Conference koolit::disney

        The WDW annual passport allows unlimited use of the 3 theme
        parks during normal operating hours.  In addition, you get the
        following:

        - unlimited use of the WDW transportation system.
        - free parking.
        - ability to make advance dinner reservations at EPCOT/MGM
          (same as resort guest).
        - ability to purchase a River Country/Discovery Island adder for
          a very low price.
        - ability to reserve on-site hotels for special low rates when
          specials are offered.

        Each passport is only good for a single person, and has a
        photo similar to a drivers license.  Passports are not
        transferable, and are valid for 1 year from the date the photo
        is taken.  When we were using them for admission into the
        parks, the photos were usually checked.

        WDW annual passports are not valid for special, extra cost
        events.

        Renewal of an annual passport is cheaper than the initial
        purchase.  When you purchase or renew an annual passport, you
        get a ticket which you turn in to obtain the passport.  This
        ticket is not dated, and has no expiration date.  When you
        have your picture taken, you surrender the ticket and you
        receive your annual passport.  The expiration date is one year
        from the date your picture is taken.  You must purchase your
        renewal ticket prior to the expiration date of your annual
        passport to get the lower rate, however, you do not need to
        have your picture taken at that time.  The new annual passport
        will be valid for 1 year starting on the day your picture is
        taken.  I believe you can purchase the renewal tickets by
        mail.

        The River Country/Discovery Island adder can be purchased if
        you already have a WDW annual passport.  This allows unlimited
        use of River Country and Discovery Island during normal
        operating hours.  If you plan to go the these places, the
        annual pass is a good deal as it costs about the same a single
        day RC/DI combination ticket. The expiration date will be
        stamped the same as your annual passport, regardless of when
        you purchase the adder.  This adder is a cardboard ticket, but
        they will laminate it for you at the same place the pictures
        are taken if you desire .  The RC/DI adder does not have a
        picture, but you are supposed to show your regular WDW annual
        passport along with the RC/DI adder.  This allows them to
        check your picture, and check that the names are the same.

        I do not know anything about the Typhoon Lagoon annual
        passport.

        The current rates for annual passports to WDW are as follows:

    WDW annual passport (MK, EPCOT, MGM):
    -------------------------------------

    			Normal price			MKC price
    			------------			---------

    Adult		$180 plus tax ($190.05)	    $165 plus tax ($174.15)
    Child		$155 plus tax ($163.65)	    $145 plus tax ($153.05)

    Adult renewal	?			    $145 plus tax ($152.90)
    Child renewal	?			    $125 plus tax ($131.85)



    River Country & Discovery Island adder:
    ---------------------------------------

    Adult		$15 plus tax ($15.90)
    Child		$11 plus tax ($11.66)



    Typhoon Lagoon annual passport:
    -------------------------------

    Adult or child	$75 plus tax ($79.50)
    

    
    	To answer the origianl question of can you buy an annual passport
    	at a Disney store the answer is no.  When I inquired I ws told
   	that they are issued only from the guest relations folks in
    	Orlando.  Seems that you have to have your picture taken and
    	stores are can not handle this.
    
    	dan

    re:  150.1
    
>>        Renewal of an annual passport is cheaper than the initial
>>        purchase.  
    
    This is true only if the prices don't rise... ;^>  What is true is that
    the renewal rate will be less than the price of a new annual passport.
    
    --Jay
    
    

      
    
    Jim,
    
      A Quick question. Where did here about the room special and when?
    
      
    
    
    
      Thanks in advance
    
    
      Steve

I found out about the special from note 135.3, just a couple of weeks before my
vacation.  This conference is the best place to find out about such things.

/Jim Pappas

As an update to note 150.1:

I just called the WDW information number and they now have additional upgrades
for annual passport owners:

As I reported earlier, they have a River Country and Discovery Island annual
pass upgrade.  At the time of my note, this was the only upgrade available.
They have now added an upgrade for Pleasure Island, and another upgrade for
Typhoon Lagoon.  I will post the prices in note 96.  (The official price note).

    I've just renewed my Annual Passports, and experienced a crack in 
    the usually flawless Disney organisation. I rang, identified 
    myself as a MKC member, asked to renew my passports, and once 
    again confirmed that they would only become operational from the 
    day that the photo's are taken. So far, so good. 
    
    It then went rapidly downhill!. They couldn't validate my 
    Mastercard, because it was a UK issue. The computer couldn't 
    handle my UK Postcode because it didn't map onto US Zipcodes. The 
    computer couldn't handle my phone number because it didn't map 
    onto US Area codes. Each of these required a period of silence 
    while "I just consult my supervisor!". Eventually the transaction 
    was complete, I was given the total charge, and rang off.
    
    I did a quick calculation, and realised that the total charge 
    equated to 3 children and 1 adult, not the other way round!
    
    I rang back, and gave the reference number for the transaction. At 
    first the computer wouldn't allow access because the file was 
    still being processed. Eventually we got in, and the total on the 
    record was for 3 adults and 1 child at the regular price, not the 
    MKC price - Completely different from the price I was given. The 
    record was corrected (supposedly!) and I am waiting for the 
    physical evidence.
    
    The moral of the story - Do your sums first, know what you expect 
    to pay, and double check each piece of information before 
    proceeding. (Perhaps Disney should invest in a faster DEC TP 
    system too?)
    
    The only useful piece of information I got was that the 'annual 
    adders' for TL, RC/DI and PI can now only be bought at the time of 
    redeeming the Annual Passport certificates, you cannot pay in 
    advance and get certificates for them.
    
    Regards,
    
    Mike_who_hates_computers_even_more_now.

    I thought I'd clarify a couple of things about renewing passports.
    
    First, they don't send anything in the mail to remind you to renew
    (confirmed by a call to the WDW information number).  I guess you're
    supposed to automatically know what to do.
    
    Second, you can renew up to 30 days after the expiration date.  I
    guess you're supposed to know that too.
    
    Third, you are supposed to go to the Guest Relations window at any
    of the three theme parks.  I imagine that's enough to discourage
    some renewals.
    
    Fourth, if you aren't able to get to the theme parks, you can renew
    over the phone - have a credit card ready.  I don't know what happens
    if you don't have a credit card.
    
    On the interesting side, I was surprised that they don't need the
    names or numbers on the passports being renewed.  I wonder if it's
    possible to just buy a renewal without buying an original pass (not
    that I'd advocate doing this!)?  Do they ask to see your old passes
    when they take your pictures?

RE:      <<< Note 150.8 by CLOSET::AAARGH::LOWELL "Grim Grinning Ghosts..." >>>

        Ruth,

        When I bought our annual passports, I received a booklet that
        describes most of the following.  I've thrown it away so I
        cannot check every point.


>    I thought I'd clarify a couple of things about renewing passports.
>    
>    First, they don't send anything in the mail to remind you to renew
>    (confirmed by a call to the WDW information number).  I guess you're
>    supposed to automatically know what to do.

        I cannot remember if this point is covered in the booklet,
        although I have to admit that I expected to be notified by
        phone or (more likely) mail when the passports expired.

>    
>    Second, you can renew up to 30 days after the expiration date.  I
>    guess you're supposed to know that too.
>    

        This is covered in the booklet.

>    Third, you are supposed to go to the Guest Relations window at any
>    of the three theme parks.  I imagine that's enough to discourage
>    some renewals.

        You are not *supposed* to go the Guest Relations, it is just
        one of the places you can go to get the renewals.  

        Disney definitely does not want to discourage you from
        renewing your annual passports.  The reason they offer a
        cheaper renewal is to encourage you to renew, and then make
        more trips and spend a lot more money.  Admission price is
        just one way they get your money, and if they can get you to
        spend more days there, or to make an extra trip, they make
        more money.

>    
>    Fourth, if you aren't able to get to the theme parks, you can renew
>    over the phone - have a credit card ready.  I don't know what happens
>    if you don't have a credit card.

        This was covered in the booklet, but I don't remember if you
        could send a check.   Since 99.94% of the people have credit
        cards, this probably doesn't come up very often. 

>     
>    On the interesting side, I was surprised that they don't need the 
>    names or numbers on the passports being renewed.  I wonder if it's 
>    possible to just buy a renewal without buying an original pass (not 
>    that I'd advocate doing this!)?  Do they ask to see your old passes 
>    when they take your pictures? 
>        

        The renewal certificates say they can be redeemed for passports
        and it does not say an old passport must be shown.  So to
        answer your question, I believe that it would be easy to buy a
        renewal without buying an original pass.  Like you I would not
        advocate this, nor would I do it myself.

        We bought our renewal certificates during our trip in June this
        year even though our passports don't expire until November
        29th.  We did this because the price had not changed in over a
        year and we thought they might go up soon (regular passports
        went up in price twice while annual passports stayed
        constant).  We are not planning to go back until the summer of
        1992 but as you probably know, your year does not start when
        you buy the renewal certificate, but rather when you actually
        have your picture taken (presumably on the next trip).

        We paid $145 for adults and $125 for children.  Disney gets
        to use my money for the next 2 years but in return, I will get
        2 years of summer vacation out of the passes (August 92 and
        June 93).  Each vacation will effectively cost $72.50/adult
        and $62.50/child which is very inexpensive especially
        considering each vacation will probably be two weeks long. 
        Throw in a couple of the inexpensive annual pass upgrades for
        PI,DI,RC and TL (amortized across two vacations) and you have
        very cheap super passes.

        /Jim Pappas
    

    If I remember correctly, I did receive a packet of information for
    renewing my Annual Passport by mail.  I was to enclose the coupon with
    a check and they would send me the certificate.  Upon my next visit I
    would have the pictures taken and the Passport would be validated at
    that time.

    re: .9
    
    We didn't get a booklet when we bought our passes.  That explains
    a lot of my confusion.
    
    As to having to go to Guest Relations to renew, the woman I spoke
    with made it sound like that is THE way to do it.  It was only
    when I told her that would be impossible that she said I could
    renew by phone.  She even seemed to hesitate before telling me
    that.  If I hadn't read this notes conference and I hadn't checked
    out this particular note just prior to calling, I probably would
    have given up when she said we have to go to Guest Relations.  I
    guess this is another time this conference has saved me a hassle
    and some money!  Thanks again.
    
    Ruth

        re: 150.8  CLOSET::AAARGH::LOWELL "Grim Grinning Ghosts...

>    I thought I'd clarify a couple of things about renewing passports.
>    
>    First, they don't send anything in the mail to remind you to renew
>    (confirmed by a call to the WDW information number).  I guess you're
>    supposed to automatically know what to do.


        My passports expire on November 29th.  Today I received the
        renewal forms in the mail.  They give you three methods of
        renewing your passports.

           1) Mail the enclosed order from with your check, money
           order or credit card information in the postage paid
           envelope provided.  Please allow two to four weeks for
           delivery.

           			OR

           2) Bring your passport to the Guest Relations window at
           EPCOT Center, the MAGIC KINGDOM Park or the Disney
           MGM-Studios Theme Park before the end of your Passport
           expiration month.

           			OR

           3) Order by telephone.  Just call (407) 834-4321 and charge
           the passports to your credit card.


        I don't know why you did not receive a renewal reminder.   In
        our case, I thought this was well handled and was what I
        expected.  We didn't need this since we bought our annual
        passport renewal certificates in June 90 on our last trip.  We
        will be going again with our passports in August 92 and June
        93.

        /Jim Pappas
    

    Well, I finally got my new passport tickets.  They hadn't arrived
    after three weeks so I called again.  They had no record of my
    order.  Since I couldn't risk waiting for US mail (we leave next
    Friday) I had 2 choices, purchase the tickets when I arrive or
    have them delivered via Federal Express.
    
    My tickets arrived last Friday via Federal Express at no extra
    charge since they had misplaced my original order.  I am very
    pleased with the way this was handled.
    
    Ruth

    Have the prices gone up?  Is it still $145 to renew?
    
    Maryann Hodges (mine expires on 2/8 - wonder if I'll make it down again
    before then . . . . )
    

    Can anyone update the Annual Passport note?
    
    The following information would be helpful:
    
          o Price of Adult Annual Passport
    
          o Price of Child Annual Passport
    
          o Renewal Price for each
    
          o Cost of the above with the Adders
    
    
    Maybe Jim P. knows the answer to this next one. Jim, if someone wanted
    to basically have an annual Super Passport, that is, unlimited
    admission to all three parks, Pleasure Island, River Country, Typhoon
    Lagoon, and River Country, would there be a special combo adder and if
    there is one what would that bring the cost of the Annual Passport to?
    
    Mike_who_hopes_to_be_flashing_an_annual_passport_in_550_days

    re: .14
    
    I paid $145 at the beginning of December.  However, if I remember
    correctly, the price information that came with my new Magic
    Kingdom Club card listed annual passports as being $155.
    
    FYI:
    
    While I was visiting WDW for Christmas I stopped by Guest Relations
    to get a copy of the pamphlet about annual passports.  The woman I
    spoke with said they changed computer systems last fall (meaning
    1989) and in the process lost a lot of mailing addresses.  I guess
    that explains why I never received any info.
    
    Ruth

    Ruth,
    
    $155 sounds low...must be without the adder(s).
    
    Mike

        I do not know what the current annual passport rates are.   I
        purchased my  renewal certificates in June even though my
        passports did not expire until November 29th.  I did this
        because I was anticipating a price increase since the annual
        passport rates had been constant for 1.5 years while the
        regular passports had risen in price twice.  Last time I
        checked the prices, they were still the same so Disney got to
        use some of money for an extra 6 months.

        I paid $145 for the adult and $125 for the child renewal
        certificates.  These can be redeemed for passports which allow
        admission into the 3 theme parks for one year from the first
        time they are used.  They do not include admission to River
        Country, Discovery Island, Typhoon Lagoon or Pleasure Island. 
        However, you can buy "adders" for for these places.  At last
        count the adders cost $15 ($11 kids) for River
        Country/Discovery Island combo, $16 for Pleasure Island, and
        $22.50 for Typhoon Lagoon.  If you buy all of the adders for
        $53.50  ($49.50 kids), then you then have the equivalent of an
        annual "super pass".  In our case, we did not buy the children
        passes to Pleasure Island so their upgrades cost $33.50.

        If you are down there for 7 or 8 days, then you are better off
        getting an annual pass.  If you are planning to make more than
        1 trip within a 12 month period, then it is probably much
        cheaper to buy annual passes.  If you are going off season,
        and plan to stay on property, then you might be able to save a
        fortune if you can get one of the annual passport holder
        specials.  In our case, we stayed in a $235/night lagoon view
        room at the Polynesian (concierge level) for only $99/night.

        We plan to go to WDW in August 1992 and June 1993.  We can
        take both of these vacations with the single passport.  With
        the adders, we can come or go as we please and use all of the
        facilities.

        We like to stay on property, but on our last trip, we rented a
        condo for the first week and had relatives join us.  The
        annual passports give you an added bonus if you are staying
        off property.  You do not have to pay for parking, and you can
        also call and make dinner/lunch reservations for EPCOT, MGM,
        MK full service restaurants up to 3 days in advance.

        Since our annual passports have now expired, and we will not
        be turning in our renewal certificates until August 92, then I
        will no longer be notified of the passholder specials.  I
        would appreciate it if those of you with passes would post the
        specials when they occur.   Thanks.

    re: .17
    
    Mike,
    
    Yes, $155 ($145) was without the adders.
    
    Ruth

    My annual passes expire this month.  From the renewal form and letter,
    which I have in front of me:
                                         Adult		Child
    	"New Issue" MKC price		$165(plus tax)	$145(plus tax)
    	Renewal MKC price		$145(plus tax)	$125(plus tax)
    
    Tax is $7.95 on $145 and $6.85 on $125.
    Renewal via mail adds another $2.00 postage and handling.
    
