Conference misery::feline

    Denise, I saw this article too.  I have not seen this (cancer) before
     myself.  It is
    best to check with a vet regarding how the shot is given.  Subque hurts
    a little less and an intramuscular can leave them limping for a day or
    two.  I vaccinate all my cats for rabies, whether they are going to
    shows in another state or just house pets.  Not that it would ever
    happen, but I let my cats sit on our enclosed porch for fresh air and I
    wouldn't want some rabid animal attacking them!
    Karen
    

    My vet always administers the rabies shots intramuscular and all others
    sub-q.  I also have the rabies shots given to my cats even though they
    never go outdoors.  Better safe than sorry!
    

    Could you possible xerox this article and send it to me?  I just lost
    my 12 year old cat to that and he had numerous tumors, but the largest
    was around the shot area.  Thanks.  Judy Woo, LKG1-1/M6A (temp).

    Judy,  I can send you a copy. No problem, unless someone else has
    already beat me to it, I will pop in decmail tonight.....
    
    Denise

    Thanks a lot!  I kind of hope this wasn't the problem. What a shame
    that something you get to protect them might wind up killing them!
    

Does anyone have any more info on this, or a copy of the article? (It's a
long shot in a 3-year-old topic...)  My almost-16-year-old cat just had a
fibrocarsoma removed (sigh), and I think it may have formed in the general
vicinity of where she'd had rabies and other injections (hmmm).

Also, does anyone have experience dealing with this situation (fibrocarsoma)?
I'm disheartened to hear about .3's experience... :-(

My vet said that a couple of recent (but small) studies show that radiation
treatment before surgery resulted in a somewhat longer period of time before
another fibrocarsoma appeared, vs. radiation treatment *after* surgery.
Though neither were exactly optimistic in terms of the overall effectiveness
of radiation treatment.  And I'd really hate subject my poor kitty to such
a traumatic experience....

Sigh....

-- Nina

    A large mass appeared in Panther's back leg on Sunday. I know it wasn't
    there two weeks ago. While it is good sized (about the size of a plum),
    he is still able to walk, jump, run, etc. His appitite is good and all
    of his lab work and xrays came back normal. (There was a slightly
    elevated white cell count but the vet at Angell said she wasn't worried
    about it.)
    
    Last December, Panther had a benign vaccination site tumor removed.
    Shortly thereafter, he developed what we feared was lung cancer, but
    turned out to be allergic pnemonia caused by his litter. (Xrays of these
    two problems look similar). 
    
    Anyhow, while the rabies vaccinne claims that only 1 in 100,000
    vaccinated cats will develop this, my vet has seem 3 cases in the last
    lear, and the vet at angell said that she has seen several in the last
    few weeks, and that it seems to becomming more common. 
    
    ANyhow, Panther is having a biopsy and surgical consult on Wednesday,
    and we will then decide on the course of action for him. Probably
    radiation to shrink the tumor, then surgery (probably partial
    amputation) and then possibly follow up radiation. My Merck's manual
    sayd that there is a 70% reccurance rate within a year, but what
    Panther has going for him is that he is still strong and otherwise 
    healthy, no other signs of cancer, and his appitite is still good.
    
    Please send good thots his way.
    
    Deb 

    Deb...Good thoughts coming your way for Panther.    I just went
    through something similar with Moses.  A big plum size bump appeared
    at the base of his tail.  We had a biobsy done...which just showed
    inflamation and extra white cells.   After about 1 week the bump
    completely disappeared......and nobody knows what it was.
    
    Good luck..and keep us posted.
    
    Sandy 

    Deb, many good thoughts coming Panther's and your way.  Is the vet sure
    this is cancer?  (I have never heard of cancer growing that fast.)
    Please let us know what's happening,
    
    Karen (hugs)
    

    p.s. Allergic pneumonia to his litter?  What litter was this?  Thanks.
    

    RE: .9
    
    The biopsy is tomorrow but they are pretty certain as the mass is right
    in the middle of the muscels and tendons (right where the needle
    deposits the vaccine in an intramuscular shot). Fibrosarcomas are very
    agressive cancers, but don't usually metastisize. The Merck's Vet
    Manual talks about as a class of tumor that grows very fast.
    
    The vet at Angell says that they sometimes start growing real fast and
    seem to appear almost overnight.
    
