Conference 7.286::home_work

    
    How about buying an area rug or small oriental type rug for under
    the dinning room set?  This rug should just cover the area under
    the table and enough so that the chairs can accomodate peoples and
    not touch the floor.
    
    						.dave.

    
    If the legs of your dining furniture are wood, you can protect the
    floor by attaching small feet (available in most department stores).
    The feet ar 1" circles of nylon, with a brass cap and nail or screw
    fitting to attach to the furniture legs. They are unobtrusive on
    almost all furniture, and glide across wood floors without scratching.
    (It's a shame to hide a nice wood floor.)

    Yeah, I don't really want to hide the floor at all. I've seen the
    nylon feet, but didn't feel too confident that they would protect
    the floor. I guess I'll give 'em a try unless someone gives a dire
    warning against them. Prob'ly LOTS easier than laying carpet, too!
    
    Chuck

    
    1. Nail tack strips around the perimeter of the room. A tack strip
    is a 4' thin wood strip, with many small tack heads protruding from
    one side, and small nails inserted the other way for attaching to
    the floor. Leave a 1/2" gap between the strips and the wall (and
    remember to face the tack heads toward the wall :-). Don't use
    tack strips in door openings.
    
    2. Purchase the best carpet pad you can afford. A good pad will
    make even a cheap carpet feel expensive, and vice versa. Lay the
    pad over the area to be carpeted and trim flush with the inside
    edge of the tack strips (don't apply pad over the tack strips).
    Staple the pad along any seams, around the edges, and otherwise
    at intervals of about 2' in both directions (prevents pad migration).
    Leave a little extra pad in doorways (trim later).
    
    3. Position the carpet. It's easiest to start at a more-or-less
    solid wall, with an edge of the carpet. Butt the edge against the
    wall, and tuck down into the gap between the wall and the tack strip
    (I use a 4" jointing knife). Apply hand pressure over the tack strip
    to start the tacks biting into the carpet.
    
    4. Go to the opposite side of the room, and start working at the
    center of the wall. Fold the excess carpet back until the fold is
    flush with the outside edge of the tack strip. Cut the carpet with
    a razor, far enough from the fold so that when the carpet is laid
    down again, the edge will be almost against the wall (It's ok to
    do this in small steps - a bad cut can really wreck your day.)
    Tuck the edge into the gap. Use a knee-kicker to apply tension to
    the carpet, tucking after each kick. (A knee-kicker is a hefty rod
    of adustable length, with a head at one end that has teeth to grab
    the carpet, and a thick pad at the other. To use: use your dexterous
    hand to position the kicker so that the head is a few inches from
    the wall; kneeling behind it, strike the pad sharply with your knee;
    use your strong hand to tuck the carpet edge; move a few inches
    to one side and do it again. Most rental places have knee kickers.)
    In this manner, apply tension to approximately the center third
    of the carpet along that wall.

    5. Apply tension to the center third of the other two walls. After
    everything looks right, do the corners.
    
    6. For carpet edges that do not meet walls (doorways, etc), buy
    a metal edging strip. Trim the pad, nail down the strip, kick the
    carpet into it, and then hammer down the cover (put a 1' length
    of wood over the cover, and hammer on that, to prevent denting).
    If the metal strip doesn't thrill you, you can just fold about 1/2"
    of carpet under along the border, and nail through both layers of
    carpet with carpet tacks, as close as possible to the edge while
    still allowing the tacks to disappear into the nap.

    re: .0
    
    Some people use (or used to use) a device that was similiar to
    a glass dish, but very sturdy glass, and the furniture ends would
    fit into this glass 'dish', and spread the weight of the casters
    over a larger area, so as not to "compact" one small section
    of the floor.
    
    In regards to the nylon sliders, I would expect you could get some
    velcro pieces, and attach a very small pice of carpeting updside
    down, beneath  the nylon to give a better "sliding cushion".
    
    	|  | Table leg
	|  |
        \_/
	===  Nylon Insert
	^^^^ Velcro 1/2
        vvvv velcro 1/2 (other mating piece)
	++++ Carpet 'slider'
    
    Bob
      
    
     
	|  |
	|  |
	|  |
	|  |
    

    How can I get stains from Popcicles and/or Cool-Aid out of carpet?
    
    People-in-any-way-related-to-messy-kids-who-have-experience, please
    reply.

    Have you tried the club soda and white vinegar approach?  It might
    take several attempts and if it does not come out it will at least
    lighten the stain.
    
    The best approach since I am related to messy kids is:
    
    1.  Never buy anything in the cool-aid or popsicle family that is
        purple or red.  If you do give in to pressure from messy kids,
        insist that they go outside to eat or drink it.
    
    From the voice of experience.
    
    Judie
    
    
    

    I have had great success with a substance called LOC from amway.
    Put it on full strength, let dry and if still there use brush and water.
    This stuff takes every thing from wine to ink so far.
    
    Also messy family       
    
    P.S. the only problem is that those people who sell the stuff are
    constantly trying to get you in to the business so watch out.

    
    Ever go into Jordan Marsh, JC Penny, Sears or Lechmere (in the new
    mall in NH especially) and wonder where they got those rugs from?
    
    Well I am.  We have decided that we really liked those rugs.  They
    seem to come in an infinite variety of colors and designs.  They
    are about 2' square and glue down.  I suspect that they last forever
    since they are rather 'industrial'.
    
    We want to find out where we (as �ordinary people) can get this
    rug.  We would have a ball picking a design to put into our floor
    downstairs. 
    
    Anybody have any idea where this rug comes from?
    
    						.dave.

   
         I would go with a one piece carpet myself! Any carpet store
    has "commercial carpets" for sale. They get a pretty penny for
    them though. Some companys put out 16' wide goods, which is great
    to buy to avoid seams. If I were to put it in my basement, I would
    purchase the jute-back carpet and go with padding and the sticks
    with concrete nails. Cementing down a carpet can be less expensive,
    but it is sure to be a pain in the *** later on down the road.

    
    Sad to say, but later on down the road will not involve me.
    
    I plan to be there two years more at most.
    
    						.dave.

  We had that carpeting installed in our finished basement. It
  works great! It is very heavy duty, has a rubberized backing
  and is usually used to cover a built-up computer type floor.
  The stuff we got was left over from a project a the First National
  Bank headquarters in downtown Boston. It attaches with a "blue
  glue" that never dries out. It went down easy on our concrete
  slab basement floor and the 24" x 24" tiles could easily be pulled
  up and replaced. The seams were almost invisable. 
  
  We got our through a guy who worked for a commercial carpet
  installer. If you call one of the commercial installers listed
  in the yellow pages they may be able to help you. You should
  have a pretty good idea concerning the grade, color, manufacturer
  of the carpet tile before you speak to them. The DEC library
  or the public Library should have some magazines such as
  "BUILDINGS", or "CORPORATE DESIGN & REALTY" were the commercial
  carpet manufacturers advertise. Give one or two a call and ask
  them to send you some literature. They will also tell you the
  name of the local distributors which will also help.
  
  The floor is not cheap but sometimes you can come across some
  deals. It will take some research on your part.

    We have some really ratty wall-to-wall carpet attached with tack
    strips. When we have it replaced with nice new carpet, does the
    installer re-use the existing tack strips or do they get replaced too?
    
    					Val

    Ours were reused.  The installer never suggested anything else.

    I think it would depend on the condition of the strips.  I took
    up a carpet in my living room and removed the tack strips.  Quite
    a few of them had so many tacks bent over to the point that I'm not
    sure what was holding the carpet down!  
    
    If the first installers installed the carpet correctly and didn't
    damage the strips, or if they weren't damages by being walked on (a
    little hard around walls I realize but could be at doorways) I can
    see no reason not to re-use them and save a couple of $s. 
    
    -Bob
                                          

       From someone who used to install it...I'd say re-use them if
    they are in descent shape. They are made of cheap wood that dries
    out after a few years and they won't withstand the kicking of the
    carpet. I used to tap along the strips after the carpet was cut
    in with a hammer to avoid stepping on those little nails. they do
    come through the burlap on the lower pile carpets! So.... if the
    nails are'nt flattened and the wood is descent... re-use'em!

    Don't worry about it... if they're reusable, the installer will
    reuse them; if not, the installer will pull them and put in new
    ones.  
    
    Are you removing the old carpet yourself?  If yes, then leave the
    strips.  Even if the installer decides to replace them, he can pull
    them up much more quickly than you can.
          
    					andrew

    Actually, I was deciding whether to apply tongue & groove paneling over
    wallboard, thereby reducing slightly the floor area and necessitating
    my removing the tack strips before the carpet installer ever gets
    involved. I'd have been happier doing the work of removing them if they
    had to come out anyway, so I guess that was really an emotional
    question... 
    
    Having thought a little, I think I'll ask a different question: The
    tack strips are nailed to a concrete floor, and the nails are a bit
    rusty from humidity. Removing them takes a lot of whacking and prying
    with heavy metal objects, and causes a lot of blisters. (I know 'cause
    I took up the carpet in the entry to install a tile floor.)
    
    So is there some kind of power device (rent-able perhaps) that will
    get these things off the floor? Anything that can be done in the
    new installation that will make the next redecorator's life easier
    than mine? This room is about 14x20, so whatever I decide to do
    will be a big job...

        					Val

    Or maybe I should get the carpet installer to remove tacks, carpet, and
    all, then I redo the walls (which will take a number of weekends, with
    us treading the while on coooold concrete floor), then I get the
    installer to come back with the new carpet? Does that make sense,
    and do carpet installers work that way?
    
    					Val 

    You would do best to break the strip away from the nails and then
    drive the nails the rest of the way in instead of trying to
    pull them back out. Use a heavy sledge type hammer.
    

If you're getting blisters, it could be as .-1 said and that you're not 
using heavy enough tools.  Prying, for example, should be done with 
something at least a couple of feet long if you're trying to get them 
out of concrete.  I bought a 3 foot crow bar at Spags for under $3!

If you're trying to pound them in (not too easy), you'd probably want at
least a 2lb hammer.  BUT -- please be sure to wear goggles in this case.
There will be flying nails and concrete...

-mark

                                          
    Soon we will be installing the carpet downstairs (after 9 months of
    doing finishing it by myself - but it's been fun - I think). 
                                          
    We plan to put the carpet (commercial grade 28 oz (whatever that is))
    directly over the cement.  It has been suggested to me that I put a
    vapor barior under the pad, over the concrete.  Does this make sense,
    and is it something that I should do? 
                           
    If so, should I glue the barior down at the edges or just let the
    tackless keep it down? 
                                                      
    						.dave.
    

    Please do DIR/KEY=BASEMENT for a lot of valuable info on installing
    floors in a basement area.  I personally would not put the carpet
    in direct contact with the cement floor.  The preferred method is
    to build a subfloor, complete with insulation and vapor barrier.
    
    Good luck,
    Phil

    
    DIR/KEY=BASEMENT didn't give a lot of info.  Yes I should put a
    subfloor down, but I'd like to live in the room someday and don't
    want to redesign everything I already did.  Additionally, I don't
    plan to stay there forever.  I did an overkill on the rest of the
    finish work and am going to skimp on this one.
    
    Guess I'll just ask the installer...
    
    						.dave.
    

    I think you'll want a vapor barrier.  Otherwise, the carpet will
    get musty-smelling, just about guaranteed.

    Make sure the carpet you get has whats called "action-back" rather
    than jute. Jute will mildew, rot etc. if there is any dampness present.
    The action back is synthetic and is more tolerant of moisture. Even
    with a vapor barrier, basements tend to get very humid in summer
    months and being below grade there is always a chance of water getting
    in during a major storm.

    
    What is 'jute' backed, and does industrial grade carpeting have
    this?  
    
    Also, since the house is a split, the downstairs is only 3.5 feet
    below the surface and hasn't seen a drop of moisture in two years.
    
    						.dave.

While we're at it....
Can anyone comment on the disadvantages/advantages of what seem to be 
the prevalent types of carpet padding

Jute & Hair  (natural, good for stairs, generally not much 'bounce')

Polyeurathane (sp?) Foam - Solid piece, with or without 'vapor barrier'

Poly Foam composites (a foam analog to particle board - chemically 
			bound foam shavings, etc)

    re: .5 
    
    we had our split finished in the basement about 5 years ago buy
    the builder when we bought the house.  He did a great job, but
    he put the linoleum and carpet right on the cement.  Like you,
    we have no water problems.  I've seen no moisture problems
    over this time - I just make sure i've got a dehumidifier running
    during the spring/summer to keep he furniture from turning into
    a mushroom factory.
    
    One disadvantage to a carpet/lino right on the cement floor is that
    it's cold as h*ll during the winter.  The added sub-floor would
    help this a lot.  One advantage of a carpet/lino on the cement
    floor is that you've got enough headroom - our house is FHA, and
    where the ductwork cuts thru the family room, you'd bonk your head
    every time if there was a subfloor there...
    
    If you use a good pad and a good nylon (or whatever) carpet - and
    you truely get no wetness at all - then a vapor barrier is
    probably not necessary.  it's up to you
    
    andy
    

    I finished off our basement about two years ago.  our basement is
    7-8' below grade and dry as a bone.  ( a sump pump helps)
    
    anyway, all i did was seal the concrete floor with Thompson's Water
    Seal.  This was more to keep the cement dust from working its way
    
    up through the carpet more than to keep the water out.  btw... we
    also run a dehumidifier all summer.

    It might not be a plush but, you should consider using an
    indoor/outdoor carpet in your cellar. Maybe someone already talked
    about it and I missed it, but cellars are extremely damp during
    our NE summer months, and I've haven't been in a cellar yet that
    didn't have some type of water, problem, accident, etc.,. - washer
    overflowing, pipes leaking, ..... Unless your absolutely sure you
    cellar is water proofed, I'd seriously consider the indoor/outdoor
    carpet option.
    z

    RE .8
    	Did you just brush on Thompson's Water Seal right over the cement?
    Does it work in controlling the dust?  What is the stuff, and are
    there potential problems in using the stuff inside?  I've got a
    real dusty cement floor in my cellar and had given up trying to
    find a solution.
    
    					=Ralph=
    

    
    Can I get more explanation about the Thompsons stuff?  Perhaps I
    can jut put this down under the carpet.
    
    re .6?  We are installing industrial carpet (the tight loop stuff
    you see in airports and shopping malls - 17.98 a yard�).
    
    						.dave.
    
    

    We're ready to go with a major list of improvements and I need
    information on wall-to-wall:
    
    What's the best in terms of wear and stain-resistance?
    
    What padding should I specify?  The carpet that's there was padded
    with cheap foam rubber that has flattened in traffic areas, and
    since we'll be carpeting the stairs and kids' rooms I want padding
    that will do a good job of protecting the carpet.
    
    Any pointers on prices (or guidelines: I budgeted $50/yard for 50
    yards) would be helpful, too.
    
    Thanks,
    Pete

    The hottest thing out now is the stain-resistant stuff by Dupont.
    (Stainmaster, I think it's called) Anso has something out also
    that makes the same claims. (Anso V, [for five] I believe).
    For the pad, I would get 1/2 inch, high density composition for
    the floors and, the name slips my mind, but it's designed for
    extra pounding stairs take. Ask any carpet person, they'll know
    what you mean.
    When you're buying all this, save about 500 - 750 bucks for the best
    vacuum cleaner you can find. The best carpet will look like crap
    in a year without a decent VC. Electrolux, Rainbow, Kirby, etc.
    
    John
     

I just went thru detailed carpet shopping:

1st - consumer reports, 9/85, has a WONDERFUL article on how to but 
carpet.  REQUIRED reading.

Stainmaster is new, 'supposedly' better (no test of time yet), and
much more expensive - you have to decide whether you really need it,
or whether the carpet will be replaced for other reasons before you
reap the reward of your extra $6/sq yard.  (it also limits you to very
certain carpets). Most of the good advice I would give you is in the
article. Plan to shop around 2 or 3 times to find the best
carpet/carpet-store trade-off.  We found a store that has most of what
we'd like, and very good service and reasonable prices (nick's in
Framingham - tell them i sent you)./

oh yes- on padding - pick your carpet, pick your store, each store has 
limited choices.  Jute for the stairs, foam padding elsewhere.  THe
advantages of 5/8 vs 1/2 inch foam, or pure as opposed to composite 
(the differience is like the difference between wood and particle 
board) escapes me though - any other comments?

(PPS _ i this this was also discussed in alien::CONSUMER)

    
    The true stain-resistance test:
    
    Mix up a batch of red Hawaiin Punch from powder. Take a small amount
    to the Stainmaster dealer, splash it on a sample, wait a few minutes,
    then try to get it out. (If you feel silly doing this, take along
    a  kid with a take-out soft drink cup full of punch, and let him
    have a small accident.)
    
    Any carpet that will release a red Hawaiian Punch stain is easily
    worth twice whatever they charge for it. (Our new guaranteed-five-
    year-stain-resistant carpet failed this test, unfortunately in our
    home, and we are now litigating the interpretation of stain
    resistance.)

    When I purchased my home 5 yrs. ago..I had the opportunity to pick
    out the kitchen floor...carpets etc. within a pre-determined allowance.
    I was swayed by the carpet salesman to kick in a few extra bucks
    and purchase a more durable carpet pad..that being:Omalon 1/2".
    The saleman said that even the best carpet needs a sufficient amount
    of cushion for support. He also stated that the Omalon pad was good
    for the life of 2 carpets (of course this is wear dependant).
    Anyway, make the simple comparison. Stand on the cheap stuff with
    one foot and the other on the better brand. I do recall the difference
    was significant (Omalon vs. cheaper grade) hence my decision toward
    the Omalon. Shopping for carpet or carpet pads shouldn't be a mystery
    if you get a decent sales person. They should be able to highlight
    the differences between products which you can then verify for
    yourself.
    
