Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    I've thought of this, myself.  The price always scares me off.
    Check out the AR equivalents.  Bose is not known for accuracy, which
    is what you want for either of your purposes.  I don't know that
    the AR is any better, but their track record is much less gimicky.
    
    	Eirikur
    

    I did check out the AR "personal speakers" (with built-in amp.)
    
    The AR "wedges" sounded significantly worse.  I.e. much more
    distortion, and a definite predisposition to clipping when played even
    moderately loudly.  Only slightly larger than the Bose, mounting
    is not as nice.
                          
    I also test auditioned the Koss MP-100's.  These are small bookshelf
    speakers with built-in amp and a marginal mount.  They sounded OK,
    but rather edgy... also cost $100 more than the AR's or Bose.
      
    IMHO the Boses never clipped- even though they were being played
    *significantly* louder.  (maybe the active EQ inside is also a soft
    clip/compressor? :-) ) 
    
    What I'm looking for is anyone who's done this before- and did it
    work?
    	
    		-Bill
    

    
    As posted in AUDIO....
    
    Check out the Boss (Roland) Micromonitors. 
    
    CdH
    

    Yamaha has a little amplified monitor speaker that is made (or
    marketed) for keyboards.   I haven't heard it, nor do I know the
    price.  I was in a store yesterday where they had them, and also
    a semi-lookalike copy made by Vestafire.  
    
    As another thought, has anyone had experience with a little amp
    like the Peavey KB-15.  It looks similar to a Peavey Backstage amp
    that is for guitars, but this one is supposedly designed specifically
    for keyboards.  Daddy's sells them for $99.

    

    I test-listened the KB-15.  
    
    I didn't like it.  It sounded a lot like my Radio Shack 1W
    battery-powered speaker- that is to say, small and lumpy.  
    
    ...and it doesn't have any rackmount facility, either.
    	
    Thanks for trying...
    	-Bill
    

    I was in your shoes once.  This is what I decided.
    
    I listened to the smaller (10 W?) Yamaha monitors, and I didn't
    like them very much.  Not enough power, even for a near monitor.
    
    I settled upon a set-up which was a bit more expensive, but I think
    it was worth it:
    
        1) 1 pair JBL Control 1s, studio near monitor speakers.  They
           look like the BOSEs, but I think
           they sound much better--.  Up to 100 W power handling, 70-20KHz
           response).  $89 each.
    
        2) Tascam PA20B--a small (6"x8"x2" at a guess) 20 W per channel
           amplifier.  I dunno about specs, but it sounds very clean
           to me, and has enough guts for excessive SPLs when used with
           the Control-1s in a near-monitor configuration.  $150.
    
    Another option is the Kawai KM-15, 15 W monitors (like the KB-15).
    I haven't tried these (couldn't get a damn salesman when I was
    looking)
    
    Steph

    I did go listen to the Y-word monitors- but I didn't want to deal
    with yet another external box (the power amp); also to
    	
    	Boss (Roland) micromonitors
    	AR Personal Wedges
    	Koss M-100
    	Kawai KM-15
    	Peavey KB-15              
    	Bose Roommates
    
    Here's my ratings
    
    	Boss Micromonitor:	good overdrive characteristics, not
    			even close to flat response, loud (in music
    			store environment!) hiss.  No mounting provision.
    			Can take up to three inputs simultaneously.
    	                Separate bass and treble controls, for those
    			of you who are into such things.
    
    	AR Personals:	Terrible clipping- never overdrive this speaker!
    			reasonably flat response from mid to treble,
    			bass response absent.  Some hiss (audible in
    			Lechmere environment).  Can clamp around
    			1-3/4" post only (back corner of speaker has
    			a 1-3/4" hole in it).
    	
    	Koss M-100:	Good bass response, good loudness, big	
    			box (2-3x every other speaker);  borderline
    			overdrive characteristics.  Good
    		 	treble response.  No mounting provision.
    			Only speaker in this survey with multiple
    			drivers.  S/N > 86 dB.
    
    	Peavey KB-15:	Typical Peavey sound- it sounds like it has
    			overdrive on all the time- but it's a soft
    			overdrive, definitely not a hard clip.  Quite
    			pleasant to the ears, actually.  
    			Reasonable S/N.  Upper bass OK, lower bass
    			nonexistent.  Looks like a typical Peavey- and
    			weighs like it too.  Heavy little bugger! 
    
