Conference napalm::commusic_v1

   I can recommend the Fostex RM780 near field 8" monitors.
    	They are around $400.00 /pair new.
    They also have a 6" version, the RM760 ? which is less money.
    						Scott.

    For near field, the Bose Roommates sound pretty good.  They're tiny
    (6x6x9") and they clamp-mount on articulate arms.  Cost about $220
    new.  Self powered.  Need 8ohm headphone drive, 110VAC for the internal
    amplifier.
    
    See the note on "Bose Roommates as Monitors" for a shootout...
    
    	-Bill
    

    
    Look for a used set of JBL Control 1's. They should be about $200
    used. The Fostex monitors are real smooth, too. When you've given
    up your search for used stuff, and just have to have something asap,
    then buy a set of Auratones new for $89 and save your cash for some
    bigger monitors.
    
    CdH
    

    What about Yword NS-10's?  Any idea what they'd go for used?  I
    know they've been (recently?) discontinued.
    
    Rodney M.

    
    They were dropped a while ago, and recently have been redesigned
    and are vailable. You don't need a cloth over the tweeter anymore.
    Used NS10's aren't easy to find, but should be in the $250 price
    range.
    
    CdH
    

    Hello Rodney,
    
    I have a pair of NS-10's less than 1 year old that I am thinking
    of selling. I switch between these and a pair of JBL 4408's for
    mixdown and am thinking of staying with the 4408's. If you're
    interested in the NS-10's send me some mail.
    
    
    						Chris Musumeci
    

    
    And there's a pair of Control 1's in the want ad for $200.
    
    No broker's fee 8^)
    
    CdH
    

    Don't buy the Control 1s.
    
    I got mine new for $189.
    
    Steph
    

    Pianos 'N Stuff.  Blawnox, PA.  (412) 828-1003.  My favorite salesman
    is Bill Ferchak, but I don't think you could go wrong with any of
    the salespeople.
    
    I also don't think that this price is all that remarkable.  Don't
    they list for $99 per?
    
    Steph

    
    I had a mail order catalog that cam in last year (American Musical
    Supply, maybe??) that had new Control 1s for $127/pr.
    
    

    Studio monitors?? I don't need no stinking studio monitors. I have
    Klipsch speakers... :-)
    				- HBM

    Well, now that you've brought up the subject again:
    
    What's the difference between studio monitors and 'regular' stereo
    speakers?  I know monitors are supposed to (ideally) have a flat
    frequency response, but I would think the same would be true of
    hifi speakers.
    
    I ask because I'm thinking of getting a pair of Boston Acoustics
    (A10's I think) bookshelf speakers to use as monitors.
    
    Rodney M.

    My guess is monitors are built to take higher power levels and are
    less constrained by cosmetic considerations.
    
    Otherwise there shouldn't be a whole lotta difference.
    
    len.
    

    
    There should be a great deal of difference.
    
    If you've ever listened to a set of speakers eq'd to 'flat' response,
    I'm sure you weren't too pleased. LOTS of high end, wimpy bottom, and
    dull mids. Not something you'd like to do serious listening to your
    favorite music on. But for monitoring during recording, you should try
    and get a flat a response as possible to reveal deficiencies in the
    mix. Another set of speakers that have a more realistic sound can be
    used for comparison. High power handling, as Len sez, is also
    important, as listening at high levels will also reveal other qualities
    of your mix.
    
    If ya can only spring for one pair, though, try and get as robust a
    pair as you can find. I don't know how good the BA's would hold up in
    that environment. Consumer goods don't usually fair too well in semipro
    or pro environments. But if you're careful with the eq and power, you
    might be ok....
    
    CdH
    

    It was my understanding (dated a bit) that BA speakers didn't fare
    well with rock, they may have gotten better at that, but my stereo
    store didn't recommend them to rock/pop listeners, only to classical
    or jazz types...something abut too much dynamics in rock being too
    hard on the speakers.
    
    dbII

    hmmm.... too much dynamics *in rock*?? Not to dig a rathole, but
    classical and jazz recordings typically blow rock outta the water
    with respect to dynamics....
    
    Edd

    
    
    Classical recordings have ALOT more dynamics than your typical
    super-compressed pop/rock recording.
    
    ralph
    
    

    Perhaps what was really meant was very high volume levels for an
    extended period of time.  At 115dB, it doesn't take much of a dynamic
    increase to blast a cone across the room.

-b

    I'm still having good luck with the Bose roommates as monitors.  Being
    self-powered; I doubt that they have enough oomph to really hurt
    themselves fast enough that I couldn't turn the gain down. 
                                                              
    Pro Roommates are just Roommates with the aluminum grille instead of
    the cloth grille, and both mic and line level inputs ( & gain control)
    Also they charge 2x as much...
    
    	-Bill

    My stereo speakers are Boston Acoustic A-100s.
    
    I listen to mostly modern (rock, fusion, jazz) and some classical.
    
