Conference 7.286::golf

      Consider that some in your league may have no "pure" intrest in
    in the game and are only having fun.  I like summer rules too, but
    have seen many players in company leagues that only play on league
    night.  They may just be happy to hit and won't bode well for speed
    of play or enjoyment if they aren't comfortable hitting from bad
    lies.
    
      Your club leagues are a better place for rules than company leagues.
    (Just opinion)
    
    Rick

    ya i know that, but than again most A golfers get that way by playing
    more than one time a week. i don't want to stick it too the Cs & Ds
    BUT A players come on, alot of em play 18 on the weekend and maybe
    play 2 leagues during the week.they should be able to handle it.
    
    

    Bob, I wholeheartedly agree with playing the balls down for the
    low handicappers. At the end of this year we were discussing that
    very same thing here at CX0. It seems as if we have gotten so far
    from the usga rules that they don't apply anymore. If we get the
    rules changed to play by USGA this year, maybe we can make the
    southwest a tournament played the same way this or next year and
    then make it into a nice competitive tournament as well.  
    Maybe as an aside, we could gradually do that over a two year period
    by just allowing individuals to roll the ball in the fairway only
    this year then no movement the following year.
    
    Bill

    
    If you get to strict within your league rules, you may lose 
    folks who will perceive it as becoming too competitive.  Speaking
    as a relatively new golfer, (only played in our league one year),
    i need to keep the game fun right now to keep my interest.
    
    Shane_in_VT_where_its_always_winter_rules.
    

    You should follow the USGA rules as ammended by the local club you're
    playing at.  If you allow to much to go on you're then changing
    the reason you're out there.  That's like asking for every DEC softball
    league to use a TEE so each batter can get his best cut at the ball.
    
    Golf is a game of skill, it's not easy.  You can still enjoy yourself
    and play by the rules (summer).  I've golfed most of my life and
    at one time had a 7 handicap. Sure there were times when it would've
    been easier to "kick" the ball onto the fairway or move it out of
    the divot someone failed to replace but thats not what the games'
    about. Try not moving it next time and if you hit a good shot you'll
    feel great and also have become a better golfer.
    
    This is only my opinion. I've ran golf leagues before and because
    of the mix a players it's an easy task, but try playing it down
    for a few weeks to "test" it out.  I think once tried everyone will
    come around and agree that it's ok to follow the USGA summer rules,
    I know that it made me a better golfer in the long run.

    
    re .5 Where do you golf at???
    
    We play winter rules all year at Amherst CC in Amherst NH. Most
    of the time (about 95%) of the time I'll play the ball where it
    lies. But the condition of the course in the past couple of years
    sometimes it's impossible (unless you want to break a club on a
    rock or hit off dirt). Playing the summer rules is great for a nice
    course. When they had Amherst in good condition a couple of years
    ago just before the state tourney it was easy to play summer rules,
    but not now. I love going back home to Syracuse NY and play on a
    real course in excellent shape (mainly due to all the rain).
    
    Mike

    re .6 
    
      What I said was use the USGA rules as ammended by local rule,
    as is the case at most N.E. courses.  Most courses that I have played
    at will state what is currently being used, ie. either up or down.
    I assume that the local "Pro" reviews the course and decides what
    to do.  I must note that using preferred lies relates to only the
    fairway on the hole you're playing but once in the ruff it's "golf
    at your own risk".  Many a time either in a tournament, league,
    or just a casual foursome I've had to take a stroke for an unplayable
    lie when my ball ended up on or near a rock or root.  Sorry if you
    think this as odd but that's how I was taught to play the game.
    If the course you're playing has local rules that states you move
    your ball to avoid any rocks, roots, holes, etc. fine use these
    to your advantage as they were meant to be.  I do know what you
    mean about breaking clubs, I have unfortunately done this in the
    past, in a tournament, on what I thought was a perfect lie.  Unknown
    to me until I swung was a rock just under a coat of green fairway....
    so much for the 3 wood that day.
    
