Conference napalm::commusic_v1

    
    Advance Music in Burlington had a clinic for it (and yes, it has
    arrived here in VT) on Wednesday. I was going to start a new topic
    this morning but you beat me to it, Dave. 
    
    After spending two hours getting demoed, I'm not so sure about the
    S-550... Nice instrument.
    
    I got some close up views, here's a quick run-through:
    
    It is a 20 voice, 8 "instrument" instrument.
    This means you can use up to 8 MIDI channels separately and reassign
    voices as needed. Keyboard has new aftertouch like SQ-80. All menu
    driven, naturally. Sounds EXTREMELY clean. Sample rates from 6.25K
    to 52.1K. 40 selectable sample rates (s-550 has 2). Starts with
    a half-meg of memory, expandable to 2 meg. On-board disk, full MIDI
    storage capability. Reads and converts Mirage disks!
    
    Also:
    
    It has a whole bunch of somewhat intelligent looping algorithms
    built in. Sampling on it was extremely fast - hook up a mike, punch
    up the sample page, set the levels, ccapture the sample, and punch
    a few buttons to set up a loop. Took less than 3 minutes to tune
    the sample and loop it and make it sound nifty too.
    
    It actually has three playback modes, 20 voice @31.2KHz, to 12 voices
    @52KHz... 
    
    It has a D-type connector on the back for an expander which allows
    8 separate outputs. Not available until May.
    
    Each wavesample is separately modifiable. You may have 8 loaded
    in the machine at a time. You may play while loading. Awesome.
    
    It has a sequencer, as if this wasn't enough. The sequencer is better
    than the SQ-80 (ESQ V3.5)...80,000 notes for the base unit, if you
    get memory expansion then it is only limited by memory (you share
    with sample memory). Adjustable click!!!!! and you can put it out
    it's own output (when they get the expander box to market)...
    
    Step editing...etc. 20 voices per track. It has somewhat less song
    capability (1) as opposed to the SQ-80. Midi implemetation is scary.
    It supports simultaneous MIDI in, out for separate instruments,
    and up to 8 MIDI zones on the keyboard. 
    
    The disk system allows subdirectories, sysex dumps from other machines,
    and variable-size files with names, even. DMA access (which is why
    the thing can play while loading).
    
    not-so-good things:
    
    If you buy a memory expander you cannot get more memory without
    throwing out the other expander (one, count 'em, one, slot). Due
    to the scarceness of 1Mx16 chips, they said the availability of
    the 2 MEG expander was pushed out probably til August.
    
    It's a 13 bit cruncher. They say it does 24 bit internal processing
    but the sampler is 13 bit. 96db dynamic range. I could not hear
    any discernable noise other than the usual sample aliasing which
    can be filtered out.
    
    The price is about 2K up here (list). I suspect no great deals on
    this in Vermont anyway.
    
    /pjh

    dont expect deals anywhere!!!

    you said something about "8 samples at once".....
    
    this means 8 different voices WITH multisamples across the
    range (how many?) NOT just 8 samples total (!?!) doesnt it?
    

    Hmm... I was left wanting. 
    
    
    Perhaps the EPS at Daddy's in Nausea didn't have the memory expansion,
    but when I tried the factory samples, I couldn't fit more than two
    woices at once in the darn thing. Ayuh, you can play and load. Nice.
    Keyboard stinks, plain and simple. Ensoniq is making a bigger mistake
    than they can imagine by not offering a rack mount version. (Maybe
    they'll really screw things up, and make a keyboardless version,
    and let Alesis design the packaging! ;^)
    
    I though the factory samples stunk. I'm sure it's capable of much
    more. Drum kit was cute, Rock piano stunk, the Digital Piano didn't
    sound much better than my ESQ-1. Mirage samples will be a plus.
    
    The dope at Daddy's didn't know how much it was selling for. 'Duh,
    we just got it in today. Hey, wanna check out this strat?'
    
    dp

    
    re: .2
    
    and I quote: "and the ability to have 127 distinct samples in each
    of the 8 instruments on the keyboard at one time".
    
    Also "20 voices, dynamically assigned".
    
    What it means is that you can press up to 20 keys and get something
    out. Second, you can stack instruments so that more than one voice
    is assigned to a key (less voices), or you can multi-sample (more
    timbres). 
    
    re: .3
    
    I dunno, I had a demonstration from someone from Ensoniq. He admitted
    they didn't have many samples, but he did play the harpsichord.
    It was very good - they have the sound of the quill coming back
    to the string on the aftertouch for instance. Very realistic (and
    I have heard and played many harpsichords in my life). Maybe Daddy's
    just doesn't know how to operate it yet, no?
    
    Yes, I regret not having a rack mount version. The Ensoniq rep lamented
    the fact that people didn't buy them (the ESQ-M was an economic
    disaster apparently for Ensoniq) so they're pretty shy about them
    now. The quantity of samples in memory is a function of how big
    the samples are in the first place. The mirage samples (I heard
    the Mirage piano in the EPS) aren't bad, it still sounds like the
    Mirage piano but it was considerably brighter and for some reason
    I didn't hear the aliasing as much (I don't understand why, if the
    sound was brighter then I should have heard it. Was it the extra
    bit? ???)
    
    Well the people at Advance Music here let me read the manuals and
    sit in the back room. I'm going down Saturday to get a better look.
    I'll report back, again...
    
    Happy Easter
    
    /pjh

    
    I have in front of me three manuals... The S-550, the Korg ESS-1,
    and the Ensoniq EPS.
    
    Peter Wilder at Advance Music was kind enough to spend over an hour
    with me walking me through the different instruments. nd he let
    me take the manuals to read through too. 
    
    So anyway... maybe we can roll through this quickly. What follows
    is a not-too-complete comparison of EPS, 550 and -1, with some pretty
    subjective comments thrown in.
    
    
    Ensoniq EPS: Manual is in English, typeset on a MAC again. The manual
    is a whopping 52 pages (and the price on the back is 7.95 - some
    deal). Ensoniq says that registered buyers of the EPS get the
    two-volume programmers manual (reputed to be about 200 pages more).
    I dunno, I haven't seen it.
    
    Spent about 3/4 hour more with the board. Nice sound, lousy keyboard
    (clacky and stiff), plays Mirage disks. There were only three EPS
    disks at the store, some diabetic strings and the Fantasia sound
    from a D-50 (can't remember the last one). The Mirage rock piano
    sounded nice. The reason I don't hear the aliasing is because Ensoniq
    stores all of it's sampled data in 16-bit format. I still don't
    see how 13 bit resolution plays 16 bit samples back without aliasing
    noise. The different sampling rates are useful - the 52.1K is very
    clean (veeerrry clean). The Instruments are a neat concept. You
    can assign them on the fly - there are even two Patch Select buttons
    on the left near the mod wheel to quickly change characteristics
    or patches. Sampling was very easy. Hook up a mike or line in, adjust
    the level and sample the sound. Another five minutes max to truncate,
    loop, etc. There are about 7 or 8 types of looping available. Very
    intelligent. 
    
    The sequencer only holds one song! (but it holds 80K notes... huh?).
    Sequencer has many ESQ-ish features. Once again, easy to use. The
    manual is helpful but not totally necessary. 
    
