Conference marvin::uk_music

    Hi Martin,
    
    See note 369, this guy Andr� is a true believer in these guys.
    Me too actually,esp the chaps behind all this;Ian Curnow,th�
    Phil(Harding) ect.
    And now mr Tony King (jack to a King mix)of I'd rather jack than...
                                                  
    We'r still lookin' for a very spec mix called "SET IT OFF"
    Thats the old Rick Astley tune,"Never gonna give you up".
    record no: PT41568R.Can you help???;-)
    
    Keep on jack'n nitraM, 8-)<--i >-()-> $ (i love it)
    Jan Kwikkel(The dance music library 1969-20..)

    SAW are terrable.
    How anyone can stand up for the mindless rubbish they churn out
    is beyond me. Nothing they have ever produced has ever been thought
    invoking. Their music says nothing to me about my life.
    Pete Waterman should be hung.
    He has ruined the British indie charts with his PWL label. Who would
    class Kylie Minogue and The Reynolds Girls as indie music? How are
    indie fans supposed to find out which of their type of music is
    currently doing well when it's got that rubbish mixed in.
    Waterman is getting worse...frankly i'd rather cr*p.
    
    B.S.

    
    Lowest common denominator music... that's why it's so popular!
    
    Mark (Better sign in if I'm going to contribute!)
    
    PS I must admit to liking Roadblock though! :^)

    Hi Jan, re.> 400.1
    
    I had prevously wrote a reply but wanted to add a better reply
    anyway thanks Jan , I will try a Do some research on the Rick Astley
    single for you when i am next down at the Radio Staion.
    
    I will mail you about more details see you in STORMY::DJ later!!
    
    
    M a r t i n  "n i t r a M "
    

Hi martin,

 Had a good laugh over those narrowminded guys/gals in .2, .3 and .5? So
 have I. I like SAW music a lot, despite what those 'adults' write (I don't
 know if they can think ;-)).

 Let's form a gang, you, me and Jan (The music lib), and continue our
 exchange of opinions on a level more worthy of ourselves, in another conf.
 The STORMY::DJ is o.k. with me. There are more people of our kind over
 there.

 All the others who feel the need to puke when they read this note or hear
 SAW music, please try to aim right into the paperbasket, and not on your
 desk 8-}

 Andre (1200 inches of SAW) Peters.

    RE.5
    
    <I will try to do some research.. at the radio station>
    Martin,use the record no PT41568R,
    RICK SETS IT OFF MIX is the complete re-name for this.
    Thanks for your trouble.
    
    RE. E-MAIL.
    Did you get it?
    
    Jan Kwikkel (the dance music library 1969-20..)
    

re - the past few........
    
    Okay, I think its worked....Now that the dross has stopped, can
    we now get back to what this conference is all about .....MUSIC.
    
    SAW and the word "music" are mutually exclusive !!!
                            
    
    Or have you tried the KYLIE::WHAT_IS_MUSIC conference....I'm
    sure you'll find that quite interesting.
     
    
    H

    I heard that Stock-Aitken-Waterman are organising a Tour this summer
    with all of the Acts they have been involved with.
    
    Jason Donavan being the ** STAR** and a Guest appearance from **
    Kylie Minogue **.
    
    Other acts include: Brother Beyond
                        The Reynold Girls
                        Sinitta
                        Pat & Mick
                        Samantha Fox
                        Hazel Dean
                        and Others they have worked with.
    
    So that would be a good tour also one for the VIDEO!!.
    
    
    M a r t i n "Westsound Radio 96.7 VHF  290m 1035 KHz"

    
    
    
    
    
    Think I'd rather spend a night in intensive care
    
    

    
    Michael

    Sick Joke!!
    

    I also forgot to add the King of the SAW material
    
    Mr Richard Paul Astley  (Ta Jan for reminding me!)
    
    July and August i think it starts .
    
    
    Ma r t i n
    ----------

    RE.13
    Y'r welcome.
    
    Any idea,them takin' a hop to the mainland and do some gigs in flat
    lands??;-)
    Sorry to say this but they can leave Kkkkkky....uuuuhhhh! "bonk"=-(
    at home?
    
    Jan.(who prefer the guys at the mengtafels at PWL)
                                         |
                                    a dutch word tiN raM,see y'r fianc�.
    

    
    I hate to spoil the party, but I'm sure some of you out there must
    agree with me that SAW could actually try and do something to move
    their artists music forward. They certainly can't need the money
    anymore, and while it's quite reasonable for them to provide what
    people want (Why do papers like the Sun sell so well?), certain
    of their repertoire (ok I probably spelt it wrong) have got signs
    of true talent lurking beneath the chants they have thrust upon
    them by the boys in an attempt to ensure chart domination.
    
    Rick Astley has a really strong voice (don't all shout at me at
    once, please), but I think that the material he is provided with
    does nothing to complement it. The same is true of Donna Summer.
    Well ok her voice isn't wonderful, but I normally think this is
    interesting wonder who it is. With her latest one I think 'oh god
    it's Jason Donovan again!'.
    
    SAW could do with specialising a bit in the material they provide
    to each artist to provide them with some credibility as acts with
    a future. SAW can just go on grabbing new acts and producing them
    in the same way, but who's going to remember Rick Astley (in a good
    light) if his records to date are all he has to show for his music
    career.
    
    At the moment they seem to have a computer churning out banal lyrics
    which they put over a synthesized drum beat and they simply give
    the next one off the machine to the next artist who comes along.
    
    Of course some of their acts need banal stuff because they don't
    have the talent to cope with anything else, but it's unfair to those
    who do to be stuck with throwaway pop for a couple of years and
    then to be thrown away with it.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Boy, am I going to get it in the neck from certain people for
    this!
    
    
    

    Re> 400.16
    
    Quote "Rick Astley has a really good voice but i think the materal
    that he is provided with does nothing to compliment it "
    
     If you Have heard most of Rick Astley's material you will find
    that nearly all his music has been written by himself, Maybe he
    has been influnced by SAW but a great deal of it is his own.
    
    He also writes music for John Otis his single "Is this Really Love"
    was written by Rick.
    
    Also Brother Beyond on there new album only(I Think) Two SAW songs
    are on the album.
    
    You see i feel SAW are giving the chance to New and young people
    the chance to bring new talent also helping them to Write there
    own Material.
    
    And tell me this if SAW are always getting slagged Who is buying
    the Records, Because nearly all of them Have Been in the TOP 10
    
    
    Could Jan add more!!
          ---
    
    
    
    Martin "nitraM"
    ------
               
    

    
    Ok I'll accept that album material may be written by the artists,
    but albums are frequently purchased on the strength of singles and
    the material produced as singles is all highly stylised around a
    similar sound. I imagine that even devout SAW fans would admit that
    it's easier to spot a SAW intro than a Kylie, Bros Beyond or Rick
    intro because SAW put their stamp so firmly on the overall sound.
    
