Conference cookie::notes$archive:cd_v1

    You don't need a compact disc cleaner.  If you are having trouble with
    discs, you can clean them yourself, usually just by wiping with a soft
    cloth.  The important thing to remember is NEVER WIPE THE DISC IN A
    CIRCULAR DIRECTION.  Always wipe from the center out.
    
    If your dust and fingerprints are really severe, you could probably
    solve the problem with Windex, although I've never had to try it.
    
    If you're careful to handle the discs only by their edges, and not
    leave them lying around outside their boxes, I can't see why you'd ever
    need to clean them.
    
    -pd

    
    In the 4 years or so that I have been using the CD format, I have
    never cleaned either the player or the CDs.  I have never to my
    knowledge had a mistrack.  At least not one I heard.  After all
    the talk about cleaning players and CDs, I can only believe that
    cheaper players must have a problem with room dust and people must
    leave the CDs out of the boxes...
    
    Jim
    

Re: .-1

> After all the talk about cleaning players and CDs, I can only believe
> that cheaper players must have a problem with room dust and people
> must leave the CDs out of the boxes... 

I think that's a non-sequitur.

I have a pretty good player (Onkyo Model 230), and I don't leave my CDs
out of the boxes.  Ever.  I even close the empty box belonging to the CD
that's in the player. 

I have had my player only since last August.  It played fine until 
winter came, and then it began to tick occasionally, not mistracking but
having to work *really* hard to stay on track.  Then it began to skip. 

I bought a CD cleaner (Audio-Technica dry cleaner), which I used on the
two worst-offending discs, and an LLC laser cleaner, which I used once. 
Skipping and ticking ceased immediately and are gone, at least so far. 

Why do I have this problem?  I can't say for certain, but my best guess
is that it's because I heat my house with wood.  Wood heat is amazingly
dirty - it leaves everything covered with incredible amounts of dust,
and there is no way of avoiding smoke at times.  Smoke gets into the
player, and the particulates settle out onto the laser. 

Different environments produce different problems. 

The instructions with the LLC suggest that it be used after every 10 
hours of play.  I can't see that it hurts to do so, although I probably 
won't.

- Dick

	I read two studies, I believe they were in Consumer Reports and
	Stereo Review, about what to clean CD's with.  They both said you
	probably don't need to pay the high price for special CD
	cleaners.  First try a dry, soft cloth.  If you need more, put a
	little Rally Car Wax on the cloth.  That's right, Rally Car Wax
	was found to best the best substance to clean CD's.  
	
	Myself, I've only ever had a problem with one CD, and I was able
	to clean it with a dry, soft cloth.  -- harrY
	

    
    R.E. .3, I heat my house with wood.  My stereo is at the opposite
    end of the house from the stove though.  I find dust all over the
    top of my SONY ES and clean it off about weekly.  I also have two
    cats that shed like crazy and a 2 year old who doesn't help much
    either.  All this aside, I never mistrack.  I stand by my suggestion
    that cheap players may not track as well under adverse conditions.
    And that if the disks are clean and the player works properly, you
    shouldn't get mistracking.  I never clean them.  But I do take great
    care to not get them dirty.
    
    Jim
    

    I have a Mission DAD7000R which was by no means a cheap CD player.
     Earlier this winter I began to experience occasional mistracking
    problems.  I never leave disks out of their jewel boxes and only
    handle them by the edges.
    
    I discovered that the humidifier on the furnace had ceased to operate.
     Since I fixed the humidifier, I have had no more mistracking problems.
     This may have been coincidental, I don't know.
    

>     Earlier this winter I began to experience occasional mistracking
>    problems.  I never leave disks out of their jewel boxes and only
>    handle them by the edges.
    
I also treat my CDs very carefully.  But, I still get the occasional disc that
hangs up on a single track.  In every case, when I've pulled the CD out and
examined it, I've found some large piece of grunge on the bottom.  A large piece
of fuzz, or grit, or some other foreign matter.  I usually blow it off if it's
grit and wipe the disc with a lint free cloth and it works fine. 

I also buy the occasional used disc and get discs from the local library. For
them I bought a disc cleaner.  Some of them look like they've been handled by
fumble-fingered orangutans, rubbed with a hot fudge sundae, and wiped with a 
greasy rag.  Cleaning them off makes them good as new. 

D

    
    Just for information, I have a Pioneer PDM40 and it sits about 12
    to 15 feet from my coal stove that I use all winter. I dust
    periodically and keep the discs stored either in their own cases
    or in the cartridges. I've had this set up for about a year and
    a half and only mistracked this weekend. Upon examination of the
    disc in question, I found a very fine spot of something, which I
    gently brushed away with a soft cloth. This apparently fixed the
    problem.
    
    I don't think periodic cleaning would hurt anything although it
    might be a little more than needed or necessary if the discs are
    stored carefully and the CD player is operating just fine.
    
    It appears that a clean soft cloth should be all that is necessary
    in everyday/average use.
    
