Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Justify this stuff? Surely you jest...
    
    When I've got it, I spend it. Saturday I bought a second TX81Z. Today
    I bought a guitar. Tomorrow...???
    
    Edd 

re: < Note 1919.0 by ANT::JANZEN "Mr. MSI ECL Test" >
                     -< Criteria for Capital Acquisition >-

Hi Tom,

aside: It was Eine Kleine, I just got it.

 Anyway, being a full fledged MIDIholic...

I can easily rationalize constantly buying new capabilities. I like to
think that I am "refining" my setup to a fine degree. Actually, I've come
to realize that for the type of production I'm working on, I need higher
end gear. Every time I try to save money by buying something with less
quality or capabilities I end up being dissatisfied. It seems like the more one
knows about sound and sound equipment, the harder one is to please.
It's gotten so that if I hear the slightest flaw or imperfection in my
music or sound equipment, I just can't rest until it's fixed, either with time
or money or both. Money becomes secondary in importance to the commanding urge
to replace that 6 month old "worn out old thing" with "the ultimate state-of-the
art" dooleyhooper. Currently, I'm not buying anything unless I'm really
convinced that I'll be able to be happy with it for at least several years. The
1000PX, D50, EPS, S550, and R-8 are in this category. The D110, HR16, MC500 are
not. I recommend getting an ATARI ST or MAC for a sequencer; much more
flexible and versatile. The ATARI is quite competitive with dedicated
sequencers and has loads of other software for patch editing/librarian, etc.
Try to buy used whenever possible and practical, but caveat emptor, know your
seller. Mailorder saves money if you know what you want. It costs more to buy
the more expensive gear initially, but I think that it saves money in the long
run if you keep the gear and don't lose money constantly buying and selling to
upgrade. People just starting out now are very fortunate. There is loads of
great gear at used prices. I can justify (rationalize) buying better gear
because I'm making money with it. If it's just a hobby, I would recommend
buying used gear whenever possible. Selling off gear that is no longer used
can be painful, but is necessary. Buying stuff at clearance or sale prices is a
great way to save. I hope that DECMS and COMMUSIC are helping out there.
Holding off buying something is always a good idea. The price usually goes
down; you get a chance to try it out more times and read reviews; and there
is less chance of "buyer's remorse" occurring. Still, if you have musical ideas,
that need expressing, how long can they wait to get the right piece of gear?
How long can you wait to save up for it?

dave

just some ramblin's

    Justification?  Ha ha ha!
    
    I buy a thing if (choose one or more):
    
    	1) I really like it- almost as an object d'art.  Ex: I bought
    	   the Xpander just because I liked the architecture.  The 
    	   fact that it's now my favorite piece of hardware is irrelevant.
    
    	2) I don't like the architecture that much, but it sounds really
    	   good.  The HR-16 is in that category.. and was a case of
    	   almost-buyers-remorse within a week.  I thought I wanted
    	   percussion.  What I really wanted was LIKE percussion, and
    	   the HR-16 is too real for that.
    
    	3) It does something I really want to do, and I don't have the
    	   time or money or inclination to wire that thing up myself.
           Ex: speakers, maybe in the near future an 8x4 mixer.
    
    AND
    
    	I have the $$$ for it.
        
    AND
    
    	I have a place to put it.
    
    I'm not trying to make $$$ with my keyboard chops and SGUs, hence I
    don't spend $$$ on an 8-track or many hours practicing for gigging.
    I'm only in it for the personal enjoyment of artistic abuse, and
    justify the $$$ on that basis solely. 
    
    Dollar-wise, I'm better off as a MIDIholic than smoking a pack and
    a half a day, or half a sixpack a night.   There probably are health
    benefits to a MIDIholic state versus the others as well.
    
    I tend to buy a lot of used stuff (like most of the others here
    in COMMUSIC).  Maybe that's good; it's certainly cheaper.
    
                                          -Bill

	Jeez. All this talk of rationalizing and justifying makes me want
	to go out and buy something.

