Conference mr1pst::music

	Called the record store in the mall here in Colorado that
	had originally given me a relase date of November 5th, 1991
	for "DANGEROUS" and was told the new release date is November 19th,
	1991.  Michael's video "Black or White" is to be shown on Fox
	November 14th, 1991 and even MTV is advertising Dangerous as coming
	November 14th, 1991.  I have heard from several places that Michael
	and his brothers (mayabe Janet too??) are planning a tour.  And
	have you heard about Jermaine's song that is supposedly about Michael?
	Jermaine denies that it is, and changed the lyrics for the cut on his
	album...

		*D*  
 


    
   
    
   
     
   
   
 
   
 
  

    
   
    
   

    

    Well guys,I got the "Black or White" maxi-CD and opinion at first sight
    is that it is a rip-off for the $8,- it costs.Whats onit:
    
    Just the BorW single version from the(forthcoming)album which is a mere
    3.22mins long and a instrumental version of it 3.22mins.Here to make it
    a rip-off,the added cut on it is from the Bad album called "Smooth
    criminal"LP version.The least they could've have done was make a
    special dance version of this let's say a Shep Pettibone or Teddy Riley
    mix.3.22mins Tah! Of the 4.7" disc just 25% is used.
    
    I also got the card for the competition and you have to finish a slogan
    with the maximum of 20 words(help me please?)
    It starts out(in dutch of course) x-lated like this:
    
    TO ME MICHEAL JACKSON IS A SUPERSTAR
    BECAUSE...............................................................
    
    
    hopes up for the album or special 12" remixes from it later.
    
    Jan.

    Why did you buy the Maxi-single if it was such a rip off? I assume you
    read the track listing . Also Mr. Jackson is well known for not giving
    the best of value with 12" and maxi-singles.More than once he/the
    Jacksons have release 12"singles that were identical to the 7" versions
    except for an instrumental or something equally insignificant.
     Anyway what is the song like? 
    
    $8 isn't too bad . Here in Ireland most maxi-singles cost �6-8 with
    12"'s costing �5.
    
                    Niall
    
                     

>    TO ME MICHEAL JACKSON IS A SUPERSTAR
>    BECAUSE...............................................................
    
    ... Liberace's gone now.

             
   
	Is there a prize for this competiton??  When is this slogan

	due in by??

		*D*

    
    The release date for "Dangerous" in Europe is the 21. November 1991 and
    the video "Black or White" is showing on MTV at the 14. November 1991.
    Can't wait.
    
    Guenti

    Guys, :)
    
    RE.3
    
    Niall,the acquiring of the CD-single was needed for my radio show.My
    own opinion is that it is a ripp-off product.RE:the costs,yeah,damn ex-
    pensive....they will! drop in due course of 1992.
    
    RE.4 HA! good one,I gottcha,but I don't think Sony/CBS will award me a
    prize onit :)
    
    .5 1st prize:15X Sony discmans
       2nd   "  :15X Sony walkmans
       3rd(in case of getting stuck with them ;)) 100X the luxury golden CD
           "limited"(??) Dangerous album.
    and closing date is the 23rd of november of this competition.
    
    Anymore ideas for me for the slogan?
    
    Jan.

    As far as I know the 12" vynil version is the best value as there are a
    total of four (I read in NME) tracks on it . Two of which being the
    instrumental of the single and "Thriller" l.p. version .(which I'm sure
    "nobody" has).Smooth Criminal is ONLY on the CD version and since only
    20 million odd people already have that there's not much point in
    buying the single at all . Everybody ,just wait for the L.P. and see
    what thats like (not that I care) . 
     The latest news on the L.P. release is that it's stalled again .
    Theres even talk of a post-christmas release. Personally I doubt this
    as Mr. Jackson would never miss out on the Christmas Market.
    
                         Niall
    
    
                

According to what I heard on the commercial for the "Black or White" video
on MTV, it's going to be "all digitized audio sound" does this mean
that "Dangerous" is going to come out on CD and not a vinyl album??
And will I be able to enter this contest when I buy the "Dangerous" album/CD
or is this only available when the "Black or White" single is bought??
According to the TV Guide (the one you buy in the store) MTV is showing
"Black or White" back to back (whatever THAT means) starting at 6:40pm
on Thursday November 14,1991 AND Fox is showing "Black or White" right 
after The Simpsons at 7:25pm on Thursday November 14, 1991.  MTV is 
showing Jackson Videos - Michael's according to TV Guide  -
from 6:55- 8:00pm  Thursday November 14, 1991 right after their showing
of "Black or White"...

		*D*	
	

    Re-1
    
    The album will be available on vinyl and CD(of course)
    What I have gathered on info regarding sound improvement is that
    Micheal was under the impression of this Q-sound theory,and that 
    he used it for"Dangerous".Yeah,the latest sound quality for the video
    is that it is digitized.Unfortunatly the MTV I can receive has mono.
    
    The contest is for the dutch(Netherlands)public only and is setup by
    Sony/CBS Netherlands.
    Back to back showing of the BorW vid. means that it will be fully
    shown from start to end.Yup,on the 14th.
    
    Jan(Tony Bird)

    He�� the topic header is changed!?
    
    I got a line for the competition to wank the Sony jury with,your
    opinion please? ;)
    
    (I find Micheal Jackson to be a superstar because)....my brand Sony 
    say's he is...
    
    BTW:tomorrow eve at 6pm the 10min video will be broadcasted on national
        TV in the Netherlands.
    
    Jan.
    

    I think it was I who changed the topic header.
    
    I don't remember what it used to be, but because topic headers are 
    frequently the targets of search command, it's important for them
    to have a regular form such that anyone with a little experience
    in the file can predict what the header for a particular artist
    will be.
    
    For example, if I was looking for the Springsteen topic, I might
    do a DIR/TITLE=SPRINGSTEEN.
    
    If someone decided that the Springsteen topic would be "The Boss" - I
    wouldn't find it.
    
    Therefore, I'm in the habit of changing titles for artists/bands to
    be the most obvious title and nothing more: typically the name of
    the artist or the band.
    
    It should be stated however that THE way to search for notes is to use
    keywords.  It's MUCH faster than DIR/TITLE.  There's a note in topic #1
    that describes how to use keywords in MUSIC and I've observed that
    Brian has been extremely diligent in maintaining the keyword database
    (much more diligent than I used to be).
    
    	Dave Blickstein
    	Asst. MUSIC Moderator

    Well,as of now you probably have seen the video BorW as I have.
    I was/am impressed until the moment the black panther changed into
    wacko(MJ)from then on it was pure boring when he started to flap
    around trying to prove that he still can dance(the same choreo-
    gimmicks)and started to act as a hooligan.Nope erase that part..but!
    The clip(the music part)is great,the visual images were done perfectly.
    The facial change at the end starting with a japanese person was excep-
    tional,I remember the 10cc clip from which wacko used the idea.
    
    But the song itself is not impressive.Megastarism which still hangs
    around MJ as an aura gives this song the support needed for sale
    figures.It also needed trendy guitaring(Slash?GnR)to be sure of some
    sales.If someone else did this cut,lets say The Roling Stones it
    would've been used as a album filler.But then,"Satisfaction"was meant as
    an album filler too in the early days. :^) 
    
    Lets hope"Dangerous" has a real surprise for us when BorW is gone....
    
    Jan.
     

    Actually, since everyone is owning up to changing the title, I might as
    well tell you that it was actually me who did it. The first reason was
    that the name was spelled wrong and secondly the reason was I prefer
    lower case, rather unobtrusive titles that do not contain information
    that will become "dated". For instance, a year from now "Dangerous"
    will be old news and therefore not a substantive part of the note
    title.
    
    Regards,
    Brian
    MUSIC Mod

    RE-1 Brian,a pad on the back my friend for your effort explaining ;))
    
    Some info,wacko has forbidden everybody around the world to show the
    last part of the BorW clip,this was said last friday by S/CBS USA.
    
    Jan. 

  
I heard, and it does sound like something Michael would do, that he knew that
the last 4 minutes of his video would raise big uproar - this is what he
supposedly wanted and the version of "Black or White" with the offending solo
dance sequence cut out was ready to show as soon as the original video was.

This was supposedly done to generate publicity - especially with his album
being released on  11/26/91.  I would guess that since his newly signed
contract with Sony gave him less money up front but a 50% cut of the profits
after a certain plateau, he wanted to be sure it - the album and single Black
or Whtie - sold real well.  Just my opinion...

Be sure and catch Michael on the MTV 10th anniversay special (here in the
states on ABC Wednesday 11/27/91...

		*D*

  
    
    
   

    On "Hard Copy" (or one of those tabloid TV shows - it was on at my
    parents' house!  Honest!) they did a spoof on the Jacksons, to the tune
    of the theme of The Addams Family.
    
    K.C.

On Arsinio Hall - They figured out that the car used in the last 4 minute
sequence must have been Jermains Car (to get even for the slam in his recording).

								*D*

    Question:
    
    If "it doesn't matter if you're black or white", why is Michael Jackson
    trying, with his skin-bleaching and all, so hard to be white?
    