    Added all up (2 adults, 1 child) yields $439.75 to renew.
    
    Original MKC cost (on 1/23/90) was $501.35.  This broke down as
    follows (from the sales slip):
    
    	2 Adult year pass	@ 152.35
    	  Transportation	@  12.65
    	  Tax			@   9.15	348.40
    	1 Child year pass	@ 134.10
    	  Transportation	@  10.90
    	  Tax			@   8.05	153.05
    
    	Total					501.35
    
    These figures are for passes without adders.
     

    Does this note need to be updated? I recall seeing a price change in
    Park Admission recently and am wondering if the Annual Passport price
    has also gone up.
    
    If anyone has info on this please post the current price for both "new"
    and "renewal" passports for both adults and children. Also, please try
    to indicate whether the prices you post are MKC prices. Don't forget
    the adders.
    
    * * * *
    
    Also, upon reviewing this note I realized that it contains quite a bit
    of information on Annual Passports. What is NOT COVERED is how a WDW
    guest buys a "New Issue" Passport.
    
    If anyone has the time would they please post information which
    describes how one goes about getting an Annual Passport?
    
    Please include all necessary information. 
    
    Thanks,
    
    Mike

    >> If anyone has the time would they please post information which
    >> describes how one goes about getting an Annual Passport?
    
    It's easy.  Just go to a Guest Relations window and give them lots of
    money (just keeps signing travelers checks until they tell you to
    stop).  They will give you a voucher and direct you to a door that
    leads inside.  Once inside, they will take your picture and affix it to
    your annual passport.
    
    I don't know what the new prices are, but I do know that my MKC renewal
    rate was $145 plus tax, and the new (non-MKC) price for a 5-day super
    pass is $145 plus tax.
    
    I have gotten my passes at both the MK and at EPCOT Center, and I'm
    sure you can get them at the MGM Studio as well.
    
    --Jay
    

    Just so everyone understands....Annual Passports can be purchased ONLY
    at the theme parks?
    
    Does this mean you CAN'T get them at one of the On-Property resorts
    like The Contemporary, The Swan/Dolphin, CBR, Polynesian, GF, et al?
    
    Mike

        Mike,

        You can only buy new issue annual passports for WDW at the
        guest relation windows just outside of each of the three theme
        parks.  You do not actually buy a passport, rather you buy a
        ticket which is redeemable for an annual passport.  You then
        must enter the guest relations lounge where the clerk will
        take your picture and laminate your annual passport (similar
        to a drivers license).  You turn in the ticket you purchased
        at the window and get your passport.  They will also take
        information such as name and address and enter it into their
        computer along with the issue date of the passport.  I assume
        this is the database they use to remind you of a renewal. 
        Also, they can re-issue lost or stolen passports for a small
        fee by looking you up in their database.

        When you renew your passport, you also buy a "ticket" which is
        redeemable for your passport.  You must buy the renewal ticket
        no later than 30 days from the expiration of you passport, but
        you do not need to turn this in for an annual passport
        immediately.  You can buy the renewal certificates in person
        at the guest relations windows, by mail, or by phone.  When
        you wish to begin using your renewal, then you take the
        certificate to the guest relations lounge and have your
        picture takes as described above.  The year starts from the
        day you have your picture taken, not when you buy the renewal
        certificate.

        To buy the River Country/Discovery Island, Typhoon Lagoon, or
        Pleasure Island adders, they ask you to go to the each of the
        above places to buy the adders.  However, if you insist, then
        they may sell them to you at the guest relations windows. 
        Since the adders are made of cardboard stock (similar to std
        passports), we signed ours and then brought them into the
        guest relations lounge to have them laminated.  This keeps
        them in good shape.  The people working there did not mind
        laminating them for us, in fact they recommended it the first
        time.  The adders do not have your picture, but they have your
        name and they state that they must be used in conjunction with
        your annual passport to be valid.

        For anyone who might be planning to try and "borrow" someone's
        passport....  I wouldn't recommended doing this.  More often
        than not, the people working the admission gates check the
        pictures to be certain that they are not being abused.  They
        do it in a nice way, For instance, calling out names and
        saying hello to each of the kids etc.

        /Jim Pappas
    

    In our ignorance, we may have found a way of speeding things up. 
    When we first got Annual Passports, we tried to buy them at the FW 
    Ticket Window (alongside Pioneer Hall) - there was no line. The 
    guy told us that we would need to go to a Guest Relations Office 
    to get the photos done, but suggested that we pay him and get the 
    'tickets', and then we would probably be able to jump the line at 
    the GR window. He was right! We then went to the Guest Relations 
    window at the TTC and joined the line - about 25 people long. 
    Immediately a Cast Member came up, basically to check that we were 
    in the right line etc. As soon as she saw the tickets, she 
    escorted us inside to the lounge, took the photos, laminated the 
    passports and we were on our way before they'd had time to process 
    more than 5-6 people from the line outside. The feeling of 
    privilege started even before we'd got the passports!
    
    Jim is right about the checking, it was subtle, and did make you 
    feel special, but inevitably one of the party would be greeted by 
    name - "Hi, Mike! Howrya doin? Hello, Elizabeth, Who are you going 
    to see today? etc." I'd hate to run the risk of having it 
    withdrawn for misuse. The shame of having it cut up in front of 
    your eyes with large golden scissors with Mouse Ears!!!
    
    Mike_with_115_days_to_go

    Jim,
    
    Are you saying that the adders can be purchased at Guest Relations or
    that they must be purchased at their respective sites (TL,DI,PI)?
    
    Mike

        If you ask to buy the adders at the guest relations windows at
        the theme parks, then they will tell you that you need to buy
        them at the individual areas.  For example, they will tell you
        to buy a Typhoon Lagoon adder at Typhoon Lagoon.  If you ask
        them if they have the adders at guest relations, then they
        will show you that they have the adders, but they are really
        not for sale there, mostly to take care of problems etc.  If
        you beg (or request) that they sell them to you there, then
        they might; at least they did for me.  I told them that I
        would prefer to buy them all at once, and then have them
        laminated inside.  After a little give and take, she ended up
        selling them to me at guest relations.  The reason she claimed
        for not wanting to sell them was because of previous problems
        where people would buy an adder, only to later find out that
        the attraction was closed before they got to use the adder. 
        By buying them when you first used the attraction, then they
        could guarantee that you could use them at least one day.  I
        told them I was willing to take that chance.

        /Jim Pappas

    I was at the TTC just yesterday afternoon, and got the following
    information on Annual Passport prices from the Guets Relations window. 
    Hope this helps:
    
    
    (NOTE:  All Prices Include the 6% Tax)
    
    						MAGIC KINGDOM CLUB
    			ADULT	CHILD		ADULT	CHILD	
    			
    Passport, New	190.05	163.65		174.15	153.05
    Passport, Renewal	168.85	142.45		152.95	131.85
    Passport, Charter	147.65	121.25		131.75	110.65
    Typhoon Lagoon	79.50	79.50		71.02	71.02
    
    
    These are the only prices I received.  I asked for pricing on Pleasure
    Island and River Country adders, but the person at guest relations had
    enough trouble getting me the above info, and I didn't want to push her
    over the edge!!  :-)

        It looks like the prices for annual passports have stayed the
        same through the last couple of years.  In this same time, the
        price of single day, 4 day, and 5 day passes have increased 3
        times, and the 3 day passport has been discontinued.

        The Typhoon Lagoon price you posted in .-1 is not the annual
        passport adder.  Rather, it is an annual passport for TL for
        those without WDW annual passports.  The TL adder is much less
        expensive at $22.50.

        The complete annual passport price list is in note 96.6 and it
        includes the price of the various adders.
    
        Note -.1 has the price for "charter" annual passports.  Does
        anyone know what that refers to?
             
    

    Although I had already booked a September visit on a MKC Vacation
    Kingdom Holiday plan, after reading this and other related notes
    talking about $200.00 and up rooms going to annual passport holders for
    $99.00, I decided to do some investigating of my own.
    
    Well, my husband just got off the phone with both the CRO and MKC and
    produced the following results and information:
    
    Annual passport prices have recently been increased.  While he did not
    get the entire price breakdown, he did learn that the MKC price for a
    one year adult passport is now $184.70 (tax included).  Add-ons for
    Pleasure Island are $21.21, and for Typhoon Lagoon are $57.24 (again,
    tax included).  While the increases for the passport itself and the PI
    add-on are not that much, I flipped when he told me the cost of the TL
    add-on.  Given that the most recent price I found here showed the cost
    at $23.85, the price of adding TL to your passport has more than
    doubled!!!  Maybe it's getting a little too popular with the passport
    holders and they are losing money on the old deal?  Anybody else with
    any other possible reasons?
    
    The $99.00 per night rates are still available (at least during the
    time of our visit in September) for the Yacht and Beach Club and the
    Contemporary.  Again, while they will let you state your room
    preference, they will not guarantee anything other than the cheapest
    rooms for that price.  The statement was something to the effect of
    "preferences will be observed if available at check-in."  Also, while
    my husband did not get actual rate quotes for other hotels, he said
    that the questions asked implied that the rate was available at any
    Disney run property (i.e. Disney Village, Polynesian, and Disney Inn as
    well as the ones mentioned; he didn't ask about the Grand Floridian,
    but I doubt that it's included).
    
    So, despite the price increases, it is still a good deal to go on the
    "Annual Passport Plan" if you are staying for a week or more.  We have
    canceled our package reservations at the Port Orleans and have traded
    up to a non-smoking room with King size bed (hopefully!!!) at the Yacht
    Club.  We are getting our passports with the Pleasure Island add-on,
    but may pass on the Typhoon Lagoon add-on, as it would take three
    visits there to make up the price difference.
    
    Only 104 more days!!!  I can't wait!!!
    
    Ellen
    

    RE: .-1
    
    I just logged in to write the exact same thing as you.
    
    I called the WDW information line this morning and almost fell out of
    my chair when I heard the new prices.  A 140% increase is outrageous. 
    
    The clerk at the WDW information line said the reason was because too
    many local people were using Typhoon Lagoon and River Country and that
    they were too crowded.  
    
    I'll update the new prices in note 96.
    

    How do you get an annual pass?  What does it entitle you to other than
    admission and transportation?
    
    Renee

    The Annual Pass covers admission to all three theme parks and
    complimentary parking for one year. They can only be purchased at the
    theme parks. They have your picture on them along with an expiration
    date. Admission to any other places like Typhoon Lagoon, River Country
    etc. are an additional charge. 
    
    See note 96.21 for a complete price list.
    
    Dave ( who has 4 of them that expire 6/19/92)

    	I think it's more accurate to say that they can only be issued at
    the theme parks.  You can call a number to purchase a voucher for the 
    pass through the mail.  The voucher is turned in at the parks for the 
    actual pass.  I'm going down in January and I'll probably buy my voucher 
    early to protect against price increases.
    
    	The biggest avantage I saw to getting a pass is the special room
    rates.  I'll only use the pass once but because there is a passholders
    special going on at teh time we'll be there I'm saving about $1000 on the 
    Fort Wilderness trailer rates.  That far outweighs the additional cost of 
    the pass.
    
    George

    I called last night to make a reservation for December at the Yacht
    Club.  I was told I can buy the annual passport at a Guest Relations
    desk at the resort.  
    
    Is this information accurate?
    
    Renee

    Looking through the various replies here, you can buy them at Guest
    Relations but you have to buy the various adders at the respective
    attractions.  I also believe that to check in and get the annual passport
    special rate you need to have your annual passport OR voucher.  Seems
    like this could complicate checking in.  Before you can drop all that
    luggage you have to scramble around and wait in a line to get your
    passport.  
    
    	There is a phone # to call to get your vouchers by mail.  The
    voucher is acceptable for checking in since you've already paid the
    fee.  Once you get settled you can go get the actual passports and
    since you already have the voucher can probably short circuit the line
    of people waiting to buy vouchers.  I believe you can also pay for teh
    adders by mail.  Then again, I haven't actually done any of this yet so I 
    don't know if it actually works 8:-).
    
    George

    If anyone has ever or plans to get Annual Passport vouchers through the mail
    please educate the noters with your experience.
    
    Mike
    
    

    If I can remember I'll post the phone number tonight.  When I called
    them last week they said you can give them your credit card number and
    they will send you the vouchers.  I asked the woman I was speaking to if
    there was a time limit on the voucher - what if I cancelled my trip and
    didn't get back to WDW for 2 years, would there be a problem redeeming
    the voucher for my picture passport?  She said no but I got the definite 
    impression that it was something that they hadn't run into before.  She 
    did say you could get a refund by requesting it from another group. 
    
    	I pln on buying my vouchers through the mail but probably won't do
    it for a month or two.
    
    George

re: -.1
>>>    I asked the woman I was speaking to if
>>>    there was a time limit on the voucher - what if I cancelled my trip and
>>>    didn't get back to WDW for 2 years, would there be a problem redeeming
>>>    the voucher for my picture passport?  She said no but I got the definite 
>>>    impression that it was something that they hadn't run into before.  She 
>>>    did say you could get a refund by requesting it from another group. 
    
    
    
    	If this is the case, it is MUCH different than the way they do it
    out in California.  I was at the park on MY annual pass, and a
    girlfriend whose family all have annuals asked me to pick up a voucher
    for their son who was about to turn three.  I was told that you only
    had three months to redeem them before the clock started ticking (and
    they would retroactively start the clock as of purchase date).
    
    I'd double-check with someone first before buying them.
    
    tom

    Phone # for the annual passport office is 407-824-4321.  You can order
    the pass vouchers by mail but you can't get the adders by mail.  It
    takes 4 to 5 weeks for delivery.  Price is $184.70 with the MKC
    discount.  For a PI adder it's $21.20 with MKC.
    
    George

    .39 concerns me. Like George I plan on getting the vouchers via mail
    but I don't expect to get to Orlando until next Summer so it is
    IMPORTANT to me, as well as anyone else planning the same, to find out
    if indeed the clock starts a 3-month countdown for exchanging the
    vouchers for the picture passport.
    
    Anyone planning this should take note of this question and hold off
    until we know for certain how this works.
    
    Mike_who_won't_be_needing_a_passport_for_357_days

    I just called and ordered my vouchers. The person who talked to me told
    me that there was no limit to redeem the vouchers, and that the clock 
    will start ticking when they are redeemed. She said I will receive 
    the vouchers in the mail within three weeks. I'll keep you posted. 
    
    Linda

    
    Would this "trick" work with *renewing* Annual Passports?  Specificlly...
    
    I buy an Annual Passport 10/30/90.  It expires this 10/30/91.  I am
    planning a trip on 11/30/92.
    
    What I think:  I'd have to renew the passport for 10/30/91 -> 10/30/92
                   and again for 10/30/92 -> 10/30/93 in order to get 
                   renewal passes for 11/30/92.  Since this is silly, I 
                   would end up just buying, at the new price, another
                   new passport on 11/30/92 and forget about renewing.
    
    What I'm starting to hope:
    
                   I could get a mail voucher for renewal *now*.  Then
                   not redeem it until my trip on 11/30/92 and the year 
                   countdown starts again for 11/30/92 -> 11/30/93.
    
    What the new way would buy me:
    
                   I could get one annual passport for my 11/30/92 trip
                   at a "renewal" price rather than a "new" price.
    
    - Sean

        RE: 150.26 SALEM::PAGLIARULO_G

        George,

        In .36 you write:

>        I also believe that to check in and get the annual passport
>        special rate you need to have your annual passport OR voucher. 
>        Seems like this could complicate checking in.  Before you can
>        drop all that luggage you have to scramble around and wait in
>        a line to get your passport.


        You can certainly drop off your luggage with the bell person
        before you check in and before you go and buy your annual
        passport(s).  I did this at the Poly and then went to the TTC
        to get the passports prior to checking-in.