    .10
    
    Standard clay litter. Basicly, he was sneezing 10-20 times in a row
    when ever he went near the box. I tried a lot of differnt litters, and
    found that he doesn't sneeze when he uses a corn cob based litter (like
    that used for small animals).
    
    Deb

    Deb,
    
    I'm sorry to hear about Panther's illness.  I'll get the gang together
    and we'll send good thoughts your way.  
    
    When I took Mac in for his vaccinations last month the vet did
    something different.  She gave the shots farther down on the right
    front leg instead of between the shoulder blades and the rabies
    vaccine was further down the back leg than up on the butt.  I asked
    about it and she said they've been seeing more of what appears to
    be vaccine related fibrosarcomas.  There's been a recommendation made
    that they vary the locations of the shots and to give them further
    down on the legs whenever possible.  This way if something develops
    they have a better chance of recovery for the cat.  They can amputate
    the limb if necessary to save the cats life.  I realize this information 
    is a little late for Panther but I thought it might be useful to
    someone.
    
    Best wishes to Panther,
    
    Jan
            

    
    
    	Good vibes coming Panther's way!
    
    	JJ
    

    Jan,
    
    >something different.  She gave the shots farther down on the right
    >front leg instead of between the shoulder blades and the rabies
    >vaccine was further down the back leg than up on the butt.  I asked
    >about it and she said they've been seeing more of what appears to
    >be vaccine related fibrosarcomas.  There's been a recommendation made
    >that they vary the locations of the shots and to give them further
    >down on the legs whenever possible.  This way if something develops
    >they have a better chance of recovery for the cat.  They can amputate
    
    Do you know who made the reccommendation? Was it the vaccine companies?
    (Could this be an admission of guilt? Do I smell class action suit?)
    
    That is rather interesting, as what is happening here is that as of Jan
    1, the vets were asked to start being consistant about what leg they
    give the rabies vaccine in (i.e., my vet is now always doing it in the
    right hind leg) as they want to track if there really is a connection
    (my vet is convinced that there is). He also tries to give it as low in
    the leg as he possibly can.
    
    The vet at Angell said that it was "good" that his tumor was close
    to the knee since they might nought have to amupuate the whole leg and
    will thus have something to radiate afterwards. However, the prognosis
    with this kind of cancer in general isn't good. About 10% metastisize, and
    about 70% recurr within a year of excision. Radiation is supposed to help,
    though.
    
    Thanks for the info, and the good thots.
    
    Deb

    Are they thinking it is the rabies vaccine, and not the FeLV
    vaccine now?  At one point, they weren't sure.  I saw a three
    legged kitty in a film about the San Francisco SPCA - truly amazing,
    when he ran, it was completely indetectable(sp?) that he was missing a
    leg, he only limped when walking.
    

    Well, this is REALLY bothering me. More so because the rabies shots
    are MANDATED by the state. If the state is mandating something that 
    might kill my cats, I'M going to want to kill someone (figuratively
    speaking of course). If there's even a HINT that the rabies vaccine
    may be causing fiberosarcoma's, they should suspend the program until
    their SURE.
    
    At any rate, I just got off the phone with my vet (actually one of the 
    technicians) and got the following. Apparently they (one of the things
    I have to find out is who THEY are) are not sure WHICH vaccine is
    causing the problem. The vets have been asked to seperate the 3
    vaccines that cat's regurlarly get. Rabies, distemper, and i forgot.
    Actually, the rabies shot can now be given subcue but they want to keep
    it intramuscular to keep it isolated.
    
    The thing that bothers me is that "someone" KNOWS there's something 
    going on which is why the vets have been asked to seperate the three
    shots and give the rabies in the same place every time, the distemper
    in the same place every time etc. Keeping a mandated program when
    "that" vaccine may be causing cancer is insanity.
    
    But then think about this (I've got to stop this or I'm REALLY going to
    get upset). If they think the rabies vaccine may be causing cancer, and
    they suspend the mandated rabies shots, then people will stop getting
    the vaccine and they will never know if it was the vaccine or not. So,
    they'll keep the program in place so they can use our furfaces as
    guinea pigs to "test" this vaccine.
    
    Excuse me while I go start smoking again......8^)

And this is one of the problems discussed. By the time one vaccinates a cat or
dog for all the things you can protect them against, you can give them a heck of
a lot of shots every year, and the more shots given the greater the risk of this
sort of thing.