    Price:2K. Extras: "2x" memory expander (brings you from 480K to
    896K)...200 bucks. The 4x expander is not available 'til summer
    because of the worldwide dearth of 1Mx16 chips. The 8-out expansion
    port (yes, you have to *buy* the extra 8 outputs) is 250 bucks.
    
    Oh, yeah, the 4x expander has an SCSI port too, for what it's worth.
    
    So total price is about $2450. US.
    
    Roland S-550:
    
    Manual is all in "almost" English (Rolandese). 164 pages. Lots of
    nifty pictures of pull-down menus and waveforms. Not a bad manual
    at that. You really need a color monitor to use this thing. A composite
    monitor sux. The visual editor is totally unintelligent except for
    zero-crossing detection. Mouse takes some getting used to. You may
    load S-50 disks, but it will NOT run the S-50 OS. In fact there
    is a utility to blast the S-50 OS away and replace it with the S-550
    OS. 
    
    No, it does NOT do sysex storage to disk of other devices' MIDI
    data. It should considering the utilities, but no, it does not.
    
    It does do formatting of blank disks, and it doesn't blow away your
    sample in the process (like the Mirage). Where the EPS manual had
    a very nice explanation of the memory utilization, this one was
    buried in the MIDI implementation section.... Ugh. 
    
    32 "tones", 16 "voices", 8-ch polytimbral. Accepts Aftertouch, if
    your keyboard sends it.
    
    Comes with 1.5 meg. Two sample rates, highest is 31.5K. Much more
    difficult to sample and massage the data. More flexible I guess,
    though since you aren't bound to any particular loop. I'm not sure
    about that though.
    
    Price: $2700...expansion includes 80 meg disk and SCSI port w/memory
    but it costs almost 3K itself.
    
    
    Korg DSS-1:
    
    Best sounding one. Easiest of them all to use. Instructions are
    right on the front. Manual is 311 pages long. Looks like the best
    manual. The DSS-1 also has an additive synth capability. Kind of
    reminds me of a Hammond with 10 feet of drawbars on the left side.
    Relatively easy to stack voices. 2 DDLs built in. 16 "multisounds",
    32 "programs". 4 sampling frequencies. 48K is the highest. The memory
    map was in a predictable place (yay!). 
    
    But it has limitations. Only 2-out. No sequencer. Bare-bones keyboard.
    Little tiny window. Very cryptic. 
    
    Price: $1900 + 2x memory expansion = $2400. 
    
    Decisions, decisions....
    
    Any comments, insights from owners, etc?
    
    /pjh
    
    p.s. I have the manuals for a couple of days. 

    Questions and comments:

    1) Does the Korg have a rack-mount version?
    
    2) One should mention that Roland is distributing S-550 samples
       for free.   I know Ensoniq is not.  What about Korg?
    
       I'm inclined towards the S-550 at this point because I don't
       want to get into doing my own samples just now.  Thus the
       shortcomings in the ease-of-use area aren't all that important
       to me at the moment.  With hundreds of free samples, I may never
       need to do it myself.
    
       However, I am VERY dissapointed that you can't do external MIDI
       dumps to it.  That seems like a really valuable feature (EPS
       has it BTW as far as I know (Korg?)) which can easily be
       implemented via software.  Perhaps they will provide it as an
       update at some point
    
    3) Anyone know of any great deals on the S-550.  April 15th isn't
       too far away.
    
    
    	db
    
    p.s.  Anyone notice the cover artwork on EUW's latest flyer?  They
    	  KNOW how music-types spend their tax refunds.

                           
    As an aside to potential 550 buyers...
                            
    Before  banging  down  major domo bucks for the 
    550, you might wanna hang out and see what  the 
    330  will  look  like.   S'posed to be mid/late 
    April release...?  
    

    Uhm, I'm curious as to how they get 96 db out of 13 bits, when it
    takes everybody else 16 bits.  13 bits seems more like 78 db using
    the "6 db per bit" rule of thumb.  Is their encoding scheme nonlinear?
    
    len.
    

    
    re: .6
    
    Korg DSS-1 rack mount = NO
    
    Apparently it's a mature product and they're not into rack mounting
    it. Bummer, since it's physically HUGE. I guess Roland is the only
    affordable rackmount, ergo. 
    
    Disk samples:
    
    Korg = NO, but, you can always trade from someone else. 
    Roland = YES, unequivicably.
    Ensoniq = NO, but, there's a lot of Mirage disk base out there and
    there is quite a public domain library of samples now. I hate the
    fact that Ensoniq puts it to ya by selling samples for 19.95.
    
    RE: .7
    
    330 was covered in another recent topic. Basically a -550 without
    the SCSI port, a little less memory, yet another OS, and half the
    footprint. $2200.
    
    RE:.8 
    
    I am really puzzled by the whole thing. Theoretically you should
    be limited by the bits. Oh, in the spec it has a little unexplained
    blurb: "Floating point output conversion for 96db dynamic range"...
    I have no idea what they really mean by that. They also say the
    following on the same page: "Data storage format: 16 bits", "Sample
    converter: 13 bits", "24-bit internal processing", and "linear phase
    output response for crystal clear high-end". I think I need a shovel.
    
    /pjh

RE < Note 1291.9 by FROST::HARRIMAN "I am not a technovangelist" >
    
>    Korg DSS-1 rack mount = NO

	Isn't the DSM-1 a rack-mount DSS-1?

	Dan
    

    
>    Korg DSS-1 rack mount = NO

KORG DSM-1 is a rack mount.  It is much, much different than a DSS-1
but can read and play DSS-disks (they won't sound the same though,
there are no DDLs in the DSM). The DSM does have separate outputs
for each voice, is multitimberal and has all kinds of neat layering
and mixing features.   

I thought I saw mentioned in an earlier note that that there were no
factory samples for the DSS-1.  Not so - they just added 10 disks to
the DSS-1 sound library bringing the total up to 70.  Lots are junk but
lots are very good.

The DSS-1 is not multitimberal. But it does have the 2 built in DDLs.
It has 8 voices but only one set of stereo outputs. It can now be picked
up for a little over $1k.

DSS easy to use?  Ho..Ho..Ho!  It's easy if you want to stick with
the KORG library wait till you to try to turn some of those samples
into useable multisounds or better yet, try to disect some of the 
factory multisounds (you need to do this if you want to do splits,
layers, or mixes.  I don't want to give the wrong impression here,
it's layed out very nice and easy to understand, as a synth it's 
trivial to uses but when you work at all with samples or try to
do simple disk maintence operations it takes lots of time and lots
of steps.  But for all I know, the other units may be just as bad.

Frank 

>but when you work at all with samples or try to
>do simple disk maintence operations it takes lots of time and lots
>of steps.  But for all I know, the other units may be just as bad.

    Making new multitimbral performance disks and/or dissecting factory
    samples on the Emax is verrrrry simple. One button per menu, all
    menu selections printed right on the case.
    
    karl

    RE .9:
    
    It is possible that the input converter is only 13 bits, while the
    operations you are able to perform on it is 16 bits. I don't know
    this as a fact, but it makes some kind of rudimentary sense to me.
    Fer instance, a digital filter would get rid of the sample noise.
    