        Also, when I used the AP special last time, they did not care
        to see my annual passport at check-in (even though I had
        already bought it).  Therefore, I would not hesitate trying to
        check-in prior to buying the voucher or getting the passport. 
        The worse that will happen is they will ask you to get the
        passport and come back.

        /Jim Pappas
    

    What you are proposing is not really a trick.  As I understand the way
    renewals work, you have 30 days from the time your passport expires to
    buy your renewal voucher at the renewal price.  As with the first time
    vouchers, your year doesn't start until you redeem the vouchers at the
    park.  Disney just gets to hold your money for all that time.

    Perhaps someone who has renewed their annual passport could verify.

RE: 150.43  BEATLE::REILLY

        Sean,


>    I buy an Annual Passport 10/30/90.  It expires this 10/30/91.  I am
>    planning a trip on 11/30/92.
>    
>    What I think:  I'd have to renew the passport for 10/30/91 -> 10/30/92
>                   and again for 10/30/92 -> 10/30/93 in order to get 
>                   renewal passes for 11/30/92.  Since this is silly, I 
>                   would end up just buying, at the new price, another
>                   new passport on 11/30/92 and forget about renewing.
>    
>    What I'm starting to hope:
>    
>                   I could get a mail voucher for renewal *now*.  Then
>                   not redeem it until my trip on 11/30/92 and the year 
>                   countdown starts again for 11/30/92 -> 11/30/93.
>    
>    What the new way would buy me:
>    
>                   I could get one annual passport for my 11/30/92 trip
>                   at a "renewal" price rather than a "new" price.

        I have good news for you.  It is what you 'hope', not 'think'.

        The renewal vouchers must be purchased within 30 days of the
        expiration of your current AP.  These vouchers are good
        forever toward getting another annual passport.  The new year
        will start when you turn in the voucher, have your picture
        taken, and get the new annual passport.  You get exactly what
        you were hoping for, and Disney gets to use your money for a
        year.  You both win.

        /Jim Pappas



    

    I just called to order my Annual Passports.  Here's the scoop.

    You call the WDW information number (407) 824-4321.  The prices as
    posted in 96.21 are correct.  I paid $184.70 for each MKC Adult Annual
    Passport.  They take Visa, Mastercard, or American Express.

    There is a $2.00 per order shipping and handling charge.  The vouchers
    should arrive in 2-3 weeks.  There is an express (7 day) delivery
    option available for an additional $10.

    There is no time limit on when the vouchers can be redeemed.  Even if
    the price should increase, (again), the vouchers are still valid.

    
    Thanks for the info, people!  Is this notesfile the best thing for
    planning a WDW trip, or what?!?  My Disney vacations have been getting
    better and better and for less and less money!
    
    - Sean

    Yeah Sean, it works exactly as stated. We bought our AP's 1st July 
    '89 (2 Adult, 2 Child). Bought the Vouchers (by Fax with Visa with 
    confirming signature) at the renewal price in July '90. We even 
    got one of the Child's passes upped to Adult at the renewal rate. 
    We turned the vouchers in at MGM on 1st July '91 and got the 
    passports with no problems. There was a line at Guest Relations 
    but a cast member came down the line checking what we wanted and 
    pulled us and the couple behind us out and into the 'inner 
    sanctum' for photos. We got chatting to the other couple while 
    waiting for the passes to be laminated, and found out that he was 
    an ex-Macintosh engineer, and she was ex-Northern Telecomms. They 
    set up a two person business making silver jewellery (must be all 
    that soldering practice!). He'd had a MKC card with Macintosh, so 
    when they started out in business, she'd applied as 'Head of 
    Personnel' for their company, and got MKC cards no problems 
    (Starter pack of 20 cards and info packs. All their friends and 
    relatives now had individual cards!) The interesting thing was - 
    It was 19 months since they'd bought their renewal vouchers and 
    they were processed no problems! It does indeed look as though 
    they are valid forever.
    
    Mike in Warrington.

    Received my vouchers on July 29, 10 days after placing the telephone
    order. Great service as usual. This will save a lot of time in line 
    once we get to WDW. 
    
    Linda

        A few months ago, I sent a letter to Dick Nunis, President of
        WDW expressing my disappointment in the recent price increases
        (2.4X) of the annual passport adders for River
        Country/Discovery Island, and Typhoon Lagoon.

        After about 7 weeks, I received a Federal Express letter from
        Vincent Sikora, V.P. of Resort Operations.  He was polite,
        thanked me for my letter, and said that Dick Nunis shared my
        letter with him and the V.P. of Sales, and the V.P. of
        Finance.  He also threw in 5 free tickets to Typhoon Lagoon
        for my family.

        Today (about 1 month later) I got a phone call from Mr. Bill
        Bunting, Manager of Tickets and Admissions.  We talked for
        about an hour about the annual passports.  He said my letter
        had really made the rounds and that "everyone" had a copy and
        it had come up in several meetings and discussions.

        In a nutshell, nothing is likely to happen too soon, but Bill
        said that he has been trying to get an "Annual Superpass"
        approved as I had recommended.  He said that he has been
        trying to do this for a while, but that there was not a lot of
        support.  He also said that some people there have been
        wanting to change the annual passports so that only Florida
        state residents could purchase them, but that most people were
        against that idea since about 30% of the AP sales are out of
        state and they did not want to lose that revenue.

        Several times he said that the old AP adders were basically a
        "give away", and the new AP adders were still a good value. 
        I politely  disagreed and held my ground.  He said that we
        could use the AP and adders for 2 trips to WDW if we were to
        plan the second trip to be a couple of weeks earlier than the
        first.  This was part of his trying to convince me that the
        current price was justified.

        He said that he had pulled my reservations, and that because
        of the $99 AP special at the Y&BC resort that I was getting an
        exceptional deal, even if I purchased all of the RC, DI, TL,
        and PI adders.  I explained that the hotel discount was
        independent of the of the value of the AP adders and that
        under the current price structure, that it would be more
        economical to pay a la carte for the water parks rather than
        to buy the adders, or at most, to buy just the TL adder and
        not visit RC or DI at all.  He realized that if lots of people
        did this, then TL would be more crowded and RC would be less
        crowded, which is just the opposite of what they would prefer. 
        It is to their advantage to "even out" attendance at both
        water parks.

        At one point he asked if I ever visited the Y&BC before.  I
        told him no since it was not finished last summer when I last
        visited.  He said the Y&BC themed pool is as good as RC, and
        in his opinion, RC has outlived its purpose.

        One more thing.  According to Bill Bunting, there is no longer
        a 2 day Typhoon Lagoon ticket or a 2 day River Country ticket. 
        I don't know if this is absolutely true (he seemed a little
        confused about this), but if the 2 day tickets are gone, then
        the break even point for the AP adders gets shorter.

        I guess that we will be buying the Typhoon Lagoon adders and
        will not be getting the RC/DI adder.  I am disappointed in
        this since it will cost more than last year, and plus I will
        not have passports for RC/DI.  My family is not that crazy
        about RC but it is OK for one day/trip.   In the past we have
        enjoyed taking a trip to DI, but I am not sure if we will do
        it this year.

        So, what does all of this mean?  I guess not very much.  At
        least I was heard, and they realize that if they raise prices
        by 2.4X that people will not be happy.

    Jim,
    
    	    Just to confirm what you were told, there are no longer 2 
    day passes for Typhoon Lagoon or River Country (I don't know about 
    DI, but having been once, I don't care to go again even for one 
    day, let alone two).
    
    	    All these snippets are in my trip report, but it seems to 
    be taking longer to prepare, than to actually do! I'm only up to 
    Day 11!
    
    Mike in Warrington.

    That's too bad...my plan was to forget the TL adder and get the two day
    pass.........
    
    ........guess I'll be composing a little letter and sending it off too.
    Maybe it will do some good.......maybe it won't.
    
    Mike

    re: .51  -< Reply from WDW concerning the 2.4X increase in AP adders >-

    Well, Jim you're quite the celebrity at WDW.  Will they be asking for
    your autograph when you're there next week? :-)

>   Bill said that he has been trying to get an "Annual Superpass" approved
>   as I had recommended.  He said that he has been trying to do this for a
>   while, but that there was not a lot of support.

    He sure has my support.  I would probably pay and extra 25 or 30 bucks
    for this, where I will be very choosy about which adders I buy.  I
    don't expect I'll buy a RC/DI adder, I probably will get the Pleasure
    Island adder.  Typhoon Lagoon will depend on the weather.  If I can get
    in two trips to TL during my first trip I'll buy it.  It the weather is
    lousy,  I'll skip the adder and take my chances on � la carte tickets
    next summer.  Bottom line is Disney doesn't get extra revenue by
    selling me stuff I might not use.

>   He also said that some people there have been wanting to change the
>   annual passports so that only Florida state residents could purchase
>   them, but that most people were against that idea since about 30% of
>   the AP sales are out of state and they did not want to lose that
>   revenue.

    This makes absolutely no sense to me.  Wouldn't the best deal for Disney
    be to sell tickets to people who won't use them?  Isn't that the idea
    behind the commemorative passports for Euro-Disneyland, and Disney
    Dollars?  Take a lot of my money for a pretty piece of paper?

    By selling annual passports to out-of-staters they do two things, first
    they get maximum bucks for people who will only use the passports maybe
    15 days out of 365, and secondly generate the NEED among those people
    to make a second trip within a year that the may not have planned. 
    That means extra hotel nights, meals, etc.

    By selling annual passes to local residents, they cap revenues from
    people who may use those passes a lot more than the 15 or so someone
    who has to travel might.  Disney end's up providing a lot more service
    for the same revenue, and doesn't get as much of the upside from
    hotels, meals, etc.

    Probably a good compromise is the current "Four Season Salute" that is
    available to Florida residents only.  It allows unlimited admission
    during four off season months.  That way they grab some bucks, with
    minimal incremental costs.

    Len - (a new annual passport holder, with two trips planned in the next
           12 months.)

    
�   By selling annual passports to out-of-staters they do two things, first
�   they get maximum bucks for people who will only use the passports maybe
�   15 days out of 365, and secondly generate the NEED among those people
�   to make a second trip within a year that the may not have planned. 
�   That means extra hotel nights, meals, etc.
    
    I dunno, I can maybe see Disney's logic here, from a $$$ standpoint,
    anyway.
    
    First, they DON'T get maximum bucks for the people who go 15/365 days.
    They'd get maximum bucks if you couldn't get the AP and HAD to buy
    separate tickets.  After all, isn't that why we (those who only go 
    15/365 days) buy them in the first place?  We do it because it is 
    cheaper for us to do so, even if we don't go back a second time that year.
    
    Secondly, for Florida residents, who really can go to WDW a lot, Disney
    makes out by selling food and stuff (probably where they make a lot of
    their money anyway) to people who actually can and will go there a lot.
    
    However, they will be losing larger numbers of repetitive trips by
    those of us who go mostly because the AP specials make it cheap
    enough for us to do it.  So I can't say the whole thing has a huge
    amount of business sense.  If I ran a business, I'd like to keep in
    good standing with my most faithful and loyal customers.
    
    - Sean

    I guess the phrase we're looking for here is "potential maximum bucks".
    
    A person buys APs because that person...
    
            ...intends on making multiple trips in one year.
            ...intends on going once for the year but is there for over 1
               week.
    
    By offerring the AP the folks at Disney are planting a seed in the
    minds of those who fall in the second category.
    
    "Gee Martha we went last September and our APs run out this September.
    MAybe we can get away for a few more days to get the most out of the
    AP's while they last."
    
    >>...they DON'T get maximum bucks for the people who go 15/365 days.
    >>They'd get maximum bucks if you couldn't get the AP and HAD to buy
    >>separate tickets.
    
    Maximum bucks in terms of admission $$$$$$ but an AP may be the carrot 
    for multiple trips.
    
    I think the folks at Disney want to make every effort to be convenient
    and as flexible as possible so that they can get repeat customers as 
    much as possible. An AP is one way of doing it.
    
    As far as the "Super AP" is concerned....well now we're talking extra
    $$$ which people may not go for. I think an AP system which allows you
    to purchase "adder-type" extras should always be available.
    
    Maybe the hesitation to go with a "Super AP" comes from the lack of
    flexibility this type of pass would offer.
    
    Mike

�   They'd get maximum bucks if you couldn't get the AP and HAD to buy
�   separate tickets.  

    True, but I, for one, wouldn't.  I'd buy a 5 or 6 day superpass, stay a
    week, do Typhoon Lagoon, etc., Universal and/or Sea World, then not be
    back for two years or more.

    This way, by taking advantage of the Annual Passport and the
    Passholder's hotel special, I'll be making two trips within 12 months,
    probably three weeks total, eating their food and sleeping in their
    beds.

    A local with an annual passport on the other hand, stays at home,
    drives in, parks for free, maybe buys a hot dog, then goes home for
    supper.  Not much incremental revenue that I can see.

    The upside comes in getting guys like me, (and you), to make that extra
    (extended) trip south.

    
    Hey :^) I agree with you guys!  I love the AP and I wouldn't want to lose
    this offering!
    
    I guess I was just musing about where WDW's head was at.  Personally,
    I too would go to WDW less if I couldn't get the annual pass and its
    associated specials (same goes for stock).  WDW will lose some of *our*
    business as a result of mucking around with that stuff.
    
    But let's face it.  Most of us are *hardcore* Disney in here.  We study 
    the art of WDW vacationing like some people study music or sports.
    Somehow I suspect that that type of vacationer is in the minority at
    WDW.  WDW can probably handle us loyal followers saving $$$ on the AP,
    'cause we *do* come back and spend more money, but maybe they want to keep
    the one-timers spending big bucks on separate tickets.  I dunno, maybe
    I'm out to lunch.  I do agree that allowing them for Florida residents
    is probably no big gain for them.
    
    But an Annual Superpass?  Yum, I *like* that idea!  I don't like
    wasting time buying all the different adders and stuff.  And I *do*
    want the adders because I don't like to plan my days ahead of time
    or have to do some attractions for only one day.  So for me, an
    Annual Supepass would be *more* flexible, not less, because it gives
    me the ultimate freedom to do any park on any day for any amount of
    days.
    
    - Sean
    
    

    I wonder how many APs are sold/used for 1 trip? 2 trips? random days?
    
    From the trip reports I would guess 1 long trip is the most
    popular. If the AP were unavailable, then either the trip would be
    shorter or planned with fewer disney days. For the two trippers,
    the AP is an enabler that lets them take advange of a hotel
    special. For these people the Disney hotel corp. should buy APs
    from the Disney amusement corp. and bundle the ticket with a long
    stay at the hotel. This would then let the hotel lure the person
    back 11 months later with a sweetheart deal. 

    
    >> True, but I, for one, wouldn't.  I'd buy a 5 or 6 day superpass,
    >> stay a week, do Typhoon Lagoon, etc., Universal and/or Sea World,
    >> then not be back for two years or more.
    
    Methinks not Mr. Goldberg...9 months from the place and you get
    withdrawal symptoms.
    
    >> But let's face it.  Most of us are *hardcore* Disney in here.  We
    >> study the art of WDW vacationing like some people study music or
    >> sports.
    
    Boy Sean you won't get an argument from me on this.
    
    >>But an Annual Superpass?  Yum, I *like* that idea!  I don't like
    >>wasting time buying all the different adders and stuff.
    
    I still think you need a flexible way of customizing a Super Pass
    because there are people who don't want to do TL, RC, TL, PI, or DI.
    
    >>I wonder how many APs are sold/used for 1 trip? 2 trips? random days?
    
    It's a combo but I'd say mostly for long trips.
    
    Mike

�   Methinks not Mr. Goldberg...9 months from the place and you get
�   withdrawal symptoms.
    
