Conference 7.286::home_work

    Make sure you find some studs! There are some good books that you
    can get in book stores or lumber yards on making storage or shelving.
    They are about $5.95. If you don't want to buy just take a peek
    in the store. It may give you a good idea!
                                                       Ed 

    I have built shelves with a lot of unsupported run (required by
    the way I wanted the thing to look when it was done) and reinforced
    them by building them thusly:
    
    end view of a shelf:
    
    
         --------------------------+--+
         +--+----------------------|B |
   WALL  | A|                      |__|  FRONT
         |__|

    Piece "A" is nailed to the wall and provides support along the back
    of the shelf.  Piece "B" is combined trim (I used oak for looks)
    and support along the front.  These support a phenomenal number
    of books.  Mine aren't adjustable byt you could apply piece "A"
    the same way piece "B" is applied and use them as more-rigid adjustable
    shelves.
    
    Pete

Hi Dwight,

	A friend of mine wanted some bookshelves installed but couldn't attach
them to the walls.  What her carpenter friend did was to make ladders out of
2X4's and large dowels to hold the shelves.  At the top of each 2X4 he bored
a hole into which he recessed an automotive valve spring.  He then sandwiched 
the 2X4 between the ceiling and the floor.  The spring gave enougn tension to 
keep them fairly solid.  She had an 8 foot length of floor to ceiling shelves 
filled with hardcovers and never had a problem.  You have to use something 
between the spring and the ceiling to distribute the pressure and protect the 
ceiling.

		springs-------------------
		  |                       |
___________________________________________________________
		 _=_			 _=_
		|   |    shelves	|   |
   Dowels ----->| O |===================| O |
		|   |			|   |
		|   |			|   |
		|   |			|   |
		| O |===================| O |
		|   |			|   |
		|   |			|   |
		|   |			|   |
		| O |===================| O |
		|   |			|   |
		|   |			|   |
________________|___|___________________|___|______________

re:.-1

sounds interesting, but I've got to go along with .-2.

you've GOT to have some horizontal strengthening.  nailing strips to the 
front and back (modification to .-2) would at least provide that.  
without it, you're gonna sag!

-mark

re:.-1

	Agreed.  Even a small span will sag with enough weight on it.  Adding
the horizontal support you suggest gives some pretty nice looking, very sturdy
book cases that don't have to be attached to the walls (she was in an apartment
and hence the free standing requirement).

George

    3 years ago, I built (yet another) set of large bookcases, this
    time for my 24x24 rec room (cathedral ceiling). A few rules that
    can fix most of the problems:

    1. DON'T RELY ON WALLS TO SUPPORT THE WEIGHT OF LOTS OF BOOKS. THE
    WEIGHT SHOULD BE APPLIED TO THE FLOOR, NOT THE WALLS.
    
    2. THE WALLS PROVIDE A DESIGN, STABILIZING AND LOCATING FUNCTION,
    NOT A LOAD BEARING FUNCTION. The walls and ceiling (unless it's
    cathedral) should define the bookcase. And the bookcase becomes
    part of the room rather than an add-in.
    
    3. A LITTLE BIT OF WOODWORKING BEATS THE HECK OUT OF A LOT OF NAILS,
    SCREWS, REINFORCING PIECES AND OTHER HARDWARE.
    
    
        
    I find 2x10's to be the perfect material for shelves. I keep shelf
    runs to no more than 3 or 3 and a half feet a piece. I'm sure 4
    feet is OK too. 2x10's are really 1.5" by slightly less than 9".
    
    If you have an 8 foot wide wall, build a BASE for the shelves out
    of 2x4's and nail a 2x10 down flat on it. If you want to be fancy,
    route out a groove in the 2x10, about 3/8ths deep and 1.5" wide
    ... route three grooves, one on each side and one in the center.
    
    If the bookcase is going to fill one wall, dividing it into three
    vertical sections is more visually appealing than 2. Two four foot
    sections on an 8 foot wall make the center vertical the first point
    the eye focuses on. Three sections draw the eyes to the center section,
    which should be the 'showcase' section (best books or whatever).
    Also, if you're going with three sections, the center one should
    be wider than the other two, otherwise the assembly can wind up
    looking 'too busy'. The two side sections should also be equal in
    width to each other for visual balance. BTW: each side section should
    be atleast half the width of the center section, if not more...but
    never as large (or larger) than the center section. A narrower center
    section (narrower than either of the side sections) usually looks
    just plain BAD.  

