Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    Gee Brad,
    
    I'm doing pretty much the same kinds of things.
    
    I can only offer a warning.  You CAN get right angled plugs at Radio
    Shack but... DON'T!!!
    
    The plugs they have are very wide.   I bought bunches of them and
    discovered that I can't plug two of them next to each other (say
    for mixer inputs) because they are wide enough to be in the way
    of each other.
    
    I've looked around for other right angle plugs but haven't found
    anything I really liked.  I think what I'm gonna do is buy some
    molded right angle plugs (molded plugs fine for use in a rack IMO),
    cut them to the right length, and then put one of the non-molded
    right end plugs on the other side.
    
    A molded plug WILL fit next to the non-molded RS ones on my equipment.
    
    I just with RS would sell cords with molded right angle plugs on BOTH
    ends so I could at least make two cords from one.
    
    I'm still looking for a better supply though (yes, I have checked the
    catalogs of places like Amer. Musical Supply and Musicians Friend,
    etc.)
    
    	db

    I'm looking specifically for right L molded ends (on EACH end), and
    color-coded cords if possible.  When rarely plugged/unplugged, molded
    cords seem to make more sense to me. In addition, they are usually
    smaller in diameter than the Belden cable I'm used to using, and can be
    strapped to the side of the rack easily.

    I'm also trying to get my hands on a bunch of short MIDI cables (like
    the ones that Yamaha supplies in their QX mumble boxes) so I can strap
    them to the side of the rack, too. 

    As a rule, I avoid Rat Shak pins like the plague.  I've got a whole
    boatload of cable wire and Switchcraft ends ... I just don't want to go
    thru the hassle of making 12-16 3' cords. 

    What kind of prices are you talking from AMS and whoever else? I'll be
    checking with a dealer today, and will post results. 

-b

    Just got off the phone with a place in Shrewsbury (!) called MacDuffs.
    Thanx to Dan Eaton for the pointer.  They can custom make cables to
    length, with or without right L ends (which cost a bit more), AND
    colored cable. 

    They use Belden cable, Switchcraft ends, and have 5 year guarantees. I
    was quoted $4 per cable on 3' cords w/rtL ends w/color coded cable.
    That was for 12 cables, of course.

    They seemed to be pretty reasonable.  Oh - and I talked to Bob (I think
    he's the sales manager or something). 

-b

    While wandering thru Target (plasticland) I found some plastic clips
    of various sizes that are perfect for securing cables on my rack
    - down the sides, etc. Of course we have all AC cables on one side
    and all audio on the other..
    
    These clips stick on with double-sided foam tape, and when clicked
    shut form a circle.. 2 sizes, ~3/8" and ~1".. the small ones will
    secure 2-4 audio cables, the big ones at least a dozen.
    
    karl

    What's a good source (southern NH or eastern MA) for Belden cable
    and Switchcraft hardware?
    
    Have soldering iron, will travel.
    
    Rodney M.

    
    Unless you can get contractor prices, you're better off buying them
    premade from a cable manufacturer.
    
    Good cable is .60/ft unless you buy a 250 foot roll. Switchcraft
    1/4" connectors are $1.90 in qty's less than 50. Plus your time.
    
    Have fun
    
    CdH
    

$1.90 per connector? In that case, can someone post the number for
    McDuff's?
    
    Have finger, will dial.
    
    Rodney M.
    

    
    McDuff's is 752-2704.
    
    Hey, I'm a ProCo dealer. If there was any way for me to give you
    a better deal than McDuffs, then you would have heard from me by
    now. We'd have to be talking about >50 cables to make it worth it
    for both of us.
    
    I seriously doubt that McDuff's is making much on these cables.
    They are probably gambling that once you see all the guitars hanging
    from the ceiling, you'll want to take one down and check it out.
    Such are the costs of doing business.
    
    CdH
    

    Well, another year, another configuration.  I went the individual cable
    route, and it ended up being a mess.  So here's my next wild idea.
    
    I've got an in at a local dealer where I can get any kind of cable at
    cost - so I've considered picking up several feet of snake cable
    (number 20 or 22 wire) and making a wiring buss for my rack.  Problem
    is that I want to keep the number of leads to a minimum.  To do this,
    I'd like to use one wire as common ground for all �" runs.
    