    Maybe???
    						John.

    It does make a perverse sort of sense.  If you're running a
    constant-speed output (52 KHz sample rate), you have to do
    interpolation of sample values to "fit" the 52KHz output sample
    rate.                                              
    	
    Therefore, it makes sense to do the interpolation at some larger
    number of bits, (like 24).
    	
    You also have to scale the sample by the output envelope, so you
    end up shifting 13 bits into 16 or more places...
    	
    But you still only have 13 bits of output.  Sillysillysilly, and
    I don't understand how that makes more than 78 dB S/N.  Let me be
    more precise: 13 bits of output can ONLY make 78 dB dynamic range.
    This does assume that the enveloping is done digitally, NOT in analog
    after the D/A converter.
    
    ---------------------
    
    Ensoniq, I held off from buying a Mirage because I didn't want to
    deal with the (in)famous Q-chip that only lets you loop on a 512-sample
    boundary. 
                                  
    Can't you make another machine like the ESQ-1, one that doesn't
    have any "gotchas" hidden in it?
    
    WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO US?!?!?! 
    
    grumblegrumblegrumblegrumblegrumblegrumblegrumblegrumble
    

    >Ensoniq, I held off from buying a Mirage because I didn't want to
    >deal with the (in)famous Q-chip that only lets you loop on a 512-sample
    >boundary.                   
    
     The number is 256 but the point is well taken nonetheless...
    
    Edd
                                 
    

    To elaborate on Bill's (and my earlier) point - with 13 bits, you
    get 78 db of S/N for the simple reason that the quantization error
    (the difference between the "correct" analog value and the 13 bit
    digital approximation to it) limits the S/N to 78 db.  No filtering,
    digital or analog or anything, can remove this "noise" or, if you
    prefer, distortion.  It doesn't matter if you have a jillion bits
    before or after it; if at any point you go through 13 bits, you
    get 78 db S/N.  If you use analog envelopes or filters *after*
    the conversion, all you do is change the nature of the
    noise/distortion.  Sometimes this might be good, but sometimes it
    might be worse.
    
    Sorry, kiddies, there is no Santa Claus and there's no pot of gold
    at the end of the rainbow.  Nor is there a free lunch.
    
    len.
    

    The Music Tech review claims 78 dB something.  I forget whether
    the something is dynamic range or signal to noise.
    
    If you have 16 bit in there somewhere (as they obviously do), then
    I'm sure that you may make the claim that you have 96 dB dynamic
    range, on some operations.  I don't think Ensoniq said 96 dB
    signal-to-noise.

    
    > I don't think Ensoniq said 96 dB signal-to-noise.
    
    You are correct, they said 96 dB dynamic range. Still doesn't make
    sense. They never even said (even in the clinic he eluded this)
    ANYTHING about signal-to-noise. 
    
    /pjh

>They never even said (even in the clinic he eluded this)
>ANYTHING about signal-to-noise. 

    They must train their people to avoid that question.. back when
    I was sampler-shopping I sat in on a Mirage session.. when I asked
    about S/N ratio, he said "I don't know, I'm not an engineer."
    
    .. jerk.
    

    no, not jerk! Clever fox!
    
    Len, we are talking only linear DACs here? Can a non-linear
    representation (floating point, exponetial companding,etc)
    increase signal to noise as well as dynamic range?
    
    Ron_playing_straight_man_role

    Yes, for CERTAIN signals, a companding DAC can do the job...
    
    but ONLY for those certain signals.  
    
    Yecch, I hope they didn't do THAT.  Companding DACs (especially
    those without lots of documentation) can be incredibly hard to figure
    out (so kiss your SoftSynth programs goodbye).
    	
    

    Yeah, the companding DACs I've seen are not true logarithmic. They
    have linear ranges with lograthmic skips. On the louder end, they
    tend to have even more quantization noise. They have a lower noise
    floor during silence, but the signal to noise tracks amplitude,
    and is greater at high volume.
    
    						John.

    Er, I think you mean signal to noise gets WORSE at high volume.
    
    That's the general idea- you put a lot of resolution down in the
    area near +/- zero (where the gentle little stuff is) and have only
    very coarse resolution for the peak signals (which don't last very
    long, and people are used to hearing as clipped anyways).
    	
    It all depends on the typical signal you expect to run through the
    system.

    I think John (.22) is right about the effect of nonlinear encoding
    on S/N and dynamic range.  You get more dynamic range, but at the
    cost of increased quantization noise (just like floating point -
    you can express a broader range of numbers, but the numbers you
    can represent exactly get further apart as they get bigger - with
    linear encoding, like integers or fixed point, the numbers that
    can be exactly represented are always the same distance apart,
    regardless of their magnitude).  Now, floating point makes much
    more sense than integer as an encoding for digital audio, because
    the relative noise of a linearly encoded digital signal increases
    as the signal magnitude decreases (e.g., the magnitude of the low
    order bit is much larger relative to four bits than it is to eight
    bits - 1/16 vs. 1/256).  With floating point representation, the
    relative noise remains constant as a function of magnitude, though
    the absolute noise increases with magnitude. 
    
    Finally, for linear encoding S/N and dynamic range *are the same
    thing*.  If you go through 13 bits anywhere in the chain, and
    everything is linear (e.g., you don't compress before and expand
    after) then you get 78 db of S/N and 78 db of dynamic range.
    
    Note that this S/N is the *best* possible, because it represents
    noise due to quantization error, and doesn't include noise added
    by other sources (e.g., thermal noise from analog components after
    the DAC).  Nor does it include noise due to processing (e.g., numerical
    errors due to roundoff and the propagation of quantization error).
                  
    The dynamic range cannot (without compression and expansion) exceed
    78 db for 13 bit linear encoding.  Period, end of story.
    
    Ensoniq is selling snake oil;  if they use nonlinear encoding, then
    you must pay for what you get in dynamic range with decreased S/N.
    3 more bits worth of dynamic range (a factor of 8, or 18 db) probably
    means 18 db more noise, relative to 13 bits, i.e., 10 bits worth
    of S/N, which is just barely acceptable (about 60db).  What good
    is 96 db of dynamic range with 60 db of S/N?  You can't hear the
    quiet stuff over the noise!  60 db S/N is about what you get with
    a Dolby'ed cassette.
                                          
    len (who admits this analysis may be flawed, but somebody will have
    to convince him).
    

    
    re: .-*
    
      well, academia aside, I went back yesterday afternoon to give
    back the manuals and listened some more. Sampled a "quiet" track,
    yeah, there's noise. If you sample at the right level you don't
    readily hear it. Like everything else, there seems to be an optimum
    level. 
    
      So I plunked down some bucks and ordered one. Delivery = 6 working
    days. I also got the 2x expander (don't need SCSI). With the money
    I am 'saving' from this transaction I will buy an ST. There is an
    after-market product called "alchemy" which according to the blurb
    (and the Ensoniq rep) allows not only additive synthesis but stereo
    sampling (no, I haven't got much more detail than that). I also
    got one of those new Roland 16 channel line mixers. Review will
    be pending delivery of the goods.
    