    Enquiring minds want to know.
    
    Question:
    
    Is there anything "Bad" or "Dangerous" about Michael Jackson?
    
    (I saw the covers of "Bad" and "Off The Wall" next to each other in a 
    music store the other day; a whiter shade of pale, is all I got to say.)
    
    -roger
    

    
       I have a like/dislike thing when it comes to Michael 
    Jackson.
    
       The like?  Very easy.  Memories of the early days when 
    he was singing with his brothers as The Jackson 5.  Songs 
    like 'ABC', 'The Love You Save', and 'I Want You Back' had
    my then very-young feet movin' to the beat.  It wasn't very
    hard to admire his singing and showmanship, clearly evident
    at age 12.  Later, Jermaine left the group and the Jackson 
    5 left Motown and became The Jacksons(on Epic Records).  And 
    the great music continued.  Keeping right in step with the 
    black music of the day(funk, disco), The Jacksons' success
    continued with songs like 'Enjoy Yourself', 'Shake Your Body
    (Down To The Ground)', and 'Blame It On The Boogie.'
    
       Enter 1980 and "Off The Wall."  It is a phenominal album
    in its own right, but is grossly overlooked in comparison to
    "Thriller" and "Bad."  Seemed like every one of those songs 
    was on the radio and for him to just match the success of 
    "Off The Wall" would have been asking a lot.  I didn't think
    it was possible.  All doubts were erased with "Thriller."  
    The album sales, the ensuing 'Victory' mega-tour with his 
    brothers the following year, the 7 top-ten singles, forever 
    insured his place as a cultural icon; the likes of which hadn't 
    been seen since Elvis & The Beatles.     
    
       But something went wrong after the phenominal success
    of "Thriller", hence the dislike.  Not just with his music, 
    which became, IMO, very formulated and predictable, but with 
    him.  It's almost as if he felt that somehow, he wasn't 
    completely acceptable.  That being one of the greatest 
    entertainers the world has ever known wasn't enough.  That 
    he needed one more thing to achieve true success:  to become 
    white.  If you look at him on the album cover of "Off The Wall" 
    and at him in the 'Black Or White' video, it's hard to believe 
    it's the same person.  The pale skin, thinner nose and lips, 
    chemically altered hair.  In fact, he looks more like Diana Ross 
    than he does Michael Jackson.  IMO, he would have been better 
    off by being himself; that kid from Gary, Indiana with the big 
    Afro and funny looking nose.
    
       I like the Michael Jackson of yesteryear.  The Michael 
    Jackson of "Off The Wall."  The Michael Jackson and his
    brothers on albums like "Triumph" and "Destiny."  And I 
    still like the "Thriller" album.  I like The Jacksons of
    "2300 Jackson St." and little sister Janet's 2 albums.
    This Michael Jackson, of "Bad" and now "Dangerous";  well,
    simply and politely put, no thank you.  
    
    						 glen j.

    He should put more time into the MUSIC, and less time on the IMAGE.
    
    I have only "Off The Wall", "Thriller" and the single "Ben" (and a
    couple of Jackson 5 singles - but I'm treating The Jackson 5/Jacksons
    as a completely different entity than Michael Jackson).  I purposely
    didn't buy BAD because I wanted the fuss to die down (and I STILL
    intend on getting it...eventually...maybe...), but I think I just may 
    pass on "Dangerous".
    
    I actually like OTW more than Thriller...and I LOVE the song "Ben" (the
    best durned ode to a rat ever!).  None of the songs from BAD really
    caught my attention...Smooth Criminal had a "good beat" but was a bit
    repetitive.  I will always hear "Fat" in "Bad" (due to Wierd Al).  I
    don't even REMEMBER what-all else came from it.
    
    K.C.

    According to  a few tid-bits I happen to have overheard in the record
    business world the Wacko-Jacko BorW followup will hit soon.
    Atleast the one in the Netherlands will be(of course)from the album
    "Dangerous"called "Jam".
    
    Jan.(surprisingly liking the just released album of Jermaine Jackson
         :^))

          
	  Well, I have to admit it.  DANGEROUS is not as good as I had
	  expected it to be.  Does anybody else find that the cuts that
	  Michael did himself - with no one else producing,writing,composing-
	  were better than the ones that other people either helped write,
	  produce, or compose or something??  Maybe I'm comparing OFF THE
	  WALL, THRILLER and BAD to Michael's latest work - and I don't
	  think he'll be able to top THRILLER.  I know that Sony would
	  certainly like him to.  I do like certain tracks and the more
	  I listen to the CD the more the other songs "grow" on me.
 
	  It is my opinion that Michael could have done better -

		*D*

	Well, I just saw the MTV 10th Anniversary Special on ABC that had
	Michael on it and he performed BLACK OR WHITE - danced up a storm 
	in my opinion, the way I remember Michael dancing - and he also
	did WILL YOU BE THERE - this is one song that I did like on the
	DANGEROUS album and seeing him perform it just made my evening.
	It sounds to me like he is apologizing for something - maybe 
	his having offended some viewers/fans with his BLACK OR WHITE
	video??  Like I said earlier, the more I listen to the CD,
	the more I start to like the songs.  Maybe it's just Michael
	trying something different with his style...

		*D*           
 
	  

	

    I like the fact that he's trying some thing  a *little* different with
    this L.P. . But in all fairness it's all a little flat or a little
    sugary . It just that it all seems so contrived. There's no real energy
    or feeling in this . Technically of cour sethere's nothing wrong with
    it .The songs aren' great that's all . Not nrealy as good as Thriller
    and even worse that Bad (if thats possible)
    
                     Niall

    Well, based on hearing the one song, "Black or White" which I really
    liked, I went out and bought the CD.
    
    I have to agree with what people have been saying: it's a weak album
    compared to the last two or three.  The first bunch of songs are more
    "rap" than not and don't appeal to me at all.  
    
    > Does anybody else find that the cuts that   Michael did himself - with
    > no one else producing,writing,composing-   were better than the ones
    > that other people either helped write,   produce, or compose or
    > something??  
    
    Yes - I noticed that very same thing myself.
    
    And yet, we both know there will always be people who would never 
    consider the possibility that maybe there IS talent behind all the
    hoopla around the man.  That would cut way to deep into deeply held
    beliefs about pop music.
    
    BTW, one of the reasons I was anxious to get this album is that it is
    one of the first albums to use a new field of technology that allows
    you to place sound into 3-D space using only conventional stereo
    playback systems.
    
    You hear it in several places on the album (the breaking glass on the
    first cut for example) and IMHO, it is a fairly dramatic effect.
    
    A couple of times, things REALLY did sound like they were coming from
    various places in the room instead of the speakers.
    
    	db

    "Heal the World" has to be the most puke-inducing lump of sugar I've
    ever heard.
    
         Niall
    

    Just for the info: The album"Dangerous" is peaking at the number one
    spot for it's second week in the album sales list in the Netherlands.
    Though U2's "Achtung baby" has landed on the number 2 spot coming from
    9 last week.
    
    Acht�ng baby[watchout baby]
    
    Jan.

    re .21
    
    I'm glad I'm not the only person who feels that way about "Off The
    Wall" - I still think it was a better album than "Thriller".
    
    I noticed that "Dangerous" is produced in large part by Teddy Riley.
    Two years ago, his influence would have been a HUGE help to MJ. But
    Mike's tendancy to wait 3-5 years to release an album is working
    against him in a big way. He is way out of touch with what people want
    to hear and dance to. And Riley isn't going to be the complete answer.
    
    Dr Midnight

    RE-1  :) hear hear I fully agree with your opinion.
             
    Jan.

    
    There is one song in the "dangerous" album which begins with a segment
    from Beethoven symphony #9. Which one is it ?
    
    Steve

    To good to mention.
    David Cole and Robert Clivilles(C&C of that music factory)have produced
    a more dancable re-mix of MJ's Black&white....and I like it.
    Atleast the repetitive guitar is gone.
    
    Jan.

    

   Any news of the next video - when it's to be shown and the name, also

   anybody know what the next single will be and if it will be a different

   version than the one on the album (if the song is from DANGEROUS) 

		*D*

     
     In the current issue of Rolling Stone magazine (with Michael on the
     
     cover) they state that in mid 1992 Michael will tour to plug

     DANGEROUS.

		*D*

    
    I hope Wierd Al parodies this thing BRUTALLY!
    
    "Ever since I got my face fixed, you can't tell if I am black or
    white!"
    
    -Ed
    

    The latest issue of Sound News (an industry paper) stated that the cost
    of producing 'Dangerous' was... $10,000,000.
    
    How much is that an hour ?
    
    karl

    Re: 37.37
    
    >The latest issue of Sound News (an industry paper) stated that the cost
    >of producing 'Dangerous' was... $10,000,000.
    
    >How much is that an hour ?
    
    Too much!
    
    K.C.

    RE-1 + 2
    
    Yup to much,overall feel about this album in Europe is,the music onit
    (compared to today's music development)is about two years behind.
    
    The album has had it's hights already.
    
    Jan.