	;^)

	Seriously, the cycle of upgrades is, for me, driven by two major
	factors: One, the fact that every piece of high-end gear bought seems
	to create the need for another piece of high-end gear (currently
	all of this digital-domain stuff is creating the need for an expensive
	microphone so the vocals sound reasonable)...and two, my taste for
	odd pieces of equipment (like vocoders, parametric eqs, and monitor
	mixers) leads me to keep a slush fund around just so that I can jump
	on a deal if I see it. These are not necessarily upgrades; however
	I tend to hold onto these longer. Most of these fall into the lower
	realms of expense ($10-$250). 

	I guess it beats some other things I could be doing, like owning
	a yacht or something. 

	/pjh

    Being married with 1.5 children, and a big mortgage, it is tough
    sometimes to find the money nevermind justifying it to my wife.
    However, I don't ski, don't go out club hopping, drive a modest
    car, don't spent much money on clothes, and have no major vices
    to depleat my funds, so there is a little mad money kicked away
    every time the eagle shits.
    
    Having a small budget to work with forces me to priority things
    to the max, and chip away at a seemingly endless list of things
    I really think I need to complete my PA system and reach my goal of
    having a working midi studio. Right now I pretty much have all
    the guitar gear I need, and am setting my sites on getting a 
    Bass. Later on, I plan to add a Synth and drum machine.
    
    I don't buy anything that is not modular, as my plan is to continue
    upgrading one piece at a time until I have what I consider to be
    a pro system. This means eventually replacing my mixer, power
    amp, and multitracker, but the rest of my gear is a keeper.
    
    
    If I didn't discipline myself, and keep my priorities straight,
    I would end up spending all my money on buying "collectable
    instruments, guitars, vintage amps, etc. but I have tried to
    keep focused on my goals of obtaining a pro PA system, and
    upgrading my Porta One to something better (open reel, 8 tracks
    would be great).
     
    Resist impulse buying at all costs. I have a personal rule of
    never buying anything the first time I check it out in the store.
    I always go home and sleep on it, and if I still think it is a
    good sound purchase, I go back and buy it.
    
    Also, if you buy something and come down with "buyers remorse"
    a week later, bring it back to the store and try to get the store
    to take it back. I have done this twice with Wurlitzers without
    too much hassle. If you deal with the same store most of the time,
    they are more inclined to let you do this as long as it was not
    a special order item. Make sure to save all documentation, and shipping
    carton, and don't send in the warrentee card until you are positive
    that it is a keeper. 
    
    Mark
    
    
    
    

>    Resist impulse buying at all costs. I have a personal rule of
>    never buying anything the first time I check it out in the store.
>    I always go home and sleep on it, and if I still think it is a
>    good sound purchase, I go back and buy it.

The better statement is "know what you're buying (and sleep on it)" before
you enter the store.  Then if there's a sale and it's an item you're slept 
on, you can go ahead and "impulse" buy (e.g., there's a fantastic sale, or 
the thing is used and you never thought you'd see one at that price).  

If you're at the store to find out about equipment for the first time,
don't bring your wallet!

Having experienced "buyers remorse" once, I'd suggest you try to get the
sales person to hold it for you while you sleep on it.  Even a 10% hold at
Daddy's is refundable toward other equipment.  It's great to hear that
Wurlitzers has treated you so well: that's a good recommendation.

Alex (who has all kinds of impulse rules he breaks from time to time)

    I've never experienced buyer's remorse when I've done my research.
    My situation, however, has been one of keeping peace at home and
    making my financial goals.  As a result, I've had to liquidate my
    setup - a most painful process.  But, I had a lot of fun with it
    over the past coupla years.  Someday I'll get back into it.  But, why
    the *whole* setup?  Well, it's kind of like breaking up with your 
    fiance ... you just can't go back to being 'just friends' very
    easily.  One of these days, I'll be in a position to buy gear again.  
    Meanwhile, it's just me an' my tape recorder, hummin' ideas in.
    
    Steve

    re: Mark J.
    
    being married with 4 kids and a big morgage I find it difficult
    to spend much more than $500-600 per year. I'm finding myself becoming
    very cautious in how I spend it. However, I don't justify it I just
    check for need vs. function then beg my wife for the checkbook.....
    
    dbii :-)

There is a valuable lesson in one of the last two issues of Frets on the
subject of searching for the perfect "instrument".  The article was an
interview with a studio banjo player.  He kept buying banjos, trading old ones,
trying different gimmicks, looking for the one that would let him play the way
he wanted to, and with the same sound as the famous names.