    Steve
    

    By the way, mistracking is one of the more severe forms of data read
    errors that can occur in compact disc players.  It's also possibly to
    have read errors which the players tries, successfully or not, to
    correct.  These can result in subtle (imperceptable?) degradations in
    the sound quality.
    
    So, if cleaning the discs and/or laser is useful at all, then it might
    be useful even when there's no mistracking problem.
    
    -pd

Re: .3, from me, and the responses to it.

Reboot.

My mistracking problem is back.  Worse than ever.  I took my player in 
for warranty repair last night...

- Dick

    One disk I bought recommended Ethyl Alcohol for cleaning.  My local
    chemist was not allowed to sell this to me, as HM Government apparently
    thinks I will go off to the nearest park bench and scoff the lot.
    He sold me Isopropyl Alcohol instead, saying it would be OK.  But
    I'd like the opinion of you people before using it, if it becomes
    necessary.
    
    Jeff.

    Isopropyl Alcohol often has denatureing in it.  This is an additive.
    I've used Isopropyl on tape heads, but wouldn't use it on plastic.
    Each type of Alcohol reacts in a different way.
    
    I also wouldn't use Ethyl, but if you feal that the soft cloth method
    will not work for you, just use Vodka.  Cheap vodka will be best,
    since it has no additives.  It's just Ethyl and H2O.  AND . . .
    If you destroy your disk, you can drink the rest of the bottle :-)
    
    Jeff

    Once, I bought a used CD that was *very* dirty.   It was cheap
    so I decided to try cleaning it using Texpads� (91% Isopropyl Alcohol)
    It left some residue but so thin, it did not bother the player at
    all.
    
    Isopropyl does *not* damage the plastic.   The white residue left
    can be removed using soft dry towel, but anyway do not affect
    the sound nor the player.   
    
    A friend of mine also bought a CD (new) that had paint stain on
    the "laser beam side" (letter/design ink)   Texpads got it clean but
    he had to rub pretty hard to get it out.   Alcohol do not disolve
    the ink/paint but maybe has a tendency to soften it.   Do not 
    wash it *too* hard on the label side!
    
    Good cleaning,
    
    Vince. 

    
    Hmmm...I always thought that denatured alcohol was fairly pure...
    anyways you should probably stay away from isopropyl since it usually 
    has lanolin added because its main use is in massages (I think).  You 
    would want to gum-up your CDs.  Pure alcohol shouldn't bother the
    playing side.

    
    	"WINDEX" or whatever convenient glass cleaner happens to be
    around.
    

    'Denaturing' is done to commercial grades of ethyl alcohol to make it
    unfit for human consumption.  Isopropyl alcohol as bought in the drug
    stores (or chemists for those of you from the UK) contains only alcohol
    and water (unless the label states otherwise). 

    Thanks for the info.
    
    Re: .14 I think my chemist would be breaking a whole heap of laws if he
    sold me a chemical that was anything but pure.  So I don't think
    there'd be any lanolin added.  I'll let you know after the massage :-)
    
    Jeff.

    
    I was speaking in .14 from direct experience of trying to purchase
    pure Isopropyll Alcohol in a drugstore...All bottles of it that
    I could locate listed lanolin as an ingrediant.  I'm sure it is
    available without lanolin...I merely warning you that it is commonly
    sold here in the U.S. with it.
    
    re: .15 Yes, the dictionary makes it abundatly clear that denaturing
    is the process of rendering something unfit for human consumption.
    Is it safe then to assume that "denatured alcohol" usually Ethanol
    with Methanol added as a denaturant?
    
    /

Benzene is often used as a denaturing agent (mostly to help
replace the 5% water which wants to stay in ethanol). Not something
I'd recomend rubbing across any kind of plastic. I don't know about
Great Britain, but in the states something called grain alcohol
can be purchased at many liquor stores. It is 190 proof (95% pure,
the rest is water) which is as pure as you can get ethanol by normal
distillation. Two common brands are Everclear and Graves. A bit 
expensive, but pure ethanol is what you asked for...


					Thanks,
					Keith

    I've read in many places that you should not use Windex or other
    glass cleaners that have ammonia - they can cloud the plastic.
    
    Why not what works well for records - a quick dip in dilute dishwashing
    liquid and water, rinse and pat dry?  Or, if you're more paranoid,
    Kodak PhotoFlo solution, which is used for washing film.
    
    				Steve

    re:.20    Don't use a glass cleaner. The disks are plastic and you
    stand a good chance or wrecking them. The ammonia in many glass
    cleaners will cloud the plastic and sometimes cause it to completly
    corupt its chemical bonding and disintergrate.
    
    A weak solution of a mild dish soap is the most that is needed besides
    a soft dry cloth. I have cleaned a few of my cd's this way with
    good results.
    

    DECwashroom hand soap (the stuff that doesn't squirt out of the
    containers) works quite well.  Cleaned up major tracking problem
    I was having on a Malmsteen disk.
    
    Handle gently, don't scratch, rinse well, pat dry.