Conference kaosws::canada

    one of my former bosses was a draft dodger. Masters in Computer Science
    from MIT. (Second smartest person I ever worked for).
    
    As I remeber it as long as they caused no problems, they were more or less
    welcome.
    
    
    							Derek.

    Lots of 'em live in B.C. and are still hippies.

    
    
     As far I can remember there was little press on this issue at the time.
     You new it was there but most people were'nt very bothered with it.
     (we canadians are to busy devoting next to all of our social energies
     into constitutional sqabbling). 
     
     Besides there are so many common bonds between Canada & the U.S. that
     I believe most people felt as if cousin Sam from the south had had a
     disagreement with his wife & decided to leave her & move into the
     neighborhood.
    
     The integration of U.S. citizen into canadian society seems pretty
     natural to me given the quasi non-existence of a culture shock. 
    
     I believe a large segment of the canadian population was kinda 
    sympathetic to these people. I've met a few who have established a good
    life here & have embraced the country. Besides, Vietnam was no way
    for anybody to go. One person in particular harboured a deep resentment
    to fact that the U.S. was even involved in this war & the purposes it
    fed, namingly spoon feeding the U.S military industries. 
    
    So most of these people were'nt seen as "draft dodgers" & yellow,
    but as people who were in utter disagreement with their own goverment
    & had little choice but to move on in order to respect their beliefs.
    
                                                 Regards J.P.
    
    
    

    
    J.P.
    
    You were saying that not many people were bothered with the draft
    dodgers.  Canadians are to busy with the consitutional sqabbling.  Can
    you tell me more about what's going on at that time in Canada?
    
    I am trying to write an essay about the U.S. immigrants coming to
    Canada between the 60s and 70s and what the impact on Canada.  There
    isn't must materials discuss this matter rather the Vietnam War.  I am
    trying to get a bit oral history on the subject and see if I can relate it
    to what happen at that time.
    
    jc

    
    
    Hey J.C.
    
    Canada was a hip swingin' country during 60's & 70's. The incoming
    govt' of the late sixties known as the Trudeau era(1968 to early
    eighties) & was a slightly left of centre on the political spectrum.
    It was a time when Canada was searching for it's soul & was ripe for
    social & economic experimentation on every front. Trudeau never got
    along woth "Tricky Dicky", would meet with celebraties like John &
    Yoko, who were really into "peace & love" and genuinely pi$$ed off the
    american administration on a number of occasions(read "Grits" by Christina
    McCall-NewMan). A grand example was the National Energy Program.
    Unfortunately he alienated the western part of the country with this
    but that's another story.
    
    It would take to long to get into the details. Let's just say he was
    a most controversial figure & seemed to be at the for front of a 
    mentality that wanted to distance itself away from the U.S.. Canada
    had just gotten it's new flag a few years back & most of the country was
    tired of being seen as "America's boring second fiddle". So I don't
    want to attribute all the credit to him, i'm just saying that he
    was one of the many forces of the time amongst many others.
    
    So Canada openly flaunted itself to the world with a rash of confidence
    never seen(i.e. World Expo 67, laws to keep goverment out of "the
    bedrooms of the nation", experimentation with Galbraith economics &
    generally very liberal policies on just about everything. 
    
    So to "draft dodgers" or people with a mild lean to the left, Canada may
    have appeared like a Danemark or a Sweden in North America.
    They probably felt their philosophical development may have been better
    served in this country.  
    
    The western-world youth of the time were generally very pacifist in
    nature & were very united by their pop culture & music which was
    to say the least quite a powerful social voice unlike today's pop
    culture that tends to segregated youth in more smaller managable groups.
    
    It was the "in" thing for artists of the time to rally into anti-war &
    anti-establishment slogans, i.e. Neil Young.
    
    
    So all in all I believe the mood in the country at the time
    was very attractive to the idealism of the sixties & seventies.  
    Most of the "draft dodgers" blended in with the already existing
    youth social stuctures, & in time,grew older, shead there long hair or
    lost it(not me!) & settled into yuppy positions. 
    
                                                      Regards J.P.
                                                       

    J.P.
    
    Correct me if I am wrong.  By reading Canada under Trudeau would give
    me a better picture of what's going on in Canada at that time?
    
    Thanks for the info.
    
    jc

    Ok they have a CD rom but it's not user friendly so I'm told.
    And there not on Internet yet but:
    
    You will find what you are looking for on page 107 of the
    Commons Debate Index of 1969 to 1970. This page contains
    all article references on "Draft Dodgers & Deserters from 
    the U.S" & what books, reviews, & videos exist on the subject.
    
    I'll have the index page in hand this evening. Leave me a fax
    # & I'll send it to you. Once you get it, read it over
    to decide what you require & contact:
    
          The Library of Parliament Hansard Index Reference Service 
          at this #:  613-992-8976. Tell them what articles you want
          & they will send you photocopies of what they have or
          a reference as to where to find other stuff. 
    