    As I said, SAW are providing what the single buying public want
    in much the same way that the Sun provides what the paper buying
    public wants, but the single buying public is notoriously fickle
    and eventually the SAW bubble WILL burst and it will be a shame
    to see those artists who do have some talent disappear simply because
    in the radio listening publics opinion they were only a SAW band
    and not an act in their own right.
    
    IMHO the best single Rick Astley has done was the one he wrote himself
    but even that suffered from the heavy-handed SAW approach to
    production. What makes it even less understandable is the fact the
    single they released as SAW (Roadblock) was nothing like the material
    they churn out for all their artists, proving that they aren't
    talentless oiks who only know how to press one button on the drum
    machine.
    
    Mark

    
    
    I agree with much of what you say in .16 Mark, but your scenario
    is on the basis that SAW have the *ability* and *talent* to control
    their writing and production to suit individual artists, or broaden
    their songwriting scope.
    
    I'm not sure this is the case.
    
    
    I'm also on record on umpteen notes in the conference stating
    that Rick Astley has an excellent singing voice.

    
    Michael
    

    I Have a list of the "HITMAN TOUR" dates and other Artists who i
    forgot to include, here goes (Please Refrain From Making insults)
    
    Jason Donavan and the Reynold Girls will be the Stars of the Pete
    Waterman's "Hitman Roadshow" which embarks later this month.
    The dates will feature acts from the PWL stable, as well as
    Hazel Dean, Sinitta,Mandy Smith and the Shooting Party.
    
    A spokesman for PWL say's the shows are really being aimed at the
    under 18s with free gifts for everybody.
    
    The dates are as follows:
    
    Wolverhampton Eves April 24, Sheffield Roxy 25, Nottingham Ritzy
    27, Bolton Ritzy 28, Stoke Ritzy 30, Liverpool Quadrant Park May
    1, Norwich Ritzy 3, Luton Colisem 4, Hinckley Ritzy 5, Newcastle
    Studio 7, Dundee Coconut Grove 8, Aberdeen Ritzy 9, Edinburgh Caisters
    10, Preston Easy Street 11, Cambridge Ronelles 12, Yale Spiral 15,
    Swansea Ritzy 16, Bristol Studio 17, Leister Studio 18, Southsea
    5th Avenue 22, Bournemouth 5th Avenue 23, Plymouth Ritzy 25, London
    Le Palais 27.
    
    These are all The SAW TOUR DATES.
    
    And rumour say it may be televised for his programme "The Himan
    And Her"
    
    
    Martin
    ------

    I'm glad he's not coming to Leeds. I might have been tempted to...well
    maybe not. But no-one has yet tried to explain why the (S)hitman
    has to ruin the indie charts. What is music like that doing in a
    chart that is obviously not suited to the man. It's my belief that
    he just doesn't like the music so he does his best to destroy the
    fans only source of info - their own chart. Thus destroying the
    music.
    
    B.S.

    re.21
    
    Nothing will destroy worthwhile music. If it's precious to *you*,
    what else matters. Why does a record need to be legitimised by getting
    a place in the charts?
    
    I don't personally like most of SAW's output, but fer Chr*ssakes,
    some of you lot are starting to sound like my parents used to.....
         
    Bob, the man with the open ears 

    
    Re: .22
    
    > I don't personally like most of SAW's output, but fer Chr*ssakes,        
    > some of you lot are starting to sound like my parents used to.....       
    
    That's it! That's where I've heard these arguments before! When 
    Deep Purple appeared on TOTP and I demanded total silence, all I heard
    was 'call that music?' 'what on earth does he think he's doing?' 
    'I've heard better music played on a boiled potato' and the like.
    
    
    	Richard.

    Why don't you all Grow Up the  Man is doing well and he get's
    Slagged to pieces.
    
    Let's Slag the Likes of The other Artists's in this Conference
    instead of a successfull Person who i think you are all Just Jealous
    of Success.
    
    Also I bet all your Children Think i'ts Great That's why the Tour
    is Aimed at the Under 18's anyway and golly all the Kids love
    the Artists so Unless you have a Decent comment to make Don't
    add anything because you are only wasting a very good Topic for
    the likes of myself who appreciate good talent.
                 
    If you want to Slag SAW why don't you start a Topic "I HATE SAW
    MUSIC "
    
    The guy's keep the Young (and old) Public Happy what's wrong with
    That.
    
    This note should be used for Details About SAW not Slagging.
    
    
    Martin
    -----
    

    
    Who's slaggin? Who's the Man?
    
    Richard.

    The Man in Question is Pete Waterman and if you have not been
    making comments against the SAW music then no problem.
    
    As i see it i started this note for info Regarding
    Stock,Aitken,Waterman because i like what they Do! okay I'll admit
    you can express your view's on the Trio but come on guy's half of
    the Replies is Dedicated to there Feeling's.
    
    As i said if you would like to start a Topic "I HATE SAW"
    well do so, and we can continue your feelings in there but
    i would like to see this Topic Used for Discussion on what
    they are up too and about there new Projects.
    
    Thanks Richard  i have read your reply and i Know they are 
    quite a lot of SAW fans out there but really i need this Kind
    of music for my Listener's and People who regulaur go to my
    Gigs this type of Music get's the Dance Floor Busy(Excuse The Spelling)
    and It is really for the Younger Generation and if the Buying Public
    intend to keep on buying SAW records Good on you PWL.
    
    The Man (Pete Waterman) Is'nt stupid!.
    
    
    Martin
    -------
    
    P.s Thanks Jan , See you Thursday.

    
    
    if you didn't want discussion about the pros/cons of SAW then you
    should have called the topic I LOVE SAW - I'll admit that notes
    only containing 'SAW sucks' aren't very insightful but neither are
    'oh rik astley is god and why do people pick on him so'.  I don't
    particularly like SAW because they treat the music too much like
    a product that (if they produce right) can be forced on the masses
    - they signify the 'lowest common denominator' attitude and their
    whole claim to fame is chart position rather than musical quality
    - it might be good 'guilty pleasure pop' but I doubt that in five
    years people will still be saying 'that's *good* music'.
    
    will
    

    
    Re .28
    
    Hear, hear, just what I've said!
    
    Mark

    Yes I agree with .28 too. This conference has become very active
    and much more like what I would like a conference to be due to a
    few comments questioning SAW's marketing technique. If it was just
    full of the usual info between fans it wouldn't be half as active.
    Anyway, still no-one has explained why PWL has to be an indie label.
    And I still hate the guy...and that's for you Martin 'cos you've
    got to take the bad with the good.
    
