Conference 7.286::home_work

    Well, I found one. Actually I found quite a few. 8' rated commercial
    class II is $108. 
    Company is Manchester Ladder Co. Inc, Rte 28 Windham, NH
    1 800 572 1811 (NH only)
    1 800 346 1247 out of state. 
    
    This place had several hundred ladders of all kinds and sizes. Prices
    seemed very good.
    They have a store in Worchester, and one in Maine, although the
    names is different.
    
    Gary

    I believe that Werner also makes this type, call it a 5_in_1 or
    something like that.  I think most of the True Value franchised
    hardware stores carry them.
    
    	Reg
    

    I bought a WERNER 5 Way ladder (10') at SPAGS...price MAY have been
    under $100 2 years ago...then again...atleast I'm sure I bought
    it at SPAGS...

    
    Time to activate this note again. I've searched the whole file and
    this is the only one dealing specifically with ladders (appropriate
    title eh?)
    
    I need to buy an extension ladder and as usual would not think of
    it without consulting the experts here. So...
    
    What do I look for? What makes a good ladder vs. a poor one?

    
    What are the "standard" sizes? (40ft. sounds familiar)
    
    Aluminum vs. Wood?
        
    Where is the best place to get one when I know what I want? I know
    Spags! but is the agrivation of trying to carry it on the roof from
    Shrewsbury worth the cost savings over my local outlet (Maynard)?
    
    							Thanks,
    
    								Mark
    
    P.S. I just used spell to check this memo. SPAGS IS NOT IN THE
    	 DICTIONARY!!!!!  What's wrong with those guy's?!?!?
    
    

The vast majority of extension ladders are aluminum, and they'll be the most 
available and probably cheapest.  I don't know much about wood ladders, other 
than the fact that they are heavier than aluminum.  They also make fiberglass 
ladders, but these are hard to find and very expensive.

Definitely go to Spag's, we bought ours at our lumberyard (where we get a 10% 
contractor's discount) and paid about $40 more than for the identical one at 
Spag's.  They have 3 grades of ladders, color coded yellow, blue, and red, for 
homeowner, commercial, and industrial use.  I'd buy at least the commercial 
type, and the industrial if I could afford it.  The homeowner's grade is 
usually rated to a max load of 250lbs or so, which I can currently overload by 
myself, :^( let alone with a bundle of shingles or a bucket of mortar.  For 
length, 40' is a VERY long ladder, and is going to be much more expensive, 
because it needs to be much sturdier to support the length.  A 40' homeowner 
grade ladder uses about the same gauge aluminum as a 24' industrial grade 
ladder.  What length is right for you depends how big your house is, but 
considering that you're not necessarily always going to live in the same house, 
I'd get at least a 24' ladder.  Get the ladder one length LONGER than you think 
you need.  We wound up buying a 28' ladder, and wish we had gotten a 32'.  

Good Luck
Paul

    re .-1  Definitely go to Spag's for the ladders.  I bought a 40'
    industrial strength one there last year for less than weaker ladders
    elsewhere.  
    
    A comment on the load limits - I bought the best one Spags had because
    it had a load rating of 250 lbs (in the 40' range at least) which
    I come very close to if I'm carrying anything.  A "homeowners grade"
    ladder at Spag's in a 40' length is only good for 200 lbs or less
    - check out the labels on the ladders before you buy.
                                                                        
    If you are light enough, it's probably not a bad idea to buy a ladder
    with a smaller load rating.  My industrial strength 40' is a real
    bear to carry and loads of fun to try and stand up next to the house.
    On the other hand, at maximum extension, it doesn't scare me with
    the bounce you get in the center of the ladder.
                                                   

    anyone have any experience with one of those new-fangle ladders
    that folds and open every-way but side ways ??
    
    I can't bring myself to trust one of these.

Consumer Reports did an article on the 'fancy extend' ladders within 
the last 6 months, I don't think their feeling was real good, but my 
memory may be incorrect.

    I'll echo a lot of the previous advice.  I bought the homeowner
    model at Spag's.  It is enough to support me and anything I'd be
    able to lug but it doesn't seem especially sturdy.  I do wish I
    had gotten to next grade up.  The ladders at Spag's usually go
    on sale in the spring and their price was tough to beat.  I'd say
    it would be worth a trip.
    
    As for length, I'd add get the longest one you can afford and the
    longest one you can STORE.  Sooner or later I'll need a longer
    ladder but right now I couldn't store one any longer.
    

    
    re: -2 about the fancy folding ladders.
    
    I actually have one of these.  I think it is wonderful.  I was worried
    that the joints would give way or not provide a sturdy support.
    Well, I was wrong, the joints are extremely sturdy and overall it 
    provides the same amount of strength as a regular ladder.  Plus, you 
    can do all kinds of things with it.  It is easy to carry, easy to
    store (stick it in any closet) and easy to fold/unfold.
    
    It certainly does not replace a good extension ladder - however,
    I would buy it before I would go and buy the 4 other ladders required
    to perform the same functions it does.  
    
        

>    re: -2 about the fancy folding ladders.
    
>    I actually have one of these.  I think it is wonderful.  I was worried

I actually own one, too.  I don't know how I got along without it up till now.
As previously stated, it's plenty stong and its verstility makes it 
indespensable.  I can fold it up and store it in the mudroom, making it much 
more readily available for those little odd jobs like changing the bulb in the
ceiling fan light or reaching the high spots in the cathedral ceiling during
spring cleaning.

A very handy tool...

						--Mike

I'm sure I've commented on this earlier, but that never stopped me before.

I suspect for straight up and down, aluminum is fine.  I've only used one
once in my life and that was carrying up one of those old fashioned storm 
windows up.  Some wind came by and almost blew me and the ladder down!  That
was the last time I ever used Aluminum and that was over 20 years ago.  Maybe
they've gotten safer, but they're so light I just can't see how!

I'll take wood any day, even if it weighs a lot.  Those will hold up under very
strong winds and you still feel secure.  enough...

As for length, remember that a 32 foot ladder consists to two 16 footers.  This
means that because of overlap, at best it's 28 feet long.

Just thought of one very important thing.  Can you separate an aluminum ladder
into two pieces like you can with wood?  This is extremely handy.  Two ladders
for the price of one!

-mark

    I finally sprung for a good ladder last year.  It's aluminum and
    is just as heavy as my wood one I just inherited from my DAD.  I
    think it's even more secure.  Remember that ladders, at least aluminum
    types come in 3 weights.  Type III, the std joe homeowner type is
    good for 200 ppounds.  This is Grossman's best.  Type II is a little
    better at 250 lbs.  Type I is the heavy duty at 300 pounds and is
    the only type that splits into 2 complete ladders.  The others also
    split but one of them has a rung missing where the locks are. 
    
    I feel very secure up on it but it is not easy to manuver.  It's
    also not cheap - $275 for 40 footer in 1984.  Manchester (NH) ladder.

when I was talking weights I wasn't talking the carrying weight of the ladder
but how much it weighs.  my 32 footer probably weighs around 75 pounds, maybe
more.  I also have access to a 40 footer and it's so heavy it's a MAJOR effort
to get it up by myself (I still wonder how I even manage)!

what are the weights of equivalent aluminum ladders?  I seem to recall hefting
a 28 footer and it probably didn't weight more than 25 pounds.

-mark

I'm planning on getting an aluminum ladder.  The only place I have to store
it is on the outside of my utility shed.  Any problem in keeping the ladder
outside year around?