    
    If the wall has a window, you have to get creative to design the
    bookcase to work with the window and highlight it. Since you mentioned
    nothing about a window (or windows), I'll ignore that...
                                                                      
    For simplicity's sake, the rest of this note is written as though
    you only have two sections. It was easier to write that way...
    
    Then get three 2x10's for uprights, one for the left side, one for
    the right and one for the center. Route notches in each so you can
    install floating shelf tracks (2 on the inside of the left upright,
    4 -2 per side- on the center upright and 2 on the inside of the
    right upright.
    
    Then get one more 2x10 for the top horizontal piece. Route/Mill
    three notches in it, just like the bottom piece.
    
    Make sure the uprights are all cut to the right (same) lenght and
    that they're all cut square.
    
    If you do all this right, it should hold up very well, be relatively
    indestructible, won't ever let shelves (2x10) sag...
    
    I went a couple of steps further. I put notches in the bottom of
    each shelf so they couldn't slide back and forth on the little floating
    clips. And I made a single, desk height special shelf that's
    permanently mounted at about 29" high -- it's also 16 inches deep
    so it protrudes to display certain items...
    
    

    Using 2 x 10's might be ok in a garage, basement, or log cabin,
    but they are too bulky an would look out of place in any formal
    room.

.7>    Using 2 x 10's might be ok in a garage, basement, or log cabin,
.7>    but they are too bulky an would look out of place in any formal room.
                                                                      
    Then
    
    (a) stain the wood, or
    (b) use oak, or
    (c) route the edges, or
    (d) all of the above
    
    If an entire wall is a bookcase, 2x10's don't look bulky AT ALL.
    Anything less substantial will need reinforcement so it won't sag
    unless you put nothing on the shelf. Standard planking (pine or
    oak or whatever) IS TOO THIN, looks insufficiently bulky and will
    sag over time.

    I agree with .7, 2x10's will look to heavy and are over kill. I have
    some 50 year old shelves in my house that are only 1" thick. They
    don't sag and support all the books I can put on them. A proper
    design does not require 2" thick shelves. 

    My library agrees with JAWS::AUSTIN.
    
    My fiance�'s library agrees with JAWS::AUSTIN.
    
    Thanks for the tip on the 2x10's -- I think that's the way we'll
    go.
    
    Dick
    

    I'd agree with .9 etc. - 2x10's belong in a garage, not a living
    room.  But I guess tastes differ.  Personally, I've never had a
    problem with bookshelves made from 1x10x30" pine boards.  Over 30",
    no sag even with a set of encyclopedias.

It depends just as much on how the shelves are supported.  If their 5' 1x*
supported on the ends, they will sag allright!  If they're supported by a
wall rack 1' from the ends, they probably will not sag...

I move too often, so I prefer 'book boxes' that stack up, as opposed to builtin
or monolithic shelves...

Jim.

    Not having found anything which seemed appropriate under Keywords
    or Title search, I thought I'd put it hear; and give it keywordd
    "plans"...
    
    Some time ago I had solicited ideas for wall to wall bookshelves;
    well, now that I am in a house rather than an apartment, I have
    a whole (very small) room to play with.  
    
    So, now I'm looking for recommendations of books for ideas (pretty
    pictures will do fine) for the design of HOME OFFICEs/library. 
    Layouts and workcenters, various types of bookshelves, etc.  I'm
    feeling (foolishly) ambitious now :})
    
    Any recommendations ??
    
    Dwight (professional novice, and wood butcherer)

    Could you tell us the size of the room, number of windows, orientation,
    etc?  (Actually a diagram would be best.  EVE in OVERSTRIKE mode works
    well for creating VT line art.  Do it in a file on your system first,
    then INCLUDE it as part of a reply.) 
    
    I have a small office in my house and could offer some advice on
    cramped quarters if I could see what yours looks like.  I also made
    quite a few mistakes buying office furniture so I can relate that too,
    if you're interested. 
    
    -joet

    re: .0
    
    For books to look at for ideas, I would recommend the Sunset series
    of books.  The series includes books on many home repair topics,
    and I know they have books on shelves and storage ideas.  I think
    they would be a good source of design and building ideas.  Available
    in most bookstores.
    
