Conference koolit::disney

    
    To start off with, be extremely warned about those little guest
    cards you are given when you register.  In order to ride the
    transportation system, somone in your party must have one.  The
    problem is that you can charge the world up with this card.  Its
    easier than a real charge card.  Sign it immediately when you get
    it and all copies.  May I suggest adding the phase "not to be used
    for charging merchandise or services" above your signature.  Unless
    you really want to.
    
    Where I am getting to is we did use this card.  And when we checked
    out, the computer was down, so they could not give us a final bill
    to pay.  No problem, on check-in they had us sign a BLANK visa bill
    [MISTAKE #1]  to which when the computers got back up, they charged
    the entire stay to.
    
    About a month after returning, I get a bill from WDW.  It was loaded
    with mistakes.  Above that, we were charged normal rates vs the
    Magic Kingdom club rates.  I spent the better part of a WHOLE day
    talking between four different departments getting the bill corrected.

    My plans for the next visit,  pay cash, do not sign a blank visa
    slip, add verbage to the guest card so that it can't be used.
    
    Yes, this problem in paradise did get corrected, however at the
    expense of long distance tel charges, a day on the phone, and
    fustration dealing with a burocracy that most people don't see.
    
    ed
    

    RE: .1
    
    That is alarming.
    
    Disney theme parks have always prided themselves on their incredible
    level of customer service and quality.  I trust you sent a tactfully
    worded letter of complaint to the Visitor Relations Department?
    If not, do so, please!  Disney is one of the few organizations which
    actually LISTENS to complaints and DOES SOMETHING ABOUT THEM!
    
    It is also distressing to hear about getting the run-around!  I
    will take your comments to heart for my next visit.  You expect
    more from an organization which grossed in excess of $747,000,000
    in 1986!
    
    The only problem I have not been able to rectify via the Visitor
    Relations Department over the years is in getting Disneyland's ride
    operators to go back to being non-union.
    
    But I digress...
    
    David.

    re: .1
    
    sorry to  hear  about  that,  but along the same vane but with diferent
    results, even I had a bad experience once at WDW (what from the guy who
    has nothing but good  things  to  say  about  WDW in the HOLIDAY_TRAVEL
    notes file ;^)) , On  my  last  trip,  I  had  purchased  a 6 day World
    Vacation  package, and it turn out  that  my  Gold  Key  card  had  the
    incorrect expiration date on it (off by one day).  On my 6th day, I was
    able to get into the MK ok but  when  it  came to pay for breakfeast at
    the Town Square Cafe, the hostest was polite enough to tell my the Gold
    Key expired the DAY before and it was nogood (you can just imaging what
    was  going  through my mind, lunch reservation at the Diamond Horseshoe
    and Dinner at France in Epcot).  Well I went with her to the office and
    after  calling the Disney Inn office confirm that it was their mistake.
    I paid  for the meal in Cash, went to the Disney Inn to have the Card's
    restamped and got reimbursed for the meal and was back in the MK within
    45 minutes.  The  desk  clerk  was even nice enough to call the Diamond
    Horseshoe revue and request that  I  have  a  front  row  seat  for me.
    Overall all I lost in the  deal was 45 minutes of touring the MK, which
    we didn't really mind since the only  new thing we were going to do was
    see the Diamond horseshoe revue.
    
    Yes even WDW has a hickup now and then, but my experience has been that
    they are more than willing to corect it.
    
    Claude

    RE: .3
    
    Yeah...now THAT'S the kind of thing I expected to hear.  If the
    author of .1 does decide to follow-up, please post your results
    here; thanks.
    
    David.

    
    Sorry too, about the financial problem in .1 
    
    I planned to go in Aug/89 and I'm working towards paying the ENTIRE
    hotel cost IN ADVANCE. I want the "big hitter" (12-nights a Poly)
    over with before I get there.
    
    Had one bad experience in 86'
    
    Stephan's Banquet hall (in the castle at MK):
    
    	- Made a 5:30 reservation at MK opening hour.
    
    	- Arrived at 4:55, and STILL WAITED 2 HOURS to get in, even
    	  with reservation in-hand. The meal selection was "very limited"
    	  for adults (and expensive as expected)
    
    	- Local characters never visited our table during the long wait
    	  for food and actual eating time. 
    
    	- Will never do that again
    
    But, that was only 1 bad experience and compared to everything else
    I did at WDW and what I could have done, it's a drop in the bucket.
    It'll NEVER change my feelings about WDW, a place where Magic really
    exists !
    
    

    Minor problem, but would have been a big one if it wasn't
    correctable...
    
    We originally had a 5 day reservation at Fort Wilderness.  Called
    a week before leaving to see if we could extend it, and were told,
    "OK, you now have 8 days, reservation number xxxxxx"
    
    Got there at check-in, they had us listed for 5 days.  Told them
    we had called and got an extension.  Remember this phrase. now:
    "It's not in the computer".  They were able to give us the 3 extra
    days at check-in, anyway.
    
    After staying there for a few days, we decided we'd like to stay
    longer.  Called Reservations on the in-house phone.  "You're only
    staying for 5 days, you checked out yesterday".  Told them we extended
    at check-in.  "It's not in the computer".  After I assured them that we
    were still there, they gave us 3 additional days, for a total of 11. 
    
    On day 7 or 8, I called to try to get one additional day.  You guessed
    it, they only had us down for 8 days.  I won't repeat that catchy
    phrase again, but I did think of several suggestions for constructive
    use of "the computer".
    
    We were able to straighten it out through the Fort Wilderness lodge
    ("front  desk"), after being place on a waitlist for a day.
    
    Moral of the story:  Try to get some kind of written confirmation
    if you extend a reservation.  Once you're there, deal with the local
    people (resort front desk, or, for shows, local ticket window) in
    person, NOT central reservations.

    We took the granchildren to Disney World last summer and went the
    whole nine yards. Stayed at the Polynesian, the package included
    all meals and use of facilities. We encountered a couple problems
    with reservations on the first day which we reported to the concierge.
    The problems were resolved with the utmost professionalism,
    immediately. The rest of the stay was indeed 'magical', I believe
    we got more than brochures told us to expect. Everything was prepaid
    so that checkout was limited to 'slipping the bill and visa slip'
    under the door the morning of checkout. There are goof-ups in any
    business and Disney has its share however, their appologies are
    most gracious and they do everything possible to make amends and
    to correct problems to make your stay as enjoyable as possible.
    The wife and grandkids are bugging me for a speedy return to DW.

    
    Disney is by far my absolute favorite place on earth.  I am an avowed
    Disney-holic.  Having said that....... 
    
    I find a couple of "problems in Paradise:"
    
    KIDS - Or should I say stupid parents of kids.  First off, I whole
           heartedly believe that that there is a certain age *below*
           which you should not take children to WDW, as they do not
           fully appreciate it.
    
           Secondly, there are a heck of a lot of kids who run around
           WDW with no restraint and who behave like little brats.  They
           cut, they litter, they abuse displays, etc.  And more than
           once have my wife and I seen parents *encouraging* obnoxious
           behavior.  I love kids, but I hate parents who do not discipline
           theirs to be respectful.
    
    SERVICE - I have noticed a big difference in the way some of the
           workers treat you over the years.  I hear that many workers
           are unionized now, and without getting into the good or bad
           of that, I believe guaranteed jobs give some workers less
           of an incentive to "go that extra distance" in this area.
    
    
    UPKEEP - It's getting time to repaint some rides and redo some
           interiors, in my opinion.  Disney has always been the
           flagship of theme parks, and I hate to see even little
           signs of decay.
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS    

    RE: .8
    
    I'll second that one IN SPADES...good job Sean.  Additionally, under
    your "SERVICE" caption I would add the following: decline of "patter".
    
    For example, the first dozen or so trips I made to Disneyland way
    back in the early 1970's it seemed like all the ride operators had
    some "shtick" and/or "patter" to further enhance the experience
    as opposed to just saying "how many in your party" or "step up
    to circle 4 please".  When you went to the Haunted Mansion and were
    about to enter the "stretch room" the operators (dressed as morticians)
    would dead-pan (no pun intended) "please step to the DEAD center
    of the room...heh, heh" and when you exited the ride you would hear
    statements like "we're DYING to have you come back soon!"  These
    days?  Nothing.  Most of the operators seem like they are being
    as minimally polite and functional as necessary without (as Sean said)
    going that extra distance.
    
    <Sigh!>
    
    EPCOT does not seem to be suffering from this malady (yet) but then
    again it is staffed by exchange students and is only a few years
    old.
    
    Or is it me?
    David.

    
     Sean & Dave,
    
          Although quite a newcomer to Disney myself, I did notice
        last year that a few of the attendants at Magic Kingdom
        and Epcot's Futureworld could have used a good head soaking.
        I can remember the sickening chants, "watch your step", "be
        careful stepping on the people belt, it's going the same speed
        as the cars", "two to a seat". Enough with this barking already.
    
          On the other hand, there were quite a few that were courtious
        and seemed to enjoy their work. Maybe it was their first week..:^)
    
       George
    
       P.S. Dave, I too remember those Haunted Mansion operators !
    

    
    
    	RE:  A good head soaking.
    
    	Have YOU ever thought about working at Disney dealing with	
    	THOUSANDS of screaming, crying, bratty kids (and adults in
    	some cases) and even if you have a headache you STILL have
    	to smile because it's Disney policy?!?
    
    	Not to mention being shifted around from attraction to 
    	attraction in an 8-hour (often times longer) day?!
    
    	Tigg~~ who's not trying to flame, but can sometimes understand
    	       their discouraging attitude.
    

    
�    	Have YOU ever thought about working at Disney dealing with	
�    	THOUSANDS of screaming, crying, bratty kids (and adults in
�   	some cases) and even if you have a headache you STILL have
�    	to smile because it's Disney policy?!?

    Yes, and I'd hate it.  That's why I don't work there.  Anybody who
    does think about this and gets sick probably shouldn't work there,
    either. 
     
    The point is, Disney used to find workers who *did* accomplish
    this.  That's just one thing that made Disney head and shoulders above
    the rest of the amusement parks (heck, head and shoulders above
    any place on *earth*) - you always got great service.  Some of us
    miss it.  Some of us think that's what we're paying for.  Some of
    us think that workers shouldn't take the job if they don't want
    those kinds of hassles.
    
    Good service is still present for the most part at WDW.  There are
    many, *many* fabulous workers.  But it has changed, and since .0 asked, 
    I'd thought I'd say.
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS who isn't trying to flame either

    RE: .11
    
>      	Not to mention being shifted around from attraction to 
>    	attraction in an 8-hour (often times longer) day?!
    