Allen

    except for the fact that someone might steal it, no.
    (unless it's wood, then you better keep it dry)
    
    
    We've kept ours outside until I put a place to hang it in the garage
    (which is almost as wet as outside and always as cold as outside)
    
    
    We got ours at Moe Blacks in Waltham.  When it came down to it,
    their prices were just as good as Spags, and I didn'thave to go
    all the way to Shrewsbury to get it.
    
    
    
    -bill

    
    Thanks again for all the valuable info. Now that I have some idea
    of what I am looking for can someone give an idea on prices?
    
    Moe Blacks would be convenient for me. Just as a reference point,
    how much should I expect to pay for a 40 ft., highest grade, ladder
    at Moe Blacks?, at Spags?, locally?.
    
    Hope to get one this weekend. I'll let you know how I make out.
    
    						Mark
    

    
    Stopped at Moe Blacks (Waltham) on Friday night. I think a type
    II/blue-top 28' or 32', most likely the latter ladder ;-), will do for
    my purposes.
    
    	Type II, 28' - $135.99
	Type II, 32' - $169.99
    
    Friends Lumber in Burlington was about $40 - $50 higher for each.
    Anyone know how these prices compare with other places? Thanks
    
    							Mark
    

-mark

    those prices are aluminum.  
    
    
    I bought the aluminum 36' one at Moes last year,  it cost about
    $199.00 or so (the $169 price for 32' was the same then so the 36
    should still be the same)
    
    
    -bill

Wow!  That's big bucks.  

I know one of the big reasons people bought Aluminum ladders was that they were
a lot cheaper than wooden ladders.  Is that still true?  How much is a good
wooden ladder these days?

-mark

      Wooden ladders are more expensive AND MUCH heavier than aluminum
    ones.
      For example; an industrial-grade wooden ladder of 36' is approx
    $400 and I have 20', 24',and 32' indutrial-grade ladders (my father's
    a third generation painter), I can tell you they are HEAVY, but
    I feel safer on them. They tend to stay where you put them much
    better.
    					Kenny

    
    
    Just to add to this note.
    
    I just purchased a 36' industrial grade aluminum ladder at Spags
    this weekend (Mothers day) for $192. This is the best price I've
    been able to find.

    If anyone is still looking for ladders, you might want to try
    Chair City Paint & Wallpaper in Gardner Mass.  (617) 632-0389.
    Ask for Larry or Pete
    
    	I just ordered a 24 ft ladder and a 16 ft push up. cost for
    both ladders is $152 plus 15% handling and shipping.  These guys
    will sell you the ladders at wholesale cost plus the 15%.

    
    P.S.  these are heavy duty Commercial Aluminum Ladders

    

    I just got off the phone with the guys at Chair City and was very
    pleased.  I ordered a 32ft. heavy duty and they are going to 
    have it delivered to Vermont as part of the 15 %.  Their attitude
    was the main selling point.
    
    re. 24
    
    Mark P. , Pete told me to tell you that your order just arrived.
    
     thanks for the source.
    
                                          Jim

    RE: fancy folding ladders
    
    There is one that is 16 feet long (rather than the normal 13 or
    14 feet) in the US General Sale catalog for about $130.  Does anybody
    know anything about this ladder?  Brand?  Quality?
    
    I like the idea of ome that makes into an 8' step ladder if you
    need it.                                          
    
    Alex

        I inherited an old wooden extension ladder - maybe 16' extended.
    The uprights are less-than-2-by-4s, and the rungs are little more than
    1" or so sort-of-dowels.  It still seems sturdy.
        Problem:  it's bare wood.  Looks like it always has been.  (Well, maybe
    10% or so is covered with random drippings of paint.)  When it's not busy
    absorbing rain, it's bone dry.  A neighbor, after borrowing it (and
    returning it!) said something about it needing some linseed oil.  I'm
    wondering if it's the old thing - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.  I can
    just imagine it - applying the best wood-protector available, only to find
    out it reacted chemically with the exotic wood it's made with (I'm sure
    it's pine) causing rapid, unadvertised, and at-the-worst-time
    disintegration.  Most of this is unwarranted I'm sure.
        So do I paint it?  With what?

                                                          Jon Reckard

Modern wooden ladders come with an OSHA sticker (or some such) advising 
against painting.  Paint hides imperfections and joinery problems in wood; 
usually that's good, but in a ladder you want to be able to see any cracks 
or open joints.

    For the reasons mentioned in .2, the traditional treatment for wood ladders
    has been boiled linseed oil.  Nowadays, something like clear Cuprinol
    might be more appropriate.

    I used some boild linseed oil on some shiplap I wanted to keep clear
    on a 3 season porch.  It's been over a year and in some places it
    still looks sticky.  I have been meaning to use up some of the 2
    gallons of linseed oil I bought for my wood step ladder.  when I
    do I'm going to dilute it 2:1 with thinner.  
    
    If you haven't bought the linseed oil yet, I'd go with the clear
    cuprinol or something similar.  Linseed oil is the way 'they used
    to do it.'
    

    I've got some wooden step ladders that I inherited from my
    father.  They are probably 40 years old.  He has never done
    anything to them except keep them out of the weather.  Still
    in pretty good shape.  Steps are worn a little bit but...
    I think they've earned their keep.
    
    Gerry
    

What's the best working platform for house painting?

The house needs painting/staining and the funds dictate DIY.
                                       
Luckily, shingles are stained, so that's a breeze (relatively.)  Unfortunately,
much of the trim paint is cracking, alligatoring, etc., and will need scraping
and sanding before paint.  The trim includes eves at an altitude of ~23
feet.

I've Considered:
                                   
	Ladder alone
	Ladder Jacks & planks
	Steel Scaffolding
        Pump Jacks
                     
Ladder alone isn't stable enough for me to be on top of with a scraper, and I'd
have to move it every few feew. Ladder Jacks solve the latter problem but what
keeps you on the planks in a slip?

Rental cost for 3- 6' stages of the steel scaffolding complete is ~$200.
Taylor won't rent Pump Jacks, purchase is probably $200 including 2*4's,
bracing, planks, etc.

Any suggestions / recommendations / sources?
                
-Bruce Dishman

    Personally, I'd go with ladder jacks and planks.  If you're worried
    about falling off, sit on the plank, don't try standing on it.
    
    Steel staging is great stuff if you don't have to move it much.
    I don't know if I'd want to use it for painting.  It's a job to
    set it up, and taking it down and putting it up three or four
    times in one day would get old real fast.  If you have a place
    where you're going to need to work on something for a full day
    or more at one time, then it might be worth the cost and effort.
    
    Of course, you could buy a vast quantity of top-quantity of 2x4s
    and 1x6s and build your own staging for what it would cost to
    rent steel staging.  Not too many years ago carpenters ALWAYS
    built their own staging; just be sure you put on plenty of
    diagonals for stiffening.
    

    Best  steel scaffolding  $$$$$ (your price sounds high)
        I seem to remember getting them for $15/section/week.
    
    Next ladder jacks  Cost you 2 ladders and staging plank.
     		You also need help with the plank - 2 person job.
                Nothing holds you on the plank.  I either sit on 
    		the plank (make you sure you raise your butt off the
    		plank prior to a shift left or right biGG splinters.
    		Or I use one arm on the house while I walk and then
    		sit down.
    
    Ladder alone : secure but you got to move a lot.
    
    Punp jacks - least secure.  wobble wobble.
    		If you do this for a living, you get used to the wobble
    		It doesn't bother you since they are so easy to use.
    		Same thing as staging plank - no railing.