    Marc

    I am in the process of creating a home office too.  After looking
    at desks and finding nothing that fit quite right, I wound up at
    OUI office furniture store on Second St. in Manchester, NH.  Besides
    all the pricey new furniture, they also sell used and odd pieces
    of office furniture.  I bought two large oak desk tops that originally
    came from some modular office set-up.  I paid $50 for both. One
    will be mounted on wall cleats in a little alcove and the other,
    well I'm not sure yet but I may buy/make some kind of legs or stand
    for it. OUI will also sell metal desk leg sets so you can use your
    own top.  It's worth checking out.  I'm also using some oak wall
    cabinets (kitchen type, but real plain and simple) that I got on
    sale at RIVCO on Amherst St. in Nashua.  In the end, for less than
    $200, I'm gonna have a nice office space, with real oak cabinets
    and counters, customed designed (by me) for my room. 

    Here's an approximation of the room's layout/dimensions.  Windows or
    doors are everywhere.
    
    
                     ~48"               ~48"     
		------------ window -------------
		|				|
	~52"	|   AA				|  
		|				|
		|			   DD 	| ~80" (?)
		w				|
		i				|
		n				|
		d				|
		o		      _  door __|
		w		      |
		|		      |
		|		  CC  |
	~51"	|  BB		      |~ 50"
		|		      |
		| 16"		   16"|
		----    closet    -----


	@locations BB, CC I had thought to build bookcases
	@location  AA was to be a built-in bookcase/desk/computer/workcenter.
	@location  DD is currently a foam couch; disposition indeterminant.

	I am looking for books with lots pretty pictures (Sunset series is 
	a good starting point) with ideas on (small) home libraries and office
	ideas.  Layouts and "hints", not office furnishings; I have two chairs
	and will build the "desk" to include a computer stand leg (Rainbow).

	I cannot afford/justify a professional designer for this small task.

	Dwight

    One easy way to create a desk is to buy an interior door and lay
    it across a couple of file cabinets.  It's practically foolproof;
    all you have to do is stain it an polyurethane it.  You don't even
    need to sand it.  And you can get them cheap if you find one that
    has as cosmetic defect on one side.
    
    Clay

    You might want to look into unfinished furniture, and finish it
    yourself.
    
    My husband is over 6 feet, we were looking for a desk that he
    could sit comfortably at, there were lots that were not comfortable
    for him. The one we decided on, we picked up at an unfinished furniture 
    store, it was the base for a roll top desk, you don't have to buy
    the roll top.

    Linda
    

    I turned part of our basement into an office/den 3 years ago (when
    my wife threw me out of what was my office and was to become a nursery
    - she said it was my fault anyway).  Biggest things I learned was
    to pay close attention to the sizes of the things you want to put
    onto the bookshelves, and to keep this at the front of your mind
    both when you lay it out on paper and when  you pay it out on person.
    If you want to get the most out of the space, meaning putting the
    most number of shelves in that you can, that is fine, but it is
    also the most unforgiving of designs, as a 1" mistake can turn your
    paperback shelf into a floppy shelf (I now have a 12' long floppy
    shelf).
    
    If this is a basement, as I think you said it is, I would also be
    sure to finish the floor with a subfloor, to make it comfy/cozy
    in the winter - another note deals with comments from myself and
    many others on how to do this.
    
    In general doing the builtin bookcases is a good first step for
    this sort of thing, as you a good bit of experience doing plans,
    etc., and on doing various types of joints/fastening.
    
    Doing a room such as this is also a good first project, because
    you don't have to worry about load bearing walls, etc., but you
    still have to do wiring and that sort of thing, so it's a good first
    major project.  I know where I goofed - but I've progressed through
    a finished family room and am now doing an addition, and I didn't
    make those same mistakes again.
    
    I found it more interesting to make new mistakes.
    
    good luck
    -reed
    

    When I think of a bookcase, I see a top 'shelf' (really the top
    piece of wood between the uprights) a bottom shelf and possibly
    one shelf in the 'middle' for strength.  The 'middle' shelf is 26-3/4"
    from the top of the bottom shelf using 3/4" stock.  This leaves
    13" of space on each shelf for notebooks (and anything else you
    want to put there).  You can get away with using 12" for the space.
    The other shelves float on metal brackets let in to the uprights.
    These look like small ladders that have shelf clips that lock into
    them to support the shelf.  I've found these to be the easiest to
    use to eliminate the 12' floppy shelf problem.  I've learned this
    from making the same mistake.  There are other techniques for floating
    shelves but either require precision drilling of holes or don't
    work well in pine.  just a tip for the bookshelf part of the project.