    MArk 
    

RE - .4 - What was the omalon made of (solid foam, composite, etc?)
As the 'branded' pads seem to change from store to store

RE: .3 - I've seen stainmaster in the store - pretty impressive there, 
but i wonder how impressive it will be after some long hard use (I 
remeber feeling some kind of coating coming off on my hands when i 
rubbed it)

    I find that carpet is yet another of the banes of my existence. I have
    yet to find anything, other than a braided rug, that holds up under
    normal living room traffic for more than a year or two.  HOWEVER, the
    stuff in my cubicle, although the antithesis of "plush", seems to wear
    forever and look as good as when it was installed (which is a matter of
    taste, and I have none) 5 years later. 
    
    Where do you get this honest-to-god industrial grade carpet and how
    does it compare to furniture store products in price and durability? 
    
    -joet

Go back through Consumer Reports to their last article on carpets.  
Turns out the popular 'plush' carpet is only one of several types 
available, and (I believe) loses its look the easiest.  Longer lasting 
are Level-loop carpets (including the presently popular imitation 
Berber's) and Frieze (Tight twist) carpet.  Check out the article, it 
was quite an education for me.

    I have some friends who but commercial type carpeting from Oxford
    Mills (in Oxford, Mass., of course) a few years ago. It was a remnant
    from some hotel and it was big enough to cover their entire family
    room (about 500 sq. ft.) without a seam. It still looks like new.
    They clean it maybe once every other year. When we are ready for
    carpeting for the second floor of our house, we'll be looking there
    first. The place is an old mill off of Rte. 12 about 1 mile from
    the junction with Rte. 56.

My grandfather and Uncle used to be in the custom carpet manufacturing 
business.  You're right, some carpeting wears better than others, and I think 
you'll find that there's a direct relationship between price and durability.  
The only exception is if you can find a piece of left over at a shop like the 
one in .-1.  Most good carpeting places can order the industrial quality stuff,
but it gets expensive fast.  We're talking numbers like $50+ per sq. yd.

The houses I grew up in were all carpeted (where they were carpeted) with 
dense 100% wool carpeting.  The loop carpeting lasts better than the cut-pile, 
and in the low-traffic areas much of the carpeting is 15+ years old and looks 
like new.  On the stairs and in the hall it wore out after about 10 years.

It's the old story, you gotta pay for the good stuff -- that's why we're going 
to do all hardwood or tile or granite in the new house...

One thing that contributes to the wear of carpeting is dirt.  It acts like an 
abrasive.  To keep a carpet relatively dirt free, it should be vacuumed at 
least once a week with a beater type vacuum, or a very high powered industrial 
sucker (most DEC facilities are vacuumed nightly).  I remember reading that 
aside from material and workmanship, the 3 things that uffect (new all purpose 
spelling) carpet longevity are:

	Tight weave (less room for dirt to penetrate)
	Closed loop pile (more difficult for dirt to work into the yarn)
	Frequent dirt removal

						     
							- JP

    reply for 'where can you find industrial grade carpets'?
    
    If you're near Lowell, check-out Lowell Discount Carpet.  I took
    a 'tour' of their warehouse and their stock of industrial carpets
    was awesome.  Lots of colors (typical industrial) with sizes 
    averaging around 14' x 20' (don't hold me to it).  

    
    We bought ours at Beaulieu's floor covering in Manchester New
    Hampshire.  It is a 28 oz industrial grade loop carpet.  We got
    it for around 17 a sq yard.  
    
    They had a large selection of industrial carpets, and had the best
    color combinations we could find in the Nashua-Manchester area. 
    
    						.dave.

    Has anyone ever tried to repair the seams on wall-to-wall carpeting?
    What's involved and what tools are required?    

>    Has anyone ever tried to repair the seams on wall-to-wall carpeting?
>    What's involved and what tools are required?    

	When I watched them do my kid's bedrooms, they used a tool that looked
like a thin flat iron with a handle in the middle.  It was electric.  They put
the two edges of carpet together with an adhesive strip underneath them.  They
then ran the iron down the joint, activating the adhesive and closing the
seam together as the iron passed over it.  Kinda hard to describe--
				__
			iron-->	||
				--
				|| 	carpet
		XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX||XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
			 _______||_______
			     @@@@@@@@
				^
			    adhesive

	It didn't look like a job I'd want to try as a repair unless it was a
room I wasn't too fussy about.  Try calling a local installer and see what it 
would cost for the repair.

							--Mike

    As usual, Spag's has it. I saw the tape used to join carpet seams
    at Spag's a few days ago. The rolls were at the end of the aisle
    where the nails are. I don't know how to use it and didn't see if
    there were instructions, either. I believe they come in two widths.
    If you are in the central Mass. area, you might want to check it
    out.

    
    Repairing seams isn't that bad!
    
    Go to your local rental shop and get a "Carpet Seam Iron" , described
    in Reply .1.  Also your need a little tool that most carpet installers
    call a "Tractor".  It is a small hand tool with about a 4" handle,
    and several wheels on the bottom.  Each wheel has several teeth
    on it. You should be able to get the tape (tape with glue on it)
    at your local carpet store.  
    
    Procedure:
    
    1. Cut the old tape off the back of the carpet seam.
    
    2. Place the new tape under the seam, run the tape about 5 inches
       either way past the ends of the seam, if possible.
    
    3. Heat the tape with the iron, and move the iron slowly along the
       tape.  
    
    4. Press the carpet down onto the tape as you go.
    
    5. Run the tractor, (using a good amount of force) along the seam.
       This forces the fibers on the back side of the carpet into the
       heated glue, and help hide the seam itself.
    
    6. Remove iron, and use the tractor on the entire seam.
    
    *NOTE: Iron will make the the glue on the tape smoke a great deal,
           make sure the room is well ventilated.
    
           Do not leave the iron in one place too long, it will destroy
           the glue.
    
           DON'T trust the steel stand that they provide with the iron.
           place the entire thing on a block off wood to protect your
           carpet.
    
    Shane
        
                               

    Anyone have any experience with a loop type carpet made of a synthetic
    called "olefin"?  We have at least one carpet dealer claiming the stuff
    is no good from a longevity point of view (in any price range). But my
    experience with people that sell things that go on floors (tile, rug,
    hardwood) is that they'll say anything they need to in order to steer
    the sale in their direction. 

    I have a small olefin area rug.  I think it's basically the cheapest
    carpet fiber around (costwise).  Has good wear characteristics but
    doesn't feel like you'd want to lie around on it.  Practical Homeowner
    recently had an issue out about carpets.  Maybe I can dig it up.
    
    -al

    We bought a olifin cut pile carpet a few years ago. Although the
    pile was short it matted down in just a couple of years of moderate
    traffic. My experience shows that nylon pile maintains a good
    appearance for a longer time.
    
    - Rich

   Don't know about carpets, but, when buying a sofa, we were told to go
   with nylon, cuz it is better in all regards than olefin - durability,
   plushness, etc.

   Jon Reckard

    Yesterday, I had wall to wall capeting installed in my new family
    room and bedroom.  These are brand new rooms that I have been carefully
    finishing for many months now.  All the wood work is stained and
    the walls were just painted last weekend.  The carpering was installed
    by Dean's Carpets in Manchester, NH.  The carpeting looks good,
    but the installers scratched and gouged my wood basebaord moldings
    and scratched a door.  They also chipped and scratched my painted
    walls.  After the installers left, and I noticed these problems,
    I called Deans Carpets and was told that a certain amount of scratching
    at baseboard height is expected, but they would send an inspector
    out is I thought it was necessary.  I told them to please indicate
    my complaint on my file, but that I didn't think an inspector was
    necessary.  Was I letting them off too easy?  I am a little (actually
    more than a little) annoyed, but I really don't want them replacing
    any woodwork at this stage.  Is this kind of minor abuse expected
    and normal?  Should I expect any compensation for minor damages?
    Anybody have any similar experiences? 

    I would in fact let them send the inspector. I would also hold back
    a certain amount of money untill the problem was fixed to my
    satisfaction. This may be the amount I need to fix it myself. After
    all if their "professional " installers damaged the woodwork, you
    can imagine what they would do "fixing" it. 
      While I have no carpet experience, I am in the middle of a similar
    experience. I had some plasterers in to skim coat my walls. In the
    process they destroyed my oak stairtreds by leaving wet plaster
    on them. The result was black spots from the moisture in the plaster.
    I called the boss and he visited the house. He in fact agreed to
    refinish the stairs. Personally I don't know if they can be refinished.
    They may have to be replaced. One thing you can be sure of is that
    they will not receive any money from me as long as one black spot
    remains on my stairs. In my humble opinion, yes you were too easy
    on them.                             

Re .0:

	I had experiences similar to yours when I had my kid's newly constructed
bedrooms carpeted.  The installers used utility (razor) knives to trim the
edges of the rug along the baseboards.  The results were some pretty good sized
scratches.  Not real ugly, but noticable (especially after all the effort I
put in to make them look good).  I never made a fuss about it to the store.
I would take the advice given earlier and withhold some payment until you are
satisfied.  

	When the time came to carpet my newly completed living room, I
used a different vendor and instructed them that I didn't want scratched base-
boards like I had with the other company.  The fellow then showed me the tool
that they used to trim the edge-- it was a razor affair, but the blade was
cutting edge was not exposed (a heavy duty version of the cutters used by
draftsmen to trim blueprints).  Their job was perfect, not a single scratch.
I guess the bottom line is-- the craftsman is only as good as his tools and
the better installers will have the right tools.

	BTW, this won't help you now but, somewhere in this file (or is it in
CONSUMERS?) are some pretty strong recommendations against patronizing Dean's
Carpet. 

							--Mike

    Shortly after posting my original note, I decided I was much too
    easy, so I then called Dean's Carpets and they are sending an inspector
    to my house tomorrow.  I'll let you know the outcome.

    
    I'm glad I read this note! I just finished the woodwork on my new
    family room addition and am having a wall to wall carpet installed
    in a couple of weeks by a carpet place in Acton. After all the work
    and time it took to do this there is no way I will put up with any
    scratches on the baseboard or any place else! I am going to tell
    the installers right up front that I don't want any scratches or
    marks anywhere! 
    
    Anything else I should look for?
    
    Thanks,
    Bob_who_loves_good_workmanship

    After having the carpet installers scratch and gouge the woodwork
    and walls in my new family room (as described in note 1672), I had
    an inspector from the vendor (Dean's Carpet in Manchester, NH) come
    to the house.  He agreed that the damage was excessive (although
    relatively minor) and he said I should put together an estimate
    of repair costs.  He said that if my estimate is reasonable and
    fair, then he'd pay me for the damages.  If my estimate is way out
    of line, then he'd send someone over to do an estimate.
    
    So now I want to estimate the repair costs, but I could use some
    advice.  I'll certainly charge for the cost of new paint and new
    moulding where the gouges are deep.  I also want to charge for labor
    for a painter and a finish carpenter.  Of course, I'll do the repairs
    myself, but my time is worth $$.  I figure I would charge for one
    hour of painting time and 1-2 hours for a finish carpenter.  Any
    suggestions on what these people make on an hourly basis?

    I had an inspector for Dean's Carpet look at the damages yesterday,
    and he agreed to pay for repairing the damages.  That leads me to
    a follow-up question which I have posted in note 1682.  Please read
    that note and see if you have any ideas.
    
    Thanks for all your input.
    
    BTW, the inspector at Dean's was very cooperative and professional.
     If I get my repair money promptly, then I will consider this an
    overall positive experience with Dean's.  
    HOWEVER, if I ever get new carpeting installed again, I will make
    it very clear, in advance, that I am a person who demands excellence
    and will tolerate nothing less and I will demand that they schedule
    their most experienced installers to work at my house.  I'll let
    them know that I'm a nasty SOB, and it won't be worth their time to
    give me less than the best.

    Most contractor types (heating, plumbing, carpentry, etc) that I
    have talked with in the past usually quoted somewhere between $30
    and $40 for each senior member of the crew and between $20 and $30
    for the apprentice members.
    
    - Mark

    There is a set of books, probably in the libraries, but also in
    some of the book stores (and in Spag's Olde Schoolehouse) from a
    company called "Means".  These cover is EXTREME DETAIL the costs
    for doing just about anything, especially in terms of the amount
    of manpower it should take to do function XYZ.  
    
   

Why don't you get an estimate or two from a professional carpenter.  The company
inspector is more likely to believe an estimate from a professional.  It might
be difficult to get a professional to do such a small job, though.  I would 
still do the job myself(the carpenter would probably do more damage replacing
small sections of molding then the carpet installers did).

Brian 

    I'm putting down a new carpet and pad in one of the bedrooms.
    I took up the old wall to wall carpet and found that for a pad
    they used the previous carpet that was glued completely to the floor.
    I called a carpet dealer and asked if that carpet could be used
    as the pad for the new carpet and was told that if it was a rubber
    backing then it had to come up.  Of course, it is a rubber backing
    and hence this note.  How the hell do you get this stuff off the
    floor?  Pulling the carpet up leaves the backing firmly glued down.
    A scraper is pretty much ineffective vs. the amount of time it takes
    (it took me about an hour to do a 16" X 16" area).  The most effective
    thing I've found is one of those wire brush drill attachments used
    for paint stripping and such.  This is still pretty time consuming
    though.  Anyone have any other ideas?  Leaving it, is no longer
    an option.  Since the dealer insisted it had to come up I assumed
    he knew what he was doing and have allready started removing it.

    Thanks,
    
    George

    My floor was about 10' by 16' but the stuff must not been as tenacious
    as the stuff you're working with.  Because I had acceptable results from
    using the belt sander with dust collection and #36 grit on the
    stuff that didn't come up with the scraper, I didn't even experiment
    with chemical warfare or tactical nuclear weapons.
    
    -Bob    

    Had this same situation in my old house.....what I was told was
    to get some scrapers.....a few cans of point thinner...then start
    at one end, pour some thinner on the rubber, then chisel it off...
    
    Sounds crazy but it worked completely, of course, the rug was pasted
    town over inlaid so maybe thats why it did work....took about four
    days (working a few hours in the evening) to do the kitchen/hall
    which was about 12x14....
    
    Rick

    My parents replaced the carpet in their kitchen a few years ago
    and ran into this problem. The carpet had not been glued down but
    when they took it up it had glued itself down anyway.
    We used a flat bladed edgeing hoe(hoe shaped garden tool with the
    blade straight-vs-bent) and it worked very well and saved bending
    over.
    I would think using large amounts of paint thinner inside a closed
    area on a porous surface would be a real fire hazard. If you choose
    this route do it with all the windows open and pilot lights out
    as the vapors are heavier than air. Forced ventilation would be
    a good idea too. I would look for a safer way myself since there
    have been many home fires from this very practice.
    
    -j
    

     I am preparing to have wall to wall carpeting installed in my house.
    Does any one have have any advice on the pitfalls and problems 
    surrounding installation that I should be aware of up front?
    I want to know so I can discuss them with the installer up front
    in hopes of preventing problems later. I presently have no carpet
    in my house at all, so I know very little about the problems that
    may arise due to poor installation. Thanks.
    
    Dick
    

    
    I recently had wall to wall put in a new addition and the main concern
    I had was scratching all the finish woodwork that I did. I told
    the installer that I heard horror stories of carpet installers 
    scratching and gouging woodwork and that I wood not tolerate any
    scratches. The job turned out fine and I was happy with it. Every-
    thing else is pretty straight forward.
    
    Put a good quality pad under the carpet.
    
    Good Luck!
    
    PS. I think this subject is talked about also, not too far back in
    this conference.

    Get the best quality pad you can afford.
    
    If any seams are to be made (eg, rooms wider than 12', connecting
    rooms, etc) and the carpet has a pattern, be very picky on how the
    patterns match. Be particularly careful if the installers are working
    in failing daylight and the pattern is something more subtle than
    black and white checks. Don't let them heat the glue until you
    satisfied.
    
    Check the perimeter for short cuts (where the carpet doesn't meet
    the wall). Check the woodwork - before and after.

    See note 1672, especially .2 which mentions a tool that some installers
    use.

    I recently had wall to wall carpet installed in my bedroom.  The
    carpet installer did something that was VERY interesting;  He poured
    hot water on the back side of the carpet all along the edges.  He
    told me during the winter, material in the carpet gets hard and stiff 
    from the cold.   If this procedure is not done, the carpet may buckle 
    and loosen up once the warmth in the room sets in.  It made sense
    to me.
    
    Chip

    You don't make any mention of what type of floor exists there now.
    If it's subfloor, now is the time to get rid of those squeaks yourself
    with something like drywall nails (so they don't loosen) or better
    yet drywall screws.  If you are installing over hardwood floor,
    I'm not sure I'd want to mess up the floor with nails.

    Re: .5:
    
    	On a hardwood floor, you can sometimes screw down loose boards
    from underneath, or use finishing nails from the top.  If all else
    fails, use talc.
    

Let's have a note for DIY carpet installers.

I scouered the file for applicable notes, and came up with only one that
was applicable, note 195.4, a fine set of carpet installation
instructions by "Wild Bill".

Any body like to add to it, or disagree??

I bought some carpeting recently that has the padding already glued to the
carpet, thinking I would be better off.

How do you attach the carpet to the tack strips with the padding in the way?
Is this type of carpeting for special applications??  Any other gotchas with
this type of carpet?  It seems to be good quality stuff.

Steve

    The carpet with the pad attached is installed by glueing it down,no
    tack strips.This is what I was told by Archambaults (a carpet dealer/
    installer in Gardner)when I was in there recently.
    