Then one day, he was in a studio somewhere and who should walk in but Earl
Scruggs.  Scruggs picks up the guy's banjo and starts playing it.  Son of a
gun, it sounded just like the way Earl Scruggs sounds on records!

A light bulb goes on.  Our hero realizes that it is the person playing the
instrument that makes the big difference, and he stops his futile search for
the "perfect" banjo.

So no matter what keyboard you buy, if you can't already play like Horowitz (or
Emerson), that keyboard isn't going to make you sound like you could.  And if
you can't already compose, that new sequencer isn't going to turn you into
Mozart.  Better you should spend your time practicing your craft before
worrying about what piece of technology is going to make it easier.

I try to accept my limitations and buy according to them.  Just as a person who
can't distinguish $20 wine from $5 wine would waste his money if he bought a
$20 bottle, trying to become one of the inner circle of wine snobs.

Our house contains 8 musical instruments, only one of which is a synthesizer. I
don't consider any of them "toys", although some of them are not the kind of
thing Michael Jackson would take on tour with him.  On the other hand, some of
them *are* the kind that a pro would take on tour.  The most expensive one
of the lot (costing over twice as much as the next cheapest) is not electronic
at all, takes 45 minutes just to tune, is the one I play best and have the most
fun with, and cost around $600.  My computer still cost more than all the
instruments put together, and it doesn't even have a hard disk.

Hey, its just a hobby.  I look at the stuff some people in this file buy and
wonder how they have any money left over to eat.

(Make that 9 instruments: there is a tenor sax in the basement.  I haven't
looked at it in 20 years.  I wonder if it has rusted away.)

    I agree with -.1 100%.  Synthesizers are tools for a craft.
    If the craft isn't there, the tools won't do you any good.  On the
    other hand, I perceive that some people are hackers (like to play
    with computers) and musically interested, so they express their
    hacking inclinations on musical instruments, without ever producing
    really interesting music.  Also, the synths do enough by themselves
    that if a high-pressure yuppie wanted a distraction as a hobby,
    they can find it with synths even without much musical ability.
    
    So synths serve many purposes, and making original music is only
    one of them.  The keyword is tolerance of diversity.  Let people
    do what they want.  
    
    I am also amazed at the money spent, and they are amazed I don't
    spend as much.  Mutual Amazement society, MAS.
    
    meanwhile, I am still liquidating.
    Tom

    
    weelll, i got 3 kids and a big mortgage - and the kids are getting
    big, and more expensive. I've spent only $600 over the last 2 years
    and have just seen my DD5 destroyed because i've been over indulging.
    And i sympathize with you Steve S - i can't go back to the metronome
    either.(for one, there's no level spots to put it in 200 yr old
    farm house).
    
    what i find even more frustrating is that i feel my music has just
    started coming together - almost professional :-) This whole issue
    has got the marriage(16 years) in a rather confrontational mode
    at the moment. At least the equipment has stopped sprouting wings
    and negotiations have commenced. 
    
    dbii has at least kindly produced evidence that there are other
    married with children folks who have the same expensive habit!
    .8 is already coming out the ln03, and will be introduced as
    evidence at the next discussion!
    
    bs

	Re: kids 'n keys

	I got no kids, enough mortgage, 20+ years of piano playing, and 
	two rooms full of equipment. Why do I do it? Because I want it before
	the kids come along. Luckily (or by design) my wife is very
	understanding (and I don't bother her about many of her purchases
	either). 

	Why am I saying this? Because we're all a bit different in our
	motives and commitment to making music. I chose to study computer
	science so I could be a programmer and make enough money to support
	my musical avocation. 

	We are all at different points, which is one of the great things
	about this conference. The differences in viewpoint/perspective
	forces me to think about  things other than my own motives, which
	ultimately helps me understand myself better. Making wise purchases
	seems to be on almost everybody's list of priorities.

