Conference marvin::uk_music

    the album is due in july.even as you read this,the re-released version
    of Atmosphere is racing up the charts,34 this week!
    
    Ill try to find a track listing for next week.
    
        transmission over.
    
        mike fiddler

    
    July it is.  July 4th, to be specific.
    
    Ian!

	Great!!! Thanks!!!

	Why a reissue? Is it 7" or 12"? 
	Same sleeve? B-side?

	Indie charts or "regular"?

	Thanx,
	Ed	(bet you didn't expect that many questions about a single!)

    
    the Re-released `Atmosphere' has a different, though typically factory
    minimimalism white sleeve.  On the B-side is a live version of that
    other great one `Transmission' and on the CD single version there
    is a slightly speeded up version of Love will tear us apart which
    originally appeared on the 12' B-side of the original.  This may
    be on the vinyl version but I'm not sure.
    
    Whilst on the subject of `Love will tear us apart', The Swans have
    just done a rather groovy little cover of this classic.  Well worth
    a listen.
    
    	Lee.
    

	The live version of Transmission not being from "STILL"?

	The 7" of "Love..." has a second version, I guess speeded up.

	Who else does this song?

	I know Grace Jones does "She's Lost Control"
		Paul Young (?) does "Love..."

	anyone else?

	[Last year New Order and Echo and the Bunnymen toured together
	and rumour was that they'd do some Joy Division tunes. When I
	saw them (near Boston, USA) they didn't - but they did "Love..."
	in TBC (The Big City or New York for the unitiated)...]

	Get me out of this cow-town!  :-)

    
    re: .4
    
    I picked up the Swans CD "Love Will Tear Us Apart" at the weekend
    on your recommendation Lee, and you're right!  The acoustic version
    of the song is marvellous.
    
    Ian!

    
    Wonderful.  It would appear, gentle JD fans, that the release of
    "Substance" has been postponed by one week (according to Our Price
    records in Basingstoke, anyway).  The reason?  Apparently (in OP's
    opinion) the distributor (PRT perhaps?) may have decided that to
    release two potential million sellers in one week would be too much
    to cope with, so Joy Division lost out to.....I almost cannot bring 
    myself to write this.....Kylie Minogue.
    
    >spit< >spit<
    
    Ian!
     

    RE: Atmosphere
    
    Anyone know if this version of "Atmosphere" is the version that
    appeared on the B-side of *very* limited edition Sordide Sentimental 
    single "Dead Souls"?
    
    Aarrgh!!! After all these years of tracking down hard-to-find Joy
    Division material, they go and collect it all on LP!  :^)
    
    Has this collection hit the stores yet?  Does anyone out there have
    a song-list?
    
    Also, the speeded-up version of "Love Will Tear Us Apart" appeared
    along with "These Days" on the flip-side of both the 7" and the 12" 
    releases of "Love Will Tear Us Apart".
    
    - Dave
    

	Basically what I heard was ALL the singles...

	Going all the way back to "An Ideal For Living" E.P.,
	including "Transmission", "Komachino" flexi-disk,
	"Love...", etc.

	Nothing beats the real thing. I'm happy to have it all
	packaged (when it comes out)!

	Ed

    
.8�    appeared on the B-side of *very* limited edition Sordide Sentimental 
.8�    single "Dead Souls"?

    I remember hearing that many years ago on John Peel, what a brilliant
    song!...my fave JD track.
    Did anyone else out there get a chance to see JD play?
        
    Si_whos_following_this_with_great_interest.
    
    

    I saw them in Manchester - I think it was the latter end of 1978.
    
    The concert was amazing - then again, what would you expect from
    JD - a brilliant band !
    
    Dave_who's_waiting_eagerly_for_the_compilation_to_be_released
    
    

    I thought the 12 inch of Atmosphere (re-release) had Sound Of Music
    on the B-side,plus one other track which I can't remember,but it
    wasn't a live Transmission.
    What do people think of the video?
    The compilation is being released next monday (11/7).The cassette
    version is a double,with the B-sides included.I wish that they 
     would put the B-sides out on vinyl,same for the New Order compilation.

    At Last!    "Substance" has been released today.    
    
    Track List:
    		Warsaw
    		Leaders Of Men
    		Digital
    		Autosuggestion
    		Transmission
    		She's Lost Control
    		Incubation
    		Dead Souls
    		Atmosphere
    		Love Will Tear Us Apart
    
    		(plus, on CD and cassette)
    		No Love Lost
    		Failures
    		Glass
    		From Safety To Where
    		Novelty
    		Komakino
    		These Days             
    
    						Ian!
                                                    

    Cheers,
    
    Dave

    Will this be released outside the UK, perchance?
    
    /joe

    Whats this about a video?
    	What form does it take? Isn't all this alot of hype from factory
    records, or am I just being to cynical (having said that it does
    sound an attractive collection - but where is Isolation?).
    
