T.R | Title | User | Personal Name | Date | Lines |
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1234.1 | | AYOV18::OPS | A mans a man for aw that.. | Wed May 08 1991 07:48 | 7 |
|
The only true major that does not put restrictions on who plays is the
British Open. The Masters, although a great tournament, only allows a
few players from outside the US tour to take part. There were only 6 or
7 Europeans invited this year. (most were past winners!!)
Danny.
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1234.2 | Open for all. | WELCLU::BWALKER | | Wed May 08 1991 11:19 | 6 |
| I agree with note .1. When is a Major not a true championship when
entry is by invitation only.
Regs.
Barry.
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1234.3 | | TOLKIN::HOGAN | | Wed May 08 1991 14:53 | 7 |
|
I consider the Majors as the British Open, U.S. Open and the Masters.
The PGA championship for some reason dosen't feel like a major. I also
think they all should be open to the best in the world. I mean they
can't have every player from all the ranks but the best should be
invited if indeed it is an invitational. To me though the biggie is the
British Open.
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1234.4 | | NEWPRT::JOHNSON_DO | | Wed May 08 1991 21:53 | 15 |
| Re:2,3,4
Suppose we let the golfers decide what the majors are. Since only one
person, Bobby Jones has won them in one year (Grand Slam) I suspect the
majors won't change for some time. Tradition has a lot to do with it.
The fact that more don't play has as much to do with the fact that the
better European players are allowed appearance money at tourneys
outside of the U.S. as are the American players.
The U.S tour does not allow such stipends, thereby making it less
financially feasible for the Europeans to participate. I know of an
instance a few years back where Mark O'Meara was handed 100k in cash in
an envelope prior to teeing off at a tourney in Japan.
SCD
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1234.5 | don't down-play the US Open | CSC32::J_KLEIN | | Wed May 08 1991 22:15 | 26 |
|
Which of the European players has not, or cannot, play in the US Open?
I agree that the British Open has a more international field, and is
perhaps more of a true 'open' championship, but even the European
players would admit that the US Open is a very legitimate major.
I can't think of anyone that's left out of the US Open. It is a USGA
event, NOT a PGA event, so it doesn't exclude people like Seve who
haven't met the PGA minimum events requirments (which is a pathetic
rule by Deane Beaman, the PGA tour commissioner).
Simply because the Europeans have done well in the Masters (my favorite),
Ryder Cup and British Opens, doesn't mean we should down-play the US
Open because they haven't done well there. The argument that they aren't
adequately represented is not true at all.
I'd like to say something about the PGA players that don't play the
British Open due to the expense. This is sad commentary on the PGA players,
since the money they would be spending would be money they made from golf
in the first place. You don't hear the Europeans saying they are skipping
the Masters because it's too expensive!!
The PGA C'ship is certainly not an international major, neither would
be the TPC.
-Joe
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1234.6 | | SIOG::OGRADY | | Thu May 09 1991 05:13 | 18 |
| re:.4
Actually, Jones' Slam was the two National Opens and the two Amateur
Open C'ships.
My general point is that it always was easier for American golfers to
win the majors. They have three of the four in their country.
I may not be getting the numbers exact but in a typical US Open field
you have 150 players, 10-15 of which are non American . By sheer
numbers it is difficult for a foreign player to win. I feel that by
increasing the foreign participation by another 20, you'd have a more
representative field. This is the approach of the British Open
organisers. I think that they have an exemption for players in the top
10 or 20 in the US Tour money list, giving new hot-shots a chance to
play. Paul Azinger in 1987 was a good example, and he nearly won !
rgds...martin
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1234.7 | Open is the key word. | SCAACT::STACK | | Thu May 09 1991 12:42 | 23 |
| Interesting, the base note number is 1234 and we have 1 - US Open,
2 - British Open, 3 - Masters and 4 - PGA Championship major
tournaments. Kinda weird isn't it? Or maybe I've just got golf balls
on the brain.
Anyway, the key word in US Open is OPEN. This means that anyone, even
you and me, can qualify for this tournament and play. There is no
restriction to who can play if they have the talent. And as previously
stated in an earlier note this is not a PGA event but rather a USGA
event. The USGA may not be perfect but I think if you look at their
history and track record over the years you will find they are a pretty
repectable and benevolent organization.
Should it be easier for foriegn players to play in the Open? Maybe.
Perhaps their should be more exemptions for foriegn players. I'm not
certain what the exemptions are for the British Open but I don't think
it's a cakewalk to get an exemption. I think as golf becomes more of a
global spectator sport, i.e. more broadcasts of foreign tournaments in
each country, we may see the format change. Until then I think it's
just a matter of a player either getting exempted or working their
butt's off to make it.
Jeff
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1234.8 | | SA1794::TENEROWICZT | | Thu May 09 1991 13:24 | 21 |
|
Here's a thought... There are three major tours in the world today.