< Note 2288.0 by CURIE::DISHMAN >
                -< Ladder or Scaffolding or Pump Jacks or ??? >-
                                       
>Luckily, shingles are stained, so that's a breeze (relatively.)  Unfortunately,
>much of the trim paint is cracking, alligatoring, etc., and will need scraping
>and sanding before paint.  The trim includes eves at an altitude of ~23
>feet.

>I've Considered:
                                   
>	Ladder alone
>	Ladder Jacks & planks
>	Steel Scaffolding
>        Pump Jacks
                     

    Bruce, have you considered one of the 3-4' wide ladder stabilizers that 
is |______| shaped and is bolted to the top of your ladder? I have worked 
at the peaks of my house hanging trim and clapboards with only my ladder 
and the stabilizer, and found it very sturdy and easy ot work with.

    Benifits are:
    	o cheap - $17-$20
    	o light, one person handling of ladder
    	o easy to put on/remove from ladder
    	o spans most "normal size" windows so you can work/paint/scrape 
    	  entire window with one ladder setup.

    Bad news is:
    	o People tend to borrow it because it is so handly, and you have 
    	  one.
    	o Does not give you a "wide" footing at the bottom if that concerns
    	  you.

    	Vic H.

Even though this sounds like a broken record, I haven't played it in awhile.

I don't know why anyone would ever use an aluminum ladder, especially for all
the concerns previously raised!  I have both a 28' and 40' wooden ladder. When
not using them as ladders they double very well as staging.  Simply take one
apart and put a plank (such as a 2X10) over the rungs.  Also, I usually a leg to
support the middle so I don't have more than an 8 or 9 foot span.

I do like Vic's idea about the stabilizer, but not having an aluminum ladder I
wouldn't know. 

Finally, if you do use staging of any kind, please put up a railing.  There have
been several occasions where if there wasn't a railing, I'd be splatted!


-mark 

    Could you be a little more specific about the problem ??
    
    I've been dealing with them for years and have been pleased.   I
    must admit I've never had to have them back up a gaurantee though.
    
    Is it possible that you bought a 'cheap' ladder on one of those
    annual sales and all sales were final??
    
    I paid good money for mine and it's shown.

A similar problem, I have a painting job which I'm not sure how to approach... 

We have 3 windows across the front of our house. When our windows were
replaced, the carpenters nailed pine strapping, about 4" wide, thoroughly
around all 3 windows, and to keep consistent with the prior appearance, they
connected all three windows with the pine as well. 

15'    .----------------------------------------------------------. 
       |            |         |            |         |            |
       |  window    |         |  window    |         |  window    |
       |            |         |            |         |            |
12'    `----------------------------------------------------------'

where the dashes represent the wood.  I want to paint this wood. Since I'm
not a real pro, and will be using oil-based white primer on a dark yellow
house, I would also like to tape it first.  What makes all this difficult is
that the wood is 12-15' over the driveway, and/or 11-14' over the adjoining
flowerbeds. 

A 10' stepladder isn't high enough.  I could use my 24' extension ladder, but
it feels like it will take forever this way,  as I'd have to tape and paint
only a few feet at a time, and possibly behind the ladder. The ladder's also
not real stable (though the stabilizer mentioned in -.2 may be a good idea). 

Could someone tell me what ladder jacks are, and if they would help at this
height...otherwise, anyone have any ideas on other ways do to this? 

thanx/j 

Although this has been discussed elsewhere (I think), to tape or not to tape
is quite the religious question.  Personally I find it more trouble than it's
worth!  If you don't have a PERFECT seal, capillary action will suck the paint
right up under the tape and defeat the whole pupose.

I'm kinda crazy when it comes to working on ladders and wouldn't even think
about staging.  In fact, when I eventually get down to the ground, my biggest
complaint is that there's nowhere to hang the paint bucket.

Anyhow, back to your problem, I find one of the best ways to do close work is
with a sash brush.  Rather than cut square, the bristles are usually cut around
30 degrees or so forming a point at one end of the brush.  Also, when you're
painting and angle the brush, the bristles line up flat with your work.  Just
be sure to use a minimal amount of paint.

-mark

    I agree with .6 about the questionable advantages of taping, but
    on to the scaffolding:
    Ladder jacks are brackets that hook onto the rungs of a ladder to
    make a place to lay a staging plank.  You need two ladders (one
    for each end of the plank!) so I guess you'd have to borrow another
    ladder.  They look kind of like this, from the side:
    
	    	\\
	    	|\\
	        | \\
	        |  \\<---ladder
	        |   \\
	    	|____\\
	    	      \\
	    	       \\
	    		\\

        

    Is Spags still the place to go buy a ladder?  Did they have their
    `spring sale' yet?  How about their Mothers Day sale?  :-)
    
    Thanks.
    
    John
    
    P.S.  Actually, Spags is not exactly a hop, skip, and a jump for
    me, so other suggestions are welcome, especially for the So. New
    Hampshire/Northeast MA area.

    re:.29  What about B.J.'s in Salem, N.H.?  They may (I think they
    do) have ladders there.  Check out those prices.
    
    Chris D.

    You've missed Manchester Ladder's sale by two weeks.  They have
    a sale in the Spring and another in the fall, typically listing
    some items for half off.  They are on Rt 28 in Windham, NH.  They
    carry a full line of ladders from the homer owner risk your life
    stuff to the rail on rail steady jobs for contractors right on up
    to the fiberglass stuff you'd love to borrow off a phone truck.
    
    -Bob

    
    sells Lynn ladders for 15% above cost.  Spag's sells 'em for 20%
    above cost.  I ordered the exact ladder I wanted about a week ahead.
    It's a 28 foot (actually 25 usable feet) fiberglass industrial grade.
    
    --Th�r�se
    

       Got my 28' at BJ's a couple of years ago. About $20 cheaper than
    Spags.
                                                          Denny

    Thanks people!  For me, BJ's in tax-free Salem, NH appears to be
    the best choice.
    
    Now to activate my `anti-route 28 horrendous traffic/BJ's crowd'
    shield.....  :-)
    
    John

    
    I checked out BJ's before I bought my ladder from Spag's (about
    2 years ago) and BJ's was cheaper, but it was of comercial grade
    only, while the ladder I got at Spag's was of industrial grade.
    The comercial grade Spag's carried was about $40 cheaper then BJ's.
    
    Spag's everyday price is at least $100 less then Manchester Ladder's
    sale price. I live in Manchester, so I thought I'd get a good buy
    by buying from a local company, but I couldn't believe their prices.
    
    Prices 2 years ago for 32' ladders.
    
    		Spags	Grossmans	BJ's		Manchester Ladder

    Home 	145	150		150		200
    Comercial	160	200		170		240
    Indust.	190	NA		NA		310
    
    Mike

    re: .35
    
    Thanks, gotta make sure it's apples vs. apples.....
    
    How about brand names?  It appears that the most important comparison
    between ladders is the type or grade, but are there brand names
    to look for?  Or is it so minor that it's not important?
    
    Thanks again,
    John

    Spags caries Werner ladders, and it just happens there is a sale
    this week.
    		       	Save $5  up to  $50
                       	Save $10 up to  $100
                       	Save $15 up to  $150
                       	Save $20 up to  $200
                       	Save $25  over  $200
                                        
                                                      Chris

    Hi!,\
    I too am in the market for a new ladder,
    Just got off the phone with Manchester Ladder...
    for a Type II--commercial ladder:
    28'----$144
    32'---- 177
    
    just for current comparisons...
    
    deb
    

    re: .38
    
    Here's some more prices for current comparison.....
    