    		Steve.

Question:

	On the New Order E.P. '81-'82 there appears a song called "Mesh"
	with a phrase:

		"What do they want with me
		 nobody knows
		 nobody even tries to find out."

	On SUBSTANCE (second CD) there is a song with the same name
	different music and different words. A different song. Here
	is an extract:

		"Once out of reach
		 we never speak
		 we never compromise."


I think one of these is "Cries and Whispers" from the Ceremony 12" which
I don't have. Can anyone help me clarify this? Anyone have a New Order
songbook?

Thanx,
Ed

Picked up  "Here  are  the young men" (JD video) and the brand new New Order
video  "Substance"  today. "Substance" was on sale for $14.95 (Tower Boston)
but  it  only  contains  about  40 minutes worth of stuff. It includes "Blue
Monday  1988",  "Confusion",  "Touched  By  the  Hand of God", "True Faith",
"Bizarre  Love  Triangle"  and "The Pefect Kiss". (Hopefully I didn't forget
any).

Supposedly the  JD video contains the "Love Will Tear Us Apart" video at the
end  but I can't confirm this yet. This video has 13 songs credited and cost
twice what the other one did.

Ed

(Reprinted from the Boston Globe, 1/18/90)

VARIOUS ARTISTS
LIKE A GIRL, I WANT YOU TO KEEP COMING

Giorno Poetry Systems, Rough Trade

Out of the blue comes this nine-track compilation of avant-garde rock, poetry
and diatribe, produced by John Giorno and Peter Wright. This is no mainstream
pop-puff project or celebrity singalong: It's touch and angry throughout, from
New Order's gorgeous and terse rendition of Velvet Underground's "Sister Ray",
to William Burroughs' articulate rant against the "drug" war, to David Byrne's
subtle and sad "Song for the Trees." Side 2 boasts newly-melodic thrashers Live
Skull, Giorno and band and ex-Blag Flagger Henry Rollins also, the ultra-
aggravating vulgarian Karen Finley, but them's the breaks. There's no specific
"message" here, just the creative firepower of a diverse slice of the late-'80s
underground world. The album works as music, as politics and, with luck, as
fundraiser for the AIDS Treatment Project. It's smart; it rocks; it abrades.
Available through Giorno Poetry Systems, 222 Bowery, N.Y., N.Y. 10012.

Ed

    Peter Wright ?? That's not the infamous `Spycatcher' (banned book in
    the U.K. for quite a while recently) man is it ?? Probably not...

    - Tim
    

Don't know...BTW:  I'll be writing in finding out prices and if available on
CD...Ed

    Yes thanks. It doesn't compare to the original, IMO
    
    Bob

    Is it worse than JD's version on Still?
    
    
    matty_who_wasn't_born_when_the_Velvet_Underground_were_(I_think)

    Oh, sorry Matty, I thought that was the version you meant. I haven't
    heard the NO version, but I'd like to.
    
    Bob, getting confused again.
    
    p.s. NME Manchester feature, quotes....
    
    Joy Division - less crap version of Warsaw
    New Order    - disco version of JD

    I prefer the Warsaw stuff to some of the JD stuff.  `No Love Lost' is
    my favourite.  I like the rawness, the harder edge and the production
    on the drums.  It's a pity that Steve Morris uses drum machines
    nowadays.
    
    
    matty

Hi again,

The CD  of  _STILL_  is (so far) only released in Japan. Thanks to Yoseff, I
now have a copy!!

Here are some interesting tidbits:

	. The album was originally a double album, the CD is too even though
	  the total time is 72 minutes...

	. The live record contained an "extra" track, not listed "Twenty-Four
	  Hours", it's *NOT* included on the CD.

	. The "lyrics" are included, for instance, did you know that "Ceremony"
	  is an instrumental! Most of the words are wrong also!!!!

The catalogue  number  is  CY-4205->6 and it should cost you about $32.50 if
you can find it!

Ed

    `Still' is being re-released & on CD
    
    
    matty

    RE .17
    
    On the Everythings Gone Green 12", the B side holds two tracks - Mesh
    and Cries and Whispers.  The track credited on this as Cries and
    Whispers appears on Substance as Mesh, the other track doesn't appear
    at all. (No great loss).  Typo or whatever, I don't know.
    
    Stephen and Gillian are about to put out some stuff as 'The other two'. 
    The first release, a single called Tasty Fish, is out soon.  Heard it
    on the radio last night, and it sounds quite good, not too different to
    the last NO album, but with Gillian singing.  Surprisingly, she can
    actually sing!  It slips into sub-Kylie territory now and then, but the
    old NO dark underbelly drags it out.  Good stuff.
    