    
                                         & Have a good essay, 
    
                                             Regards J.P.
    
                                          

    
    
    
        Sorry about note 881.7 I accidently blew it away. I was talking
        about the fact that a Hansard Debate CD rom was available but
        not user friendly & The Library Of Parliament will be implementing
        a service on the Internet assuming they don't slash it in the next
        budget.
    
        You were asking if reading the country under Trudeau would help
        you. It won't directly help you with your essay but will definitely
        add strenght to it should you harbor the need explain certain
        Liberal policies of the time. Not much is mentioned on Defence,
        There maybe a few references to the Vietnam war. But what
        pre-occupies the country in the late sixties & seventies is
        all there.
         
        The reason I suggested Christina McCall-Newman's "Grits"(pseudo
        name for the Liberal Party members) is because she captures the spirit
        of the time. It is written with accute objectivity in mind.
        It's a book that is excellent backround reading when one attempts
        to write any essay on Canada.
     
                                                    Regards J.P.
     
         

    Hey J.P.,
    
    I wasn't able to find the book "GRITS" in the bookstore lastnight.  I will
    try some others during the weekend.  If you have the index, please fax
    it to me at DTN 631-7086.  Your help is appreciated.
    
    Yes, you are right about the reading regarding Trudeau.  I just finish
    a brief article about him and his impact on Canada published by Maclean in
    November 93.  It records the October crisis in the 1970 and how
    Trudeau handled it.  It talks a bit of Trudeau's influence in the
    Liberal Govenment and that was it.  I am not interested in politic that
    much but Trudeau seems to be a very interesting politican.
    
    Justina

    
    
     Yes Trudeau  certainly struck many a music chord within people. He never
     left anyone indifferent, you either liked him or hated him, but at
     least he had guts unlike the grand, imperial, mediocre sultan that came
     afte him.
    
     There's another more recent book on Trudeau called "Trudeau & our
     times" which is also very well written. You would probably find
     this one more available since it is more recent & his along the
     same lines as "Grits" but more concentrated on Trudeau. 
     "Grits" you probably have to order but I'm sure it's still in print.
    
    
                                             Regards J.P.
    
         

    This conference looked to have everything going for it. 
    Unfortunately I can't understand one iota of it! Can all correspondents 
    please rewrite the doggerel that they have smeared across my VT340!
    
    By the way, I like Canada. Went to Cape Breton Island & rest of N.S.
    last October. Anyone been to the Split Crow, Halifax?
    
    V.

    
    Is this another one of those NAFTA requirements?
    
    Of course you know that this notes conference is a key Canadian cultural
    industry, and exempt from being made understandable to those south of 
    the Wal Mart line. 
    
    Of course you could just *buy* it, or launch a deep-discount notes file
    that wipes us out, but *translate* it?  Non, monsieur.
    
    
    
    

    Translation:
    
    There are a number of running gags going on here of various levels of
    actual funnyness, since an "unusual" sense of humour is a valued
    Canadian trait we embrace the chaos this creates. If you don't get it
    don't worry, don't get offended and don't run away, it'll grow on you. 
    
    

    
    I had a guitar teacher who was a draft dodger. Nice guy, but he
    smoked alot of stuff and drank wine. Then he stole a friends guitar
    and ran away in 1978 never to be seen again.

    After re-insulating and re-caulking, we don't have anymore drafts.
    
    But late in the evening at the local bar...there's plenty to dodge.
    
    
    
    
    Didn't Wyatt Earp rid a town or city in Kansas of them all?

    This troubles me.

    
    Talk about going off half-chaulked.

    re: .8
    
    Thanks J.P. for the index.  I phoned the library according to your
    instruction but they don't provide the actual articles .  I will have
    to go to some universities' library to locate the actual articles. 
    
    However, by look at the commons debates index, I got some hints that
    there were some social problem happened to the draft dodgers.  Say for
    example, robbery, jobs ... etc.
    
    Beside, I am trying to relate the economic boom in the late 60's- 
    early 70's and the baby boom whether the draft dodgers had any
    contribution to these or not.  Statistic shows there were 175,000
    Americans immigrants to Canada between 1965 to 1974 and estimate 
    50,000 to 125,000 were the draft dodgers.  Many also came here 
    because of the segregation in the America society.  Now that I have
    some hints, I can start my research on this.
    
    

    
    Hey JC, The "Library of Parliament" should be able to at least photocopy
    those "Hansard(Parliamentry Debates)" articles & fax them to you.
    
    You would at least get the MP's response to the problems the "dodgers"
    would have caused. If you look at the index, some of the articles are
    a few pages long which leads to presume that the issues were discussed
    beyond the scope of generalities. So you would at least get the impact
    they caused to the MP's constituents.
    
    The sources of these articles(i.e. The CBC article) yes, will have to be
    track down at the source, but the "Parliamentry Debates" should be
    obtainable. I would most certainly phone them back & ask for the
    "Hansard" debates.  
    
    
                                                    Hope this Helps...
    
                                                       Regards J.P.