	
	I heard that the cost of the Black or White video was around

	4 million dollars - the morphing of the faces and of Michael

	transforming from a panther to Michael then back into a panther

	was supposedly the most expensive portion. Also want to mention

	that Genisus' new video I Can't Dance has Phil Collins doing

	some spoof of Michael's panther dance at the end of it.  Also,

	on the channel E! Entertainment News, Michael might have some

	problems with his plans to perform in Pakistan in April this year -

	seems the religious leaders don't feel Michael's show 

	would be a good thing for the people of Pakistan to see...

		*D*

    
    	Did you know that *Ropin the Wind* is back on top!  MJ is still
    hangin in there at second spot.
    
    B.A.
    

   
   A correction to my previous reply - on E! Entertainment News and CNN
   Showbiz This Week both stated that Michael never planned on performing
   in Pakistan and that the story saying he was planning to perform there
   was "bogus".

   Also, on E! (a cable channel dealing with entertainment news) Michael's
   video is supposed to be "Remember The Time" and this time John Landis
   is not doing this video - the man who did "Boyz In The Hood" is...

   And, yes "Dangerous" is number 2 (after being number 5 last week
   due to Nirvana's new release) and "Black or White" is STILL number
   l on Billboard!!!!!!!!

   The video for "Black or White is number 1 on MTV and VH1.  It is in
   its third or fourth week at number 1 on MTV and last night just made
   number 1 on VH1.

		*D*
    

         

	I forgot to add to my previous note that the new video for
	"Remember The Time" is to be shown on Fox, MTV, and BET on
	February 2, 1992.  Michael is also supposedly working on a behind
	the scenes look at the making of Black or White.  Check out
	the TV Guide for ads for both...

	*D*
    

    Hi all,
    
    Is it so that today Wacko is to give a press conference in which he is
    going to reveal his data on his world tour? Within a half an hour from
    now.(see above time)
    
    A coke company is sponsoring it and is going to give away 10 mil copies
    of the Dangerous album.Sales go bad huh? ;)
    
    Lets read what you know?
    thx
    Jan.

    The wierd one will be showing up on FOX again soon, in an
    Egyptian-motif video with the likes of Eddie Murphy, Iman and Magic
    Johnson in it.  Seeing just the ad, I notice that Michael's hair is now
    perfectly straight, and in the clip, the song he is singing is just one
    note sung over and and over...the same note.
    
    Doesn't sound too interesting.
    
    K.C.

>    The wierd one will be showing up on FOX again soon, in an
>    Egyptian-motif video with the likes of Eddie Murphy, Iman and Magic
>    Johnson in it.

    This was last night, 8:26.  Taped it for my kids.
    
    Now that so many people are dumping on Mr. Jackson, I notice critics in
    magazines like Rolling Stone and Village Voice have begun to ease up a
    little.  E.g., Christgau @ the Voice graded "Dangerous" an A- and called
    it his most consistent since "Off the Wall".  (I don't agree, not having
    liked much he's done since "Off the Wall", but my grade-school-age kids
    agree it's better than "Thriller" and "Bad".)  Not that there isn't a
    lot that's ridiculous and worth dumping on about Michael Jackson the
    phenomenon, and some of the music...   - Jay

    I was pretty dissapointed by the "remember the time" video.
    
    Can't really say why - I don't think you need much for a storyline in a
    rock video, but even so, this one seemed inane and pointless and
    having little to do with the lyrics.
    
    The bottom line is probably just that I don't care for the song - too
    repetitive.
    
    Some cute special effects with sand though in the beginning.  

    Re's
    
    Anything news about his press conference yesterday?
    
    Jan.

	If Michael is going to do a "world tour" don't you think that the
	states would/should be included - I mean last time I checked we
	were part of the world.  Maybe he's planning on touring in the
	states but won't announce his plans 'till he's finished in
	Europe/Asia/Africa,etc...

	I wonder if Michael DOES drink Pepsi........

	Has anybody heard anything about whether or not he will do some
	concerts here in the U.S.?

	BYW, MTV has got a contest (it won't start 'till 2/10/92)where
	100 lucky people will win a limited edition "Dangerous" CD, and
	out of these 100 some will be picked to have dinner with Michael
	on the set of his next video.  Not sure how many are going to eat
	with Michael...

	This weekent 2/8 and 2/9 MTV is having what they call a 
	"Dangerous Weekend"  playing Michael videos, the special
	"More Dangerous Than Ever" and so on....

		*D*

          

  	<BYW, MTV has got a contest (it won't start 'till 2/10/92)where
	100 lucky people will win a limited edition "Dangerous" CD, and
	out of these 100 some will be picked to have dinner with Michael
	on the set of his next video.  Not sure how many are going to eat
	with Michael...>

	A correction to my statement about this contest - evidently
	as far as I understand it, at least - on Monday 2/10/92
	MTV is going to start it's contest and the first 100 callers
	with the correct answer will win the limited edition "Dangerous"
	CD and out of these 100, 1 will win the chance to dine with Michel
	(the winner is entitled to bring along a friend)evidently this is
	to go on for weeks, 100 people a day win the CD and 1 of that 100
	get to have dinner with Michael.  

	I bought a "collectors copy - first printing" CD of "Dangerous" and
	it has the pop-up cover that MTV had said would be out soon...

		*D*

    Re-1
    
    <<I bought a"collectors-copy"....>>
    
    So much for the title"collectors" *D*,bins full of it here priced 
    f60,- guilders which is about $30,- for nothing more then a few
    tid-bits of gadgets popping out around a gold-coloured CD.
    
    Though,I like the remix of"Remember the time".(followup here of B&W)
    When is "Dangerous"-The REMIX-ALBUM going to be released? hahaha ;^)
    
    Jan. give us the MTV phone number ok? 
    thx

    Hi Jan,
    
>When is "Dangerous"-The REMIX-ALBUM going to be released? hahaha ;^)

    I surely like to know ;-))))))))
    
>give us the MTV phone number ok?

    +44-71-3834250 in the UK, that's MTV Europe

    Question to the rest of the world, especially the USA: A friend of mine
    watched a USA basketball game on European TV, he claims in the
    background he heard a house-remix of the track 'JAM' by Michael Jackson.
    Anyone heard this? Is it the followup to Remember the Time, or maybe (as I
    heard suggesting) one of the tracks off the new C&C album?

    Andy ;^)

              
	      I am confused by this contest - the commercials for the
	      "My Dinner With Michael" contest state that people all
	      over the globe will be converging(sp?)on LA and the rules
	      (which are run by so fast that only the slow-motion button
	      of my VCR allowed me to read them) state that only the
	      continental states are eligible - 

	      I don't know if it's a remix of "Jam" or what but I too, have
	      heard in several different places this song.  But I only
	      have heard parts of it - starting with the breaking glass
	      and not going on much further...

             So far, I have not heard the entire song "Jam" anywhere except on
	     "Dangerous" -  MTV dance show is playing the remix of Black or
	      White quite often -  think it's called Club MTV or something
	      like that...

			*D*		

    Hi,
    
    Info please on the collaboration of wacko with Eddie Murphy?
    They plan to make a duet record.
    
    thx,
    Jan. ;)

    I am hearing that In the Closet will be the next release from
    Dangerous.  It is also rumored that Madonna might play a cameo
    as "THE MYSTERY VOICE". Details anyone?
    
    Dave.
    

    RE:.55
    
    Yes Dave, The Closet is the followup. Last year Micheal and madonna
    were together at the grammy awards. It never got to a duet, maybe
    due to that the rumour last year, the rumour this year could be legit.
    
    How about the Eddy Murphy/Micheal Jackson(rumour?)?
    
    Jan. 

  

	The video for In The Closet is to be aired on Fox on April 23rd
	Madonna is supposed to do a cameo as the Mystery Girl AND model
	Naomi Campbell(sp?) and Michael are suppposed to do a courtship-like
	dance "where something un-expected happens"  Filming for this video
	is supposed to take 5 days and starts this weekend 3/28 in Palm
	Springs, California.  The budget for this video is something like
	$1.6 - $1.8 million.

	Michael had an agreement with Eddie Murphy to sing some background
	vocals on Eddie's new album if Eddie would appear in Michael's
	video Remember The Time.  Michael has supposedly recorded vocals
	for several songs on Eddie's still-to-be-published album.  I think
	it's gonna be called Yeah or Right.

	Getting back to that MTV contest - I did win a CD of Dangerous and
	it should be arriving soon.

		*D*
    

    .57�	Naomi Campbell(sp?) and Michael are suppposed to do a courtship-like
    .57�	dance "where something un-expected happens"  Filming for this video
    
    	Yeah, David Bowie will come out and challenge mikey to a dual..the
    the two little f______s will roll around on the set for a while then
    get up a cry "Lawsuit"!".  :*)
    
    B.A.

    I briefly heard the end of In The Closet on Kiss 108 this afternoon.
    I could't identify if this was a remix or the cd version. Are all
    stations playing this now?
    
    Dave
    

    Any thoughts on the In The Closet video?
    
    Sexy, but boring.....
    
    I mean sexy as far as the female, not M.J.....
    