      FWIW, the EPS sold for $1900 (95 dollar discount, big deal), the
    2x expander was $250 (expensive considering it's just a bunch of
    memory chips), and the mixer was $900. I know I could have gotten
    a better deal on the mixer at P.U. Wurlitzer but I'd either have
    to drive there, or deal with mail order, neither of which I have
    the time to do.
    
      So when I get the board we'll do some more detailed examination.
    
    /pjh_who_finally_made_some_kind_of_decision
    

    
    
    Minor update:
    
      On Friday I received a Ty-Vek envelope from Ensoniq. Inside was
    a blue 10-disk holder with 10 disks, a cover letter, a 10-page guide
    to the disks, a 40 page "Outline to the Advanced Applications Manual"
    containing answers to all the questions I've had since day 3, and
    a feedback card.
    
      The disks contain:
    
      The 1.5 operating system
      a Grand Piano
      Strings, Brass
      A Tenor Sax (I already got an alto)
      Power Drums
      Electric and Acoustic Bass
      Electric, Acoustic and "Dream" Guitars
      scads of soundtrack-ish timbres with hip breathy-type stuff.
    
    Nifty. The cover letter states that I'll get the real "Advanced
    Operations Manual" in October. I bought the unit in April...
    
    Nonetheless, I'm impressed. Ensoniq was nice enough to give me the
    disks as freebies... 
    
    /pjh

    Hi,
    
    I am considering purchasing an EPS with 1 meg of memory here in
    Albuquerque for $1800.00 brand new.  Is this a good price?
    
    Scott

    
    Umm, 1 meg? That's not exactly a supported configuration. Specifically,
    the EPS actually comes with 480K, providing that you have no memory
    upgrades installed. If you have the 2x expander, you get "not quite"
    1 meg. If you are paying $1800 for an EPS with a 2x expander and
    it's not a used machine, then it's a good deal. It's not a bad deal
    if it's just a stock EPS either, but if it is it's not 1 meg. 
    
    /pjh, who owns one.

    BTW, FZ1 comes with 1 upgradeable to 2 meg onboard.
    
    Richard.

    The FZ-1 is an incredible bargain for what it does.
    
    I am very partial to the Roland samplers.  I found their advantages to
    be rather overwhelming.
    
    	o Open Architecture - SW is loaded on boot.  This means you get
    	  	get new SW without requiring replacement of ROMs, etc.
    		Roland is also known for it's continuing support of
    		released products (S-50 updates, MC-500 updates and
    		options)
    
    	o Free library - buy an S-50 and you have access to 100+ disks
    	  of professionally engineered samples.   Just walk into your
    	  Roland dealer with some blank floppies and copy 'em.  Creating
    	  good samples is a science, bordering on black art.  Do not be
    	  fooled into thinking that "I'll just do my own samples".  It
          can be very hard to create a really effective sample. 
    	  After-market stuff is much more important for samples than
    	  for synths.
    
    	  I can buy Nashua brand floppies for as little as 70 cents each,
    	  which means I can have the ENTIRE current Roland sample library
    	  for about the cost of *ONE* aftermarket patch EPROM for synths
    	  like the ESQ-1, D-50, etc.
    
    	o Even though after-market samples are important, you'd be crazy
    	  to get a sampler and not make some samples of your own.  Roland
    	  samplers have significant advantages in this area as well.
    	  
    	  A builtin video interface.   You wanna edit samples on the EPS
          you gotta buy a PC, and the software to do it.  What's more
    	  is you can't hear the results of your editing without loading
    	  the sample back to the EPS (or whatever) from the PC.
    
    	  The Roland gives you the editing software (truncation, digital
    	  filtering, automatic looping, wave smoothing (for looping),
    	  wave drawing, etc. WITH the unit that runs using the samplers
    	  builtin video ports (composite video or 9-pin).  Because the
    	  editing software is built INTO the sampler you can hear your
    	  edits AS you're doing them.
    
    	  I have found this to be pretty important and much more efficient.
    
    	o To my ears, the Roland samplers sound better.  For one thing,
    	  the S-330 and S-550 have real-time digital filters (a lot less
    	  noisey than analog filters).  They also have a process somewhat
    	  like oversampling but using *predictive* techniques that
    	  eliminate a lot of "digital noise/grunge."
    
    I mention these not to "talk anyone out of" getting a non-Roland
    sampler.  I mention these because I think these are all subtle
    advantages (and I should mention that not all of them are UNIQUE 
    to Roland) and the Roland literature and the guys selling Roland
    stuff at places like Daddy's are not good at explaining the advantages.
    
    What don't I like about the Roland samplers?  OK, I'll tell you
    (again):
    
    	The manual for the S-550 is the sorriest excuse for a manual
    	I have ever seen.  It's so full of errors, so poorly written,
    	and some incomplete that it at times infuriates me.
    
    	And yet, I've still managed to figure the thing out so....
    
    	I mean, unlike any other sampler in the price range, the user
    	interface uses a mouse and a video screen so it's obviously it's almost
    	automatically a better interface than the rest.
    
    Also, the S-50 doesn't have a pressure sensitive keyboard and the EPS
    does.  This *IS* signiifcant.   However, the Roland's do interpret
    channel pressure (if you want them to).  So my advice is to plan on
    getting a pressure sensitive keyboard (I recommend the SQ-80) and get 
    the sampler in a rack-mount.

>    	  A builtin video interface.   You wanna edit samples on the EPS
>          you gotta buy a PC, and the software to do it.  What's more
>    	  is you can't hear the results of your editing without loading
>    	  the sample back to the EPS (or whatever) from the PC.

    
    Huh? You wanna edit samples on the EPS, you hit <edit><wave> and
    play in the menu. You can hear the results of the edits immediately,
    usually without even re-depressing a key. 
    
    When your "sample" consists of between 12 and 38 separate wavesamples
    layered in 1 to 3 or 4 layers, a single wavesample doesn't apply.
    This is one of the great things about the EPS in the first place.
    Sure, you can eat memory with a large sample (which you got via
    the sample dump standard from someone else's box) but you'd be VERY
    surprised at how small some of the more expressive samples are.
    
    I'm not convinced that seeing your waveforms is any more useful
    than hearing them. Once upon a time I was synthesizing with a scope
    hooked up to the output of the synth. I found it to be next to useless,
    unless you were just having fun making Lissajous patterns or something
    like that. The EPS has about 16 separate data massage functions
    which I find much easier than the Roland's (IMHO) and you save almost
    a kilobuck on video/memory/mouse/etc. 
    
    I do agree, the Roland sounds cleaner, usually. I've heard some
    pretty ratty samples too. The EPS reads Mirage disks, there are
    well over 1200 commercially available Mirage sample disks, not counting
    the EPS library which is growing as well. I now have over 50 disks
    of samples, and I only paid for one ($20) and that was worth it.
    
    
    I'm not trying to rebut your comments, just trying to set the record
    straight.
    
    /pjh    
    

    Well, I mean... you have a point that you can "edit" samples on
    the EPS and hear it right away.
    