    	Kawai KM-15: 	Combines the worst characteristics of the AR
    			clipping with the unmountability of the Koss.
    			Sounded very hissy, looks ugly to boot!  Store
    			copies inevitably missing at least one knob.
    			"Looks like a cheap Taiwanese KB-15 that shrank in
    			the wash."   Kawai should be ashamed to put
    			their name on this.
                                            
    	Bose Roommates:	Reasonable upper bass, vague attempt at lower
    			bass.  Good treble.  Overdrive response somewhere
    			between Peavey (very good) and Boss (OK).  Can
    			sound a little shrill/beamy in near-field on axis.
     			Sounds excellent off-axis or bounced off a wall.  
    			Excellent clamp-mount flexibility.  Dead silent, 
    			S/N must be greater than 96 dB.  Needs 
    			headphone-level drive- line-level drive is inadequate.
                        
    
    I went for the Bose.  I generally practice softly (80 dB or so)
    and hiss bothers me.  The dead quiet of the Bose, combined with
    the articulated clamp made them the "right choice".  If you've got
    lots of floor space or appropriate places to put monitors,  check
    out the Koss.  They're big, but they sound very nice.
    
    It was rather amusing to audition speakers from all over the world
    (Japan, Korea, Taiwan, Missouri) and end up buying a set made about
    4 miles away, in Framingham!  Believe it or not, this was not
    a chauvanistically motivated decision.  If the Boss was quieter,
    they would have been _serious_ competition.  
    
    Even if you aren't looking for nearfield monitors, check out the
    Bose articulated clamping arms.  They are "done right", a really
    nice piece of engineering, followed by a really nice execution in
    metal casting, machining, and powdercoating.  I'd consider buying
    the Bose arms for someone elses boxes, they're that nice.  The quality
    of the arms is clearly not lost on Bose, who sells them separately
    for $32 a pair.  (The arms are made in W. Germany... probably by
    Mercedes :-)  )
                  
    -------
    
    How do I avoid the "beamyness" problem I mention above about the
    Bose?  Well, the speaker clamps are mounted to the top of my Ultimate
    Support stand, the long direction of the clamp arm is set to straight
    up, and the speaker boxes are at the top of the clamp arms, aimed
    horizontally.  That is, about 3 feet above my head, when I sit to
    practice (I practice sitting down).  So the beamyness is unnoticeable
    and the sound field blends in something close to hi-fi quality.
    
    	-Thanks for the suggestions, everyone.
    
    	 Bill

    
    Speakers are sooooooo subjective, but here is my two cents worth
    anyway.
    
    I am into good listening. I really have to have clear reproduction
    to enjoy the music. Distortion etc drive me nuts.
    
    So when I bought my gear I listened to hard.
    I first took home a ROLAND keyboard amp. I did not listen to it
     in the store. I took it BACK immediately after listening to it
     at home.
    I then listened to several sets of speakers at LaSalle's where I
     bought my gear. I tried the small "Y" speakers, and a really nice
     Y speaker, built in amp in each speaker. About 12" high, and heavy.
    I tried the BOSE PROroomates. 
    After A-B listening, considering the space for my gear, I bought
     BOSE. The Y speakers had more power(read that LOUD) but did not
     sound better to my ears. The deal at LaSalle's was that a pair
     of either was $300. The BOSE just sit on top of my MKB-300 very
     nicely, and look great.
    Since my use is at home, not in a band, I cannot say if the PROroomates
     play loud enough for the band use.
    
    Good luck,
    		Rich.
    

    What's the difference between the Roomates and PROroomates ?
    
    I own the Roomates, and I agree with .7 pretty much.  I bought them as
    monitors for my porta-studio.  I also agree about the mounting arms.
    They're great.  I got them (the mounting arms) at lectra-city cheap
    when they were changing management.   
    
    On a hunch, I also tried the old Bose trick of crankin'em up and
    pointing them at the wall.  It works.  They must have some kind of
    compressor or something in there.  It just won't distort badly no
    matter what you do to it.  The mounting arms make it easy to adjust the
    angle with the wall or ceiling or floor. 
    
    They're also real portable, but unfortunately not battery powered.
    