    Yeah, and they always end up in BANK withdrawal symptoms!

    Len, (who just got his AMEX bill for two airline tickets and two annual
    passports.)

    Best plastic you ever spent.

    I just ordered my Gold MKC card last Friday.  I'm still in the process 
    of deciding where (on property) to stay, and whether or not to do it
    with any of the plans that include admissions, food, etc.  In the event
    that I just go for a straight room deal, I'd be getting annual
    passports.  My question:  When I have my MKC card, are there any
    restrictions on how many annual passports I can get with the MKC rate?
    Can I get the MKC rate for all of my family who will be coming -
    mother, sister, brother-in-law, and niece?
    
    Jean B.

    Good question. Jim Pappas, our AP expert happens to be with "the Mouse"
    this week and would have a clue as to whether or not there is a limit.
    
    I recall hearing somewhere that you might be limited to your immediate
    family and I've also heard that there is no limit.
    
    Hmmm, I think Linda Gibson ordered vouchers recently. Linda, can you
    shed some light here? Did the folks at Disney ask what relationship the
    person or persons getting the vouchers were to you?
    
    Mike

    They didn't even ask for the names. I ordered two adults, and the
    invoice came with my name on it twice. I would think you could order 
    any reasonable number with no problem. (They might get suspicious
    if you ordered 25 or 30). 
    
    Linda

    Thanks for the information.  If I'm ordering a total of 5, I guess that
    they shouldn't be asking questions or having a problem.  As an aside,
    I was also thinking that IN CASE they had a problem, we could always
    have my mom get her own and one other with the DISNEY MAGIC YEARS 
    membership that she just got.
    
    Thanks again,
    Jean

        We just got back from using our annual passports at WDW.   As
        I reported earlier, the cost of the adders have gone up a lot. 
        We decided not to buy the River Country/Discovery Island
        adders this year because of the price increase and we
        grudgingly paid the $54 for the Typhoon Lagoon adders.  My
        wife and I also bought adders to Pleasure Island.

        One good thing at TL is that you no longer have to sign in as
        in the past.  Now you show your annual passports, your TL
        adders, and you pass though the gate.

        This year I was not able to buy the adders at the TTC's guest
        relations window.  Instead I had to go to PI and TL to get
        them.  Typhoon Lagoon has recently received a laminating
        machine which removes the need to travel back to the TTC to
        get them laminated if desired.  I also had my PI passes
        laminated at TL.

        The replacement cost of a lost annual passport has been
        increased from $5.00 to $15.00.

        I found a place where an annual passport is not as good as a
        resort ID.  When we go to the MK, we sometimes park at the
        Contemporary and use the walkway to the MK.  When we passed
        the kiosk the guard asked us for resort ID's.  I showed our
        APs and he said that a resort ID was necessary.  He said that
        the AP was good for use of the WDW transportation system
        (buses, monorails, boats) but that the walkway was not a
        transportation system and was for resort guests only.  I
        showed our resort ID and we went through but I thought this
        was being a bit picky.

        If you have an annual passport you obviously do not need to
        have your hand stamped when leaving the parks.  This year, we
        were told that when we re-enter the park, we could pick
        whichever line was shortest, regardless if it was a first time
        entry or a re-entry gate.  I was told their computer now
        figures out all of the re-entries automatically.
    

    Jim,
    
    Was the TL adder cheaper than the two-day pass...oops, forgot, the
    two-day TL pass is extinct right?
    
    Mike

 re: .67

	Seems this story is not known yet by all disneygate personnel;
	they all seem to tell a different story; one asked us if we
	had come through a park yet today; and we said yes but weren't
	handstamped; so we got a lecture; how even though we had
	annual passports we still had to get the handstamp. Sine they are
	computerized they should be able to keep track of you being a
	reentry; According to some you still have to do it the other
	way; but then the otehr day we just went through the gates
	again, and no flashing lights went off; 

	Yes there does seem to be a distinction as to what is 
	"Walt Disney World Transportation" and what isn't. For instance
	the monorail loop that goes from TTC-Poly-Grand Floridian-MK-Contemp.
	is supposedly a resort guest only loop.... You can get yourself
	stuck on this one..... as the only place that seems to do any checking
	for a "resort id" is the Grand Floridian. We didn't think to see
	if our annual passport would be sufficient here; but we had to show
	a resort id to get back on.

			- Annie

     RE:                  <<< Note 150.69 by BROKE::LUND >>>
                      -< Handstamping - Annual passports >-


>	We didn't think to see
>	if our annual passport would be sufficient here; but we had to show
>	a resort id to get back on.

	Your annual passport would have been sufficient.  When we went
	to WDW last October, we had annual passports and we were staying
	off-site.  We had to show our annual passports to use the water
	shuttle from Grand Floridian to MK, and from MGM to the Swan,
	Dolphin, Yacht Club, and Beach Club area.

								John T.

    I've been debating this question with Mike for some time now and
    decided to ask other'ss opinions too.  If I bought a voucher for an
    annual passport today - could I wait 3 - 5  years to redeem it and it 
    still be valid and not pay any additional charges? 
    
    Kathy_who_is_9.5_months_away_from_her_next_trip_to_the_world!
    
                                                                 
    
    

    Kathy,
    
    	    The consensus is that yes, the vouchers remain valid 
    forever, just like unused portions of the 3, 4 and 5 day passes. I 
    checked and double checked this with many Disney people before 
    buying my vouchers back in May '90. OK, I only held mine for just 
    over a year before redeeming them, but there was no problem, no 
    queries (They didn't even seem to have any kind of date stamp on 
    them). It's a good deal, because I'm sure the prices aren't going 
    to drop any over the next few years. It's also a good deal for 
    Disney, because they get to use our money immediately.
    
    Mike B (In the remote Disney Outpost of Warrington, UK)
    

I just called to check on the AP specials (Hoping to save a few dollars).
I was hoping to buy the AP and save on the Poly rates.

Apparently according to the (407)824-4321 number there are none, I pushed her
and she said maybe for florida residents and then she said just a minute...
when she came back she said the specials will be back again for Nov 30- Dec 22.
and gave me another number 827-7200. 

827-7200 was much better, she seemed to inspire a little more confidence. She
said the the AP specials run until Feb 9th.

I resigned to spending a lot of money on this trip.

Peter.

Re: .71

>    I've been debating this question with Mike for some time now and

>    decided to ask other'ss opinions too.  If I bought a voucher for an

>    annual passport today - could I wait 3 - 5  years to redeem it and it 
     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>    still be valid and not pay any additional charges? 
    
    Kathy -

	There's a difference between a 3, 4, 5 day pass and the annual 
	passport.  The 3, 4, 5 days passports (the unused portion) are 
	good forever.  However, an annual passport can only be held for 
	1 year without redeeming it.  Once you redeem it (i.e., you have 
	your picture taken and you get your picture pass), it is good 
	for a whole year.  

	I bought an annual passport in May 1986 (and started using it 
	immediately).  I renewed it in May 1987 but didn't have my 
	picture taken until January 1988, and that pass expired in 
	January 1989.

	If you have a bad case of Disney-itis, it is a really good buy.  
	We figured that the pass paid for itself after 6 or 7 days (if 
	my memory serves me right) because it was just a little more
	expensive than a 5 day pass and you don't have to pay for 
	parking.

	Good luck!
	Jacqueline

    Looks like we need a 'Definitive Disney Statement' on the AP's. I 
    asked several people at the CRO and MKC desks how long the 
    vouchers were valid for, and always got the same reply - 
    "They are valid until you redeem them."
    "Even if it's 2 or 3 years before my next visit?"
    "Yes!"
    
    Of course, I've got nothing in writing. Perhaps a stateside noter 
    could send a letter, to get a written reply with the definitive 
    answer?
    
    Mike B.

    This is just to let everyone know that the AP's haven't gone up in
    price. I ordered mine last night and the prices are the same as
    reported in notes .30 and .40.
    
    I guess they're really hurtin' 'cause when I asked Melanie (castmember
    on the other end) if she needed my MKC Card No. she chuckled and said,
    "That's okay we trust you."
    
    I think that is supposed to really mean "That's okay...we need the
    money and we're just happy you ordered them.
    
    And again for those wondering....the clock does not start until the
    vouchers are redeemed and your photos are taken.
    
    And Jim P. they haven't lowered that TL adder price...still real high.
    
    I'm thinking that the TL adder is much higher than the others because
    unlike the parks or PI people really don't spend as much $$$$ while
    there. Just my thoughts.
    
    Mike
     

    Has anyone heard any info on Passholder Specials for this year 
    - Are there any and when are they running?
    
    Mike B. Who_is_starting_his_countdown_at_131_days_to_go!

I just got back from an Annual Passport holders special, $99/night at the
Contemporary (yes, I know, trip report is on the way).  I think the
deadline for that has passed, as the spring break season is starting.

When I was down there, I tried to book another special for after Labor Day.
They told me that the rates wouldn't be set until later in the year, but
there was a decent chance that the special would be the same then.

Between now and the post-summer off season is just one more off-season: May
(actually, I think it's the week after Easter week to the end of May, but
I could be wrong).  Specials for that period have probably been set by now.
Give them a call and find out!

   Gary

    No AP room specials yet, Mike.  I keep checking.  The last time I
    called was about two weeks ago for specials around late August when the
    fall season starts.

    It is unlikely that you'll get a special for July which is high season.
    But if one turns up, you might find one more Mod at the Birthday bash!
    I guess if we're all at WDW we'll have to shut down the conference for
    a week or two, unless someone has a terminal we can tote with us. :-)

    Thanks Len! Keep Trying! There was a special for July last year! 
    We were in FW at $125 per night for the last week of our stay, and 
    we could have had the GF at $150.
    
    If anyone enters a live trip report, it should be the Mods. How do 
    you fancy a minute by minute description of Mike S. on stage at 
    the HDD!
    
    Mike B.
    

    If Len goes then we'll have a problem...there won't be a part for him
    unless we make him the Texas Ranger.
    
    Mike_who_will_be_behind_the_camera_and_not_in_front

    With the increase in prices does anyone know what he cost of the annual
    pass is for '92?  I called the DIsney store and she quoted me $200
    which I find hard to believe based on the other pass prices.
    
    Thanks, Terry

    Received my first mailing as an Annual Passholder yesterday. They have 
    announced a new telephone number for all information connected to 
    annual passes. The number is:
    
             (407) 560-PASS    aka    (407 560-7277
    
    I asked about room specials for this spring. I was told that they
    usually are in effect during the value season and was advised to call
    back in mid-April to see if they have been announced. 
    
    Linda

        I received a mailing for annual passport holders with the
        Pleasure Island annual pass upgrade.

        As of now, if you have a PI annual pass, thy offer"

        - Every Friday, PI annual passholders may bring one guest
        (over 21) for free, if you arrive be 9:00.

        - On the first Friday of every month, a private party for
        annual passholders and their guests, including an elaborate
        buffet.

        - $2.00 off each ride on ORBOTRON. (a new thrill ride at PI).

        - 10% discounts at Portobello Yacht Club, Fireworks Factory
        Steerman's Quarters, Fisherman's Deck, Front Page, and SuperStar
        studios.

        - $2.00 discount off movies at the AMC theatre.
    

    
       Re:-1
    
        2.00 off ORBOTRON (new PI thrill ride)
    
    
       Does anyone have any details on this?  What kind of theme is used
     for this ride?  Is it currently operating or is it still being built?
    
    
                      Just curious?
    
                                -Rob
    

    ORBOTRON is hard to describe. It's a contraption of three rings 
    that rotate in all different directions. A person is strapped 
    inside of them and also rotates upside down, side to side, all 
    combinations of directions. 
    
    I got nauseous just watching it. 
    
    Linda  

    Sounds like  what  the  Astronauts use to pratice flying the shuttle in
    case they go into a flight spin, as seen in the movie Space Camp.
    

    Just got off the line with the Passholders desk.
    
    No 'specials' in my timeframe, but they are offering 50% off most 
    hotels and FW Trailers running from May 1 to June 7. Y&BC and FW 
    Campsites 25% off in the same period.
    
    Mike B.

    Can someone help?  Did I read somewhere  that you had to hold an
    annual pass for a certain amount of time before you can partake of any
    hotel specials?
                                            
    Thanks, Terry

    RE: -1
    
    You do not need to have an AP for any length of time to get any of the
    specials.  In fact, many of us booked the specials rates, then bought
    our AP's just prior to check-in.
    
    I think you might be confusing this with the Stockholder's specials. 
    For those, you must purchase stock prior to some date (Jan 18th?) in
    order to receive the specials for that year.  You also must hold the
    stock certificates (ie, request them from your stockbroker).

    Hi,
    
    I have been trying to use the new AP number in note 150.83 to 
    get information on specials. (407) 560-7277... The phone rings
    but no one is answering.
    
    I want to go to Disneyworld BAD, but need a "deal". Could someone
    give me the actual number or comment on using the one I mentioned.
    
    Thanks!!!
    
    Dennis G.
    

    That's the right number (407) 560-PASS, but like all Disney's non-toll
    free numbers they don't answer automatically and put you on hold. This is
    meant to save you a few cents.  I have found that you have to let that
    number ring a while before someone answers.

    BTW, when I called last week, they said I had to call the CRO to get
    information on lodging discounts.  See the address and phone numbers
    note for the correct CRO numbers.

    The CRO had a AP deal from May 1 - June 7, but nothing after that yet.

    I rang it a few days back, and it was answered within a couple of 
    rings. Looks like it depends on availability as Len suggested.
    
    Once it was answered, the 'Front Desk' guy didn't have all the 
    answers, and put me on hold once ("Kiss De Girl" was the music!) 
    to get an answer, and then transfered me to another person for 
    another query.
    
    Mike B.

    Len,
    
    Thanks for your comments and setting me straight... Your absolutely
    Right, I tried it again and after about eight rings the Disney Folks
    picked up the line. Once you understand what their doing by not picking
    up, it makes good sense.
    
    After some conversation I was connected to the person who accessed
    all the information and the Deal I was interested in!
    
    She said to call that number and ask for "Special Programs" in the
    future.
    
    Thanks again for your help!!!
    
    Dennis G. 

    I have a AP but it was valid up to last february.
    
    I am going to WDW in trhee weeks and I'm planning to buy a AP again.
    
    Reading this conference I noticed that it is possible to get the AP
    renewed by less money than buying a new one.
    
    But I also read that you have to do it before the validity date
    expires.
    
    Well, we have none of this information here in Brazil, and we also can
    not buy AP or any other kind of ticket by the mail as you do. The only
    way we have is going to WDE and buy it at the desk. Last time I've benn
    in WDW was last october and, as I had no idea about this, I didn't buy
    the new one.
    
    Do you think I'll have problem to get my AP nenewed?
                

    RE:  .95             -< Anual Pass renovation >-
    
    � Do you think I'll have problem to get my AP nenewed?
    
    As long as you have the money, you'll have no problem getting another
    annual passport.  In order to get the renewal rate, explain what you've
    just explained to us (and bring your old passports to show them) and
    I'm sure they'll give you the renewal rate.  I've gotten the renewal
    rate twice that way.   ;^>
    
    --Jay

    
    I don't understand why you would want to renew the AP every year at the
    reduced rate unless you lived close enough to go often. If you are the
    usual Once-a-year vacationer like we are, then it's cheaper to get an
    AP, go the following year just before it expires, then on year three,
    get a new one at the full price. Over four years, it's $200 x 2 = $400
    for two passes, versus $200+150+150 = $500 for the same four years'
    worth the other way. Am I missing something?
    
    We pretty much go every year as we like it there (big surprise), and we
    have many relatives in the area (Central Florida). Two years ago, we
    decided on the above strategy: namely, we bought APs in 90 and used
    them again in 91. We are going this year and will use them again next
    year. Four years, Two passes. It works out cheaper. Of course, if you
    live near enough so you can go a lot as oposed to once a year, then the
    plan fails...
    