The US, European and asian. I'd like to see the majors accept
the top 30 golfers from the US and European tours and the top 15
golfers from the Asian tour as definates for a Major event. If
the event could take 140 players the monday and tuesday would be used
to decide the remaining 65 places. You could go so far as allowing
15 invitations and then use the two days to decide the remaining 50
places. I think this would put some fire back under the majority
of golfs' professionals. Firstly to be within the top 30 and
secondly to have to make the cut if they weren't in the first 30.
You could use a similar criterial for deciding who was eligibel to play
monday and tuesday. Assuming that the course can hold only 200 golfers
the you could have the 31st thru 100th golfers from the US/Europe
and the 16th thru 55th golfers on the Asian tour be eligable for
the monday/tuesday play.
Tom
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1234.9 | Not where you play but how you play | EPAVAX::OBRIEN | Certifiable golfer | Thu May 09 1991 13:34 | 12 |
| Perhaps I'm mistaken (I'm sure you folks will let me know if I am) but
I was under the impression that for the US and British Opens, previous
winners were exempt for (approx) 10 years. A 1 year exemption for the
top (approx)25 and ties. Everyone else must play their way into the
field. Didn't Arnold Palmer have (try) to qualify last year for the US
open, and last year was his final year of exemption for the British
open? This seems to be a fair method to choose. It doesn't matter
where you're from, all ya gotta do is show you can play and your in the
field.
KO
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1234.10 | | SIOG::OGRADY | | Fri May 10 1991 06:05 | 19 |
| I can check up to be certain but as far as the Open c'ship is concerned
there are only 40 or so places available for qualifiers. The rest are
exempted players.
The Open gives exemptions to the leading money winners on the US Tour,
the other major tours, the last 5 PGA c'ship winners, the last 10 US
Open champions etc.
It's a very comprehensive list, which is very fair in its international
spread.
The problem with the US Open is that a European professional who wants
to play has to play in the sectional and final qualifying to get in.
Gordon Brand Snr and Mark James tried unsucessfully a couple of years
ago.
In fact Jack Nicklaus would have had to pre-qualify this year except
they gave him a free place in the field. A notable receiver of this
honour last year was.....Hale Irwin !!
martin
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1234.11 | Do Majors Exist? | SIERAS::MCCLUSKY | | Tue May 14 1991 14:16 | 28 |
| Comments seem confused. Let's go back and establish what makes a
major. Is it having representatives equally allocated from across the
world? Possibly, if they have some how qualified as the best golfers
in their respective geography.
Does the course or tradition make a Major? IMHO - NO! Does the amount
of prize money establish a Major? IMHO - NO! Does the country in
which it is played or the sponsoring body make it a Major? IMHO - NO!
Is it the way a Championship is conducted? Possibly, that is why many
respect The Masters. Even when Lee Trevino at his prime attempted to
pull players away from The Masters because of his feelings on racism it
stood out. What if the US golfers stayed away from the British Open?
Would it then be a Minor Tournament?
I am trying to get Noters to think about what makes a Major - then
apply those criteria to the existing tournaments and the Majors will
fall out. IMHO - the present tournament I am playing is the only
Major, unless there is a Championship for which all participants have
had to qualify in the same manner, by defeating other players, so that
they are best - say like the World Series in Baseball or the Super Bowl
in American Football - those are Majors!
Frankly, I don't think there are any Major Golf Tournaments. Except
for the one I am currently playing.
Big Mac
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1234.12 | Majors don't 'fall out' | CSC32::J_KLEIN | | Tue May 14 1991 22:10 | 29 |
| Re .11
>I am trying to get Noters to think about what makes a Major - then
>apply those criteria to the existing tournaments and the Majors will
>fall out.
I think a major is a recognized event that consistantly has the best
field and produces world class champions, ie: the cream of the crop.
Using this criteria, I certainly do NOT think the majors fall out.
The leader boards at the majors consistantly have the best golfers
in the world at the top. Most pros realize that their careers are
measured more by their major titles than other victories. It is no
coincidence that Nicklaus has won 20.
>Frankly, I don't think there are any Major Golf Tournaments. Except
>for the one I am currently playing.
There is always some semi-no-name pro that says at a major 'I treat
this tournament like any other'. These guys usually never even make
the cut. My point is that thinking the tournament you're currently
playing in is a major is fine, but you better get your game and your
attitude to a higher level for the majors.
The significance of a major is determined by the respect given to it
by the pros and the golfing community in general.
-Joe
|
1234.13 | | SIOG::OGRADY | | Wed May 15 1991 05:19 | 25 |
| re last few.
When Sandy Lyle won the 1987 Players Championship he was asked what it
meant to him, especially compared to the Open he won in 1985.
He replied......
'About one hundred years' !!
I think he got it on the button.
Majors are the only true test of a champion golfer. Bobby Jones once
said that there are three kinds of golf; Golf, Tournament Golf and
Championship Golf.
I was watching a video of recent US Opens and British Opens.
When Seve won his first Open he was totally overcome with emotion, so
much so that the officials had difficulty getting to sign up his card.
Likewise when Ray Floyd, a notably cool and passive man, won his US
Open he couldn't hold back.