    Nonsense.  Disney parks typically rotate people on a "3-4 hours
    on stage and the rest back stage" basis for EXACTLY this reason.
    Or has THAT changed too?
    
    David.

    
�   For example, the first dozen or so trips I made to Disneyland way
�   back in the early 1970's it seemed like all the ride operators had
�   some "shtick" and/or "patter" to further enhance the experience

    I agree that this was a major part of many ride experiences.  You
    say "Disneyland" here, but mention Epcot later in your reply, so
    I'm not sure if you meant to include the Magic Kingdom as lacking
    in this area.  Anyway....
        
    We went to MK in October, 1988, and found that the Haunted Mansion, among
    several others, did employ this "patter."  Maybe it depends on crowds
    or something.  I noticed the lack of enthusiasm among employees
    mostly in these areas:  Monorail (used to be wicked friendly), fast
    food services in parks (equivalent to McD's now), less popular rides.
    There were always exceptions, and we met a lot of extremely nice
    workers, and "patter" did seem alive and well on some rides, but.....

    I guess the point is that, at Disney, I used to feel that you were
    in another world; no papers, no news, just fun and fantasy, perfect
    for a vacation.  Now, it seems that "the real world" has crept in
    to Disney a little bit.

SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

>   For example, the first dozen or so trips I made to Disneyland way
>   back in the early 1970's it seemed like all the ride operators had
>   some "shtick" and/or "patter" to further enhance the experience

    I remember mentioning  something  to  this effect in the Holiday_travel
    notefile over a year  ago, after coming back from my '87 trip.  I think
    the problem at WDW is twofold;
    
    1.  The workers are  now  unionized,  and have had a couple of contract
    negotiations lately that hinted to strike's  '84  and in '87, and maybe
    there is some hurt feelings from this. 
    
    2.  With all the construction  inside  and outside of WDW in the Orlando
    area, it  is  getting  harder and harder to get motivated people (labor
    shortage?).  The workers at Disney don't  get  paid  much, and with the
    advent  of  Dinner show/attractions popping up around the  area  lately
    some people who probably would of worked at WDW probably opted for some
    other place for more $$.  Don't forget that the workers/specialist that
    they will need for the MGM Studio Tour, they are also competing for the
    same  type of people that Universal will  need  when  they  open  their
    Studio Tour in Orlando later in the fall.  And as far as getting people
    to work in the Hotels, there  has  also  been  a lot of construction of
    Hotels rooms outside of WDW as well.  One article I read a  while  back
    stated that Disney like's to promote  from within, but with all the new
    hotels/attractions  that  just/about  to  open  I  wonder    how   many
    manager/supervisors  they had to hire from outside that  will  have  an
    influence on the Disney culture (kind of like that  guy  DEC  hire from
    IBM to head up Finance, notice all the signature you  need lately to go
    on a trip?)
    
    Claude

    Re: .11
    
       Sorry if you took my "soaking" comment literally. There were
      really only a few operators that seemed discourteous, and I
      believe I would have some bad days also if I were in their 
      shoes.
      
    
       George
    
      P.S. You know Tigg, maybe the head soaking would cure their
           occasional headaches.. 8^)

    
    RE: .13
        .all
    
      I don't know where you got that info about rotating people backstage
    but it rarely happened when I worked there in '87.  If it was a
    busy day, I would work for at least 10 hrs.  (My record was 14 hours,
    from 3pm to 5am on New Years Eve)  I knew of one person who worked
    for 3 days straight, by going out to his car and sleeping from 3am
    to 5am and then starting back on the clock.  Remember, however,
    that this was by the choise of the Cast Member, and could not be
    demanded by managment unless they declared an emergency.  An 
    emergency could be(and was) declared if they were short-handed or
    busier than they expected for the day, or during peek-attendance
    times. The managers, supervisors, and leads usually worked hard
    at assuring that the Golden Rule of Disney was upheld during these
    times.  'S.S.C.C. - Safety, Show, Courtisy(sp?), and Capacity',
    each one in order - Safety above all else, you try to enforse this
    without degrading the next 3, then Show, ect...
    
      There were times that saying my spiel began to run dry, or after
    chasing my fourth car in an hour which decided to get out of line
    in the hot, Florida sun on that hot tar made me angry, but even
    after  you are hit by cars that aren't paying attention to you,
    I still had to smile and joke about it, "Ha, That must be a rental
    car, you're not use to those brakes, yet".
    
      Try to feel for them and smile at them, first.  Many of my worst
    days were turned around by a guest who took the time out of his
    vacation to smile or thank me.  On the other hand, there is no excuse
    for rude behavior on the part of a Cast Member.  Bad day, hot weather,
    crabby parents (it's the adults that can be a pain, not the children,
    the children are polite for two reasons:  1. They've been taught
    it,  and 2. This person works for their idol, Mickey).  
      If a Cast Member is very unpleasant, then report him to Guest
    Relations (City Hall, Main Street, Magic Kingdom or Earth Station,
    Spaceship Earth, Future World, EPCOT Center or your resort's lobby)
      Please use this sparingly because it can mean the end of this
    person's job.  It will get to him, usually within a few hours and
    is placed on his record.
    
      On the other hand, if a Cast Member is very nice, he makes your
    vacation, then report him for a Guest Compliment.  These are very
    rare and can make that person record shine.  Perhaps, if you were
    to reward those who do help your stay be more enjoyable, more would
    strive towards that idle Disney Attitude which we need more of in
    all of the service industry.
    
      About the Resort ID's, you can request that the ID be stamped
    with the words 'For Transportation Only', so it can't be used to
    charge things to your room.  I told one guest this who had 2 teen-
    aged daughters and wanted they to be able to go off on their own
    but was afraid of seeing his room bill at the end of his stay.
      He was so grateful that I got a Guest Complement from him.
    
    
    Rich

    RE: .17
    
>   I don't know where you got that info about rotating people backstage
>   but it rarely happened when I worked there in '87.

    Speaking for myself, I got the information from a PBS broadcast
    about the inner workings of the Magic Kingdom (it was part of a
    series like "Business World Today" or some such thing).  Anyway,
    that show aired about 2 years ago and they stated that, in order
    to ensure the "SSCC", cast members were rotated backstage after
    4 hours shifts thus preventing burn-out.
    
    Obviously this was propaganda!
    
    <hruumph!>,    :-(
    David.

	Other tourists being rude and trying to get good seats without
	waiting can be extremely annoying.

	Whenever I'm planning on catching the parade, I camp out early
	at a curbside seat.  Last fall I decided to try a new spot for
	the character parade.  I wanted to stand instead of sit.  (I feel 
	guilty sitting on the curb waiting and then standing up when
	the parade starts.  Afterall, the people behind me picked that
	place because I was sitting down.)  I got to the spot early,
	asked a cast member where the ropes would go, and was standing
	at the spot when the ropes went up.  

	People started congregating there and parade time got closer.
	Right before the parade, someone tried to sit in front of
	the ropes.  The Disney people told her to move and when she
	looked at up us hoping that we would move, she was told that
	we had been waiting for long time and that she would have to
	move.  It was great.  Everyone in the area felt good also.

	The parade started.  I backed up so the little kids could
	stand in front and took lots of pictures. 

    I worked at Disney from Feb 1986 - August 1986 returning in December
    1986 to work through Jan 1986.  I spent my first 3 months on the
    Walt Disney World College Program working in Magic Kingdom custodial.
    I then transferred to Future World Attractions working the Kitchen
    Kabaret and Harvest Theaters in the Land Pavilion.

    The theory of 3-4 on stage and then time back stage is not true.
    The characters are about the only people that rule applies to. 
    There are health concerns with the characters and the amount of
    time that they spend on stage in a costume.  If I remember correctly,
    the maximum amount of time that a character is supposed to be onstage
    is 30 minutes followed by an equal amount of time backstage.

    In custodial, there were a dozen college students working and we
    complained because we were working 6 days a week for 6 hours a shift.
    We talked to our supervisor and he said that the business dictated the
    hours we worked.  You should also know that Disney has 3 standings for
    employees.  You have the CT, CR and FT otherwise known as Casual
    Temporary, Casual Regular, and Full Time.  A CT is a seasonal worker
    with no benefits.  A CR is a worker who puts at least 20 hours a week.
    This is usually the local high school and college students level.
    Finally, the FT is only guaranteed 30 hours of scheduled work each
    week.  FT gets medical, dental, free park admission, a main gate pass,
    and 20% discount on merchandise.  After 3 years of FT status, you
    receive 33% discount on merchandise.
    
    Disney has always had unions, but they haven't been that active.  Any
    person working for Disney, whether or not they pay dues is a member of
    the union I as a CT worker could have called for a strike.  The unions
    are not causing the problem so much as the Disney philosophy.  Disney
    feels that you should be honored to work for them and this is reflected
    in their pay.  Disney almost had a strike last November (88).  The
    starting wage for a full time employee was $4.65/hr and you would top
    out after 5 years at $6.95/hr.  In May of 1988, the wages were raised
    from the $4.65 to $4.85 with some jobs starting at $5.05 (custodial and
    maids especially)  The almost strike brought higher wages immediately
    and more over the next 3 years.  I heard that the immediate increase
    was $0.25, but I'm not sure on that fact.
    
    Working for Disney means that you must have the "Disney Look."  That
    means short hair for the guys and controlled hair for the women.  One
    ring per hand unless it was a wedding set.  No necklaces, bracelets, or
    anklets.  Men are not allowed to have beards or mustaches.  Women must
    go light on the makeup with natural tones and no eye shadow or eye
    liner although they can wear mascara.  And there are other details to
    the "Disney Look." 
    
    Working there also means that you are on the time clock.  Your ID is
    your key to the ETR (electronic time recording) system.  When your
    schedule says that you are working from 2:15pm to 10:45pm that means
    that you are to be dressed, punched in, and at your station at 2:15.
    Failure to do so means docked pay.  The time I gave is an 8 hour shift
    with a 30 minute unpaid lunch.  Working 8 hours also entitles me to 2
    breaks 15 minutes in length.  In custodial, I am scheduled for two
    breaks and that's it.  In attractions, it depends on your co-workers as
    to how many breaks you received.  I would punch out at 10:25.  Disney
    gives you what they call "walk time" where you leave 20 minutes early
    and they pay you for that time.  It's a compensation for the time
    necessary to change clothes, get to the work sight, etc.  The 20
    minutes usually does not cover the time that you spent getting ready.
    