	/pjh

    
    Re: kids and mortgages
    
    I will admit to getting a little green over some of the gear mentioned
    in this notesfile, but like some others have expressed here, due to
    family commitments I have essentially no money to spend on equipment.
    For that matter, before I got married I never had any money either and
    all I had for equipment was essentially garage band level (although I
    still have my dearly beloved 1961 Bassman head, the best $200 I ever
    spent).  Since getting married, I have splurged enough to get two very
    nice basses but over the course of eight years of marriage I have
    probably invested a total of less than $2000 in gear, and about
    $1500 of that came within the first year. 
    
    I usually fund large purchases by either selling something else
    (like selling a PA to buy a synth) or working lots of gigs (a couple
    of weddings late last summer paid for a new bass amp setup).  I
    actually bring in about $2000 a year from gigs but as I've been a poor
    saver much of the $30/wk gets blown on diapers, gas for the car,
    etc. before it gets to the bank, a real drag.
    
    This year my wife and I resolved to seriously compartmentalize our
    money, that is, all my gig money goes into one bank account, all
    the money for gas for the car sits in one envelope (surprise, after
    only three weeks I found out that while we've allocated $20/wk for
    gas for our station wagon, we really only need about $10!!! The other
    $10 has been frittered away), etc.  This way we can keep track of
    exactly where all the "miscellaneous" expenses are going plus I
    can justify purchases of gear based on my gig money contributions
    (however, some of that good money is intended to be a nest egg so
    I can't really blow two grand a year, much as I'd like to).  Looking
    back, I wish we had done this years ago.  For those of you who do
    *not* have detailed budgets worked  out with your spouses, I can't
    recommend it highly enough.
    
    I also have to be brutally honest about my needs and abilities.
    If I had a setup like Len, Dave or Karl, I probably wouldn't get
    any more music made than with what I've got now.  I'm basically
    a bassist, so gear related to that instrument makes sense to buy,
    while stuff for my home "studio" is strictly for my own self-abuse and
    now that I have a multi-timbral synth, a drum machine and a sequencer
    to go along with my existing taping gear I probably won't buy any
    more major gear for years.  Except I would love to get a digital
    reverb to replace the springs in my board..... 8^)  8^)  8^)

RE: .7

Buyer's remorse is always lurking in my world for three reasons (1) sales
literature, setups at stores, salespeople, etc. never provide a complete
picture of a piece of equipment (2) most music stores don't really allow
you to return merchandise after, say, a weekend of use the way you can
with hifi components, and (3) I have strong feelings about what features
equipment should have and how it should function.  Nothing ever works
completely the way I want it to.  I tend to modify everything from my car
to my software.  :-}

Thus when my wife and I have settled (I've worn her down) about what I
want/need, the game isn't over, even if I've studied the literature a
dozen times and stopped in stores for hours.  

And my experience in the commusic area is that synths are about 10 times
harder to select than computers. First you learn all the terminology. 
Then you learn the limitations of various equipment in your price range. 
It all boils down to tradeoffs that I can't really make until I've fooled
around with the thing for many more hours than a store would allow.  How
important is greater polyphony?  Multitimbral?  Aftertouch?  The sound of
FM vs SD vs something else?  Etc.�  By the time I know the answer for *me*
I own the equipment for better or for worse.  

So I guess a good definition of buyer's remorse is: "that uneasy feeling
you get after you have bought a piece of unfamiliar equipment and you have
now played around with it long enough to understand that you really should
have purchased a different brand/model."  "Unfamiliar" means in a
different category, such as a synth owner getting a drum machine. 

Alex (who after one bad experience is now two weeks into a purchase with
no buyer's remorse)

    re marriage "vs" music exp[enditures..
    
    I've never been in a confrontational mode with my spouse on this.
    Back when all I had was a 4-track, a Rhodes, and a spinet piano,
    I was making good music.  Now that I have much more (though have
    essentially no new gear since 2/88, when I bought the K1000PX for
    $18.00 out-of-pocket), I'm still making good music on a VERY REGULAR
    basis.  I've got several friends who've bought MIDI stuff, and NEVER
    USE IT.  This would of course lead to monetary friction in the
    relationship.  If you're using it regularly, preferably making music
    your S.O. can relate to, and the wolf is not at your door, then
    things can be worked out.
    
    One tip.. since 1986, I've declared the studio/music services to
    be a business... with depreciation on the gear, and writeoffs for
    business expenses.. which can be applied to my DEC income.  So the
    tax refund is a big part of my equipment budget.  Of course, thi$
    year I mu$t make $ome money.. thus the "Ascending Ayers Rock" album..
    expenses for which are, you guessed it, deducted.
    