    Bruce, Leeds (Hang the Hitman)

    I don't hate the SAW people - probably more damning than that, I
    remain totally indifferent to most of their music, although I take
    every song I hear, regardless of who sings/produces it on its
    individual merits. I can't understand all this animosity to
    musicians/producers etc. The fact that they sell millions means
    firstly a lot of people are enjoying it regardless of whether it
    is 'good' (whatever that is) music, and secondly has no bearing
    on whether I actually like it or not. Just because a record sells
    well doesn't mean I am going to like it, or not. Conversely, a lot
    of the music I like probably has only very limited sales, but that
    doesn't mean I like it any less, or particularly care whether it
    sells or not. I like it, and that's enough.
    
    Bob

    Bob, you are right. That last note was perfection. My sentiments
    exactly. You seem to run on the same ideas on music as me. But i'm
    being honest when I say I have never liked a SAW product. What music
    do you like? (That question will probably be frowned upon by the
    SAW followers!)
    
    Bruce, Leeds.
    

    I like everything on it's own merits, hence I like one or two SAW
    productions (Roadblock, the Reynolds Girls), but aside from that
    I like people like Elvis Costello, XTC, REM - guitar-ry stuff but
    not too thrashy, I suppose. Also some jazz, folk, blues etc. It's
    all just music though....
    
    Bob
    
    

    RE.28
    <I doubt that in 5yrs people will still be saying "thats*good* music">
     I think they will after all,when the realy good stuf has survived
     the Kyley sort of stuf.
    
    I say,let time ripen the SAW products,just like time has done with
    f.i. rock&roll(remeber Elvis in his first days or any other rocker
    black and/or white in those days) R&R had to sufer too.
    
    RE.31 Hear hear Bob,I too agree.
    
    Here some news that eats the con reply's
    
    Gerry Marsden(gerry & the pacemakers) are going to team up with
    his eminence Paul McCartney,to remake the Pacemakers evergreen "Ferry
    cross the Mersey".
    They chose Pete Waterman (SAW) to be their producer and chose the
    PWL studio facilities to setup this gig.How about that huh?
    Holly Johnson and The Christians will partying with them also.
    All this has come to result last thursday the 20th and the product will
    be on sale the first week of may '89.                  
    
    This of course is a joint venture to collect money for the family's
    of the football disaster at liverpool-stadium last.
    
    So you see in the pro world of music PWL is excepted,maybe just
    because of the enormous sales that they have made,or?
    We'll see,,,,,,,,,,in 5yrs time.
    
    Jan(the dance music lib 1969-20..)   Yeah I'm 35 and I like SAW
                                         up to a point naturaly.
    

    SAW, like Trevor Horn before them (or for that matter Chinn & Chapman
    with RAK) undoubtedly have/had remarkably good studios that artists
    will want to record in, regardless of the merits of the songs. All
    these people, while not necessarily producing 'good' (again, that
    word) songs, have certainly produced recordings with excellent
    production.
    
    Bob

    
    Surely it's not fair to compare the material of one team of producers
    with Rock and Roll in the Fifties. If all Rock and Roll had been
    made by the same producers and sounded like Elvis Presley then who's
    to say that it wouldn't have just died away.
    
    SAW are NOT doing anything new, they are merely producing a type
    of music (disco for want of a better word) and doing it in the most
    commercial way, hence its popularity.
    
    I don't think people look back on the sixties and say,'Oh weren't
    Freddie and the Dreamers just the most wonderful group ever' (sorry
    F & D fans! :^) ), and neither will they say 'Wasn't SAW music 
    wonderful!'.
    
    SAW are ONLY record producers who happen to have a nose for what
    the teeny-bopper market want. They are NOT a new musical form.
    
    For God's sake, their repertoire consists of 2 soap opera stars,
    a Page 3 girl (with less than usual talent and intelligence), a
    woman whose main ability is to fall out of her swimsuit in videos
    and Rick Astley (who never looks comfortable with the teeny-bop
    idle mantle).
    
    If you hate SAW's material, fine. If you enjoy it, that's
    fine too, but please don't try and tell us that SAW are the the
    most inovative thing since Rock and Roll.It just won't cut ice with
    anyone!
    
    Mark

    RE.36
    
    If you refer to me,(see top) I just gave the R&R as an exmpl,not
    comparing anything.
    I still say"lets see in 5yrs"
    
    <try and tell us"who is us" that SAW  are the most inovative thing
    since> 
    I surely did not imply this :-)
    
    JAN.

    
    I'm not sure who wrote it, or I wasn't when I wrote my reply, but
    I felt (whatever spirit it was written in) that it perfectly summed
    up the intense and excessive importance that people were giving
    to whether SAW are any good.
    
    I'd never imply anything :^)
    
    Mark

    Again, couldn't agree more Mark. Under the influence of SAW progressive
    music is just not progressing. You summed up their acts very well.
    Obviously the SAW music appeals to people who do not like to face
    anything that threatens them. They just want to listen for the fun
    of it. I find SAW music laughable because I cannot understand how
    such rubbish can make it to the top of the charts. But most of it
    makes me so angry because of the state of music today.
    But Mark for me has summed up what SAW are all about with .36
    
    Bruce, A pair of eyes among the blind

    Having took the time to read all the replies that have came 
    about since i last entered a reply (400.24) i can see both points
    of view, i would agree a lot of SAW material is a bit Yaff but the
    buying Public are buying these records, and the good thing for this
    is It'S good for our music industry, so what he has a Page 3 lady
    and all the rest good on them, the are bring in the Millions, also
    Pete Waterman also likes a great deal of other music and doesn't
    just try to push all of his material out to the puplic he is like
    myself a plugger and with his reputation can only help others to
    succeed.
    
    Good one Jan, the Charity Record for Hillsborough as well is a good
    example, also admission to his Hitman tour is #1.OO pound and that
    goes to The Charity too!.
    
    The Trio are good for the Biz.
    
    
    Martin
    ------

    I suggest that the only reason Pete Waterman was chosen to produce
    the charity record was because it will increase chances of massive
    sales and hence greater income to be distributed to the families
    of the Hillsborough victims. Lets face it, these charity records
    aren't meant to be great cover versions, just something that the
    public will buy for a worthy cause.
    
    Have you noticed, while reading this note, the standard of grammar
    and spelling of the SAW fans ? Surely not a reflection of their
    level of intelligence ??! Only joking lads.

    Joke taken,
    
    But what i would like to say in (Good Spelling)
    
    Good Luck To the Man ... I admire anyone who does well and
    get's millions out of it (Maybe i could if i could spell)
    
    Okay Point taken about the spelling but not all of us
    are  nifty with the Keyboard and tend to have finger trouble
    now and agian, but i will wait until someone who has previously
    made comments about my spelling and English and i will be right
    in there with my bit.
    
    Sorry for the Spelling  Just bare with me!.
    
    We weren't all Educated in All Boys Schools .
    