    You can see that it is very demanding and that you have to smile all
    the time.  I noticed since I left in 87 that the parks have gone down
    in both friendliness and cleanliness.  Disney is reaching for the
    bottom of the barrel for help right now.  At one point in time they
    hired one out of every 15 people who applied.  It's almost 1 out of
    every 2 right now.  During the Easter weeks of 1986, Disney hired buses
    to bring in local students to work the food and custodial positions.
    The attraction positions are the first positions to be filled and the
    custodial are the last so eventually it had  to happen that the parks
    start to get cob webby.
    
    If you feel that the parks or cast members are not up to snuff, write a
    letter from home letting them know your feelings.  Disney is very
    conscience of their public image.  After all, you are spending your
    extra dollars and you can spend them any way you want.  Name names,
    locations, dates and times.  If the Cast Member did wrong, they will be
    told, but at the same time, note the positive aspects.  It's just as
    important to name those cast members who did their best to help you.  I
    received a guest complement and I had several of my supervisors, the
    area supervisor, and the area manager personally congratulate me.  It
    made me feel good and it let them know that I was doing my job.  If you
    can, say something at the guest relations while you are there, but also
    follow up with a letter stating the same thoughts.  Disney looks upon
    letters sent very highly since you had the thoughts after your trip and
    you took the effort to write them.  Also letters get published in the
    Cast Member paper the "Eyes and Ears."  That way, everyone can see that
    you have done your job well. 
    
    The Walt Disney College Program is designed to help with the employee
    shortage.  Although, the program used to be highly competitive, it has 
    declined in its attractiveness.  The jobs are entry level and the
    students get the bottom of the barrel hours.  Many students will not
    work under those conditions.

    The last reason why Disney is so short of help has to do with their
    promotion policy.  The policy is supposed to be "promote from within". 
    Well, there are so many people in entry level and so few of the
    Professional Staff (Supervisors and Managers) that the competition is
    really keen and a good performance record is not always the key to
    promotion. 

    Disney expects perfect behavior at all time from their Cast Members.  I
    saw a custodian jump in between a boy friend who was hitting his date.
    The boy friend swung and hit the custodian.  The custodian swung back.
    After security arrived, the custodian was escorted to the locker room,
    changed, and then to the parking lot.  He was fired.  The reason:  he
    had a chance to get away from the situation and he didn't.

    Disney expects a lot from their Cast Members (remember, they put on a
    show so you are a cast member cast for a role in their show).  There
    are high levels of expectations from both the guests and professional
    staff that the entry level gets burned out or frustrated and as a
    result, the overall show quality goes down.

    Thanks, Joel, that was real interesting.  Quite an inside view.
        
�                                                                  Disney
�   feels that you should be honored to work for them and this is reflected
�   in their pay.  Disney almost had a strike last November (88).

    Me and my wife were there for our honeymoon during that time.  You
    couldn't turn on the radio or TV without hearing about it.  The
    Orlando paper that got left outside our hotel room door every morning
    usually had a headline about it.
    
    We even had a cast member talk to us about it, pretty low-key, but
    it seemed like he was trying to get some public support/sympathy.

    We were glad they didn't strike, but it sort of left a gloom over
    some of our stay to have to worry about it.
    
    What I'm wondering is - what has changed?  You mentioned a lot of
    things and a lot of reasons why things can be tough for a Disney
    worker, but what has changed?  The reason I ask is because your
    insights seem to be things that have always been there, but I remeber
    when it did seem quite different there.  Why do I notice it now?
    Is it just that WDW has gotten *so* big.
    
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

>>    What I'm wondering is - what has changed?  You mentioned a lot of
>>    things and a lot of reasons why things can be tough for a Disney
>>    worker, but what has changed?  The reason I ask is because your
>>    insights seem to be things that have always been there, but I remeber
>>    when it did seem quite different there.  Why do I notice it now?
>>    Is it just that WDW has gotten *so* big.
 
    	Well, to me, it seems that because the parks are so big
    	now (especially now that MGM has opened), their turnaround
    	for employees demands alot more, too.
    
    	This means, like Joel said, that rather than being able
    	to have a select choice of what they would REALLY like
    	employed at Disney, they now have to pick just about
    	anyone that walks in to meet their high demand of employees.
    
    	The people getting hired now don't care if the guest is
    	happy, they're just concerned with getting their pay and
    	being able to boast that they work for Disney.
    
    	(My humble two cents worth anyway)
    
    	Tigg~~~   
SEAN/BEER=LABATTS

    
    I have had problems with Disney services. While I was as WDW
    last April, I sent in a roll of film for processing. It was
    lost, and although they promised to locate the film and send
    it to me, June has arrived, and no film. I also ordered flowers
    for my wife for our anniversary, and although they arrived (later
    than promised), the quality was TERRIBLE. I would have done
    better going into the woods and collecting branches.
    
    Does anyone know the address of the WDW customer services or
    customer relations department. I guess it's time for a letter.
    
    Gary                                    

rep to < Note 21.23 by DELNI::G_MCCOY >
    
>    Does anyone know the address of the WDW customer services or
>    customer relations department. I guess it's time for a letter.
    
    Gary,
    
    I don't  have  the  info  on  this,  but a phone call to WDW Info (407)
    824-4321, they should be able to give you the address.
    
    Claude

    re: Disney feels that you should be honored to work for them and
        this is reflected in their pay.
    
    But I guess this does not apply to the executives.
    
    mike

    
    
    	Well, it seems that my best buddy who has worked for the
    	Rat (I'll explain why he's a Rat later) for a little over
    	three years has decided to leave the nest...
    
    	She's worked her way up to a decent wage (I won't go into
    	specifics) writing programs, using Lotus 1-2-3, doing 
    	spreadsheets, etc.  
    
    	She has now found out that they are hiring folks right off
    	the street - without ANY knowledge - for CRO (where she first
    	began) at .03 MORE than what she's making!!!
    
    	.03 does not make a big difference, but when you've put your
    	heart and soul into a company, only to have them be nice enough
    	to bump you UP to minumum wage after writing programs, etc.
    	for them...
    
    	Well, I'd quit too!!
    
    	Tigga~~~

    Didn't know if this is where this belongs so feel free to move it.
    
    My mom called last night, she lives in Ocala, Florida.  It seems
    some 13 year old boy drowned at River Country late Monday afternoon.
    He was with a day camp and no lifeguards or couselors found him for
    quite some time they couldn't revive him.
    
    The same night some 13-14 year old snuck out of his hotel room at the
    Court of Flags to go swimming and he also drowned.
    
    

    I was thinking about how safe WDW was the other night and how sometimes
    euphoria can make you forget about reality and what can happen.
    
    A death is devastating but to have it happen there is 10 fold.
    
    Mike_who_is_wondering_how_they_will_handle_Typhoon_Lagoon

I have never been to RC, but when at Typhoon Lagoon I was surprised at the
number of life guards in the park.  The tube ride river that flows (so to
speak) around the park had enough guards that no part of the river was
invisble to a guard at any time.  Also, on the speed slide, there was a
guard at the bottom who signaled the guard at the top when sliders
could safely be released.  The salt water snorkel pool had what seemed like
more guards than customers.  The one area that I might be concerned about
would be the wave pool.  It has many guards as well, but is quite large and
full of people.  And when a wave comes, you could never identify a swimmer
who is really in trouble.  It is a mass of humanity and water for about 15
seconds.  Certainly plenty of time for someone to go under and stay there.
The signs say to use the attractions only if you are a strong swimmer.  So
many non-swimmers seem to drown in areas that I wouldn't go near if I didn't
know how to swim.

One other note.  I friend of ours was injured on the TL corkscrew slide a
couple of weeks ago.  He was rammed from the rear buy a woman who didn't
wait for the "go" signal from the guard.  It turns out that she was not
English speaking and the guard at the top of the slide was using verbal
commands to start the sliders and she apparently mis-intepreted the
command.

>    < Note 3.12 by VINO::PALMIERI >
    
> One other note.  I friend of ours was injured on the TL corkscrew slide a
> couple of weeks ago.  He was rammed from the rear buy a woman who didn't
> wait for the "go" signal from the guard.  It turns out that she was not
> English speaking and the guard at the top of the slide was using verbal
> commands to start the sliders and she apparently mis-intepreted the
> command.

    A couple of years ago at River Country, I saw many instances of
    non-English-speaking guests (Brazillian, in this case) that could-not, 
    did-not, or out_and_out refused-to understand the Life-Guards.
    They were doing things such as 1 person going down the water-slide
    immediately following another (not waiting for safe gap), 2 people
    using the swing at the same time, etc...  In fact, there was one
    instance of a girl who would sit at the very bottom of a slide and
    refuse to budge.
    
    Personally, I think that (if they aren't already) the Life-Guards
    should be versed in saying "no" in various native tongue as well
    as how to best convey the message visually.  Perhaps there could
    be some universal sign indicating that a Life-Guard whistle means
    -Attention-.
    
    Finally, I think they (the Life-Guards) should take a firm stand
    and not allow antics such as the above continue to carry on.  On
    this day, I'd have just assumed they throw the whole lot of 'em 
    out (the Brazillians causing trouble, that is) because of their 
    flagrent disregard of the Life-Guards and for safety for others.
    Thank goodness it started raining and they ended up leaving.
     
-Andy

    You don't have to a be a UN interpreter to know how to say "No!"
    
    Fortunately my family isn't into doing TL when we head down to WDW.
    
    356_days_away

    Do I have a story about the Brazilian tourists.  I worked the 4th
    of July back in 1986.  I didn't have to work, since the holiday
    fell on my regularly scheduled day off, but I wanted to be a team
    member and help out.  My stipulation was that I work the morning
    so that I could see the fireworks that night.  No problem said
    management.
    
    Well, I worked like I have never worked before!  I was scheduled
    for the Kitchen Kabaret.  We ended up going to crowd control for
    the building (only 1200 people are supposed to be in the building
    at once) at 9:30ish.  This is not suprising since the crowds were
    so great they opened an hour (7:30) earlier that day.  Crowd control
    for the building was not released until almost 5pm which is pretty
    unheard of.  The usual summer crowds caused crowd control between
    11 and 1:30, lunch time.
    
    There were 4 of us working the attraction on seperate rotations.
    This means that we were not responsible for admitting people into
    the building.  With one person on break that left 3 of us actually
    running the attraction, 2 for pre-show and 1 for theater.
    
    The Brazilian tour guides usually have an orange flag or penant
    to signal their group.  The group would go on the Land Boat ride
    and the guide would stay at the unloading area waiting for their
    group.  I would then go over to the guide and let them know what
    the wait time was before the show began to help the traffice flow
    in general.
    