    Another good combo is a Rockman and the Roomates, although I don't have
    a Rockman.  The stereo effect is quite striking - instant guitar
    amp.
    
    							-Jeff
    
    
    

    Does anyone in here use the BOSE 801s (The black Pro versions of
    the 901s)?
    
    I'd like to hear some opinions on using them for keyboard applications.
    
    Thanks,
    Mike

              <<< Note 1376.10 by PNO::HEISER "bash-n-the code" >>>

Mike,

I played in a 7 piece band for 4 years. They used 801's for their PA. The
band leader worked at BOZE. We all agreed on one thing (unheard of previously),
They are not good for keyboard use, or as the only speakers for a PA. They
do not have good mid-range or low freq response. We used them for vocals only,
and it always sound very "pinched" and compressed to my ears.

dave

re. Mike:

Leaning more towards the synth now? :) :) :)


re. Dave:

I had mostly only heard good things about the 801's.  Did your band have the
active equalizer spoken of in 1170.* to boost the low ends?  I too am getting 
interested in speakers and amps for my synth setup (my Yamahaha KS-10's just 
don't cut it) and am looking for speakers that would compliment a Carver 
1-space power amp (the more powerful one) very effectively.  I read your review
of the TOA 380-SE's in 1135.1 and realize you may be slightly biased towards 
them.  :^) :^)  Any others you would now consider?  Especially for something 
like the Carver?  I would be playing mostly solo or with my soon-to-be-wife on 
WX7 or vocals and would like as small a setup as possible with a good dose of 
power.

Thanks!

Dan

           <<< Note 1376.12 by MIDI::DAN "All things are possible" >>>
                             -< More info, Dave? >-

Dan:

Yes, we had the full system, since the band leader worked at Boze and he got
an employee discount price by buying direct from Boze. I am biased in favor
of the TOAs, but the 380s need a little help in the high freq response. I
added some Ramsa's to boost the highs. The 380s can handle the bass and mids
fine with that big 18" woofer. I would shop around and check out some JBL
speakers. They are expensive, but their performance and quality are superior
IMO.

dave

re: JBL's -

        Does any specific model # come to mind (for keyboard use, especially)?
        I don't have any lit. on them but will send away for some or go visit
        a place that has them.

Thanks again,
Dan

    
    The 380SE has an 15" woofer, the 480SE has the 18".
    
    I like the EAW PM315 although they just took a big jump in price.
    
    The Ramsa WSA-200's are very nice for the money and are also stand
    mountable.
    
    The EV SH1502ER is another nice keyboard speaker. The Peavey SP2 is a
    copy of that design.
    
    I don't like the Bose much for anything, but they sound ok for vocals
    without a lot of effects in a low level environment. They don't seem to
    have the punch for rock. BTW the eq tailors the whole response, not
    just the bass. The 4" drivers don't put out much high end either.
    
    CdH
    
    

>        I don't like the Bose much for anything, but they sound ok for vocals
>    without a lot of effects in a low level environment. They don't seem to
>    have the punch for rock. BTW the eq tailors the whole response, not
>    just the bass. The 4" drivers don't put out much high end either.
    
    I've only heard 801s live once.  They were being used by a guy that
    was only using an electric piano (with vocals).  I thought the sound 
    was decent.
    
    I also own a pair of 901s (series V).  They are the commercial version
    of the 801s (same exact speaker actually, outside of color).  I
    haven't noticed any of the above problems yet.  I'm quite pleased
    with them too!  
    
    A speaker can't be blamed for the poor electronics behind it! :-)
    
    Mike

              <<< Note 1376.16 by PNO::HEISER "bash-n-the code" >>>

>    A speaker can't be blamed for the poor electronics behind it! :-)
    
Mike, 

We were using the 801's in a pro environment, with the full Bose sound system
and PA. There wasn't any "poor electronics" behind it. I was using a Rhodes,
Arp, and Korg. I've heard this same system in other bands. To my ears, they
can't even approach the sound from JBL's. I'm not up on current JBL PA
model numbers, but I've heard bands recently in the Marlboro area, and they
were all using JBL's. Loud, clean, full. I can't say about 901's.

dave

    Dave, I did have a smiley face there, but I was referring to power
    amps and preamps when I said "poor electronics".
    
    Mike