    By the way, I don't think we point out to newcomers certain benefits of
    the APs very often. Namely that parking is free with a AP. This saves
    you $4 a day. Also, obviously you don't have to stand in those long
    lines to buy passes; you just walk in; a big benefit to us. And there
    are other benefits in addition to the cost savings.
    
    Regards, Jim (we're getting close...)
    
    

>   Over four years, it's $200 x 2 = $400 for two passes, versus
>   $200+150+150 = $500 for the same four years' worth the other way. Am I
>   missing something?
 
    You're missing something.  

    The reason it MAY be a good deal to buy the renewal even if you're not
    going to use it right away is that you are really only buying renewal
    certificates.  The 1 year clock doesn't start until you get your real
    photo passport even if you don't use them for two years. So you still
    get the cheaper renewal price, and are protected against price
    increases.  Your four year calculation now becomes: $200+150=$350, not
    $500, or even $400.

    The down side is you are giving Disney use of your money all that time,
    with out collecting interest.  I'll leave it as a exercise for you to
    figure out if that is worth it.

    Our trip plans are firming up, and as they do they raise questions.....
    
    This one is regarding the APs:
    
    The prices in here for an AP adult, first timer is quoted as $200.
    Somewhere else the 8-day pass is quoted as $202.75
    
    Why would anyone buy an 8-day pass? Or am I missing some nuance?
    
    JK

    Rep to <<< Note 150.99 by VOGON::KAPPLER "Spontaneity is fine in it's place...." >>>

>    The prices in here for an AP adult, first timer is quoted as $200.
>    Somewhere else the 8-day pass is quoted as $202.75
>    Why would anyone buy an 8-day pass? Or am I missing some nuance?

    As I  and  others have stated in here, the reason I would pick an 8 day
    Superpass over an annual, is beacuse the  annual  is  not  a  Superpass
    (like the 8 day), it only is for the 3 main parks.  By the time you add
    the  riders  for Typhoon Lagoon, River Country and Pleasure  Island  it
    approaches closer to $300.  If I knew I wasn't  going to go back within
    a  year  and  would be spending about 2 weeks I'd opt  for  the  8  day
    superpass, do a couple of days in the main parks along with  a  lot  of
    Typhoon Lagoon  and  Pleasure  Ilsand  the  first  week, and finish the
    second week doing  the  3  Main  Parks  and swiming at the Hotel pools.
    Other might do it  diferently  but  this  is how I'd do it and still be
    relaxed and fell I got my money worth.
    
    Claude

    Annuals are definitely worth it if you can swing two trips in a 12
    month period. The adders are expensive unless you plan to use them
    almost daily.
    
    For those people spending two weeks or more in Orlando an Annual is
    great because you don't have to worry about using up a day here and
    there when you don't get as much time in the parks.
    
    For instance, if you visited Sea World from 9-4 and then decided to
    spend the evening at one of the parks you'd be using a day from a super
    pass and may not feel like you're getting your money's worth.
    
    The Super Pass does offer more flexibility because of it's PI, TL, DI,
    RC admission.
    
    Either way I strongly suggest you map out your vacation and make sure
    you have a pretty good idea as to how many Disney Theme Park admission
    days you'll need, where else you'll be going (SW, US, BG, etc.) before
    making your decision.
    
    Mike
    
    

    
    Yes, I concur also. We are WDW veterans. The decision is simple. First
    ask yourself, "am I going to be able to go twice in the 12 months?". If
    not, the AP still may make sense if you intend to go into the parks at
    least 6 days (break even on AP, and parking is free). If you are doing
    one trip in a calendar year, I agree that the best deal is probably the
    Superpass, giving you all the other stuff, unless you don't have any
    interest in the other stuff like PI,RC,TL. For example, my parents
    don't ever do any of that stuff. They only want the 3 parks, hence they
    never get Superpasses.
    
    The Annual Pass is good for those who can go several times in a year or
    more, even considering the cost of the AP add-ons for the "other
    stuff". It's still cheaper if you can go many times (most can't).Bear
    in mind that the Superpasses are really two parts, as mentioned. There
    is the 3 parks part which is good forever. The "other stuff" part is
    only good for 'x' consecutive days from first use. Hence that part is
    no good the next trip. With an AP with the riders, it's all good for
    the whole year.
    
    For those who like the "other stuff" and are hitting WDW once in many
    years, the Superpass is the only choice.
    
    The rest are in between. But most fall into the first two categories.
    
    
    I hope we aren't confusing newcomers...
    
    Regards, Jim
    
    

    Actually, the only adder I think is over-priced is the Typhoon Lagoon
    add-on.  I think it cost me about $54 with tax after MKC discount.
    Kids are the same price.  I figured I'd have to use it four times to
    break even.  If the weather turned out to be bad, I would lose.

    What I ended up doing was buying a one day TL ticket on our first
    visit, (about $17 MKC), then when I went back a couple of days later
    they gave me full credit toward the AP add-on.  If it had rained the
    rest of the week I wouldn't have upgraded.  I still need to use my
    adder twice on my August trip to break even.

    The AP adder for Pleasure Island was about $21 with tax after MKC
    discount.  Break even is two visits.  I've already done that.

    I have no interest in River Country and Discovery Island adders.

    My big question is what to do for my kids on our August trip.  We will
    be in the World at least 10 days, perhaps 14.  Linda and I still have
    our APs from last September including the TL and PI adders.  I'm not 
    sure if we will be returning next year.

    So, do I get APs for the kids?  If I do, should I spend another $54
    each for TL adders?   Would super-passes be a better bet?  But then we
    lose the in and out of the parks every day freedom the Linda and I
    enjoy with our APs.

    Thoughts?

    Here is the latest on the Annual Passholders' Special for Fall 1992.

    The special is valid, subject to availability, from August 23 through
    December 20, 1992.

    The deal is:
                                                                                
    50% off at:    Disney's Contemporary Resort
                   The Disney Inn
                   Ft. Wilderness Trailer Homes
                   Disney's Polynesian Resort
                   The Disney Village Resort

    25% off at:    Disney's Yacht Club
                   Disney's Beach Club

I know I saw this in here somewhere before, but I can't seem to find it.  Can
you purchase annual passport vouchers at the Ticket and Transportation Center
by the Polynesian?  We have some friends going down who will be staying at
the Polynesian, and I don't want to steer them in the wrong direction.

Thank you,

Joey Hanlon.

    I believe the three places where you may purchase AP vouchers are at
    Guest Services at Epcot and MGM and at the TTC.
    
    The TTC is probably the most crowded of the three. I suggest going to
    MGM (left of the entrance) or EPCOT (right of the entrance) in the
    mid-afternoon if lines are a problem for your friends.
    
    Mike

    I think annual passport *vouchers* can be purchased at almost all the
    places you can purchase tickets/passports (Disney Stores are one
    exception) but you can only *redeem* them at Guest Services at Epcot,
    MGM and the TTC.  If I remember correctly, the only time you are
    required to purchase them at Guest Services is when you are "trading
    up".  This is what they told me in 1989 at the Contemporary Resort
    ticket desk so policy may have changed.
    
    Since 1989, I have purchased my vouchers by phone.  I can't remember
    the number I called but I'm pretty sure I just called the general
    information number and they put me through to the correct people.
    They charge a small processing fee ($2.00?) and the passports are
    delivered by US Mail.

    Here's some info for AP holders:
    
    It's kind of late but there are some AP specials going on between now
    and Feb 13. 
    
    Save 50% at CR, Poly, Disney Inn, Village Resort Hotel, and Wilderness
    homes at FW.
    
    Save 25% at Y&B, GF, VC, and FW campsites.
    
    Best deal is $79/night at DL, CBR, and PO.
    
    Special number to call is (407) 560-PASS.

    	We're planning a late August Disney trip.  It is after the 
    	peak rates drop.  We have already reserved a villa in the Village
    	Resorts.
    
    	After reading this topic, it appears that I might get a better
    	price on our rooms if I have the Annual Passport.
    
    	Question:  We'll be there for 7 days and most likely will not
    	be able to return for YEARS.  What it seems to me is that I
    	should get myself an annual pass to get the better rate for
    	the villa, but still stick with superpasses for the rest of
    	the people in the family (2 other adults and 5 kids.)  I can
    	get whatever adders or one-day passes I need for myself to
    	get me into wherever the rest of the group wants to go.  On
    	the surface it appears that the AP will save me nearly $800
    	on my room, and I get into most of the places I want to
    	without having to buy passes.
    
    	All this, assuming the AP really does get me the better price on
    	my villa for the days I'll be there...
    
    	Comments?

    re: 109
    
    If you can save that much money it is definitely worth it to buy only 1 
    annual passport. There may be limitations on the number of units 
    on the passholder special at a particular time so availability would 
    be the next thing to check. Reply .40 has a telephone # where you can
    buy the voucher in advance to show if requested at check-in. 
    
    Linda

Now that you posted the timeframe I would definitly go for the one annual pass
option.  If the special for 93 is the same as the past few years you will
end up getting 50% off your 'condo'....you will end up breaking even on 
the admission for a 7 days stay.  And depending on what you do, I'd probably 
get the Be Our Guest Pass for the rest of the folks...since you plan on 
staying on the property.

-Jay

    Jay's right. If you go between mid-August and late November you would 
    reap more benefits from using your AP status. It would also help if you
    were a MKC member. I do think AP holders get better rates but you never
    know...besides you want to buy your AP AFTER you get your MKC
    membership so that you save $$$$ when you buy your AP.
    
    Your AP may end up costing you over $200 with adders (TL/PI) so you may
    want to look at the figures real carefully:
    
                           Costs w/AP  Costs w/o AP
    
             Reservation      $$$$         $$$$
             Admission (AP)   $$$$         $$$$
    
    Mike 

    re: .109
    
    The last time I made annual passholder reservations, the rule
    was that at least one person in the room had to have a pass.
    If the annual passholder specials make the room significantly
    cheaper and you decide to buy a passport, I suggest buying one
    for one of the under age 10 kids.  First, a children's annual
    passport is cheaper.  Second, add-on tickets for children are
    cheaper (This savings assumes you would be doing most activities
    together.  If the child goes to Typhoon Lagoon 5 times and you
    go once, it may not work out to be cheaper.)  Third, if the
    adults plan to go the add-on places (for example, Pleasure
    Island) without the children, you'll want the superpass for
    yourself.
    
    FYI - I've stayed in several WDW resorts under MKC and annual
    passport specials.  I have never been asked to present my MKC
    card or my annual passport at check in.

RE:-.1

Actually this past fall.  I got my AP over the phone and received a 'number'
(like a confirmation/reservation number).  When making the reservations fro
my room, since I did not have my pass yet they asked me for this number.

But, I was not asked for the pass at checkin.

-Jay

    Latest Add-On Prices (some may not have changed...prices subject to
    change)
    
    Typhoon Lagoon - $63/person
    River Country/Discovery Island 0 $31.50/person
    Pleasure Island - $26/person
    
    _______________________________
    
    Also between now and June 6th you can save 50% at most WDW resorts
    except for the eco-trio (CBR,DL,PO).
    
    Mike

    	Has anyone received word of AP discounts for rooms/villas for
    	1993?  Last week in August?

I called the Annual Passholders Number and was told there wouldn't be any 
specials this year at that time...hopefully this is just "misinformation".

-Jay

    I've called the CRO twice to ask about specials at that time.  The
    first person said the specials wouldn't be listed in the system until
    some time in June.  The second person said they wouldn't be in until
    mid-July.  In the past I've made reservations 6 months in advance so
    I suspect there won't be any specials in late August.  Didn't they
    do away with stock holder specials this year?  Perhaps they're getting
    rid of AP specials too.

    re:-.1
    
    I don't think they are...there have been specials on in the spring up
    until mid-june if I remember correctly.  Maybe it will be later fall
    this year?
    
    -Jay
    

    re: -.1
    
    Well that's comforting then.  I'll try calling again soon to see
    what happens.

    This information may have been included earlier in this topic but I
    thought it best to double-check with a phone call to the Annual
    Passport people.
    
                              Magic Kingdom Club     Magic Kingdom CLub
                              New Issue Price        Renewal Price
    
     Guest (ages 10 and over)  $184.00 plus tax      $164.00 plus tax
     Child (ages 3-9)          $164.00 plus tax      $144.00 plus tax
    
    Also, in a very early reply to this topic Jim Pappas mentioned that the
    AP people did not notify you as to when your AP would run out. This is
    no longer true. All AP holders receive a letter and a renewal form in
    the mail about a month before the AP expires.
    
    This form requires you to fill out all pertinent information including
    the current passport number (barcode) and the first year you purchased
    the passport.
    
    AP holders are given up to 30 days pass the AP expiration date to renew
    their AP's.
    
    The prices I've noted are available only for MKC Passholders.
    
    You are required to mail a copy of your "valid" Magic Kingdom CLub Card
    along with your renewal forms when you send them in. Plus you need to
    send a copy of your current AP.
    
    I guess things have changed from a few years back.
    
    One more thing, as mentioned earlier in this topic when you purchase a 
    new issue AP or renewal AP the vouchers have NO DEADLINE in which you
    need to "activate" your AP.
    
    For instance my AP's expire on July 9, 1993. I will send in my renewal
    info and receive my vouchers sometime in late July but I will not be 
    using them until July '94 (or earlier). And if I don't go I'll just
    hold onto them until my next visit.
    
    This policy was confirmed to me on the phone on 6/25/93.
    
    Before I send in my renewals I will check one more time.
    
    Mike

    Freinds of mine are going to WDW at the end of August.  AP specials
    have just been posted for 50% at the Poly, Contemporary, and DI, 25% at
    Y&BC and GF.  They also have discounts at the campgrounds but I do not
    know the ammount.  There is a discount for CBR, PO, DL at a $79 flat
    rate with no guarantee of room class.
    
    I believe the discounts start 8/20 and last into late Spetember.  Call
    the special programs office for more info.

    That's the first time I've ever seen any kind of discount for the 
    moderately-priced hotels! Myabe there's hope next March!
    
    Linda

    	DVR is also included.  I just got my already-reserved Fairway Villa
    	room chanced from my MKC price of 261.80/nite to the AP price of
    	$187.00/nite!  Now we can afford to eat there that week!
    
    	So I don't curently have an AP.  When do I have to get it by?  As
    	I understand it, I just have to get one of us to have an AP by the
    	time we get there.  And it can be one of my kids and not
    	necessarily an adult.  Right?
    	

    The difference in price between an adult AP and a child's AP is only
    about $25. I'd play it safe and get at least one adult AP. If your
    stay is in excess of 8 days you might as well get APs for everyone.
    
    Mike

    can someone post the exact dates of this special...Although I have an
    AP I have not received any notification of this.
    
    thanks
    
    -Jay
    

    I called the CRO this morning.  The special runs from 8/20 to 9/30.
    The FW trailer homes work out to $99 per night including tax.  The
    earliest availability they had for the trailers was 8/29.
    
    Ruth

    The (407) 560-PASS number is now "Dining around the world".
    
    Oops.  There goes $.50...
    
    Aaron

    This note is to give everyone a snapshot of the AP specials that Jim,
    Ruth, and others have mentioned. I've added some information:
    
    When: August 20-September 30
    
    $79/night @DL, PO, and CBR.
    
    %50 off @CR, DI, FW Resort Homes, Poly, and The Village Resort.
    
    %25 off @FW Resort Campsites, B&YC, DVC, and GF.
    
    For more information call (407) 827-7200.