    At Builder's Square, Nashua, NH:
    
    28' Commercial (type II) - $153.95
    32'     "          "     - $172.95
    
    John

    I was told that red cap was commercial and blue cap was industrial.
    What, then, is a yellow cap?
    
    Chris D.
    

are you folks talking wood or aluminum prices?

-mark

    FYI,
    I noticed that Spag's is having an "up to 10% off" sale
    on their ladders this week.   Prices, selection are covered
    elsewhere in this note.
    
    The AD was in the Sunday Telegram (worcester paper) and
    the sale was in the form of a 'coupon' good for 5$ of
    (up to $50), $10 off (up to $100), etc.
    
    Good deal considering their 'normal' ladder prices are reasonable.
    
    /Russ
    

For what it's worth - Manchester Ladder, rte 28, Windam, NH, is having their 
fall sale September 8 and 9.  7am to 5pm on the 9th, 8am to 3pm on the 9th.  
I've extracted the following extension ladder prices from the Nashua Telegraph, 
September 7.



	Household	Commercial	Industrial	Industrial
	Aluminum	Aluminum	Aluminum	Fiberglass
	OSHA III	OSHA II		OSHA I		OSHA 1A ("D" rung)

16	$49.75		$78.50		$95.65		$142.20

20'	$68.75		$95.50		$117.65		$172.20

24'	$89.75		$117.50		$141.65		$204.20

28'	$113.75		$144.50		$175.65		$235.20

32'	$141.75		$177.50		$216.65		$324.20

36'	------		$206.50		$261.65		------

40'	------		$241.50		$289.65		------

    I bought a type I 28' ladder in Spag's in July(ish) for $189.99 + $9.50
    tax.
    And bought a type 1 36' ladder there a week or so earlier for $259.99 +
    $13.00 tax after a $25.00 discount

I'm having problems locating ladder jacks.  Any suggestions?  I live in
Pepperell, Ma

Allen

    Spags is also having  a ladder sale; the prices are in the insert
    in the Worcester Sunday Telegram, which I've already tossed into
    the recycling bin never to be revovered..
    
    ...tom

    And then  there is the Tri-state ladder sale (Worcester) goes till
    Sept. 16 Saturday at 3pm. 1-800-462-8001 or 508-754-3030
    
    Al Extension
    
    
    length           type 3   type 2     type 1
    16                49.75     68.50     95
    20                66.75     83.50     112
    24                83.75     95.50     123
    28                105.75    126.50    161
    32                135.75    142       175
    36                          178       222
    40                          208       251
    
    These prices are a littel better than the spags sale (5% or so?)
    
    gjd

I'd like to make a plug for using pump jacks... then ask a related question.

re: wobble problem.

This is solved by using 1"x3" strapping cross bracing from pole to pole.
When you've pumped about 12' high, and wobble starts to be a concern:
Make an X formation of 2 pieces of strapping against a pair of poles
and nail the two pieces of strapping together.
This solves wobble in the direction from side to side on the house.
If wobble to/fro the house is a problem, I nail a 3' long piece of
scrap strapping from the pole to the house to stop that.

The wobble is also not much of a problem until 50% up the pole, and then
only if the pole is more than say... 24 feet or so.

I have been using them for years, and one problem that I have, and that
contractors do not have, is deteoration of the poles. A contractor takes
some 2"x4"x16', nails 'em together, uses 'em, and then tosses them away
when the job is complete. Makes new poles for the next job. In my case,
I stain a side or two of the house every other year, so reuse the same poles.
After a few years... I find them getting more rickety and unstable, needing
more strapping for me to feel comfortable.

My latest solution to this problem has some pros and cons... and I wonder
if anybody can offer some advice on this. I figured it would be cheaper
and just as safe (is it?) to spend more $$$ on pressure treated 16 footers
(were about $6 apiece) that will last rather than use cheaper non-PT
lumber that needed to be thrown away much sooner. The major problem I've
run into so far is that PT wood is much much heavier, and it was a real
chore for me to upright the smallest pole I needed (24'), and a major
job to upright the 28' and 32' poles. I lucked out having some landscaping
people over and 4 of us (3 burly types... I leave it an exercise to the
readers of this note to figure out which of the 4 was not burly... :-) )
huffed and puffed to get that 32' up.

Is there any structural problems related to using the PT wood? If left
out in rain, is it any more brittle or any other negative quality that
I should be aware of?

re: .-1 ... I'd like to add to my reply, and pose a question:

What might be a good method to lower my pump jack poles. I can disconnect
them, and let them fall (after using the internationally accepted
standard warning signal by yelling "TIMBER"). I've used this method,
and often the pole will break as it hits the ground... especially if
the ground is uneven. I figure with PT wood, which may be a bit more
brittle, this may have an even better chance of happening.

Any ideas on how I could rig some clothesline with some pulleys?
Where would you put the pulleys? where would you anchor them? is one
enough? or are 2 needed to get the best mechanical advantage? I'd prefer
not to have to anchor anything to the pole itself, and just tie a rope
around it. This way, the technique would be extensible to all poles without
having to buy a ton of hardware to have a hook or pulley on each pole.
One hook mounted on the roof would be okay... with enough rope, it could
be used to lower any pole on that side of the house.
Also, where is the best place to stand to lower the thing? The design could
be that your stand on the roof and let go of rope to lower it, or alternatively
the design could be stand on the ground to let go of rope to lower it.

any ideas?

You'll need at least two people with ropes to keep the thing pointed 
in the right direction.  Three would be good, with two on the roof
and one on the ground.  The two on the roof hold the weight,  and are 
spread apart from each other. The one on the ground steers.
Remember that you'll also need to anchor the base so it doesn't 
skitter off and bash through the side of the house when the angle 
of the post gets low.

- tom]

My latest thinking is to put an eyehook on each pole near the top.
A Pulley is then attached to this point when that pole is raised or lowered.

Another eyehook is put in the middle of each side of the house. A
pulley is then attached here too when that side of the house is worked on.

The eyehooks are permanent, and the pulleys are attached as needed.
Thus I need only two pulleys that are transported to the side of the
house being worked on. I need alot  of eyehooks though: 1 for each side of
the house, and 1 for the top of each pole.

Then, standing on the roof, and holding onto a rope that goes to the
pole pulley, back to the house pulley, and then back and tied to the
pole, the pole can be lowered. Another rope tied to the top of the pole
is held on the other end on the ground by another person to guide
the pole on its way down.

I've forgotten my physics courses, but imagine some formula there
would apply in determining the weight the roof person will have to hold.
I think it should be 1/3 of the force exerted by the pole. My nextdoor
officemate thinks it should be 1/4 of the force exerted by the pole.
Anybody know how to figure this out?

thanks.

d

    re: .9
    
    Regarding the safety part of using PT wood - I very much doubt
    that the PT wood is less safe.  If you leave the poles out in
    the weather, the PT poles will last much longer.
    
    Money is probably an issue, but I'll add this anyway.  If you
    plan on using your pump jacks often, you could consider buying
    the aluminum poles and jacks.  A 24' aluminum pole is NOT cheap;
    cost is about $260.  Then you have to buy the jack ($80) and
    brace ($40) for the aluminum pole.  This is alot of money, but
    just may pay for itself over 10+ years.
    
    
    Mark
    

    I am in the market for a ladder. My problem is, I know the quality
    of ladder I'd like/need, BUT the $$$ is really up their.
    