    What would happen?  They would wait until the last minute to come
    into the pre-show area and only 1/2 of the group would make it in
    before my counter said no more.  I would the cut them off and they
    would get upset.  In English they would say that they were with
    some people inside and that they needed to stay together.  I would
    inform them that I didn't have seating for them.  They said they
    would sit on the floor.  I would respond with the line about the
    limit of the room as determined by the fire marshall.  I would then
    put up the rope to seperate the enterance from the pre-show area.
    
    As I'm giving the spiel to the audience, they would drop the rope
    and enter severely overloading the area.  I would finish my spiel
    and then kick them out.  I had my tricks to know who was "in" and
    who was "out."
    
    During the spiel I give them the "For the courtesy of the other
    guests sitting in the theater we ask that you kindly refrain from
    any eating, drinking, smoking, or the use of flash photography."
    They ignored this for the first few shows so I asked a tour guide
    how to say it in the language of Brazil.  One guide was kind enough
    to give it to me in spanish and portugese.  I would then add this
    to the speil at the end.  But, they kept ignoring my instructions.
    
    This went on for the whole day!!  By the time I left at 4, I was
    burnt.  The joke among the cast members that day was "I hope the
    last person out of the country turned out the lights!"  Most of
    the tour groups were loud, rude and very inconsiderate.  Talking
    to the tour guides did no good most of the time.
    
    After work, I went home, showered, grabed my camera and tripod,
    and returned to EPCOT Center.  I then staked myself at the enterance
    to the World Showcase Lagoon right next to the fence at 8:00 for
    the 10:00 Laserphonic Fantasy (now Illuminations).  I set up my
    tripod and was ready for the show.  I was not the only one who got
    there early. Those of us who got there early had a great time.
    
    Around 9:30 the tour groups started to arrive sitting 20' or more
    from the fence around the lagoon.  I was prepared to take the pictures
    and they were telling my to take my camera down.  I refused.  As
    the show time grew closer they started to throw batteries, cans,
    pennies, and other trash at those of us who were standing up against
    the fence.  I turned around and saw some of the people who had been
    in my show.
    
    They recogonized me and I recogonized them.  I had real problems
    with them during the morning at the Kaberet and they refused to
    sit down and stop taking flash pictures during the show.  I had
    lost my cool and told them off: "I had been sitting here since 8
    and you just stroll up at 9:45 and you want me to sit down!?!  All
    day I have been asking you not to take flash pictures, eat or smoke
    when I was working.  You didn't cooperate with me so screw you.
    I came in through the front gate just like you did so telling them
    (management) won't do you any good."  The whole time they were yelling 
    and swearing at me, in ENGLISH.
    
    In many ways it was histerical.  The people who were there early
    like I was clapped and cheered for me.  And there the were yelling
    at me. I now know that most of them at least understand you and 
    that they choose to play dumb when it's to their advantage.  Working 
    with Brazilian tour groups is not always the greatest experience in 
    the World, Disney World that is.

    re: .15
    
         Great war story!!!! 

    RE .12-.13
    
      Accidents on waterslides such as the ones at Tyhpoon Lagoon and
    River Country are quite common. It is by sheer luck that most of
    these accidents cause very minor to no injuries at all. Verbal commands
    from lifeguards are by no means a fool proof way of starting guests
    on waterslides. On Humunga Cowabunga at TL the starting lifeguard
    waits for an all clear signal from the lifeguard at the slides bottom.
    The lifeguard up top then lifts up a gate and tells you to go ahead.
    Cowabunga takes all of 2 seconds to complete so the gate system
    does not slow down the queue but for slides that take longer the
    only way to keep the lines moving is to have more than one person
    on the slide each time. I have been hit or hit someone on a slide
    each time I have been to RC and the one time I was at TL. At TL
    I smashed into (Yes you guessed it a Brazillian man) he was wearing
    a tee shirt which somehow got caught... and so did he. He wedged
    himself into a corner as he was prying his shirt free. I slammed
    right into him, I saw him just before I hit him but there was no
    way I could stop. We then continued down the rest of slide and just
    at the end I was hit from behind by a young girl. So anyway you
    can see how these things can mushroom quickly!! It seems that the
    water and raft slides are designed for everything to go right and
    there is no contingency if something does go wrong.
    
                                   -Rob
     

    Re .17 Rob, If you've read my Trip Report Part One, you will see
    that I seem to be disagreeing with you about slide safety. I've
    experienced similar but faster tube rides in various countries,
    and never experienced or heard of any injury from collisions, even
    three and four people pile-ups in the middle, because tubes are
    relatively slow. I do agree totally about Homunga Kowabunga, the
    thought of somebody travelling at that speed crashing into my
    unprotected back worries me, and I did see a young lad accidently
    slip under the barrier tube before it was lifted. Fortunately the
    previous rider was just clear anyway, so no damage on this one,
    but if Disney are that conscious of safety, shouldn't there be some
    physical barrier to prevent accidental (or deliberate) early starts.
    On the tube rides, I really felt that they were making things worse
    by waiting so long, people were getting frustrated and trying to
    shortcut the system. Groups were packing into the 'launching' pool,
    and then trying to slip past the lifeguard while they were distracted.
    Some were climbing over rails and launching themselves part way
    down, which is even more dangerous, since they could have been hit
    while totally stationary. My experiences indicated that people don't
    get totally stuck, they are usually bobbing around at a pool or
    corner and the arrival of the next tube just boosts you down another
    stage and leaves that tube bobbing around. But then, I've never
    met a Brazilian (In an Orange T-Shirt I presume) trapped on a ride.
    Re .15 Talking about Brazilians (The organised Tour Group variety,
    they are usually nice people individually.) things have not got
    any better. Last weeek in the MK I counted no less than seven different
    groups, in red, yellow, light and dark blue, pink, white, green
    and of course the infamous orange. They were terrible, rude and
    noisy, totally inconsiderate, and they seemed to have been instructed
    on how to use numbers to get their own way. I saw many incidents
    of mass line jumping to join a well positioned single member (and
    although others in the line were muttering about it, nobody openly
    complained, because there were usually another 50 in the surrounding
    area), packing of good parade viewing spots by 10 or 15, who then
    let all the others cross the road and slip in front of them, forming
    a solid block of 50-100, and an incident which involved us personally
    and left me very angry. We were at the World Showcase Plaza at a
    character greeting, and an orderly line had formed inside the ropes
    to get Minnie's Autograph. An equally orderly line formed outside
    the ropes of Mums and Dads taking photos, moving at the same speed
    as the kids. All went well until it was my kids turn, when 7 or
    8 Brazilian kids slipped under the rope to join a red t-shirt a
    couple back in the line. Of course there was outrage and complaint
    from the people behind them, and the Cast Member who was Minnie's
    'Minder' went back to sort it out. He tried to get them out of the
    line and ended up in "discussion" with the Tour Guide who in very
    bad English was saying "What's wrong with that, we have every right
    to jump the line, we are paying Disney a lot of money and its in
    the agreement that we get special treatment, we only have one day
    to do this park, so we must do these things" She was so arrogant
    about it too, that the Minder came closer to losing his temper than
    I ever saw a cast member before or after. This of course got the
    assembled crowd very angry, but while attention was distracted,
    the others of the Tour Group pushed my kids out of the way, totally
    surrounded Minnie and fed in their own people for pictures and
    autographs. Order was only restored after the minder threatened
    to call Security and have them evicted from the Park forever. By
    this time of course they had all the pictures they could ever want.
    The minder was all for calling it all off and getting the characters
    back in the bus, but the girl playing Minnie, although obviously
    shaken seemed to talk him out of it, and the line reformed and carried
    on. I thought this was great, because many of the kids were near
    to tears, and got a formal commendation put on the girl's record.
    I talked to some other cast members later, and they said that Disney
    was aware of the problems, and other issues such as increased
    theft/shoplifting when one of these groups pack into a store, and
    screen each other from sight. Something does need to be done, they
    are generating a lot of anti-Brazilian feeling throughout the parks,
    and losing a lot of the atmosphere for themselves by their attitude
    of wanting more than regular visitors even though they are getting
    heavily discounted passports.
    
    Mike B. 

    Hi Mike, it is great to hear you and your family had such a wondeful
      time. In reference to Typhoon Lagoon, I was refering to body slides
      like cowabunga and the storm slides, I totally agree with you
      on the tube rides/slides. I have not heard of any serious accidents
      related to the slides, I have been hit in the back several times
      but nothing more than a scratch or two!! 
      The sad part of the whole story is that Disney cannot create a
    fool proof environment, where it is impossible for anyone to get
    hurt. They have designed a wondeful water park but some of the safety
    responsibility does rely with the guest, and some as you have mentioned
    do their best to make the park dangerous.
    
     -Rob
       

    I talked to my parents this past weekend and it seems there was a
    knifing in the Video Arcade of Paradise Island around 1:30 am.  THey
    are sending me the article from the Florida paper, I'll post it here
    when I get it.
    
    

    There was a stabbing in FW when I was down in 1983.  It was handled
    so quitely people on the next loop (group of sites) over didn't know
    anything happened.  And nothing made it to papers.  They came, saw,
    the police (plain clothes) asked questions, and they vanished.
    
    George
    

    I get nervous when I read these kind of accounts.  The spread of
    these accounts are by sincere people.  But most turn out to be evil
    hoxes.  I guess to believe stories like these, I'd need to see the
    police report.  Else, if I were a moderator, I'd consider setting
    the notes hidden.  Even this year reports of children being stolen
    from the Pheasent Lane Mall went around the network like wildfire.
    They gained belief/credibilty when they were passed from people who 
    knew each other.  No one bothered to check with local police to confirm the
    story.  It was false.

    If you really can say you knew the names of the children yourself
    and did not hear the story from someone else who heard the story...
    sorry if I seem to doubt it.
    Its something that could happen.  But lets not make Disney be our
    saviour.  There are things we can do for ourselves.  We always
    used love leashes on our children.  It gavbe them freedom and us
    security.
    
    ed
    

    I too, voice concern that *repeating* a story adds credibility to it
    even if no supporting facts exist.  Prudence and fairness should
    dictate that documented sources be used when stories of this nature are
    posted.
    
    Here in Florida, since the Adam Walsh disappearence the media is quick
    to pickup on *any* missing children story.  With all the eyes on Disney
    I can't believe they'd miss one.
    
    I support the idea that we parents have the major resposibility for our
    childrens safety.
    