    

    My reaction? Another load of people leaping on the disaster bandwagon.
    Why the hell are we getting another charity record after a disaster?
    Don't these people have life insurance?
    
    Keith

    
       When you object to things, Keith, isn't there a more sensitive
    way you can say them?
    
    
     Vicky (who has a reason to be a bit miffed at previous note)
    

    re .43
    I hadn't actually been getting at you Jan. Your English grammar
    is appalling but you have a valid excuse. In fact I wasn't getting
    at anybody, so I wasn't protecting myself behind a phrase, it was
    a joke. Do you have humour in Holland? Neither was I educated at
    an all-boys school. It was a mixed comprehensive school in one of
    the roughest parts of Birmingham actually.
    Now, where were we ?
    Phil.

.45�       When you object to things, Keith, isn't there a more sensitive
.45�    way you can say them?
    
    Yes, but I'm getting fed up with the way this is being thrust on
    everyone. When a friend or relative of mine dies in a car accident or
    through a heart attack or whatever, will there be a collection for
    them? Not unless they take a significant number of people with them.
    
    However, I admit that there are more appropriate conferences to discuss
    this in than the MUSIC one, so I shall leave it...
    
    Keith

    Waterman is realising the charty record because:
    
    It puts him in the public eye and therefore sell him more
    records...he's advertising himself using a disaster as the media.
    Geldof did it but I have reason to belive he wasn't in it for himself.
    But Waterman with his appearences on Wogan and his compassionate
    rubbish is obviously lieing...I know...I've met people like that.
    OPEN YOUR EYES...THE NICER IMAGE THE GUY GETS HIMSELF THE MORE RECORDS
    HE SELLS...BUT THE IMAGE IS ONLY AN IMAGE...HE COULD BE A REAL EVIL
    BAST**D AT THE END OF THE DAY.
    
    Bruce, Leeds
    
    (He might be doing it out of compasion, the above is just my view
    and I hate the man!)

    
    re .48
    
    If this sounds like a support for Charity records, I'm sorry it's
    not intended that way.
    
    I've heard similar criticism of Bob Geldof for his Live Aid campaign,
    but does it really matter WHY people are doing work for charity
    as long as the people in need of help get it? I was 100% behind
    Bob for his work in helping the starving in Africa, and anyone who
    thought he was doing to further his own (flagging!) career must
    be one calous bastard (Sorry Mr Mod). It disturbed me to see people
    dying on my TV every night just because they didn't have enough
    to eat. If it didn't disturbe you then it probably says a lot about
    the way TV thrusts death and suffering at us every day until we
    get blase about it (but I guess this should be in the TV conference
    :^) ).
    
    It takes a pretty twisted mind to imagine that anyone (especially
    someone as succesful as Mr Waterman) would get involved with something
    like this just to sell a few more of his records. Someone hit the
    nail on the head earlier, his involvement will sell more of THIS
    record. Like him or not it's unfair to accuse him of self-interest
    when you've got no evidence or even a reason beyond 'I hate him'.
    
    Have you ever met him? Did he murder your grandmother? No? Then
    why do you hate him? I tend to save my deep emotions for people
    who deserve them.
    
    Mark
    
    PS I personally dislike charity records, especially this type, for
    'disasters' in Britain. It probably sounds heartless, but 100 people
    die every day in tragic circumstances and to their families their
    death is a tragedy, but no-one makes a record for them.However 100
    die at a football match and it's a national disaster and their families
    must have all sorts of financial help. It doesn't make any sense
    if you really think about it!

    
>    It takes a pretty twisted mind to imagine that anyone (especially
>    someone as succesful as Mr Waterman) would get involved with something
>    like this just to sell a few more of his records. Someone hit the
>    nail on the head earlier, his involvement will sell more of THIS
>    record. Like him or not it's unfair to accuse him of self-interest
>    when you've got no evidence or even a reason beyond 'I hate him'.
 
Oh grow up would you - it is stupid to think that to some extent he isn't
doing this to sell more of his other records.  Oh but I must be completely
wrong because one can see his long 'record' of supporting all sorts of
charities - he is practically giving money away...

And whoever thinks that SAW product will still be around in five years is
in for a big surprise - it might be 'hummable' and they might be media-
darlings but there is very little musical originality/quality there
- no matter how you mix it.

will
   

    
    Mr  Robinson,
    
    You sound as if you are indeed one of the twisted minds I mentioned.
    
    Read back a bit and you'll find that I'm no fan of SAW, but if you
    are really as cynical as to think that someone can only do someone
    else a favour for their own gain then you are indeed a lost cause.
    
    What ever happened to you as a child to turn you into such a bitter
    adult? If I need to grow up, God forbid that I end up like you!
    
    Mark

    Hello again Jan.
   
     <Is my overall grammar bad, or just the text of my note ?
    
    Well, my only knowledge of your English grammar is what I read in
    your replies, so I'm afraid I can't comment on your overall standard.
    Also, in an earlier note, you asked me to try writing a note in
    Dutch. Alas, I have no knowledge of your language, so I couldn't
    even attempt to do such a thing. I do concede that you are certainly
    better at speaking my language than I am at speaking yours, so don't
    count yourself a failure !
    
    Phil.

    
>    You sound as if you are indeed one of the twisted minds I mentioned.
>    Read back a bit and you'll find that I'm no fan of SAW, but if you
>    are really as cynical as to think that someone can only do someone
>    else a favour for their own gain then you are indeed a lost cause.
>    What ever happened to you as a child to turn you into such a bitter
>    adult? If I need to grow up, God forbid that I end up like you!
>    Mark

 Oh Mark - I have truly seen the wrongness of my ways and will forever be 
 indebted to you for your articulate and biting criticism.  Since you know
 me so well (by my two posts to this topic) your opinion is validated further.
 
 I will try to realize that people are inherently good and that criticizing
 pop-producers and/or their motivations is strictly forbidden for only truly
 'TWISTED INDIVIDUALS' would dare to think that way.  
 (and truly it would only be the twisted who could believe that people would
  crush their brethren to death to see a football game...)

 I think I can attribute the 'wrongness of my ways' to the time (as a child)
 that I acquired the dreaded disease of 'opend-mindedness' - something that
 I fear you have little to worry about.

 Oh and Mark - keep personal attacks off the net - they are a waste of time
 and just succeed in making you look stupid.

 will (the bitter one)

    
    Will,
    
    What is wrong with you? Get out of the wrong side of bed?
    
    YOU accused ME of needing to grow up and being stupid.A personal
    attack I'd say, but I'd agree it wastes time and makes you look
    stupid.
    
    I will agree that only twisted people will crush others to death
    in an attempt to see a football match, but that isn't the point
    here is it?
    
    Your sarcastic tone is highly impressive. It really makes you sound
    bright. If you'd worded your reply in a tone which made it clear
    that you considered my comments to be unrealistic rather than those
    of a deficient infant I doubt I would have felt the need to respond,
    but since you started off in such an agressive way I felt that to
    simply take that kind of PERSONAL ATTACK would have been rather
    unrealistic.
    