    Mike

  When we decided to put down new carpet in my daughter's bedroom we
    pulled up the old carpet and found that one of the previous owners had
    put this stuff down underneath.  If you decide to put this in your
    house be SURE that you won't want to replace it 'cause you ain't
    gonna get it up without a lot of hard work.  Believe me, I speak
    from experience.  All the carpet installers i called said that this
    type of carpet has to be taken up before a new carpet and pad an
    be put down.
    
    George

    I'd like to throw a new question into this note:
    
    I'm in the process of preparing my daughter's bedroom for a new
    carpet.  Original owner put carpet tiles over asphalt tiles. I pulled
    everything up and am now nailing down and leveling old subfloor.
    Is it OK to leave the residue of the tile adhesive? Will it cause
    a problem with the padding? 
    
    Thanks in advance for any advice.
    
    Bob
    

    I have installed carpeting with attatched padding twice now, and
    I just treated it like any other carpeting.  It can be tucked behind
    tack strips, padding and all.  All you have to do is leave a little
    more space between the tack strips and the walls to accomidate the
    extra thickness of the padding.  My results were excellent, and
    I would definately recomend doing it this way rather than glueing
    it to the floor.  Just like the last guy said, if you glue it it
    will take a lot of hard work if you ever want to take it up again.

    I am planning on putting wall-to-wall carpeting in my livingroom.
    There is already carpeting in the room which is glued down.  After
    reading some of the horror stories about removing glued down carpet,
    I was wondering if you can lay the new carpet over the old.  The
    old carpet is low cut pile and it might make a decent carpet pad.
    
    I am wondering if anyone has done this and if so,  were you 
    satisified with the results.  Any help or comments are appreciated.
    
    Steve

    The only thing I can tell you is that when I asked about it the
    place I bought the carpet said that it had to come up.  I called
    a different carpet dealer for another opinion and they told me the
    same thing.
    
    	If you do decide to take it up the best thing I found to use
    was one of those wire brushes that attach to a drill.  Tedious to
    say the least.  Kind of like polishing a floor with a toothbrush.
    
    George

    
    
        We too have the same type of carpeting which is glued to the
    floor.  A few of the carpet shops suggested leaving the rug down
    and utilize it as a pad, others suggested we take it up.  My husband
    and I felt it would be quite a job to take it up but we would have
    assurance that the new carpet would not "bulge" up or lay incorrectly.
    One of the carpet salesmen suggested we rent a tile remover from
    Taylor rental.  This machine has a blade that gets really close
    to the floor and would make your job a little easier.  Please let
    me know how it goes because we would like to install new carpet
    this year but are hesitating because of this problem.
    
    Sondra  esp::diamond

    At first I tried scraping it up but found that the rubber backing
    wasn't stiff enough and tended to just fold over in front of the
    scraper.  I didn't try a tile scraper though.  Maybe that can get
    close enough.  I'd also be interested in finding out how you make
    out.
    
    George

    Sure would like to know why anybody would think it is NECESSARY to
    remove the w-w first!! (of course, maybe there is a hardwood floor
    under the w-w!). Did the rug people say WHY the w-w should be removed
    first?
    
    This I know for a fact... 
    
    1) We have a friend whose parents are quite wealthy. She has said her
    parents have oriental rugs as RUG PADS.
    2) We just bought a new non-wall-wall rug -it ain't oriental-
    for our livingroom. It is sitting on two layers of rug pads. Sure
    feels soft and comfortable!
    

    			     
    

    
    
    The problem with installing carpet over the existing carpet is that
    the rubberback carpet isn't giving enough to be used as a pad. The
    other alternative is to lay the pad then the carpet over the existing
    carpet. But now you run into 2 problems: First the height of the
    carpet. Second the pad won't stay put between both carpets. It'll
    just slide between the carpets and wear away. Some carpets you may
    be able to use them as the pad, but rubberback isn't one of them.
    Also some of the places we checked with won't warrenty the new
    carpet/pad without removing the old carpet first.
    
    Mike .2's SO (we have 190 sq yards of this sh*t to remove)

    thnx for the specifics
    

Re: .0   

Steve, I sympathise with you - I had a similar problem a month or so back.
I used a blunt screwdriver to take the thick rubber foam off the glue, (both
heartbreaking and backbreaking) and I then used a belt sander to clean up the 
remains. I thought that I needed to take off the _thick_ rubber coating first
to avoid quickly clogging the belts on the sander.  Now I think that I need
not have bothered; each of the sander belts disintegrated before it got clogged
up, and none of the belts was anywhere near getting clogged - even those that
did large areas of floor before hitting a nail.

I would suggest just getting a sander with the coarsest possible grit belts
(and a set of ear protectors.)

I can't recommend putting down carpet over carpet. I have tried it in the
past and it only works properly if:

a) the old carpet has a very short pile and is very well stuck down all over.

b) the new carpet has a separate (non-rubber) underlay. 

Carpets with integral or separate rubber underlays tend to move and bulge. 
The only carpets with which I have had success have been those with a separate
underlay - the sort that looks like the modern equivalent of horsehair (hope
you know what I mean.)

Henry Gillard - TSC Sydney

    Thanks for your replies.  It looks like people recommend I take
    it up.  I checked through some of the previous notes.  One person
    recommended a tools which sort of looked like a flattened hoe (or
    an ice-chipper).  Maybe if I take a file to the tool and sharpen
    the edges, it will work.  
    
    If I decide to take the carpeting up,  I'll write in all my complaints
    and experiences.
    
    Steve
    

    My father was in the business for over forty years and throughout
    the course of time, there never was any real easy way or right or
    wrong way to do it.  He did have a tool that had a razor on the
    end of it that would literally peel the stuff up (remember, carpet
    guys have to go in, take it up and put it down in a morning or day
    - maybe even two or three) but that was over tile or wood floor.
     Cement is a lot trickier (blade tends to break).  My point is that
    it all revolves around the situation.  If the carpet that is down
    is clean, untorn, not worn to any great degree, is not a shag or
    high pile, and still has some "life" to it, it can be used as padding.
    The reason the old carpet is used as padding is mostly $$$$.  
    Padding, in a lot of ways, is more important than the carpet itself.
    No matter how good a grade the carpet is, if you have a padding that
    lacks firmness (too thin or low grade), it will speed the rate at
    which you mat the piling.  There's no give.  Same can apply to carpet
    discussion but sticking to remove or not to remove, perhaps decide
    on the feel you want under your feet or look at your budget.  If
    you want "plush" soft, soft under foot, take up the carpet and put
    down at least 1/2-inch pad (be aware that grades differ for each
    thickness - step on each and you'll see what I mean).  Cost will
    be reflective.  If you are not fussy about feel and want to just
    get a covering, if the carpet is good, leave it.  When the new one
    is installed, they'll cut out along the edge of the wall and lay
    tacking strip (thats a tough job over cement or tile because cement
    and tile break up as the nail goes in but they do use concrete nails).
    I would not put down a rubber back over anything but floor.  There
    are in betweens to all of this too but you have to decide on what
    you want.  The stores recommend taking it up for sales purposes
    and alternately, say leave it down because it is somewhat of a pain
    in the bunzy to take up.  Middle road is to take up what you can,
    have the installers "shave" up (on the rubber back) what you can't and 
    put down medium grades in both pad and carpet.  If the carpet is
    not rubber back, condition is what to look for.  You do save money
    (no new pad, no new or very few replacement sticks) by paying for
    the installation and carpet.....

I have to put down several small carpets
on top of the wall-to-wall carpet without
any permanent connections such as glue or tack strips.
I wonder if there are "grabbers" or devices that
can hold down the top carpet which was moved
and kicked around and a nuisance to pull back in place everytime..
I tried Vellcro but the hook part has to be connected
to something with loops (it grabs onto my sweater ok) in which
the (wall-to-wall) bottom carpet lacks.
I search note 1111.2 and 2306 but could not come up with anything.
Any leads or advices are appreciated. Thanks.
-Bill
P.S. How about Vellcro-ing the top carpet to a "bed of nails"?

    Ahah.  It's not just me.
    
    Had expensive wall-to-wall put in.  To protect a couple of high
    traffic areas I cut out a couple of remnants and just placed them
    on top of the w/w.  I couldn't believe how much they moved with
    so little traffic that I did an experimnet - I marched up and down
    in place on one of the remnants and with each step it actually moved
    about an inch to the right!  So I turned the remnant 180 degrees
    and it STILL moved to the right under totally vertical pressure.
    
    Some strange interaction between the piles, I guess.

    Check the Automobile section of a department store and you should
    be able to find metal devices that you can use.  They have a head
    that consists of a mitten or suspender type of clip attached to
    a body that consists of two @2-inch needles that you slip into the
    permanant rug.  I use them to hold auto carpet in place.  They work
    great but you can't keep the metal clip from showing...unless maybe
    you have a shag rug.

    
    I have a late model van with carpeting through out. The rugs the
    come with it also have the same type of material for the mats.
    
    This is coated with what looks like a rubber type material and has
    a rough type texture. It holds in place very well and doesn't shift
    when being walked on or near.
    
    It is a Ford National Traveler, but I have seen similiar mats in
    the dept. stores.  Perhaps you can buy such a spray??
    
    Cal.
     

    Another question or two...
    
    I too am planning on putting carpet down in a split-entry's first
    floor over cement. I did NOT build a subfloor.
    
    1) How are the edges of the carpet handled? In a wooden floor, the
    tack strips are nailed into place. What about Cement Floors. Glue?
    
    2) If I use a liquid cement sealer (like Thompson's or equiv) should
    I also lay a plastic sheet down wall to wall? Should I add a 1/4-inch
    luan plywood floor as well? All of these?
    
    Mark

<    1) How are the edges of the carpet handled? In a wooden floor, the
<    tack strips are nailed into place. What about Cement Floors. Glue?
 	Tack strips, cement nails and a BIG hammer.  Tack strips are available 
	with the cement nails already in place.  I am assuming you wanted a 
	high quality pad and stretched wall to wall installation.
   
<    2) If I use a liquid cement sealer (like Thompson's or equiv) should
<    I also lay a plastic sheet down wall to wall? 
	Yes, get the thickest plastic you can find.  The thickness will prevent 
	ripping.  The plastic should go under the tack strips and overlap with 
	the plastic behind the wall.

<    Should I add a 1/4-inch luan plywood floor as well? All of these?
    	I would not use plywood unless the floor had lots of imperfections.

    We did this in our old house.  We got a mildew resistant pad, and
    a carpet with something called "action-backing" (TM) which is not
    made of the jute material.  We also got a mid-priced commercial
    carpet.  The carpet was layed, as mentioned, with tack strips into
    the cement floor. 
    
    We did have the unfortunate experience of having water in the basement
    one year when we had heavy rain in the spring.  One area we pulled
    the rug up a little and were able to get it dried out.   The other
    area was in our family room where we had a wood stove which helped
    to dry that out.  We did use a professional water extraction firm
    to get most of the water up.
    
    The rugs remained in very good condition.  Without the jute backing,
    they didn't shrink, and the one we pulled up was able to be
    re-stretched and put back on the pins.  The carpet people charged
    us $20 to do that.
    
    The pad was glued to the cement floor.
    
    	Ted

    I realize some time has passed since this note was entered but thought
    I'd reply for future reference.  My father did this kind of work
    for many years and I (having worked for him time and again for many
    years) can tell you the job was done by either inexperienced installers
    or guys who were more interested in finishing their daily work by
    2:00 pm.  Oh sure, one is not going to please all the people all
    the time but as a younger man learning the ins and outs, one of
    the first was "not to damage ANYTHING" never mind baseboard or walls.
     Although mistakes happen, the job described here was lack of the
    "edge trimmer" and using the razor knife parallel to the floor,
    cutting the carpet with the baseboard as the "cutting board".  Older
    practices allowed this but as time has passed, the trimmer made
    a MUCh cleaner job (no, I didn't do it but thats what I learned
    not to do).
     Same thing goes for just bringing the carpet into the place - the
    backing can easily rip wallpaper if brushed on, lets say, a seam
    in the paper (or chips to painted walls).  Here again, just a lack
    of care.  
    NOte:  Good installers will take every precaution to ensure that
    every step they take is the difference between a good job and an
    unsatisfactory job (as it should be for other types of home finishing).
    Sometimes good to them is not good to you.  There have been times,
    however, when the complaint issues have been bordering rediculous
    but not here

    for future use  - although .3 describes it pretty well, as everything
    else is, the first time through should be a practice on something
    you can throw out (scraps..)  There are always little gotchas. 
    You can really mess things up if not done right.  For instance,
    both edges that will meet must/more than should be cut neatly (straight
    edge type) or the result will be little gaps along the seam (catch
    one with a shoe and see what happens) or overlaps.  Seams should be done on
    an area with LEAST traffic (like where a couch will sit) if at all
    possible.  That way, you are not tramping on it and risking a
    separation. when adhering, the two pieces that come together should
    meet so that they are "to" each other perfectly (can't have one
    side with a rollercoaster edging and the other flat - won't meet
    right and you'll be able to poke your finger through where it didn't
    meet right).  All the tractor does is make a finished appearance
    (can't make things look better if the basic adhere isn't right).
    If it repairing small separation, 1)make sure the carpet is still
    in good shape (sometimes a separation will be a carpet tear and
    requires much more than a seam job) 2)if new at it, take .1's advice.
    Most likely the carpet you have cost you a good penny.  An
    installer/repairperson can advise you whats best (in most cases)
    and give you the "can't fix that" or "be done in a few minutes"
    if any good.

    This seems, like a good place to ask, I have just finished
    adding on a bedroom and am now trying to match the carpet in the
    hall. I would like to do the install myself, since everything else
    was done by me, and am looking for a place that sells the tack strips,
    stretcher, irons, heat tape, etc. Also has anyone had any luck with
    carpet places who deal with DIY'ers. The couple of places I called,
    tied in the installation with the price and had "specials" so that
    by buying the pad, and carpet seperately you don't save anything.
    The bedroom installation will be  pretty straight forward, no intricate
    cuts, and only 4 seams: two closets, one 1/2 bath and the existing
    hall carpet. Any info would be greately appreciated.
    							Chris

    Hello all you DIYers!
    
    I've been reading this file for a while now, getting lots of good
    ideas (thanks!)
    
    We took the advise from some previous entries on how to remove a
    non-load bearing wall in our house (about 2 years old).  The wall
    separated the living room and dining room.
    
    My question is:
    
    	1) With this wall gone, we have to install carpet where the
           wall was - how do I do this?
    
    We have some carpet that is the same colour, and it IS big enough,
    but...I've never done this type of thing before.  Is it hard?
    
    	2) The other catch is that where the wall used to be, there
           was a doorway that had carpet under it...that is...
    
    	 |			                                 |
         |                                                       |
         |------------------              -----------------------|
         |                 |     Carpet   |                      |
         |   No carpet here|     Here     |    No carpet here    |
         |------------------              -----------------------|
         |                                                       |
    
    	   Is this hard(er)? 
    
    I originally thought I'd have an installer do it, but I can't get
    one for at least 3 weeks, and the minimum charge just for showing
    up is $75 !  
    
    Any help or information would be appreciated!
    
    
    
    Dave

My first, off the cuff response is that unless the carpet is very new, and 
matches the scrap you have exactly, and unless the area where the wall was is 
now going to be covered by furniture or something, you're going to have a heck 
of a time making this look like anything other than somewhere that a wall used 
to be.

If you want it to look right, you'll probably have to bite the bullet and 
recarpet the whole thing.

Paul

    Actually, we have big pieces of the carpet (not just little scraps),
    that are new, and never been walked on!
    
    These are what I want to install in .0
    
    We would really like to do this ourselves (if possible) without
    recarpeting the whole room - and I think it CAN be done!
    
    
    Dave

but as you say, free advise...

:^)

    Just in case .1's reply wasn't understood fully, let me try it.

.1> you're going to have a heck of a time making this look like anything other
  > than somewhere that a wall used to be.

.2> Actually, we have big pieces of the carpet (not just little scraps), that
  > are new, and never been walked on!  These are what I want to install in .0
    
    It seems to me that even a pro won't be able to make the patch look two
years old.  Pros (and DIY'ers who practice a lot) can:  make seams that are
virtually invisible; pad and glue it all down so you can't FEEL the patch.
But, again _it seems to me_, the patch will LOOK new for a long while, maybe
when the 2-year-old patch is indistinguishable from the 4-year-old carpet.

    I wonder if a threshold-type thing would "hide" the gap by emphasizing it.

I have no experience in carpeting, but lack of knowlege never stops me 
from adding my opinions! 8^)

Seems to me that you can give it a try, all it will cost you is some time,
glue, and carpet scraps, and if it looks like sh*t, *THEN* have the whole
thing replaced.

Have any kids?  They'll age your carpet real fast for you!  8^)

Bob

    Rinse-n-vacing the patch region will help blend it in after the patch
    is in place. You don't say if there are any nearby seams that you could
    strip back to. If you're lucky enough to have this be the side of the
    room where a seam was made you might win by replacing this section
    instead of just the wall area. At any rate I would think that a single
    patch (removing the doorway section) would be more durable. Wall areas
    aren't typically high traffic areas so you might blend 2 year old low
    traffic with new.