    Well thats not to say that ladies don't think he's sexy,  I don't.
    
    Not that I think any guy is sexy,  but she was sexy.... Quite sexy
    indeed..
    
    Dave
    
    

    Is this the vid where he's getting sued for using part of the (I think)
    Philadelphia Orchestra recording of a Beethoven symphony?
    
    K.C.

His videos for Dangerous have gone downhill.  At least Black & White was
watchable/listenable.  This song sounds like a Peter Gabriel outtake with all
the sounds (samples? - not sure).  The song is fair at best and he kind of
twitches all over.  Naomi Campbell can't save this video.

I noticed that his Neison ratings have gone steadily down for each video, so I
may not be alone in this...

Tim

    I agree, up til and including "Black & White" the videos all had
    something special, new or unusual about them.
    
    My reaction to the last two could be summarized as "So...???"

I think that both the girl and Michael were sexy
in the closet video....why can't you ever hear the
words in his songs....he may as well be mumbling.

Didnt grab his crotch this time...so he rated big
in the video for me.

Not a Michael Fan,

TW

    Saw the vid while channel surfing last night between Buffalo Sabre
    goals :^) and whoever said he wasn't grabbing his crotch must have had
    his/her eyes closed.
    
    Naomi?  Wow.
    
    Mark.

    he's not sexy, he's ridicolous !
    
    just my opionion
    andrea

    I noticed that Michael Jackson has a (new?) video out titled something
    like "In the Closet". Is there a message here?
    
    Brian

-1


if there is you cannot hear it anyway....his words
are indistinguishable.....

TW

    I do belive there is a message, but not about what some might think.
    The title is of course is a phrase commonly associated with homosexuals,
    but I think M.J. is talking about keeping sexual feelings in general
    homo or hetero in the closet, as opposed to open display.
    Am I babbling?  Come to think of it, why am I attempting to analyze sp
    a song that I cannot stand anyway?
    
    dave
    

    I heard a remix of Jam this past weekend on Boston's WZOU. Any news
    on when this video is coming out?  New rap stars Kriss Kross is in it, 
    and are also going on tour with M.J. 
    
    Any U.S. tour info?
    
    Thanks 
    Dave
    

    The Jam video was on last Friday night.  It stared Michael Jordan, and
    had cameo shots of Kris Kross.  The video did not go well with the
    song, however it was entertaining.  It focused on Michael Jordan
    teaching Jackson how to play hoop, and Jackson teaching Jordan how 
    to dance Jackson style.
    
    Overall it was a good video, but do you think Jackson is depending on
    other stars to carry his video's?  Notice how every video since
    Black & White has been promoted by his guest stars names. Ie
    remember the time staring Majic Johnson etc.
    
    Dave
    

                  
    
	News from the Michael Jackson fan club - the next video is supposed
	to be for the song "Who Is It?" - I heard that Michael had Guns and
	Roses in this video.  

	Also, I have been told that there are RUMORS of a tour in the US
	but, of course, no dates are set yet.  There is supposed to be a
	new commercial for Pepsi that Michael has done.  Again, no date on
	when we in the US will be able to see it.  

	MTV, Fox, and BET are going to have specials on Michael with
	live footage from his first "Dangerous" tour apperance that
	will air on July 2, 1992.  The "Dangerous" tour begins in Munich,
	Germany on June 27, 1992.

	Hope to see his tour in the US sometime in the fall of 1993
	MTV has given this as the earliest date we can expect to see
	the "Dangerous" tour in the states.

				*D*

         
	 Michael's next video should be for the song "Give In To Me"
	 from his "Dangerous" album.  Slash of Guns & Roses will be
	 in this video and Michael was filming it 2 days prior to the
	 start of his "Dangerous" tour in Munich,Germany.  
	 
	 Michael is also supposed to have a video for the song
	 "Gone Too Soon" which will have pictures of Ryan White in
	 it.

			*D*

    Hi,
    
    The "Who is it" video premiered last night in DEF II.
    It showed"lazy" socalled expensive call-girls.
    Michael is waiting to have a go with one girl who uses
    different names&aliases but never shows up.
    
    Hhhmmm, this time the vid and tune will be no hit.
    
    Jan.

    
    IMHO Jackson's post Thriller days have been complete twaddle....
    I.E He has'nt done anything wothwhile  creatively in 10 years!
    
    MK.

    
    I don't particularly like MJ, but i have been invited to his concert on
    Saturday, so i am going. I will tell you what it is like!
    
    Rupert.

    Well, here is the report from a person who is/was not a Jackson fan of
    the concert at Wembley on Saturday night.
    
    The concert itself was very professional, with good use of props etc.
    to aid the performance. Jackson himself was in the spotlight throughout
    the night occassionally being joined by band members, including an
    outrageous guitarist (lady) with long blond locks. I think Jackson
    failed badly to lift the crowd beyond the usual casual screams of the
    normal stadium concert. The atmosphere lacked any real bite, although
    the music was fine.
    
    The atmosphere was not helped by the block of seats behind us in the
    stands who shouted at us for standing up and trying to groove with the
    man. I think they thought that they were at the opera or something.
    Needless to say, we danced and they left early.
    
    I didn't pay to go and with hindsight it's probably a very good thing i
    didn't.
    
    Rupert.
    

    That blond lady guitarist was probably Jennifer Batten.
    
    Supposedly she's working on a solo album but I don't think she
    has any major recording credits at the moment.  The only thing
    I have by her is one piece of a "Guitar" compilation.
    
    She contributes articles to "Guitar for the Practicing Musician".
    A guitar magazine.

    
    Does anyone happen to know which movie director directed the video BAD?
    

    As suggested elsewhere on the net, it was "Feisty" Marty Scorsese.
    
    Ray

    I know that John Landis directed "Thriller" and I think he also
    directed "Beat It".
    
    I'm not sure if he also directed "Bad".

    As suggested elsewhere on the net, it was "Feisty" Marty Scorsese.
    
    Ray

    Hi friends.
    
    I would like to know if the concert that MJ will make in Bucarest next
    October,1st will be broadcasted live in other countries around the
    world.
    Infact, a private Italian TV will broadcast it live, and I am ready
    with VHS and tapes to record it (I'm not a great MJ fan, but my wife
    and my daughter,2 1/2 old, are a little bit crazy for him and his
    music).
    From his side, Mr.Jackson will put in his pocket about 20Million $ for
    the permission of broadcasting.....hope he doesn't forget the "Heal the
    world" Foundation, by what he says to be a major promoter.
    
    Cheers, Antonio.

    Hi Antonio,
    
    Yes, MJ will pocket the full $20mill, he will get some percentage on
    the interest of that lump sum. Let's hope atleast some of that money
    will be donated. 
    
    The show will be broadcasted also on FILMNET. They've been advertizing
    to get you hooked on them. But I don't care seeing wacko's(MJ) concert
    let alone paying a monthly membership fee of about $25,- for their
    (Filmnet) modulator(encoder)
    
    But enjoy yourself Antonio ;^)
    
    Jan.

    Heard last night that MJ canceled the remainder of his euro tour because
    he's got a bad throat and his doctor told him to go to LA immediately.
    Sounds like a $10M cold.

    --Ron

>    Heard last night that MJ canceled the remainder of his euro tour because
>    he's got a bad throat and his doctor told him to go to LA immediately.
>    Sounds like a $10M cold.

Ouch! He's supposed to do the live HBO broadcast this weekend! That's $20M
down the drain right there.....

alan

    
    If he's not careful, he'll end up broke.....NOT! ;-)
    
    
    guy

    i read in next weeks tv guide that the "live' broadcast this weekend
    was acutally taped earlier this month.  if this is true then, he get
    hsi $20M and a cold!
    
    	ann

     
    yes, it is pre-taped, because he did the concert the 1st, and in Italy
    we had the broadcast the 4th of October due of "unknown" reasons.
    Some part of the show was cutted (comparing it with what I saw live in
    Rome last July), the entire broadcast was about 1 and 1/2 hour.
    About Mr.Jackon's performance.....he seemed to be affected by more than
    a simple cold during the first two songs (Jam and I wanna be startin'...)
    his voice was scratched into the microphone and two or three times he
    had to take a break just to breath a lot...just a cold?? or maybe his
    voice is starting to loose the freshness and the flexibility it has
    always had??
    The rest of the concert was quite good, unfortunately underlayed
    to an horrible direction, I don't believe anyone that has not watched 
    the show somewhere is able to understand all of what happens on the
    stage. Anyway, is better than a kick on the teeth...enjoy the show!
    
    Ciao, Antonio. 

    
    The first song "jam" was the best of the show I felt.  The way he came
    on stage was fantastic!  But i wish ther were more dance sequences that
    wa haven't seem before.  He did the same steps for Thriller, Billie
    Jean and Beat it, that were in the video.  I would like to see some
    new stuff, and if I have to see any more fan's pass out, I though I was 
    going to pass out also.  
    