    If you are going to slag people off you're going to get slagged
    back.
    
    THAT IS A FACT OF LIFE.
    
    Mark
    
    PS Now back to the topic, perhaps? 

    
>    What is wrong with you? Get out of the wrong side of bed?
    
 No - wrong side of the world.

>    YOU accused ME of needing to grow up and being stupid.A personal
>    attack I'd say, but I'd agree it wastes time and makes you look
>    stupid.
    
 I believe the first reference was to 'twisted minds' - but I guess
 you feel that it is ok for you to make this kind of statement and get away
 with it (not so laddy).

>    Your sarcastic tone is highly impressive. It really makes you sound
>    bright.

 That's 'cus I am ... [8^)

>      If you'd worded your reply in a tone which made it clear
>    that you considered my comments to be unrealistic rather than those
>    of a deficient infant I doubt I would have felt the need to respond,

 Sorry but I don't (unlike SAW - right kids) write to the 'lowest common 
 denominator' - you should not take offense at any comments directed at
 your posts - the best offense is facts - if you provided some information
 about how Mr W has (in the past) supported charities it would have been
 self-evident who was correct - instead you post "mr robinson (blah - cry -
 whine) 'I hope I don't grow up like you'."
    
>    If you are going to slag people off you're going to get slagged
>    back.

 "In a battle of wits......"
    
>     PS Now back to the topic, perhaps? 

 Topic - what topic???  (the moderator must be asleep)

 will

    He woke up.
    
    Drop the slagging match, guys...thanks.
    
    Keith, your ever-friendly moderator

    dag! pron ieder,
    
    sympathiek  aan si pron ieder is having fun
    
    but i think we have forgoten what this notes about
    
    its about zeggan SAW not Liverpool
    
    so lets get back to what its all about !
     you are all a bunch of kiddies (schoft)
    
    martin
    

    naJ,
    
    No Problem
    
    
    nitraM
    ------

    Has anyone got any comments, about UK's No 1
                                       ---------
    
    Martin
    ------

    In  t h e    *fas**__ion of this MOST BIZarre Note
    
    No  C--OMMent
    -------------
    

    I take it no-one knows who and what is No 1
    
    "Pete Waterman and Friends...... Ferry Cross the Mersey"
    
    For the Hillsborough Disaster.    Radio 1 charts
    
    
    Kylie Minogue......Hand on your Heart      Network Charts Ilr Charts
    
    
    
    
    MARTIN
    -------

    
    Re. 66
    
    I knew, I just decided that making a comment was not a good idea.
    
    Mark

    There's a theory being perpetuated that in 10 years time the cynics
    among us will look back at SAW and suddenly see the light, we'll
    wake up to the idea that they really are the '80s equivalent to
    Phil Spector. Frankly thats a load of bollo*ks. They're the Barron
    Knights of the '80s, and thats a generous appraisal believe me.
    The sad (rather nostalgic) fact is, at the other end of this decade
    we could expect The Jam to bound straight into the top three. Now
    we get drivel like Kylie leaping in at number two, cretinous
    'creations' packaged for a tone deaf, stone deaf audience, and SAW
    are doing their utmost to destroy the music business. Call me
    blinkered, call me humourless, but this joke simply isn't funny
    anymore...Stop it.
    
                                   NOW.
    
    Bruce...(Yes i'm back...just when you thought it was safe to read
    the SAW notes), Leeds

>>        we could expect The Jam to bound straight into the top three. Now
>>    we get drivel like Kylie leaping in at number two, cretinous
  
    Well why do you take so much notice of the charts? The charts represent
    the success of big business selling "product" to kiddies. They have
    nothing whatsoever to do with the quality of a piece of music. I
    have never given a toss what's at number 1, nor have I ever worried
    about how my favourite bands were doing in the charts. I certainly
    have never bought a record on the basis of its chart position. I
    know what *I* like and I couldn't care less how many other people
    like it or buy it (and one does not necessarily imply the other!)
                                                             
    Quality music will always endure, there's no need for this anger
    against SAW.
    
    Tony   (Jazz fan)

    
    Did anybody see the programme on CH4 last night, "When the Music's
    over"?  It was sort of documentary on the state of pop music today,
    mixed with a play about ten years into the future.  It didn't really
    work in my opinion as it didn't really know what it was talking
    about.  Any other comments anybody?
    
    By the way, the guy two note before; please don't lift reviews from
    music papers without giving the original writer some mention please?
    
    	Lee.
    

    re .70
    
    True to a point. Chart success does not imply quality.
    
    Sadly ,though some sort of success in selling records (albums or
    singles) is required if a record company is going to stump up money
    for a group to continue.
    
    It's a little unfair to accuse a group of 'selling out' (I know
    no-one here has, it's just an extension of the discussion) to improve
    their commercial (ie Mass market) appeal when THEIR future career
    depends on their record sales. Let's face it, it's their livelihoods
    at stake, not just our musical preferences (and they seem as varied
    as you can get.).
    
    In a perfect world the BEST group would sell the most record, but
    who's to decide who the BEST group is (maybe a note with who you
    think the best group/artist ever was/is and why would be fun)?
    
    The only way a commercial record company can gauge their artists'
    popularity is through record sales and single sales relates very
    closely to radio exposure.
    
    A few years ago I heard Peter Powell wingeing about the number of
    'novelty' records in the chart at that time and saying that they
    should be expelled from the chart. Well, I'd say that there's a
    fair argument for keeping all charity records out of the chart,
    all records by people who've gained any recognition in any other
    field and any compilation album, but then why not exclude any record
    by any band you don't like. It's just as valid.
    
    So, at the end of all this rambling, my point. Reply .69 DOES have
    a point. SAW and similar stuff isn't great, but it's popular and
    so it sells, and what sells is what other record companies try to
    reproduce.
    
    I like some chart music and some I hate, but I have to admit that
    the success and continuation of an artist DOES depend on the number
    of records (singles or albums) that they sell.
    
    Mark

.69�    The sad (rather nostalgic) fact is, at the other end of this decade
.69�    we could expect The Jam to bound straight into the top three. Now
.69�    we get drivel like Kylie leaping in at number two, cretinous
    
    Well, I happen to think that the Jam are/were a load of rubbish, so
    what does that do to your argument? I don't happen to like SAW much
    either - so I don't listen to it.
    
    Keith

    Re .70, Tony - totally agree.
    
    re .72, the point about having to be commercially successful to
    survive - true up to a point, possibly, but many groups, especially
    away from the pop arena, carry on regardless of how much money they
    make out of it (jazzers, Tony?). It's more a matter of being in
    love with the job you do.....
    