    But let me ask you one question:
    
    	Why is there (so much) PC software to edit samples for EVERY
    	major non-Roland sampler, and NONE to edit Roland samples?
    
    	db

    Because the Mirage is such a pig to edit on... Even Ensoniq says
    it's a pig (i.e. Not Recommended for major sample editing).
                                                                        
    ...and until the EPS, what else was there but the Mirage and the
    Megabuck Machines (like Emulator II and Synclavier and Fairlight...)?
    Remembering that both the Sync and the CMI have built-in video tubes
    with light pens or tablets to do editing with...
    
    	-Bill

    Thanks Paul for the memory explanation.  I guess they (the music
    store) were rounding up.
    
    db,  I definitely agree with your points regarding Roland samplers,
    in fact I own an S-550.  Why, then would I want to by an EPS?  Well,
    I really want to get a board with poly aftertouch, I like the
    performance buttons and the fact that you can load samples at the
    same time as playing, not to mention the fact that it can accept
    dumps from other synths onto its floppy (I wish my S-550 could),
    and there are others which unfortunately brain cramps have set in and
    I cannot remember them.  I do like the SQ-80 but I already have
    an ESQ-1 (which in Albuquerque I could never sell) and I am not
    too keen on getting another 8-voice "synth".  However, if someone
    were willing to take the ESQ-1 off my hands, well then...
    

    Scott_who_wishes_one_keyboard_had_all_the_neat-o_features_AND_a_reasonable
         -price

BTW, the FZ1 has a great graphic display for editing/creating waveforms.
    
    And the 'Essential Guide to Applications' 3rd-party manual tells
    you how to make the most of it.
    
    Richard.

    > I like the performance buttons
    
    Those are definitely a good idea.  However, one question I was never
    able to get answered was "what MIDI data do they send"?
    
    I talked to the Roland guy about that and he said that they definitely
    are "following Ensoniq's lead" (remember this is a Roland guy saying
    this!) in the area of Polyphonic aftertouch and performance buttons.
    
    While he "couldn't" (either in the sense of not being "allowed" or
    not being "able") give me any specific.  It seems almost certain
    that the next release of the sampling software will have stuff to
    do that (probably by STANDARD MIDI modulators).
    
    So at the moment it's vaporware.  No question about that.  But the
    way I looked at it, even with points off for being vaporware, the
    advantages of the Roland were overwhelming in terms of my personal
    priorities.
    
    >I do like the SQ-80, but I already have an ESQ-1
    
    I had an ESQ-1 which I sold to get an SQ-80.  I know of two other
    people who are doing or have done the same.
    
    > Not to mention the fact that it can accept MIDI Sysex dumps from
    > non-Ensoniq machines
    
    This was a big factor for me also.  I told the Roland rep that I
    thought this was a big factor in my getting an SQ-80 over a D-20,
    and that I thought it should be added to D-20 follow-ons and that
    it should definitely included in the utilities package disk for
    the S-550.
    
    Strangely enough he wasn't nearly so positive about this as with
    the "poly-pressure + performance keys" stuff.
    
    One thing he failed to point out that I realized later is that
    if the SYS-553 sequencer program for the S-550 is truly "like an
    MC-500", then you can use THAT program to store Sysex datadumps
    usings the S-550's disk drive.
    
    	db

    
    re: .32 db
    
      Is it because nobody understands Roland manuals enough to write
    something to talk to Roland samplers? ;^)
    
      Or maybe, more seriously, Roland hasn't cooperated with any
    developers, since they are marketing their own software...?
    
    re: .36
    
>    > I like the performance buttons
>    
>    Those are definitely a good idea.  However, one question I was never
>    able to get answered was "what MIDI data do they send"?
    
    Which performance buttons? The two PATCH buttons don't appear to
    cause the EPS to send MIDI at all, since they are internal architechure
    only. The eight 'Instrument' buttons output Program Change 1-8 (and
    if you send PC1-8 to the EPS it selects them)... with caveats, of
    course, such as 'no stacking', for instance.
    
    I could check the implementation guide for better answers. I have
    not gotten good answers from the music stores, Ensoniq reps and
    my own experience have been more helpful than anything.
    
    /pjh
    
    

    Actually, as with most Roland products, the MIDI interface of the S-550
    is very well documented in an appendix in the manual.  It's one of the
    things Roland is pretty good about generally.
    
    > Or maybe Roland hasn't cooperated with any developers, since they
    > are marketing their own software?
    
    They aren't really "marketing" their own software.  You get it with the
    unit.  They would not lose any money by having 3rd party software to do
    it.  If anything, it would make the product slightly more attractive
    (more options on how to use it).
    
    Anyway, we're really ducking what was obviously a leading
    question.  It seems readily apparent that the reason why there are 
    so many sample editors for non-Roland stuff and none for Roland stuff is
    because there's a NEED for them with non-Roland stuff, and it
    COMES with the Roland samplers.
    
    No question but that if you are not planning to do much sampling
    yourself, the lack of a video interface on other units is a non-issue.
    
    However, if you aren't gonna do much sampling yourself I would think
    that the FREE Roland sample library would be a major factor as well.
    
    I guess it's just pretty obvious that I'm very impressed with
    the Roland samplers.  I guess despite my efforts to resist, I have
    become a member of the RRR (Raucous Roland Renegades).
    
    	db

    
   well, more power to you. ;^)
    
    
    
    

    I'd still be interested to hear a definitive statement of what MIDI
    data the EPS performance keys translate to.
    
    I mean the real question is can they be sequenced using an external
    sequencer?
    
    	db

    program *performance* keys into a sequencer? 
    
    humph...
    
    Richard.

    
    re: .-2, .-1
    
     SYSEX parameters. I'll post 'em when I'm back from vacation.
    
     Bye y'all, gone to the Cape for a week, back Thursday.
    

    
    re: .-3,.-2,.-1
    
       Hey I found out these are just controllers. Documented in the
    new version of the MIDI implementation for the EPS as well....
    
       Depending on the button pair (00/01/10/11) you get different
    controller numbers. They get sent out the MIDI too. My sequencer
    can pick 'em up. 
    
       I get amazed by these things sometimes... ;^)
    
    /pjh

	Here is some more info on my latest equipment failure.

	My EPS, serial # 475, seems to have developed a thermal instability.
	Manifestation is pretty catastrophic - basically it up and crashes
	after about an hour of being powered up, and unless you let it sit
	and cool down it won't reboot (won't even read disks, tune the keyboard
	or let you push keypad buttons)... 

	Appears to be the power supply. Ensoniq is *immediately* sending
	a new power supply, and the dealer will replace it. Nobody has
	said anything about paying for any of this (I *am* still under
	warranty for this sort of thing)... 

	Interesting development, though. My EPS gets a pretty reasonable
	amount of use but is hardly beaten on, as it has probably only logged
	about 200 miles of travel (my Polysix probably did about 900 miles it's
	first year, and is still ticking along 6 years and 3000 miles later).

	Ah well. Winsome, Losesome.

	/pjh

    Paul,
    	Sorry to hear your EPS is not feeling well. I wanted to make
    sure that I wouldn't be a victim of "infant mortality" and kept
    mine powered up for long periods of time befor my firt gig to "burn
    it in". This doesn't sound like your situation though.
    