    Despite those setbacks, the concert was unbeliveble!  I taped it, and
    that was all that was on the tv sunday>
    
    David
    
    

    Ok, I'm not really a MJ fan, but I watched it for a while because of
    its potential and the spectacle.  After about 30 minutes, I got bored. 
    I thought I was watching a year-old MJ video.  Same songs, same crotch
    grabbing, same dance moves.  Maybe it's new in Europe.  
    
    The effects were great, though.
    
    Jim

    Gee, I thought he had a lot of new dance steps even if they were
    clearly in the same old MJ style he's been using for years.  And yes,
    he did a lot of those steps he's been doing for years and they are
    getting VERY old.
    
    One new one for example was sorta like "Moonwalk" meets the
    "Charleston" where he goes across the stage by turning his feet in
    and then out.
    
    And I was dazzled by the "Lean" in "Smooth Criminal" where he seems to
    lean forward to an angle that you would think couldn't POSSIBLY be done
    without falling.    Anyone know how that was done?  Invisible ropes???
    I know that it's at least emphasized by a clever camera tilt.
    
    Actually what most people think is the "Moonwalk" is actually called
    the "Back Glide" (where he seems to be walking forward but actually
    moves backward).
    
    The "Moonwalk" is the the one where he sorta slides his hands up and
    down his sides and sorta turns on an axis.
    
    Glad to see that Jennifer Batten (the blond female guitar player with
    the very wild hair) got a long solo spot, but I was dissapointed by
    what she played.  She's much better than that.
    
    And I couldn't agree more that we saw about 15 times too much "fainting
    fans".   It seemed like it was about 4 times in every song!

    Got a chance to watch the video last night, even though I'm not a big
    MJ fan, but I was amazed at the effect he had on the audience, in the very
    beginning, before he said a word, made a move, did anything, the place
    was going nuts, (what music school do they teach that at???)
    His stage presence is incrediable, to be able and grab an audience of
    that size without a bunch of dancers is remarkable, (I know he had some
    up there..).  I thought his dancing was better than ever and I saw
    quite a few new moves, a lot more street dancing.  I'll admit that his
    voice was a little scratchy, when he was singing, but who cares, you
    go listen to Frank Sinatra, I want to see MJ perform, and thats what he
    did.  If Michael never does another new step he's already considered
    one of the greatest dancers, in my eyes the greatest, seeing an MJ
    concert without MJ doing the MoonWalk and all his patent moves would be
    stupid, Billie Jean and the MoonWalk go together.
    After all Elvis did the same (1) move his entire career.
    
    Keep doing what your doing Mike, its working for me........
    
                                               Howard
    
                                                               

    re: "Greatest Dancer"
    
    When an interviewer asked Michael Jackson whom he thought was the
    greatest dancer of all time, he said "Fred Astaire".
    
    When an intereviewer asked Fred Astaire whom he thought was the
    greatest dancer around today he said "Michael Jackson".
    
    I don't make comparisons, I just appreciate that unlike so many other
    pop stars, Michael Jackson clearly works VERY HARD at what he does.
    I don't mean the effort he puts into shows - I mean the effort he
    puts into his craft.  
    
    He also strikes me as being very "ambitious" - always trying to make
    things bigger, better, more amazing and dazzling than the last time.

    I'm sure that someone out there in noteland recorded the concert, would
    someone be so kind as to let me borrow the tape for a night.  I work
    in AK02 and live in Hudson MA.  I'm not a MJ fan persay but I always
    enjoy a good concert.
    
    				Thanks,
    
    				Bart Lasky

    
    well don't get me wrong, the moves are good, and Billie Jean would not
    be the same without the moonwalk.  But "jam" for example was very good,
    but they did a very brief dance sequence that could have been fantastic
    had they continued it a little longer.  it was new and fresh and I was
    going nuts.
    
    Smooth Criminal was great.  I was also trying to figure out how they
    did the lean like that.  What about the dancers that were "shot" at the 
    end of that song?  What a great effect.
    
    Did anyone notice that after the motown medley when MJ was introducing
    his brother's and empty spotlights shown on the stage, there was not a 
    spotlight for Jermaine.  In the sequence of names, the light would have
    been projected right behind MJ.  Instead, he said his name, no light
    then he said Randy and a light came down right beside Mike then one
    more for Jackie I think. I wonder if that was an accedent or was there
    a reason behind it.
    
    Bart;  I did tape the concert (of course) but I live in N.H.  Hope
    someone else can help ya.
    
    
    David
    

    David,
    
    Probably not an accident.  From what I understand Jermaine wrote a song
    criticizing his brother Michael about all the physical changes he's
    undergone.
    
    ...Rania

    
    What physical changes?
    
    :^)
    

    Well,the ones in his face which is beginning to drip ;)
    
    Jan.

    Apart from the nose and chin job, I think Jermaine's point in his song
    was the color change's that Mikey has undergone.  One of the verses in
    Jermaine's song goes somethimg like this.
    "when you were made, you changed your shade.  Was the color wrong.....
    your so far gone"  or something like that.
    
    David
    
    

    OK, I saw MJ and Oprah last night and it was, eh, *creepy*.  The oddest
    part was when Oprah asked him to do some dancing and singing, he seemed
    to click on a switch and become the assertive performer we all know,
    yet the rest of the time he seemed like a little kid.  
    
    I thought he was a bit odd before, but after seeing this I'm really
    wondering about the guy.  But MJ himself said it best: it doesn't
    really matter about his personal life, why can't people talk about his
    music instead.  The new video featuring Slash was typical high-quality
    MJ stuff, not my cup of tea, but world-class within its genre.
    
    						Brian

    Bravo to Michael Jackson!
    
    I have been a fan for a long long time.  I have seen and heard the
    constant Michael bashing done by the press and public, and it is about
    time he came out of his shell.  
    
    I am shocked by the response I have heard so far today.  There is only
    one other admitted Jackson fan in my building, and being the only male
    jackson fan that I know, I take alot of grief from friends.  Today
    however, i have had at least four prople come to me saying that their 
    opinion of the man has changed.  They actually belived the oxegen
    chamber bit as well as the others.  Oops make that five people.
    Another on just came to my office.  Wow!
    
    I will say that to a real Jackson fan, there was nothing new.  I didn't 
    really learn anything about the man. 
    
    I didn't really belive the skin dissorder bit, but I was approached by
    a coworker who told me that his parents have friends that suffer from a 
    skin dissorder that decreases the skin pigmentation.  They are white,
    but they have rather large blotches of bleach white skin.  Michael
    says he has to wear makeup to compensate for the blotches.  It could
    be true!
    
    But anyway, good for him, it's about time he stuck up for himself! 
    
    David
    

    
�   I am shocked by the response I have heard so far today.  There is only
�   one other admitted Jackson fan in my building, and being the only male
�   jackson fan that I know, I take alot of grief from friends.  Today
�   however, i have had at least four prople come to me saying that their 
�   opinion of the man has changed.  They actually belived the oxegen
�   chamber bit as well as the others.  Oops make that five people.
�   Another on just came to my office.  Wow!
    
    I agree!  I used to really be down on the man, but over time, started
    to respect him.  Yes, he grabs his crotch too much, yes, he's esotric,
    blah, blah, blah, but it really bothered me that so many people made
    such a special point of lambasting the guy every chance they got.
    
    Today, though, redemption.  Even hardened detractors warmed up a little
    after the interview.  Glad to see it.  Maybe we can get back to the
    music now.  Most people were characterizing him as sad rather than
    weird, and I guess I can accept that.
    
    - Sean

    
    
    I like Michael Jackson, but I'm sorry I am not going to buy that
    skin disorder thing.  Does he also have an illness that trims his
    lips to be thinner and skinnier everyday ?
    
    What he does with himself doesn't bother me, I still like him and his
    music and his dances. But I think it's a pity.
    
    I haven't seen the Oprah show (yet), but when I was watching the
    American Music Awards, I thought "He was an attractive, handsome young
    man in his thriller days, why did he turn himself into a freak ?". I
    guess it's his business. I just wish he wouldn't insult our
    intelligence with the 'disease that bleaches his skin' story. I know
    people with that problem, as a matter of fact, someone very close to me
    suffers from it, but I don't think that's what Michael Jackson got.
    
    I wish he used his outstanding creativity only on his careography (sp?)
    and on his videos, and not on his physical appeareance.
    
    Some of his videos are master pieces. I think he is a great dancer.
    I like his thriller album the best.
    
    Cheers
    
    Lale

    
    
    This strangeness thing he's into just distracts from his musical
    talents and other assets.  It took me a long time to appreciate his
    music for the well-crafted work that it is, and it stands on its own
    merit.  But it's embarassing to express admiration for the work of a
    person that appears in the tabloids more often than Fergy...
    
    

    
    Yeah, I think Lale's first paragrach in .105 say it all.

    Michael Jackson has enormous talent but he's turned himself into a
    freak. It's too bad because it tends to taint people's opinion of him
    even though he continues to prove that he is one of the greats in
    popular music.

    --Ron

    Tut tut tut!  Making fun of Michael Jackson and criticizing him right
    here in the Michael Jackson note.  Where are the notes police?
      

    
    Off with their heads!  8)
    
    Tim / Yer MUSIC Mod

    
    For what it's worth, they've all qualified their statements with
    "he's an enormous talent, too bad he's a freak"... or something
    to that effect.