    As a suggestion for book shelves, if you don't feel like making
    them yourself...  Try a store like Scandinavian Design. They make
    wall unit pieces. You can get them in rosewood, teak, etc. BUT
    you can also get them in a laminated wood. They run about $80 a
    unit and come in depths of 12 or 16 inches. They make them in light
    and dark butcher block and other "simulated woods. They do not look
    like those ones where the wood effect is contact paper.
    You can get doors (both glass and wood), flip out desk pieces, lighting
    attachments and other type "additionans" for the units.
    
    The big plus is that Scandinavian Design, along with many other
    stores, have a warehouse store in Norwood of Rt. 1. There prices
    are great there and if you call before you go, they will often tell
    you what is currently in the warehouse so you will not have to make
    a special trip.

    There may be another place to ask this, but I'm overwhelmed by the
    size of this file.
    
    In my condo, one of the shelves in the hall closet is loose.  There
    are small strips of wood attached to the wall on the left, right,
    and rear walls, and the shelf just sits on top of those strips.
    It appears that the shelf was glued on, and came un-stuck. 
    
    What kind of glue should I use to attach it back?  Should I get
    a wood glue, or an epoxy (I'd rather not -- I can see myself with
    fingers stuck to the shelf!)
    
    Thanks
    Beryl

	Standard yellow wood glue and 4 volumes/ft should work fine.
	Britainica works better then Groliers.:-)

I am making two assumptions:

1 The closet walls is  dry wall material.
2 The strip is nailed to the wall studs (or should be)

If the strip is nailed, chances are that when the wood-butcher
who built it MISSED nailing it to the stud. Gluing will hold the
strip in place but not much else. If you can take the shelf out,
get youself these long dry-wall screws (about 2") and screw the
strip into the stud (usually in each corner). Then, I would try
to do the same for other strips since this one came loose, what
will the other ones do?

cal hoe 

I am building storage shelves in my basement.  The only
'attach-to-building' support is from *ABOVE* (the joists) because the
backing wall is concrete block.  The floor is cement.

The shelving area is about 2' deep x 10' wide, I want 3 
shelves, at 6", 2'6" and 4'6" height (joists bottom is at 6'6").

I was going to build 2 crosshatch frames out of 2 x 2s.  Then face 
them at one another so the horizontals were inward, and nail down
2' wide 3/4" plywood pieces across the horizontals.  The verticals
would be connected to the joists above (about 1 every 2.5'). 
I'd probably put a few cross pieces on the sides for extra support.

On the other hand, a friend suggested that I connect the horizontals 
with 2' x 2' cross pieces, giving me horizontal 'ladders'.  Then lay 
1 x 6s across the ladders.  This would be stronger, perhaps cheaper, 
and the 1 x 6s won't expand/contract.

Do these ideas sound solid?  What have other people done?

		thanx	/j

    I installed shelving on concrete walls by fastening 1" x 3"
    strapping to the walls..  I rented a "stud gun" ( probably not
    the correct name),which uses blank cartridges to drive fasteners
     through the strips into the concrete.  Then i simply used inexpensive
     shelving brackets.  My shelves are only 16" deep and were not intended
    for extremely heavy items.  But, over the years, we have
    stored coolers, etc, on them with no problems.

There are a number of things that you can do, including what you have already
suggested.

My solution in the basement is to use lag bolts and anchors, and go right into
the concrete blocks.  But then again, I like overkill, and don't ever have to 
worry about what I toss on the shelves!  8^)

I also had a similar situation in my garage.  I wanted the shelves to be very
deep (28"), very strong, and didn't want to give up any floor space for 
supports.  I used threaded rod (3/8", I think) and supported the shelves from
the ceiling as this crude drawing will attempt to show:

         ceiling
__________________________   I drilled and counter sunk holes in the 2x4's
 |      | :--: |        |    then inserted the rod, with a washer and nut
 |      |<:--:>|        |    into the 2x4, then lagged it to the joists above.
 |      |_:--:_|        |    This left a very secure network of threaded rod 
 |        :--:          |    hanging down, to which I simply attached some
 |________:--:__________|    3/4" plywood, with 2x4 stiffeners, at any 
          :--:               hight along the rod that I needed.  I did this 
          :--:               across the entire back wall of my garage, high
          :--:               enough so that I could still get the cars in.
                             Yields a deceptivly large volume of storage space.