Class action suit? I doubt it. You'd prefer perhaps that the drug makers stop
making the vaccines? Not me. Everything carries risks. I've worked at more than
one vets over the yeas and have even seen animals die during regular exams - eg
they stress out big time and have an undiagnosed genetic heart disorder. It's
really rare, but it happens. I still remember the tape I had to watch as a kid
before having my wisdom teeth out. It described all the things that could go
wrong, eg permanent nerve damage. Pretty scary. Stuff like that makes me give
our indoor/outdoor cat a big hug every time before letting him out the door,
because some day it may be the last time I see him.

Paying for it. Don't take what I say wrong, but in the majority of cases, stuff
like limb amputation isn't rocket science. If Angell quotes more than $600-700
for everything from the first exam to antibiotics to go home, you might be able
to do better elsewhere. While places like that tend to have the best of
everything, it might be worth (no pun intended) considering if it would be much
riskier to have it done elsewhere at a lower cost. Certainly leaving some leg,
then radiation afterward is something that would most likely be done there.

					'Luck,
					Trace

    re: .15
    
    >    Are they thinking it is the rabies vaccine, and not the FeLV
    
    good point Karen. This is why I stopped giving my indor only cats this
    shot.
    
    
    Deb
    

Interesting that this particular string came up. My 2 and my 
mother's 2 were just done this past Saturday (Rabies all around),
and I had forgotten about this, so I forgot to ask the vet to move
the shots from the shoulder.

My sister had called (from MD) earlier this year and asked
me to do a web search on lymphoma in dogs [and cats]. It seems
her vet has been seeing an increased incidence of this in the
animals in her practice - 3 or 4 within a couple month span.  
There is nothing that connects the animals other than that they 
all get their shots from the same vet.  Her vet was wondering if 
there might be something that she should be aware of. This was 
back in February/early March when we had this discussion. 

I talked to a friend of mine who works for a Belmont vet, and 
she said, without hesitation, "Rabies shots".  

I tend to believe rabies over something like the FeLV shots 
since my sister's comments were pertaining to dogs. Elaine (my
friend) suggested getting the rabies shot in the leg. Easier 
problem to solve/work-around should a cancer develop at the site
of injection.

Kathy

    Re: .18
    
    My vet talked about this "maybe vaccines unknown which one cancer
    problem" with me awhile back, and he raised it again when the crew
    came in in January.  I have been having them get the FeLV because
    I lost my first (indoor) cat to it, and FeLV is in the neighborhood
    cats so I have been worried about mine being exposured if they, heaven
    forbid, accidentally get out.  Locally in CA, I think rabies is much
    less of a problem, but I'll have to check into that.  He did say in all
    his years of practice, vaccinating probably thousands of cats, he has
    seen two tumors like this.  Both cats were operated on in the past year
    and haven't had recurrences.  Hm, both in the last year?  I wonder if
    something about the vaccine changed recently, or if it takes numerous
    exposures to it to cause the problem...
      

    Deb,
    
    I believe the recommendation to move the shots lower down the leg was
    made by the veterinary board/association and not the vaccine company.
    
    Jan

    I feel a little better about things. I was talking to a friend here in
    the office who mentioned that a lot of what I might think is a part of
    that mass might actually be inflamation. It doesn't seem possible that
    a tumor could grow to the size of a plumb overnight. This kind of ties
    in with him having an elevated white count as his body it trying to
    fight something. I would imagine that the real size of the tumor will
    show up if they ultrasound his leg tomorrow.
    
    So, at least I feel a little better.
    
    Deb

Lots of transatlantic healing wishes to Panther from me and my
chaps over here... 

I can't help being grateful to be in a virtually rabies 
free country - and once again am relieved they haven't 
given into the pressure from people who don't like the idea
of their pets going into quarantine just to keep us this way. 
It must be a horrible quandary to face. 

    I heard from the vet at angell. The biopsy was done and he is waking up
    now we should have the results back tomorrow, and then she will discuss
    them with a surgeon, and I should have a game plan sometime on
    Thursday.
    
    basicly, the bump I felt in the left leg was 99% sure to be a fatty
    tumor; the one in the right leg was of a different kind, most likely
    fibrosarcoma, but we can not be sure until the biopsy comes back. She
    said that she doesn't feel that the tumor has grown since Monday. She
    had a surgon "look" at it and it was said that it could have begun
    growing along between the muscels.  We are definatly looking at
    amputation if it is fibrosarcoma, as it most probably is. She will be
    confiring with a radiologist and surgeon to decide on teh next step,
    which I hope can begin on Friday.
    