    Rep to <<< Note 21.41 by WORDS::BADGER "One Happy camper ;-)" >>>

    Ed,

>    But most turn out to be evil
>    hoxes.  I guess to believe stories like these, I'd need to see the
>    police report.  Else, if I were a moderator, I'd consider setting
>    the notes hidden.  
    
    I had  considered  doing  this,  except .39 claims personal aqaintance.
    When I first  read  this  I thought oh no someone trying to rain on the
    magic by  spreading  a  hoax  (ala PLM in the NEW_HAMPSHIRE.NOTE).  But
    kids do get  lost all the time at WDW and other amusement parks, except
    WDW  and  Disneyland has  a  good  record  or  rejoining  kids/parents.
    Although  I  can't  imagine  a    screaming   kid  asking  for  his/her
    mother/father getting through the Turnstiles without  one  of  the cast
    members asking whats wrong.
    
    Just like any other large place  you  need to be careful with the young
    ones in large crowds (and bow does WDW have them  these  days),  things
    like  this  can  and  will  happen  when the opurtunity presents itself
    (can't  expect  Disney  to  perform  a physc.  exam when they sell  the
    tickets now can we).
    
    Claude
    

    I too am disturbed by the repetition of these stories of child snatching. 
    They bear an uncanny resemblance to the "Urban Legends" in Jan
    Bougland's(?) books on the subject.  

    People often do repeat these stories with the best intentions, and even
    claim direct knowledge of the participants.  When one tries to trace it
    back one finds that it didn't happen to the acquaintance of the
    reteller, but to someone of THEIR acquaintance and so on.  Some of
    these legends have their origins in stories tens or hundreds of years
    old.

    I have hidden .39 and .40 pending replies to mail Claude sent to the
    authors.
    
    Moderate Len

    
    
    I am the author of note .39.
    
    In that note, I stated clearly that I was personally acquainted with the
    people involved, that this was _not_ an urban myth, and that no
    criticism of anybody was intended.
    
    Since then I've been dumped on, accused of perpetrating an evil hoax,
    and several other even more unpleasant accusations. 
                                
    I'm told that I _must_ be a malicious liar and an evil rumour-monger,
    because the person accusing me can't remember reading about it in
    the papers.  _Maybe_, just maybe, it didn't make the front page.
    
    This is what I get for trying to point out hazards ?  I thought
    Digital people were supposed to trust each other.
    
    Ian 
    (Disgusted)

    It's not my intention to *dump* on anybody and no noter should take
    this personally.  I don't believe there is anything materialistically
    that we shoud accept on *BLIND FAITH*.  Many things in the world today
    cause people to more sceptical that in prior times.  Asking for a piece
    of confirming information should not be taken as an affront.
    
    Somehow the tone of this doesn't seem *right* for the Disney file but I
    had to speak my piece.
    
    thanks for listening.
    
    Jerry

    IAN,  I am VERY sorry if it sounded like I was dumping on you. 
    I wasn't.  But I was [and am] skeptical.  We just got through with one urban
    myth passing by here.  Each person passing it was VERY convienced
    that the incident had happen.
    Lets be friends again and eat a frozen bannana together.
    Or a marshmellow in Fort Wilderness.
    regards,
    ed
    

    
    Ed, Jerry, & the world in general.....
    
    Okay, I was having a bad day !  I'm sorry if I blew up, but you
    should have seen some of the mail I got !  Actually, I suppose that
    none of my spleen shouild have been directed against the people
    who _write_ to this conference at all.  It's one or two others.....
    
    Friends again.... 

    RE .44 -

>    I too am disturbed by the repetition of these stories of child snatching. 
>    They bear an uncanny resemblance to the "Urban Legends" in Jan
>    Bougland's(?) books on the subject.

    The author of the "urban legends" books is Jan Harold Brunvand.  I have
    a copy of his latest, "Curses! Broiled Again!" in my office.  It mentions
    'The Attempted Abuduction' from a mall, but nothing in particular about
    WDW.

    Brunvand's other "urgan legends" books are "The Mexican Pet,"
    "The Choking Doberman," and "The Vanishing Hitchhiker."  If you want to
    send him queries or accounts of possible legends, his address is:

		Professor Jan Harold Brunvand
		Department of English
		University of Utah
		Salt Lake City, UT  84112

							-- Nina

	Has anyone heard of an accident that happened within the last two
	months somewhere in DIsney World/Epcot?  I had heard something
	about a portion of ceiling falling in on one of the rides....

	Thanks,

	Linda

    I was down there on business in early February.  I think there were
    actually two, but since I can't remember details of one, I won't
    contribute to rumor-mill, by posting what I 'think' it might have been.
    
    The one I'm sure of is the ceiling falling in MK's HAUNTED HOUSE
    (actually a piece of the ceiling not ALL of it!).  One person injured,
    no indication of severity.  This was roughly 2/7-8/90 timeframe.
    
    Maryann
    

    I just entered my introduction this morning, and as I said in it, I'm
    new to this, but I would like to relate something that happened to me
    when I visited WDW in Thanksgiving week, 1989.

    	My mother and I got in line for the Studio Tours Ride after coming
    out of the Great Movie Ride.  We had waited nearly an hour in line for
    the Great Movie Ride and were glad it was comfortable 70 degrees out. 
    During our wait for the Great Movie Ride we got to know the family in
    front of us (a nice family from Vermont, if I remember correctly) and
    that seemed to make the wait a lot more enjoyable.  Sorry to digress. 

    	We waited in the line for the Studio Tours for about an half-hour
    and were nearing the long awaited tour itself.  Yes, we were tried and
    little annoyed with all the crowds (never do Thanksgiving week), but we
    were perfectly willing to wait for Disney (other Disney-holics will
    know what I mean).  We were no more than 3 or 4 families away from the
    area where the cast member greets the guest and asked them "how many," when
    a group of three (two women and a man), actually unhooked the chains
    and cut through the whole line right up to the family behind us.  Then
    the younger woman cut in front of my mother and turned and accused her,
    in broken English, of dividing up her family.  After a lone day of
    waiting in lines, we were not about to let them cut us off.  I'm sorry,
    but that's the way we felt.  My mother (who has an amazing ability to
    control her temper) politely informed the woman that she should not cut
    people off and that we would not let them cut in front of us.  I
    thought this would be the end of the matter, and in a minute or two we
    would be going on the ride and the whole matter would be forgotten. 


    	However, this only provoked them, I guess, and they used what
    English they had and whatever other language it was that they were
    speaking to insult us and make everyone (at least everyone that I could
    see in front of us) very upset.  When the cast member asked us what was
    wrong, I informed him of the situation.   The people (which at this
    point I guessed might be Brazilian from there accent and use of
    Portuguese) continued to yell at us even louder in front of the cast
    members and told them that we had broken up their family, ruined their
    vacation, and that we were "ungodly."  They added many other comments
    which I do not care to repeat.  

    	The cast member took one quick look in my face (which must have
    been red, because I was losing my temper and fists were about to fly),
    and acted fast.  He put us in the front seat in the first car, near the
    guide, and then escorted them to the very last seat in the last section
    of the tour train.  When we reached the end of the ride (which I tried
    to enjoy) a manager was there to speak to us and the people had vanished. 
    That is, by the time we got off and walked over to the manager, we
    didn't see that man and those two women anywhere.  

    	For my mother and I, it was the cast members that saved the day. 
    The manager was very apologetic and informed us that if such a
    situation occurs again, they can have those people removed from the
    park.  In fact, the manager and the other cast members were so friendly
    and helpful, that I felt almost bad about complaining.  I have gone to
    WDW many times before and never had such a problem.  We left the park
    after that and spent the rest of the day at Epcot center.  We're
    usually friendly with the people we wait in line with (after all, we're
    all in the same boat, and besides it makes the time go faster), and
    other people we talked to, also complained of some of the foreign
    tourist groups.

    	
    	The main problems with WDW, I've found, are the tourists.  I have
    never, in the scope of my memory, smiled at a cast member and not be
    greet with a smile back.  When I think of some of the people cast
    member have to deal with (and they can't tell them off), I'm amazed at
    how well they do.  Overall, our visit was great, and we really enjoyed
    ourselves, but that one incident still lingers in my mind.

    John 

    Re .50
    I had a similar experience last year on Pirates of the Carribean,
    there were 2 guys who pushed in and caused a general nuisance of
    themselves (from the language they were speaking it appeared that
    they were also from Brazil). When we got onto the ride they decided
    it was time to video. When the woman behind them to stop because
    it was disturbing everybody else they claimed not to speaka da inglish
    disbursed with a few choice slang words. One of them then decided
    to stand up and video on of the scenes this caused an uproar from
    everybody including me. Anyway at the end of the ride the woman
    who had originally complained reported the matter to the cast member
    at the exit, the two guys then started to push the woman about and
    cause her great distress (she was aged about 55). At this point
    I could no longer stand back and watch this disgraceful spectacle,
    I immeadiately grabbed hold of one of these guys and restrained
    him, (I am quite big and had no problem controlling him). Another
    cast member appeared and restrained the other guy. Within 60 seconds
    security appeared and took control of the situation. The cast members
    and the woman told the security guys what had happened and the 2
    thugs (for want of a better word) were ejected. A senior person
    from Disney appeared and apoligised for what had happened and assured
    us that this type of behaviour was not tolerated. I have nothing
    but praise for the way that the Disney employees dealt with the
    matter. But it certainly shook me up for a few minutes and was the
    last thing I thought would happen. As they say it takes all types!
    
    Chris
         

    My unpleasant experience occurred in August 1988.
    
    The first part occurred on the monorail.  We had stopped at the
    TTC to pick up/discharge passengers.  All of a sudden there was
    complete silence -- the monorail had stopped working.  The
    attendants started telling the people waiting to get on to use
    the ferry as the monorail would be down for a while.  Great, but
    what about those of us already on it?  We were banging on the
    windows and shouting to the attendants to let us out but they
    didn't notice us.  Finally someone had the good sense to use
    the emergency phone located in the car to talk to someone.  It
    still took them a while to realize we wanted them to open the
    doors and let us out.  I bet we were stuck there for at least
    five minutes.
    
    The second part occurred while we were trying to get on the
    ferry.  A fight broke out in front of me while I was walking down
    the ramp.  One of the guys was thrown right at me which wouldn't
    have been too bad except I had our 8 month old in a Snuggli front
    pack at the time.  My only defense was to shove him back and get out
    of the way.  After I got on the ferry I went up to the upper deck
    to let the driver know he should call security.  I think the
    situation was handled quickly.
    
