| T.R | Title | User | Personal
Name | Date | Lines |
|---|
| 1851.1 | Try A Pedal Board Supply ? | AQUA::ROST | Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny | Tue Jan 10 1989 15:50 | 8 |
|
They exist for stomp boxes; Boss and DOD among others make them.
What you need to now, of course, is the total current you require
and see if one of these boxes will do the trick.
|
| 1851.2 | But You Need a Funny Little Doubled Ended Power Cord | DRUMS::FEHSKENS | | Tue Jan 10 1989 16:19 | 6 |
| Roland also makes such a unit for their half-width (watch it - pun
opportunity) rack mount effects units. The units themselves support
"daisy chaining" of power inputs.
len.
|
| 1851.3 | HR16 might be AC | FGVAXZ::MASHIA | We're all playing in the same band | Tue Jan 10 1989 16:29 | 7 |
| Jim,
If one of those Alesis products is your HR16, be careful. I *think*
it's 10 volts *AC*. I doubt that you'd find AC and DC voltage in
the same unit.
Rodney M.
|
| 1851.4 | HR-16 has AC in and an inside regulator... | CTHULU::YERAZUNIS | Since when do electrons carry charge? | Tue Jan 10 1989 17:51 | 3 |
| Yes, the HR-16 has an AC input... Weird...
-Bill
|
| 1851.5 | | DNEAST::BOTTOM_DAVID | so it warms up to snow? | Wed Jan 11 1989 07:29 | 5 |
| I've been toying with the idea of building a unit to replace alll
the wall bugs in my studio....9vdc is not problem, 10vac is no problem
and I'll bet I can get it in one box....
dbii
|
| 1851.6 | a possible end to all wall bugs | STROKR::DEHAHN | | Wed Jan 11 1989 08:13 | 18 |
|
AC wall bugs are cheaper to make than DC wall bugs.
Rane Corp is leading an effort to standardize power input for pro
sound rack mounted gear. It's primarily an effort to get around
the UL listing hassle that holds up US product development (the
Japanese get a UL rep on site which saves lots of time in the dev
cycle...US companies do not). If you have any Rane equipment there's
a modular jack on the back, like a telephone connector. Right now
it's for 24VDC but will be changed to 24VAC. All units will be shipped
with a 24VAC wall bug, but have the capability to be powered by
a half or full rack space AC supply, and you just daisy chain the
modular plugs together, nice and neat. Supposedly 30 US manufacturers
(dbx and Alesis to name two) are getting behind this effort so there's
a good chance it will fly.
CdH
|
| 1851.7 | I hereby nominated Rane for an honorary Commusic me cheer | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | Yo! | Wed Jan 11 1989 09:58 | 3 |
| Three cheers for Rane!!!
db
|
| 1851.8 | Why'd They Overlook 10.5 VDC? | DRUMS::FEHSKENS | | Wed Jan 11 1989 10:32 | 8 |
| Yeah, standardized power would be real nice. Even Roland is schizoid
on this - they have wall bugs that deliver 7.5 VDC, 9 VDC or 12VDC,
depending on the unit. Needless to say, in my Roland Museum I have
all three. You have to be real careful because they all look the
same!
len.
|
| 1851.9 | Hows this idea? | HJUXB::LEGA | Bug Busters Incorporated | Wed Jan 11 1989 11:03 | 11 |
| I have a really nice surplus clean bench power supply that can give
me a clean 12VDC 1A.
Is there anything wrong with powering all my 12VDC modules in parallel
off the supply? (im thinking, is isolation between the modules
something to consider....all the 12V in and grounds will be tied
together (all 12VDC+ together/all gnd together i mean...is this
kosher?)
Just wondering, I've got at least 12 wall bugs across 4 power strips
Pete
|
| 1851.10 | temporary workaround | LEDDEV::HASTINGS | | Wed Jan 11 1989 11:08 | 93 |
|
This may not be what you asked for but maybe it will help.