    Mikef

>    RE .17
>    
>    On the Everythings Gone Green 12", the B side holds two tracks - Mesh
>    and Cries and Whispers.  The track credited on this as Cries and
>    Whispers appears on Substance as Mesh, the other track doesn't appear
>    at all. (No great loss).  Typo or whatever, I don't know.

Mike, are you closing up all loose ends before you check out or what? :-)

Ed

    
    Did anyone watch the Punk retrospective on Channel 4 a couple of
    Fridays ago ? I thought the Joy Division track (Shadowplay) was far
    and away the best thing on it (although it was pretty much the only
    track that wasn't taken from live concert footage).
    
    The thing that always surprises me when I see conert footage from that
    era is how few actual *punks* there were in the audiences.
    
    Trevor

    
    I don't remember Joy Division ever being a punk band!
    
    Mark

    Yep, I saw those programmes too. Ah, them were't days.
    
    Yours, tearfully nostalgic,
    
    Bob
    
    p.s. 'Greatest Rock and Roll Band in the World', the Clash? Weren't
    they incredibly thin and scratchy sounding? I think they maybe suffered
    from trying to play everything too fast, unlike the Pistols, who, by
    slowing things down a little bit became much more *powerful*. Oh well.

Greenbee! It's Greenbee! 

I saw that prog and enjoyed it. I would hardly call Iggy Pop part of the punk
revolution thingy, although undeniably he contributed. That pratting about
with a tail tied to his bum, and that self-conscious New York art-rock - no
thank you.

They all looked so young... (apart from Iggy Pop).


Rod

    Most of that programme was culled from a longer one that was shown
    about 4 years ago, called 'The Way They Were'. Omissions from the
    original were things like the first ever TV appearance of Elvis
    Costello (solo version of 'Alison'), old clips of Blondie, Ian Dury,
    more bits of John Cooper Clarke, etc., and a classic live rendition of
    'Whole Wide World' by Wreckless Eric.
    
    Agreed, Iggy wasn't exactly part of the 'punk movement', but, like the
    New York Dolls he was definitely an influence.
    
    Bob
    
    Was it just me, or did Penetration come across as totally fake punks? I
    remember seeing them once or twice, and they always used to get very
    tedious after three or four songs.

    
    I never liked Penetration at the time (Fnarr, Fnarr).
    
    If we're talking about fake punks, how about The Rich Kids (Featuring
    Glenn Matlock Out Of The Sex Pistols), who were on the D.O.A. film the
    following week ! Terrible.
    
    Trevor

    Yes indeed; mind you, it follows that at least one of them was a fake
    punk - Glenn Matlock was apparently thrown out of the Pistols for
    admitting to an admiration for Paul McCartney's bass playing. Such punk
    credentials, huh? Still, I s'pose even the most hardened rebels (ha)
    must have some set of conventions.
    
    Cynically sneering,
    
    Bobby Rotten.

    Actually I quite like "Ghosts of Princess Towers" (real anarchic 
    title that one) by the Rich Kids. As for Matlock being slung out 
    of the Pistols, I'm sure McClaren had a hand in that, I mean, he
    probably saw the potential in having someone like Mr Vicious in the
    band upping the outrage quota and the record sales as a result. Just
    a thought, mind.
    
    Baz Vom
    
    
    

    
    (I've taken the liberty of re-titling .0 to make this into a generic
    New Order & Joy Division note, because there doesn't seem to be a New
    Order note as such.)
    
    Anyway, I got "Republic" on Saturday. I think it's pretty good,
    although a bit blander than their previous stuff. Someone commented in
    another note that Hook's bass-playing is not at all obvious in the mix,
    and I'd agree with that. There's a lot of heavy synthesised bass, but
    very little of that characteristic New Order twangy stuff.
    
    Trevor

    
    I refuse to buy it on principle - the marketting has been totally over
    the top - especially the New Order day on Radio one. I'm surprise I
    didn't see them on children's TV on a saturday morning. Maybe it's time
    for the band to follow Curtis........
    
    Paul                        

    There's another New Order day on MTV on Sunday, I think.

    Goldy.

    Has the marketing really been over the top?  Maybe, by NOs history, but
    they have played live on tv plenty of times in the past.  I don't know
    if the NO day was thier idea, I'd have thought it was R1s.  I didn't
    actually hear it though.  I don't suppose they put out any live stuff
    (there is a really interesting half hour live set they did in the BBC
    basement on a rock-day thing back in 85 or so, which would be really
    intersting to see again).
    
    STill don't like the album much tho'...rumour has it they are
    headlining one nght at Reading Fest this year, if the promoters can get
    it together in time.
    
    Mikef

    
    The marketing was probably due to the move to London records from the
    now deceased Factory. I didn't catch much of the R1 New Order day, but
    what I heard was fairly vomit inducing - competitions to win the album,
    the members of the band saying witty things etc etc. 
    
