Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    
    I have recently been shopping for a midproced CD player also.  I
    would recommend checking out the new line of Yamaha players with
    the hi-bit sampling feature. (They'll probably throw you a mess
    of garbage about 20 bit technology and 8 times oversampling, but
    actually these new players with these added hype seem to so an
    excellent job of true 16 bit sampling).  I have recently purchased
    the Yamaha cdx510 and am thoroughly satisfied.  I've also heard
    excellent things about the new line from Denon.  Check them out
    too.  I've never really been big on Carver and HK.  Anyway, I would
    go Yamaha or Denon.
    					Good Luck,
    					Dave

    Take a look at the new sony 5-disc players.  It may seem like a
    cheap gimic, but I think they're really great players.  4x oversampling
    and 3" cd capeability.  Give them a look before you knock it off
    of your list.
    
    I have had mine for almost a year.  It has been brought to parties
    and back and forth the school a number of times.  The durability
    test results thus far seem excellent.

    	I vote for Yamaha. I recently purchased the 810 model (8X os).
    It's excellent. The remote control is excellent. I think that for
    what you get it's very reasonably priced. Even if you want to spend
    less, I'd still reccommend the model 510 mentioned a couple of notes
    back as opposed to a HK or Sony, etc. The 510 has 4X os which is
    superior to the HK 2X os, at about the same price.

    Gee -- all of a sudden people are extolling the reliability of their
    *new* Yamaha CD players.
    
    Take note that a fair number of people (myself included), have
    complained or are complaining about the POOR reliability of their
    not-so-new Yamahas.  I wouln't buy another -- the first was junk,
    exchanged for a 'new model' (very similar) after unsuccessful
    repair attempts.  The new one is fair, but still has pretty
    bad tracking problems (on disks that a Philips CD player tracks
    with no trouble at all).
    
    Unless someone convinces me that Yamaha has COMPLETELY redesigned
    the transport/tracking mechanism, and VERY thoroughly tested it,
    I would under NO circumstances reccomend a Yamaha CD player.

    
    		George

    I would strongly second .-1.  I have a friend who had a Yamaha (got
    it new about two years ago), and it skips all over the place.  I
    assume they must have done some redesigning if there are now so
    many satisfied customers.
    
    			Steve

    
    re .4 .5 
    
    From what I've heard, the new series of CD players put out by yamaha
    has fixed the tracking problems (well patched actually) by providing
    many times the sampling performance as far as more bits and higher
    rate.  Furthermore, after receiving bad reviews as far as the quality
    of the chips used in the filters, they have replaced them with a
    higher grade.  Thats why the new series has different numbers, its
    much improved over the older series.
    
    I still give Denon high recommendations also.  Anybody have comments
    on their new line.
    
    Finally, as far as skipping, the more expensive models employ some
    extra suspension elements that alleviates them.

    Re: .6
    
    I don't see how oversampling has any bearing on tracking performance.
    There are no more bits read from the disc than before.
    
    			Steve

    re .6
    
    Yes, they are 'old'.  But the changes you mentioned all have NOTHING
    to do with tracking.  I'm not saying that the new Yamahas are bad,
    I have no way of knowing.  I'm saying that the older Yamahas are
    terrible, and I'd make darned sure that the new ones have a
    completely new transport before I'd spend fifty cents for one.
    
    			George

    
    Okay, I'm not going to argue with you guys about something I probably
    don't know as much about, although I have been led to believe that
    oversampling improves error tracking.  If that isn't the case, then
    why does anybody include any oversampling in CD players.
    
    What about the new DENON players.  I've heard good stuff about them
    also, and they are in approx. the same price range.  We've got to
    agree on some brand or this topic isn't going to help .0 with a
    new player at all.
    					Dave

    re: -1
    
      Oversampling helps out the designers of the analog output filters,
    because they don't have to make the low-pass cut-off as steep, which
    means less phase shifting and more stable filters.  I was under
    the impression that oversampling does not mean the same bits are
    read multiple times, but that the bits are just repeated multiple
    times in the decoding software, yeilding a higher effective sampling
    rate.
    
    			Steve

    RE .-1
    
    Yes. Oversampling extent is a measure of the number of computed
    samples inserted between successive disc samples. ie - the degree
    of data interpolation.