You'll never see that kind of reaction for winning the Irish Open or
the Greater Hartford Open !
martin
|
1234.14 | There must be some criteria for majors... | SIERAS::MCCLUSKY | | Wed May 15 1991 15:22 | 41 |
| Emotion is wonderful. Consistantly good fields are certainly a
positive thing. But that would have made Ben Hogan unimportant to a
major, since all he ever said was "Who's away" and after the accident
he missed many of the majors for a time, yet he was the greatest during
his career. I think Jack Nicklaus is the best of all time, but does
his presence now make it a Major?
What makes the World Series the Baseball Event? First, all
professional baseball players can sign and play, there is a heirarchy
of teams and leagues to get to the National and American Leagues.
Those teams play 162 games against each other, then battle through a
play-off system to select the two teams that are at the pinnacle to
play in the Series. That makes those seven games so very special,
because the players have won the right to play through head to head
competetion.
Some how to me, invitations to players extended on some basis other
than head to head competetion, tarnishes the product. We can argue if
the field for the British Open is better than the field for the U.S.
Open and the decision is subjective. What I hear the last few saying
is that is alright in golf. I was looking for some criteria that would
better identify the Majors, than someones subjective evaluation of
course, traditions, press releases, public acceptance, etc.
Any player who does not regard the tournament he is presently playing
as the only major, would have never won against competitors of a like
calibar. Excellence in any sport demands concentration on the task at
hand. Raising the game to a higher level results in "choking" because
the emotion gets too high. An interesting example was Bill Russell of
the Boston Celtics, who won the big ones only when be violently vomited
prior to the game, relieving the emotion/stress etc. and letting him
concentrate on the task at hand. Mel Patton of 100yd dash fame was a
similar performer running his 9.3 record after vomiting. But, as I
recall he did that in California's Central Valley (Fresno Relays) not
in England at the Olympic Games, although his field was the best that
day, the worst time being 9.7, which for the late 1940s was almost
unbelievable - so was it a major event - or were the Olympic Games??
Big Mac
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1234.15 | Majors..Lee or Ursa? | NEWPRT::JOHNSON_DO | | Fri May 17 1991 14:35 | 25 |
| Folks, a major is such because the press made it so. There is current
opinion to make the TPC a major and not the PGA because the field is
stronger. This is being driven by the press. If i was a pro, I would
consider this weeks tournament a major $200k+ for winning. The
tournament in Las Vegas a major because of the prize money and the TPC
because of the 10 year exemption. The TOC in January should get
consideration because it includes all of the winners and speciall
invitees/exemption players. True test of the best against the best.
I always thought that the Crosby (now ??) should be a major. Three of
the alltime tough courses in usually inclement weather. Kind of the
U.S version of the British Open. Plus you have to play with amateurs
for three days to test your patience and concentration. But now that
the clambake is gone, the press treats it differently.
Until the golfers bitched baout PGA west, this could have been a major.
Talk about the great equalizer. But the "purists" did not like to be
tested quite so much. Give me a break. They should try golfing with
their opponents jiggling change while they putt, finding their own damn
golf balls in the rough, taking five hours to complete a round and not
having a thousand people around the green to keep the ball from
disappearing, and betting their own money...that's real golf.
SoCalDandy
|
1234.16 | Who will be Jim Hallet this week, Woosie? | AKOCOA::BREEN | | Mon May 20 1991 14:46 | 19 |
| I have a different view on this question. First I think to answer the
original point, the U.S. Open simply has a numbers problem and cannot
invite all the foreign players who would be among the top 30
contenders. I don't know the policy that the U.S. Open has for foreign
qualification, it seems that many U.S. pros do go to Great Britain and
try to qualify.
Second it seems we all feel there should be one Global "Open"
championship - what is keeping this from happening, the media?
Third. The Master does invite a greater percentage of foreign golfers
in a smaller field than the U.S. Open. It is the ability of the Jim
Hallets and Rocco Mediates and Hulberts and Tewells to win on any given
week that I believe makes competing on the U.S. tour difficult
financially, especially for foreign stars. The reverse of this is that
many believe the constant competing for 1st place in Europe among the
top 15 gives them an edge in the Ryder Cup.
Bill
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1234.17 | Who won? | SQGUK::NOCK | A close approximation to reality | Tue May 21 1991 07:14 | 20 |
| I have a fairly simple opinion of what makes a Major (and I think it's
just the current 4). Sure, there are problems with who gets invited,
how big the field is, the style of the golf, etc (but that all just
gives us something to argue about ;-)). Maybe it is all just media
hype, but the difference to me between a major and any other is that
the ONLY thing that matters in the long run is who won. Prize money,
top 10 finish, runner-up, etc is irrelevant.
That's the difference - players can win a lot of respect by doing well
in regular events and winning lots of money, but at the majors they'd
give it all up if they could WIN. Winning is the only thing that
matters. At a regular tour event, playing well and picking up the cheque
is enough, winning is a bonus (a bonus of course, which some golfers
are hungrier for).
No "new" tournaments have yet commanded this feeling of the current 4
that winning them is all that counts.
IMO, of course ;-)
Paul
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