    
    	Had something similar done a while back and it looks pretty
    good. Here's how the guy did it. First he installed some tack
    strip on the wall side ( carefull, its sharp ) then he undid
    about a foot of the existing carpet on either side from the
    existing tack strip. Next he stapled down the padding. Now the
    trickey part. He laid down three pieces of carpet seaming tape
    under the edge of the existing carpet and laid the patch on top.
    Next he slowly went around the seam with a seaming iron ( sort
    of a T shaped affair where the top of the T goes between the
    carpet and the tape),then lifted the carpet where he had pulled it
    loose to get the iron out. Finally he used a kicker to push the
    carpet up flush with the wall and went down the edge with a mallet
    to secure it to the tack strip.
    	You should be able to rent a seaming iron and a kicker and purchase
    the tape and tack strip at the same place. Ask a lot of questions
    and DEFINITELY practice on some scrap carpet first.
    
                                             
    

    The seam iron runs about $100 or so.  The tack strip comes in large
    boxes which will cover about 400 feet or so.  Send me mail with
    what you need.  I have extra that I'd be willing to sell cheap.
    Also, be careful about where you buy things like padding.  After
    the fact, I found that I could have saved 50% on the padding by
    going to a supplier rather than purchasing from a carpet dealer.
    
    Dan

    My free advise:
    
    1) Wait 3 weeks and pay a professional with the right tools, materials
       and skill to do it.
    
    or
    
    2) Remove the carpet from the dining area and lay hardwood floors!;-)
       (I was lucky enough to have hardwood hiding under my carpet
        already.)
    
    Phil

    Somerville Lumber rents a kit, consisting of the seam iron, a roller
    to spread the melted glue and hide the seam and the tool for stretching
    and holding down the carpet.  They also have a video tape in the
    kit.  
    
    The rental cost is $20 (a one-time charge); you keep the kit for
    as many days as you want--however they do hold a $200 deposit in
    the meantime.
    
    I've used it; it's a good deal.
    
    

    
    RE: .7 (Slummerville "deposits")
    
    A word of caution about "deposits" at Slummerville.  When I borrowed
    a video from them a while back they asked for a "deposit" in the
    form of a credit card slip.  I expected that the slip would be filed
    and torn up when the video was returned.  Nyet.  They actually
    submit the charge.  Then when you return the video, they submit
    a credit.  I guess I shouldn't have been too surprised considering
    their cash register setup.  I don't know if they are still submitting
    "deposits".
    
    Phil

    I would have to agree with the threshold idea. There is a lot
    out there to choose from, alum., marble, wood etc. Seems to me
    that doing this would make it seem like the opening was there 
    since day one!

    I was on a DEC residency for a company which manufactures the carpet
    squares.  The carpet comes in different grades, color, style, and
    about 30 other things which many DATATRIEVE reports generate for
    them.  The company name was Interface Flooring, Inc. in LaGrange
    Georgia.  I don't have the address but I called 1-404-555-1212 and
    the phone company said the number is 1-404-882-1891.

    They have the carpet squares as the carpet in the office.  When they
    come out with new styles and grades, they pull up the tiles in the
    lobby and the stairways and put down some on the new styles to see
    how they wear.  It is a kaleidoscope of patterns and colors but you
    can tell which are going to last and those that will not.

    I looked for a discussion on what would be a good, 
    DURABLE carpeting choice, and haven't found any notes 
    on it here & haven't been able to access ALIEN::CONSUMER, so:
    
    What TYPE and BRANDS of carpeting and PADDING should I consider for a 
    family/living room (new construction) since it will see .... 
    kid's play, stains, traffic ?  I'd prefer something plush enough
    to sit on and watch TV, etc.
    
    WHERE should I look for a good price (possibly Southern NH) ?
    
    Thanks for your help, and if there is a discussion that I missed,
    please let me know,
    Gail 

    Re .11
    
    Consumer moved to LYCEUM:: about 1-1/2 months ago.  If you modify
    your entry you should have no problem.
    
    ep

    I have area rugs on top of hardwood floors.  There is a plastic(?)
    mesh-type thing you can buy in rug stores that keeps the rugs
    from slipping.  I don't know if it would work between carpet
    and carpet.  It comes in rolls a foot or two or three wide, and is
    quite cheap, if I remember correctly, so
    you might buy a small piece of it to test.
    

How do I find good carpeting at a good price?  My husband has installed
    carpet so we will be doing this ourselves.  We live in the Londonderry
    area.  I appreciate you help.  Thank you.

    Although there are no topics directly concerned with suppliers of
    install-it-yourself carpets, there are probably comments about them
    sprinkled throughout the topics listed in 1111.21.
    
    You may also find useful recommendations in LYCEUM::CONSUMER.
    
    					DCL, moderator

    Also see 2006.4.

    re: .0
    
    The problem is not where to purchase the carpeting as any carpet place
    will sell it.  The problem is where to get the rest of the needed
    "stuff."  Carpet dealers will sell you the padding by the yard same as
    the carpet, but the price is high.  I would suggest that you go to
    Carpet Products in Manchester.  They not only have the padding at a
    reasonable price, but also have the tac-strip you will need for a
    wall-to-wall installation.  The only bad thing is that they require
    cash or check, no plastic.
    
    Dan

    I saw tack strip at Builders Square last time I was there.
   

Is there such thing as "tall" and "short" teeth on tackless strips?  Let me 
explain...

A carpet just installed in the basement has a short nap (1/4" tops).  In many
places, I can feel (ouch!) the nails coming through the nap.  I checked in my
living room and I have to really hunt to find them.  The other rug has a 
considerably larger nap, so that helps.  

Anyone know if the strips come in "sizes" depending on nap height?


/Chris

    
    I had carpeting installed last year, and was there during the 4
    day operation. When the guy attached the carpeting to the tacks,
    he then ran a flat piece of metal over them to push them to one
    side, so that it now grabs the carpeting.
    
    Mike

    I had a simular problem with trusty hammer in hand I pounded 'em flat
    towards the wall so they held the grip.
    
    -j

    
      
    I have looked at the other notes on carpets but could not find
    one that would help me, so here goes.....
    
    We are in the process of purchasing a carpet for our family room
    and have recently looked at Paine Furniture (in Natick) because
    all their carpets are on sale.  The ones that we are interested
    in are by Dupont (Stainmaster, 20 yr wear guarantee, etc.) and
    something called Good As Gold (Scotchguard, lifetime wear guarentee,
    will never mat, etc.).  The prices appear to be pretty good
    (Dupont's is $24 per sq yard...1/2 off and the Good As Good is $27/sq 
    yd. 7including installation and padding).  The questions that I have
    are as follows:
    
    o  has anyone out there dealt with Paine Furniture as far as
       purchasing having the carpet installed?
    o  does anyone have any experience with this Good AS Gold carpet
       as far as wear and non-matting is concerned?
    
    According to the salesperson, the Dupont carpet that we are looking
    at is a plush and it is softer and thicker than the Good As Gold
    and will wear just as well as the Good As Gold and that I would
    not have to be concerned about the matting.
    
    Also, in some of the other notes I read about carpeting, some people
    mentioned ounces and loops.  It sounds like if there are more loops
    and ounces to the square yard (or is that square ft), the better
    quality the rug.)  How does that apply to nylon carpets?
    
    Any advice/guidance that you can provide me would be of great help
    since we are planning on making the purchase this weekend.
     
    Jean
    

    P.S.  I have also posted this notes in CONSUMER.

    There is a book called the complete book of carpeting that is put
    out by Dupont, it's actually more like a pamphlet. It is very good
    and goes over construction, backing, fiber, design. Paine should
    have it , as well as any good carpet retailer, if they sell Dupont.
    It also goes over stain removal. See if you can find it, it will
    answer many of your questions.
    
    							Chris
  

    I peeled back some wall-to-wall carpeting in a walk-in closet
    and found the following items:
    
    . about 1/4 lb. loose unhulled sunflower seeds
    
    . loose birdseed
    
    . Loose little greenish pellets--perhaps hamster, gerbil, or rabbit
                  food
    
    
    I find it hard to believe that professional carpetlayers or a previous
    owner would have carpeted over this kind of stuff.  Does anyone have
    any ideas?  I found the discovery of this material quite nauseating.

    
    	Either that or the previous owners stored their pet food in
    	that closet and over time spillage worked it's way under the
    	carpet at the walls.

    
       Has the w/w carpet come loose from the tack border? Or is there a 
    definate point of entry near the seeds, etc.? If the whole border is
    loose if could have resulted from spillage. If not I suggest a baited
    mouse trap. Wait and see if any creatures show......... 

    I haven't seen this yet, so I'll ask it here:
    
    We are having carpeting installed in our addition.  Should the carpet
    be put down before the baseboard, or vice-versa?
    
    To me, much of the baseboard is hidden when the carpet is second.
    However, I don't know what kind of problem would exist if/when we
    had the carpet replaced and the baseboard had been second.
    
    Any suggestions?
    
    Lee

    
    Baseboard first, carpet second.
    
    CdH
    

    
    
    Baseboard gets installed first, then the carpet, when installing
    the baseboard, raise it off the floor by about 1/2", use
    scrap pieces of baseboard to elevate the baseboard off the floor
    when installing it.
    
    When installing hardwood floors, the basboard goes on last.
    
    
    
    Royce

    RE .10...6 of one , half dozen of another...My contractor put down the 
    baseboard before the hardwood floors..He said ALL baseboard should go
    down first...If a carpetman/floorman is good enough..they scribe their
    product to the baseboard..Lousy work gets the baseboard cover-up..
    
    
    					oh well....good luck
    
    								john
    

	When laying a hardwood floor the gap between the wall and floor
    is left there to allow for expansion of the wood.  If the baseboard is
    put down before the floor then there is no room for the floor to
    expand with seasonal humidity changes and I'd be worried about the
    floor buckling over time.  Maybe the contractor takes pride in his
    ability to get an exact fit between the floor and the baseboard but it 
    sounds like a a good skill used at the wrong time.
    
    George
    

    I'd base it on the permanence of the floor material.   Baseboard last
    over tile or hardwood, baseboard first with carpet or other material
    likely to need replacement at intervals.
    
    Unless you are very lucky you will find that with square or rectangular
    flooring material (tiles or wood parquet), the room you thought was
    square and the walls you thought were dead straight usually aren't.
    Baseboard over saves a lot of time and potential ugliness of visible
    variable-width grout lines.

    
      I'd like to meet this contractor who puts down base boards first.
    Anybody who's done any flooring work knows the hardwood goes down
    first and then the base boards. It looks alot better and is also the
    proper way. 

>< Note 1754.14 by VISE::LEVESQUE "Never ever enough" >
>                                 -< right way >-


Actually, In older homes the baseboard was always put down first and the 
hardwood flooring scribed and fitted to the baseboard. This was and is 
considered superior workmanship.

Ross

	It may be an example of superior ability with tools but that
    doesn't make it superior workmanship.  If you install them in the
    winter they'll expand in the summer, if you put them in in the summer
    then they'll contract in the winter and you are left with a gap
    between the baseboard and floor anyway.

>< Note 1754.16 by SALEM::PAGLIARULO_G >
>                      -< Oh Boy! Another Discussion :-) >-
>
>	It may be an example of superior ability with tools but that
>    doesn't make it superior workmanship.  If you install them in the
>    winter they'll expand in the summer, if you put them in in the summer
>    then they'll contract in the winter and you are left with a gap
>    between the baseboard and floor anyway.



Didn't seem to be a problem in the homes I've seen. And keep in mind, this was
regular practice in most older homes with strip flooring. 
Also it eliminates the baseboard to floor gap. I believe I have an article 
somewhere at home about this. I'll try and locate it.

Ross

In my 63 year old home, the baseboard was put in first, then the hardwood
floor, then quarter-rounds to cover the gap.  They used higher quality
hardwood than I've been able to find these days, so I don't think it was
just a slap dash job.

In the new home I recently moved from, the baseboard and all doorways
were put in first, and the hardwood floor last.  It wasn't so bad around
the baseboards, but it was ugly where they had to cut the hardwood floor
to fit around the door moldings -- and it made it impossible to change
the door moldings if I had ever wanted to do that.

I learned, I think in this file, that the "real" reason for doing the
baseboards before the floor is to save trouble for the contractor.
Once the floor is down you have to be very careful about marring the
floor, so they like to do everything else first.  Also, I understand
that it simplifies scheduling to have the baseboards done at the same
time as other stuff that has to happen before the floor goes down.

So, in the addition that I'm planning for a few years out, I will put
in the baseboards myself after the floor is done.  I certainly intend
for the floor to be level enough that there won't be any noticable
gap between the baseboards and the floor.  Besides, a gap under the
baseboard is less noticable than a gap between the baseboard and
the wood floor, because we nornally look down at the baseboards.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

>< Note 1754.18 by RGB::SEILER "Larry Seiler" >
>                             -< One more opinion >-

Could be, seems like a plausible answer. I first came across this type
of installation when I was trying to remove baseboard to snake some
romex. I don't remember the quarter round, but I've seen it used in newer
homes.
The only reason I mention it (I'm not an advocate of baseboard first), is
people shouldn't dismiss it as an improper installation. The homes that
I've worked in and see this type of flooring installation were quality built 
homes.


Ross

I'm not advocating one way or the other but how much is the wood likely to
shrink?   Unfortunately I dont have a choice. My pine floors were put down
after the molding.

Larry Cohen

    RE .14
    
    	I'm not sure of the right/wrong way BUT.. of the 7 floor installers
    I called....ALL 7 asked if they contracted the job to have my carpenter
    put the baseboard in FIRST...
    
    RE .15 ... I agree...My floor looks great scribed to the baseboard...
    
    			6 of 1 half dozen....
    
    									j

    I saw a show this week that also suggested putting the baseboards in
    before the carpet.....but, they suggested raising it, 3/8" and to
    secure to the studs with two nails.

               <<< JOET::DUA1:[NOTES$LIBRARY]HOME_WORK.NOTE;1 >>>
                         -< Better living through DIY >-
================================================================================
Note 2006.21                    Carpet installers                       21 of 21
MARX::SULLIVAN "I hate being a grownup! Can I be 8 again?"  22 lines  27-DEC-1989 11:23
           -< Installers who will install carpet bought elsewhere? >-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

	A question related to .20...

	Has anyone ever hired an installer directly? (i.e. without going 
through the place where you bought the carpet). I know that some installers
are independent contractors who are hired by the carpet stores. I would
imagine that one of these folks would come out to repair the carpets in 
the last reply.

	The reason I am asking is that I am considering looking into some of
the mail order carpet deals that are advertised in some of the DIY magazines
(in my case, Fine Homebuilding). Has anyone ever looked into this? Are the
prices much better? etc....


						Mark

P.S. Please do not reply with notes on how easy it would be for me to install
the carpet myself. I have enough work around my new house to keep me busy
for at least 10 years. This is one job I'd rather have someone else do. I
don't have the equipment and it would be awful expensive if I made an 
amateur's mistake.

    re .22
         I have purchased carpeting on sale in Holyoke and in Springfield,
    transported it to a mobile home in Marlboro Vermont and contracted
    installation through Wilmington Home Center in Wilmington,VT.  They
    did not seem concerned over where i purchased the carpet.  Apparantly
    the installers were looking for something to do.  The installation
    cost was the same as it would have been had the carpeting been 
    installed in Mass.
    
    

    If the moderator chooses to move this, please feel free, i looked
    for this question, but couldn't find it...
    
    
    I am going to purchase new carpeting. I would like to know about
    the materials carpeting is made out of and the pros and cons of
    each material..
    
    Olefin and Nylon blend
    Herculon
    100% Nylon
    100% wool
    100% Berclon
    
    thanks,
    toni

    1183 discusses which carpets are better but not specifically which
    materials in a nice neat breakdown like you are asking for.
    
    You may discuss the materials here ad nauesaum but if you have
    recommendations for a brand of carpet, please use 1183.
    

    thank you for you help.. i read 1183 and my questions are still
    unanswered.
    
    I understand that we could go until the year 2000 with these questions,
    but I am looking at these types of fibers.. I have called numerous
    carpet stores and cannot seem to get a solid answer. I find that 
    whatever will get them a sale is what they will sell me, regardless
    of the quality.
    
    If you have carpeting or know something about carpeting please contact
    me directly if you don't want it in the notesfile - i just don't want
    to throw my money away.. i work hard for it...
    
    thanks,
    toni

    I've been reading a lot lately about "healthy homes" which tend
    to be VERY nature-oriented.  They seem to universally say to avoid
    carpeting because the synthetic fibers (like nylon) and the fiber
    treatments (like scotchguarding and fireproofing) and the minute
    fiber fragments and the backing materials and the (often) foam pads
    are all bad for allergies and some outgas toxics like formeldehyde.(sp)
    
    I haven't decided how alarmist I think all this is, but it's something
    you might want to consider, especially if anyone in the family has
    symptoms that might be "sick building" symptoms.  (New carpeting
    is much worse than old carpeting because it hasn't had a chance
    to air and outgas through a long period  of time.)  That's why ZKO3
    had air quality tests done last year -- it was all new and a number
    of people seemed to be reacting.  (If you or family members sneeze
    when you go into carpet stores, consider it a sign!)
    
    According to what I recall, if you want carpeting anyhow, you should
    at least look at natural fibers (wool) with the felt-type pad and
    the minimal amount of chemical treatments realistic for your family
    and lifestyle -- scotchguarding for messy types (like me!) would
    still be essential, for example.
    
    You can probably find more information of the type you actually
    ASKED for in a library in Consumer Reports and in books about home
    maintenance like "Make your house do the housework" by Don Aslett.
    
    Sherry

    
    My Dad makes latch-hook rugs...we have quite a few.  In the last house
    we had wall-to-wall (that I HATED) and put the hand made rugs down on
    top of the carpet.  Now we have wood floors and the rugs
    slip...DANGEROUS!  So I've rolled them up until I find/get padding.
    The rugs are wool and the floors are not in too bad shape (for 100+
    years old).  I don't want to get a cheap rubber stuff that will stick
    to the rugs or floors and break up into little bits that get all over
    everything else in the house.
    