    Has anyone ever upgraded from a 5 day Super Dooper pass to an
    Annual Passport?
    I've read all the replies in this note but it doesn't sound like
    anyone has actually done this. My reason for asking is that my
    family (me too) made reservation for Dixie Landings at the end
    of August. We then purchased 5 day Super Dooper passes at the
    Disney store. Then, thanks to this notesfile, I found out there
    was an Annual Passholders special available for the time I will
    be there. I have gotten two very different pieces of information
    from Disney about upgrades, one said "YES you can upgrade", the
    other said "NO you can't".
    I went ahead and changed my reservations to get the Annual Passholders
    rate (if I can't upgrade I'll be no worse off than when I statrted)
    but I figured someone in this notesfile must have done this before.
    
    thanks.....Bill
                      

    Bill,

    I'm assuming your intent is to have an annual passport so you can take
    advantage of the special.  If that's the case, you'll need an annual
    passport with picture at the time you check in.  I can't imagine you'll
    have any trouble doing this.  I think you'll only need to go to guest
    relations at one of the parks, trade in your unused passport for credit
    toward an annual passport voucher and redeem your voucher for an annual
    passport.
    
    However, if you were planning to use a few days of your super duper
    passport and then upgrade to an annual passport then I think you'll
    be able to do it but you may not get full credit.  I upgraded from a
    multi-day passport several years ago, before they had super duper passes.
    I had used all the days on the pass.  They credited all of my original
    purchase price toward the price of the annual passport but had to base
    the expiration date on the first date shown on the multi-day passport.
    I suspect upgrading a super duper passport would be similar but they
    might base the credit on how many of the extras you have used.  I
    can't imagine them refusing to upgrade - it is Disney we're talking
    about.  (I know someone who talked guest relations into giving them a
    partial rebate because Space Mountain was closed.)

    Anyway, if you only want an annual passport so you can qualify for
    the special here's something for you to consider.  I have never been
    asked to show my annual passport at check in.  I do not plan to have
    a valid annual passport when I check in on 8/22 (although I will have
    vouchers) as I am certain they won't ask me for one.
    
    Ruth

    Bill,
    
    If/When you are able to do this please post your findings in here.
    
    I've upgraded from 4-day to a 5-day but never to an AP.
    
    Take Ruth's advice and upgrade ASAP to get the most credit from your
    5-day.
    
    Mike

    I have upgraded a 4 day pass with only 1 day left along with a unused 4
    day pass as well as some of the letter coupons from a real old trip
    into a AP without any problem. The just give you a credit based on the
    unused portions. I believe the process for the letter coupons was the
    price in effect the kast year they sold them.
    
    Bill

    Update to .129 -- I just call the A/P number and the woman I spoke with
    said the Fall/Winter Special ran from August through February 12.  The
    "Black Out" day are October 2nd - 10th, November 24th - 27th, and 
    December 18th - January 1st.
    
    Julie
    

    I am pretty certain that you cannot upgrade partially used 5 day
    passports to AP's.  However, I think that you might be able to trade-in
    an unused 5 day toward an AP.  Call WDW info to be sure, and get the
    person's name so that you do not have a problem when you get down
    there.  

    OK, here's the answer to my question in note 150.130.
    
    (I figured I better do this quickly before Mike calls in the dreaded
     NOTESFILE POLICE to have me questioned.)
    
    I ended up going to the ticket window at EPCOT with my unused five day
    Super Duper passport in hand. I was asked if I had my receipt for the
    passport (the cast memeber said the receipt was not necessary but it 
    would make it easier). I had the receipt so all I had to do was give 
    him an additional $23.00 and I got my paperwork for my Annual Pass 
    which I took around the corner to where I had my picture taken and 
    that was it.
     
    A couple of side lights...
            I was told by the person I talked to in Central Reservations
	    that I could go to Guest Relations at the Marketplace and 
	    they could handle the upgrade...Not true, the person at the 
	    Marketplace said this could only be done at the three main parks.
            Naturally, I did not have my Annual Pass to show the EPCOT
	    parking attendant so I could park free, because I was going 
	    to EPCOT to get the pass. But all I did was to tell the attendant 
	    that I was on my way to get my Annual Passport and he gave me 
	    a Complimentary Parking Pass and directed me to park in the 
	    Handicapped/Bus parking area which was right next to the ticket 
	    window, no questions asked.
    
            The reason for getting an Annual Passport was to take advantage
	    of the Annual Passport holders discount on rooms at Dixie 
	    Landings. Well, as has been stated before in these notes, I was 
	    not asked to show my Annual Passport when I checked-in.
     
    Thanks for all the help...Bill
                                  

    How's this for a scenario:
    
    A family goes down to Disney for 2 weeks and they purchase 5-day
    Super-Duper Passes. They use 1 day (go to MGM let's say). The next
    two days they go to Typhoon Lagoon and Pleasure Island but do not
    go into any park.
    
    The following day they upgrade their 5-day SD passes to Annual
    Passports for their remaining 7 days.
    
    If this is possible it could be cheaper than buying AP's in the first
    place with TL and PI adders.
    
    For instance (based on prices from 23-May-1993):
    
        5-Day Super Duper Pass -  $170 plus tax
          value after 1 day use-  $136 plus tax
     
        Annual Pass            -  $199 plus tax 
        upgrade $$$               $63
    
        Total outlay           -  $233 plus tax
    
    Versus
    
        Annual Passport        -  $199 plus tax
        TL Adder               -  $ 63
        PI Adder               -  $ 26
    
        Total Outlay           -  $288
    
     Looks like a savings of $55.
    
    Mike  

    RE: -1
    
    This is why you cannot trade in partially used 5 day passports.  I was
    told that you can only trade in unused passports.

    All the lodging discounts listed here and associated with annual
    passports seem to be off-peak times.  Is that how it generally works?
    
    We're planning a trip in April, right after the Disney-defined peak. 
    Are we likely to benefit in lodging discounts by having an annual
    passport?
    

    This year off-peak was 18-APR-1993 to 11-JUN-1993.
    
    We are in off-Peak right now and there is an AP special going on as we
    speak.
    
    It's best to call the AP number (407) 560-PASS for '94 info.
    
    Mike

    Thanks for the info.
    
    I called 407-560-PASS and they told me to call 407-827-7200 about
    lodging discounts.
    
    The rep there (I think she said her name was MINNIE I'm not kidding)
    said that it was unlikely that there would be a discount in April -
    usually starting in May.
    
    She also said that the Annual Passport holders find out about these
    deals before they do, so make sure to post them here!
    
                        

Here is probably some warped possibilities or something fairly unique so
I want to propose the question:

Can you actually get annual pass benefits with only the renewal coupon?

The situation:
***********************************************************
In January I will be running the Disney Marathon, so I'm booked in Dixie
Landings (or maybe it was Port Orleans...doesn't matter to me) on some 'Marathon
Package' (which I really have yet to see what is included...I think it is just 
the room, the marathon entry and some pasta dinner the night/day before).

Then I got thinking about bringing my family down with me and also that I'd
prefer to have a kitchen to control what I eat, etc...bottom line is that I've
been there a few times before and for this situation the FW trailers are great. 
So with the WDW cancellation policies I double booked a trailer for the annual
passholders special (50% off).

(Some people find this hard to believe, but...) I really am only going there for
the marathon.  So even though I will be there for 3 1/2 days and 4 nights I will
probably not go to the parks any of the days prior and *maybe* only one day 
after the marathon.  So if I decide on keeping the trailer.  Are there any
written rules stating that I have to have 'cashed in' my annual pass coupon?

I know from past experience that I can get a trailer just by showing my renewal
coupon...went on a trip and stayed at the trailer for 5 days before cashing
in the coupon so that I could enter the park...kind of like getting some of the
Disney atmosphere without really being there.

The reason this is tempting is that I would buy a 1 day pass if I decide to 
go to one of the parks for one day and not "waste" months worth of value
on my annual pass, until I *really go* to WDW.
**************************************************

Just curious on others experiences.

    Current Specials with an AP (from the new flyer):
    
    $79/night at Dixie Landings, Caribbean Beach Resort, and Port Orleans
    
    50% off at the Contemporary, Disney Inn, Fort Wilderness Resort Homes,
    Polynesian, and Village Resort
    
    25% off at Fort Wilderness Resort Campsites, Yacht Club, Beach Club, 
    Vacation Club, and Grand Floridian
    
    Valid through February 14, 1994, except Nov. 24-27, Dec. 18-Jan. 1
    
    Cheers,
    Ken
    

    
    
    My wife and I are considering a trip to WDW in Sept.  We live in Orange
    County, CA, about 10 miles south of Disneyland.  Does an Annual
    Passport purchased at WDW in Florida grant admission to Disneyland in
    California?  
    
    Does a California Disneyland Annual Passport grant admission to WDW in
    Florida?
    
    How bout EuroDiz?  Tokyo Diz?  Mighty Ducks home games? :) 
    
    -Rick

    Rick,
    
    The answer to all your questions is "No!"
    
    DisneyLand has a different AP than WDW. The price of a DL AP is a bit
    less than the WDW AP.
    
    Mike

    
    RE:.145
    
    That stinks!  If an AP was good at both WDW and DL, I'd get one for my
    vacation, and then go to Disneyland alot more often.  
    
    -Rick

    The good news is that there is an annual passholder's special running
    when we are going to WDW in March. The bad news is that there is no
    availability at the Yacht or Beach Club at the 25% discount rate. 
    (In fact, there isn't even availability at full rate for the dates
    that we need.) MAJOR BUMMER!!! They could give us four days in the
    middle of the stay. Somehow going back to Port Orleans after the
    Beach Club would probably feel like staying at the Swiss Chalet.
    
    Maybe I'll make the reservation for the four days and keep looking for
    cancellations as the trip approaches..... (The sound you hear is me 
    dialing the CRO...)
    
    With fingers crossed
    
    Linda

    Linda, what are the AP specials.  I had called reservations the other
    day and they said they didn't believe the passholder's special would be
    extended past February.  Did you receive something in the mail?  How
    about posting the details?
    
    Thanks,
    Julie
    

    Julie,
    
    Try calling (407) 827-7200 for AP specials.
    
    Mike

    I did, and they told me the specials only went out as far at February
    12th.  Linda seems to know something they don't.  I'll give them a call
    back in a couple weeks.
    
    Thanks,
    

>>    DisneyLand has a different AP than WDW. The price of a DL AP is a bit
>>    less than the WDW AP.
    
    This may not necessarily be true anymore.  Disneyland has apparently
    started three categories of annual pass:
    
    1.  Annual pass with selected blackout dates (those days most AP
    	holders usually avoid due to tourist crowds), parking NOT included
    	(handy for kids).
    
    2.	Annual pass with blackout dates; parking included.
    
    3.	Preferred annual pass, no blackout dates, preferred parking closer
    	to the main entrance (which, since the trams frequently don't run
    	unless the park is real full, makes this attractive).
    
    Also, the preferred passport qualifies for 10% discount on merchandise
    purchased in the park, and selected dinner "bargains."
    
    Current AP holders are treated as a hybrid of preferred and non-:  last
    Sunday I got free parking (not in the preferred lot) and 10% off.
    
    tom

    re: 147, 148, 151
    
    I just called back, and they told me that there were no specials after
    February 14. Last night a cast member named Brian (who could be
    identified by his voice worthy of a radio announcer) told me that there 
    were specials in March, but not where I wanted to be. Something's rotten 
    in the land of Special Programs.   
    
    I will call again some evening and see if I can speak to him again. 
    
    Linda

    >>>This may not necessarily be true anymore.
    
    The next time I receive an MKC Price guide in the mail I'll check it.
    
    The last one I received described two completely different Annual
    Passes.
    
    I know that DL also has Seasonal Passes that cost 50% less than their
    APs.
    
    Mike
      

    I may have accidentally mislead in my last comment.  The part that may 
    no longer be true was the comment about Disneyland's Annual Passport
    being cheaper than the WDW version.  
    
    I am fairly sure the crossovers are not allowed (and won't be).
    
    tom

    re: .152
    
    Well, it seems that Brian-of-the-voice gave me bad information. I
    talked to the Special Programs office this afternoon, and the AP
    specials do indeed end on February 12. Double bummer. Sorry to get
    everyone (including me) excited for nothing. 
    
    Linda

    does anyone know the dates of the next annual passholders specials?
    
    Is there a value season (and special) during the end of April?
    
    thanks
    
    -Jay
    

    The next Annual Passholders Special
    
    will be April 29th to June 5th
    
    50% off at
    
    The Contemporary, FW, Poly, Village, Y&BC
    
    

     If you buy an annual pass at a Disney store - not at
     WDW - and have not actually been down to WDW to get the
     picture done etc. does one get notified of the
     specials ?

     Richard

    Annual Passports are not available at the Disney Store. The vouchers
    can be ordered by telephone at a number in an earlier reply to this
    note. 
    
    Names are not added to the mailing list until the vouchers are redeemed 
    at the park. My AP's will expire 6/15/94. I can order renewal vouchers
    at that time but, until I redeem them and the clock starts ticking, I
    will not receive any AP mailings. 
    
    Linda

    Are there any new Annual Passport specials being offered (the last
    one ended on June 5th)?

    The next AP Special
    
    start Aug 16th
    
    50%	Poly ( sold out ), Comtep
    
    25% GF

    Can anyone tell me if there is a timelimit on validating the renewal
    of your annual passport? Kathy received her renewal notice in the mail 
    yesterday, and they offer a $20 discount if we respond within 'x' number 
    of days. The letter goes on to say that the renewal won't take affect 
    until we have it validated by getting her new picture take at guest 
    services, but doesn't mention any timelimit on doing so.
    
    I seem to recall that an earlier note had mentioned that there was, in 
    fact, no time limit, which meant that we could renew now, and not activate 
    it until our next trip, which will likely not take place until fall of
    1996. On the one hand, I'm not sure that it's worth the $20 savings to
    prepay something that's 2-years down the road. On the other hand, the 
    in-laws now live approx 2 hrs from Orlando, so there's always a chance 
    that we take a spur-of-the-moment trip. 
    
    Anyone know the latest scoop?
    
    Thanks in advance,

    Annual Passports must be renewed with 30 days of their expiration date.
    
    However, this means only that you are sending Disney $$$$$ to renew the 
    vouchers. The vouchers are sent to you in the mail and you stash them
    away until you need them.
    
    The clock starts once you have your pics taken down in Orl.
    
    Example:
    
            My renewal notice came in May of 1993.
            I renewed in June of 1993.
            Vouchers received in August 1993.
            Trip to Orlando in July 1994, AP's validated July 8, 1994
            AP's good until July 7, 1995.
    
    I expect to get a renewal notice sometime next Spring.
    
    Mike

    Haven't been in here for a while...
    
    Just got off the phone with CRO and was told that they doubt that there
    would be any fall Annual Passholders specials anymore...
    
    Possible topic for the AOL chat?
    
    thanks
    
    -Jay
    

<       <<< Note 150.164 by NOVA::FEENAN "Jay Feenan - Rdb Engineering" >>>
    
<    Just got off the phone with CRO and was told that they doubt that there
<    would be any fall Annual Passholders specials anymore...
    
Like ever, Jay?  What about Winter or other seasons, did they say?

    Carol

Another question about AP's.  In the price note, Mike expressed concern about
the AP lines being long because the Park Hoppers need photos now, too.
Is that a problem?   Also, the MK was always the place to *avoid* when 
getting the AP vouchers redeemed for the AP's.  Is it now the place that
is the fastest (since the photos are taken where the Walt Disney Story
used to be - wherever that is  :-)  )?

     Carol

    Carol,
    
    We avoided the lines this past Summer using the following method:
    
         - First, we had already prepurchased the vouchers through the
           mail so we were able to go ahead of a lot of people waiting
           in line to purchase the vouchers.
    
         - Secondly, we got our photos taken at 3 P.M. which is a light
           traffic hour for this kind of stuff.
    