    Bob

    MARTIN...Did you buy Never (House Of Love)? Have you got any more
    of their stuff?
    
    Bruce

    Bruce,
    
    Sorry to reply so long, but I haven't been in Uk_music for sometime
    yes I bought the single, but didn't buy anymore material from them.
         
    
    Martin
    ------
    
    

    Here is some new releases on the PWL label, and artists teaming
    up with SAW,
    
    1st on the bandwagon are 'BIG FUN'...'BLAME IT ON THE BOOGIE' with
    there faster version of the Jackson 5's hit.
    
    Cliff Richard 101 singles, and has got a completely different direction,
    the song has very good beat, but still has the old bachelor
    style in it, but with SAW thumping style may have given Cliff another
    No 1, title is called "Just don't have the heart".
                               
    Donna Summer..... "Love's about to change"
    
    
    
    Martin
    -----

    
    
    
    Yup, ol' Cliff's really flipped this time.
    
    He really should quit whilst he's merely a laughing stock.
    
    
    
    Michael
    
    
    

    Like him or not, Cliff must be one of the longest-surviving artists in
    the business (31 years this year).

    I've seen this "band"(?) on MTV and laughed.
    I wonder where SAW got hold of these boys?! 
    Before anyone jumps on me for "slagging off", I buy what I like
    (obviously) and I have bought records by 'Lock-Stock-&-Barrel'.
    This track is just a faster version of the original and is no better
    ,or different.
    I'm sorry but these 3 male bimbos can't sing  , fact.
    They have almost as much stage presence as a pork pie.Banarama (bless
    'em!) do this sort of thing much better.
    
    There is ,however, another cover of this song out at the moment
    by a 'house/rap group which is quite clever. Does anyone know who
    this band is as I missed the credit? 
    
    David

    WHO IS THIS GUY?!
    He can't even spell "Bananarama"!
    
    8*)
    (thought I'd mention that before anyone did)

    Where have you all gone?
    Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings ,re;Big Fun.
    Poor old Cliff, SAW make him sound like JASON!!
      I've noticed that the 'SAW' formula is *very* consistant!
    = Echo on the last word in each line in each verse and always ending
    with a drum machine break to fade at the end of song.
    Can't blame them for using it whilst it works.!
      I'm surprised they haven't got into house/acid more.
    
    David (Wish I could clean up too!!!)

    In the last 83 notes, I saw very few references to Talent, by either
    side. 
    
    Enough said. 
    
    juju
    xxxx
    

    Is ANYONE else getting as P**#ed off as I am with these guys??!!
    I can't be alone surely!
    They are bugging my radio.
    
    Then again I wonder if I should try it with my new band?
    All ya do is lock your computer/sequencer onto the right 'beats-per-
    minute, select a couple samples and stick to them .Then gather up 
    some 'unknowns' to 'sing' over them. We may need a sampler for
    this too to make sure that the same lines in a song sound EXACTLY
    the same!
     = AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    
    Why the hell , with all their equipment, can't they produce something
    that sounds  even remotely different to all their tracks before??
    
    Go on give me a good reason why ????!!!!!!!!!
    
    David.
               (music'snotaformula!)

    Yeah, good point there.  If they have loads of flashy equipment
    a nd a good studio, I guess they must have limited talent for each
    song to sound the same.  There is something in the basic texture
    of thier sound that gets on my nerves, and its in all of the singles.
    
    M

    Simple really, Dave old boy.
    
    Like many big names, they've found a formula that rakes in vast
    amounts of moolah, and they are gonna damn well milk it.
    
    Basically, you can't do a thing about it beyond turning your radio
    off.
    
    Bob

    RE:.87
    
    WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!
    
    What with them AND  Jive -BLOODY- Bunny!!!
    
    DAVID

    
        shouldn't theat be `Jive B****y Bunny'?

    
    I like Jive B****y Bunny.
    
    Now, where's my surf board and flowery shorts! 
    
    Mark :^)

    
    Juke Box Jury a couple of weeks ago.
    
    All the jury slammed Jive Rabbit effort for being talentless gits,
    just in it for the cash. The two rabbits appeared from behind a
    screen and totally agreed with them. I have no quarms with anyone
    "just out for the cash" who recognises it and exploits it.
    
    
    Why don't SAW own up to being dead crap money makers ?
    Surely nobody would disagree ?
    
    
    
    I love you all
    
    Kylie
    
                                              

    I think you'll find that if you read or listen to any interviews
    with Pete Waterman that he is almost defensively proud of the fact
    that they do make loads of money out of a simple formula, and will
    go on to accuse any critics of petty jealousy.
    
    
    
    Smug git!! 8^)
    
    Bob

    I hate SAW and jive-bloody-bunny, but if it really is that easy to make
    money, what are you doing at Digital?

    
    Re .93
    
    Too true, it's very easy to criticise, but not so easy to repeat
    or better.
    
    I can't really see a connection between JBB and SAW, since the former
    are taking someone else records (or bits of 'em) and joining them
    together over a beat (and reminding people of a lot of good old
    records at the same time) whereas SAW are taking their own 
    record and churning it out under different titles! (I wonder where
    they got the first one from?)
    
    JBB seems to have more in common with House music than SAW.

    Da,da,da,da,da,daaaaaa....
    
    Mark
    

    re .93
    
    The point is, Keith, that it is *not* easy to find that magic formula;
    believe me, if it was, my songwriting talents would have gone in
    that direction ages ago! Also, to an (ex!) artist such as myself
    (or for that matter, Andy Partridge of XTC, who says much the same
    thing), there is the question of having to forget about integrity,
    and having to compromise your artistic principles (man)
    
    Bob

    RE;.93
    
    Answer to the "what are you still..." question,,, I'm working on
    that one !!But don't tell anyone.!
    
    RE:.94
    
    SAW dd,d,,dd,,don't sample as such from other records , but apparently
    they whip notes from others and then build new songs around them.
    Pretty much in the same way that "Texas" emulated Ry Cooders'  "Paris-
    -Texas" sound track on "I don't want a lover".
    
    That I don't think is too awful . I just want to hear some different
    'sounds' coming out of my radio first thing in the morning.
                                                  
    David

    
    
    re.93
    
    
    I do actually make quite a few "sovs" and do very little work.
    
    
    I'm a contractor
     

    
    TA

    Bob - I agree! That is probably why music that you and I consider to be
    good is mainly album stuff (is it still called that when you buy it on
    CD?). Oh well..

    
       Hmmmm...very descriptive of every SAW track I've heard Richard!
    