I plan to do the same in the space above the overhead door this spring.  Should
be a great place to store lumber and sheet products.

Stole the whole idea from my local hardware store, which stores all of their
extra stock this way.  Probably a marketing gimick to sell more hardware! 8^)

Bob

    
    RE: .13
    
    Are you concerned with appearance?  How much weight are these shelves
    expected to hold?  You can attach wood bases to the concrete block
    with lag bolts/anchors, stud gun, or various other methods and then
    use shelf brackets.
    
    A good idea I've seen mentioned here and in books is to use threaded
    rod suspended from above.  Drill holes in the shelves, slid them
    on and use washer/nut to hold it.  Adjustable height shelves!
    
    Or you could build free standing shelves with the 4'6" shelf fixed.
    Drill holes and use adjustable shelf holders.
    
    I guess it just depends on what you require for looks, load,
    versatility and effort!
    
    Good luck...
    
    Phil

Isn't it great when notes get entered within 30 seconds of each other!  8^)

    
    Dang it all!  I've got to learn how to type faster! ;-)

    I needed some quick shelves in my shop that could be adjustable
    and put up fast. I bought a couple of standard 7 shelf metal
    shelving units, they are 6' tall but you bolt 2 3' sections 
    together one on top of the other. Instead of bolting them one on
    top of the other, I bolted them side by side and hung them from
    the ceiling. The result is adjustable shelves that are very light
    and can be moved as a unit. I mounted some steel angle bracket
    to the ceiling and bolted the front brackets to it and just used screws
    into the wall on the back. Lag bolts and anchors would work well
    on concrete. Just remember when bolting the units together, to
    screw as many sections together at the same time. I used the metal
    cross bracing between the sections as well, and the result is very
    stable shelves at a fraction of what I would have paid for lumber.
                                        
    
    							Chris

    1. Get waferboard (cheap) or 1/2" plywood (one sheet for each two
    shelves), a "bunch" of 2x3's, and a bottle of woodworkers glue.
    
    2. Rip the waferboard in half, giving you two 2'x8' shelves.
    
    3. Take two 2x3's, spread glue, and nail them to a shelf (along
    the long edges).  Cut pieces of 2x3 to fit between the ends, and
    glue and nail them in place.  Repeat for however many shelves you
    need.
    
    4. Take four of the remaining 2x3's and cut them to fit under the
    rafters.  Locate the shelf where you want it, and position the four
    2x3's around it (in about 1-1/2' from the ends).  Fasten the uprights
    to the rafters (have them extend up over the rafters and nail in
    place, add a cross bracket under the rafters, use metal brackets,
    etc.).
    
    5. Drill through the uprights and 2x3 shelf base and install a bolt
    and nut (I used 3/8").
    
    6. Slide next shelf into place, adjust to desired height, drill
    holes, install bolt (MUCH easier with two people!!)  Level, in both
    directions, after first bolt (learn from my mistakes...)
    
    Advantages: Cheap, fast, sturdy, no attachment to concrete, all
    weight on floor, can be moved (I moved some from one house to another)
    
    Disadvantages: "Does not present the appearance of fine furniture"

    
    FYI:  The Family Handyman, January 1989 issue, starting on
          page 46 gives endless ways to build utility storage
          shelves with drawings.  I am doing the same thing
          in our basement storage room.
    
                                         Mark
    

Thanks for all the help.  Here's what I did (last weekend):

The actual size of the structure is 9' wide by 2' deep.

I put 1 2x4x10 across the bottom against the back wall.  I nailed it
into the concrete using concrete nails. 

I put 4 2x3 studs across the back wall, (flat side sideways) on top of
the 2x4x10.  I nailed them to joists above (except one which I lag
bolted because a plumbing pipe was too close for nailing comfort), and
toe-nailed them into the 2x4x10 below.  (I had to notch these to maker
the go flush againt the wall - there was a pipe and a wiring pipe).
Then I put 2 2x4s vertically where I expected the front corners to be,
attached to the joists above.  Then I ran some strapping along the
'sides' to attach the front studs to the rear ones. 