    Call me a miserable git, but I prefer the New Order that used to play
    live with their backs to the audience or make miserable remarks about
    Ian Curtis to the cleverly marketed 'poppy' type band they've turned
    into.
    
    Paul

    I thnk I agree - I much prefer Brotherhood era to the new stuff,
    though I don't begrudge them thier success, they are a good band. They
    are probably about to become the new Rolling Stones tho'.  Our old
    heroes are all past it.  Who are the new heroes?
    
    I remember the first time I saw NO, in Brum in83, the day PCL was
    released.  They were supported by James (!), and before they came on,
    thet played a long intro tape, which seemed mainly to be an interview
    with Elvis Presely, realy cheesing the audience off. They strolled on
    vaguely, then played a blinding version of Love will Tear us Apart,
    followed by a long and rambling early version of Confusion (way before
    it was released).
    
    Happy Days.  I'm old and boring now tho'.
    
    Mikef

Re.41

Paul,

Don't you think you're being a bit hard ?  It's the music that counts after 
all, not the way that the public get to hear it. You've go to remember that CD's
cost quite a lot of money in the UK.  Fewer and fewer people are buying albums
simply because they liked the last one by the same band.  They are more likely
to wait until they've heard a few tracks on the radio or whatever.

I may be wrong, but I think your motives are like a lot of people who 
enjoyed liking a band that not *too* many people knew about - the fact that 
your taste in music was a little more exclusive than your average record-
buying punter.  The fact is that a good band will eventually become very 
popular, however long it takes . REM are good example of this phenomena. They 
have consistently released good records for years but now that their albums
go straight in at number 1, a lot of "trendies" say that they no longer like
them, despite having followed them for the best part of ten years.

I think you should reconsider your decision not to buy. The album is very good
although not as good as Movement or PC&L's (In my opinion).  Don't let the fact
that buying a New Order album is not as trendy as it once was put you off.


Mark

I saw New Order in, I think, 1983 and they were terrible. I wanted them to
be good and they weren't. I think their albums have got better over time:
PCL is patchy but Technique is a very solid album (played it the other day).
I'm looking forward to hearing 'Republic'. And if they manage to make a 
packet of money out of it, good luck to them.


Rod

    
    I've never seen them, but they are supposed to be extremely variable
    live - either brilliant or crap. I think this is not unconnected with
    their reputation for phenomenal substance abuse.

    >reputation for phenomenal substance abuse.
    
    No, not really.  Its because they never used to be able to play thier
    instruments live.  The live shows have become a lot better over the
    years.  
    
    Mikef

    > Fewer and fewer people are buying albums simply because they liked 
      the last one by the same band.  They are more likely to wait until 
      they've heard a few tracks on the radio or whatever.
    
    Someone pointed out a good reason for this the other day that just
    hadn't occurred to me (OK, so I'm stupid) - the CD format has made people
    unlikely to go out and buy singles anymore (another reason for the crap
    "Top 40" also) - they'd rather wait for the album.  Hence, as you say,
    marketing of the album has to be more hard-hitting and album tracks
    have to get radio play - I remember a time when you never heard a track
    on the radio which was not a single release.
    
    Somewhat off the point, I know, but worth pointing out
    (you can move this if you want, moderator!)
    
    Cheers,
    
    Debs
    
    

    I saw New Order when they toured with the Bunnymen.  Thank god the
    Bunnymen played first that night because New Order was so boring that
    we ended up walking out in the middle of their set.  It's better to    
    just close yr eyes & listen to the albums really loudly & pretend yr at
    a concert.
    
    -Vicki
    
    PS.  Mikef:  This is kinda bugging me:  It's "their" not "thier."

    sorry Vicki - my hands move faster than my brain.  Which is useful
    sometimes ;-)
    
    Mikef

    Oh Dear...New Order at Reading Festival this weekend...I may just wake
    up Sunday Morning, shout 'bugger', and rush south to see them.  Anyone
    else out there going on Sunday?
    
    Republic seems to have been nominated for album of the year in the BPI
    awards?  Or maybe it was something else I was looking it in Our Price.
    
    Shall I go or shan't I...oh dear....
    
    Mikef

    
    Touching From a Distance - by Deborah Curtis.  This is the story of her
    life with Ian Curtis.  For anyone interested in either Ians work, or
    the self destructing nature of some people in the music industry, this
    is an essential read.  It's not the greatest work of literature, and
    you have to remember that it is Deborahs story of her life with Ian,
    not a Joy Division biog.  
    
    It reveals a lot about Ians background, and how he was at home.  I
    wouldnt describe it as a 'total hatchet job', but it does in some way
    despel the myth of him as a tortured genius.  He was a bit of a prat
    towards his wife sometimes, although she still loves/loved him a great
    deal.  
    
    It also contains a discography and copies of his lyrics, plus some
    unpublished lyrics.
    
Mikef