    I must admit I'm not a great lover of SAW music.  I listened to
    Radio 1 on Saturday afternoon, it was quite interesting - explaining
    that the SAW music provides (as previously stated) what the single
    buying public wants.  I also happened to watch the Smash Hits Awards
    on Sunday afternoon.  I must admit also, I'm not a great lover of
    BROS - and wouldn't buy a record - but the lead singer has a great
    voice, and at least he could sing!  It seems to me that a lot of
    SAW produced bands cannot sing, miming to records - which to me,
    is a rip off - when tickets have been purchased.  Sonya, was dreadful
    and Kylie and Jas. weren't much better.  Am I getting old I ask
    myself?? I know, that some SAW bands can sing, but the repetition
    is getting extremely boring.  These are my opinions - and I do not
    wish to affend anyone, apologies if I have.  I must admit that in
    the clubs - the records are not bad to dance to, but next to Luther
    Vandross and Alexander O, they sound pathetic!

>>> Am I getting old I ask myself?? 

	I reckon that this touches on the key to SAW's sucess.  I suspect that
most of their fans are in the 12-16 age group, or at that age 'musically'.
While trying not to be a snob (and not quite suceeding), I can't help feeling
that my own taste in music is much too sophisticated to be able to bear SAW. 
Younger people will generally not have this level of sophistication (I'm not
saying that all older people will) & will therefore appreciate SAW's stuff,
which I consider repetative & bland.  [Don't get me wrong there's nothing 
wrong with being repetative, there's nothing wrong with being bland,...err]

	If the teenagers want to buy this stuff, then I have no problem with
that.  I only hope that we don't get so saturated with SAW-type-dross that we
don't expose our kiddies to some more sophisticated music.  I don't think that
we have yet reached that stage.

	Just some thoughts (really they are :-).

-Brian.

    Had you been in the 12-16 age group now, would you have bought it?
    
    Just (another) thought.
    
    Karina

>>>    Had you been in the 12-16 age group now, would you have bought it?

Karina,

No :-)'s so I'll assume this is a serious question.  The answer is a resounding
"I don't know".  You should have guessed! :-) I suspect that I might have, hard
as it is for me to even contemplate doing it now.  I know that I used to listen
to stuff that I now think is reasonably silly, bland & stupid (- though not
very). It wasn't SAW, but it was the particular type of dross that was popular
at the time. 


-Brian_who_no_longer_thinks_that_Smoke_on_the_water_is_the_best_song_in_the_-
history_of_space_and_time_(gasp!)_but_who_still_thinks_Wombling_Merry_Christmas-
_is_great

You can just call me Brian.
P.S.  Now is a good time to insult me as I got my ticket for Deacon Blue over
the weekend & would smile at anything.

    Brian -
    
    This is where I quietly withdraw from NOTES forever. I realise by now I
    just do not have the talent to ask meaningful questions or start
    profound discussions. :-)
    
    I just wondered why it is this age group that buys 'dross' and why
    people seem to turn away from popular music "as they get older" :-).
    There is no doubt a very simple explanation I would just like to hear
    it anyway.
    
    Karina 

Karina,

>>>    This is where I quietly withdraw from NOTES forever. I realise by now I
>>>    just do not have the talent to ask meaningful questions or start
>>>    profound discussions. :-)

	Hey, be gentle with me.  I break easily.  

>>>    I just wondered why it is this age group that buys 'dross' and why
>>>    people seem to turn away from popular music "as they get older" :-).
>>>    There is no doubt a very simple explanation I would just like to hear
>>>    it anyway.

	Yes, there is a very simple explanation (42), which is undoubtedly 
incorrect.  But, you *did* ask for my opinion, so here it is:  er, where was I?

	I reckon that with stuff like SAW, there are very simple & very easy 
to understand rhythms & melodies.  Every if there's a drum machine pounding out
16 interweaving rhythms, the rhythm of the *whole* song is straightforward (,
and hence easy to dance to).  I hope that I'm getting my point across.

	The music itself I don't understand very well, but I do feel that it's
very simple.  The music says everything that has to be said & again it's very 
straightforward.  Let's face it SAW music is sold primarily as DANCE music.  
It is about as unsophisticated as you can get, music & lyrical content.  If you
disagree with this then I must be living on the planet Zog, which has been made
to closely resemble the earth :-) [There I actually put a :-) in, I *hate* doing
that].  

	Back to the point (ha ha), I reckon that younger people can live with
& indeed appreciate the lack of sophistication in SAW's music.  Their young,
but fertile minds can ENCOMPASS all of the music & probably think of 
embellishments to it.  I think that "encompass" is a key word.  They have a full
understanding of the music that they are listening to.  As their musical 
experience & intellectual powers, then they can move onto more spohisticated
music, that will demand more from the listener, but also repay them more.

Must dash my boss is calling. 

-Brian. 

I never heard such rubbish as .107 in all my life.

-B.

    re .108  I think you're being a bit unfair, it was a brave try.
     Tho' i think it was a bit wide of the mark...I think catchy and
    recognisable tunes has a lot to do with it.  Personally, as I got
    older, I listened to more R + B, which definitely isn't more
    sophisticated than what I used to listen to when I was 14.  (The
    word sophistication conjures up horrible visions of Dire Straits
    compact discs...)
    
    Mikef

    The SAW artists are also unashamedly out to capture the interest of the
    teenies - for example, Brother Beyond, Sonya, Sinitta et al are all
    absolutely at home on the pages of Smash Hits and Jackie - the music is
    just one aspect of their appeal.
    
    If they have any.
    
    
    Rod

    
    
    I thought .107 summed it up pretty well actually.
    
    
    
    
    Michael
    

    Are SAW (i.e. their `sound') really as bad as those 70's teenybop groups
    discussed in another note; Mud, Pilot etc

    To paraphrase Jesus: "The teenagers will always be with you..."

    - Tim

    P.S. Blessed be the Greeks!



    Well they've been getting bad press lately...

    Tim, you're coming over soon, right?
    
    At least you won't have to listen to SAW-stuff while you're here.  
    We don't get much of it here....only Rick Astley in very small doses,
    I'm disappointed to say.
    
    Sue

    re .107
    
    Thanks for the answer. Don't get me wrong, I can't STAND SAW - that's
    why I wonder why people buy it and why it's so popular in that
    particular age group. 
    
    :-) (I've done it too now)
    
    Karina

    I don't know what the answer is , but I remember when I was 12-14
    and there was quite a lot of dross about then (though thankfully
    no SAW) , but I was listening to a range of music , from ELP to
    Blondie and the Boomtown Rats . 
    
    Maybe I was an early developer (none of this music was liked by
    either of my parents) but there must be kids of that age now who
    explore a bit . It's not *just* teenyboppers who are buying SAW,
    it's also older teenagers and early twenties .
    
    But nowadays there seems to be an almost total swamping of
    inexperienced pretty boys and girls who have a couple of hits ,
    rarely if ever sing live , and bring music down to its lowest
    denominator .
    
    Maybe I just remember the music I liked , but few bands I remember
    were purely studio bands

>>       But nowadays there seems to be an almost total swamping of
>>       inexperienced pretty boys and girls who have a couple of hits ,
>>       rarely if ever sing live...