    Is this a good or a bad idea?  It appears that my M160 does this
    internally anyway, so I don't see how wiring a snake in similar fashion
    would hurt anything, but I'd like to make sure before I ruin something.
    
    Comments?
    
-b

    I don't know how snake cable is configured, but sounds to me like
    you may introduce a problem with cross-talk if all grounds are put
    on one pair.
    
    Steve

    
    Depends if you're running balanced or unbalanced. Unbal is fine, you
    may have to float the shield. Balanced is a whole notha matta.
    
    CdH
    

    I be doin unbal.  What I'm trying to do is avoid having 32 distinct
    wires for 16 lines in.  I'd like to use 17 wires (16 hots, one neutral
    or use the shield as neutral). 

    I'm also thinking about dealing with Switchcraft directly, to see if I
    can get a lot of 50 or so ends at a good rate.  Anyone tried this? 

-b

	I got a deal last year on some mil-spec multi-conductor that didn't meet
	mil-spec (it wuz scrapped so I took it, heck it still worked).

	So the stuff is 17-pair with shield on each, 22 ga. I made up a number
	of "snakelets" to get across the room, and to connect this'n that. 

	All they really ended up being was 1/4"-1/4" males on either end,
	and I did each ground individually, and made sure the crimp/strain
	relief was well crimped. I made three 16-pair 6-8 foot snakelets
	before I got sick of looking at 1/4" connectors. Overkill, in my case,
	since I'm still running unbalanced, but I run 'em into the back of the
	M-160 and I don't get hum from those cables.

	I didn't like the idea of just using the sheath shield, because I
	didn't want to ever have to do it over again, and I tend to change
	configurations about every season, so I have sometimes used them for
	more than one device, which would have inevitably made problems. With
	each line isolated from every other, I can send some lines to different
	devices with relative impunity. 

	Whatever. 

	/pjh

    If you are running unbalanced, you gotta have a shield around each
    signal wire.  Otherwise you will have moby crosstalk.  Not to mention
    that the impedance will be all wrong.

                      <<< Note 1448.14 by 4GL::DICKSON >>>
>"moby crosstalk"  
    
    This conference is great - where else would I learn these wonderful
    technical terms ?
    
    karl

    
    	RE: .0
    
    	I get my cords at Sam Ash. Six to a pack, 1 foot long, six
    different colors. One end is right angled. $8 bucks a pack. Rich
    

    
    Besides the crosstalk issue, there is the signal ground issue. If all
    the chassis are mounted in a rack, then their chassis grounds are at
    approximately the same level. But what about the signal return on the
    connector sleeve? Are they connected to chassis ground, or floating?
    These issues would have to be sorted out beforehand.
    
    I always run shielded or twisted pair for each unbalanced line, just to
    be sure. It's cheap enough.
    
    CdH
    

    Okay - thanx for the info.  I'll be checking into this a bit more,
    but I think I may stick with the single cables for now (sigh). 
    Where be the velcro?

-b

    I use the flat black "ribbon" type cable from Rat Shack. The y come
    in various lengths and have 4 cables side by side. Unfortunately
    they have phone plugs at each end but a trip to my local surplus
    store for phono-1/4 inch adaptors sorts that out.
    
    They're neat, flexible (some units need phono at one end) and quiet.
    
    Ken
    

	Brad,

	if you want velcro by the reel, check out whatever sewing shops
	you may have in the area. I don't know if you have malls nearby,
	or shopping centers, but something like So-Fro Fabrics, or some 
	other national shop (I really am not into sewing at all but
	my wife frequents them quite a bit), they have literally reels
	that they'll cut off Velcro by the foot. Prices are easily 1/2
	of what you'd pay for the "finished product" at a music store
	(finished product = both sexes of Velcro heat-stamped or sewed
	opposing each other so you can stick the cable in the middle loop
	and skruntch the Velcro around them, plus a heat-or-silkscreened
	logo)

	/pjh

    Thanx for the tip about ribbon cable - I hadn't even thot of that.

    As for velcro, it seems that the female part of my greater family is
    innundated with the sewing bug.  I should be able to scare up a few
    rolls around the house ... but thanx for the tip.  I didn't even know
    you could get velcro stuff at electronics stores until this note. 

-b