    I love the sound of them, but they haven't held up that well.
    I've blown about 4 tweeters in the 8 years that I've owned them
    despite the fact that I rarely listen to them all that loud and
    my amp has plenty of power for the levels I do listen at.
    
    I'm thinking about getting some monitors for the studio.  I normally
    run through my JC-120 amp, but find that if I mix on that amp, the
    balance and EQ are VERY WRONG when I play it back on my stereo.
    
    	db

    
    Hi db:
    
    My wife and I also have Boston Acoustic A-100s.  I've never
    had any problem with them and I think they sound great.  That's
    interesting that you blew the tweeters, though.  Geez, I'll have
    to be careful--I sometimes monitor my recordings live when I'm laying
    down keyboard or bass lines.  
    
    After hearing you story, I think I'll stop doing that...
    
    One reason I probably haven't had any trouble is because our stereo
    receiver is a low-end Yamaha unit that's only 25 watts per channel.
    However, the A-100s still sound nice and I've never had any problems
    getting the system to play as loud as I want. 
    
    I've heard the A-100s described as "efficient," since you don't
    need a powerful receiver to make them sound really nice.
    
    Peter

    Pete,
    
    Having a low end stereo will actually make it more LIKELY that you
    will blow speakers.   Speakers don't usually blow from excessive
    power, they blow from dirty power.  I.E., they blow because people
    push their low end power amps past the point they should be used,
    at which point they start introducing direct current.
    
    Anyway, the scoop on the A-100's is that they WERE improved a few
    years ago.  If your tweeters around round and have exposed wires
    leading into the dome, you have the old kind which are prone to
    blow.
    
    If you tweeter is rectangular with no exposed wires, it's the new
    kind which is supposed to have solved the very problem which
    causes mine to blow.
    
    Although I suppose it's almost customary to rave about ones speakers,
    my overall opinion of the A-100's is that THAT particular model
    has SOME specific audio qualities that "you would expect only in higher
    priced speakers".
    
    The bass response is probably below average, the efficiency is pretty
    good, the high end response is pretty good, but when *I* listen
    to those speakers I hear a real quality that I have heard referred to
    as "imaging".   I don't I'll try to venture a description of that.
    It's a common term (I understand) so if someone else knows a good
    description of it, feel free.
    
    	db

    Sometimes one gets so wrapped up as to miss the obvious....
    
    A while ago I became totally frustrated at the quality of my mixes.
    They'd sound fair in the studio, but then lose it anywhere else. 
    
    Last week I scored a small gig to sequence an extended version of the
    theme from "Hill St. Blues". I wanted it to come out real well. (Len,
    you don't know how many times I almost picked up the phone yesterday to
    request emergency recording assistance!) Yesterday, I pulled out all
    the stops and moved my precious EPI 200C stereo speakers from their
    esteemed position in the living room to the studio...
    
    {ahem} Guess what? My mix is 1,000,000,000% better!! This should be no
    surprise. My studio 'speakers' (I use the turn loosely now) were not
    much more than boxes stuff with the finest RatShack drivers a limited
    budget could buy... It seems I just 'forgot' about them and just became
    acclimated to the sound. "Yeah, that's what my rig sounds like..."
    
    Now my mix is actually 2 dimensional! It has depth!!! It breathes! It
    has 'air'...
    
    I feel so silly...
    
    Edd

              <<< Note 1458.24 by WEFXEM::COTE "Bain Dramaged" >>>
                     -< On 3, everyone call me stoopid... >-

    1,
    2, 
    3,
    
    Stoopid! 8-)
    
    I don't even have nice speakers.
    Tom

    
    Check out some speakers designed for the purpose. EAW, the small
    Tannoy's, the Fostex coaxials. Take your mixes to the next higher
    plane.
    
    CdH
    

I'm sure this has been discussed _to death_, but you really need to use a
variety of speakers when mixing. When I had a 24-track studio, I used UREI
811Bs, Yamaha NS-10s, JBL4312s, and Auratones. Many customers also brought boom
boxes and Walkmans, then ran down to their cars to check each mix on the car
stereo.

The general principle is to mix on the cheap speakers at medium volume and get
it to sound as good as possible; then you should be blown away by the heavy
speakers. Naturally, there are always compromises to be made, particularly
with the amount of low end. You should avoid boosting lows below 100 Hz;
these won't come out on small speakers, but will boom on big ones. In general,
it's better to cut than boost when you are EQing.

    (re .26 ) EAW, Tannoy's, Fostex coaxials - Any recommendations 
    on a good place to pick up a pair?
    
    good place==rock bottom prices  :)
    
    Errol

    I'm quite partial to ADS monitors, myself. If you can find any of the
    old 780's around, they're fantastic. The newer stuff is much more
    expensive, and I prefer the sound of the old fabric dome tweeters.
    