    So what I thought I'd do is purchase one of those "Multi-purpose"
    ladders, BUT it seems they are not long enough. I need a 20' 
    extension ladder for household duties.
    
    My question here is, do they make the Multi-purpose ladders in the
    size I need? If so, are they strong enough (I do not like real shakey
    ladders)? What would the general cost be for this type of ladder.
    
    In case "Multi-purpose" is my own label, the ladder I'm thinking
    of looks like this:
    
    				O		O		
    			       / \	       / \            
    			      /   \	      /   \          
    			     /     \	     /     \	    
    			    /       \	    /       \
    			   /         \	   /         \
    			  /           \   /           \
    			 /             \ /             \
    			[	        O	        ]
    
    They are advertised on TV quite often. The ones on TV look smaller
    then what I need.
    
    Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.!!

    Does anybody know approx. when Spag's might be putting their ladders 
    on sale again.
    
    I need approx. a 20'er.
    
    Thanks in advance
    
    Tim B.

    Probably a week or so after you buy it somewhere else.  :*)
    
    Lee

This looks like a good place to tack on this note, but please feel free to
move me, Mr. Mod(s).

I'm working on refinishing the cedar shingles on my 35 year-old Cape.  I'm
moving to a gable end of the house; the problem of staging has reared its
ugly head.  I have some conventional pipe staging which is great for the
first eight or ten feet, but above that it's too dangerous.  I think I'd
like to use pump jacks.  Could I get some help with the following questions?

1. What is a typical cost for a set of pump jacks and the staging plank that
   spans the jacks?

2. What is the maximum allowable span?  Does the allowable span depend on
   a choice of staging plank thicknesses?

3. Is the lift dependent solely on the height of the vertical columns?  Are
   these vertical columns best constructed of lapped 2X4's, or would folks
   recommend buying mondo-long 4X4's?

4. Fastening the vertical columns to the wall: I assume the 'V members' 
   are lagged to studes in the wall, which one can access after removing
   a shingle.  Is this correct?  What type and size of fastining hardware
   is appropriate?

5. Is there an alternative approach to this whole problem that I've not
   considered?  As mentioned above, I've decided that assembling pipe 
   staging is too tedious and risky above a certain height.

6. Finally, could someone point me to a source for such hardware?  I'm
   located in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts.

Thanks for your help,
John Kelly

1. What is a typical cost for a set of pump jacks and the staging plank that
   spans the jacks?

since i built my house, i have 5 pump jacks, and a bunch of full 2" stock
planks. if you want to rent as opposed to buy, send me MAIL.

2. What is the maximum allowable span?  Does the allowable span depend on
   a choice of staging plank thicknesses?

I try to keep it around 12 feet. i aim for the plank to overspan each
side be a foot. more than that, and forget about the seesaw effect,
and bad things happen. less than that causes problems with changing heights,
with one side high and the other low.

3. Is the lift dependent solely on the height of the vertical columns?  Are
   these vertical columns best constructed of lapped 2X4's, or would folks
   recommend buying mondo-long 4X4's?

these jacks are designed for lapped 2x4's. 4x4's would give a slightly
different dimension. its also cheaper this way.


4. Fastening the vertical columns to the wall: I assume the 'V members' 
   are lagged to studes in the wall, which one can access after removing
   a shingle.  Is this correct?  What type and size of fastining hardware
   is appropriate?

along with the jacks, there are braces. i attach one brace per column
to the roof, and if the vertical span is very great, i add another one
in the middle. the other thing i do when up high is add crossmembers
between the columns in an X fashion. 1x3 strapping works fine. makes
the platform very stable. if i'm feeling kinda wobbly that day, i'll
even add a handrail from column to column. i use those double head
nails (i forget what they are called), but makes it easy to nail into
the column and then remove the nail to move the handrail/bracing/etc
elsewhere.

6. Finally, could someone point me to a source for such hardware?  I'm
   located in Shrewsbury, Massachusetts.

if interested in using mine, i'm in acton, work in marlboro.

How high can one go safely with steel scaffolding?  I would have thought 
steel scaffolding would be safe to reasonable home heights (20-30 feet), but
an earlier note (.16) mentioned that pipe staging is only good to 8-10 feet.
Is pipe staging the same as steel scaffolding?

Can steel scaffolding be rigged to be stable on a slope?  Are there special legs
for this, or do you just use scrap wood to build up the low side?  Are there
any tricks to doing this safely?

   Gary

    I don't see why .16 says pipe staging (which I assume is the modular
    steel section stuff) is dangerous over 8-10'.  Heck, they built
    a web of the stuff a couple hundred feet high, or whatever it was,
    around the statue of liberty when they refurbished that.  I've
    gone up 3 sections (about 18') with it with no problem.  Now, you
    DO want to be sure it's solidly seated, and you do want to be sure
    to use all the cross braces, and such, but that's not hard.
    You can get (and ought to get) adjustable screw feet for it when
    you rent it (I assume you'll rent).  The ground is never level enough
    to just set the stuff up, unless you're on the salt flats of Nevada
    or something.
    Take a *lot* of time to set it level, on a good solid base; do a
    little local leveling of the ground, if necessary, to get good
    bearing surfaces, and put down some good solid, wide planks so the
    feet don't sink into the ground.  Use a level and get the sections
    truly vertical or perhaps sloping every so slightly inward toward
    the house.  If you do that, no problem.
    

    When I was in college I worked summers for WACO scaffolding in
    Watertown, Ma. I recall one job where we rented scaffolding to a mason
    that was repairing the steeple of a church in Watertown Sq. Easily went
    up over 100ft. Just like an erector set. I believe there are also ways
    to tie the structure to the building, similiar to the way pump staging
    is tied to the roof.
    
    A related sotry: We rented some scaffolding to a company that was
    repairing a dock in Charlestown, Ma. The scaffolding was to sit on top
    of the dock while two men were on a platform that hung over the edge of
    the dock just a couple of feet above the water. To counter balance the 
    whole thing two 55 gal drums were filled with water and placed on the
    scafolding base on top of the dock. Well everything went fine untill it
    was they were finished. When they began to dismantle the scaffolding
    guess what they took off first? Yes, the two 55 gal drums of water.
    Well, into Boston Harbor went the scaffolding. 

    I'm looking to buy a tool that attaches to one of the leg on a ladder to
    make the ladder stand leveled on an un-level ground. I don't know what
    it call but have seen it in Somerville Lumber couple years ago. I was
    at SL last night and the salesman said they don't sell this tool
    anymore. Does anyone know where I can buy one ? how must does it cost ?
    
    Ken.
    
    

    There's a mail-order catalog from a place called "Leichtungs"
    (I think that's how it's spelled) which had them in their last
    catalog.  Unfortunately, I'm in the middle of moving and have
    pitched/stored a lot of paperwork so I can't give you the address.
    Perhaps the "catalogs" notesfile might have an address.

    The phone guy who replaced my line to the pole (with 6 pair) had a
    wedge shaped device made out of plastic that was great.  One leg of the
    ladder fit into 'sockets' and you picked the one that 'balanced.  I've
    never seen one anyplace.
    
    There are types that attach to the leg and extend down, but these scare
    me.
    
    	-Barry-
    

    Try Lynn Ladder (in Mass) or guess who else?
    
    Spags, (but not near fish and tackle)

I believe Brookstone carries such an item.

		Steve

    
    May want to try Manchester Ladder on By-pass 28, in Windham, N.H.
    They sell all kinds of ladder, scaffolding and stuff.
    603-434-6911                                               
    
    
    

    Just checked, spags does NOT carry a ladder leveler

    My husband brought a 40 FT aluminum ladder. It is hard for one person
    to move it around after it extended. Is there any way to make the
    move easier? Any suggestion is appreicated. Thank you.