    As an aside, I concentrated on escaping so wasn't able to get
    too many details about the situation.  I heard the guy who started
    the fight accuse the other one of trying to pick someone's pocket
    I was unable to see their faces, but from the slang terms my
    brother-in-law used, I gathered the accuser was of Hispanic descent
    and the accusee was of Oriental descent.  At first glance I believed
    the accusee was probably innocent and had only bumped someone's wallet
    pocket but after thinking about it I realized the crowded area was
    a perfect spot for picking pockets.
    
    As a warning: While I was visiting the Notre Dame cathedral in Paris
    in 1979, our tour guide kicked some pick pockets out.  She told us
    they spread out a newspaper behind the tourists while picking their
    pockets.  The tourists are too busy gazing up at the stained glass
    windows to notice.  The moral is, don't let your guard down in a
    crowd.

    
    
    
    Yes a few simple hints to beat pickpockets. Put your wallet in
    your front pocket an amazingly good deterent. Buy one of
    those belt pockets if you need the room (they look like small pouches
    with a belt connected). You can bet there are PP's at WDW. Also
    Don't jump into a fight, call security thats what they are there for.
    Can someone tell me why people use flashes on a fireworks display,
    boy that really bugs me...
    
                              -=-=-R~C-=-=-

>Buy one of those belt pockets if you need the room (they look like small 
>pouches with a belt connected).

I carry one of those belt pouches when I am traveling.  They are great.  
When I was in Hong Kong, though, I was cautioned to not wear it in back. I was
told that the pickpockets carried a razor.  They would just slit the bottom of 
the pouch and catch the contents as it fell out.

    Why are visitors from China at Disneyland so rude. Most of them always
    try to cut in front of you while in line. Talk all the time, even on
    the "quiet" rides. 
    
    Are they trained by the people from Brazil at Disneyworld that I've
    been reading about?
    
    Dave
    
    ps(I NEVER go to Disneyland in the summer or holidays anymore.)

    I called the MKC reservation number the other day to see if I
    could get reservations for the week of Christmas.  I figured
    everything would be all booked up and if anything was available
    it would be the most expensive rooms.
    
    The woman who took my information asked me which hotels I
    preferred.  I told her I wanted the Caribbean Beach Resort or
    the Yacht and Beach Club Resort (or whatever the name is).  She
    came back with:  "I have a concierge room available at $335 per
    night.  Would you like me to confirm that for you?"  I wasn't
    prepared to pay that much so I started to ask some questions.
    
    Me:  "Do you have any other rooms available in that hotel?"
    
    Her: "Yes, we have a lagoon view at $245 per night and a parking
    	 lot view at $210 per night."
    
    Me:  "Is there anything at all available at the CBR during that
    	  week?"  (referring to Dec. 23 - 29)
    
    Her: "Only the 23rd and 24th."
    
    Me:  "I'm willing to change hotels.  I'll take the 23rd and 24th
    	 at the CBR and I'd like to be put on the waiting list for
    	 the rest of the days.  Is that ok?"
    
    Her: "Ok."
    
    
    I also asked about the availability of rooms at the Polynesian.  They
    had some but they were about the same price as the Yacht and Beach.  I
    opted to book the last four nights at the Yacht and Beach.
    
    So, what's the problem here?  In the past, they've always defaulted to
    the lowest priced room available.  If I hadn't been on my toes, I would
    have ended up spending much more money than I need to.  Is this the way
    Eisner plans to fund new construction?

    Whenever I have called and just asked for room availability, not
    specifying CHEAPEST, the clerk starts out with the most expensive
    and only works down from there. I think it would be nice if they 
    said "Our rates are $x, $y, $z, which room are you interested in?"
    
    Linda

    Ruth,
    
    This past Summer I called the CRO because I was to arrive a day early.
    The person I got on the other line started me off with a $400/per night
    offer for the Disney Inn.
    
    I whittled her down to a $125 "special" at the Contemporary. It took
    quite awhile to go from $400 to $125.
    
    Mike

    This does seem to be the practice... starting with the higher priced
    room!  I recently called to book reservations for next June, at the
    Polynesian.  I stated we would like a lagoon view, gave the dates,
    etc.  The reservations clerk checked, stated yes, we have those times
    available, proceeded to book the reservations and then quoted me
    the price.  Thinking this was higher than the Magic Kingdom Club 
    brochure stated, I asked if this was with Conceirge Service, to which
    she replied, YES.  She did change the reservations to NON-concierge
    service, without any problems.  I did feel it was a bit presumptuous
    to assume we wanted higher priced rooms!!  It is interesting to note
    this appears to be a common practice.
    
    Carla
    

    Everybody seems to be so shocked when Disney tries to sell you the
    most expensive room first...  Why you ask, do they do this?  Because
    they are still a business with profits as the ultimate goal.  Think
    about it...if you walk into to any store and ask for something....I
    would like to buy a car..do you think the rep is going to take you
    to an Escort...of course not, they want to sell you a Thunderbird.
    
    If you want the cheapest room then ask for the cheapest room, when
    I call any hotels 1-800 line I always get quoted the most expensive
    room in the house unless I express otherwise.  Don't be so surprised...
                                                               
    As wonderful as Disney is (and they are WONDERFUL) they are still
    a business out to make a buck (and they do it quite well).
    
    When I made reservations last time I simply said "I would like your
    least expensive room" and worked my way up from there.
    
    regards,
    JP

    re: .60
    
    I was shocked because I was used to a different process.  Every other
    time I have made reservations, they have asked me which hotel I want
    and then asked which view.  I think they even gave the prices.  In
    this case they asked which hotel I wanted and then stated they had
    the expensive room available.  From this I inferred that this was the
    only view available.  Fortunately, I was shocked enough to ask more
    questions.
    
    On another note, I have had two very pleasant experiences with Disney
    today.  I called the information number earlier to find out if they
    know the operating hours for the week of Christmas.  Although they
    haven't set the hours yet, the woman I spoke with was willing to tell
    me what the hours usually are at that time of year.
    
    The other pleasant experience concerns the free video tape offer from
    the World of Motion's Transcenter.  I sent my card out over 8 weeks
    ago (allow 6 to 8 weeks for delivery) but haven't received my tape.
    I called the Transcenter (number given to me by the information
    number woman) to ask about it.  The man who answered the phone took
    down my name, address and the name of the dealer I went to and said
    he'd give it directly to the video tape company.  I should have my
    tape in about 2 weeks.  He told me to call again if I have any more
    problems.  That's what I think of when I hear Disney.

    Give me a break, $300-400 a night for a stupid hotel room that you
    won't even use that much. 
    
    Stayed on Maui for $125, first rate ocean front. Unreal! $300 to $400 a
    night! So who is selling drugs to afford that kinda rate!
    
    Parking lot view for $225, still a joke.
    
    DM
    

    
    
    Just got back from the world this week (trip report being compiled ;^))
    A word of warning for anyone heading down in next few weeks.The Orland
    area has had an outbreak of St Louis Encephalitis but they are
    spraying. The last few days at Disney the started to take precautions,
    King Neptunes Water Parade was cancelled, the Poly Lua was moved
    indoors and all the swimming pools were closed at dusk. There were
    changes made at the parks but they urged people to wear long sleeves
    and slacks at night(good luck in 90+ heat)
    
    thats all
    
    Steve
    

    I can't believe it !  Did anyone you talked to while down there have
    any idea how long before things are under control where they are
    spraying and all ?   This may be a foolish question but is there a
    season for mosquitos in Florida as there is in Mass (although that's 
    dictated by the temperature drops here, too) ?
    
    We're going down in 2 weeks so I guess I better make sure to throw in
    the bug repellant and a few extra long sleeved shirts.
    
    Thanks for the warning, though.
    
    Diane
      

    I also understand that the outdoor evening activities at Ft. Wilderness
    have been canceled; including the hay rides, Marshmallow Marsh Excursion,
    and the campfire program.

    
    
    re.65
    
    Thanx Len I forgot those.
    
    re.54
    
    Didn't get any hard facts on that Diane. Mainly because the warning
    Weds and we left Fri am . So Disney was just gearing up and making the
    necessary precautions. All week there was no noticable increase in
    skeeter activity around the resort, although I did get bit on the MK
    Railroad (and I thought Disney didn't allow the little devils on the
    grounds ;-)) But an ounce of prevention... 
    
    Enjoy your journey
    
    Steve

    Can anyone identify the time of year when the mosquitos are at their
    hungriest? Is it now? Is it early Spring also?
    
    Mike

    RE: last few -
    
    When I was down in Fla. for my honeymoon in June I was getting eaten
    alive by the little devils.  This being one of many trips to this area,
    and the first time being bitten.  I asked the locals about them, and
    they said that there was definitely a season for them.  It starts in
    May and lasts 'til October or thereabout.
    
    Todd

    I was just down in WDW Sept 9 - 14 and didn't see, feel or get bit by a
    skeeter when I was there!!!
    
    I went prepared with Avon Skin-so-Soft and never had to use it!!
    
    BTW - was outdoors every night!!!
    
    L.

    I think I know why the skeeters were not a problem for you, I recently
    heard that Mr. Eisner had just raised the price of admission for
    all insects a whopping 50%.  And we thought people were the only
    ones getting hurt at the gate....  ;-)
    
    BTW if you were there from Sept 9 - 14  where is the trip
    report...ehhhh.
    
    Just kidding....hope you had a good time.
    Regards,
    JP

    
    I wasn't really sure where to put this, but I didn't want to start a new
    topic (if the Moderators have a more appropriate place...).
    
    CNN mentioned that due to an outbreak of mosquitos infected with meningitus
    (sp?), WDW has cancelled nighttime activities.  We'll be going in three
    weeks, so we were a little concerned (not about the mosquitos, about
    what would be closed!)
    
    I called CRO and got patchy info, but it seems like all outdoor night
    activities at Fort Wilderness are closed (what does this mean?) and
    the Polynesian Luau is moved inside.  I asked about Epcot still being
    open until 9:00 pm, Pleasure Island still being open, etc. and that
    all seems to be ok.
    
    I'm still a little skeptical about getting the whole story - maybe they
    knew I'd cancel.  So if anyone visiting or just coming back knows more,
    that'd be great.  I don't want to go down there if a lot of things
    are going to be closed.
    
    SEAN/BEER=LABATTS_who_likes_WDW_at_night

    re:   .71
    
    
    I am leaving in two days for WDW and I hope that you are right.  As it
    is, having the Fort Wilderness evening activities cancelled
    (Marshmallow Marsh Excursion and the Campfire Programs) puts a
    major monkey wrench into my plans.  I realize that the mosquito problem
    is beyond Disney control, and that their action is intended to protect
    its guests.  However, add to this the closure of River Country, other
    attractions that are closed, and it starts to irritate me.
    