I use a surge protector socket strip. I ran into a problem with my DC
bugs because of space. Those little bugs hog 1� socket positions on the
strip! This is a work around that may help you in the short run. It
consists of adding a 2-to-6 adapter. The adapter takes away 3 socket
positions and gives 6 back so there is a net gain of 3 socket positions.
The real plus is that the placement of the sockets allows you to plug
bugs in so that they only need 1 socket position. Two bugs placed in
non-adjacent sockets will leave enough room between them for a standard
plug to fit. It looks something like this:
-----------------
| |
| __ __ | <---------socket strip
| || || |
| || || |
| -- -- |
| |
| U |
| |
| |
| __ __ |
| || || |
| || || |
| -- -- |
| |
| U |
| |
| |
| __ __ |
| || || |
| || || |
| -- -- |
| |
| U |
| |
| |
| __ __ |
| || || |
________________________________________________
| |<-- 2 to 6
| | adapter
| __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| || || || || || || |
| || || || || || || |
| -- -- -- -- -- -- |
| |
| U U U |
| |
| __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| || || || || || || |
| || || || || || || |
| -- -- -- -- -- -- |
| |
| U U U |
------------------------------------------------
shown with the bugs in place it might look like this:
Note: if you don't mind reversing polarity you can get 4 bugs and two
plugs in place this way.
| |<-- 2 to 6
| | adapter
| __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| || || || || || || |
| || || || || || || |
| -- -- -- -- -- -- |
| |
| U U U |
________________ ______________________
| | ________ | |
| | | | | |
| | | PLUG | | |
| | -------- | |
| BUG | | BUG |
| | | |
| |-------------| |
| | | |
| | | |
---------------- -----------------------
Regards,
Mark
|
| 1851.11 | May be an answer... | NRPUR::DEATON | | Wed Jan 11 1989 11:47 | 11 |
| I have found a place that sells a power strip with the plug orientation
the other way (i.e. the wall bug can be inserted so it is perpendicular with
the power strip). The strip itself didn't look all that durable (one on display
had a crushed casing). I let it go since I was not in urgent need of it, but I
think I may go back for one or two. I saw these at The Fair in West Boylston,
MA.
I forget how much they were going for...
Dan
|
| 1851.12 | Power circuit protection? | MILCAT::HASTINGS | | Wed Jan 11 1989 13:51 | 9 |
| re: .11
Did the strip have power surge/spike protection. I wouldn't
buy one without it! (especially considering the cost of what is
being protected.) BTW does anyone out there know how to tell hoe
effective all the circuit protection is, and how much is needed?
Mark
|
| 1851.13 | | NRPUR::DEATON | | Wed Jan 11 1989 14:56 | 6 |
| RE < Note 1851.12 by MILCAT::HASTINGS >
I believe all it had was a lowly fuse.
Dan
|
| 1851.14 | fuse != surge supression | LEDDEV::HASTINGS | | Wed Jan 11 1989 15:04 | 12 |
| re: .13
So tell me Dan, if a surge/spike supressor socket costs from $20
to $80, and you are going to plug multiple $ks of equipment into
it, is it worth saving $10 to buy a strip without protection? ;-}
Disclaimer: I'm still not sure how effective these devices are,
or how necessary, or how to determine effectiveness, but why take
chances?
keep on playing!
Mark
|
| 1851.15 | | NRPUR::DEATON | | Wed Jan 11 1989 15:07 | 7 |
| RE < Note 1851.14 by LEDDEV::HASTINGS >
Isn't it possible to do both? Couldn't the strip be plugged into a
surge/spike protected outlet?
Dan
|
| 1851.16 | Marginal effectiveness | DREGS::BLICKSTEIN | Yo! | Wed Jan 11 1989 15:29 | 12 |
| A science magazine we get (forget the name) reviewed surge
protectors/noise filters etc.
To summarize, the effectiveness of surge protection devices was
described as being marginal. It might help with the occasional
(the article characterized it as "rare") spikes the power company
sometimes sends, but almost nothing will protect against a
lightning strike (far more common).