    
    It may sound awfully silly ... but ... move it prior to extending!!
    
    I also have a 40 footer industrial grade and agree that it's difficult
    to move after extending.  Hell, it ain't THAT easy prior to extending.
    If I need to move it after I've extended it, I just fold it back up.
    
    I'm afraid that's the nature of the beast.

Good luck.  Does he really need a 40' ladder?  One should never purchase
a ladder longer than 32' unless you absolutely need it.  Figure the adverage
person can reach up to around 8'.  That's half way up a 32' ladder that's
unextended.  Anything longer than that and when you stand it up and reach as
high as you can, you've got more over your hand than under it.  Soooooo,
you're below the balance point and its a real pain to control/move that
ladder.  

If he's having trouble moving it, one rule would be to fully retract it before
moving.  The best you can do is lay your shoulder against the ladder and reach
up as high as you can grab and down as low as you can grab and pivot the ladder
off your shoulder as the fulcrum to balance it as you move it. Also, there's no
shame in having a helper, even if only to spot for power lines. 

-Bob

    Use more people.  The fire department would use at least 4 people to
    move a 40 ft. ladder.  Some ladders that big have things called
    "tormentor poles".  These are poles which are attached to the top end
    of the ladder.  Each pole has one person who assigned to the pole.  The
    pole is used to steady and help lift an extended ladder.  You might be
    able to accomplish some of the usefulness of tormentor poles by using
    ropes tied to the end of the ladder.  

    One person would stand at the butt of the ladder and make sure the
    bottom does not move.  One person would lift the ladder and begin to
    raise it by moving hand over hand starting from the top of the ladder
    working his way towards the butt.  This would continue to lift the
    ladder.  While the ladder is being lifted, the two people with the
    ropes could pull on the ropes and help to lift the ladder.  Initially
    the rope people would be on the butt end of the ladder and walk away
    from the butt towards the structure.  As the ladder got higher in the
    air, the rope people would begin to move outwards away from the butt to
    the left and right.  As the ladder nears vertical they would play out
    more rope to let the ladder rest against the structure.  If something
    goes wrong, they can always tighten their grip and help keep the ladder
    from falling and hurting someone.

    You might also try to get the ladder in the upright position before
    extending it.  That way you are dealing with a heavy but shorter ladder
    during the most difficult lifting period.  Once in a vertical or near
    vertical, raise the ladder extensions (flys) to the needed height and
    lean against the structure.

    Hopefully, you know the proper angle for a ladder to rest against a
    structure.  Put your feet on the ground with your toes on the butt of
    the ladder.  Hold your arms straight out at shoulder height towards the
    ladder.  If your back is straight, toes touching and you can grasp the
    rungs comfortably, the ladder is at the proper angle.  If you have to
    bend your back or knees, move the butt closer to the structure.  If you
    have to bend your arms, move the ladder further away from the
    structure.

    Always take tie the ladder to the structure so that it does not slip
    away from the building.  Always make sure the ladder extends 2-4 ft.
    above the roof line.  This will make it easier to get on and off the
    ladder.  Check the max. lb. rating for your ladder.  Most residential
    ladders are rated at 200 lbs. max.  That means materials *and* people
    total. (Tough for me since I weigh 200 lbs.)  The next level up is
    usually 225 lbs. and commercial are rated at 250-300 lbs.  If you have
    multiple people on the ladder, try to space them out on the ladder so
    that all the weight is not in one place. 

    If the ladder is wooden, never paint it.  This will hide any cracks
    which may develop over time.  A clear finish would help protect the
    wood from weathering if you feel a need to put some kind of finish on
    the ladder.  You might want to paint the last 1 or 2 feet a bright
    color so that you can see it more easily.  If you do paint it, paint
    only the outside of the rails, this will leave the inside of the rails
    available for inspection.

    Sorry I got so long winded.  As a member of the local fire department,
    we do a lot of training with ladders and safety plays a large role in
    our training.

    Not intended to take the subject off track, but -.1 raised good
    points about maintaining wooden ladders, and not painting them.
    
    I bought a wooden Type I "longie" a while back; seller suggested
    using raw linseed oil, which I've used on other things from time
    to time.
    
    It did a good job; I'm not aware of any reason it shouldn't be used.
    
    	tony

    Well, as long as you have the subject off track, I though that 'raw'
    linseed oil would never dry.  Shouldn't 'boiled' linseed oilbe what's
    used here ??

    -.1
    That was always my understanding, too. Only linseed oil I had ever used
    (for furniture finish/blends,etc.) was the boiled.
    Maybe it had to do with the dryness of the ladder wood and rate of
    absorption or something. I checked it out on one leg (of the ladder :-)
    first; worked ok, if applied sparingly and worked in well.  
    
    Could be I just got lucky w/the raw stuff, I don't know, but I suppose
    it'd be hard to go wrong w/boiled for this application.

Prompted by this file (and a somewhat pyrotechnic nature) I left some rags
soaked in linseed oil and turpentine out in the sun yesterday and, sure enough,
they burst into flame.

    I've seen a carpenter move an extended ladder without assistance.
    What an old pro sometimes does is get the ladder in a perfectly
    vertical orientation, slip a rung over a shoulder, and, holding it
    perfectly vertical, and moving very slowly, just walk with it.
    This does not work well on uneven terrain or windy days.
    
    It's quite a balancing act.  I've used that technique on a much
    smaller aluminum ladder that was extended to about 16', but would not
    trust myself with anything truly heavy.

    I've watched this technique used by my boyfriend - successful I might
    add. Later on I tried my own technique (I was warned not to move the
    ladder by myself), and almost lost a window in the house. I never would
    have imagined how difficult it is to balance a very tall ladder (must
    have been at least 40' since not extending it will cause it to reach
    the roof line of a colonial house). Needless to say I've learned my
    lesson. 
    I'll practice away from breakable objects first!
    				Cindy

    I just started looking around for ladder.  After reading the replies in
    this note, I gave Manchester Ladder (reply 1) a call.  The phone was
    answered as "Northeast Ladders" (or some such) and, after a few moments
    of confusion, I was informed that they no longer sell retail.

         Re:  .50
         
         Oh, that's not-good news!  I am in the market for a ladder
         and I heard they had good prices.  I'd like to hear of any
         exceptional places to buy a ladder.  I'm looking for a 12'
         ladder that expands to about 20'.
         
         A few years ago I needed a ladder and made one out of scrap
         wood that was laying around.  Turns out the two side rails
         were 2x4 oak, 12' long.  The ladder weighs a ton!  Now the
         boards have warped so it has a wicked curve in it.  I guess I
         could make another out of store-bought fir 2x4's.
         
         Nancy

is a ladder really as long as it as sold as?  there is some overlap when 
fully extended and i cynically assume that this is stolen from the advertised 
length leaving a working length about 2 or more feet shorter.  yes or no?

also, is there a rule of thumb for length needed to get to a certain height?
besides the 1 foot out for each 4 feet up, how much extra do you need at the 
top so you don't have to stand on the top rung spread eagled against the 
wall?

i don't want to buy more than i need as the 4 extra feet between 32 and 36 
costs an extra $50.

craig

    	As a rule, and I have a catalogue in front of me, the working
    length is 3' less than the nominal length. So a 32' extension ladder
    has a working length of 29' (minus the slope). And a 36' ladder has a
    working length of 33'. I hope this helps. If you are buying a new
    ladder, I would go for the longer of the two IF you think you might use
    the extra length. $50 now is much cheaper than the price of a new
    ladder ($450-500 for a 36' fiberglas).

