not going to be seen, you can bolt the new stringer to 
    the old.  If you can see it, you might want to cut off say a
    2 foot section, but up the new stringer section to the old
    and from the inside, breach the sections with a 4' 2x6 section.
    
    You can get a fiberglass reinforced cement mix.  1/4" seem
    a little thin.  You might run into cracking problems that
    thin.
    
    JD

    
    Why not make the first step out of concrete - that way it will be
    at least 6-7" deep, and a good base for the steps?
    
    
    C

    Are you sure it's ROT and not termites?   I would think it unlikely for
    the stairs to rot in an enclosed basement unless you get a lot of
    water. 
    
    Just a thought. . .
    
    -Bob (Who has had termites in my stairs support from a crack in the
    floor)

    
    Good point - also make sure it's not dry rot.  Wet rot splits wood
    along the grain and shows black mould. If it is dry rot, the wood will
    be powdery and cracked in a square pattern. There may be a mass of fine
    white threads running across the surface or a fruiting (spore) body
    like a fungus on the wood.  (Dry rot is a misnomer, it requires warmth,
    dampness and a lack of ventilation to grow.)
    
    If there's the slightest risk that it might be dry rot, get an expert
    immediately.
    
    Regards,
    
    Colin
    
                                         

 Yes, get this looked at very closely. This happened to my house. The stairs
were built first, then the celar floor was poured. I DID have termite problems.
This was the only place in the whole house which had any problems. The fix was
to cut stairs, chip out the wood(within the cement) and refill the holes. I'm
sorry, but I don't know what type of cement was used, this was part of our
purchase and sale agreement, so someone else did the work.

-bob

    Nearly five years later, the basenote lives!
    
    My bulkhead is 34 years old (original) and is all steel construction --
    not steel over concrete.
    
    Yesterday I noticed a large area of the carpeting was soaked through. I
    pried back all my carefully laid insulation barriers over my sliding
    door to the bulkhead and noticed a 3" high pile of sand (mud) lying on
    the floor at the bottom left corner of the bulkhead steps. I couldn't
    "see" a leak anywhere but water doesn't need much space to come
    through. 
    
    Considering I have a one-piece steel unit, are there any ideas as to
    what I could do? I know I need gutters and that would help a lot, but
    that'll be a project for the spring. What can I do in the meantime?
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

    
    I take it you have water runing on and directly around the bulkhead.
    
    quick fix...... get a 10x10 tarp or sheet of plastic and drape it
    over the area so any water runing on or around will be directed away.
    Its quick and spring is close......
    
    JD

    
    I pretty sure that it is not dry rot.  This area of the basement is
    damp.  The rotted stringer is darker, as though wet, and the rotting
    itself is ragged along the grain, slightly further along on one side 
    than the other. The stringer further from the damp wall is not in such
    bad shape.  I'm sure that there are no termites in this area, they
    tended to like the other parts of the basement better :-) 
    
    Re .1  I take it that you are suggesting butting up the old and new
    stringers and tying them together with a 2x6 inside.  Would I have any
    problems with the fiberglass reinforced cement in areas were the cement
    would be up to 1 1/2"?  Thanks for the suggestions

    
    
    2x6 is outta' sight, outta' mind.  
    
    I wouldnt spread the cement any thiner than 1" if
    thats what your asking.
    
    JD
    

    
    Mark, if you're still with us, what did you decide to do here?  I have
    the same problem right now.  I can't figure on digging a drain or
    building a concrete wall around my bulkhead and letting the water sit
    until I pump it or the ground thaws.  The last two winters have been
    brutal for water cascading down my bulkhead steps.
    
    Bob

    
       I had to install a new bulkhead anyway a couple of years back and
    I had the same problem with water (area too low).
    
       I removed the old bulkhead, set up a concrete form and poured new
    concrete (mixed from bags) rather than using blocks. I raised the form
    about 4-6" and puts the new bulkhead in while it was setting up. With
    the poured concrete rather than block I have had no water infiltration.
    
       You may or may not have this option.
    
                   Mark

    
    Also, if you happen to have one of those pre-cast concrete setups
    that are bolted to the foundation... it might simply be installed
    wrong. Builders who use these things have an obnoxious habit of 
    failing to fill carefully beneath the stairs which ends up creating
    an empty space which just begs for water to fill it. If this is the
    case (and it isn't always easy to tell)... dig under and backfill.
    
                     						- Mac
                    
                    
                   

    
    Skunks and other animals like to live in there during the dry
    season too.

    
  My bulkhead door needs to be replaced. The current one is made from 
    plywood 1/2" thick and is in rotten condition. This bulkhead is
    66 x 58(approx) and is at a 70% angle. This is an 80 year old house.
    
    Should I use wood(other than plywwod) or pay some $$'s and have a 
    bulkhead company put one in? I am looking for a cheaper alternative
    than the bulkhead company. 
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    randy
    
    

    
       See note 734, and there are some others. DIR/TITLE="BULKHEAD"
    
                Mark

    You might want to check out the home centers (Home Depot, HQ, etc).
    They all sell metal bulkhead kits for reasonable ($200 or so) that are
    user-friendly to install. I've put in at least 10 of them, and the
    first only took about 90 minutes. 