    Didn't mean to take this down the "IRS and You" rathole, but I've
    been using MORE of MY OWN money to finance the studio.  It's time
    to generate some income !
    
    karl    

    I too operate as a business (tho I've never taken a loss). My first
    rule of purchase for any musical gear (MIDI or not) is that it has
    to be something that I will use constantly, and it will have to pay
    for itself in 12 months or less. All of my gear is listed against
    whatever profits I make (ala deductions/depreciation). This always
    prevents me from casually buying things that I don't really need, but
    seem like fun to play with. My wife knows how this operates & she has
    no problem as long as I stick with my guidelines.

						    Jens

Since I haven't been able to afford to purchase much equipment lately, I've
been thinking of the "business" angle too.

The title about "capital acquisitions" caught me because I'm doing some research
into just what you can depreciate and how.

It occurred to me that if I had a business on the side, like equipment rental, 
consulting, or operating a small studio, the "business" could buy a lot of
things that I couldn't otherwise afford.  Like a new Van, a PA, an 8-track
recorder and a recording board, etc, etc.  All very reasonable investments
for a business that had a "reasonable expectation of profit".  

I have some questions that some of you may be able to answer:

Can you suggest any further reading on setting up a sole proprietorship that
can make capital investments and depreciate them ?

Can you depreciate equipment bought used ?

Moderator:  Please feel free to move this to a new topic.  I think it deserves 
one.

Thanks,
						-Jeff

< Note 1919.17 by GIBSON::DICKENS "What are you pretending not to know ?" >

>Can you suggest any further reading on setting up a sole proprietorship that
>can make capital investments and depreciate them ?

>Can you depreciate equipment bought used ?

Since the tax laws are changing so rapidly, and constantly, I suggest
contacting your accountant. Any book published even last year is probably
obsolete.

dave

    
    I've done it without the assistance of an accountant, although it's
    getting to the point where I'm gonna need one soon. Yes, you can
    depreciate used equipment, it's value is the price you paid. For sound
    equipment, I use 5 year ACRS depreciation, according to the tax laws
    that were in force when the business was started. Once you start
    depreciating something, it stays at that schedule until it's written
    off, even if the laws change during the term. You also have the option
    to write off certain things in one year, if you have big profits and
    are willing to forego depreciation over time to get a large, quick tax
    break. As for the vehicles, they are treated specially. Since I use my
    van for personal reasons, I keep a log book and deduct just those
    expenses.
    
    I paid a tax preparer $60 for two hours time, to set up my tax return
    the first year of business. I've done the rest myself since, but not
    next year. There was no way i could have figured it all out without his
    help.
    
    Good luck,
    
    CdH
    

I have a few relatives who run their own businesses, and they say that as long
as you have one vehicle that you call "for personal use" you can depreciate the
new van and still be able to "borrow" it for your personal use any time it's
not needed for business.  Anyone used this angle ?

re:< Note 1919.20 by GIBSON::DICKENS "What are you pretending not to know ?" >
                         -< vehicle for business use >-

The correct angle is to keep a record of the total miles driven  and the total 
miles driven on business. Keep track of all the expenses, oil, gas, repairs, 
insurance, and tolls - everything. At tax time, attach a form 2106 - Employee 
business expense to the 
return and a form 4967 - Depreciation. Business expenses are then

Total of expenses X % driven on business + depreciation x %driven on business 
                                           if business% > 50%.

There are lots of rules, but anyone who can figure out what a diminished 
whole-tone scale is should be able to read the directions. 

The key is to keep accurate, daily records - buy a Day-Timer. 

Geoff

    
    You can even make it easier....just take the standard vehicle per-mile
    deduction. I do this. Sure, you may not be getting every red cent out
    of Uncle Sam, but it makes doing the taxes easier. It's something like
    $.22/mile. I use a vehicle mileage log book, $.99 at Spags.
    
    CdH
    

    
    
    re .22
    
    Thats the same way I do it (actually I have an accountant do it
    for me, it pays to have a CPA in the family :^)  )  Its up
    to $.24 now too.
    
    Ralph