    He is classified as "gaurded", which means that they don't think that
    they can cure him if it is fibrosarcoma.
    
    Deb

This is from today's Vogon News Service.  Apparently it's an issue in Europe as 
well.  The VNS correspondent is from the Netherlands.  I'm don't know what 
newspaper(s) he uses as his source.

    CAT owners and vets are being urged to avoid vaccinations in certain
    cases because of a risk of cancer associated with the injection.

         Oh, Deb, big hugs and let-it-be-something-simple vibes to you and
    Panther ...
    
    					- Andrea_who_has_no_time_:-(
    					  Loki, Midnight & Patches

RE .14 --

>    However, the prognosis
>    with this kind of cancer in general isn't good. About 10% metastisize, and
>    about 70% recurr within a year of excision. 

Hmm, when my cat's fibrosarcoma was removed in Dec. '95 (see reply .6), my
vet told me that this type of cancer does NOT metastasize, but does tend to
recur, often within a year.  But I'm happy to say that after about a
year and a half there is no sign of a recurrence in Chayna so far (knock on 
wood!) and she seems generally hale and healthy - in fact, in darn good 
shape for a 17-year-old!!  By the way, I opted not to subject her to radiation
treatment because the vet said there was no guarantee that it would make
any difference, and because she's old enough - and neurotic enough :-) -
that it would be extremely traumatic for her, and I didn't want to put her
through that (I made the same decision when she was diagnosed with
hyperthyroidism several years ago).

RE .25 --

>The VNS correspondent is from the Netherlands.  I'm don't know what 
>newspaper(s) he uses as his source.

Just FYI, the source attribution is right at the end of the VNS main news:

  Source: Electronic Telegraph - 
  Electronic Telegraph is a Registered Service Mark of The Telegraph plc
  For more details on any of the above headlines stories, visit the
  Electronic Telegraph on the Web at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/

Best wishes, Deb, for Panther's health!!

- Nina 

    I snarfed up that article.  I don't have time to format the
    whole thing.  It's clear they are working like beavers to find out
    what's happening, but it doesn't offer any clues, except I think from
    reading this below that they suspect either the rabies or FeLV vaccine,
    since they recommend that those be given on the legs:
    
    6.To further characterize the causal link and to facilitate treatment
    of vaccine-associated sarcomas, the following general
    guidelines for vaccine (and
     other injectable product) administration are suggested: 
    
         a) Veterinarians should standardize vaccination (and
            other injection)
            protocols within their practice and document the
            location of the
            injection, the type of vaccine or other injectable
            product administered,
            and the manufacturer and serial number of the 
            vaccine, in the patient's
            permanent medical record. 
    
         b) It is recommended that: 
    
            i) Vaccines containing antigens limited to
               panleukopenia, feline
               herpesvirus type-1, and feline calicivirus (+/-
               chlamydia) should be
               administered on the right shoulder, according to the
               manufacturer's
               recommendations.
            ii) Vaccines containing rabies antigen (+ any other
               antigen) should be
               administered on the right rear limb, as distally as
               possible, according to
               the manufacturer's recommendations. 
    
            iii) Vaccines containing feline leukemia virus
                 antigen (+/- any other
                 antigen except rabies) should be administered on the
                 left rear limb, as
                 distally as possible, according to the manufacturer's
                 recommendations. 
    
            iv) Injection sites of other medications should be
                recorded. 
               

I tried to get to the article mentioned in .25 from the Electronic 
Telegraph's Web site, but it kept timing out/getting no response
(although I was able to get to the "UK News" page where the link to
the cat article was).

So I surfed a bit and came across the following Web sites related to
fibrosarcoma (or feline sarcoma or post vaccination sarcoma or vaccine
associated feline sarcoma, as it is variously referred to):

Vaccine Associated Feline Sarcoma Task Force home page -
    http://www.avma.org/vafstf/default.htm

Personal Web site reporting on a particular kitty's experience 
("Sylvia's Journey of New Hope") -
    http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/3909/newhope.html

"Sleuthing Sarcoma" -
    http://www.wizard.net/~peacock/sleuth.htm

These should get you started - there are many more links from these sites...