    Incidentally, for anyone not aware of it, the Yamaha CDX-1110 was
    tested in September AUDIO. It was very well regarded.

    I went down to cook audio (tweeder) last night. They didn't
    have any of the new yamaha cd's. But they did have the prices.
    VERY EXPENSIVE!!! My mother is a supervisor at Pease Air Force
    Base Exchange and got me onto the base to check out the equipment.
    The Carver cd was $520.00, numerous panasonic and kenwood cd's
    on sale below $300.00. The catalog has the new yamaha's, they
    don't carry the complete line, but they did have one that I liked.
    I think it is called a cdx900u, or something like that, it's the
    new 18 bit one. It actually has a 20 bit range, it shifts between
    the high and low order 2 bits. Cook priced it at $699.00, the catalog
    had it at $410.00. Talk about markup. But the choice is unchoosen,
    I still have not put the money on the table. I am uncertain due
    to the rumblings about yama reliability. Denon's are hard to find.
    I also have not been able to find anything on them in consumers
    report. Please keep the note coming. Thank you.
    
    Dave 

    
    re .10   .11
    
    Thanks for clearing that up for me guys.
    
    re .12
    
    Yeah, its specs are impressive, but it lists for around $1200 -$1300.
    For that kind of money, there are some other brands I would go with,
    i.e.  Stereophile gave the Nakamichi players a better review.  They
    said the Naks D-A converter chips were better quality than the Yamahas.
    This corrected problems with nonlinearity.  This isn't something
    I would really care about with my system at this time.  But if you're
    going to spend around $1300 on a CD player, I would assume you have
    a pretty good system and would care about little things like this.
    
    re .13
    
    The cdx900u is 2nd from the top of the line of the 87 models, the
    older models that everyone in this topic is complaining about. 
    It also got mixed reviews from different magazines.  Gross linearity
    problems as listed in stereophile.  The newer model is the cdx910.
    Also I believe the cdx910 has a higher list price than the older
    model.
    
    					Dave

 Based on my own personal experience, I would strongly recommend a LUXMAN.
 If you can get to Sudbury, go to Electric Gramaphone for a demo. In the
 past, EG has offered your choice of some number of free CD's instead of 
 a discount.

    
    
      This may muddy the water quite abit since I've only owned one
    for two weeks but...
    
      I just purchased the Denon CD 600 at Tweeter (Cook'n) for 229.00.
    It's only 2x os, but I love this thing.  I will trow out my turntable
    this weekend!
    
      I believe it lists for 300, but they probably lied to me about
    that.  So my input is;  The Denon I bought is great.
    
      With that aside, I would like to ask the more experianced noters
    here a question.  Should I take advantage of the upgrade option
    that Tweeter has?   I don't mind giving it back if I can get *much*
    better quality for 100 -150 bucks more.

    RE: .0
    
     Be advised that Yamaha made the guts for Carver's CD player as
    recently as 24 months' ago; dunno if this is still true.
    
     Consumer's Reports articles should be taken with a grain of sodium,
    IMO. They tend to test mostly mainline stuff, which is why you probably
    didn't see a report on Denon. Try Digital Audio for CD test reports;
    Ken Pohlmann writes good ones. Incidentally, every Denon report
    I've ever read was a rave. If you want to know who carries Denon
    in the your area, give Denon a call (number is in here or the phone
    book).
    
     I have an early Carver; I've experienced some minor skipping problems
    during warmup, then the player sounds fine. The Time Lens circuitry
    is fun for a while, but I find I don't switch it on very often.
    When it comes time to replace the Carver, I'll be buying Denon
    (although the Sony ES series is VERY nice)........
    
    
    
    
                                    Ken
    

    
    Well,
    
       It's question and answer time again. The carver cd is on sale
    for $429.00/100 and the yamaha cdx 900 is orderable for $410.00/100
    plus import duty, maybe 5 to 10 %. The carver is here now. Any opinions
    out there concerning the two. The sony's also look good. 
    
       By the way, I tried to get the sanyo going again, but no luck
    so I ran it over the the Harley and throw it in the trash. Piece
    of junk.
    
    Dave