    I agree with T_THEO.  In fact, the reason he cited was the short
    version of what I said in another note.
    
    A MJ (or whatever) note OBVIOUSLY does NOT have to be only positives. 
    That  would be boring.  Even the truest fan often has negative things
    to say and other fans find those things interesting as well.
    
    The basic idea is it should be for "fans".  The notes which for  which
    that rule has been invoked have (IMO) not written by people with any
    appreciation of the artist, are also clearly insulting and clearly have
    compromised the note for "fans".

    I am a fan, and have been ever since I can remember.  Yes I do have
    some negatives to say, but not about him himself.  My negative replies
    are about his music, or a paticular preformence.  For example, I hate
    it when he lip synchs (sp).  As for him personally, if you belive
    everything that is written, then perhaps you would like to see a bridge
    that I have for sale in the new york area.  
    
    I was reading the usa today in the break room a little while ago, and I
    mentioned that MJ's dermatologist has announced that he was diagnosed 
    with vitiligo in 1986.  This one woman said "yeah how much did he(MJ)
    pay the doctor for saying that?"
    Why is it so hard for people to belive, or at least give the man the 
    benefit of the doubt?  she is not a fan, she's not black which seems to
    me to be the only thing that should really bother people.  To me if I
    were black, I would be quite pi**ed off if he deliberatley changed his
    color.  But he didn't so it seems.  So why would this woman care?  Does
    she have a need to doubt the man, or to trip on him constantly?
    
    I don't know.  On with the music!
    
    DAVID
    

    MJ does some great "stuff"...  I love most of his videos, they're very
    entertaining and that's what I'm after, entertainment.  I have just about 
    everything The J5 "corporation" and Michael himself have put out over the
    years.  I'll add that I do think as a dancer/singer/performer he is 
    "gifted" rather than talented.
    
    On a personal level (and in-line with the Oprah interview and the dialog
    it's spurred here in MUSIC) I think the word eccentric doesn't begin to
    describe MJ.  While I sypathize with his being robbed of childhood 
    (I sincerely believe that) I don't buy into alot of his answers. 
    TWO cosmetic surgeries?  Yeah right.  If he does in fact have a skin
    disorder, why didn't he tell the public the name of this disorder?  I also
    resented his plugging his book in lieu of answering questions we'd ALL like
    to know the answers to.
    
    My tubitz,
    
    Tim
    

    Everyone is wonderful.
    

    > I don't buy into a lot of his answers.
    
    That's funny because the interview completely changed my own perception
    of him largely because the answers just seemed to make plain sense.
    
    About the only question I was left with was "why did he wait so long
    to debunk these things?"
    
    And there even seemed to be a plain answer to that.  Michael Jackson
    clearly/admittedly is not a completely mentally healthy human being.
    It is very evident that all the REAL eccentricities are a reflection
    of his privacy and childhood being ripped away from him (something
    which even the doubters say they believe).
    
    I think it's just taken him years to work on being able to discuss
    these things openly, first in the book, now in the interview.
    
    Also note that with all the hype around him, I was never before aware
    of all the charity work he does (I certainly was made aware of every
    penny Bruce Springsteen ever donated even though I never seek to read
    about him).   I think the answers to all my unanswered questions could
    be that he is a very private person.
    
    Sure, I'm still left with a lot of questions (like what was the other
    surgery, and how did his lips change if not without surgery).   But
    hopefully no one will continue to believe that he sleeps in an oxygen
    tent or wants to get the elephant man's bones, etc.
    
    > Everyone is wonderful. 
    
    I'm glad you think so Tom.  ;-)
    
    

    re: .108 Tom -- is that a pun?
    
    "Where are the notes police?"
    
    Don't you mean the police notes? Now, THOSE are EVERYWHERE.

>                                 <<< Note 37.108 by RAGMOP::T_PARMENTER "Human. All too human." >>>
>
>    Tut tut tut!  Making fun of Michael Jackson and criticizing him right
>    here in the Michael Jackson note.  Where are the notes police?

    Wha...? Hold on. Here are the two consequtive notes:
================================================================================
Note 37.107                      Michael Jackson                      107 of 116
LEDS::BURATI "never gonna do it without the fez on"   9 lines  14-FEB-1993 11:13
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
    Yeah, I think Lale's first paragrach in .105 say it all.

    Michael Jackson has enormous talent but he's turned himself into a
    freak. It's too bad because it tends to taint people's opinion of him
    even though he continues to prove that he is one of the greats in
    popular music.

    --Ron
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    
================================================================================
Note 37.108                      Michael Jackson                      108 of 116
RAGMOP::T_PARMENTER "Human. All too human."           3 lines  15-FEB-1993 08:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Tut tut tut!  Making fun of Michael Jackson and criticizing him right
    here in the Michael Jackson note.  Where are the notes police?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



    First, if you're refering to me I hardly think I was in any way "Making
    fun of Michael Jackson". And if a was "criticizing" him, so what? I
    never said anything about your criticizing anyone within a particular
    string. You must have me confused with someone else. Also, I hope you
    noticed that I paid high tribute to his talent as well.

    If your .108 was not directed at me then you should indicate the note
    to which you are referring.

    --Ron

    ref. .117
    
    Ron, I think he dialed 911 on us because of the 3 notes preceeding his;
    i.e. mine, John's and yours.
    
    
    The radio station I listen to never plays MJ. When "black and
    white" was a hit, they played it once or twice. That's it. MJ is
    just not their style. However, this morning, they were playing
    "the way you make me feel". I was very pleased to recall what a
    lovely song that was.
    
    Lale
    

    Interestingly enough, the distinction(s) drawn by Theo on Burati
    between the notes in here and the "Stink" attacks (that they also
    mention appreciation, and don't "make fun" of him) exactly reflect
    the distinctions I outlined as being important regarding what is
    appropriate in the Sting topic (that note is now hidden).
    
    Note that the controversy surrounding the negative comments comes not
    from the MJ fans (who have NO problem with it) but from an invalid
    analogy between constructive criticism and clear cut "attack" notes
    that go as far as using insulting nick-names.

    Maybe we are taking this attack thing a little too seriously.  Being a 
    fan, I hear alot of criticism.  But I don't feel like they are
    insulting me or mine.  He is a pop superstar, and bound to get
    criticism.  But here in this note, we said after the interview, now
    maybe we can get back to discussing the music side of the man.  But we
    ventured off into the attack or not to attack thing.  
    
    My conclusion is that this note is for discussion of Michael Jackson. 
    Good or bad, every opinion has a right to be heard.  But for those of
    you who choose to jack the man around everytime a rumor is heard, maybe
    you should consider the source you heard it from, or just give the man
    the benifit of the doubt, and do not belive EVERYTHING you read.
    
    On to the music.... Did anyone catch his acapella version of Who is It
    on Oprah?  The boy can get into his music like nobody's business.
    
    How did you guy's feel about the video?  He said he was trying to set
    a stage for a rock concert type video.  I am sure Slash had a major
    part in that.  I wonder why Keep The Faith hasn't been released as a
    single yet?  That is one of the best POP songs on the Dangerous album.
    
    Later
    David
    

    Alas, MJ has openly said his dad beat him and "told him he was ugly". 
    I'd waget that his self image was so poor that he kept changing the
    skin color, lips, and nose.  I think he agreed to let Oprah have the
    interview because he knew that she would be "gentle".  Still, once he
    was brought to tears... and she backed off.  Another interviewer would
    have had him bawling.
    
    I like his music, but prefer his stuff from the other 3 albums before
    this one.  Also, he sung quite well for President Slick.  Anyone catch
    that?  The song, "GONE TOO SOON" for Ryan White was touching.
    
    But MJ does look like a freak today.  I have a hard time looking at his
    face, so scupltured, so bleached.  He is quite ugly.   During the
    Thriller days, he wasn't a bad looking guy.

    Oh, I couldn't believe that amusement park in his back yard!  And it
    should be noted that MJ does a LOT for sickly children!
    
    For this, I applaud him.  He is giving back much of his rewards for his
    success to help these children... children with cancer.
    

    Does anyone know what was the first song from Thriller to become 
    a music video?
    
    Thx,
    
    Ray

    I don't know for sure but I believe it was "Billy Jean".
    
    I sorta remember it coming out, and also if I recollect correctly,
    MJ seemed in between the "old look" and the "new look".  Whereas
    on "Thriller" and "Beat It" he was definitely "new look".

    
    Does anybody know what the fuss is all about ?
    
    Lale

An 11 year old has complained he was abused by MJ.  The child was in therapy and
claimed that MJ had molested him.  The therapist is required by law to notify
the police.

What should have happened next is a quiet investigation to look for backing
facts.  What happened was the press got wind of it and MJ gets tried in the
press.

I think MJ is one strange cookie, but I doubt there is any basis for any of
this.  MJ does seem like a good target for blackmail/extortion though...