Then I nailed 2 x 2s (actaully, 2x4s ripped in half) across the back, 
and across the front, at 6", 2'6" and 4'6" heights.  Then, I put 2
2x3s (flat side front) in front of the structure, and screwed them
into the 2x2s.  Then I nailed a 2x3 across the joists above, and
nailed the vertical 2x3s to the horizontal 2x3s.  I didn't nail the
vertical 2x3s directly to the joists because I didn't like where the
joists were located. 

Then I split sheets of 4x8 3/4" plywood in half (2x8s) and laid the 
shelving on the 2x2s and nailed it down (except the bottom shelf, in
case I ever need to get under it).

Seems strong enough, and I have 55 sq ft of really big, solid shelving
for about $50 worth of materials (the plywood was a bit expensive),
and 4 hours of my time. 

Top view

		X	X	X	X     <----2x3
                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx     <----2x2 (horizontal)
                ||||||||||||||||||||||||| 
                |||||||||||||||||||||||||     plywood shelf
                xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx     <----2x2 (horizontal)
		K       -       -       K     K = 2x4,  - = 2x3 the flat way
                

	If you nail the supports to the joists put a piecce of roof felt
	between the joist and the support.  Otherwise you can get a sqeak
	when someone walks on the floor above.  

	Brian

re: .23

Hey Brian!

   That reads just like a FHB "Quick Tip."    Send it in so we can see
a Noter in FHB!  8-)

                                           Bob

    
    
    I am building a book case.   I need those little plastic things
    I call it "stopper" to put the shelf on it.   I need them so
    the shelf is adjustable.
    
    I have searched local hardware store and find nothing.
    Anyone know where to buy it?

    The best one I saw can be hidden in the shelf, very nice.
    
    
    Jason

    woodworkers supply of new mexico 
    brass 15.00 per 100
    plastic 6.00 per 100
      
      I have purchased these at other stores also.
    
    
    
    Lou Raymond

    How about making your own out of a length of dowel.  Drill holes
    in parellal down the side of your vertical sides, cut dowel of same
    diminsion as hole to 1 inch lengths.  They can be stained or painted
    to match the bookcase.
    
    If that is too much work, look at the precut pegs used when edge
    glueing.  They have rounded ends, come in a variety of diminsions
    and are the correct length.

    Plywood Ranch sells the plastic ones for a reasonable price (just
    don't buy anything else there, the price is usually unreasonable.

    
    In LampLighter Square (across from the Pheasant Lane Mall in Nashua)
    there is a great woodworking shop that carries a huge assortment
    of tools and a good selection of hardware for cabinet making. 
    
    Or, if you plan loading the shelves down with books you'll need
    more strength so you could do what I did:
    
    	Buy the adjustable tracks (the kind with the brass clips that
    	snap into the track and can be adjusted in �" increments) and
    	route a channel into the walls of the bookcase to conceal them.
    	Turned out real nice.
    
    							* MAC * 

    Ahhh
    
    that store is knows as "Woodworker's Warehouse"
    
    aka  "Trendlines"

    
    RE: .0
    
    Care to give us a clue as to where you might be???
    
    Spag's does carry these.  I think they have the metal and plastic
    ones as well as the track stuff if you go the groove method.
    

    
    Thank you all.
    
    I checked the Woodworker's Warehouse in Nashua last week, they
    don't have it.
    
    I live in Westford, MA.  I guess I will find the plywood ranch store
    somewhere close.  There used to be one in Billerica but closed year ago.
    
    Where is the nearest Spag's? 

    
    RE: .7
    
    There is a Plywood Ranch in Acton on Rte 27, just before the Rte.
    111 intersection on the left as you head South.  
    
    > Where is the nearest Spag's? 
    
    There's only one!  Rte. 9 in Shrewsbury.

There's a Plywood Ranch on RT 28 in Salem NH, across the street 
from the State Liquor store.

daryll

    There's a plywood ranch off Exit 6 Nashua.
    