    	CB

    I'd allow about 4 rungs at the top - figure that if you're standing on
    the 4th rung down, the top rung will be about at chest height,
    where you'd want it to hold onto.  (Modify according to how tall
    you are and what you feel comfortable with....)  
    
    An overlap of 3' isn't much, although that may be structurally
    sufficient.  I'd encourage you to allow more, to give a bit more
    stiffness.  A long extension laddder extended to its maximum can
    be pretty bouncy, even a good one.
    
    If you need a 36' ladder, buy one.  Don't try to stretch a 32' ladder.
    On the other hand, moving a ladder that big around is difficult.  I 
    can just barely handle a Type III (or is it type I?  The "heavy-duty" 
    grade) 32' aluminum ladder by myself.  I doubt that I could move a 
    36' ladder by myself.

    
    My 32' ladder consists of 2 18' ladders. That means that there is a 2'
    overlap, which is plenty.
    
    Mike

>    My 32' ladder consists of 2 18' ladders. That means that there is a 2'
>    overlap, which is plenty.

Wrong.  It means there's a 4' overlap.  The total extended length is
(18-overlap)+(18-overlap)+overlap.

    
    I guess it depends upon how you look at it. Only 2' of the ladder when
    fully extended are overlapped. If you think that there's 4' overlapped,
    then when the ladder is fully collapsed, there should be 36'
    overlapped.
    
    Mike

<-------------32'-------------->
<-------18'------>
              <-------18'------>
              <-->
                ^
                |___4'

With no overlap, you would have a 36' ladder.  Slide the top ladder down 4' to
make a 32' ladder and you have a 4' overlap.  Slide it down 18' to make an 18'
ladder and you have an 18' overlap.  Count the characters in the diagram if you
don't believe me.

								-- Chuck Newman

    I guess it depends upon how you look at it.  The total overlap (of both
    18' sections is 4') but the "actual" overlap I would say is 2', since
    2' of one section overlaps 2' of the other section...
    
    Just my 2 cents...
    
    Steve

re .59:  

> since 2' of one section overlaps 2' of the other section...

This is where the logical error lies -- you are forgetting that the
part where the sections overlap is part of the total length of the ladder.
Check out the diagram in .58 -- one can reason lots of different ways, but
the only correct reasoning is that which agrees with actual measurements
of how much overlap there is when the ladder is extended to 32'.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    re .54
    It IS type 1. (there is also a type 1A that is even sturdier)
    You are probably underestimating your ability a tad. 
    I am 53 and have lead a sedentary life most of it. I sort of
    man-handled a 36ft. type 1 aluminum. For me, the most difficult part
    was moving the ladder from the ground up to be leaning against the
    house. It was sufficiently large as to be unpractical (as in not
    necessary) as well as being very cumbersome, so I sold it. If i ever
    feel the need for a second ladder, it will definitely be another 32'
    type I.
    For comparison, my neighbor is 57 and carried the 36fter around my yard
    VERTICALLY. He was an electric company linesman and is now an executive
    type. I have seen him do the same thing with a 36' wooden ladder.
    
    
    			herb

    re: .61
    Moving the ladder isn't a problem for me; standing it up by myself is
    (as you note as your biggest problem with the 36').  I'm sure I could
    CARRY a 36' ladder, but I have serious doubts about my ability to
    stand it up.

I bought a 40' ladder from a guy -- on condition that he show me how to 
stand it up.  The method he showed me works like this:

	1)  set one end on level ground, flush against a wall.

	2)  Grab the other end & walk forward with your hands
	above your head.  Don't let it tip to either side.  When
	you pass the halfway point it feels a bit scary, but it
	can't tip backwards if it is grounded against the wall.

	4)  Once it is upright, ease the end against the wall out
	to the proper angle for climbing the ladder.

I actually wish the ladder were about 8' shorter, but it was a good deal.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

I need a multi purpose ladder (or whatever the beast is called) for painting,
etc. The house we are in at present has cathedral ceilings and the like that
are up to 17ft high. I would like to invest in a rig that will be versatile 
and allow these ceilings and future 'needs', such as stairs, ceiling fans and 
exterior decks/walls, to be accessed for painting etc.

I have some literature on two items that might fit the bill. One is called 
a Maxi-Pro and the other is called a lada-scaff. The Maxi-Pro is basically
3 sections of ladder that can go together in various ways, such as
                               
                              /
         |                   /
         |W         /       //                      /
	/|a        /        /                      /
       / |l       //       //          /\         //\
      /  |l       /        /          /  \        /  \
_____/___|  OR   /   OR   /     OR   /    \  OR  /    \


The Maxi-Pro can also be used as a scaffold if an extra plan kit is purchased.

The lada-scaff is an telescopic A frame that allows one leg to be shorter than 
the other; can be straightened out into one long extension ladder; has an 
adjustable angle between the legs, i.e. one leg of the A frame could be 
vertical; and can form a small or large A frame. 

They both come in various grades and sizes (all are aluminum). The price from
Nationwide Ladder in Windham, NH for type II (225lbs) is as follows:

                       EXTENSION          STEPLADDER
            Model   Height  Work Ht.    Height  Work Ht.   Scaffolding  COST
Maxi-Pro  :MP2-3x9   21'7"   24'7"       15'      18'       3' - 5'     $395
Lada-Scaff:LS2-4x5   18'6"   21'6"       9'       12'       1' - 5'     $337

QUESTIONS:
[1] Has anybody heard of or used/seen any of these. If so are they any good ?
[2] Can somebody suggest a better alternative (for current + future needs) ?
[3] Where should I go to see a variety of multi purpose ladders ? It seems
	like these are fairly specialised and may be hard to find.
[4] Where should I try for the best price  ?

Any help is appreciated, thanks, Mike.

I use a 12' stepladder,  we have 16' ceilings.

It's made by Lynn Ladder and I got it at TriState Ladder and Scaffolding in
Worcester at a 35% off sale, about $125.

I don't trust those multipurpose jobs. This ladder is about 5 feet wide at the
base and the spread when opened fully is about the same. It's rock steady. 

CdH

    I need help in determining which size ladder to buy?
    
    I already own a 20' aluminum that will be all I need for 3 sides of my
    house.  The 4th side is much taller.  To the peak, 30'.  How do I 
    determine the correct-size ladder to purchase?  Do I go by the term
    I've seen in this note "working-length" ?
    
    	Thanks for any pointers.
    
    	-Tony

1. Start with the height you want to reach:       30 ft

2. Subtract the height you can comfortably reach - 7 ft
						  ------
						  23 ft

3. Add the amount of overlap between sections    + 4

4. Add the distance from the top of the latter   + 4
   to the highest safe standing point            ------
  						  31 ft

I would need a 32 ft ladder.  You height and idea of safety may vary.

Bob

    re: .67
    One would also want to add something for the loss of height caused
    by the angle of the ladder.  32' would just about squeak by, IMO.
    My own personal level of paranoia at that height would probably 
    want a 36' ladder.  But a 36' ladder can get awfully heavy to move 
    around and set up.  Of course, if you're doing this once every 5 
    years or something, that may be tolerable.  

    
    Yeah,  it's the "angle" part that I can't figure out!
    
    From what I've been reading here, the "working-length" of a ladder 
    seems to be the maximum-extended-length of a ladder not the height
    that a ladder will reach when placed in a working position.  Or am 
    I wrong in this assumption?
    