    Note:  I haven't played Amherst CC for two years, an auto accident
    had me sidelined for a while, its to bad you said that it's gone
    down hill. At the time I played it I thought it was in great shape.
    
    

    
     After reading everyones replies on this subject you all have some
    valid points. Some courses are not maintained as they should be
    and as you know that can really effect how one plays. Someone down
    South maybe playing on a real cream puff and hold a 7 handicap and
    a person playing in the North with just as much ability carry a
    nine only because of the condition of the course. I live in Burlington
    VT. now but I learned the game in Mass. on some well maintained
    courses, stow, wachusett, holden cc and marlboro CC and I got to
    tell you there is a few strokes difference just in the condition
    of the fairways. When I play down south (mass) I play it down if
    that is what everyone else is doing but if they are going to roll
    them over so will I. that of course dosn't make it right but whem
    in Rome. 
    On the flip side the rules are the rules so this is what I intend
    to do. When I play on course that has been miantained properly I
    will play the ball down because I, after reading this notes file
    believe that is the right thing to do. But if I am playing a course
    that the condition or the type of grass the fairway is constructed
    of is going to effect the flight of the ball I will play it up.
    If I am on a course where the fairways are not consistant I will
    play up or down. 
    Just for the record I always played the up and then one summer i
    played in a tour. at holden cc and they played the ball down. I
    played the best golf of the year. it really helped my concentration.
    I really love the game and want to do the right thing.
    
    Pete 

    I play in a very loose ruled company league and in most cases will
    look the other way. Unless someone is really taking advantage or
    not counting hes score correctly. Within the league there are two
    division. Within the b flight they usually play the ball up. Period.
    These golfers with handicaps of 12-24 need all of the help they
    can get. Most of those that play in that division understand that
    and enjoy playing in that atmosphere.
    I play in the A flight and although will look the other way I
    prefer to play down. Period. Granted that for anyone playing up
    all of the  time or part of the time it will be a learning experience
    but it will make you a better golfer.
    
                                                 
    
    Tom
    

    I play in b flight, and always play the ball where it lies. The
    only exceptions are when the ball is unplayable. My handicap may
    be high, but when it does come down I'll know that it really is
    down.
    
    Dave  

    i get a kick out of the sandbaggers that playem up in the ruff.
    it gets me POed when iam giving 3 or 4 strokes on top of the foot
    wedge.
    i think you'll feel better about yourself and your score if you
    play the game the way its supposed to be played.
    the # 1 rule in golf: PLAY THE BALL AS IT LIES. not just As or Bs
    but you, me, and everyone.
    
    sorry thats just the way i feel.
    
    pick it up, lets go
    bob

    
    Playing the ball down is probably one of the best ways to improve
    your game.  However, it is not always in your best interest to do
    so.  If you have ever played at Green Meadows in Hudson, N.H. you'll
    know what I mean.  You can get a bad lie on the green!!!  Some courses
    get so much traffic that whole fairways could be considered "ground
    under repair".
    
    I try to play the ball down as much as possible, but sometimes you
    just can't help turning it over.  Nothing ticks me off more than
    when I split the fairway with a boomer and find my ball sitting
    on top of, choose one, hard pan, rocks, burnt grass, divot hole.
    Sometimes you just gotta roll it over.
    
    This is the first time I have ever heard of anyone being allowed
    to improve their lie in the rough.  As far as I know once you are
    off the fairway you _always_ play it as it lies.  And if anyone
    is doing this then they are only cheating themselves.  Everbody
    knows the people who cheat and make a mockery of the rules.  They
    are not fooling anybody but themselves.  Remember, golf is a game 
    which pits the individual against the course.  If you are in a league
    and try to concentrate on attacking the course rather than beating 
    your opponent I guarantee your game will improve.
    