    That Exit 6 East about 100 yards on the right
    
    

    We have a wood stove that is on a brick base in the corner of a room
    with brick on the walls behind it.  Is there any way I can somehow
    add on a couple small brick shelves to the existing brick walls?
    I have seen this type of thing where the bricks used for the shelves
    are set in at right angles to the bricks forming the walls, but
    since my walls are already installed, how can I get the shelves
    to adhere?
    
    Sue
    
    

    Are you set on having the bricks as the supports for the shelf??
    
    One way would be to chisel out some existing bricks at the height
    you want to put in your supports.  Use these bricks turned at right
    angles and cement them back in.
    
    It would seem easier to use wooden or metal supports and just use
    bolts into the cement between the bricks.

    
    	If I'm not mistaken, the Ranch in Brikka (Billerica to you
    non-natives) burnt to the ground several years ago.
    
    					Frank

    Re: .9
    I think the "ranch" in Salem folded two or three years ago also.
    
    The ONLY 2 stores left from what used to be a large franchise are
    Nashua and Acton... both now privately owned!
    
    JD

There was an article recently about the store in Worcester reopening by the
same manager/owner as an independent. It stated that "Plywood Ranch" had gone
bankrupt and all had closed or converted to privately owned independent stores.

    In case you havn't found these yet:
    
    Moore's in Littleton has the brass ones; I'm not sure about the
    plastic.  That's 100 yards down Rt 119 towards Acton from Littleton
    Common (LKG).
    
    	Andrew
    

    I am looking for a note, which I read quite awhile ago, on a shelving
    unit for kids that uses Rubbermaid (or similar) dishpans.  It was
    also anchored to the wall somehow.  Can anyone recall where I might
    have seen this note?
    
    Joyce
    
    P.S. - If anyone has any additional ideas for toy storage, I would
    love to hear about it!
    
    

    It took some rummaging around but I think I have found the note
    you were referring to, 846.6.  I have added the keyword SHEDS&STORAGE
    to that note because it discusses storage ideas.  I found it using
    the keyword PLAY_STRUCTURES.  Oddly enough, the title for that note
    is Toy Storage Options.  Good luck with the project.
    
    By the way it has a nice VT100 graphics for those who keep track
    of such things.

    Thank you very much.  That's the one I was looking for.  I thought
    sure I had done a directory looking for anything with storage in
    the title ... but, maybe that was in the Parenting notes file. 
    This Notes File is so organized, I thought sure it would be under
    Sheds&Storage if it was in here.
    
    Again, thank you for the help!
    
    Joyce
    

    I am looking for a source for wrought iron shelf brackets. The shelf
    will be about 14" deep. I have found a few brass ones, but nothing in
    iron. Thanks
    
    Paul  

    Have you tried Renovator's Supply in Sturbridge Ma? They may have them.
    		Cindy
    

    I've got a question on load carrying capability of adjustable
    shelving.  I'm talking about the kind that consists of 2 or 3 shelf
    standards that you attach to the wall, it which you insert the flat
    shelf holders that sort of look like this.
                      _ 
      _______________| |    Anyone know how much weight these can support?
     |_| |            /     I'm talking about the shelf itself, not the
         |           /      attachment to the wall.  The standards are
      ___|__________/       screwed into studs with long screws.  I asked
     |_|                   at the store but they had no idea and I
    couldn't find any rating on the shelving.  I'm using these to hold
    manuals over my computer desk at home.  Manuals are heavy and I have 
    visons of the shelf coming down and destroying some expensive piece of
    hardware.
    
    	Thanks,
    
    		George

They vary.  You can get some which can support hundreds of pounds each; these
tend to have brackets which are folded over into an upside down U shape,
rather than the standard flat bracket.  You also want to get rugged support
strips and make sure the screws into the joist are solid.

				Steve

    I bought brackets and tracks at HQ, and they broke -- the weight of
    toys and books on 12" wide particle board shelves literally tore
    the brackets out of the tracks, ripping off pieces of metal under
    the slots in the tracks.
    
    So I bought the ones at Spags, which use visible thicker metal.
    No problems yet, and none expected.
    
    		Enjoy,
    		Larry

    See 5105 for the figure on steel, based on mfctr info.
    
    Colin

    "It all depends" on their design and how many of them you use.
    I've got some 8" Spag's brackets on something like 26" centers,
    I think, holding mega-books, and they seem to be fine.  If in
    doubt, put in an extra row of brackets.