-- Nina

    All of the past notes have posted great info.  The standard protocol
    that they taught us in vet school & that is recommended by vet boards
    is to vaccinate rabies in the right hind, FeLV in the left hind, and
    the combo vaccine in the scapular area.  The suspected vaccines are
    FeLV & rabies.  The combo (FVRCP, etc) vaccines haven't been implicated.  
    Vaccines use an adjuvant to cause the body to recognize what's injected as
    foreign.  Most rabies & FeLV vaccines use aluminum, and it's the adjuvant 
    that is suspected as being the cause of the fibrosarcomas.  Obviously,
    the more vaccines, the higher the risk.  It is scary, but research is 
    being done.
    
    There is nothing you can do about the risk associated with the rabies
    vaccine.  Vaccination for rabies is the law & it's a good one.  I don't
    have the actual statistics in front of me, but the fibrosarcoma vaccine
    reaction is rare enough compared to contracting a uniformly FATAL
    disease (for both the cat & the owners). Even if the risk of getting
    rabies is lower than that of a vaccine-related fibrosarc - can we
    really take that chance?.  The protocol for vaccinating in the legs will 
    help to make the fibrosarcoma more treatable.  It mets very slowly (so 
    slow that you can for think of it as not met-ing), and a full amputation 
    of the hind leg will give your cat the best chance at avoiding recurrance.  
    Obviously, there are no guarantees.
    
    The FeLV vaccine is a different story.  This vaccine isn't recommended
    for indoor kitties (another reason for keeping the kitties indoors). 
    The risk of an outdoor cat of getting FeLV is 1-2 in 1000, and the risk
    of getting an FeLV-related fibrosarc is 1 in 10,000.  So, the
    statistics are very much in the favor of vaccinating outdoor cats.  And
    very much not in the favor of vaccinating indoor cats.
    
    It is scary, and I really hope that your cat doesn't have the tumor.  I
    commend you for being so quick to act, and I wish both you & your cat
    the best of luck!  Please keep us posted.
    
    Best Regards,
    liz

    
    I have indoor only cats who live on the eighth floor of a highrise. 
    The likelihood that they will be exposed to rabies is essentially zero. 
    The likelihood that they will contract a vaccine related fibrosarcoma
    is small but nonzero.
    
    len.
     

    But I'd have to side with Len. Anytime you have a state mandated
    program, your asking for problems. I guess I just generally rebel
    against "bib brother" telling me what I have to do.
    
    There is OBVIOUSLY something going on here, and apparently EVERYONE
    knows about it. This being the case, "I" think the state should suspend
    the mandated rabies vaccine requirement until such time as the answer
    is found. As much as we all love our fur faces, I think people would be
    much less forgiving if there was a state law regarding vaccinations for
    your children that may be causing cancer. I don't look at this as being
    any different. As far as I'M concerned, I have 5 KIDS, not five cats.
    If it takes a year or two to find out what's happening here, and let's
    just assume it turns out to be the rabies vaccine, what kind of an
    appology do you think you'll get from the state for all the 3 legged
    kitties running around.
    
    Also, just to save disk space, I'm well aware of all the pros and cons
    of having the state mandated program as opposed to not having it. I'm
    well aware people can lie and say their cats/dogs are indoor only when
    their not. Regardless, I think it stinks, and the answer that "well,
    we're segrating the shots to the hind leg so that we can amputate and
    solve the problem" isn't acceptable to me.
    
    Regards,
    
    Steve

Back on my usual...don't forget Us Guys/Girls horse...

Like the folks at the vets who handle pets who aren't happy to be there. We
get bit from time to time (we had a Dr. bitten by a dog just yesterday). If your
critter isn't up-to-date on its rabies vaccine, best be ready to pay boarding
fees for 10 days for rabies observation. The standard words "out back" after
a bite are...
"Geeze, are you okay?"
Followed by: "Is s/he up-to-date on rabies?"

A client may claim that an animal is indoor only, but I have no way to be sure
that's the straight story.  We've held animals for observation when employees
have been bitten, including ones that have bitten me. If we didn't, I wouldn't
be willing to tech there. And if mittens or bowser shows clinical signs in that
period, the fact they aren't vaccinated may weigh in quite a bit on the chances
that his head will be going to the state vet while his body hangs out in our
freezer.  I, at least, find it a stressful time waiting to hear the test
results. I don't mind getting bit - comes with the job and so far I've healed
well. Couple of scars here and there just adds character ;-), but I'd prefer
that pets be current on at least rabies.