    Hey! Hey! we're The Monkees! The sixties pop TV serial by the same name
    featured four lovable dumplings who couldn't sing, play, act or write,
    (all except Mike Nesmith that is). And teenagers and people in their
    early twenties (I'm sure!) went W-I-L-D about them. A marketing
    bulls-eye from drawing board to poster on the wall. If there's smt that
    you don't need, you can be sure the Yanks will sell it to you (-;).

    They were lucky Neil Diamond was around (when he could still churn out
    a few reasonable songs that is).

    - Tim    

    Its very interesting reading everyones thoughts, for sure the
    kids are buying this stuff, but are they at the moment being offered
    a real alternative?  I remember the Bay City Rollers etc. they were
    dreadful (I never like them), but they were very successful - Why?
    I think also, that mums and dads encourage the kids to like it,
    perhaps becuase Jas. is a clean cut young chap and Kylie is a decent
    type girl???  I'm 22, but from the age of 14 I was listening to
    the Doors (Jim Morrison on my wall), my parents were horrified??
     This is just a thought- afterall I think my folks would rather
    have had Jas and Kylie blasting out of my Hi-Fi than Jimi Hendrix.
    Also, most are influenced by our elders (I was influenced by
    my brothers and sister).

    
    The REAL problem is that kids simply do not know that alternitative
    music exists. I did not discover The Marychain and others till about
    4 years ago. Till then I only had my police records and a few other
    records, as I felt very much out of touch with the general level
    of the charts. I am 21 now, and spent much of my time suffering
    chart dross. It was only cos I had an uncle 8 years older than me
    who showed me the way with Ultravox and the undertones, elvis costello
    and Billy Bragg, and some indie stuff in general, that I found music
    I could identify with.
    
    Even at the age of 18, my friends generally thought, (most of them
    still do) that I was "A bit Weird !" 
    
    juju
    xxxx
    

    re .118
    
    The problem cannot be that kids don't know that alternative music
    exists - walk into any record shop , and there are rows and rows
    of music other than SAW / teenybop . I wasn't shown different music
    when I was 13 - I heard the odd track on (gasp!) radio 1 , and they
    still don't play purely chart music now . From there , I looked
    out for LPs by the groups I had heard , and if I liked it , I bought
    more - I got into the Doors , ELP , Peter Gabriel , The Who , Blue
    Oyster Cult et al at this age , and I still like the music now .
    
    I suppose I too was considered a bit weird at school , waffling
    on about groups most other kids had never heard of , maybe that
    puts today's kids off trying to listen to these "alternative groups"
    but , as I said , I'm sure there are still some who 'dare' to be
    different , and good luck to them .
    
    I really can't see the groups of fifteen years from now citing Kylie
    and Jason , or Rick Astley as their influences somehow .
    
    
    PETE

    Re: 119
    
    Does your personal name have anything to do with Blue Oyster Cult??

    Absolutely . The title of a very good 73ish album .
    
    PETE

    Great.... Hadn't listened to it for ages, I had a great time last
    night, but my head hurts this morning.... Thanks......Is there a
    Blue Oyster Cult note (?) perhaps we should start one...
    
    Sarah
    
    8-)

    I've never heard of these guy's. Cept the one in the middle rings a
    bell. Naww. Sounds like quite a mixed reaction. If it's anything like
    Rick Astley you can keep it.
    
    Frank (no relation)Aitken
    

    Rick Astley was the best artist they ever had!  The only artist with
    integrity!  He left them.  He could sing live.  He wrote his own songs. 
    I hated him, but not as much as the rest.
    
    matty

    Yeah, and look where it got him! Whatever happened to ol' Rick? If
    you've been around this conference for a while, you'll remember that
    the SAW empire, and Rick Astley in particular, came in for *A LOT* of
    stick.
    
    Well, I predicted back then that Rick would be nowhere and someone else
    would be getting the stick....
    
    
    N. O. Stradamus.

    I read in the paper last week that Rick Astley is ready to make
    a come back - but not under the wing of SAW - apparently his new
    company bought out his contract from SAW and are preparing to
    unleash Ricky boy on us but this time with a more 'raunchier'
    routine - out goes the frankenstein hair cut and bland suits
    and in comes longer hair and leather gear!!!!  Sounds like a
    bit of a head banger to me;-)
    
    Anyway we shall see..............
    
    Mazzer
    

    
    Don't say that Rick Astley is gonna try and give the likes of George 
    Michael and Kevin Page a run for their money!
    
    It doesn't bear thinking about!!

    
    	Re last few.
    	
    	Is this Rick (with the silent P) Astley you're on about here?
    
    
    		John A.
    

    
    Yup, the  very same 8^)

    Yes, tis he.  He who has the distinction of being as talented as
    Shirley Bassey when it comes to belting out those `oh-so-rich-vocals'.
    This is a widely accepted fact. ;-) ;-)
    
    matty

  Found to my suprise the other day that I owned a Stock-Aitken-Waterman '45
  and didn't even know it. I have to say its pretty damn good too..

  "Love is War" by Brilliant (circa 1985-ish)

  Dave

    I was wondering since being away from the notes for a while, why
    has this topic dried up so much?. 8^).
    
    Is it because I have been away from the notes for such a long time,
    or that Pete Waterman is not on the telly anymore?.
    
    
    Marti

errr....well, it's like this, you see.  It appears that most noters in here at 
the moment aren't exactly "in" to SAW-type stuff.  Thankfully, SAW appear to 
have split, and Pete Waterman has disappeared up his own arse.

hth,
matt

    Hhahhahhahaaaaa 8-)))))
    
    I guess we have waited 5 years afterall, they seem to have spoilt
    a few artists dreams, I was wondering if Rick Astley is still
    in the music biz or not?.
    
    Martin
    
    (On looking back on my previous notes in 1989, gosh how embarrassing!_)

    
    Most of the SAW artists left or were moved on when Pete Waterman became
    even more of a Fat northern git than he was already. Stock and Aitken
    left the factory a couple of years ago and Pete Waterman had a huge
    bust up with Tilly Rutherford soon after.  This meant that any
    credibility that Pete W had (which wasn't much) disappeared.  Tilly was
    popular with the artists (even though he is a fat git aswell.)
    
    For the last two years PWL's only going concern has been Slamm who
    failed to chart with 7 singles with massive airplay, PWL's songwriting
    team have all gone off to better jobs with other producers and the
    producers have all stopped working for Pete.  
    
    PWL has made some headway on the conntinent with dance mixes of various
    old numbers but they arerunning at a huge loss at the mo.
    
    Tilly Rutherford on the other hand is responsible for the likes of
    Rednex etc. and Stock and Aitken are still responsible for most of the
    production in the teeny bop industry either directly or via their
    company.
    
    Nigel