    Do you use a case to transport it? Hard or soft? Do you expose it
    to temperature extremes? Cold car to warm studio or vice/versa?
    
    					concerned EPS owner
    					Mark
    

	Honest, Ma, I didn't do anything!

	Seriously, though, that unit gets almost obsessive care. It never
	goes anywhere outside of it's (softshell) case, nobody carries it
	but me, and it rarely goes anywhere anyway. It lives it's life shuffling
	between rooms at the studio. It does (and has) run for long periods
	of time. I don't know... It does get rather warm in the control room
	(when you have about 3000 watts dissipating into 800 cubic feet
	it can get a bit warm) but everything else in the room works fine,
	in fact, most of the stuff has never had a failure... 

	As I said, I suspect marginal power supply regulation as the culprit.
	At least you'll know what it is if it happens to you. Mine is a 
	rather early unit, it's quite possible I would be one of the earlier
	failures because they hadn't gotten their production ramp stabilized
	yet.

	/pjh

    I suppose if I wanted to be truly safe I would mount a small fan
    on my stand to blow air across the power supply heat sinks. Mine
    get (almost) too hot to touch. 
    
    Since I just bought mine around September I would *hope* that Ensoniq
    had their mfg act together. (Now if they could only get their
    documentation together!)
    
    					Mark
    

	Ah, but Mark, the documentation *is* together now. ;^)
	(hope I'm not hitting a hot button too hard, but I got mine)!

	I thought about fans, but the problem is they are quite annoying,
	especially during mixing (drooooooooonnnnnneeeeeeee in the background
	really doesn't help) and besides, there's no excuse, it used to work
	and it doesn't now, and it got worse along the way.
	
	But it was a consideration. Mine, by the way, *was* too hot to
	touch, which is not really normal, nor is it what I remembered last
	time I reached back there. 

	I love equipment failures. Don't you? :^(

	/pjh

    
    Get a 3" 22 cfm multiblade fan, commonly known as a Whisper Fan.
    They move enough air to keep your equipment cool*er* but are almost
    silent. If you can't find one send me some mail.
    
    Chris
    

    re: .48
    Paul,
    	Please accept my apologies if I pushed one of your buttons.
    I completely agree that you should NEVER have had such a problem.
    As an engineer, I am offended to think that what was perhaps a defective
    *design*, was allowed out the factory door.
    
    				May your repairs be fast and complete,
    				Mark

	Oh, gee, Mark. Don't worry about it. Equipment failures make me
	crabby... I have lots of fans kicking around, I used to buy them at
	Eli Heffron's in Cambridge MA for about 8 bucks apiece. The whisper
	fans are fine, but like I said, if it doesn't have it's own fan
	then I shouldn't have to cool it. At the Reggae Festival this summer,
	the temperature on stage was around 95F, and the only problem was that
	the Mono-Poly drifted considerably, everything else worked fine.

	Well the new power supply should be in today. I'll let y'all
	know when it's rectified (no pun intended).

	/pjh

    
    I can't believe it.  Only last month I bought my first Midi device
    (Alesis HR16 and MIDIVerb II).
    
    Today I got my EPS.  The serial number is 17321-F with a manufacture
    date of 12-Jan-1989.  The OS is version 2.20
    
    The Musicians Manual is Part # 9310002701
    The Advanced Applications Guide is Part # 9310 0029 01-A
    
    Are these the "new" manuals you're talking about?
    
    I got the EPS with 2x Expander + SCSI for $1870
    
    UNFORTUNATELY, they are out of the 2x until Monday, so I just have
    the EPS at home.  Doesn't seem to be a whole lot you can do without
    the extra memory.
    
    The dealer says that when the 4x + SCSI comes out, they will take
    100% trade in on the 2x.
    
    I'M SO EXCITED!!!!!  But tell me, what do I do with my Casio SK5?
    
    Sample it with the EPS?  HA HA HA HA ;-}}}
    
    "jackin' the house", Bob
    

	Congratulations on your new purchase. Hope you find it as fun as
	the rest of us seem to.

	Feel free to ask questions about it. I've had mine almost a year,
	and a few others here have had theirs almost as long. 

	The sample library is growing. At some point (if I can find a 
	3.5" disk with Kermit on it for an ST) I'll download some samples
	to the network.

	/pjh

    re: .52
    Congrats on your new toy! I've had mine about 4 months. Owning it
    has been like a good marriage. The longer I own it the more I love
    it. They really thought about the performing musician when they
    designed this synth.
    
    I haven't looked at my manuals recently but you should eventually
    get a total of three. There is the Advanced Application guide (?),
    Musician's manual, and (I think) the Users Guide. The third manual
    will be mailed to you when its available *if* you filled out your
    warranty card.
    
    re: .53
    Paul, 
    	It'll be real nice to be able to exchange programs over the
    net. I only hope that you don't find Kermit before I finally decide
    to get an MIDI interface for my PC. Otherwise it will drive me nuts
    to see all those programs and not be able to get at them! ;-}
    
    
    					regards,
    					Mark
    

    Ok, I've just gotta ask - what's a *good* price on one of these, and
    where did you get the quote?

-b

    re: .55
    Brad,
    	There may not be a straight forward answer to your question.
    Options etc... may confuse the true price.
    
    I went in on a three EPS group purchase.
    
    	EPS with 2X memory (SCSI option avail as upgrade)
    	2 - audio cords 15'
    	2 - MIDI cords  15'
    	access to all the free program samples in the store
    
    		Price $1995 (including 5% Mass sales tax)
    
    
    	I think that was a good price. 
    
    				regards,
    				Mark

	re: Mark

	well at the rate I'm going it's gonna be a while. The Vermont Atari
	User's group has a grand total of 30 members, none of whom have
	Kermit (don't ask me why). Unless I can get bootstrapped with
	something else to get Kermit up (what a thought, bootstrap a
	bootstrap to get the loader for the loader...argh) I'm never going
	to get Bulkdump over to the ST. 

	ah well, happy monday.

	/pjh

    
    
    Hello,
    
    Give me you mail address and I'll send you a disk with,
    Bulkdump, Uniterm (kermit) etc.
    
    Ok??
    
    Jason.
    

	ask and ye shall receive.... 

	why didn't I do this six months ago...

    Yesterday I was poking aroung on the EPS and in EDIT ENV3 I discovered
    a Reverb setting! This is the envelope that controls the amplifier
    output. Hmmm... sounded like a reverb unit had been added to my
    EPS for free. Now I know there are limitations, it has to be set
    up on a per instrument basis etc... but it seems to me you could
    make a case that the EPS has, for all practical purposes, built
    in reverb. Has anyone else played with this?
    
    					Mark
    

RE < Note 1291.60 by LEDDEV::HASTINGS >

	Just guessing, but I would doubt that this setting really meant reverb
in the way you are thinking.  There is a 'trick' by which you can simulate
reverb by extending the amplifier envelope release rate longer than the filter
envelope release rate.  This gives a dull kind of 'tail' to the sound that, if
done right, is a loose approximation of reverb.  The TX81Z has a parameter in
its programming that is called REVERB, too, but it is really the same thing that
I just explained.