Tim

    
    
    You mean you guys aren't being bombarded with continual news casts and
    updates about Michael's crotch grabbing?  It's blown the Heidi Fleiss
    story into the weeds in our local (L.A.) newscasts.  The alleged victim
    is 13, the therapist didn't report it, the boy's father did after
    Michael's representative refused to grant the (*) a $20M film
    development deal, and there is probably no truth to the accusations at
    all...
    
    I feel strange defending MJ, but this looks pretty clear-cut.
    

    Did anyone see the "Little Billy's Not My Lover" video on In Living
    Color last night???

    
    More information is starting to come out. Saw Hardcopy the other
    night. They interviewed a couple over in Thailand, whoc used to
    be MJ's housekeepers (or something like that). They say they
    have evidence that MJ may indeed have some things to worry about
    regarding himself and children. They didn't say exactly what
    evidence they have, but they sounded convincing at the time. I 
    think a diary is one piece of this so called evidence.
    
    I sure hope it's not true. 
    
    	Jerry
    

    Those folks are also suing MJ for back wages. 
    
    The diary has been/will be turned over some authorities to try and 
    ascertain it's validity.
    
    I get the impression even the media don't think of this couple as
    "star witnesses".
    
    Edd (who wonders why he even knows this)

    Howcome there's been no Michael Jackson news in here lately?  Hope all
    his Fans have not deserted him.  I believe that MJ is innocent of child 
    molestation charges.  All of the disgruntled former employees who came
    forward and did the talk-show circuit were there to make $$$ and bring
    the man down.  He settled out of court because there is no jury in the
    world who would treat him FAIRLY?  Who doesn't have an opinion of
    Michael Jackson right?  I think he paid the kid off to be done with
    this thing and gain back some harmony in his life.  The Santa Barbara
    grand jury dropped the investigation from lack of evidence.  What did
    the LA jury decide?  To keep the case open and try to persuade the kid
    to come forward to testify?  The very fact that the public heard about
    this case to me is evidence that MJ is NOT GUILTY.  He has enough $$$
    to settle this thing behind closed doors without anyone having heard
    about it at all.  The media has crucified him unjustly and I'm still
    mad!  I hope he comes back to his music and peaks in his career like he
    did when he recorded Thriller!  Saw him at the Jackson Family Honors in
    Las Vegas.....he looks great!  Go michael!

    One of the employees that came forward (a maid) was neither a "former"
    employee nor has made any effort to make money off of it.  I was ready
    to believe MJ was innocent until that women came forward.  His paying
    millions also tended to strengthen my thoughts about his guilt.
    
    I'll still buy any good albums he puts out, but I think he's guilty.
    
    And regardless of his guilt or innocence, I find buying your way out of
    a trial to be extremely offensive to my notion of fair play and
    justice.  

re -.2

Tito?  LaToya?  Randy?

    I'm sure not many folks want to believe MJ is guilty, I personally
    don't know or really care, but it would be a shame for those folks who
    think he's such a gentle, caring person..ya know, that Oprah should
    never have asked those tough questions and all that....
    
    imagine if her interview took place after these allegations.
    
    I agree that MJ paying millions to his accusers will make him appear
    guilty...and I agree that this method is not in the best interest of
    the public knowing the truth, or Michael coming forward with the truth
    
    but, the legal system works for the accused, NOT the victim of a crime,
    trust me on that

    Okay, consider this:  Why would  Michael risk a 30-year career by
    molesting a kid and if in fact these people on his ranch, or those
    closest to him saw behavior to suggest that he was guilty of this
    crime...why didn't they come forward before?  And if someone molested
    YOUR kid, would you take a pay-off or want to see the guy brought to
    justice?  This is all about $$$$ in my opinion.  I think Michael is
    very misunderstood and because he is different, in the minds of other
    people that automatically makes him guilty.  I think he's dedicated his
    life to improving the lives of children and it has backfired right in
    his face.  It's almost like he naively set himself up for this to
    happen by spending so much of his personal time around children...it's
    too bad really.  I think people also are not exposed at all, by the
    media of all the caring things he's done for kids...visits to sick
    kids; entertainment at his ranch for sick children; $$ donations to 
    charities etccc....you can't take any of that away from him and I still
    think the truth will come out someday about all of this and he will be
    favored again.  I just hope it's not too late.  So what's everyone's
    prediction about his career now?  

    Predictions about his career?  He's in hock to Sony for millions and
    they are probably *really* sweaty about all this.  Michael had the
    unfortunate luck to have "Thriller" sell so well; his albums since then
    have continued to sell millions but are considered stiffs by the
    industry because they didn't break new sales records.  The allegations
    may negatively impact future record sales; then again maybe not. 
    After all, Roseanne Barr being a total wing nut hasn't convinced the US
    public to turn off their TV sets yet.
    
    MJ needs to come back with a really strong album and back it up with
    videos and a tour in order to salvage his career.  I think he has the
    *potential* to do this, the real question is whether this whole mess
    has dried up his creative juices. 
    
    							Brian

    I wouldn't make a prediction, but personally I'm so tired of hearing
    about him as a celebrity that I'd probably tune out whatever he did as
    an artist.
    
    Edd

    I don't think he'll ever tour again...at least not in the States.  SONY
    didn't drop him like Pepsi did they?  Isn't he still under contract
    with them to produce something like 7-8 more albums and some
    short-films too?  Time will tell I guess......maybe he'll just say to
    hell with it all and retire in Switzerland....or maybe he'll go there
    for a while...& then re-invent himself again and come back to USA and
    emerge as the true King of Pop again????  Who knows?  We'll see!

    RE: payoff vs justice...a payoff from MJ I would tend to take, it will
    be a con$iderable amount....the same option from the everyday case of
    alleged molestation ??  Justice...something this country doesn't have
    enough of anyway, but that's another issue...
    
    MJ is a celebrity, so as a result of his status, the media (who helped
    him obtain the celebrity he has) would love to tear him down...also as
    a result of his $tatu$  he can circumvent the legal system, "due
    process" whatever you want to call it, and not have to deal with the
    case being brought up in court...this I strongly disagree with
    
    I hope for himself that he is innocent, but will we ever know ??  he is
    a talented performer (though I don't particularly like his music) and
    it would be unfortunate if he doesn't continue to entertain his massive
    following

re                     <<< Note 37.136 by ABACUS::JACKSON >>>
                          -< More on Michael Jackson >-

>    Okay, consider this:  Why would  Michael risk a 30-year career by
>    molesting a kid and if in fact these people on his ranch, or those

Well, not saying whether he's guilty or not, but I don't think a potential
child molester will necessarily stand there I think, "hmm, should I molest
this kid, I don't know, it might harm my career" ... I don't think you can
apply a normal level of rationality there.

>    closest to him saw behavior to suggest that he was guilty of this
>    crime...why didn't they come forward before?  And if someone molested
>    YOUR kid, would you take a pay-off or want to see the guy brought to
>    justice?  This is all about $$$$ in my opinion.  I think Michael is

Yes, *I* would want to see the perpetrator brought to justice, but you
can't assume that everyone works with the same set of values.

>    very misunderstood and because he is different, in the minds of other
>    people that automatically makes him guilty.  I think he's dedicated his

I definitely agree with that.  This society doesn't really tolerate difference
as much as it claims.  What's more, Jackson is something worse than different
... he's an effeminate man.  Definitely doesn't go over well these days.

>    charities etccc....you can't take any of that away from him and I still
>    think the truth will come out someday about all of this and he will be
>    favored again.  I just hope it's not too late.  So what's everyone's
>    prediction about his career now?  

Well, he could've helped the truth to come out by going thru with the court
procedings.  Now, almost everyone assumes he's guilty.  He may have bought 
himself some peace of mind, but it's only temporary I think.

    I have a very close friend whose daughter was molested and testified.  
    
    You might look at that choice between money and "justice" a little
    differently if you were in the parent's shoes.
    
    The whole system favors the defendent and the kids often get grilled
    alive (as my friend says "raped" a 2nd time) by the defense attorneys.
    
    Given that the choice is between $15 million dollars and having your
    kid traumatized and humiliated (possibly for naught), doesn't it seem
    a tad less cut-and-dry than how you put it?
    
    	db

    I certainly don't defend our Justice system in this country and am sure
    the alleged "victim" is "victimized" again if the case goes to court.
    But let's face it, I'm talking about THIS case...and none of us really
    know the truth...probably only the boy and Michael.  We all have an
    opinion and I choose to believe Michael...I don't know him personally
    nor do I know the boy...but I've followed Michael's career and read
    every article; book etc..ever written about him etc...since he was
    five.  I find it very difficult to believe he did this or that (as some
    suggest) he is a pedophile.  I think if Michael had chosen to go to
    court, he also would of been "grilled alive" and what if the judge
    would of allowed the press in????  Can you even imagin the media
    circus?  And I still don't know how a jury would of been picked...in my
    travels I find people either ADORE Michael or DISLIKE HIM INTENSELY.
    If the kid did lie, I just wonder how he'll feel about it later on in
    life...when he matures....I wonder if he'll go public with the truth if
    he did lie???  I guess the last thing about this that really bugs me is
    that all of these months this grand jury has been moving at a snails
    pace right....and Michael subjected himself to the "body search" thing
    etc.....how many people does the Grand Jury have to question about
    Michael's personal life to make a decision about this?  The "body
    search" was the only way to try to pin some type of validity to the
    boy's story?  I don't understand that?  Where's the evidence?  I still
    haven't heard any and August will make a year since this has surfaced?
    I say either charge the man with a crime and get on with it or get out
    of his life!