    I hope that PI and Epcot are still kept open in the evenings.  I
    purchased 5-day Superpasses, and I'd hate to think that I couldn't use
    it for PI (as well as RC).
    
    Thanks for the insect update!    :-)
    
    David

    As of last week Epcot was open until 9pm with Fireworks etc, and
    Pleasure Island was open as usual. Mosquitoes were not a problem.
    
    C.L.

    The mosquitoes are carrying meningitis (sp) as well as encephalitis
    (sp)?
    
    When we were there they only mentioned the encephalitis (sp).

From: [email protected] (joseph.m.fedenyszen)
Subject: mosquitoes
Keywords: spraying
Date: 11 Oct 90 19:07:11 GMT
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories


  The following letter came stapled to my Caribbean Beach Resort map after
checking into the hotel on 10-4-90. 

  "Dear Guest:
   In the past month, there has been Saint Louis Encephalitis (SLE) virus
   activity in Central Florida, and over the weekend of August 25, Orange 
   County declared an "alert." Although Orange County and the Reedy Creek
   Improvement District have been performing extensive mosquito control
   measures nightly for the past month, there are continuing large numbers of
   mosquitoes in the Central Florida area. Therefore, we urge the public and
   our cast members and their families to wear long sleeves, long pants and
   mosquito repellent when outside at night. The mosquitoes are especially
   active during the period of one hour before sundown and on through the
   night until one hour after sunrise. These mosquitoes are not aggressive
   biters during the day, unless you go into wooded areas where they may be
   resting. However, you are encouraged to avoid mosquito contact at all 
   times.

   If you need any additional information regarding the above, please contact
   Fred Harden, Reedy Creek Improvement District at 827-7140 or Bob Penn,
   Walt Disney World Co. at 824-4281.

   For information regarding scheduled operating hours for all nighttime
   outdoor activities, please contact your Guest Services desk.

   Thank you for your cooperation and we hope your stay will be a pleasant
   one."

    In 1986, I went to EPCOT. In addition to their nightly fireworks,
    they would have an afternoon show consisting of boats, smoke, planes,
    parachutes, kites, etc. When I re-visited last year, I noticed that
    ther were no daytime shows. When I finally got an EPCOT employee
    to talk about it, I was told that there was an accident a few years
    earlier where someone's chute did not open and the person fell to
    his/her death in front of everyone -- hence there will not be anymore
    shows of that type.
    
    
    
    Additional Disney News:
    
    Again, when my wife and I went last year, we read in the paper how
    Disney was charged by an animal support organization for having
    several employees attack and beat (to death I believe) vultures
    on Discovery Island. Very un-disney-like and hard to believe.
    We went to the Island later that week and there were VULTURES
    EVERYWHERE!So many in fact that we wanted to beat them ourselves.
    Obviously, no employee there wanted to talk about it, but they did
    say it was a serious problem. Especially because the birds pick
    at the eyes of the Turtles (Torti?) and blind them. We never heard
    what the outcome of the case was.
    1 or 2 years
    ear

    I returned yesterday from The World and can tell you that Epcot as well
    as PI remain open. The only things they close at dusk are - the
    swimming pools! 
    
    But as there was a lot of (warm) rain last week we didn't use them too
    much anyway.
    
    Have a good trip everybody just going there and give my love to Mickey!
    
    Billie

Please pardon my ignorance, but what the heck is Encephalitis?  A friend 
and I will be down there in 3 weeks and are very curious what this illness 
is all about.  It may be the cause of a potential cancellation of a bicycle
tour we were going to participate in.

Thanks,
Mark

...But I watch one on TV.

To the best of my understanding Encephalitis is a viral disease carried by
mosquitoes.  It causes inflammation of the brain tissue, and can be deadly.

Symptoms include flu-like symptoms and stiffness in the neck.  The young and
old are particularly susceptible.

You might try asking in the HYDRA::MEDICAL conference, or check a competent
reference book.

Encephalitis literally means inflammation of the brain.  There are a number
of different viruses that can cause it, and probably some bacteria.

Some types of encephalitis viruses are carried by specific mosquitoes that
can transmit the virus to humans.  In Florida, the disease of concern is 
St. Louis encephalitis, carried by the mosquitoes that are active in that
area around September.  I imagine that once the season is over, people will 
stop worrying about it until next year.

Encephalitis is dangerous because it can quickly progress to the point of
no return before the person realizes they're sick enough to need a doctor.  In
that respect, it is similar to the pneumonia that took Jim Henson.  Fortunately,
in spite of all the scares, it is still a relatively uncommon disease.

   Gary

	
	I am planning a longweekend (4-days) shortly to celebrate my
girlfriends birthday, I am planning to take her to Disneyland but while
scanning the travel section in my local weekend paper (Ottawa, Canada)
I came across a startling article that stated a visit to Central Florida
could result in a deadly encounter with an encephalitis carrying mosquito.
According to the article hotels and attractions are strongly urging groups
to reschedule  outdoor meetings inside and they're telling tourists to adopt
the same precautions urged upon residents: they should stay indoors at 
night or wear long-sleeve shirts and long pants, and apply plenty of mosquito 
repellant. Apparantly this has been confirmed by the local health department.

	Should I be concerned or was the article I read misleading?

Thanxs,

Mike K.

    Mike,
    
    See the previous replies from .64-.79.
    
    Claude

    RE .80
    If you are planning a trip to Disneyland the why are you concerned
    about the mosquito's in central Florida!  Disneyland is probably
    2500-3000 miles away.  I would think that would be a safe distance from
    the bug population.
    
    

    I'll preface this by saying that I'm aware that it probably costs
    a lot of money to run the WDW information phone line just to give
    out information about park hours and passport prices so it probably
    makes sense to have this new set up.  However, that doesn't mean I
    have to like it.
    
    I called the WDW information number on 10/30 to ask about renewing
    our annual passports.  Much to my surprise, the phone was answered
    after the first ring.  Much to my chagrin, it was a recording telling
    me to push various numbers for information.  The last instruction is
    to push 0 or wait on the line if you want to talk to an operator.
    
    Here's where the real problems come in.  I don't have touch tone
    phones so I waited on the line for an operator.  Instead of getting
    an operator, I got to hear the recording again.  I'm not sure if it
    was because all the operators were busy or if there's a bug in the
    system.  Anyway, the phone I was using is able to switch between
    pulse dialing and touch tone modes so after the recording finished
    I was able to press 0 and was successful in reaching an operator.
    Unfortunately, our connection got broken before she could finish
    helping me.
    
    I called back and got the recording again.  Since I knew I needed
    to press 0, I switched the phone to touch tone mode and pressed 0
    near the beginning of the recording.  Instead of getting an operator,
    I got the pleasure of listening to the recording from the beginning.
    In my mind, this is a bug!  You should be able to enter a number at
    any point during the recording.  I eventually got to speak with an
    operator but our connection got broken again.  This time it was
    clearly their problem as I got a fast busy signal and then a dial
    tone while being transferred.
    
    I called back again and got a human right away.  I started to explain
    that I had been disconnected twice (to prevent another trasfer/
    disconnect) and she apologized and said it was something she had
    done wrong with the phone.  Nice touch in my opinion, most people
    would have blamed it on the computer.  The rest of my passport
    renewal went fine except for a glitch with my American Express card.
    No real problem, I just used another card.
    
    I'm really discouraged with the new system because I usually call
    with very explicit questions that don't fit into the categories they
    list in the recording.  This wouldn't be so bad if I didn't have to
    listen to the entire thing before pressing a number.  Oh well.

    I have a Disney related problem and would like some advice as to
    how to handle it.  When I received the bill for our stay at the
    Yacht Club (12/27 - 12/29), I also received copies of several
    other people's bills who had also stayed on those dates.  The
    good news is I'm not being charged for their vacations!
    
    So, what do I do?  I assume I should call Disney but who do I
    call?  The Yacht Club?  Guest Relations?  I think Disney should
    be aware of this error and the individuals involved should be
    notified since the bills have their credit card numbers on them.
    How do I go about handling this in a diplomatic way?
    
    Thanks,
    Ruth

    I had a billing problem the first time I stayed ay CBR. I was a
    walk-in guest, so had to pay at check-in. I registered my credit
    card for signing things to my room and, when I checked out, was
    billed again for my room. I called the CBR and asked for help with a
    billing problem. I was routed to a manager who took all the details, 
    found my desk clerk had had an overage in her drawer the day I checked
    in for the amount of my room, and a credit was sent to my credit card
    immediately. 
    
    I would follow the same procedure for this problem. Make a joke --
    the bills evidently stuck together, ha ha -- and ask how they would
    like you to handle it. Seriously, if they mechanically stuff the 
    envelopes, that's probably what happened. Disney will really 
    appreciate hearing about this so they can at least send the guests
    another copy.
    
    Good thing they were accidently sent to someone honest!!
    
    
    Linda

While visiting Typhoon Lagoon last month, my 8 year old son got knocked over by
another kid and broke his collarbone.

I've just received a letter from the WDW Claims Department asking me to call
them about the incident.

Anyone had a similar experience?

Thanks

Andy

Just curious...does anyone know why there are so many tour groups from
Brazil vs other countries at the parks?

Doug

    Dunno.
    
    I noticed that you would not see them in any of the non-fast food
    eating establishments in The World. I also do not recall seeing them at
    any of the character breakfasts, HDD, or any other places where extra
    $$$$ is needed. I do recall seeing them at Medieval Times in Kissimmee
    and possible at Typhoon Lagoon.
    
    WARNING WARNING!!! Do not...I repeat DO NOT plant yourself at the base
    of World Showcase Lagoon (between Future World and World Showcase)
    for Illuminations unless you want to be serenaded by half of Brazil.
    
    Mike

    I just heard from my mom that the Disney workers in the Park are
    under contract negotiations for a pay hike.  It seems Disney wants
    to give them 23 cents an hour raise and the workers said no way.
    We know what the executives get paid in this company and they can't
    get along without us, we want more.
    
    We'll see what happens................................

    Those California earthquakes have apparently done some structural
    damage to the Disneyland Hotel in Anaheim. Reports are that the Hotel
    has been evacuated.
    
    Mike_who_is_glad_that_Florida_does_not_have_earthquakes

While we were in Orlando the Week of Aug 23rd our room at the
Ramada Inn Plaza International was robbed of $350.00 and
a credit card on Aug 26th.