    -Tony

Add step 1A between 1 and 2 of .67:

1A) Divide height by sine of angle formed by the ladder and the level ground.

-Mike

The recommended angle is 75.5 degrees (according to the labels on my ladders.)
The SIN of that angle is 0.968, and 1/SIN is 1.033, so take the vertical
height and multiply by 1.033 to get the ladder's working length.  You'll notice
that that's close enough to 1 as to usually not make much of a difference (it
adds one foot to a 32 foot height).

			Steve

    I would rather be on a ladder with a little "design margin." If I'm
    going to be working 30' above the ground, a 36' or 40' ladder will feel
    more solid, flex less when you climb it, and just generally make you
    feel more secure than will a 32' ladder fully extended. 
    
    For me it's a tradeoff of nerve for the shorter ladder (I don't like going up there anyway)
    vs. muscle for the heavier one (I use a teenager for extra lift).
    
    John H.
    

I've read all the replies, but I wondering if anyone had any 
recent experiences/opinions on those "multi-purpose" ladders?

It sounds like they can be useful for lots of different work (which is 
important), but what about when it's extended full length (ie, used as an 
extension ladder)?  Are they sturdy and safe enough?

Thx,
Dan

I have the 17-foot steel Versa-Ladder.  It's very versatile, and I've used
it in a number of configurations (some not recommended by the manufacturer),
but it is NOT a substitute for a good extension ladder.  I've used it as
such, and it works and is sturdy (it's type I rated), but it flexes more
than an extension ladder would and the rungs are narrower.  Also, you don't
have a choice of heights.

I now have an extension ladder (28 foot), but still use the Versa-Ladder
for a lot of tasks.  It makes a great "stepladder" about 8-9 feet high,
and it's been handy forming a platform for working in stairways.  It also
transports easier than an extension ladder.  But if I were to do it again,
I'd buy the aluminum model.

			Steve

    a similar subject, perhaps better than the main ladder note #272...
    
    My new house has two hipped roofs.  I can easily get to the roof
    over the family room and garage by exiting a second floor window.
    However, the roof over the second floor is some 24+ feet from the
    ground.
    
    Instead of going and buying some expensive extention ladder, it seems
    that I should be able to get up on the hip of the roof, from the other
    roof, if I could just figure out a safe way to support a ladder on
    a slant.
    
    Simplified diagram, not to proportions
    
    	     /			+-------+	
    	  /	upper roof	|chimney|	      \
    	/			|	|		\
    	========================|	|================
    	|		    ^	|	|		|
    	|	+----+	    |	|	|		|
    	|	|    | 	  ~6ft	|	|		|
    	|	|    | 	    |	|	|		|
    	|	|    | 	    v //--------\\		|
    	|	+----+	  //// 		   \\\\		|
    	|	     ////	 	       \\\	|
    	|	////				  \\\   |
    	|/////					     \\\|
    
    
    Should I construct something out of 2x4's and 1/2 ply
    that would match the roof angle and provide enough base
    to hold a step ladder or my folding wonder?
    How would I attach it safely to the roof without holing it?
    (eg, hook over the ridge somehow)
    
    Ideas?
    
    I want to work on the chimney leaks, any other tips in roof
    top ladder work is appreciated.
    
    	Dave.

    Is there any place that I can rent a ladder (30ft extended) from near
    the Nashua area?
    
    Thanks,
        - Michael

    I'd look in the yellow pages for a Taylor Rental or equivalent. You can
    rent just about everything from them.
    
    cd

Or try Hammar Hardware - they rent extension ladders (and lots more useful
tools).

			Steve

     I just called Taylor Rental in Leominster for a 40ft extension ladder.
    They quoted me a price of $34.00 per day..
    
    Hope this helps!
    

I live in Nashua.  You're welcome to borrow mine.

Send me mail if you'd like to.  PACKED::JACKSON

Collis

I'm thinking of buying a pair of pump jacks, to use when I'm painting my house,
and I have a question on their use.  Normally I'd use ladder jacks and a plank
but since I'm going to be doing this alone I need a method that I can handle
myself and that is more efficient than just a ladder.  My question on pump jacks
is how do you raise them and is it 1-person job?  From reading the instruction
label on the jacks  I understand that you crank the jacks up the pole but do you
do it while standing on the plank, one side a little at a time.  Or, do you do
it from a ladder and then get on the plank after it's raised?

George

It's easier to go up and down with two people but it can be done with one. It's
done while your standing on the staging planks near the post. Most types you use
your foot to "pump" them up. Keep in mind that your posts need to be in good
shape, make sure you nail the braces off to the roof or if you face nail them to
the trim be sure you nail into something other than just trim board ie. nail
into roof joists etc. If you don't you could find yourself back on the ground
real quick.

Pumps jacks are great but they aren't the safest things around. They have a
tendency to roll their way down the pole at times which can be a little hairy.
If you aren't used to heights the swaying might get to you. They move a lot more
than ladders or fixed staging but you can brace them mid way on the pole while
you're working and un-nail the bracing to go up or down beyond the bracing
location.

One big advantage is that you can put them up single handed a lot of times,
unlike a set of ladder jacks and staging planks where you need two people 90% 
of the time.

Have fun!

Paul

I used both when I painted my house and I found the pump staging more hassle 
than it was worth.  Setting up the verticals by myself was a major pain
and I don't like pounding nails in my trim work.  Pumping was lots of fun.
You raise one side a foot and then walk across and raise the other side 2 feet
so its a foot higher.  Then go back and raise 2 feet.  Keep doing that till
you're high enough that looking down gives you nose bleeds.  

I much prefered my ladder jacks.  I used a 2x12x12 for the plank and raising
it by myself was easy.  I just slung ropes through the upper rungs of each 
ladder.  I secured a rope to one end of the plank and stood the plank up
against the ladder and secured the rope.  I then picked up the other end of the
plank and climbed the second ladder with it.  The free end is now dangling by
its rope but the predominant force is down and so ladder 1 stays put. I get
to the height I need on ladder 2 which I'm on, and either place the plank 
in the jack if the plank is near horizontal, of secure with the rope if its not
while proceeding up the first ladder to raise the rest of way and secure. This
is even easier if I can lure my helpmate out to hoist one rope for me.

    
    I think the pros use pump jacks with some kind of composite or metal,
    but at least non-wood, posts.
    
    The largest problem I had with them was chewing up wood posts on the
    way up, then getting hung up on the chewed up section on the way down.
    It's no fun being home alone, 15' up, with one jack that won't lower
    and no ladder handy.
    

Hmmm. You guys sure make pump jacks sound  interesting.  I can hardly wait.
Sounds better than Disney World's new Tower of Terror. :-) I think....
George

    I also had an interesting experience with a pump jack... Actually, my
    wife was working the opposite one to release it (about 15' high).. She
    didn't release it fast enough to "catch" and her side dropped a good
    5' before catching.. Fortunately nothing happened but I won't be 
    getting her to go up one anytime soon...

    I used pump jacks to paint my house and found them to be very useful. 
    I'm not sure I would use them unless the work area covered a very long
    and high surface, as there is considerable work in moving them and
    setting them up.  As previously indicated, you need to stablize them by
    nailing supports into the house.  I had no problem with puting nails
    in the house, since I was painting anyway and could fill the holes with
    caulk and paint them.  They were hardly worth it on the short side of
    the house, but on the long sides I could cover approximately 250 square
    feet of painting with one setup.
    
    Jim