         - Finally, we did this at MGM which may or may not have something
           to do with the crowds.
    
    The revamped AP area at TMK may be a larger area but remember that
    the crowds are larger at TMK...although the TZTOT and Innoventions
    additions to the other parks are sure to help shift the crowds.
    
    Best advice is to buy your vouchers now so you can avoid waiting in
    2 lines. Time of day is important too. Which park? Tough to say.
    
    Mike

><       <<< Note 150.164 by NOVA::FEENAN "Jay Feenan - Rdb Engineering" >>>
>    
><    Just got off the phone with CRO and was told that they doubt that there
><    would be any fall Annual Passholders specials anymore...
>    
>Like ever, Jay?  What about Winter or other seasons, did they say?
>
>    Carol


Sorry, haven't been monitoring notes as closely as I use to....

I was looking out to the February timeframe.  They did not have any 
specials listed.  I'm just surprised since I've used the specials 
during the fall and spring for the past 3-4 years.  I guess too many 
people found out :-)

Still have to get there once more before the middle of January...

-Jay

    I've been using the passholder specials for the last 8 years, so I've
    been calling lately to see what will happen this fall/winter.  I
    haven't called in the last week, but in the weeks before that I heard
    nothing to contradict what you're reading in this note:  Disney seems
    to be cutting back on the program.  I have been unable to obtain any
    firm information on when (or if) the next special will be.
    
    I have always viewed the APs as twofold: reward and park-fillers.  The
    current attitude that I get over the phone is "we're pretty busy now,
    so we don't really need you".  It's unfortunate, but I have an answer
    for that.  I vote with my dollars.
    
    I hope that Disney doesn't send this program to the scrap heap, but my
    hopes are no longer all that high.

    Mike,
    
    Last night after you signed off of the Disney Chat on AOL one of the
    other chatters gave some details about a new Annual Passport program.
    It seems there will be two kinds of annual passports:
     
                 1. Standard -- What is now available. Although
                    it wasn't crystal clear, it didn't sound like
                    riders would be available for individual 
                    sub-parks. 
    
                 2. Super -- Includes admission to sub-parks in
                    the same way that the 5-day super-duper passes
                    do now. 
    
    The chatter didn't have prices available, but several others mentioned 
    that they were quite expensive. 
    
    Anyone with any further details?
    
    Linda 

    The riders that are currently offerred seem rather high. I prefer
    not to get the riders unless I know I will be visiting those
    minor parks (PI, TL, DI, RC, BB) at least 3 times during my visit.
    
    Mike

    Don't know for sure, but out on the West Coast Disneyland has two
    versions of its annual pass.
    
    	1.  Standard pass -- There are some blackout dates and parking is
    				not included (parking available as an
    				add-on.  The idea being kids don't have to
    				be charged for parking, only parents)
    
    	2.  Deluxe pass -- No blackout dates, 10% discount on merchandise 
    				purchased in park and off Buffeteria meals,
    				and PREFERRED PARKING (easy waling distance
    				instead of taking the trams [which don't
    				run weekday off-season])
    
    tom

    When we were there over Thanksgiving I had gotten that info with intent
    of posting here and then misplaced it, I do remember though that the 
    Super Duper Pass was $299 and my sons who live there were excited
    because Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach were included, great for
    anyone living there.
    
    We are going again for 3 weeks over Xmas/New Years and if its not
    posted when I get back I will enter it all.
    
    We have made at least 2 trips a year since my boys were 4 and 5 and
    my oldest will be 26 next week, thats alot of DISNEY, just love it.
    
    Terry
    

    
    We usually get a Pleasure Island add-on and find it pays for itself
    with the 2nd visit.  Also, if we are staying at Fort Wilderness, we get
    a River Country/Discovery Island add-on and find that 2 visits cover
    the cost of it.
    
    It's great to go to the park for a while, then walk up to the front of
    the line at RC at 9:55.  "Hey buddy, the line forms at the end."  "Not
    for me, I use the annual-passport line" (which usually has 0 people in
    it).
    
    We don't get the TL add-on as it's very expensive and we're usually
    turned off by the crowds.  The crowd gets large at RC, too, but not
    until after lunch, and by then we're worn out and resting.  From what
    I've read about Blizzard Beach, I'll love it.  They say it will have a
    ...
    
    
    CHAIR LIFT!!!  Of course, the lines will be as long as they are a ski
    resort.  We once went early to Wet'n'Wild and had the place to
    ourselves.  We got worn to a frazzle running up the stairs so we could
    go down the rides.  You don't notice it as much when you're waiting in
    line.
    
    --Jay
    

    While in FL 2 weeks ago training [rowing] I went to the world for a
    quick day.  I caught the 'bug' again ang talking to an associate about
    his trip planning has pushed me to the edge.  Quick last minute
    planning has got me doing WDW trip cost analysis again.  Anyways, for
    annual passport holders there is a special going on right now thru
    2/16.  Didn't get all the details, but I know that the FW homes are 50%
    off...so I imagine it is the usual deal of about 50% off moderate and
    high priced hotels and 20-30% off the budget hotels.
    
    
    -Jay
    

Do they ever have annual pass discounts (or any other kind)
during July? 

Does Disney notify annual pass holders when there are discounts?

thanks,

Doug

    >>>Do they ever have annual pass discounts (or any other kind)
    >>>during July?
     
       Usually no AP discounts in July....August yes.
    
    >>>Does Disney notify annual pass holders when there are discounts?
    
       Usually.

    re:-.1
    
    What is interesting is that I monitor quite closely the AP
    specials...read every detail of AP information sent to me through the
    mail.  Even the useless 'spend this weekend at Pleasure Island'
    marketing stuff that is really geared towards the FL residents...
    
    Last time I called this Fall there was no specials and none in the
    plans.  I'm currently on hold for Americal Airlines FF program [have
    been on hold for the past hour]  Feb 1 the milage goes from 20000
    miles for a free ticket to 25000 miles. (this is also happening for the
    united program)  This started my 'voyage on quick trip planning' since
    I have to multiply this increase by the 5 in my family and it is
    significant.
    
    Anyways I was surprised to hear that there was an annual passholders
    special from CRO when I called.  Tonight I booked a 10 day span of time
    during the last week of April, and I will narrow that down to the exact
    days that I will to.  What was interesting was...that by their
    comments...they indicated that an AP special will appear again after
    the school vacation weeks hit.
    
    Will keep you all posted.
    
    -Jay
    

        
        
    Jay, I called CRO last night and they didn't know anything about AP
    specials.  Did you call the regular 407-W-DISNEY number?
    
    I was able to get them to convert my May reservation from 10% discount
    via MKC to 20% AAA discount, but they didn't know anything about specials
    in April or May other than Florida resident ones.  I talked to two
    different reservations people.
    
    I'm interested in May 6-14 at Y&BC.  What % discount did you get?
    
    Thanks for any info you can provide.
    
    Gary

    Gary,
    
    Call 1-407-560-7277 for info on AP specials.
    
    Mike

Okay.  I did it.  I finally did it.

I'm still stunned.

There are no annual passholder's specials from May 6-14, when we are 
going, at least not at the Polynesian, which was our first choice,
EXCEPT there is a special for the Grand Floridian!!!

I just got reservations for the Grand Floridian for $175.00 a night.
I will also be paying $15.00/night for an extra adult (and tax, of course).
Total comes to $210.90/night.

Wow.  I'm really going.

Oh, I should also tell you what I got quoted for prices for the AP's.
The premium AP, which she says has all the goodies that the BOG pass has,
is $316.94 for an adult with the MKC Gold Card.  I *believe* she said that
the AP that doesn't have all the added goodies is $226.84 (also MKC GC).

If anyone is interested in comparisons (I'll also post this in the price
note) the BOG FOR 9 days and 8 nights is $253.77 for an adult (MKC GC)
and $203.02 for a child (age 7) (MKC GC).  The cast member said that she 
expects the price to go up for the BOG after Blizzard Beach opens, which
will be in April.

     Carol (I'm GOING!!!)

    
    Well, I got Y&BC for May 6-14 for $160/night + tax, but it wasn't
    an AP special.  It was a Y&BC special.  When I asked for a AP
    special they told me there were none for that time - not just
    for Y&BC but for any of the resort hotels.  They said that they
    all expire on 2/16.
    
    Then I mentioned I had a friend (I didn't share any names - Hi Carol)
    who had booked GF at a discount.
    
    The guy from CRO then did a check and came up with the hotel
    special which was $12/night better than my AAA discount which
    was 10% better than MKC. 
    
    Moral of the story is you've got to be persistant and keep asking
    dumb questions - they certainly won't volunteer any specials.
    
    BTW, I think I'll just keep trying the CRO every week or so and
    see if I can get an even better deal.
    
    Gary
    

    
    
    Carol,
    
    	Does Be Our Guest == Length of Stay?
    
    	If not, what's the difference?
    
    Thanks,
    
    Gary

<    	Does Be Our Guest == Length of Stay?

Exactly.

<    	If not, what's the difference?

None.  I double checked with the cast member.  Since I was looking for AP
specials, I got an AP for myself.  (Now I'm wondering if that *was* an
AP special...).
    
     Carol

    
    
    Yeah, I did the same thing (ordered an AP) when I heard that there
    might be a possibility of an AP special.  I thought of canceling
    (I won't have it for another 2 weeks), but I think I'll get it anyway
    in the hopes that there *are* AP specials that popup which are even 
    better than the $160 per night rate I just got at Y&BC.
    
    Besides according to your price note Carol, if BB is roughly the same
    admission rate as TL on a daily basis, and if I go to each water park
    once my cost is:
    
    	$226.84 + $22.79 + $22.79 = $272.42
    
    	vs.
    
    	BOG price of $253.77 (plus anticipated increase for BB). 
    
    	So for me, its costing me about $19 to find out if I can save alot
    more than that with an AP special.
    
    	Your mileage will vary if you plan to go to RiverCountry or PI or
    DI.  I don't.
    
    	Heck, with Stormalong Bay, I may not even go to TL and BB.
    
    Gary

    
    Hey Carol, you helped *me*.  Glad things worked out well for you.
    
    Regards,
    
    Gary

Thanks for sharing that information, Gary.  Taking the advice of some
DISNEY noters from long ago, I have now *also* made reservations at the
Poly for 160/night.  Cast member Ashton will send me a video on the GF,
and Cast Member London will send me a video on the Poly.  The Poly special
wasn't apparently an AP special, and I *did* have to push her to check,
since she first quoted me $225/night.  (Thanks *again*, Gary!)  :-)

I'll view the videos and talk with my party and make my decision.  

    Carol

    sorry for starting this last thread of info [or lack there of...]
    
    Someone mentioned that the current ap special ended in 2/16.  What I
    thought was interesting was I had *never* heard of it and I scan all
    the AP information in the mail and had been calling all fall for find a
    special.  
    
    Do note that it ends just before school vacation and what I believe
    everyone has been told is that they don't have information on AP
    specials beyond the 16th....I suspect there will be one in the may
    timeframe [as there has been in the past]
    
    So even if you have your reservations call in about 2-3 weeks to
    recheck.
    
    Now I have to look up this aaa discount [which I was not aware of...]
    I'm sure it is in this file .
    
    -Jay
    

    
    Hi Jay,
    
    	I was the one who'd mentioned the AAA discount - I think I read
    about it in the internet newsgroup, REC.ARTS.DISNEY.  Someone had
    mentioned there that they thought AAA == MKC discounts.
    
    	I decided to check and for me the difference was 10% for MKC
    and 20% for AAA.
    
    	Thanks for the info re: AP discounts.  I had heard that they
    usually don't offer them until just before the time when they will
    go into effect.  This is probably to fill up any vacancies they
    may have (they probably figure that AP holders are the most likely
    to make a sudden trip - since their admission is not an issue).
    
    	What % discount have people had on AP specials?  I thought
    I read somewhere as much as 50%.  
    
    Gary

    re:-.1
    
    Yes, the discount on selected resorts is 50%.  For the CBR it is
    usually something like 30%...but the median to higher priced resorts is
    usually 50%.
    
    -Jay
       
    

Yo!  All you people going to WDW when I am (May)!!!

I just spoke with the AP folks, and...

THERE MAY BE AN AP SPECIAL FOR APRIL 28 - JUNE 4 !!!

They have proposed it, but it is not approved yet.  They should finalize
it within a week.  :-)

  Hoping for the GF to be included...

      Carol  :-)

    re:-.1
    
    I just entered the conference to enter this news...
    
    I'll be leaving the 28th :-(
    
    -Jay
    

    
    
    Well, the good news is that the AP special has been released as of
    yesterday...
    
    The bad news, for me anyway, is that for the Y&BC for May 6-14th,
    the special isn't available or has been sold out.
    
    I'm going to try again anyway in the hopes that a different cast
    member will give me a different answer, but I'm not real optimistic
    that I'll be successful.  
    
    I asked what the discount would have been and I was told that the Y&BC
    discount would have been from a regular room rate of $210 before tax
    to $187 after taxes so it only sounded like a 20% discount to me.
    
    Currently I have a better deal than that using the $160 (before tax)
    hotel special I got back in January.  However, now my parents are
    planning to join us and the best I could do for them in booking in
    February was just the MKC rate of $193/night.  I'd been hoping for
    a 50% discount but its not looking good.
    
    Anybody else having luck for their vacation plans?
    
    Gary

    
    Well, I'm definitely shut out at the Y&BC for 5/6-5/14.  But
    I found out a few more things.
    
    1) The discount is for the period 4/28 - 6/3.
    
    2) Its not as generous a discount as has been offered in the past.
    
    	I asked about WL for the time frame 5/6-5/14 and was told that
    WL books up first out of all the resorts now - so if you were thinking
    of staying there on a future trip - book early.  In fact, knowing
    Disney - I'd expect a disproportionate room rate increase at WL, the
    next time they reprice as a result.
    
    	GF is available at $199 a night after taxes with the AP special 
    beginning on a Sunday - regular room rate is $300 before tax.  So
    that's about a 40% pretax discount.
    
    	Also had rooms available at the Contemporary and possibly others
    but I didn't look into those.
    
    	One last tip, to avoid having to call CRO and then get transferred
    to a castmember more familiar with AP specials, use this number to 
    reach Special Promotions directly:  407-827-7200.  The castmembers 
    answering at this number are much more knowledgeable generally speaking
    about specials (AAA, AP, etc.) than those answering at the regular
    CRO number.
    

Pass    		General Public       MKC Price
                        Adult    Child     Adult    Child
-----------------------------------------------------------
NEW AP  		$229     $199      $219     $189

RENEWAL AP              $179     $154      $164     $144
          
AP Adders
 River Country &        $31      $28.50    $31      $28.50
 Discovery Island       

 Typhoon Lagoon         $63      $56.75    $63      $56.75

 Pleasure Island        $26      $20       $26      $20
____________________________________________________________            

NEW! Premium AP         $319     $280      $299     $260
(includes MGM, TMK,     
EPCOT, PI, TL, RC, DI,
and BB)		                                            

Prices subject to change..taxes may not be included in these
prices.

Thanks to Ken Steinhardt and Skip Williams.

Mike

    The standard renewal price for the premium pass AP pass is 289.00 +
    17.34 tax [somehow there is a line item of negative 99 cents on my
    invoice].  So in regards to -.1  I don't believe these include taxes.
    
    The MKC renewal with taxes is 284.15
    
    -Jay
    

    
    Check this out:
    
    I'm going to WDW may 13-23.  My wife was making a plan for how to
    spread out a 5 day super pass over the whole time.  Since this is
    a big anniversary trip we decided it would be nice to have
    just ten days of (including the day we fly out but the plane doesn't
    leave till 5) 'go where-ever, whenever'.
    