    Can anyone recommend a brand name or type of padding.  Could I go into
    a carpet store and just buy a big piece to cut to size myself?  (they
    are good size...not your typical scatter rugs)  Does the ever great
    Spag's carry padding (I've only been there twice...I know where the
    paint is!)
    
    Thanks.
    
    PS. this was the closest title topic to my question, hope it's the
    right place.
    

    We bought an oriental rug from Rotmans in Worcester about two years
    ago. The padding they sold us is made from some kind of fiber that
    looks natural to me. It is definitely not rubber or foam and it
    won't stick to the floor. It has taken the abuse very well. The
    rug and padding are now rolled and stashed against the wall until 
    our puppy is properly trained and the only sign of "wear" is from the 
    dog gnawing on the edges. Can't win for loosing.

You can get a type of padding that is intended to keep rugs from slipping.
It is a rubbery mesh, and one brand I have seen is called Ultra Blue.  The
padding you get in carpet stores does not serve to prevent slipping - it
is there to provide resliency and sound absorption.  Most of it has at least
one side backed with a rather slippery plastic.

					Steve

    We use a rubber mesh obtained from The Country Store in Vermont by
    mail order.  It has held up for two years now, on a waxed, hardwood
    floor, leaving no residue and doing no damage to either floor or carpet.
    
    pbm
    

    If all you are concerned with is the slipping problem, then you might
    want to get some Velcro strips and whip stitch them to the bottom the
    rug (removeable stitching) and with a light adheasive (similar to the
    stuff on Post-it notes) put the other half of the Velcro to the wood
    floor, and presto!!!  no more slipping.  Plus you don't have to worry
    abut whether or not you are alergic to the padding.  
    
    Good luck
    
    Patrick

    I sent away to S and S Mills, I think thats the name, for information.
    They sent me out a "kit" which included 50 or so samples in a nice
    display book. I was very impressed with the quality. However, I
    was trying to match some existing carpet and they did not have the
    color I needed so I did not order from them. I would definately
    look into this when I need more carpeting. When I did get the carpet
    it was only $75 to have it installed and I was busy finishing up
    the room. The installer I talked to said that he did "private" jobs
    all the time. If I can find his number I will post it here.
    
    								Chris

    Consumer reports (I can supply you with the month/year of issue) has
    done some excellent reasearch in their report on Upholstered furniture.
    It covers the comparison with olefin, nylon, wool and various fibers
    that make up the upholstery on furniture. It would be quite applicable
    to rugs. 
    
    FWIW, generally, it had olefin as the better all around wearing fiber.
    

    My grandmother, who made a lot of rugs from "scatter" size to large,
    used to sew the rubber sealing rings from canning jars to the binding
    of the rugs at their corners, using rings that were worn out for use in
    the kitchen.  My brother and I used to prefer the rungs that did NOT
    have the non-skid rings yet, when we were kids... the rings did not
    harm the floor, but they might be hard to find these days.

    I am part owner of a store-front business. We are in need of a new
    carpet and would like to get one of good quality, installed, at the 
    very best price. Our store is roughly 20-by-80' and located in the 
    Northampton area of Massachusetts. Are there any Wholesale carpet 
    distributors that would deal with us?
    
    We would be grateful for any suggestions.         
    
    Dave Fritsch

    dave,
    try carpet factory outlet in holyoke on rte 5 across from Kmart,
    or on Boston Rd. , Springfield,  but don't buy it unless its on
    sale.  you can get some very good deals when you catch a sale.
    
    mike
    

    
    
    	I live in Winchendon and am in the process of finishing my
    	basement. 
    
    	Where should I start looking for  the best deal on carpetting
    	in the central Mass and south western N.H. area ?
    
    						Mike
    						----

    I'm contemplating installing carpet in a room we are building in our
    basement - that is, I'm contemplating installing it *myself*. I am not
    a klutz, since I have done all the work on the room so far, and I'd
    really like to save some $$ if possible.
    
    I have never had experience installing carpet per se, but it seems, 
    from reading this topic, that if it is done carefully it is possible 
    for a good result the first time, even without the help of someone 
    who's done it before...
    
    Is this true, or am I in for problems, dissapointment, lost time and
    extra expense if I try it myself? Anybody else tried it for the first
    time and done ok? Not done ok??
    
    Comments and suggestions all greatly appreciated!
    
    Thanks,
    
    Ed
    

    RE; .7
    
    You don't say what size the room is. so...
    
    If the room is small, you should be able to install the carpeting
    without too much trouble.  You might have a hard time finding the
    tackless though.  Most carpet stores don't carry it (their installers
    supply their own.)  If the room exceeds 12' in both direcions then you
    will need to seam the carpet.  This takes some practice as well as
    special tape and an iron.  Also, a carpet stretcher would make the
    installation easier.
    
    Contact me offline for more details.  I have some supplies left over
    from a few installations that you might be able to use.  If you are in
    the MRO area, I can lend you the installation stuff mentioned above.
    
    Dan

Picture a set of carpeted stairs.  There are two places where the seams are 
letting go.  The seams in question are on the back of the treads where it meets 
the raisers:


        |
        |   There
        | /
        |/
        -----------------
                       |
                       |
                       |

  There are tacking strips in place.  Its just that from use the carpet has
  become seperated from the strips.  

  How can I fix this?  Roofing nails with big washers thru the carpet come 
  to mind. :-)  Maybe I need to borrow/rent one of those knee hammers thingies
  that the pros use?

thanks,
andy

    You could try a staple gun.  Or some small brads.  I used the brads
    about 2 years ago on a runner on our stairs, and a couple popped out,
    but the carpet is still tight (I think I could've used a longer brad)
    

RE: .-1
    
    The knee hammers thingy that you refer to is called a knee-kicker (real
    technical huh??)  The knee-kicker will not help much in this situation
    since it wont get close enough to the riser.  What is used is called a
    stair-tool (again real technical...) This tool looks similar to a wide
    brick chisel.  The end of the tool is somewhat rounded so it won't cut
    the carpeting.
    
    I would suggest that you use a dull chisel like mentioned above and
    push the carpeting back into the corner of the stair as indicated
    below.
    

        |
        |  Strike with chisel here at 30 - 45 degree angle.
        | /
        |/
        -----------------
                       |
                       |
                       |

    This should push the carpeting over the tack strip enough to catch once
    again.  If this doesn't work, then either the carpet is torn or the
    tack strip has been bent sufficiently not to allow the carpeting to
    catch.  Either option requires replacement of something (tackless or
    carpet.)
    
    Dan

re: .28

	Thanks.  I'll check the tack strip to see if it is ok, then find 
something dull around the house (that should be easy), then procede to chop
down the stairs.

There's the right solution (replacing the tackless or the rug) and 
there's the quick&dirty solution.  When I had to get a carpet put
down quick on a stair because we kept slipping on it, I did it
quick&dirty, figuring I didn't have time to do it right and could
always redo it later.  I attached the rug with a staple gun.

Two years later, the rug is lose on one or two treads, that I
think I didn't attach as well, so I'll just staple them down
again when I get around to it.  The staples aren't noticable.

Normally, I like to "do it right", but sometimes doing it quickly
(and cheaply) is better.  If the situation in .26 causes a slip
hazard, instead of being just a cosmetic problem, I'd recommend 
using a staple gun quick and worrying about the tackless later.

	Enjoy,
	Larry

    Another carpet installation question:
    
    What kind of subfloor is required under capret?
    
    Is just 3/4" plywood subfloor sufficient?
    
    Are there any building codes in this regard?
                            --tom

    Building codes will vary, but 3/4" tongue and groove plywood was
    acceptable to the Concord, MA building inspector for use under
    carpeting.
    
    Bob

    Our problem is removing a carpet which is sticking to a vinyl tile
    floor.  It was never glued but we suffered some water damage from 
    a leaking pipe a couple of years ago.  We now want to remove the carpet
    and use the vinyl floor of this basement playroom.  Apparently the
    water caused the carpet to bond to areas of the vinyl underneath.  I
    don't want to spend days scraping it off where it sticks.  Could I
    apply heat to loosen it?  Any other alternatives that paint thinnker?
    My daughter will be playing in this room and I'm afraid of the fumes
    remaining.
    Thanks for your suggestions.
    
        Mary
    
    

    I had this same situation and found that resoaking the carpet with
    water made it much easier to remove. Some scraping was still needed but
    it did not go too badly.
    Sandy
    

    How do I get a mustard stain [ French's ] off a nylon wtw rug?  The
    residue is still apparent.

    My littlest guy managed to knock over a lamp and burn a hole a little
    larger than a quarter in the wall-to-wall carpet.  The hole goes all
    the way through the backing to the pad.

    I know the professionals can cut out the damaged section, and secure a
    new piece in its place.  I have some extra carpet, can I do the same
    thing myself?  How?

We have found a product called "Resolve" (DuPont?) to work very well on just 
about everything our messy kids have been able to do.  We bought some on the 
recommendation of an exceedingly neat person (whose kids are grown), and are 
glad we did.

							-- Chuck Newman

Resolve is available in grocery stores.  I've used it on some long-outstanding
stains and it did a pretty good job.  But overall it is fairly weak as a
solvent.

Some other things to try:

	"Oops" - generally sold as a latex paint remover, but is useful
	   for other types of stains.  Available in hardware stores.  Follow
	   the directions VERY carefully

	"DeSolvIt" - a citrus-based solvent that is good for getting out
	    gummy residues, but also works on other kinds of stains.  I
	    found mine at Somerville Lumber.

	"Simple Green" - sold in hardware stores; surprisingly effective
	    on many kinds of stains, but follow directions carefully.

Consumer Reports did a recent review of carpet cleaners, you might browse
through the article.

			Steve

    If it were me I'd...
    
          1. Try just cutting some pile off a spare piece and see if I
             glue it down enough to hide the burn.
    
          2. When that failed, I'd use a razor knife to cut a square
             out of the carpet *just* big enough to get rid of the 
             burn. 
    
          3. Cut an appropriately sized "patch" out of the spare carpet.
     
          4. Glue it in place.
    
    ...probably work better with hi-pile carpeting.
    
    Edd

    I recently had a similar problem -- my carpet was burned with an iron
    very badly. I was lucky in that a friend of mine had a friend who's in
    the carpet installation business. Anyway, he came over and fixed while
    I watched verry carefully. My conclusion was that I certainly cound of
    fixed but not anywhere near as well. This is due to two things: his
    skill vs my skill and the "right" tools -- in particular a little 
    device pulled and stretched the newly added piece so that it is all
    but undetectable.
    
    	Good luck,
    
    	\Gil Goodridge

    If you do decide to try repairing the damage yourself, make sure the
    section of carpet that you piece in, lays the same way the rest
    of your carpet does.   

    To figure out the direction of the nap, run your hand over the 
    surface of your WTW carpeting in different directions and observe
    how the carpet lays with each stroke.  Do the same with the patch
    piece and try the best you can to match it up.  This will lessen
    the obviousness of the repair.

    Good luck,
    Jodi-

I wouldn't glue the patch down.  I'd use tape, sticky-side up, to attach
the patch to the surrounding carpet.  I think there's a type of tape
("carpet tape") made specifically for fastening carpets.

    The type of tape used to join to pieces of carpet does not work like
    normal tape.  It is woven fibers of thread which form a grid pattern
    for strength with a heavy kraft type paper backing and a meltable
    plastic, very much like glue gun sticks, on the "sticky side".   A
    special iron is used to heat the plastic which when cool binds the two
    sides together.  
    
    You could use this to patch with I guess.  The irons are usually about
    8-12 inches long and about 4-6 inches wide.  You could melt the plastic
    and then apply it to the back of the carpet, and then put the patch in
    the hole before it cooled.  This would glue the patch to the carpet.
    
    The irons can be rented and the tape is usually sold at the rental
    stores for about $7-$10 a roll.  The plastic melts and leaves a reside
    on the iron so I very strongly recommend that you NOT use a standard
    home iron unless you never want to use it for clothing again.  Since
    the hole you are patching is so small, you might be able to talk a
    carpet installer to give you a piece of the tape for nothing.
    
    If you decide to go this way and can't find an installer to give you
    some and don't want to buy an entire roll, drop me a line and I will
    gladly send you a foot or two.  I have about a half roll left over
    from a while back.

    Does anyone have any suggestions on istalling a carpet in the cellar.
    It is slightly damp down there, but we are planning on getting a
    humidifier, and coating the cement floor wtih water repelent paint,
    is there any thing else I can do to prevent the carpet from getting
    damp. If it makes any difference this will be turned into an apartment
    so there will be heavy traffic.
    
    Tony
    

    The first things to do would be to determine of the dampness is from
    seepage or humidity. A quick way to do this is to take a 1 ft. square
    of aluminum foil and tape it to the floor with duct tape. after a day
    or so, take it up and check the underside. If its wet, you have a
    seepage problem. If its dry, but the top is damp, then its condensation.
    A DEhumidifier will help the second problem, but not the first.
    
    Eric

>    Does anyone have any suggestions on installing a carpet in the cellar.

      My recommendation is: don't do it.
      
      I also don't recommend installing vinyl flooring is a cellar.
      
      The  reason is:  moisture.  Sooner or later almost every cellar is
      going to have a moisture problem.  Permanently fastened carpet  of
      vinyl will make the situation worse.
      
      What  I recommend is (1) paint the floor (I assume it is concrete)
      with a basement floor paint.  This is available in brown and  gray
      --  there  may be more colors since I last looked.  Then (2) cover
      the floor with an area rug of rugs.  If you  want  a  wall-to-wall
      look,  use rugs that cover up to a few inches from all walls.  Now
      when you do have a wet cellar problem you can take up the rugs and
      hang them out to dry or have them cleaned.
      
      For heavy traffic areas use a non-slip pad under the rug(s).

          Now I'll sit back and listen to all who disagree with me...

HELP !!!!!

I dripped some acne cream om my bedroom rug.  I tried to clean it up, but 
it just made it worse.  I now have a large orange spot in the middle of a
gray carpet.

Any ideas on how to put color back into a carpet ??  Maybe dye, maybe try
to disolve some fibers in something to re-dye the carpet ????

I'm renting, so if I can't somehow cover this up reasonably, I'll probably
have to replace it.

Thanks.

Scott

    It can be repaired.  We had someone come in and remove a stained
    portion of an off-white carpet and replace it with a piece taken from a
    closet.  I can't recommend anyone locally as I was living in Texas at
    the time.

  It's also sometimes possible to bleach the stain out and re-dye the
  area to match the existing carpet. I don't know how well this works on
  synthetics, because I've only heard about it being done on wool
  orientals. In any case, it's a royal process, and isn't guaranteed to
  work (as you can imagine).

    RE: .0
    
    There is a product on the market called RESOLVE which should work.  If
    it doesn't, I have some "spot remover" used by installers which removes
    all kinds of stains.  It is primarily used to remove glue from vinyl
    floors but also works well to remove stains.  I guess from your node
    that you work in MRO as I do.  Contact me offline if you need further
    info.
    
    Dan
    

Resolve is a rather weak solvent, and is available in grocery stores, but
it does work for some kinds of stains.  However, the problem in the base note
is caused by the acne cream actually bleaching the dyes in the fiber, and 
no amount of "cleaning" will fix this.  The only solutions are patching or
re-dyeing.

I notice that Amoco now has a carpet fiber which resists bleaches - in fact,
you can pour bleach on it without harming it.  It has many other good
properties as well, and I will be considering this for future carpet
purchases.

				Steve

    I recently moved into a house with a shag carpet in the downstairs
    den.  The carpet looks fine, especially after I rented a carpet
    steam cleaner, but still smells from the dog of previous owners.
    I did buy the pet de-stinktifier additive for the steam cleaner,
    but it didn't take all the smell out.
                                                            
    The carpet is brown, and I want to replace it with a lighter color.
    
    So, should I incur the cost of a pro steam cleaning prior to selling
    it?  This probably would cost about what I'd get selling it, so
    it might not be worth it.
    
    Or, maybe I should just throw it away?  It's about 12 x 15.
                             
    What do YOU think?
    
    Bob...

You'd never get enough for the used carpet to justify any expense on it;
throw it out.

				Steve

    I don't think you could even give away a brown shag carpet for free.
    Like .1 said, just pull it up and throw it away.
    
    -al

    re: -.1 OK thanks for the answers.  I'll change my personal_name
    to "Pet smell on carpet is eternal"

                                     Bob...

    
    For those rugs that ARE worth saving, my neighbor gave me this squirt
    bottle of 'DOGTERGENT' that she got from the vets.  My dog had had an
    accident in the back of my cherokee and this stuff really did the trick
    on the carpet in the back.
    
    It's saved her wall to wall from her kittens.
    
    

    The smell from a dog can be removed with an enzyme cleaner specifically
    made for pets.  Perhaps the additive is not an enzyme?  If the rug
    really is worth saving, try buying a product called "Nature's Miracle".
    Most pet stores sell it.  However, if it was a cat, forget it!
    

If it's the smell from a previous owner's dog, then it's likely that the carpet
is only part of the problem.  The pad probably smells, too.  And, if it was a 
favorite spot for spot, the wood floor might have an odor to it as well.

Most of the pet odor removers work well on recent accidents, especially if the
area is cleaned properly first.  You have to blot most of the liquid out first,
then treat with the odor remover.  If the liquid was left in to seep into the 
rug, pad, and flooring, forget it!

We need 90 square yards of carpeting for a large, heavily use family area.

A local dealer is making us a 'deal uf a lifetime' on a 100% wool berber 
carpet, giving to us at about $32 per yard.