    First of all, I neither adore or dislike Michael Jackson... he's just
    there. He is one of the few people who falls into the category of
    "I don't get it". I listen to his music, and while I don't strongly
    dislike any of it, I'm at a loss as to why he has been elevated to
    Godhead.
    
    And while I generally couldn't care less what celebrities do, and in
    fact actively avoid having an opionion on what celbrities do, I think
    Michael really stuck his foot in it this time. To whit: why would any
    30/something year old man host "sleepovers" at his house in which
    children actually slept with him, *in the same bed*. Didn't it occur to
    Michael, or at least somebody around Michael, that this sort of thing
    was going to eventually blow up? Could any adult with half a brain, who
    was *not* sexually deviant, believe that this is appropriate behavior?
    I mean, it's one thing when your own kids come and snuggle up on a cold
    winter morning (although I think most responsible parents even try to
    keep that to a minimum), but *someone else's kids*? Is he nuts???!!!
    Quite possibly, yes, he is. His behaviour shows that he does not know
    the boundaries between responsible action and irresponsible action.
    From there, it is not difficult to conclude that Michael is capable of
    molestation.
    
    I do not believe that everyone that concludes this hates Michael
    Jackson. I, for one, certainly do not. Because Michael has behaved with
    such blatant disregard of social norm, I don't fault people for
    shifting the burden of proof to him. Further, if Michael is guilty of
    molestation, I think the way Michael's fans have treated the victim is
    horrible!
    
    Brian

    re: Jackson
    
    > I find it difficult to believe he did this
    
    This is the most commonly heard statement among acquaintances of child
    molesters.
    
    Read ANY book on the subject and you'll find that there is no "pattern"
    for child molesters.  They are often trusted and respected people in
    the community, cherished relatives, etc.
    
    >I think if Michael had chosen to go to court, he also would of been
    >"grilled alive" 
    
    Nope, in fact a fine example of how the system is stacked in his favor:
    He can not be forced to testify against himself (fifth amendment), so
    the system protects him from being "grilled".   
    
    The system provides no such protection for the boy. 
    
    > And I still don't know how a jury would of been picked...
    
    In Massachussets (and I suspect in general) you can waive your right
    to a jury and have a judge decide your innocence and guilty.   This
    is an increasingly popular choice given the latest Supreme Court
    decision that bars discrimination against women in jury selection
    (women are thought to be more prone to return "guilty" in such cases
    and thus defense attorneys regularly dismiss females on such juries
    (they are granted the right to excuse a juror without cause a certain
    number of times).
    
    And I also echo Brian's comments about the clear impropriety of those
    "sleepovers" in the same bed.  

    SET MODE/MODERATOR
    
    A person can be a homosexual and not be a child molester and one can be
    a child molester without being a homosexual.
    
    My immediate concern is making you understand what you may and may not 
    say here.  You are entitled to your belief about the connection between
    homosexuality and child molestation but you are not allowed to express
    it here because it maligns homosexuals and it is not a valid topic
    for a music notesfile.
    
    I will delete any further notes which are felt to malign homosexuals.
    
    	Dave Blickstein
    	MUSIC moderator

    Given the topic of Michael jackson, I knew and certainly expected that
    some folks replying would not agree with me or embrace my opinions in
    terms of his recent troubles....I also even expected some Michael
    "bashing" to be posted here because I am a loyal fan of his..despite
    what anyone else may think and am quite used to hearing negative views
    versus positive....I was also hoping, though, to stimulate some healthy
    converstion with some other long-standing Michael fans but perhaps
    there are none out there so I will sign-off for now with one last
    note...to Fans that MAY still care or be logged-in....I hear Michael is
    in a recording studio in NYC working on a new album.  Like it or not, I
    don't think we've seen or heard the last of him.......Bye!

    >   ...to Fans that MAY still care or be logged-in....I hear Michael is
    >in a recording studio in NYC working on a new album.
    
    I'm puzzled by something... slightly off topic, but relevant, I think.
    It seems these days that there is a proliferation of so-called "project
    studios". Many of the albums that are coming out are being produced in
    the artist's own facility. Sting, Peter Gabriel, Pink Floyd all come to
    mind.
    
    With Michael's penchant for privacy, and the fact that he burns up a
    lot of expensive studio time making his records, I'm curious if anyone
    has any thoughts on why Michael doesn't at least track part of his
    projects in his own studio. As far as I know, he doesn't even *have* a
    studio... and he can certainly afford one.
    
    Has anyone ever heard/read an interview with Michael where he discussed
    this? Just curious...
    
    Brian

    Hi,
    I wondered the same thing actually.......I think he had a Studio built
    in his family's home (when he still lived with them) in Encino and I
    also thought that he had a studio in LA (part of his MJJ productions
    maybe???) but you got me!  Maybe someone else has the answer!?!?  

    >I was also hoping, though, to stimulate some healthy converstion with
    >some other long-standing Michael fans but perhaps there are none out
    >there 
    
    I *AM* a longstanding fan of Michael Jackson! Since the early 70's!!!!
    
    I just come to a different conclusion than you about his guilt.

    Sorry, I don't get it...how can you admire someone (by claiming to be a
    fan) and think this person is guilty of such a horrifying act at the
    same time.......????????  

re: .159

>    Sorry, I don't get it...how can you admire someone (by claiming to be a
>    fan) and think this person is guilty of such a horrifying act at the
>    same time.......????????  

Admiring someone's musical ability is not the same as admiring them as a
person.  There's lot's of great artist of various types out there that
aren't particularly wonderful human beings.

In the case of MJ, I'll go even further...I admire his musical talent
and ability, but I don't particularly care for the type of music he does.

-Hal

    Well, I..for one am anxious to hear what his "musical ability" and
    "talent"
    will bring to us next although I am sure I have a long wait.  It
    typically takes Michael 4-ever and a day to release an album and his
    releases are ALWAYS late.  I think his most creative album to date
    (but not my favorite) has been Dangerous and I wonder what new ground
    he will break next?  And I wonder how the public will respond?  Some
    critics say all he has do do is release a new CD and everyone will
    forget about all his trouble; others say he's washed-up in the
    Industry.  I don't know...when I saw him appear with his family in
    Vegas back in February of this year...the arena held about 15K people
    and this crowd gave him a 6 minute standing ovation when he appeared on
    stage....all the crowd wanted and chanted for was Michael Michael
    Michael...despite the fact that his sister Janet was there and other
    legendary type celebrities like Elizabeth Taylor; Smokey Robinson;
    Gladys Knight to name a few.  It just didn't seem to me that his
    presence was offensive to anyone at all in the crowd or that he lost
    the magic to draw such a positive response from the attendees.  I guess
    record sales IF he should tour to promote the new album will tell the
    true story???  

    Michael has been working on his Greatest Hits album due out in Sept.
    with 5-new songs added to it...I wonder if wife Lisa Marie can be
    heard on the album?

    
    
    Never having heard LM, is she a graduate of the Linda Eastman school of
    backup vocals?
    
    

re: .1163
    
>    Never having heard LM, is she a graduate of the Linda Eastman school of
>    backup vocals?
    
Don't know, but at least she comes from more encouraging bloodlines. :-)
    
-Hal

    
    
    
    Well, maybe...if she's truly Elvis' daughter she should have no trouble
    ripping off and then pasteurizing Michael's work for the ignorant
    masses.
    
    

    <<< Note 37.165 by EZ2GET::STEWART "an E-ticket ride at Neuro-Disney" >>>
                  -<   what a mean thing to say, smack me!   >-



   You asked for it....





   SMACK!

    
    	He was supposed to have an album out within the last couple
    	weeks.  Does anyone know if it's out, and what it's called?
    

    Hi, Yup its me....;^)  the base noter 37.
    
    To update this topic MJ has released "His-story/History" album with
    the first cut from it into the charts...."SCREAM".
    
    The question I have is; is there any information on what is on the
    market(or not) on promotional material of this album? You know,
    promo copies and specialties of any kind of this album.
    
    Please inform....
    
    
    Jan. ;^) 

    
    	Might want to grab this one now ... he's re-recording "Scream" to
    	remove some of the ethnic "slurs", even though the slurs aren't
    	being used in an offensive way.
    

    Yeah..Whats that About??He says"Kike"or Some_Thing,and Some of the
    Jewish_Community Got Offended???
    
    
          Crazy_Kosher_Al

    Actually, the members of the jewish community that *I* saw interviewed
    believed that Michael did NOT intend it as a anti-semitic remark - that
    is, they do NOT believe he is an anti-semite.
    
    However, what they pointed out to him, and what he eventually conceded
    (and I agree with) is that most young people will see it as being
    an anti-semitic remark.
    
    I guess the context is just a bit too subtle.