    Chris

Well I'm thinking of jumping on some new monitors. I have a pair of bose 
something or others that are too bright and lack good bass response. I have
heard that Yorkville sells a real nice set and I can get them cheap (local
dealer/my drummer). Has anyone heard them or heard much about them? What else
might fit a limited budget?

My problem here is that nowhere in Maine will there be any that I can hear.
Home studio recording is not  supported by retail companies up here. I'm going 
to have to drive a zillion miles to NH or Mass or just jump on something via
mail order and hope...same as it ever was...

thanks in advance

dbii

The "Ensemble" speakers sold by Cambridge Soundworks got a virtually *flawless*
review in EM (Electronic Musician) quite a while back. Depending on your price
range, they're a "best buy" fer sure at $499. As I recall, accuracy was rated
at near-perfect.

Oh, BTW- this is a "subwoofer plus satellites" setup, with two subwoofers, 8"
apiece if I recall correctly.

Bob

I'll check them out...

thanks

dbii

    Bob,
    
    Are these "Ensemble" speakers truly "monitors".
    
    My understanding is that there is something that distinguishes monitors
    from regular speakers and that monitors are capable of handling
    dynamics that regular speakers are not capable of handling without
    blowing or something.
    
    Or is "monitor" just another of those marketing terms?
    
    I myself am leaning very strongly towards near-field monitors for
    my recording efforts.  Very space efficient and I can always demo
    my mixes on the good stereo speakers in my regular stereo system
    (which is on a different floor than my recording gear).
    
    	db

Hmmmmm. Interesting how one attaches meaning to oft-used words by some sort of
osmosis- the "flavor" *I* had attached to the term "monitor," as opposed to
"plain ol' speaker," was that the former implied superior accuracy. Not sure if
it really means anything but the intended *use* of a speaker, i.e., to "monitor"
sounds. Near-field monitor. Stage monitor. Monitor lizard... ooops, sorry, that
slipped in-

If the term is simply use-oriented, that would make a certain amount of sense.
After all, one would want to use accurate speakers that also handled transients
well for monitors, right?

As far as the Cambridge Acoustics as a specific instance, the reviewer was Craig
Anderton, who would seem to have pretty good working knowledge of such things.
The impression I got was that the recommendation of the Ensemble as near-field
monitors was entirely his idea, based on how impressed he was with their
accuracy and ability to "tailor" the response of a given room. I've never heard
or seen the manufacturer bill the system as anything other than a great audio
speaker system. (I may be ordering one for my stereo sometime soon. If I end up
doing so, I'll post my personal impressions, FWIW.)

Any other bids on the definition of "monitor?"

Bob

    In pro studio applications, monitors are designed for what are called
    "near-field" applications, that is you will be right on top of the
    speaker (maybe 1-2 feet away) and the speakers must produce a good
    stereo image at that distance.  A good example of a home speaker that
    would be a *lousy* monitor would be Bose 901s.
    
    Some of the real expensive "time-aligned" monitors are designed so
    that the path from each speaker element (woofer, tweeter, etc.) is the
    same to your ear to produce lower phase distortion.
    
    Maybe some pro audio type can elaborate further.
    
    						Brian
    
    P.S. I Have heard good things about the little Tannoy PM monitors, I
    think they run in the $400 per pair range for the smallest ones.

Mike Metlay has Tannoy's and I was favorably impressed with the sound.  The
model # was something like PBM-7.

	Eirikur

    Monitors are good speakers with as flat response as possible.  Many
    'home' speaker systems have an artificially boosted bass and treble
    response, in order to sound punchy and powerful in the store.  Or,
    another way, many 'home' speakers are deficient in the midrange.
    
    I don't agree with the 'near-field' definition.  I use old Jensen 
    cabinets with DynAudio components (Swedish) pushed by an old Marantz 
    75WPch stereo amp, and have found that my mixes needed NO correction 
    when listened to in a 'real' 48-track studio with 'real' monitors, 
    both regular and near-field.  Oh, and my speakers are about 6' from 
    my ears, set up with me at the apex of an equilateral triangle. 
    
    karl

    I'd say 6 feet away still qualifies as "near-field." Pro mixing boards
    being as big as they are these days, it's sometimes hard to get them
    much closer than that!
    
    It's important to listen to your mixes on as wide a variety of speaker
    systems as possible. Lots of people also listen over their car stereo,
    on a boom box, and a Walkman. Most studios have a set of big speakers
    and also a couple of smaller systems including near-field monitors.
    
    I had big UREI time-aligned speakers in my studio, but it can be
    fatigueing to listen to them for a long time, especially at high
    volume. It's better to get stuff sounding good on the little speakers;
    then when you play it over the big ones you get blown away! The
    important thing is to compromise so it sounds reasonable on as many
    systems as possible.
    
    You should listen to your monitors a lot, and especially listen to 
    recorded music by whomever you'd like to emulate. If you like Boston, 
    for instance, try to make what you're recording sound like Boston's 
    records when played over YOUR monitors!
    
    -Ross