He says the existing carpet padding must be replaced as it is synthetic, 
and wool requres a natural fiber.

Is this such a great deal?  Also, the natural pad will add $400 to the 
bill, is it necessary?

    I don't think so.  We are in the process of carpeting our new home and 
    we got a fairy high quality berber carpet for our family room too.
    Our cost us $22/yd installed with 5 lb. padding.  What town is this
    for?  We saw two places for this price.  Post road carpet in Marlboro,
    and the Rug Shack in Gardner. We are going with the rug shack in
    Gardner because it closer by.  I am not positive if it is wool berber
    though.  Why wool?
    
    
    Kumar

When we bought our wool oriental, the store recommended a high-quality
rubber pad.

Why wool?  Wool's the best fiber for carpets.

    
    re .1
    
    I don't think you're getting wool carpet at $22/sq-yrd. Wool is
    expensive. In fact the cheapest I've seen it is $45/sq-yrd. The
    $32/sq-yrd price seems awfully good. 
    
    Mike

A contractor I know says that 100% wool carpeting is expensive to clean and
maintain.  Is this so?

    re: .4
    I wouldn't say so. Our current living room rug is a wool rug my
    parents bought about 35 years ago.  Although it shows some wear,
    it's still nothing to be ashamed of.  My impression is that wool
    is, if anything, easier to clean than synthetics.

Why not call some carpet cleaners and ask?

I called the Mohawk Carpet Cleaners of East Hartford, Ct.  

They said that wool spots easier, some stains like wine unless you get
them right away becom 'part of the carpet'.  He liked acrylics over n
because there were too many types of nylons, only two types of acrylic.

In a book, my wife read that nylon was preferred because it made the 
greatest advances in technology with the way it looks and wears, and 
in the acrylic family, oleofin is not as good.

   "Resolve" works great!  But I now have different problem.

   Yesterday, my son used a hairdryer to dry some pages he'd gotten wet. 
   The heat apparently melted the carpet fibers, so now I have several
   "scorchmelt" lines in my carpet.  

   Is there any way to remove these?


   							Terza

   P.S.-I never knew carpet would melt!

    My son did something very similar.  The only way I was able to remove
    the scorched part was to very carefully cut the burned part off.  With
    my carpet it was just the very tops of the fibers and I just cut away
    the tops that were burned.  I don't know what I would have done if it 
    were deeper burns.

Synthetic fiber carpets will certainly melt.  A sharp razor blade will slice
off the melted fiber ends - there's no other remedy.

				Steve

    
    You can always move the coffe table or a plant over the 
    burnt spot.....
    
    Never seen it done but it sounds good...short of replacing the carpet!
    -Cut the damaged area out in a square with a razor or very sharp
     knife parting the fibers as you go.
    _cut a larger section of mesh (something like a plastic screen)
    -glue (epoxey) it in under the rug.
    -then glue the patch on the mesh and weave the fibers so you  hide
     the seam. 
    
    *** This may work better on different types of carpet more then
        others and the degree of skill...
    
    JD

    Re last reply, that's like the time my dog chewed up a bottle
    of india ink on my pale green bedroom rug -- right smack dab
    in the middle.  I was lucky enough to be able to do some fur-
    niture arranging and moved the bed over the black spot.  Nobody
    but my dog and me were the wiser.
    
    Carol
    
    

    I am in the process of doing a bed room over and will shortly be at the
     point where I will be installing carpet. My question is should I put
    the Baseboard down first and then the carpet or the carpet first then
    the baseboard. Which comes first the baseboard or the carpet??
    
    Thanks 
    Tom

    Typically it is the baseboard (with about a 1/4-inch space between
    the bottom of the baseboard and the subfloor) before the carpet,
    but this is probably only so the carpenter doesn't have to come
    back after carpet is laid.

The baseboard should be first.  The carpet installer will nail the tack
strips next to the baseboard and trim to fit.  If the baseboard went on
last, you wouldn't be able to remove the carpet.

			Steve

    
    Baseboard first -- and the gap makes it easier to line up adjacent
    boards, and also makes for a neater carpet installation. I use a few
    baseboard scraps to set the gap.
    

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We have a room to carpet.  I won't be exact in the dimensions, but here is
the general layout:

			  _________
			  |       |   (closet is 2' deep)
		    4'    |       |
		+--------- closet  ------dddddd---+
		|				  |
		|				  |	xxx - window
		|				  |
		x				  |	ddd - door
		x				  |
		|				  |
	14'     |				  |
		|				  |
		|				  |
		|				  |
		|				  |
		|				  |
		|				  |
		+----------xxxxxxxxxxxxx----------+
				14'


Here's the question:  We found a carpet we love, at a good price for the
quality.  The carpet is 12' wide.  The estimate we got came in at 30 sq yds,
ordering 23' of carpet laid out as below.  They said this is so the carpet can
all run the nap in the same direction.  It leaves a 8'x7' piece, which
seems like a lot to us.


			|
		  2x7   |
			|
			|   12x16
		-------	|
			|
		  2x7	|
			|


My husband wants to do the following, which would mean ordering 18' of carpet, 
but would run the carpet in the 2x12 section in a different direction.  It uses
24 sq. yds. and saves us $200.  The 2'x2' piece would come from the scrap pieces
left at the right of the closet.


		  2x2	|
		------- |
			|
			|   12x16
		  2x12	|
			|
		 	|
			|

The question is, how much of a difference does it make to run the carpet in
the "wrong" direction?

Elaine

    A friend of mine whose family owns a carpet business did our upstairs
    bedrooms for us.  He presented a couple of different ways to layout the
    carpet.  He didn't say anything about nap, but did bring up where we
    wanted the seams to be.  We went with the option that gave us the
    smallest piece of carpet.  This did put a seam in the room rather than
    on a wall, but if he didn't tell me where the seam was I'd never know. 
    We ended up with barely enough carpet to make a couple of throwrugs out
    of.  I kept the pieces just in case I ever need to make a repair.

It may look quite different depending on the carpet.  This will be more true
with age as the carpet gets pushed down.  One one piece of carpet the fibers
will all be going:

		\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

while on the piece next to it they will all be going:

		////////////////////////////////////////

This will make one piece look darker than the other.

Stan

re: .1

If they didn't mention the nap, what kind of carpet is it?  Is it plush?  Does
it show the footprints,  or have different colors from when the vacuum goes over
it?

I'm trying to understand if what .2 says might be why they are doing this.

Thanks for the input so far.

Elaine

	    If the seam is visible, you will see a straight line dividing
	your carpet in half and it will become more visible the more you
	look at it.  If the nap matches and the installation is good, the
	seam between the two pieces of carpet will become less visible as
	the carpet gets broken in.  
	    I've only helped a friend install a few carpets but he was
	adamant about insuring we laid the carpets in the same direction.
	
					Tim

Okay, we'll here's another idea.  It keeps the carpet with the same nap, but
adds a few seams. This would mean ordering 18' of carpet, again saving us about
$200.  Two of the 2x2 pieces could come from scrap to the right of the closet. 
Is this bad?  Would a carpet installer refuse to do this?


		  2x2	|
		------- |
		  2x2	|
		-------	|   12x16
		  2x2	|
		-------	|
		  2x2	|
		  (etc.)|


Elaine

    A carpet installer might not refuse to do it, but he'd probably
    charge you more and the results might not be as good.  Given the 
    total cost of the job, and how long you'll live with it, decide 
    if it's worth futzing around that much.  Figure you'll have the
    carpet 20 years - that's $10/year for a top-quality job vs. a
    kludge.  Remember, if it doesn't come out well you'll HATE it for
    20 years.
    
    It's not as though you'll just waste the $200 either - you can get
    the leftover piece bound and use it as a rug in some other room.
    

    Left over carpet can be bound on all sides giving you an area rug or a
    runner depending on the size. But, you have to ask the place where you
    purchased the rug to do the binding. You should make sure they agree to
    do this free of charge before you buy the carpet.
    
    I've done this and the ended up with a long runner that covers where
    most of the traffic is. When company comes, the runner gets stored in
    the garage.  Saves the wall to wall from mud, dirt,  (kids) etc.

    My carpet is pretty plush.  It will show color variations after running
    a vaccuum cleaner over it.  Maybe the nap direction wasn't mentioned to
    me because the installers didn't consider it an option.

    >>     <<< Note 224.10 by FSDEV::CABARBANELL "Carol, DTN 297-3004" >>>
    >>                    -< Furniture arranging time... >-

    >>  Re: last reply, that's like the time my dog chewed up a bottle
    >>  of india ink ...
    
    
    Forgive me for doing this, but I can't resist...
    
    
    Was your dog's name Spot???

Does anyone have any ideas on why a tan carpet would be turning orange?  I have
about fifteen orange spots spread out in two rooms of my apartment.  The sizes
of the spots and discoloration of the spots vary.   Two areas are about eight
inches wide, while the other areas are about the size of a nickel.   Only one
of the spots are located in a high traffic area.  None of the spots are located
near a window.  I'm about 99.9% sure these spots were not caused by food or
drinks being spilt on the carpet.

I've tried many cleaners and a lot of elbow grease to get these spots out, but
they won't come out.   I'll be moving out of this apartment, so my landlord
(management company) and I are discussing who is responsible for it.  The
carpet is attached to a cement floor and besides for the orange spots appears
to be in good condition.  The carpet is about two years old and the fibers on
this carpet are very thin.

Management says this carpet is used  at another site and they've never had 
problems with it.  The other apartments in this complex have another type
of carpet.

Proving that I didn't cause these spots is key to me  getting my security
deposit back on this apartment.  Any feedback on what may be causing these
spots or ideas on how to get rid of them would be appreciated.

Thank You,

-John McCord
 KELVIN::MCCORD

    

> Management says this carpet is used  at another site and they've never had 
> problems with it.  The other apartments in this complex have another type
> of carpet.
    
    This strikes me as odd. Since the other apartments in the complex have
    a different type of carpet, I'd bet YOUR carpet has already been
    replaced at least once.
    
    What's under the carpet? Maybe orange spot generators? Maybe some type
    of metal that's rusting and leaching into the carpet? A nail in your
    concrete floor doesn't quite parse, but I imagine a rusty nail head 
    could make a nickle sized orange spot very nicely...
    
    Edd

    Since they admit to having it in other sites, don't take their word for 
    it, (they have a financial interest in misleading you).  Ask for the 
    names of the people at the other locations and check up on whether they
    have spots (and whether they have the same fabric and color).  I
    suspect it is a poor dye problem.
    

    If either you or a previous owner have/had pets it might explain the
    carpet spots. If the spots are in the middle of the rug as opposed to
    under furnature it would lend more evidence of this. Is there any smell
    if you put your nose close to the spots? Are the spots fairly circular?
    
    	I would also be curious as to what was under the rugs, especially
    in the spotted areas. Are the spots in areas the get hit by direct
    sunlight?
    
    	Of course proving that you are not responsible could be very
    difficult no matter what the cause. (even a defective rug). Can you
    prove that you never had a pet in the apartment? Or that one of you
    friends never spilled anything?
    
    	I think that one of the previous replies had good advice about
    trying to contact other apartment dwellers with similar carpeting the
    see if they had similar problems. That way you might effectively argue
    that the carpet was defective.

    We also had the same problem, however, I started seeing the spots about
    6 months before we were going to move out.  Knowing we were going to
    move, and knowing that there was no way we could have caused the spots
    (one was right by the closet door) I called maintenance to check to
    spots out.  They also couldn't remove the spots nor give any
    explaination for them, but they did mark down on our work order that we
    did not cause them.  Therefore, when we moved out we didn't have to pay
    for it.  Same color carpet too.  The one thing someone suggested was
    that maybe the carpet glue was bleeding through.  
    
    Julie

Thanks for the responses!  Unfortunately, this problem still remains unsolved.
As far as pets goes, the building does not allow pets. so we can rule that
out.  Also, one of the rooms is not exposed to sunlight at all, so I would say
sunlight would not be the cause of these spots.  Also, someone asked if this
was the original carpeting.  No, the former occupants "destroyed" the original
carpeting.   Out of the 200 units in that building, four or five units have
had this replacement carpet installed in them.  I may ask if I could look at 
these other units with this carpeting.

The last couple of days I've marked every spot on the carpet that has these
orange spots with making tape.  There are more spots then I orginally thought.
Most of these spots can not be seen when your standing up.  You physically
have to be on your hands and knees to see them.  The larger (and brighter) spots
can be more easily be seen.

Using a magnifying glass, I looked at them more closely and noticed that some
of them had yellow spots in them.  This is in addition to the orange, sort of 
like a yellow spot within the orange spot.  This reminds me of a disease that 
is just growing, sort of like rust.

Management wanted to dye the spots, I asked them if that was only a temporary
solution to the problem.  I mentioned to them that the next people who live
there will have the same problem.   They agreed to do more checking into the
problem.   People from the corporate offices were suppose to take a look at it
today - I have yet to hear from anyone about it.

I still have this apartment until the end of the month.  I would expect to
resolve this problem before then.  I'll mentioned the possible causes mention
in here.  I'll still welcome any more ideas of possible causes or solutions.

-John
    

I recently purchased a home with an inground pool.

The landscape around the pool consists of a ~3 inch layer of small
but uncomfortable stones over dirt. There are a few tiles around the
pool area as well.

Since the stones are so uncomfortable on bare feet, I'd like to remove them
and lay an indoor/outdoor carpet down.

But what do I put on top of the dirt to affix the carpeting to???

Thanks,
Paul

    
    How about something better then carpet...How about grass. It would be a
    lit better. 
    
    Mike

    The other thing that you can do is to put decking around the pool. My
    parents have an inground pool and my father used redwood decking which
    surrounds the pool. (There's a couple of inches of dead air between the
    dirt and the decking). 
    
    The cheaper alternative is to get patio blocks (typically 12"x12") and 
    spread them about.
    			Cindy

You can lay indoor/outdoor carpeting right on the ground.  Nothing affects
this stuff.  Where I go camping we have some i/o carpet that's been lying on
the ground for 15 years and if you wash it it's the same garish golden color
it was when we first put it down.  This is in northern New Hampshire about 
20 miles south of Canada.

Just to close this topic...

I recently moved out of the house with the carpet stain.  I found an
acryllic fabric paint that I used to paint the stains, and rub in with
a damp sponge.  It was a little darker and a little glossy, but using 
a strong vacuum when it was dry fluffed it all up.  And believe it or 
not it looked perfect !!

Scott

    What is the best way to remove carpet tack strips, without 
    destroying the beautiful hardwood flooring beneath?

    =Phil    

    re .9
    I use a pry bar, but instead of using the hardwood floor as the
    leverage point, I put a piece of 1/4" plywood down and pry against
    that.
    
    Dave

    
    
    Or a shingle, or..

    Thanks!  STanley makes a "baby" crow bar called the Wonder Bar.
    It worked well.

    -Phil
 

Question:

If you lay down a vinyl barrier and secure it to the concrete
with the tack-strips,  how would you then go about fixing
the padding on to the vinyl?  Using glue?  Would some type
of staple works?  What are the standard methods used?  Of
course, I'm assuming no subfloor is used in this case. Thanks.


HH

    
    I don't think you need to stick it down - the carpet will hold it in
    place when it's on the tack strips.  However, when fitting the carpet
    the padding can slide about on the vinyl as you are moving the carpet
    into position. Double-sided adhesive tape will hold it in place.
    
    regards,
    
    Colin

    
    Hi,
    
    	I know this reply is a little late, but I'd be interested in 
    where this acryllic fabric paint can be purchased, as referenced
    in the previous reply.
    
    	I have a couple stains in a fairly new carpet that I would like
    to touch up in some manner, either with the fabric paint or with a 
    dye. Any recommendations on where I can purchase such items?
    
    	B.T.W., I'm pursuing this approach because on one stain I've
    tried cleaning it so many times and worked it so hard that I think
    I've discolored (or even decolored) the spot. The carpet color is
    medium grey.
    
    Thanks,
    John M.
                

    I thought I'd take a risk and start a new note on Mail Order wall to
    wall carpeting.  I was quite surprised that there were no recent
    references to people who will install carpet that YOU purchase.
    
    I was also disappointed that in the carpeting notes, the best
    anyone could do was offer opinions on local carpet dealers.
    
    Well, I'm going mail order!  Just as an example (and I've only just
    begun looking), there was a sale on carpet at a local store. 
    Regularly $40 a sq yard, now only $29 -- includes installation and
    padding.
    
    Just for grins I called a carpet mill in Georgia and gave them the
    model # of the carpet I was interested in.  Would you belive $12.50!!!
    There was an extra .61 for shipping and padding was $2.50 so that's
    still only around $15.50 plus installation.
    
    My biggest question now is WHO!  I plan on simply going to some carpet
    stores and asking how much they charge to install MY carpet, but I'd
    rather get some pointers to installers.
    
    I'd be curious to hear other people's stories about mail order carpet
    as I'd think at these prices NOBODY would ever pay retail!
    
    -mark

Well, as you say, you haven't priced installation yet...

There's also the issue with how you handle problems which come up, such as
the delivered carpet is not the same color or type you ordered and who
handles warranty claims.

				Steve

    
    Their are folks who just install carpets for a living.  Check
    the yellow pages or just ask around.
    
    I'd find out what the store has for a return policey before I
    purchased anything.  Maybe even check the Co. out first...
    
    JD

    	I once watched a 1970's home improvement show where they installed
    	their own carpet ["new for the time" was bright red shag :-)], it
    	did not look that difficult. You lay down the tack strips, put down
    	the pad, and use a rental carpet pulling tool to stretch the carpet
    	out across the room and onto the tack strips.