    Also, as Bobby Jones said, "Take time along the way to smell the
    roses".  Golf is a game to be enjoyed.  None of us are playing for
    big bucks.  If you can't have a good time playing golf than maybe
    you're playing the wrong game.  It really annoys me when I see "A"
    and/or "B" players after winning their respective matches that day
    get p.o.ed at their "C" and/or "D" partners if they lose theirs.
    Every golfer I have ever met - from professional to weekend hacker
    - when in a competitive environment trys to play the best golf they
    can.  What more can you ask from a person?  Nobody wants to be the
    one who cost the team a place in the standings.  Be encouraging
    and supportive of those who need improvement.  Take time to help
    them out with their problems and you'll not only get a better golf
    partner but you will become a better partner yourself in the process.
    
    
    Jeff (whose bones are getting rusty from not swinging a club)

     The Scots in days of yore coined an expression called "through
    the green", which means that once you tee off, you don't touch it
    you hole out. Not too hard to understand, huh ?
     Personally, I don't care what people do, as long as everyone is
    doin' it; furthermore, the Scots didn't have to contend with man
    made obstructions like cart paths, etc. Nevertheless, if you really
    want to play golf in it's purest sense, leave it alone unless U.S.G.A.
    rules or local rules specifically stipulate. One more thought -
    remember, if you ground your club in a hazard or sandtrap, call
    the strokes on yourself. If you're one of those "oh, I didn't mean
    to, so I won't count it" people, BEAT IT!!
    
    --"The Dice Man"

     Re:13 - I just noticed a typo. The sentence should have read: "once
    you tee off, you don't touch it until you hole out".
    
    --"The Dice Man".

    
    re:.12
    
      Ever notice when teams are drawn the comments you hear about who
    is a good captain and who is not?  I play in a lot of four ball
    events that are made up of an "A", "B", "C" and "D" players.  If
    you are unlucky enough to draw a captain who is only interested
    in winning the money you will know what .12 is talking about.  Its
    comments like, "I'm out of the hole, this one is yours" from a captain
    that puts the whole team under pressure and often out of the
    competition.  If you get a captain who says, "relax, this is my
    hole", it can be music to your ears!  We have certain captains that
    are consistantly in the money because regardless of who they draw
    for partners the team always plays well.  They motivate and encourage,
    and are a pleasure to play with as well as learn from.

    It seems that they only time I play preferred lies is in tournaments
    and league play. Ninty percent of the time I choose not to touch
    the ball even when allowed to. The times that I do are are only
    because the rest of the field will have a distinct advantage if
    I do not, I am competitive and I do like to win. I see many golfers
    moving the ball out of a super lie in to one that is poorer, which
    makes me believe that they do not even know what a good lie is.
    I have recently made a suggestion to the league that I am in, for
    A flighters (7 or less) to play them down for a number of reasons.
    I have the feeling that this will not be passed, even though I have
    talked to some of them and there was no opposition and even some
    agreement. I can't figure it out. Maybe they think that the fun
    will go out ofthe game if they have to work a little harder to play
    the shots. I really like the challenge of attempting to hit a shot
    out of a divot or around a tree or out of a water hazard. I think
    that that is part of the spirit of the game of golf. Preferred lies
    are an abomination to the game. 

    re. .16
    

    Hi,
    
    With regard to this question of preferred lies I think some people
    have the wrong idea of the origins of this rule. Firstly, preferred
    lies is a decision for the local club/competition committee and
    should be applied 'across the board' NOT for some players and not
    others ! Secondly, there is a very real reason for the local club
    to apply winter rules. That is to protect the course during those
    periods of the year when grass is not so quickly replaced. I could
    have even said that this was the most important reason.
    
    When your playing golf 'rub of the green' or whatever you want to
    call it, is part of the game and improving your lie when not in
    a relief situaion is cheating !! This is one of the last, if notthe
    last sport, where the honesty of the game is left to the
    individual. Let's keep it that way ?
    
    Mike (Played Magnolia at Disney Jan 4th - Shame to see that 'players'
    who don't repair pitches are prevalent on both sides of the Atlantic
    ! - Otherwise - I had a great time - I will be back)