	Dan

    re: .60
    
    This is also one of the less mentioned one-pluses of the Ensoniq SQ-80
    (over the ESQ-1), although it can be done for anything controlled
    via an envelope (it's a feature of the envelopes).
    
    It's a poor substitute for reverb because it eats up voices.  I.E.
    your "reverb" vanishes abruptly when you push that 9th note.
    
    	db

           Santa brought me a Yahahahah DD-5 drum thingie for Christmas.
    I love it!! Midi'd up to my EPS, this thing is a blast. I can finally
    get REAL sounding drum parts in a reasonable amount of time. What would
    really make this a KILLER is if I could get the sustain pedal to
    somehow trigger a NOTE-ON. It appears that the pedal can be used as
    a CONTROLLER and used to modulate just about anything. I played with it
    for a while but couldn't get it to work. (Damn, Dave O, why can't you
    still be here 8'( ) I don't want (can't) spend the bux to get a
    trigger/trigger to MIDI converter. 
    	Can any EPS junkies help me out? I've just got this feeling that
    this CAN be done. Just haven't quite got it yet....
    
            Thanks!!!!!!!
    
    Frank
    

    
    re: .-1
    
    I haven't been able to coerce the EPS to give a note-on from either
    pedal or the CV input. Seems like a software limitation.
    
    /pjh

	Any of you EPS or EPS-M owners put a SCSI disk onto your EPS or
	EPS-M yet?

	I just bought a PS Systems 4x expander and SCSI controller for my
	EPS, and after some surgery, installed it (anybody want or need a 2
	year old 2x expander?). 

	Trouble is, here I am with a SCSI controller and no disk. So I'm
	shopping for one. Of course, I need one with it's own case and
	power supply, and it has to have a DB25 connector instead of the
	Molex ones everybody else uses. I'd build my own with enough info.

	Did anyone else know that the format of the EPS disks is Mac? I just
	found that out in the documentation for the SCSI controller. 

	/pjh

Mac's go from db25 to the centronics type 50 pin so one of their cables would 
probably work  -- check the pinouts on a Mac SYSTEM SCSI cable

Chad

	> Any of you EPS or EPS-M owners put a SCSI disk onto your EPS or
	> EPS-M yet?
    
    I don't even own an EPS (yet) but I've been thinking about it and have
    been talking to Eddie Fritz (who says "hi!" to all his COMMUSIC
    acquaintances, by the way) at Brian Guitars about this topic.  So,
    here's what I think I know...

	> Trouble is, here I am with a SCSI controller and no disk. So I'm
	> shopping for one. Of course, I need one with it's own case and
	> power supply, and it has to have a DB25 connector instead of the
	> Molex ones everybody else uses. I'd build my own with enough info.
    
    I think it uses a DB25 because it's expecting a MAC-ish drive.  Macs
    use DB25 as their SCSI system cables so I think any MAC SCSI "system"
    cable should do.  ("System" cable here measn DB25 on 1 end and 50 pin
    on the other end.)  Many external Mac drives come with one of these
    cables so it's worth asking about.

	> Did anyone else know that the format of the EPS disks is Mac? I just
	> found that out in the documentation for the SCSI controller. 
    
    Since the EPS seems to use the MAC format, I would think a good place
    to look for a hard disk for the EPS would be the usual Mac mag ads
    (like in MACuser, MACworld, etc.) and poke around.  Also, the MACINTOSH
    notes conference has an on-going discussion of inexpensive hard disks. 
    On Usenet, I seem to recall some discussions that there may be a
    restriction on what kinds of disks the EPS can either initialize or
    read.  I would imagine that a call to Ensoniq or your Ensoniq dealer
    would be wise before you buy the disk to make sure the disk you buy
    will work.
    
    For what it's worth, I'm thinking of getting a 45meg removable hard
    disk.  Thus, I could have a few 45 meg disks for the EPS and use some
    other 45 meg disks to back up my Mac's internal disk (easier than
    floppies).
    
    As one final reference point, I have recently seen ads for internal or
    external 80 meg Quantum disks for ~$599 (+ shipping) in some ads in
    MacUser.
    
    - John -

    
    The Transoniq Hacker publishes a list every month of drives that
    *Ensoniq* has verified will work with the EPS.  I'l try to remember to
    post the latest list.  Use of nonverified drives has caused lots of
    problems for users based on mail in the Hacker and over USENET.
    
    						Brian

	I'd appreciate any info I can get. I'm an Atari and Clone user, not
	a Mac hack. The PS systems SCSI controller is a WD1003, so I'd suspect 
	the EPS operating system first. Maybe it's time to subscribe to
	Transoniq hacker. It's probably unavoidable that I'll end up having
	to get into Mac stuff too. Ugh, too much conflict of standards.

	/pjh

The glory of standards and their implementation

"blessed" drives






Chad

    May or may not be relevant, but....
    
    When attaching a SCSI drive to a MAC laser printer (NTX), the drive
    MUST be able to return its size (standard SCSI command) for it to
    be recognised. Not all drives do this and consequently wont be seen
    by the SCSI controller on the printer.  
    
    This may be one of the things that contribute to a "blessed drive".
    
    Ken
    

    From the May 1990 TH:
    
    Tested and Approved Hard Drives For EPS:
    
    Rodime		45 plus, 60plus, 100plus, 140plus
    
    CMS	  		43SD, 20SD, 30SC, SDU30
    
    Microtek		Nova40
    
    Eltekon		OVD-20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 80, 90, 120
    (this is what I saw the Ensoniq rep using at a clinic recently)
    
    General Computer	Hyperdrive FX/20
    
    Mass Micro		Mass 30e
    
    SupraDrive		MacPlus 20
    
    
    Current OS for the EPS and EPS-M is 2.4, FWIW.
    
    						
    								Brian
    

	Thanks,

	After checking around here (Vermont), I find that my choices are
	exceedingly limited. The only reputable Mac dealer sells either
	Genuine Apple or some other brand that's not on the list and requires
	a special driver for the Mac to work with it (which makes me doubt
	the EPS will like it). I suppose I could go down there and buy a
	Mac rag to find out who sells these, but if anyone has a handy 
	pointer to help me figure out a good price on one, I'd sincerely
	appreciate it. Or some place in Massahampshire that might have one
	I can get. My experience with dealers in Vermont is that they're 
	usually happy to order one for you, you wait three weeks, and they
	charge you at least list price for it when it comes in. Such a 
	privilege.

	/pjh

	I also heard that there is another version of the EPS OS on it's way.
	No release notes yet, but it's supposed to provide significant
	enhancements, and I heard that it's also gonna be the last upgrade
	we get from Ensoniq for the EPS. Probably just another rumor, but has
	anybody else heard this?