    	They said it was a very easy job. 

    	I believe the tape was "Wally's Workshop", with a husband/wife team 
    	as the hosts (seems Hometime stole their format). The tapes were 
    	pretty  good, it's amazing how little diy home repair has really 
    	changed over they years (eg, finishing hardwood floors).

    	Anyway, I haven't done it myself, but it looked quite diy do-able 
    	on the tape. Perhaps the subject is cover in diy books too?

    	-Erik

We refinished a 1000 sq ft area of our house last year. (Previous owners and
their pets really damaged the area and I couldn't bear the ruby red shag 
carpeting). Anyway, I found a really nice commercial berberish rug that I 
just loved, but it was too expensive ($24-30/sqyd not installed) to cover 
1000sq ft. 

For fun, I did look into 3 mail order places (I was desperate and didn't
want to settle for less), and lo and behold, it was $10.66 - 10.99/sqyd!!!
Here was the deal:

      1.  Order over the phone
      2.  Send in check for the order (+ about $.65/sqyd shipping charge +
          $30.00 residential shipping fee). (some do take visa)
      3.  Order sent to your house upon receipt of your check. You need to
          help unload.
      4.  Arrange your own installation. We used someone our contractor
          recommended in our last house. Cost about $6/sqyd including the
          pad. We could have gotten that through the mail too, but it was
          about the same cost. Some of the retailers we went to sold to 
          commercial folks too (like ABCO in Waltham) and they had a bulletin
          board with some names.

Things to be aware of:

o It was easy to do and pretty hassle free

o In our case we ended up ordering a whole roll (I forget how much that is; 
  something like 133 sqyds). By doing that, we actually paid $9.36/sqyd which
  was great! But, a roll is huge (about 3-4 ft in diameter by 13ft wide 
  untrimmed) and they wanted someone to help unload and only the sitter is 
  home during the day. We just couldn't juggle the time that week. So, my 
  husband made a cradle with dolly wheels on it and we rented a truck to go 
  get it from the local shipping dock (about $50). They will still deliver to 
  the house though...

o The size is formidible; but the carpet installer didn't have a problem.

o You may need to redo some painting. We just did the whole area. The 
  carpeting back scratched it up in a few places as the installers were 
  unrolling  and moving it around. Save your wallpaper installing for 
  afterwards.


Bottom line: We got what we wanted. It's beautiful and we saved almost $1800.
             And, it was less expensive than buying something we DIDN'T like
             as much through retail.

Here are 2 places I called:

  1. Dalton Paradise Warehouse  (800) 338-7811

  2. Warehouse Carpets  (800) 526-2229 (ordered from here)


Now, I'm looking into buying lighting and wallpaper this way...

We have done all of our carpeting this way (come by Mark, we can talk :-)).
I wouldn't do it any other. The savings are just too good to ignore.

In fact, we just completed a room and a hallway last week.

Ordering the carpet is easy. You have two options;

	1) Call one of the mills advertising in any of the DYI magazines.
	   They will send you a large box of samples to choose from.

	2) Go to a carpet store, pick out what you like, and call them
	   for a price.

The installers are easy to find. Most installers are independent contractors 
who are hired by the carpet stores. It is unusual for the stores to have
their own. We found our first by asking at Somerville Lumber whom they 
would recommend. He moved away so we found the latest by asking one
of our neighbors. He had carpet installed recently and he gave us the
name of the installer. I don't have it here but will post it when I
get a chance.

Installation is anywhere from $3.50 to $4.50 a yard. We paid $4.

One caution, contact the installer and have him/her come out to measure
before you order the carpet. How much you need is determined by the direction
of the weave, where the seams are, etc.

We have ordered most of our furniture, carpets, wallpaper, etc. this way.
We've only had one problem with a piece of furniture which was promptly
replaced.

BTW, we have used S&S Mills and Johnsons Carpet. Most if not all are located
in Dalton GA.

							Mark

How do you do the furniture that way?

	There are a number of outfits in North Carolina, for example, that
	sell name brand furniture at a substantial savings. Even with the
	delivery costs you can supposedly save a bundle.

	I have never personally gone this route - they never seem to carry
	the brand I want, such as some of the local table manufacturers.
	Good furniture prices can be found at many ofthe factory outlet
	stores in the Gardner/Winchendon area of MA. For example, I have
	been looking at an Athol Table dining room set that costs anywhere
	frmo $1800-$2000 "on sale" at local (southern NH) stores. One of the
	places in Winchendon gave me a price of $1450, delivered.

	There are a number of notes discussing NC furniture in the
	LYCEUM::CONSUMER notesfile.

	Roy

    
    There's also a NC supplier in the employee discounts section on VTX - 
    Cherry Hill Furniture.  We bought a 6-seater dining table, chairs
    and display cabinet at about $450 cheaper than it was priced in
    local furniture stores (even with shipping costs).  It was also
    supplied 4 weeks earlier than the local stores could fill the order.
    The local stores would not deal on the price.
    
    Colin
     

    
    I just had carpet installed by Kenny Power of Power Carpet in
    Framingham.  He buys all his carpet from Georgia mills, charges you
    only the cost of the carpet (in fact, you send the check directly to
    the mill), and he picks it up and installs it for $4.00 /yd.  He comes
    to your house to measure and brings all his samples.  It really is much
    cheaper to go direct to Georgia, and Kenny did a great job installing. 
    I got really good quality carpet and the best pad for a total of $15.84
    per yd, including installation.  If you're interested, give Kenny a
    call, and tell him I sent you!  Julie
    
    		Power Carpets
    		Carpet and Linoleum
    		Sales and Installation
    		Fully Insured
    		
    		29 Fenelon Road
    		Framingham, MA  01701
    		(508)872-4447
    
    By the way, if the carpet comes in with a defect or wrong color or
    whatever, kenny takes care of returning it and getting a new shipment.

    I'm looking for the best deal on indoor/outdoor carpeting (installed)
    in the Pepperell, MA area. 

    
    Try either Merrimack Rug (Dutton Street in Lowell), or Puritan Floors
    (located right off the Lowell Connector).  Both businesses are run
    by the same family.  They have done a great deal of work on all
    my homes (and rental properties), have done excellent work at
    reasonable prices.  
    

    
    Try the carpet place in Tyngsboro... soory, I forget the name. 
    
    Directions are as follows:
    
    	Rte 3N to exit 35, take a left at the end of the ramp and 
    	follow the road through the intersection with 3A and across
    	the big green bridge. You can see the carpet place (big warehouse)
    	on the right. Great prices, great service.
    
    							- Mac 

Re: .2

National.  

		Steve

  I live in a rental condo that has a balcony with indoor-outdoor carpet over
concrete. The carpet grows moss in the summer, is mildewy, and discolored, so
I'm planning to ask the unit owner to install new carpet. This unit faces
northeast and gets very little sunlight, so the carpet is always damp. I want
a variety of I/O carpet that doesn't accumulate moisture. There is very little
foot traffic on this balcony, so that is not an issue. What style and brand of
I/O carpet do you recommend?

    Why have carpet at all?  An open balcony is really no place for carpet,
    especially if drainage is poor and the floor gets little direct sun.
    
    If you insist on having something, one of the polypropylene products
    would probably do the trick, though these usually come in "grass".
    
    				Steve

  As far as I know, these balconies have had I/O carpet since day one (20 years
ago) and were built with this in mind. I don't know what the concrete looks
like, but I suspect it is unsightly. Also, the owner's assn will probably in-
sist that the balcony have some sort of covering; I think all the others do.
  "Fake grass" is not OK either. Please keep your ideas coming; I have 3+
months to think about this.

    I just recarpeted about 3/4 of my house after buying from a mill
    wholesaler in Georgia and am very pleased with the results.
    
    Called Long's Carpet in Dalton (800-545-5664) and they sent me free
    samples. Prices were $10.99 to $14.99 / yd, depending on quality. We
    chose the best quality which our installer said would go for over $30
    retail in Mass. It was so dense, he had a little trouble with in on
    stairs and other areas where it had to be bent but took his time and
    did and excellent job of installing.
    
    After getting samples and comparing to carpets in local stores we
    decided on the style/color we wanted and then looked for an installer.
    Had some difficulty with this step and would recommend caution when you
    choose an installer. First one said he would come and measure but
    called the day before and said we lived too far away and wanted to
    charge extra for measuring. Next one I called also owned a carpet store
    and increased his quoted prices when he found out I wouldn't buy carpet
    from him. 3rd guy never showed up to measure when he was supposed to.
    Finally called R&R Rug Service in Wakefield (617-246-1593). The owner
    of the company, Bob, works with his son and has been in business for
    many years. He came to measure when he said he would, returned all my
    phone calls promptly and was very pleasant to work with. I hired R&R.
    They charged $4/yd for installation, $150 extra for taking up the old
    carpet and $125 extra for stair work. The final bill for installing 98
    yds came to $660.
    
    After R&R measured, I called Longs and ordered the carpet. Also ordered
    7/16 padding at $1.97/yard. Shipping to my house added another $127.
    Carpet was delivered 10 days after ordering.
    
    R&R was at my house the morning the carpet was to be delivered and had
    the old stuff removed just about the time the new carpet arrived,
    helped unload the truck and started installing. Installation took 1 1/2
    days. R&R even stretched a few other carpets in the house that needed
    attention for no extra charge.
    
    All in all, it was a little extra work on my part setting up all the
    details, but well worth it. We're very happy with the carpet and the
    installation.
    
    Ray                                                             

    
    I've looked through all the carpet related notes here, but
    did not find what I was looking for.
    
    We plan to re-carpet our second floor and I'd like to get
    an idea of the cost.  My questions are:
    
    - how is carpet sold? (by the yard.....sq. foot....?)
    - what is a reasonable price (probably medium quality)?
    - is the padding usually included in the price or separate?
    
    There are only two rooms and hallway/stairs that we want
    to do and I have no clue if we're looking at $400,
    $600, or $1500?
    
    Any help will be greatly appreciated.
    
    Cheryl Brown
    
    

    Carpet is sold by the square yard, some places include the installation
    and pad in the price per square yard, others do it individually.
    
    Getting a good pad is very important in extending the life of your
    carpet.  
    
    Just redid the living room 13X15 and dining room 12X16 with a resonable
    quality carpet, one of those stain master type we paid approximately
    $800.00 installed with a good pad.
    
    If you are doing bedrooms I am told you can go with a lower quality
    because bedrooms are not high traffic areas.
    
    Judie
    
    

Most places I checked out included installation and a pad in the price.

The cost for an average carpet was about $15-$20 per square yard.

Many also sold upgraded pads for about $1-$3/sq.yd.  I agree with .1, a better
pad not only extends it's life but also gives the carpet a better feel (feels
deeper or more 'cushiony').

To figure out the cost, take the square footage of the room and divide by 9
to get the square yards needed...  But be careful to include closets and 
doorways in your calculation of the square footage.

Dan

    
    We shopped all over the greater worcester,Ma. area for "a good deal"
    on doing our new home.  Picked up "GEORGIA CARPET" in Providence, R.I.
    
    They have partial rolls. Can get anything you want, if it's not in
    stock.
    
    Off of RT-146, just as you approach Prov., take the BRANCH AVE exit.
    At the light go straight across into the shooping plaza. Thier on
    the east end.
    
    Installation costs are much less also.  On ours, the installer came
    out to the house, measured it so we'd have the right amount should
    it need to be stitched, so the knap was all going in the same dir-
    ection.  Little more to it than just going and saying "I measured it
    and need 22 1/3 yds."   They do not take your word for it, nor would
    the installer take measurements from our blueprints, and there was
    no extra charge for his first visit. Aside of "refreshments."
    
    They are not pushy either.  Very helpful.
    
    Fred

    
    Thier prices begin ( did when we bought ) at $12.00 sq. yd. and go
    DOWN from there.
    
    They have excellent padding and will recommend to correct one
    for the type of traffic areas.  NO, they didn't push the highest
    cost on us. 
    
    Super folk to do business with.  
    
    Fred

    Fred, was that Georgia Mills?  If so, you don't have to go all the way
    to Providence.  They have a store on Grafton Street (near the
    intersection of 20) in Worcester.  They did a great job on a couple of
    bedrooms for me and did my in-laws' livingroom carpet.

    I bought a throw rug to go on top of my carpet and it's flopping and
    moving all over the place.  Do they make a special kind of padding for 
    rug-to-rug?  I know they make rubber stuff for hard wood floors, but 
    this would ruin my carpet if I used that.
    
    thanks,  Pam

Yes, there is such a pad.  Most carpet dealers can sell it to you by the
foot.

				Steve

    Sort of along the same line, my wife recently put down an oriental rug
    she inherited from her grandmother over the wall-to-wall we have in a
    room. The problem is that the edges are starting to curl up creating a
    tripping hazard (plus it looks terrible). Two-sided tape doesn't work
    as it doesn't stick to the base carpet. Short of nailing it down, any
    suggestions?

I'd see if the "hooky" part of Velcro would stick to the W-to-W, and if
so, affix some to the back of the Oriental on the edges.
-Jack

    I have a similar problem.  Where can you get Velcro in NH?  What is it? 
    Can this stuff be put on the corners of your rug or do you need enough for
    the entire rug.

>Where can you get Velcro in NH?  What is it? 

	Don't know what Velcro is? Sheesh - get with the '90's! 8^)

	It's the hook-and-loop fasteners used on everything from sneakers to
	coats to the space shuttle 8^). 

	You can buy it in any fabric store.

	Roy

Home Depot in Nashua has rug-on-carpet padding.  I wouldn't advise Velcro,
it could damage the carpet.

				Steve

    we have to install a carpet in a place that won't let us use the normal
    tacks...we must use the double-sided tape ....  
    
    does the tape wear well...someone said it wears out after about a
    year...any success stories...also, this is NOT a high traffic area.
    

    We used Westford Custom Floors to recarpet a family room and study last
    Fall. We selected a "weardated" nylon plush from the Patcraft mill
    collection, at Westford's recommendation....for durability in a high 
    traffic area.  The initial installation was terrific....no complaints.
    
    
    However, now only 9 months later, the carpet in the family room in front
    of the sofa is badly matted and "pilling" clumps of little yarn balls. 
    The owner of Westford came out to look at the carpet and said that this 
    was "normal wear" for the traffic conditions and was the result of 
    "perspiration from bare feet soiling the rug.....and wear from feet 
    scuffing back and forth while seated on the sofa".  Consequently, our 
    complaint with premature wear in his opinion was not due to "mill defect" 
    but is to be considered normal wear for the traffic conditions.  He
    offered to have a rep. from the carpet mill come out to look at the
    carpet, but he didn't think that they'd do anything under the wear
    warranty.
    
    Our family room gets mostly bearfoot traffic. And we routinely vacume
    with a beater-bar vacume head at least 2x a week. 
    
    Has anybody else run into a problem like this. I had expected better
    from a Monsanto weardated nylon. The five year old carpet in front
    in our main hallway and stairs from the entranceway gets alot more 
    traffic and soiling and doesn't show any wear.
    
    Any suggestions???
 

>    Our family room gets mostly bearfoot traffic.

That's your problem.  Bears have nasty toenails.

Unless it was a very inexpensive carpet, I can't believe it went bad that fast.
If it stays crushed (i.e. doesn't rebound after vacing) and pils like 
that then I'd say your due.  I'd heard good things about westford 
floors (we are thinking about buying a berber style from them) 
and I'm surprised they shrugged you off.  Definitely bring the rep
in and get the fine print from the warranty.  You should get satisfaction
if you play hardball.

    
    Does anybody have any experience with HQ or Home Depot in regard to 
    the purchase and installation of carpeting?  
    
    I have been using Home Depot for materials during a refinshing effort
    in a garden style condo and I am tempted to use them for carpeting 
    also..
    
    -thanks,
    Doug

    90  GUIDO::AITEL         26-APR-1985     1  DEAN'S CARPET
   225  WILLIE::TIMMONS      21-MAR-1986     7  Carpet Steam Cleaner, Regina
   244  OLD750::BOWKER       16-APR-1986    29  Looking for Carpet Dealers
   318  WBA::CASS            25-JUL-1986     7  Carpet Cleaning
   881  HUMOR::EPPES         23-SEP-1987     4  Carpet Cleaners in Nashua, NH area?
   912  ULTRA::PAN           15-OCT-1987     3  carpet dealer
   973  RHODES::ROBILLARD     2-DEC-1987     4  Carpets in Leominster
  1358  SAVVAH::CASS          6-DEC-1988     5  Carpet Protection
  1444  USCTR2::DRIVETTS     13-MAR-1989    14  CARPET CLEANERS
  1461  MAMIE::DDODA         30-MAR-1989     3  Carpet runner hold-downs
  1587  SERPNT::SONTAKKE     27-SEP-1989     9  Tea stains on carpet
  1700  HYSTER::MAZER        21-FEB-1990     8  Carpet Store in Nashua?
  1742  NAVCOM::ARNOLD       25-APR-1990     5  Help needed w/ bankrupt carpet dealer
  1802  DELNI::STANLEY       24-JUL-1990    16  "CHEM-DRY CARPET CLEANING????"
  2067  WONDER::BENTO        29-OCT-1991     4  Cutting down a carpet to size...
  2268  WMOIS::MARENGO       19-NOV-1992     3  CARPET RECOMMENDATIONS
  2332  ABACUS::NESTOR       10-MAY-1993     5  Masters & Steampro carpet cleaning
  2370  NODEX::BRASS         10-AUG-1993     1  Steam/non-steam carpet cleaners
  2401  SALEM::HOULE         31-JAN-1994     2  Carpeting (Manchester, NH) ??