FeLV or not, your choice, but rabies - please consider it.

		Trace -whose-indoor-only-cat-Oliver-is-current-on-his-rabies

    Not to start a rat hole, but some required vaccines cause terrible
    reactions in children in rare instances, including brain damage.
    

    Well, you've given me the perfect reason for keeping up with all my
    kids rabies shots regardless of what I think about it.
    
    Being familiar with the early behavior related signs of rabies, I would
    really hate it if one of my little girls bit a tech/vet, got put in a
    cage to be watched for 10 days because she wasn't up to date, and 
    ended up having her head sent to Boston because she was exhibiting 
    anti social behavior, hiding in the corner of the cage, etc. all 
    because she was stressed and terrified. JOJO does this regularly when 
    "she's had enough". She's one of the most gentle things around, yet 
    when she had her operation at Angel, there was a big red sign on her 
    cage basically saying "WARNING". Tech's were warning ME about my 
    own pet she was so ornary. BUT, she didn't have rabies........

    
    
    	Does NH have the same state law in regards to cats having
    	their rabies shots mandated?
    

    I got a message on my machine while i was in class this evening.
    
    The tumor in the left leg is fatty. The right leg is fibrosarma.
    I'm bringing Panther in for a catscan on Friday morning (when you are 
    probably reading this), and possibly an amputation of the leg/pelvis.
    If they do the surgery Friday, he will stay 3 days for pain management.
    
    I hope that they do the surgery Friday (or start radiation) before this 
    thing grows any further.
    
    All good thots, prayers, candle lightings, etc. would really be
    appreciated at this time.
    
    Deb

We keep track of fractious animals - if JoJo has always lunged at the cage door
and tried to rip my eyeballs out ;-) (we have a few like that), then I wouldn't
expect anything less. Of greater concern are neurologic signs - new head tilts,
circling, inability to stand, sudden fear of water, ...  I think of the maybe
20 or 25 I'm aware of that we've sent off to be tested in the last 8 years,
there were 2 or 3 I had expected would be positive. Fortunately I've been wrong
every time so far.

Sure hope everything turns out okay for Panther.

						Trace

    I'm not sure I'm reading one line of your reply right, so let me ask
    this. Of the 20 or 25 (cats I assume) that have been sent off, how many
    actually had rabies.
    
    Steve

    Deb...all my thoughts and prayer will be with you.  
    
    Sandy   

    Deb -
    
    all of our (me and my feline crew) best healing thoughts and prayers
    are with you and Panther.
    
    Gita, Zachary, Romeo & Juliette

    Deb,
    
         Good luck vibes for the surgery, and strong healing vibes for
    after surgery, for Panther.  Also comforting, supporting vibes for you
    8-) !
    
    					- Andrea
    					  Loki, Midnight & Patches

T'was a mix of cats and dogs. Mostly dogs, actually, as they tend to be more
prone to bite someone (eg cat's don't chase joggers, bicyclists...).  I work in
Nashua - closest geographic case I know of was a horse in Hollis (next town
over) about 18 months ago.  We have some statistics posted one on of our
bulletin boards. I seem to recall 57 cases in NH last year in a variety of
animals. It just lists numbers - no locations. We get a separate doc from the
state that lists geographical info, etc.

						Trace

    
    For the record, my cats are all up to date on their rabies vaccinations
    (we are not scofflaws), and they have never bitten or tried to bite
    anyone.  I acknowledge that The Law often cannot make distinctions or
    exceptions for individual cases, and that some of us have to accept
    unnecessary impositions for the sake of those who might try to exploit
    loopholes.  That doesn't make me happy to do so.
    
    My 21 year old Merlin was put down due to bone cancer; like these
    fibrosarcomas, the standard "cure" was amputation of the affected limb. 
    But at that age, he would not likely have survived the surgery, nor
    been able to cope with the loss of the limb if he had survived.  So he
    lived for a few months until he could no longer walk or feed himself.
    Having endured this trial I would not want anyone else, cat or human,
    to ever have to experience anything like it.
    
    Best wishes to Panther...
    
    len (for Rocky, Robin, Blueberry and Floyd).
    

    >>>None of them came back positive for rabies
    
    So am I understanding correctly that 20 or 25 cats/dogs lost their
    lives for nothing?????? and these are only the ones that "your" aware
    of ?????
    
    Steve