I just saw an ad for a fiberglas bulkhead door in the latest issue of Fine
Homebuilding.  It's a one-piece unit which opens from the bottom and swings up.
It's called the "Clamshell".

-Chris

    I don't know where you live but what I did was put in a set of pre-cast 
    concrete stairs from Wachusett Pre-Cast and then built an entrance way
    on top of it. The unit was gauranteed not to leak and was resonably
    priced.

       I was looking for a note to place my question about a walkout door
    when I came across this topic and it made me nervous about my house.
    I'll address the topic related to this discussion and then ask my original
    question.
       My house has a walkout door in the back and a garage underneath on
    one side - both entire sides are at the same grade.  The other two sides 
    have grades considerably higher and there are retaining walls at or near 
    two corners (where the high grade sides meet the low grade sides).  I was
    wondering how you pour a foundation to meet the 4 foot foundation
    underground requirement in this case?  Would you excavate down, pour
    the footings and then the foundation, and then backfill 4+ feet and
    pour the slabs for the basement and garage floors on top of this?  I don't
    remember them backfilling that much when they built my house.  I'm not
    sure, but I also don't remember the unbackfilled foundation going up 4 
    feet and then seeing the bottom of the walkout and garage door areas. 
    I happened to be there when they were pouring the foundation and I saw
    them slide the boards in between the forms to create the walkout door
    opening.  I don't see how the opening could not have gone all the
    way down to the footing - unless they poured 4 feet all the way around,
    let it dry and then poured the rest of the foundation.  Does anyone know
    how this is normally done for a walkout door and garage underneath?
    Is there any easy way I can tell how much foundation I have underground
    below my walkout door?
    
       Now to my original question.  A friend of mine noticed that the trim
    around my walkout door goes right down to the dirt and mentioned that
    this might cause a problem with termites.  I looked at my two neighbors
    houses (same builder) and they seem to have a slab of cement underneath
    the threshold of their walkout doors that comes out a foot or two and
    is a little wider than the trim.  My threshold appears to be right on
    top of dirt!  Is this a code violation - should there have been a
    cement slab under the threshold?  Would a slab that only stuck up about
    two inches above the dirt and was only an inch or two wider than the
    trim stop termites?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Tom
    

    As you suspect, 2" of concrete will not stop termites.  BUT, it will
    force them to build a mud tunnel if they want to travel between the
    ground and your house.  Termites just love to find hidden paths from 
    dirt to wood and the best we can do is force them into the open.
    
    I have a garage built into a hillside.  The footings are stepped --
    they are just below floor level at the back, but are 4' down at the
    front.  This is how your walk-out should have been done -- hope it was.
    
    	Enjoy,
    	Larry

    To find the footing depth, send a piece of rebar (concrete
    reinforcement bar) down with a 5 pound hammer, until it stops. The
    footing will overhang the wall by ~ 4" on an 8" wall. If it's
    uncomfortably low, 2' or less, try another location nearby, to be sure
    it not hitting something other than the footing. Removing the rod could 
    be tough if it does go the full 4'. Wiggle it as you go to elongate the
    top of the hole. If it's too deep, you might have to cut it off below
    the surface. 

                Rebar
                     \   _
    		      \	| |Wall
          Finish ______\| |
             Grade      | |
                        | |
                        | |
                        | |
                       _| |_
            Footing   |_____|
    
Happy hunting,
    
/Jim
                     

    I Know this subject is already in this notes file but I have a specific
    question that was not explained fully enough in the replys that I
    reviewed.
    
    I have a problem with seepage coming into my cellar from my bulkhead.
    One of the resolutions to this problem is to backfill underneath the
    stairs of the bulkhead. I have read that in doing this you should grade
    away from the bulkhead in order to divert the water. The question I
    have is how much do you fill in. Do you fill in just enough to divert
    the water and leave the rest empty. Or do you fill it in completely
    leaving no gap. Would this concept negate the sloping affect which
    diverts the water or is it better to pack in the most you can hoping
    that it will better absorb the water.
    
    
    Mark
    

    
    Our house was built with pre-cast bolt on bulkhead stairs. I hate
    them.  They seep during heavy rain.  I wouldn't have to deal with this 
    if the foundation had been laid out to include the bulkhead.  In my
    case the problem is made worse by two rooflines converging and dumping
    near where the bulkhead is.  I'm getting gutters soon to divert that
    water.
     
    In the meantime I backfilled the stairs myself.  It did help quite a
    bit.  I got some good dirt which was a half sand half clay mixture.
    I was told to get as much dirt in as I could, so I used a hose to
    wash dirt all the way down to the bottom.  I was pretty surprized after
    I washed the first wheelbarrow of dirt down, and about half of another.
    The water really helps the dirt settle in and fill all the air gaps. 
    Naturally, the operation itself caused a lot of seepage - but from that
    day on I only get seepage during extremely heavy rain.  After the
    backfill, I extended the concrete lip of the bulkhead stairs about a
    foot on any side with some ready mix concrete - so that rain would
    tend not to erode the graded earth around the bulkhead causing 
    standing water.
    
    Arrggh,
    
       Jim D.