    
    	Yes I had Home Depot do my living room and an adjacent hallway just
    before Christmas.  I'm very happy with the quality of the carpet and
    the installation.  I'm told that they have two installation crews the one
    that did mine two young guys (20's) never did get their names did an 
    excellent job.

    Joe

Most carpet stores contract with independent installers to do the work - you
can't make a generalization about the quality of the installation.

				Steve

I'll confirm Steve's comment.  My in-laws got some carpet from HD and the
installer continually put off whey they would show up.  It turned out to be a
1/2 day job when they did show up.

bjm

        RE: last couple

    	The sales-person at Home Depot (in Shrewsbury) told me that he used 
    2 crews this may or may not be true.  They showed up on the day I was 
    told they would and as in -1 it was a � day job.  I'm very happy with 
    the job they did and wouldn't hesitate buying another carpet there.  
    Your mileage may vary.

    Joe

    Hi. I looked up the Pests section in the index and also did a
    dir/keyword on beetles but turned up zilch.
    
    My husband and I own a condo which we rent. Our tenant called us last
    week to let us know that she is finding little black bugs in the
    carpet. After calling up several exterminators they all seem to think
    that the bugs are carpet beetles.
    
    The reason for this note is to find out if anyone had a problem with
    such bug in the past. Some of the exterminators say that we need
    multiple applications (they come back every 4 months or so) since the
    lifecycle of these bugs can be anywhere from 3 months to 2 years.
    I get different lifecycle numbers from different exterminators (I
    wonder why...  -)  ).
    
    So I need to find out if 1) yes, one application won't do it (which 
    is what some exterminators tell me but others say one is enough and 
    2) who's really not telling the truth.
    
    Also, the condo is in Leominster, Ma. I've contacted ADA Pest Control
    Services, Bain Pest Control, Colonial Pest Control, Griggs & Browne
    Co., and Orkin. If you have anything to say about these companies
    (send all bad remarks to LJSRV2::SCHLENER), I would appreciate it.
    
    Thanks.
    			Cindy       

    What are carpet beetles?  What do they look like?  How do you get
    them?  Is this condo on a slab or is there a basement?
    
    I would think this is something the Condo Association should 
    (at the very least) be aware of or possibly take care of?  My 
    suggestion is to call the Condo Association and ask them who they
    would recommend for extermination and also ask them if there are
    others who have had the same problem.  
    
    Good luck,
    
    Judie
    
    

    Our tenant in on the first floor. There are semi-basement units below
    her. 
    Carpet beetles are small, round black bugs (somewhat hard and shiny)
    which eat natural fibers. They tend to live in rugs but if they get
    into the closet they will get into clothes (like silk and wool) and
    eat holes in them.
    
    From what it sounds like, the carpet beetles might have been brought
    into her apartment by someone (sort of like fleas) or by bringing in 
    a piece of furniture that had these beetles in them. 
    
    We don't have much time to find someone since she did find a couple in
    her bed so we don't want her to get too grossed out (I would flip if
    I found something like that!) and leave our place. Good tenants are 
    really difficult to find (and alot of you have had to deal with the
    opposite).
    		Cindy

    We've used Bain Pest Control for carpenter ants, and they've been
    quick, professional and reasonably priced (not to mention effective.)

    I'll ditto good experience with Bain.

    We had carpet beetles in our house in Haverhill. We had one
    exterminator come over and 'do a treatment' but it didn't last. We then
    called in Bain and it worked like a charm. One application from them.
    Apparently carpet beetles can live for a long time on very,very little
    (i.e. a human hair may keep them fed for a year).
    
    We also ended up getting rid of the carpet pad that the previous owners
    had left. 
    
    Good luck, they're a pain in the butt. 

    Ah, yes, carpet beetles. The description a few replies ago describes
    them in general terms. Some are black, hence black cb, and others
    appear mottled or variegated, a fancy term for black and white. This is
    when they are adults. They are about 1/16 to 1/8th inch long. As 
    larvae, they appear as short (still less than 1/4 inch) black caterpillar
    type things typically seen climbing a wall (easier to see on light
    walls) or a towel in the bath.
    
    They can be brought in to the house by furniture, clothing, or by wind.
    They like natural fibers, but almost any fiber will do if they are
    desparate. A spray called Larvex can be used *carefully* to treat a
    closet space, but typical bug sprays around outer walls where there are 
    carpets, or nice warm sunny spots that are illuminated by summer sun.
    We were once treated with diazinon, altho there are likely less harmful
    chemicals in use now. Several treatments are advisable, as mentioned
    earlier. But heed the advice that follows.
    
    To rid them from your home:
    Clean windows and the wooden lattice very well with an antiseptic
    cleaner. The windows that receive morning or later afternoon sun are
    preferred egg laying places, as are your clothing drawers where it is
    dark and warm. Also clean those drawers; you might even see little
    teeny larvae crawling in the corners of the drawers. Which drawers? The
    ones from which you've taken your clothes that have moth holes. But now
    you know those aren't moths eating your shirts.  They also seem to like
    seams of shirts. I digress.
    
    Cleanliness is paramount in ridding these bugs. Wash all, repeat all,
    your clothes in hot water. Indeed, lack of cleanliness is the main
    source of these bugs. And wash the drawers they were kept in too. I
    used concentrated Lysol.
    
    In my opinion, these bugs are not indigenous to homes in general, but
    they will show up if the homeowner is slobby. Contact the local county
    extension, perhaps the UMass agricultural school can find them for you.
    The USDA has produced a pamphlet with lots more info than I can recall
    here from memory (over 12 years ago), but the cleaning work was
    sufficient to help me remember the extent these guys can penetrate. If
    there are enough of them to bother you, you have an infestation. Unlike
    carpenter ants, these should not cause structural problems at all, and
    proper home maintenance would not keep them out. Homeowner (or tenant)
    cleanliness and proper storage would likely keep them out, away, or in
    sufficiently low numbers that they would not be noticed.
    
    Get some neutral person advice about causes, effects, and treatment.
    Ofcourse, an exterminator knows what to do (they may not tell you about
    cleaning up after yourself, because that'll help keep the bugs there
    and more treatment $$ for him). Also, the US Gummint publication will
    tell your tenant to keep clean; it would not be appreciated if you told
    him. Again, call the county extension and ask for an entymologist --
    the bug expert on staff. For my part, I;ll dig around to see if I still
    have the pamphlet in my handyman's bin.
    
    Good luck -- it takes several months of persistent work, diligence, and
    neatnik attitude. 

    I believe our tenant keeps the condo in really good shape - she
    shampoos the rugs every few months (I wish I had that ambition...).
    
    She only starting seeing them a couple of weeks ago (she's lived there
    for 1.5 years). I'm hoping that this extermination will do it for her.
    If they come back we may need to deal with the condo association and
    see about a condo-wide plan (if necessary).
    
    Thanks for the recommendation for Bain and detailing all the places
    that need special cleaning. I'll let my tenant know about that.
    			Cindy

    
    We just had Baine do our house.  I agree about their responsiveness.
    After calling several places, they were the most responsive and came
    out a couple of days after we called to check things out.
    
    Our spraying was for preventive maintenance.  We have a new house, last
    year we had alot of bugs, ants, bees, etc. that you usually see after
    new construction.  We have cedar siding, so we decided this year to
    start the yearly spraying to prevent these creatures from coming back.
    
    Baine gives you a 60 day warranty and if you continue to use them, your
    next spraying is discounted.
    
    I'd vote for them
    
    Mary
    

    We just had a commercial grade (office type) flat/tight weave carpet
    installed in our finished basement. It was installed over new jute
    padding, using perimeter tacking strips.
    
    The problem is that the seams are very noticable. The used this special
    hot-melt glue tape to seam 12' sections together. Looking straight down
    you can see a seam line...... but whats more noticable is that looking
    at the seam  from a side angle 6-8' away, you can see a very visible
    depression and waviness to the seam.
    
    The carpet installer claims this is "normal" with commercial carpets.
    That you can only expect perfectly invisible seams with plush carpets
    cause there denseness hides imperfections.
    
    This sounds like BS to me. I can look at the carpets here at MSO1 and
    AKO1 where Ive worked and the carpets are even flatter than our
    commercial carpet, yet I see no seams.
    
    Does this kind of carpet take more of skilled installer than plush
    carpets?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Jonathan

Actually, it sounds honest to me.  Just look at any commercial carpet in
a store or office building.

				Steve

    NORMAL, no way.  We had commercial carpet installed in our hallway,
    a colonial style with a central hall/stairway and it is perfect.  I
    cannot see the seams, and I know where they are.  We decided on
    commercial carpet since we knew this area would get high traffic and
    we have no plans on replacing it for a very long time.  The
    installation was over jute with edge strips and it looks just as good
    today as it did three years ago when it was installed.  I would say
    that the installer just didn't do a good job.
    
    	Ken

    I bought commercial grade carpeting to put over concrete as well.  Only
    difference is that I bought felt padding.  I originally attempted to
    install it myself with an attitude of "Hey, it's only carpet.  Anyone
    can butt two ends together and get a good seam.".  After 4 or 5
    attempts, I gave up.  It was impossible.  And since I had bought the
    carpet only, I then had to search out possible installers.  I talked to
    5 or 6 different installers (all installers are nearly booked solid)
    and they all told me the same thing...commercial carpet is the hardest
    to get good seams on, and to expect to see the seam.  And yes, I can
    see the seam.  It's not a terrible seam, but I can see it and pick it
    out.  Lighting has a lot to do with how visible it is.
    
    Digital carpeting is cemented to the concrete, as is most true
    commercial applications.  That may make a difference, although, I can
    see many seams in the carpeting at the ZKO facility.
    

    	This is a little late, but perhaps it may help someone with some
    future plans/ideas. We have a room in which the widest point is 13.5'.
    This point is right in front of a slider.
    
    	We put ceramic tile right in front of the slider that extends out
    1.5'. It looks really nice, creates a more durable flooring for the
    entry/exit, and makes the widest point 12' so no seams are needed.
    
    	Ray

	    A good installer can pretty well hide the seams.  I helped one
	install commercial carpet in a very large room.  You could see one
	of the three seams, but just barely.

					Tim

    
    
    You could always try working some boric acid powder into the carpets. 
    This is a common treatment for flea eradication, but the same mechanism
    should work on your beetles.  Boric acid is commonly sold as "roach"
    powder, and sells for about $4/pound in hardware stores.
    
    

    
    
    I am looking for any suggestions for a basement project I am working
    on. I plan to put a tile floor over the concrete floor in one area of
    the basement. Do I have to "seal" the floor first? Or should I just
    give it a good cleaning before I install the tiles? The tiles I
    ordered are the "peel and stick" type that don't require any additional
    glue. Any comments from folks who have done this before would be much
    appreciated.
    
    Jamie

    You probably don't want to hear this, but I was explicitly told not to
    use peel&stick on a basement floor, as they were allegedly more likely
    to come loose due to moisture in the floor.  Instead, I was told to
    use plain vinyl tile and icky black goo to glue it down.  It turned out
    to be quite easy once I learned to avoid making an icky black mess...
    
    		George

    I'm renting a place that has wall to wall carpeting and it smells
    of cigarette smoke from the previous tenants.  It's especially 
    noticable on these hot humid days.  The carpet has been professinally
    cleaned already.  Is there anything to take the cigarette smell out 
    of the carpet ?  It gives the whole place that "cheap motel" stink....
    
    
    	thanks 
    

    Did you have it professionally steam-cleaned?  Old smoke is a tough
    smell to get rid of - and it really stinks on humid days, PHEW!
    
    /Charlotte

I hate to tell you this, but the solution that worked best for me was to
replace the carpeting and repaint the walls and ceiling.

The owners of that particular house were such intense smokers that the walls
were yellow from the nicotine stains, and the ceilings were black with the
smoke stains.

	Firefighter use ammonia, a large opend container in a room or 
	vehicle that is shut up tight, to remove smoke smell.

	SteveT.

    Try spreading baking soda over the whole rug and letting it
    sit for overnight.  Vacuum up the next day.

Try one of the aeresol car deodorizers from an auto parts place. I bought
some stuff which is marketed for used car dealers called "Ozium", if I
recall properly, which deodorizes just about anything.

	Thanks for the suggestions.  I am trying the baking soda 
	approach, but so far, there's no noticable difference. 

	Thankfully, the place is not as bad as what .2 mentioned... 

    
    I've read that most of those "air freshener" products do not attempt to
    neutralize the cause of the odor. They contain chemicals that deaden
    the sense of smell.
    
    JP
    

    Enzyme cleaner? The kind for neutralizing pet odors?
    You can clean a carpet with diluted ammonia (referencing previous
    response about ammonia being used).  I've also been told by a
    firefighter friend that a container of ammonia is used to absorb smoke
    odors after a house fire.  Try calling a professional cleaner (like the
    kind we have working in our buildings) and see what they recommend.
    Sarah

    I've got a substantial amount of glued carpet over concrete that needs to 
    be removed.  There's approx. 800'sq in 4 rooms downstairs.  It's totally 
    dry.  Approx. 1/2 of the area is a foam-backed short-napped carpet and the
    rest is traditional indoor medium-napped sculptured (jute-backed), which 
    appears to be glued with the same type of mastic as used for vinyl flooring.
    We'll be replacing it with a combination of ceramic tile & berber carpet.
    
    We knew when we recently bought the house that the carpet would be a
    tedious chore, to be done over this winter.  However, having an intense
    work/travel schedule and being an impatient person, I'm looking for the 
    most expedient way to remove all of this - like over a single weekend.  
    If solvent is the way, I'll start it now, while I can still shut off the 
    boiler & open the windows.
    
    I've heard of heat/scrape (buy a heat gun), or solvent/scrape.  Any
    suggestions???
    
    Thanks in advance!

	Call the rental places and ask about a floor scraper.

	I once saw one of these for sale in a used-tool place.  
Heavy 2 wheeled machine, with a blunt nose in front, that held a 
12" wide heavy steel blade.  In operation the blade would oscillate
side-to-side and front-to-back, scraping almost anything off of anything
else.  I think it was intended for removing linoleum and such from
floors.  Be sure to mention that you're scraping off concrete - it might
make a difference in the type of blade (or just what it costs you...)

    Dave:
    
    I called a couple of places, described the beast, and they didn't laugh!  
    Tonight I'm going to check one out at Grove Rental in Bedford.  $28/day.  
    Sounds like the way to go.
    
    Thanks for the great suggestion!  VAXnotes strikes again!
    
    Bill

    My carpet is developing "waves".  I can think of some possibilities:
    
    - the carpet was not installed properly
    - the rug is faulty
    - the house has "shrunk" (ok, dried out) - the carpet was
      installed in a new house
    
    Oh yea, the seams that were supposed to "disappear" after use are now
    more noticeable than ever.  I'm wondering if the lack of tension on the
    rug is causing this.
    
    It's been on the floor for exactly three years.
    
    I'd love to consult with an independent carpet installer if I could
    find one I could trust.
    
    Chris

    The carpet was probably not stretched correctly when initially
    installed.  All carpets will stretch as they age.  The "waves" you see
    are from this stretching.  Any installer with a stretcher may be able
    to fix that for you.  As far as the seams go, thats a bit more tricky.
    Seams are the most difficult part of installation.  I have installed a
    number of carpets over the years (yes, with the proper tools!) and have
    yet to completely master seaming.  The seams may not be repairable. 
    Contact some installers in your area and ask for estimates on the
    "repair".  This may give you some idea of the state of the carpet
    itself.
    
    Note: Poor quality padding may have contributed to this failure as
    well.  Padding is at least as important, if not more so, than the
    carpet itself.  High quality carpet with cheap padding will have a
    short lifetime.  Lower quality carpet with good padding will hold up
    for a long time.
    
    Dan

I'll second the poor installation opinion.

bjm

    With no pushback, the carpet dealer agreed to re-stretch the carpet at
    no charge.  As usual though, the largest "expense" is the aggravation.
    
    Interestingly enough, he mentioned that "new" techniques recently
    incorporated into the installation has significantly reduced "call
    backs" (his words...does he really mean "complaints"?!).  When I asked
    what that was, he said they now wet the backs of carpets like mine so
    it has a tendency to shrink.  I had also heard that from another
    source, who said that it's standard practice and should have been done
    on my rug three years ago.
    
    Chris
                              

    RE: .-1
    
    I'm sorry to report that what you were told about the "water
    treatment" is rubbish.  I spoke with an installer who's been in the
    business for 23+ years.  He laughed at this one!!  The problem
    initially described was due to the carpet stretching from use.  Causing
    the carpet to shrink initially will only make the problem worse.
    
    Dan

and to add to .340...

The last two times we have had carpets installed, the comments from the 
installers were that soaking the back of the carpet is an example of someone 
too lazy to use the stretcher properly.  The first installation lasted almost 
20 years with no problems.  The second installation has only been a year; no 
problems, but statistically insignificant.

Dave

    
    Carpet underlayment question.  I recently saw in some Homosote
    literature where one of its applications is as carpet underlayment.
    
    Anyone ever use it in that application? My other choses are:
    	. 1/2" plywood
    	. particle board
    
    The reason I'm even considering it is for improving sound deadening 
    on our 2nd floor. The carpet with have a reasonably good pad so I'd 
    expect that loads would be distrbuted and the material wouldn't be
    dented too much (although I could see where furniture, esp. beds 
    could put a high load in a small area that might compress it -- maybe
    not.)  Another option is to put 1/4" luan over the homosote, but
    that drives the cost up significantly since in addition to adding
    the 1/4" everywhere there is carpet, I'd have to install it where 
    other flooring materials abut the carpet to keep the levels the 
    same.
    
    Any thoughts appreciated.
    Bud