The sheriff's deputy told us that he just left the Typhoon Lagoon
parking lot. A van there was broken into and the people lost
almost all their valuables including their super passes.

Doug

    Please don't leave valuables in your room. When you go to Typhoon
    Lagoon either leave your money/valuables at the front desk or take them
    with you and put them in a locker.
    
    An option is to put credit cards plus any cash or traveler checques
    in a fanny pouch and take that pouch with you.
    
    You can never be too safe on a vacation.
    
    Mike

    re: .94
    
    Sorry to hear about your loss Doug.
    
>The sheriff's deputy told us that he just left the Typhoon Lagoon
>parking lot. A van there was broken into and the people lost
>almost all their valuables including their super passes.
    
    Silly question...  Why would anyone going to Typhoon Lagoon leave
    their super passes in their vehicle?  Wouldn't they need them to
    get into the park?  I know it's possible for this to happen (they
    used regular tickets for admission, they were staying for more than
    five days and bought two passes, etc.) but this seems a little odd
    to me.  I have no trouble believing a van was broken into.  It's
    just the super pass item I'd question if I were investigating this
    incident.
    
    Ruth

Ruth,

I am not sure of the particulars but the deputy said that their passes
were stolen. Maybe it was not super-passes, just the four-day passes.
I may have "heard" super-passes because that is what we have.

Doug

To those who are worried about the recent rash of crime involving tourists
in Florida:

Don't be alarmed about travel in the Orlando and attractions area.  Take
normal safety precautions, the same you should anywhere.  DO be very careful
in Miami.  The reason Miami is more dangerous is that the Airport, port,
hotels, and beaches are all very near (or in) areas with high crime
rates.  It is necessary to drive on city streets to pick up and return
rental cars.  Tourists are still somewhat obvious if they are studying
maps, confused about which way to turn, or have luggage piled up in the
seats.

The Orlando area has easier driving on controlled access highways, and
the hotel, airport, and attraction areas are not high crime areas.

Keep in mind that since Florida has one of the highest number of visitors,
statistically there will be more crimes committed against visitors in this
area than others.  The overall crime rate has not risen in Florida.

Since I was in Florida just after the German tourist was killed, and during
the rest area killing, I was able to read a lot of what was in the news
about the situation locally.  Most officials are very upset about the 
attention being given, and while they concede the need for improvements
in the Miami area, are shocked that people are becoming afraid to visit
Florida.

I wrote this because a friend is on her way to her honeymoon at the Beach
Club next month.  She asked me for detailed instructions including exit
ramps and all cross roads, so she could get safely from the airport to
the hotel.  Don't panic!

Bill

I wrote Mr. Eisner and explained that we did not get to fully use
our 7-day resorts portion of our  5 day superpasses because of the robbery.

I received back a letter from guest services. They said that because of our
circumstances that they will issue us new 5 day passes when we visit
again in the future. These passes will be have only two days valid
because we did use 3 days on our present passes BUT, the 7 day resort
portion will be valid from the new date on these new passes. In other
words, WDW has restored our 7 day resorts portion of our passes.

I think that this is very generous of WDW since they had no involvement in
the robbery at all.

Doug

I wrote Mr. Eisner explaining our situation.
 
I got a letter back from Guest Services and they are going to
renew the 7 day resort portion of our 5 day passes when we
visit again in the future. We did not get a chance to use
all 7 days because of the robbery, etc.

I think this is a very generous gesture by WDW since they were
not responsible for anything bad that happened.

Doug

 Lost in Paradise: Foreign Tourists Find Florida Road Signs
 Confusing   ----   By Lyda Longa   Staff Reporter of The Wall Street Journal


  Florida road signs may be dangerous for tourists.
  That's the implication of a study by the Florida Department of
Transportation, which shows that foreign tourists find road signs in the
Miami and Orlando areas bewildering. As a result, state officials say,
they may have to spend millions of dollars to design and install better
signs.
  The study was commissioned after nearly a dozen foreign tourists --
including three who were killed -- were attacked on roadways in 1993.
Several of them had slowed down or stopped their cars because they were
lost or confused.
  The study shows that 44% of 500 departing foreign tourists interviewed at
Miami International Airport and Orlando International Airport said they
had become lost or confused on their way to area attractions or other
destinations.
  "These tourists were more than eager to tell us the horror stories about
how they got lost," says Dana Chester, a chief engineer in the Orlando
office of Wilbur Smith Associates, the Columbia, S.C., engineering firm
that did the survey for the Transportation Department. "Every time we
started talking to one person, other tourists, overhearing the
conversation, would join in to recount their experiences of getting
lost."
  Most of the road signs that Europeans see back home direct them to
specific destinations. There is less emphasis on memorizing routes.
  "Europeans see our route signs -- like I-4 west or I-95 north -- and they
have no idea what that means," says Louis Stephens, director of Wilbur
Smith's Orlando office.
  Many foreign visitors said that even when they did see a sign on the
highway for their destination, they missed the exit. They said, in part,
that they expected several more signs to prepare them before the actual
exit, as in Europe.
  Of 219 foreigners interviewed at the Orlando airport, 110 said they got
lost in the metro area. Another 110 tourists out of 281 interviewed in
Miami reported getting lost in that metro area.
  "A lot of foreign tourists think Walt Disney World is in the middle of
downtown Orlando," says Fred Ferrell, a Transportation Department traffic
engineer. "What's happening here is that they'll drive out of the airport
and they'll see the exit sign that says Orlando. They follow that and
instead end up near downtown or something. Then they start driving around
in circles."
  The study indicates that road signs at Orlando International Airport and
the surrounding area are especially difficult for foreigners to navigate.
One troublesome Orlando airport sign, located at the exit, reads "Tampa"
on one line and "Area Attractions" on the next.
  "A lot of people think this means area attractions in Tampa," says Mr.
Stephens of Wilbur Smith. In fact, the exit funnels motorists to
Interstate 4, which goes to both Walt Disney World and, 70 miles beyond,
to Tampa.
  The report recommends additional exit signs before each exit and bigger
signs with larger lettering on interstates and highways most used by
tourists. It also recommends more signs to assure motorists they are on
the right road for a particular destination.
  The report also includes a detailed plan for creating better signs
throughout the state. Among the suggestions: making signs more consistent
("International Airport" shouldn't suddenly become "Orlando Airport") and
avoiding abbreviations.
  ---
                 Do They Point The Way?

  Some Florida highway signs that foreign tourists say aren't clear

  Tampa Area Attractions -- This sign at the Orlando airport directs
motorists to Interstate 4, which leads first to Orlando-area theme parks
such as Walt Disney World. Tampa is 70 miles to the West.

  Int'l Drive -- Posted on Orlando's Beeline Expressway at the exit to the
area's biggest hotel and shopping strip, this sign marks International
Drive. But many foreign tourists can't interpret the abbreviation.

  Orlando 6 Miles -- Located near an exit West of Orlando, this sign
prompts many Orlando-bound tourists to turn off the highway six miles
before they get to town. Then they're lost.

  North LeJeune-Hialeah; SR 112; I-95; Beaches -- They're all there on one
sign as you exit Miami International Airport. But tourists say they need
help sorting them out.

  South LeJeune; SR 836 west; Coral Gables -- Located right by the North
LeJeune sign outside Miami's airport, this sign makes State Road 836 sound
like an exit road off South LeJeune to Coral Gables. It isn't.

  Bus Parking -- Located at the Golden Glades Interchange north of downtown
Miami on I-95, the sign directs commuters to an express bus lot. But many
tourists end up there by mistake because a nearby sign says "Turnpike."
  (See related letters: "FLORIDA JOURNAL --- Letters to the Editor:
Confusing Signs? Join the Club and In Defense of Signs" -- WSJ Feb. 1,
1995)

	As poor Englishman trying to cope with driving on the wrong side
	of the road. I think the direction signs in Florida might as well say,

	`You have just missed the turning for xxxxx'

	;^)

    I heard on the news over here in the UK about an incident that happened
    on the Body Tours Ride at Epcot, in which a 4 year girl fainted whilst 
    on the ride and subsequently died. Is this correct?.
    
    
    
    				Dave

    Copied without permission from the Gardner News, Wednesday May 17, 1995
    
    GIRL DIES AFTER RIDE AT DISNEY
    
    LAKE BUENA VISTA, Fla (AP) - A 4 year old girl died Tuesday after
    collapsing on a ride at Disney World's Epcot '95 amusement park.
      Linda Elaine Baker of Galveston, Texas, was flown to Orlando Regional
    Medical Center after fainting on Body Wars, a jarring ride that
    simulates a trip into the human body.
      The cause of death was not immediately known.
      The girl was wearing her seatbelt and sitting next to her mother,
    Linda Baker, when she slumped in her seat, said Sheriff's Deputy Carlos
    Espinosa.
      Two German nurses on the ride performed CPR.
      A Disney employee monitoring the ride by closed circuit camera
    stopped the ride and called paramedics, police said.
      Disney spoksman Rod Madden said he wasn't sure how quickly the
    paramedics responded, but "it certainly was quite rapid."
      Children over 3 are allowed on the sometimes bumpy motion-simulator
    ride, which opened in October 1989.
      Madden said a sign warns people of the ride's nature and urges
    pregnant women and people with medical conditions not to ride.

I contacted a CM on this and he sent this reply:
    
Yes, apparently she had a heart problem (unbeknownst to her or her family,
I'm sure), got on the ride, and died.

In fact, I was talking to the EPCOT Duty Manager when he got the call that an
ambulance was rolling to WOL, but neither of us realized the severity of the
situation.

So far, the investigation into the incident absolves Disney of any blame,
saying it was just her time to go, that it could have happened on the beach,
anywhere. 

It will be interesting to see how long it takes for a lawyer to get ahold of
the mother and sue us.  I'd bet a lawsuit is already underway.

Mike

    good mornng.
    
    After 2 years of saving we are about to have three weeks in Florida
    and have arranged all our excursions in advance. We will not be 
    staying on site, but have hired a "villa" or whatever it is you call
    them over there.
    
    The villa is in a place calledOviedo about 30-45 min north east of
    wdw, Can anyone confirm its relative safety, if so what areas
    specifically should we avoid.
    
    11th February-4th March
    
    Looking forward!!!
    
    regards Patrick

    Apparently TMK was robbed on Monday.
    
    Looks to be an inside job as two masked robbers held up several CMs
    at gunpoint in the utilidors. The robbers grabbed about $80K which
    was basically restaurant receipts heading towards cash control.
    
    The thieves ran up some stairs, out a hidden door, and managed to blend
    in with the crowd and were never caught. 
    
    Mike