    I call up MKC and says, how much is the ten day BOG pass.
    $284.99, she says.
    I say how much is the premium AP?
    $284.14 she says.  Looky there its even a few cents cheaper for
    	a whole year!  She sounded suprised...
    Thanks to my fellow disny-ites I already know this bit of wisdom.
    
    So After about 30 minutes on the phone I manage to scare up an AP
    special price at the Beach Club for four nights at $165/night.  This 
    is about $47 cheaper a night than the standard MKC nightly rate I had
    already booked.  It took so much wrangling around because Fri/Sat nights 
    are all sold out on the AP specials before everything else and I wanted 
    to get five nights in a row at BC with the majority at the AP price.
    
    The net effect is I save $188 on the BC room, and pay about $199 more
    dollars for two APs (over two MKC 5 day pass price), AND I get to go
    'unlimited' on this trip, AND back before May 13 next year and not pay a 
    dime for admissions!!!
    
    I love it, I absolutely love it!
    
    Thanks goodness for this notefile and the discussions about AP and
    AP resort specials.....
    
    --Bert Grubbs
    

.
.
.
>    The net effect is I save $188 on the BC room, and pay about $199 more
>    dollars for two APs (over two MKC 5 day pass price), AND I get to go
>    'unlimited' on this trip, AND back before May 13 next year and not pay a 
>    dime for admissions!!!
.
.
.
Since you are going for more than 5 days this looks like the correct 
[money wise] decision.  But remember, you only need one AP to get the 
special room rates.  (For me it has usually been better to gat one AP 
pass and handle the rest of my family needs through 5-day or BOG 
passes).

-Jay

    FOr those of you who DID NOT receive the Annual Passholder specials in
    the mail you may want to hear that there is a special running from
    April 28 to June 4, 1995.
    
    Here are some prices:
    
                  Resort                 Weekday         Weekend
    
                FW Campsites              $25             $29
                All-Star                  $59             $59
                CBR/PO/DL                 $79             $79
                Village Suites            $89             $109
                FW Homes                  $89             $109
                Contemporary              $109            $129
                Poly                      $129            $149
                Wilderness Lodge          $129            $149
                DVC                       $149            $169
                Disney Vacation Villas    $149            $169
                Y&BC                      $149            $169
    
    All prices are per night, plus tax, based on availability. Weekday
    rates apply when arriving Sunday through Thursday. Weekend rates apply
    when arriving Friday or Saturday. Call (407) 827-7200 for reservations.
    
                      *   *   *   *   *   *   *
    
    10% discount for AP holders at shops and artisan locations in all three
    parks.
    
                       *   *   *   *   *   *   *
    
    DIscounts for AP holders at Brown Derby, Poly Luau, Garden Grill, and
    (New) Concourse Steakhouse (Contemporary).

    Question on buying annual passports.
    
    If you buy an annual pass at the Disney Store is it just a voucher
    you still have to take to TTC to get the real pass, or are you
    set to go?
    
    The reason I ask is I am checking into the Beach Club on an annual
    pass rate, but am supposed to bring the pass with me to checkin..
    I'd rather not have to go to the TTC first.
    
    I've also heard of a Disney store in the Orlando airport and wonder
    if they sell fullblown passes instead of ones you have to go to the
    TTC get a picture taken for?
    
    any info appreciated,
    
    --Bert

    Bert,
    
    I don't know if you can purchase Annual Passports at The Disney Store.
    
    If you can I would think that they are vouchers, which special ID
    numbers on them.
    
    Order the Annual Pass over the phone. You'll have the voucher
    within two weeks. When you get to Orlando go to MGM and "activate"
    the Pass and then check into your hotel.
    
    You may just need the voucher to check in. Call the CRO and see what
    they say and please tell us.
    
    Mike

    I have a question about renewing the annual passports.  My daughter has
    a child's annual passport which will expire in August (she will be 8 in
    September).  If we renew the pass but don't activate it before she
    turns 10, what happens?  Can we just pay the difference between a
    child's passport and an adult one when we activate it?
    
    Also, what happens when a child turns ten during the time of an annual
    passport?  Does it become invalid (since they do know the birthdate,
    would they inactivate the card)?  

    
    Ok here's what I found out from the Disney general info number :
    
    1)You can buy an annual passport at most Disney Stores, but it's
    	only a voucher that has to be turned in to get a real photo
    	passport once you get to Orlando.
    
    2)The voucher is good enough to show at checkin if you are using
    	an annual passport holders rate at a resort and need proof
        you've purchased an AP.
    
    3)The voucher can be turned in for a real photo passport at any of
      the three parks, the TTC, or in the Disney Village.
    
    4)The person I talked to said the Disney Store at the Orlando Airport
    	was supposed to have the photo equipment to make the real annual
    	passport but wasn't sure.  Information listed the number as
        407-851-2801. I didn't get any answer when I tried it.
    
    
    

    Bert, we bought our Annual Passports right at Guest Services at the
    Y&BC.  When we went into TMK we had our phots taken then - no wait.
    
    Julie
    

    Julie,
    
    For those who haven't been down recently...isn't the Guest Services
    area for AP photos in TMK where The Walt Disney Story used to be? Or
    are the photos done outside the park?
    
    Mike

    RE:-.1
    
    Yes the AP redemption center is where the Walt Disney Story use to
    be....
    

    thanks Julie.  I found out that Disney stores were selling AP until
    recently when that was changed to only stores in florida...
    
    We'll hit Guest Services at Y&BC when we arrive!
    
    
    10 days and counting...
    

    
    In reply .195 I listed the latest AP prices. 
    
    According to a letter I received this week from The Magic Kingdom Club,
    these prices have changed a bit. Below is the updated price list. 
    
    Please note that they are MKC prices only and tax is not included.

    Also, as always, these prices are subject to change without notice.

       ----------------------------------------------
       Pass            	      MKC Price
                            Adult    Child     
       ----------------------------------------------
       NEW AP  		    $214     $189

       RENEWAL AP           $194     $169

       NEW! Premium AP*     $299     $260
       RENEWAL Premium AP   $269     $240

       *Includes MGM, TMK, EPCOT, PI, TL, RC, DI, and BB.

       Also, the letter specifically states..
    
       "Passports are not active until you exchange your certificate (we've
        been calling them vouchers) for a new Annual Passport Photo I.D."

       Want further info? Call (407) 560-PASS.

       Mike
       

    I received a PI flyer in the mail.  I guess because we purchased
    PRemium APs while there in late May:
    
    Inside it describes upcoming events.   The most interesting is a 
    Sunday Jazz Brunch at the Pleasure Island Jazz Company.  It describes
    the menu as 'authentic Cajun cuisine including seafood Creole, Chicken
    Louisianne, red beans and rice, and more. Live performances by Bill
    Allred's Dixieland Jazz Band."  Price is $22.00/adult, $12.00/children.
    407-828-5636 for reservations, 10am and noon seatings only.
    
    On the outside there is a coupon for buy one specialty drink in a 
    container get 50% off second.
    
    It lists these other AP benefits:
    
    10% off entire bill at Portobello Yacht Club
    10% off entire bill at Fireworks Factory
    $2.00 off evening shows at the AMC 10
    20% off Orbitron ride
    Every Friday night before 9:00pm, bring in a guest free.
    
    We saw two movies while we were down there....wish I'd have known
    about the theater discounts then!
                                                     

    From 18-Aug thru 1-Oct Annual Passholders can get up to 50% off
    (weekdays) and up to 40% off (weekends) at select PREMIUM Walt Disney
    World Resorts. Call (407) 827-7200 for details.

    
    
    Someone mentioned over in the Contempoary Resort note that they
    had received an AP rate for January. Are they currently running
    an AP special? If so, anyone have the dates?
    
    Thanks, Phil

    There's nothing yet for April.  The one running now is for January 1st
    to February 14th.
    
    Julie
    

I just had an interesting experience with the AP specials.  I thought I should
pass on the lesson learned.

Every year, for about the last 10, I've gone to WDW in either December or
January and I've used the AP specials for the hotels.  The rates, until
the last few years, have always been quite good.  This year, however, I ran
into two problems.  First, the AP special rates in January aren't so special
and, secondly, availability was a problem.  I ended up with two
reservations.  The first was an AP special for 5 nights, and the second was
a AAA rate for the next two nights.

On a whim, last night I called WDW and asked about MKC specials.  It turns out
that not only are they *less* than the AP special, there was also no
availability problem. In the end, I cancelled my previous reservations and
got a single, 7 night reservation under the MKC special.  I also ended up
saving about $100 over the week.  Not much, I know, but it's still my money
and I'd prefer not to donate it Mickey if I don't have to.

Anyhow, the moral of this story is to check everything.  It frankly never
occurred to me that the MKC rate would be better than the AP rate.  I'm
still a bit surprised.  If this little tale helps anyone else, that would
be great.

    Has anyone heard of any Annual Passholders specials for May?

    From my latest news letter:
    
    Fort Wilderness Homes, Sun-Wed=$89, Thurs-Sat=$104. April 28 - June 5
    		subject to availability of course..better call fast
    
    
    Fort Wilderness, 25% off nightly campsite rates April 28 - June 5
    
    
    Disney Institute, 3 night Premiere Packages = $349. through May 18
    	includes - bungalow accomodations, Disney Institute Programs,
    	 	   one day/one park pass.  It also says meal plans
    		   are available and you can opt for more Disney Institute
    		   programs instead of the park pass
    
    On the newsletter are 2 coupons for 'Celebrity Seating' at Planet
    Hollywood, ie no waiting. good till June 30.  Doesn't say anything
    about needing an AP so the coupon must stand by itslef.  Anyone is 
    interested I'll drop one to you via us mail.  First 2 requests get 
    a coupon.
    
    
    Also, form the Mickey Monitor - they have opened a sneak preview center
    for the General Motors Test Track attraction that is under
    construction at EPCOT.
    
    Easter goings on - April 6-7 easter egg hunt for the kids in EPCOT
    United Kingdom (near the butterfly garden)throughout the day 11am -
    5pm. Characters on hand will be White Rabbit, Mary Poppins, Alice in 
    Wonderland, and Beatrix Potter herself telling stories.
    

    -1 - the coupon for Planet Hollywood says with a valid Annual Pass
    (in small print)

    
    ah yes...with my reading glasses on I see your right. 8^} Sure wish
    I could use them myself.
                                                             
    

Does anyone know the latest MKC annual passport prices?

Thanks,

Doug

RE .218 - According to the Walt Disney World "Tickets" Web page, the annual pass
is (as of this writing) Adult: $236.00 plus tax; Child (3-9): $205.00 plus tax. 
It doesn't give the Magic Kingdom Club price.

The URL for the WDW Tickets page is:

   http://www.disney.com/DisneyWorld/Tickets/Tickets.html

-- Nina

Here is some more info about the annual passport prices:


I contacted the Disney Vacation Club and they gave me this
info.

Non-MKC Prices (includes tax):
------------------------------
Regular Annual Passport -	Adult	$250.16
				Child	$217.30

Premium Annual Passport - 	Adult   $348.74
				Child	$306.34


MKC Prices (includes tax):
------------------------------
Regular Annual Passport -	Adult	$233.20
				Child	$206.70

Premium Annual Passport - 	Adult   $326.48
				Child	$284.08


(Note: The prices on the Disney web page do not include the 6% tax.)

Doug

    I hear that a 25 year pass for $2500 may soon be offerred to AP
    holders and others.
    
    This pass will be good for all theme/water parks present and future in
    Orlando over the next 25 years.
    
    It's essentially a 25 year Premium passport.
    
    Mike

    Has anyone any info on AP specials in the Aug-Oct timeframe this year?
    
    Last year it ran Aug 18-Oct 1, if there are no details yet and anyone
    hears in the near future will they post.
    
    Thanks,
    Terry

    Annual Passhoslders Special is running from Aug 25th thrugh Sep 29th.
    Garden View Room at the Y&BC is 143.19 (tax included).  Special says
    rooms start @ $59/night, so I'm assuming that would be the ASR.
    
    Julie
    
    

    Has anyone heard anything about AP holders getting free parking at the
    theme parks?
    
    Mike

    Mike, no parking fee for Annual Passholders.
    
    Julie
    

    Mike,
    
    Just show them the AP and they wave you in!
    
    
    Mark

    
    also, if you belong to aaa, and get your 5-day hopper from them, you
    get free parking, and 'diamond parking', which is a *lot* closer than
    regular parking.
    
    
    -raquel
    
    

    For what it's worth, I called on Sat, Feb 1st, and they haven't
    gone up yet.
    
    Can anyone say if there tend to be AP specials in early December?

    Annual Passholders Special --  April 28 thru July 2nd

    Are there any AP specials available during the November/December '97 
    timeframe ??
    
    Is there a 800# to call for AP room rates.
    
    Thanks
    
    Bill

    
    re: .238  -< Any Specials during Nov/Dec '97 ?? >-
    
    Bill,
    
    There is currently a special from April 28 through July 2.  Until this
    special ends, they don't know anything about future specials.  In the
    past, there have been specials lasting from mid-August through
    mid-December.  Last year, they didn't have any specials during October
    because of the beginning of the 25th anniversary.
    
    As for 800 #s, check out note 179.48.  Anyone at the CRO should be able
    to get you an AP special if they are available.
    
    --Jay
    

    Specials for the Summer (July 7 to September 28) as reported in r.a.d.
    
        CR, Poly, GF - $210/night
        Y&BC, BW, DVC - 176/night
    
    Hmm, I might go for a night at Boardwalk.
    
    Mike

    
    I'm assuming that to take advantage of these deals you must have an AP?
    We are staying at the Beach Club from July 7 - 14, but not at $176 per
    night.
    
    Oh well. 
    
    As a side note this will be the first time we will be getting a "length
    of stay" pass. Our past 3 trips we got a 5 day "superpass", before that
    it was the 4 day pass. We like the fact that we can go into the park
    the day (evening) we get there and not have to worry about using a day.
    Has anyone else used the LOSP? What did you think?
    
    
    Phil

    Phil,
    
    It wouldn't hurt to call the CRO and ask them if you could get AP 
    prices. Say you were thinking of getting APs because you were thinking
    of making another trip in a year.
    
    Then just purchase one AP. Worth a try.
    
    As soon as I get to Orlando I will activate my APs and go for one of
    those specials.
    
    Mike

	Not that I would assume to tell Mike how to do things Disney
but..:-), to book the AP special price it is not necessary to wait 
until you get to Florida and probably risky if you do.  The number of 
rooms available for AP sepcials is especially limited this year.  You 
can book at the special price now and get the your passport
when you get to WDW, before you check in.   Or, buy the passport here 
in a Disney store.

George

    George is right....I wouldn't wait....although I am waiting because
    I'm not sure if I'll get down there a day or two early and also I'm not
    sure exactly where I'd like to stay for those two days.
    
    Plus I'd like to see if I can get a better rate...sounds rather
    difficult but late in the day a CRO cm may just have the authority to
    slash prices......rather than get nothing for the night.
    
    Mike

    re: .244
    
    �but late in the day a CRO cm may just have the authority to
    �slash prices......rather than get nothing for the night.
    
    My experience has been that: if it's not in the computer, the CRO
    agent can't do anything.
    
    A CRO supervisor probably can override the system, but may or may not
    be so inclined.  In the days of waiting lists, we have had supervisors
    get us a missing day between two reservations (e.g. passholders rate
    from October 12-14, and from October 15-22, but missing October 14-15).
    
    The best bet for getting a discounted room (rather than having it go
    empty) is at the hotel.  The desk clerks do have that authority.  We
    once got into the Yacht Club three days before our reservation was
    supposed to start, at the passholder special rate (and this was also
    three days before the special officially began). The desk clerk felt
    that the hotel wouldn't sell out, so she preferred to get something
    rather than nothing.  No supervisor was involved.
    
    --Jay