I unplug my electrical valueables during thunder storms.
db
|
| 1851.17 | | LEDDEV::HASTINGS | | Wed Jan 11 1989 15:43 | 25 |
| re: .15
I'm not an expert but I think the *potential* problem is if you
overload the capacity of the surge protection circuit you may
inadvertently reduce your protection. In other words, as long as
you don't overdo it, you should be OK.
re: .16
I am most concerned about protecting my gear from more common power
disturbances (ie: lights etc... being switched on/off, low/loss
of power, etc...) I always unplug my gear completely from the wall
socket when not in use just to be safe. It would be great to have
power protection from lightning strikes, but if a bolt can jump
thousands of feet from earth to sky, how much hope do you have that
anything that you can *carry*, let alone buy will protect you.
How's this for a gig nightmare. You're starting into your main set
of the night, the crowd is going wild at how good you sound, and
then between the applause you hear the ominous rumble of thunder
moving in. You take a look at your racks of very delicate, high
tech, very expensive gear and... (to quote Carl Malden) What will
you do? What *will* you do???
Mark
PS Can anyone supply more expert opinion on this subject?
|
| 1851.18 | Supressing an Urge to Surge | AQUA::ROST | Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny | Wed Jan 11 1989 16:07 | 23 |
|
Most surge supressors simply install a varistor between hot and
ground. When the voltage between hot and ground exceed the breakdown
of the varistor, it starts to conduct, shunting the excess voltage
to ground.
Sounds good, but they don't conduct instantaneously and they can
blow out (open), which I have seen, from really large spikes.
You can add varistors to an outlet strip for about $1. Or you can
buy a "surge protection strip" which costs an extra $10 or more.
Noise supression is another story entirely.
As far as lightning, the U.S. Air Force likes to use gas-discharge
devices to protect their computers from lightning. They work, however
they are more expensive than you want to know about.
Hey, why not just buy an uninterruptable power supply (UPS) that
has a well-filtered output? Due to the proliferation of PCs, these
are becoming available in smaller sizes at lower prices.
|
| 1851.19 | One expert opinion (and I'm modest, too.) | DYO780::SCHAFER | Brad - back in Ohio. | Wed Jan 11 1989 16:53 | 9 |
| Surge protection is discussed elsewhere (DIR/TITLE=SPIKE or SURGE or
POWER or something related).
Since I used to work as an apprentice journeyman, I feel I can comment
somewhat intelligently - they ain't worth the money. You'll suffer
damage from low voltage long before you have trouble with spikes, in my
experience.
-b
|
| 1851.20 | MOV's for me | MIDEVL::YERAZUNIS | The brain of Homo Sapiens is mainly composed of cabling. | Thu Jan 12 1989 10:15 | 23 |
| Gas-discharge tubes are relatively slow compared to MOV's, but they
can soak a lot more energy. An MOV typically can soak 10 to 100
joules before it incinerates. A GDT can soak 100 to 1000 joules.
The only problem with GDT's is their non-repeatability. A GDT will
trip at voltages that vary widely with temperature, waveshape, and
previous device history (has it tripped before? How much energy
did it soak in those trips?) MOV's are much more repeatable- they
trip within a volt or two of their specification for the entire
life of the device (which, if the device is never overheated in
a long overvoltage, can be a _long_ time.)
GE sells a house-size version of a spike arrestor, made with three
HUMUNGOUS MOVs. It mounts on the house's breaker panel. It _is_
rated by UL as a "surge arresting device" (unlike most of the wall-bug
and power-strip type devices). Costs about $20.
MOV's typically respond in sub-nanosecond times. This is plenty fast
for anything with an iron-core transformer in the power supply.