	/pjh

    Hi  
    
       I too am a proud owner of an EPS also.  re: to 1291.74 about
    the operating system being upgraded is true.  I have recently purchased
    a sample editing program called EPS-Sense for IBM computers and
    clones.  Everything works fine in the program except the most important
    feature that I bought the software for doesn't work.  Yup you guessed
    it; it's the waveform editing feature.  Well anyway I was talking
    to one of the authors who wrote the program and he said that he
    just recently finished talking to the person who was doing the code
    for the new OS for the EPS.  This new OS will fix the problem of
    wave sample dumps that EPS-Sense depends on to view wave sample
    info.  I am sitting on the edge of my seat waiting for this new
    OS to come out so that I can utilize this program to edit wave samples.
     I am still new to sampling so a visual editing aid will help me along
    until I become more familar with looping.  I bought my EPS at the
    last clinc at Union Music.  I believe that I was the only person
    that night to buy anything that night.  
    
    Calvin F.

            <<< DNEAST::SYS$TOOLS:[NOTES$LIBRARY]COMMUSIC.NOTE;2 >>>
             -< * * Computer Music, MIDI, and Related Topics * * >-
================================================================================
Note 2578.0                 EPS Hard Drive solutions                  No replies
CACHE::FONTAINE                                      20 lines  19-FEB-1991 14:59
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    I tried to find a note somewhere containing this information but was
    unable to, soooo i'll start a new one. I'm getting ready to dust off
    my gear after about a year vacation and want to get a hard drive
    happening for my EPS. I know that there are plenty of solutions
    available out there but none of them are cheap. I have a couple of
    ST-506 drives laying around from my PC-Clone adventures and I know
    that Adaptec makes a SCSI to ST-506 adaptor board (4000A?) so the
    question is, will this work? If so, what else is required (I have the
    2x memory expander) such as cableling and does anyone know of a good
    source for the "pieces" I need. Seems to me that if you have the drive
    laying around, that you should be able to get up and running for under
    $200. I've heard that the SCSI connector on the EPS is non-standard.
    What kind of connector might I find on the Adaptec SCSI to ST506 board?
    Someone out there must have done this already. Any discussion on this
    would be extremely helpful. I think the Adaptec board can be had for 
    around $100. About $30 for a small switching supply. And for those that
    don't have an ST506 drive laying around, used ones can be had at these
    computer shows for under $200. Any Ideas!
    
    -Andre

>>    and I know
>>    that Adaptec makes a SCSI to ST-506 adaptor board (4000A?) so the
>>    question is, will this work? If so, what else is required (I have the
>>    2x memory expander) such as cableling and does anyone know of a good
>>    source for the "pieces" I need.

	not sure, but it might. The cabling is actually rather straightforward,
	and most of the pieces can be gotten from either Radio Shack or
	an Apple dealer.

>> I've heard that the SCSI connector on the EPS is non-standard.

	it's not 50 pin scsi, if that's what you mean. It's a 25 pin D connector
	that incidentally follows the MacIntosh 25 pin SCSI format.

>>  What kind of connector might I find on the Adaptec SCSI to ST506 board?
>>    Someone out there must have done this already. Any discussion on this
>>    would be extremely helpful.

	Have you tried the IBMPC, MACINTOSH and ATARIST conferences?

	NAC::IBMPC, MOSAIC::MACINTOSH, MAY14::ATARIST?

	I seem to remember a discussion about this, though not related to
	hooking up an EPS.

	/pjh

    	The Adaptec 4000A has a standard 50 pin flat SCSI input cable and
    34/20 pin cables out to the RD drive.  I believe it does have the
    capability to run 2 drives, but have no idea how the EPS might deal
    with that.
    
    	If you're interested, I have a new Adaptec 4000A with manual that I
    recently bought to interface an RD53 to my Atari-ST, but decided not
    to use...  I paid $100 for it, but would take $75 for it...
    
    Brian
    

re        <<< Note 1291.77 by PAULJ::HARRIMAN "Do not annoy the monkeys." >>>
>                         -< define "non standard"... >-

>	Have you tried the IBMPC, MACINTOSH and ATARIST conferences?

>	NAC::IBMPC, MOSAIC::MACINTOSH, MAY14::ATARIST?

	....I would be remiss if I didn't put in the usual plug for 
the Amiga conference too (-:, (-:

	BOMBE::AMIGA

	I made an entry about a week ago on this subject, it lists the 
name, address, phone number, part numbers and prices of an outfit that
specializes in "parts", boxes, cables, etc.   50-25 pin cables are in 
there too.   The topic is 4491, it started out as a request for the 
25-50 pin wiring diagram      .....my reply is .13

	Reg

	I spent my Memorial Day in the studio playing with SampleMaker
	and the EPS. SampleMaker is a 60-op FM waveform generator that
	can also upload samples via SDS, runs on the Atari.  

	Anyway, I generated some waveforms, downloaded them to the EPS,
	mucked around with the loop points, and got some tiny samples.
	I mean, tiny. 4-7 blocks. Using SampleMaker I was able to make
	a pretty reasonable DX7ish "tiney" piano wavesample, 4 blocks
	long. By creating another layer, and copying the wave parameters,
	then detuning slightly, and panning to stereo, etc., I got
	a nice flanged digipiano in 7 blocks. One of the nicest things
	about the EPS that I haven't spent much time with is the
	"synth side", i.e. filters and EGs. You get separate EGs and
	2 filters for each layer. So by doing some traditional patch-work
	on the waveforms, I got slightly separate decays between the
	two layers, and some expression by using the second lowpass
	filter for each modulated by the key velocity. 

	Of course, some interesting side effects. If the waveform is
	too short, you can get confused trying to set the loop points,
	because the loop click gets fast enough to become a frequency
	component in itself, which confuses the pitch. The EPS is
	not particularly gracious when you accidentally or otherwise
	set the loop begin past the loop end (ouch. crash, sometimes).
	And I found out all over again about frequency shift; the EPS
	tries to assign a root key all by itself, if the waveform
	frequency isn't the same as the root frequency, you have to
	go find the right one (pitch page), then tune up or down
	to get the pitch to match the keys. And you have to do that
	for each waveform you load in, even the parameter copies. I
	guess that's a feature ;^).

	And the sample frequency becomes more important when you are
	using small waveforms. The distortion inherent in a lower
	sample frequency really shows up when the waveform is small,
	and you push the playback frequency (play higher notes). 

	I hadn't seen many useful samples under 120 blocks. Now I have
	a 4 block organ, a 7 block digipiano and a 10 block clavinet.

	Kind of like having an SQ-80, a sampler and a DX-7 all at the
	same time. At least it takes up a tad less real estate. I've had
	my EPS for 3 years now, I still keep finding new things to do with it.

	/pjh 

    From USENET, an EPS mailing list pointer:
    
From: [email protected] (Joe Niski)
Subject: EPS mailing list
Date: 12 Jun 91 19:21:16 GMT
 
Hi netters:
 
For some time now i've been responsible for a mailing list for people 
interested in the Ensoniq EPS sampling keyboard.  The list hasn't seen much 
traffic lately, but with the articles i've seen recently regarding the EPS 16+,
i thought it was time post the address again.
 
The address for the mailing list is [email protected].  To be added to or removed
from the list, send mail to [email protected].
 
This was formerly a bitnet address, but we're dropping bitnet at the end of
June.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Niski						[email protected]
Mac Support Coordinator
Reed College, Portland, OR 97202			503-777-7525
-- 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Joe Niski						[email protected]
Mac Support Coordinator
Reed College, Portland, OR 97202			503-777-7525