(Much of the military concern is with dealing with both lightning
strikes AND with EMP. EMP has energy mostly in the 1 to 100 MHz band,
and hence trips gas tubes very easily.)
|
| 1851.21 | Do I need a BIG one? | LEDS::ORSI | OK, so it isn't exactly the Taj Mahal | Thu Jan 12 1989 10:56 | 9 |
|
Re .20
Got any ideas on what value MOV I would need if I wanted
to install one of these myself? I've got the Newark catalog
#109 open to the GE MOV's on pg. 118 and they have many to
choose from. What value is the GE model for $20?
Thanks
Neal
|
| 1851.22 | Yo, answer the question, please | HJUXB::LEGA | Bug Busters Incorporated | Thu Jan 12 1989 12:35 | 8 |
| Hello!
No one answered my question!?!
Can multiple 12VDC lines be connected off of one supply to multiple
modules, without causing harm to the operator or the modules?
Thanks again.
Pete
|
| 1851.23 | | STROKR::DEHAHN | | Thu Jan 12 1989 12:59 | 9 |
|
As long as the bug can source the current, no problem. The current
spec should be printed on the bug. The specs for each unit should
be in the manual. Add them up, and don't exceed the bug's capabilities,
or you'll get voltage drop, and maybe even damage the unit.
CdH
|
| 1851.24 | Wallbug specs --> wishful thinking | CTHULU::YERAZUNIS | I'm with the band. | Thu Jan 12 1989 14:20 | 13 |
| A lot of bugs are rather overrated by their manufacturers. I wouldn't
stress the bug to more than 50% of rating, especially if it was
in an audio chain. (many bugs get hummmmmy as they load down).
A second problem is that some things (like certain alesis products)
put out a lot of electronic noise. Some of this goes out as RF
(I can't watch WGBH while the HR-16 is powered on), some goes out
the power lead and _may_ interfere with other electronics.
I'd recommend a bypass capacitor and maybe a choke on each of the
power lines. At least spring for the ferrite beads. :-)
-Bill
|
| 1851.25 | But how much current does a 9v battery source? | SYNTH::SEIGEL | SYNTH when? | Fri Jan 13 1989 17:42 | 12 |
| RE: 9v batteries. How much current does a 9v battery deliver? Take two
simple examples of battery/AC-converter powered devices: A Boss chorus CE2
claims to require 200ma from the AC converter, and a Morley VP claims to
require "...at least 150ma". I believe that a 9v battery kicks out
10s of ma, not 100s. So why the discrepancy?
I've been wondering about this whole topic for quite a while myself. But
I'm not intending to power multiple Alesis, etc. devices. Just a few
squash boxes...
thanks,
andy
|
| 1851.26 | Low XXXma = Lots of hum | TYFYS::MOLLER | Halloween the 13th on Elm Street #7 | Fri Jan 13 1989 18:50 | 12 |
| I thought that a 9V battery was capable of 200ma, however I know that
the rechargable 9V batteries are only 80ma (I also use them in my metal
locator). These power my stomp boxes just fine. Of course these ratings
are in amp hours (200ma for 1 hour, or 20ma for 10 hours). Most
effects boxes should take substantially less than 100ma, since most
of my stomp boxes play 5 or 6 - 5 hour gigs before they fail (I now use
battery eliminators on everything, however, each device has an alkaline
9V in it for recording - I don't like to add ground loops as I connect
random inputs to output cables - there seem to always be 20 or 30
lying around on the floor connected to any random device).
Jens
|
| 1851.27 | carefull | KLO::COLLINS | STEVE | Tue Jan 17 1989 05:39 | 20 |
|
Two things to be carefull of .
1. Not all gear has the same chassis polarity . For example I have
a Y* DX100 and a Kawai R50 drum machine . The R50 is as you would
expect IE the negative side of the 12v is connected to chassis .
The DX100 on the other hand is the opposite polarity .This causes
problems when both machines audio autputs are plugged into the one
mixer.
2.The second thing to be carefull of is ground loops caused by machines
grounds being connected at both the power supply and the audio lead
I get around both these problems by using a regulator with multiple
independant outputs .
Steve
|